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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1294781 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #285 on: October 27, 2007, 06:41:50 AM »
user:
Freenrg4me
was now banned.

I let his last posting stand here, so everybody knows why he is banned
now.


@Amigo,
maybe you still can try it again at 21 Mhz,
but I guess you will not see any radioactivity again there...

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #286 on: October 27, 2007, 06:50:06 AM »


I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.




That would mean 0.4 milliAmps going through the LED
or
from the output of the oscillator circuit into ferrite transformer ?

I guess from your visual output it could be 0.4 milliamps through the LED,
as your LED seems to be not very bright and these modern LEDs
already put out such brightness as these current levels...

Offline amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #287 on: October 27, 2007, 08:55:04 AM »
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...

Offline DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #288 on: October 27, 2007, 03:37:29 PM »
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...

Great Work!

You are to my knowledge the first person to make a public announcement of a great job in close replication of the basic circuit.

If I might, I would like to offer you some points that may help in moving forward;

1) Have you read on my web page the problem with the direction of the coil winds, both must match, one can not be clockwise and the other counterclockwise. Some strange and undesired things happen if this is not correct.

2) Do no connect any external mass to any of the circuit. When you add metallic mass to increase LED brightness you are moving into a totally different theory of operation and will be limited by capacitive coupling to the environment, back into the equipment. Your current circuit is close to the floating light shown at the top of my web page.

3) You most likely are not seeing the HV because you are not at the correct resonance. This is way a good function gen. comes in handy to find the correct frequency. I have found as many as three frequencies where the LEDS were (to the eye) the same brightness. I have shown on my web page one of many methods that could be used to improve on the eyes response. If this is your case then you would find the correct frequency by first finding the beat ones (noting them) and then with the Neon attached move through these spots to find the correct one.

4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.

You do need the ability to tune the signal source, I have tried IC's and they do not offer the flexibility to trade off the complexity. A good old LC oscillator with a tunable coil works best.

5) The circuit will 'HUNT' the problem is to be sure it is not caused by your oscillator shifting from thermal changes in the components. But when a search coil is used to explore a working coil you will see a wide bandwidth of frequencies.

6) The more LEDS you add in series the higher the voltage will rise in the coil, don't hold back, start adding and retuning, when its right you will well know.

Continued good luck and coming advances.....

Offline DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #289 on: October 27, 2007, 04:00:21 PM »
@amigo

Short note, I forgot to thank you for doing the radiation test. Peers have asked for this but my Beta counter would not work here.

Looked at the video, why not put it up on YouTube?

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #290 on: October 27, 2007, 06:22:54 PM »
Hi Ron and Amigo,
thanks for all the new infos.

I really must get such a core and see myself these extreme
resonances.
Also my function generator goes only with the trick to about 3  Mhz,
so it is not good enough for these things.

I also had an old ferrite core, with some coils handwrapped around it already
from former experiments, but there the output of the LEDs still
was lower...

So I guess we really need special core with the Litz wire
and the exact same setup as Ron has to get these very high Q resonances
and extract the power this way.

It still puzzles me, how Ron can extract this free energy with just a ground
wire.

Where is the excitationcoming in then from?

I have read an article a while ago, which stated, that some
LEDs or diodes have some kind of negative resistance
region inside the current flowing direction and thus
can oscillate in the conduction direction.
It was not a tunneddiode or something like this,
it was a special sort of LEDs when I remember correctly..

So Ron,could you please try this grounded wire
experiment with some other LEDs and also with
some other core ?
Will this also work ?

We have to see exactly how only with a ground wire
we can generate this power without any batteries...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline terry1094

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #291 on: October 27, 2007, 09:35:55 PM »
@stefan

Thanks !

That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...

Hi, Amigo,

Can you tell us how many windings you have on your primary and secondary.

Thanks!

Terry

Offline amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #292 on: October 28, 2007, 12:44:29 AM »
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)

Offline DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #293 on: October 28, 2007, 01:34:12 AM »
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)

@amigo

I have often been called on the carpet because of as some say (Rude, Curt etc.,) but often you just need to cut to the chase. It is a shame everyone does not have a lab full of equipment, it sure does make a difference. I can not really help on the generator as what I was making reference to is an oscillator that is built to match your required frequency for your coil(s),as currently seen at the bottom of my web page. The oscillator is a Colpitts driving a MOSFET. The values of C and L are selected for the desired frequency which must be known. The coil has a ferrite core which allows maybe 1MHz of tuning which is not enough to be used for finding the resonant points.

You will see on my page where I built a cheap and dirty circuit on a bit of cardboard, this shows that when it is working a proto-board is not even needed. I would think something very simple has changed in your porting to the bigger board.

The reason I insist on starting here is that to move on, one must be able to understand the little strange things that can make it work or not. The ground only circuit is a highly tuned set of coils that are matched to each other. I show a similar example in the section of my page where I explain the winding sense problem. Consider I have been working on this for over 7 years, so it is not something I can just write about and you can do it. I have that feel and understanding and you and all that move forward will need to gain the same insight. This is a case of crawling before you walk.

Maybe I need to look back and see just how hard it was to get here, also your coils may not work. I really can not offer much more.

Offline amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #294 on: October 28, 2007, 02:13:43 AM »
@RStiffler

Please forgive us, I feel most of us are just anxious to jump right into it instead of taking small baby steps towards the final goal of walking upright. :o

Some people do not have scopes and function generators, others might not even have DMMs. In this case this is quite an impediment and is a show stopper, but we can only do with what we have available to each of us. I believe it's important to keep working and trying, if we give up or never try then the battle is already lost. :)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #295 on: October 28, 2007, 02:42:19 AM »
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
milliwatts of power for free !
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Many thanks in advance..
Regards, Stefan.

Offline amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #296 on: October 28, 2007, 04:17:50 AM »
I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #297 on: October 28, 2007, 04:59:01 AM »
@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill

Offline DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #298 on: October 28, 2007, 07:51:43 PM »
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
milliwatts of power for free !
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Many thanks in advance..
Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan

The reason I put these circuits out to the public, was to ask for help in duplication so that the answers can be found. These devices are not off the shelf and are FAR from being able to be manufactured and heal the world. I was under the impression that Overunity had a group that were willing to experiment and build circuits in an effort to reach something productive?

If this is not the case then of course these devices do not need to be discussed here. There is NO hard fast rules or MASTER parts list to build from that gives the Holy Grail device. Experimentation is required in order for others to see if they arrive at the same place that I have. I have disclosed and am continuing to disclose all information I have on my web site.

You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.

I also disagree that just any old coil will do this. You may get a LED or two to light, but see the top of my web page where I show 40+ LEDS from a single wire coil.

I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)

@amigo
You are 100% correct in your understanding.

@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill

@Pirate88179
What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #299 on: October 28, 2007, 07:54:04 PM »
Hi Bill,
I still needed power input from my signal generator,
but as I could only go up to 3 Mhz, this resonant point there
was not yet the best one.
Probably there will be a better one at around 10 to 20 Mhz,
where I would not have needed a ground wire to the metal mesh.

To get this frequency for a specific core, first you have to find
out the core-coil resonant frequency by different measurements
and then you can build for instance a quartz controlled divider
circuit , maybe also with a Phase Locked Loop circuit,
which exactly hits this resonance frequency.

But the best thing would be, if we all could design
bigger coil-core combinations, that could
just be excited with a ground wire only,
as Ron has shown it and which will
then selfoscillate at the right frequency
and produce free energy like Ron did.

But for this case you need a very high quality Q
LC circuit, which will selfoscillate at this frequency
just by the smallest ground currents..
Maybe Ron?s circuit was also excited by the local
radio stations, so the coil-core combination was
just receiving a bit RF power from the radiostation
or a nearby mobile phone transmitter and amplified this then
and did ring at its own resonance frequency...

I hope Ron can find this out and also try it outside his town, where no radio
stations are located.
We really have to see, what the ground wire is inducing into the
circuit, so it will oscillate and light the LEDs up.