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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1213157 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2790 on: November 26, 2009, 05:57:23 AM »
Here is how you can make cheaply yourself a few supercaps:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8360.0

They light read and yellow LEDs very nicely for a long time,
if you make them BIG !
;)

Regards, Stefan.

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Offline poynt99

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2791 on: November 26, 2009, 05:58:45 AM »
Might provide some insight:

From Patent 4825147: Capacitance measuring method and apparatus


The prior art methods of measuring the capacitance of large capacitors having an appreciable amount of ESR (equivalent series resistance) have been relatively time consuming, requiring several minutes for each measurement. Attempts to speed up such tests have introduced appreciable errors, primarily because of the ESR.

One such prior art method requires the measurement of the reactance of the capacitor while a signal having a predetermined frequency is applied to the capacitor. When the capacitance is high, the capacitive reactance is very low, usually less than one ohm, wherefor it is very difficult to make an accurate measurement of the reactance. Furthermore, even relatively low values of ESR make the accurate measurement of the capacitive reactance practically impossible.

In a second such method called the RC test, the capacitor under test is charged to a predetermined voltage level through a resistor having a known resistance. The time required to charge the capacitor to the predetermined level is measured and used to calculate the value of capacitance. Since the time required to charge the capacitor is proportional to the capacitance, it takes a long time to measure the capacitance of a large capacitor. This test can be speeded up by reducing the resistance of the series connected resistor through which the capacitor is charged, but as that resistance is lowered the effect of ESR increases and reduces the accuracy of the measurement.

Another commonly used method is known as the constant current test. When using this method the capacitor is connected across a constant current source and the time required to charge the capacitor between two different voltage levels is measured and used to calculate the capacitance. Where ESR is present and the capacitance is high, the time required to accurately measure the capacitance is necessarily long since the charging current must be kept relatively low to minimize the effect of ESR.

Recently a new type of capacitor having very high capacitance and very high ESR has become commercially available. Because of its construction it is known as the double layer capacitor. Testing these capacitors with known test methods has exacerbated the problems associated with time and accuracy. For example, when using the RC test to measure a capacitance of 100 μF., it takes 100 milliseconds to charge the capacitor to sixty-three percent of its full charge through a 1000 ohm resistor Using the same 1000 ohm series resistor to test a ten farad capacitor, it would take 166.6 minutes or 2.7 hours to make the same test. It would seem logical to reduce this time by lowering the resistance value. However, if the time is to be appreciably reduced in this manner a falsely low capacitance value will result where the capacitor has even a normal amount of ESR let alone the high values associated with the new double layer capacitors. Use of the constant current test provides even more erroneous measurements because increasing the charging current in order to decrease the time of the test magnifies the effect of ESR. As a consequence, use of the prior art methods of measuring capacitance requires long periods of time unless large error factors can be tolerated.

.99

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2792 on: November 26, 2009, 06:14:35 AM »
poynt99.
 
 In that article, it seems like they are assuming the cause is ESR, but I can't see that being the cause because these caps have extremely low ESR, not high, which is evident by the fact (according to the datasheet) that the short circuit current is 3500 amps!  2.7V / 3500A = 0.77 ohms, which is in agreement with the datasheet ESR. That would indicate the cap resistance remains relatively constant to current for a given temperature, no?

Looks like they're having the same issues in explaining these caps.  ;)

Paul
 

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2792 on: November 26, 2009, 06:14:35 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2793 on: November 26, 2009, 06:27:07 AM »

Offline poynt99

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2794 on: November 26, 2009, 06:29:19 AM »

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2794 on: November 26, 2009, 06:29:19 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2795 on: November 26, 2009, 06:35:38 AM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2796 on: November 26, 2009, 10:29:16 AM »
poynt99.
 
 In that article, it seems like they are assuming the cause is ESR, but I can't see that being the cause because these caps have extremely low ESR, not high, which is evident by the fact (according to the datasheet) that the short circuit current is 3500 amps!  2.7V / 3500A = 0.77 ohms, which is in agreement with the datasheet ESR. That would indicate the cap resistance remains relatively constant to current for a given temperature, no?

Looks like they're having the same issues in explaining these caps.  ;)

Paul

Hi Paul,

You may have noticed you happened to omit the word "milli" in your ESR calculation : it is 0.77 mOhm and not Ohm, ok?  (Dividing Volt by thousands of Ampers should give milliOhms.)

Gyula

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2796 on: November 26, 2009, 10:29:16 AM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2797 on: November 26, 2009, 05:01:54 PM »
Hi Paul,

You may have noticed you happened to omit the word "milli" in your ESR calculation : it is 0.77 mOhm and not Ohm, ok?

Indeed. Isn't it amazing these are only 0.77mOhm resistance! I'm not used to typing mOhm.  ;)

In a few minutes I'll post the new measurements.
 

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2798 on: November 26, 2009, 05:04:42 PM »
This morning I did 17 ultracap measurements. I'm still not going to say for certain if the results show excess energy, but the measurements seem to indicate that might be the case. For me it's way to early to say for certain. The data is found at my blog site, and I was going to copy & paste it here, but there are key areas of interest that are highlighted in red, and I'm not going to take the extra time to due such highlighting here,
 
 http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/
 
 Today's Thanksgiving for us, so there's a chance I'll have to wait till tomorrow to do more experiments.
 
 Regards,
 Paul
 

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2798 on: November 26, 2009, 05:04:42 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2799 on: November 26, 2009, 05:23:09 PM »
This morning I did 17 ultracap measurements. I'm still not going to say for certain if the results show excess energy, but the measurements seem to indicate that might be the case. For me it's way to early to say for certain. The data is found at my blog site, and I was going to copy & paste it here, but there are key areas of interest that are highlighted in red, and I'm not going to take the extra time to due such highlighting here,
 
 http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/
 
 Today's Thanksgiving for us, so there's a chance I'll have to wait till tomorrow to do more experiments.
 
 Regards,
 Paul

So this shows that charging should happen with low amperage and discharging with high?

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2800 on: November 26, 2009, 05:35:20 PM »
So this shows that charging should happen with low amperage and discharging with high?

The opposite. You want high charging current, and low discharge current. Interestingly enough that's what gadget & all are doing.

The reason being is that the data *suggests* the capacitance is lower under higher current. Less capacitance equates to less energy to charge the capacitance-- E = 1/2 C V^2

Regards,
Paul

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2800 on: November 26, 2009, 05:35:20 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2801 on: November 26, 2009, 07:10:22 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the JT gave high boltage spikes at low amperage, and then the bcap was discharged at low voltage at high amperage.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2802 on: November 26, 2009, 07:32:58 PM »
I was referring to gadgets JT circuit. He's been talking about high current spikes, right? I seem to recall that he was talking about how his circuit destroys batteries. He would be the person to ask about that.

As far as rapid bcap discharging, weren't they just playing around to see how much power it has by making the wires glow, etc.? They probably were not measuring the total energy output from discharging the bcap. It seems obvious the lower the current the more energy they'll get from discharging the bcap. Maybe I'm wrong because so far I have not done any discharge measurements, yet.

Paul

Offline innovation_station

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2803 on: November 26, 2009, 09:06:18 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the JT gave high boltage spikes at low amperage, and then the bcap was discharged at low voltage at high amperage.

im going to say you both are correct

here is why ...  you have 2 hands..

w

Offline sparks

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #2804 on: November 27, 2009, 04:33:34 AM »
   Tesla is credited with developing the coherer.  Before his work with resonance radio transmission basically was using the capacitance of the antennae charged up to as high a voltage as they could muster between capacitor plate a the antennae and capacitor plate b earth.  This capacitor was then shorted out to ground through a spark gap.  This produced a wild ass oscillation of current which was ok for wireless telegraphy since that was pretty much digital transmission of information.  Then the problem of multiple users came into play and things started slowing down while different users waited for transmissions to cease before doing there thing.  Tesla used the resonance of  his tank circuits to make sure the timing of the disruptive discharge occurred only when the voltage in the tank was low enough relative to the supply transformer capacitor network voltage state.  This allowed for a very coherent wave field and the advent of tuned receivers channels amplitude modulation etc.  He liked resonance and I believe the Wardenclyffe tower was going to be a tuned resonant circuit where he was going to alternately charge and discharge the big ground he had  using it as one plate of a capacitor and the other plate was going to be the Earth itself.  This would capacitively couple the big tank circuit he had pulsing with the Earth.  Changing polarity at some frequency and the Earth alternately causing current to flow inwards towards the tower then outwards.  His dielectric was the air and the pitchblende they were painted with down in the tunnels.  The air surrounding the tower top was the third plate in this capacitor scheme.'
  The resonance was initiated between the air capacitor plate and the buried insulated metal plate.  The inductor in the middle.  The tank would be maintained and damped as little as possible so that the currents and potentials would build up in the resonator from the supply input. 

 

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