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Author Topic: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.  (Read 150509 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2007, 10:05:52 AM »
Honk,

Maybe you should use an air coil instead of one with iron core. The magnetic flux from all the stator magnets closest to the iron core, will be "busy" with closing a magnetic loop via the iron core in the coil. The same will happen with the magnetic lines in the next stator magnets to come. This will in turn weaken the attractive force between the stator and the rotor magnets, and you will at the end not get the desied acceleration of the rotor to pass the sticky spot - which hopefully will be dealt with by the air coil. With an air core you unfortunatly must have more electric current to make the same magnetic flux, but hopefully the more spread magnetic flux in the air coil, will cover a bigger area, helping the rotor magnet to pass the sticky spot.

Should this be something to consider?

Br.

Vidar

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Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2007, 10:31:54 AM »
No, I dont think an electro magnet with an aircore will provide enough flux.
The purpose of the core material is to amplify the induced flux from the copper wire and the
permeability of the core material determines how much flux will be created by the applied current.
Using an air core you will get a flux strength approx 500000 times weaker than using a Supermalloy core.
And another bad thing with an air core is that only the flux created at the coil opening facing the rotor magnet can be useful.
Nothing of the flux created in the rest of the air coil will affect the rotor, simply because there is no metallic core to to conduct
the flux towards the rotor magnet. Air is just the worst case material possible to conduct magnetic flux.

Yes, some of the flux from the closest stator magnets will leak into the electro magnet core and this will shift
the BH curve working point, but I still believe the gain in using a solid core of good magnetic properties is the way to go.

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2007, 01:39:46 PM »
And another bad thing with an air core is that only the flux created at the coil opening facing the rotor magnet can be useful.

This is a good concept I think.

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=368&highlight=#368

Your flux booster rotor can be combined with this design.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2007, 01:39:46 PM »
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Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2007, 12:38:37 AM »
It's my pleasure to tell you guys that I have completed all the cad drawings of the F.B.D.I.S.S.M
The next step is to check when my laser friend have the time to cut the material.
There's a lot of parts to be cut due to the stacked build-up of metall plates.
I will also place several price quotes on the custom made magnets during this week.
Once the motor is assembled I will order the magnets and finish the final motor.

Meanwhile I'll focus on the Flip-Field Flux-Booster Controller.
I estimate to have it built and tested well before the motor is completed.

One of my suppliers have reported that he can get Supermalloy from USA but
it's expensive. He will see if he can get it somewhat cheaper from China.

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2007, 08:04:54 AM »
Honk, you don?t use both poles of your magnets, so you are wasting 1/2 of the possible power.
Just redesign it to use both magnet poles!
Just use "U" shaped rotor and stator magnets or just use bar magnets with a core, so they are "U" shaped all in all !

Good luck !
Regards, Stefan.

I don't follow exactly how you mean I should do this?
Designing a dual motor using horseshoe electromagnets that are bent into a the pancake motor would be
a simple task to the design your are suggesting, I think.
Perhaps you could explain the "U" shaped rotor more thoroughly?

Considering this will be my first prototype I don't think I want to make it to complicated to build.
But if the design you suggest is easy to insert in the existing design I might consider your proposal.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2007, 08:04:54 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2007, 08:10:45 AM »
Itis very easy, just use "horseshoe" magnets inside the rotor
and inside the stators,leave everything else like it is.
This way you get double the mechanical output power, cause
both poles attract !

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2007, 10:03:36 AM »
OK, that sounds good, but for now I'll stick to the original design just because I don't
have the power to remake the motor again at this time. Today I sent the cad files to my
old laser friend to hear what he has to say about them.

If the motor works out good (OU capable) I'll consider the design you suggested.

Thank you / Honk

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2007, 10:03:36 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2007, 08:37:34 PM »
In the original design, there is only one gate right?

What about using several gates in a series, and of course use equal amount of coils - placed in the same place as in the original version - "behind" each magnet? And what about using several single magnets, let's say 6 magnets in one revolution with one electromagnet each - maybe a coil wrapped directly around each magnet? With neo-magnets I think the coil wouldn't destroy the magnetism below a certain limit.
I cannot see that this idea shouldn't work if the original design works. The original design is nothing more than a slow way to approach the opposite pole in the stator! The torque in such design is extremely limited due to the weak angle these magnets are set up with.
Do you agree Honk?

Br.

Vidar

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2007, 08:50:36 PM »
I don't follow you.
What is this "gate" your'e talking about?
Could you perhaps explain more thoroughly or perhaps post a drawing?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2007, 08:50:36 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2007, 09:06:41 PM »
Here is a bad drawing from paint- I have left the rotormagnets out:

The "gate" is where the rotormagnet leaves the statormagnets end of the track.


Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2007, 11:49:18 PM »
OK, I see what you mean.

In the original design, there is only one gate right?
Wrong, there is two so called gates, being the two electro magnets faced equally apart on the opposite sides of the mtor

maybe a coil wrapped directly around each magnet?
Using a magnet as electro magnet core will not provide powerful flux.
The permeability of a magnet is very low, almost like air.

I cannot see that this idea shouldn't work if the original design works.
The original design is nothing more than a slow way to approach the opposite pole in the stator!
The torque in such design is extremely limited due to the weak angle these magnets are set up with.
Do you agree Honk?
No, I don't agree. The angular force in a split spiral motor is not weak. It is really good actually.
The torque in the original split spiral design is calculated to be approx 40 to 52 ft-lbs. That's not very weak or limited.
You forget that you need the rotor need to build up momentum over distance to harvest the free energy.
If you fill the motor with to many poles you will get past a point where the Wankel will get more similar to an
ordinary electric motor. I believe the split spiral is the best design choice of the Magnetic Wankel motor.
The best way to enhance efficiency (COP) of this type of motor is to build a dual pancake motor using horse shoe
electro magnets. That way you can use the same two electro magnets to control two motors, thus doubling the COP.

Sorry for being so negative on your design comment.  :-\
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 09:13:29 PM by Honk »

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2007, 11:49:18 PM »
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Offline ecc

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2007, 08:54:45 AM »
Directions of Magnetization

The HK manufacturer Magtech has a page showing Directions of Magnetization of their products.

http://www.magtech.com.hk/index_product.htm.

Other pages there  give technical specs for different mag types.

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2007, 12:08:21 PM »
Here it is.
The complete Autocad drawings and Mounting instructions on the F.B.D.I.S.S.M.
Anyone can get the parts manufactured by a laser or waterjet cutter company.

Please download and continue to spread the files among interested users.
I want to keep the motor totaly Open Source.

Also keep an eye on my posted Zipped Drawing Pack v1.0, now and then.
I will update the Zip file if any errors or improvements is discovered.

/Honk

V1.0  Original release
V1.01 Pdf and Gif file added showing the entire motor from above view.
V1.02 All drawings was made in scale 1:1 and this is now stated in every file.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 03:06:15 PM by Honk »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2007, 02:05:45 PM »
Hi Honk,
very well done,
just make a "2 floors"model,
where in the upper floor you have all magnet poles reversed,
so you can couple floor 1 and floor 2 with some iron core pieces,
so you use both magnet poles and have double the torque.
Hope it gets clear this way.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2007, 03:20:57 PM »
Thank you for your input.
I have planned to build dual pancake motor like you suggestion if the current model is successful.
On tuesday a salesman is coming to my office to give me a price quote on Supermalloy for the electro magnets.
He's got chinese connections and I hope this will lower the otherwise expensive price.

 

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