Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83907
  • *Latest: Vi

  • *Total Posts: 524044
  • *Total Topics: 15602
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 12
  • *Total: 13

Author Topic: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.  (Read 150508 times)

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 09:28:40 AM »
Great, thanks Honk, I wanted to model a motor at the weekend, but house things got in the way, Like you, I just bought a house, They tend to need a lot doing to them ( if it's an old one like mine)!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 12:37:39 PM »
Great. Congratulations on your new old house.
Now we really need some free energy devices to help us cut down on heating bills.
I look forward to the result of your FEMM simulations.
If you want me to add any features to the files, perhaps the steel attachments for the rotor magnets,
then I'll post new files according to your wishes.

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2007, 11:40:05 PM »
Here it is. The continued development of the Dual Induction Split Spiral Motor.

Electro magnets added.
Steel magnet-holder added.
Please download the attached zip file containing PDF:s and DXF:s for examintion.

The rotor block holding the magnets securely in place will be ready in the next development phase.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 06:54:49 AM by Honk »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2007, 11:40:05 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2007, 08:49:12 AM »
Hi Honk, the motor design looks great. One thought, the electromagnets as shown, use only the flux from one end, the flux generated at the other end ( facing outwards)is not used, An electromagnet in somekind of horseshoe arrangement would have both the poles from the electromagnet firing at the rotor.

Also the Femm file

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2007, 08:52:13 AM »
File attached

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2007, 08:52:13 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2007, 09:05:30 AM »
An electromagnet in somekind of horseshoe arrangement would have both the poles from the electromagnet firing at the rotor.

Using a horse shoe electromagnet wouldn't work any good in this design.
The rotor magnets does not change polarity. They are all facing the same direction, e.g in attraction mode towards the stator.
If I would use a horse shoe electro magnet it would apply both north and south polarity when activated, thus attracting and repelling
the rotor at the same time. The single rod electro magnet allows me to attract the rotor magnet into the electro magnet area.
Ones in place I flip polarity and repel the rotor magnet into the next loop. This can't be done so easily if using a horse shoe magnet.

Could you please post the Entry Femm to? Thanks in advance.

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 09:15:19 AM »
both files attached.

Yes I see what you mean. you would have to have two rows of rotor magnets and stator magnets, one on top of each other in reversed polarity in order to use the horse shoe idea.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 09:15:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2007, 09:36:37 AM »
Yes, thats right. I have thought of that idea to but it feels to difficult to build as a prototype.
Perhaps I'll try the dual pancake motor horse shoe idea if the prototype motor works out good.

You told me you got 50.85Nm in the spiral entry position simulation using N37 neos. That equals to 37.5 ft-lbs.
Today I recalculated the force at grade N37 using my own formula and I got 42,7 ft-lbs. I was surprised how
close my calculation was to the Femm simulation. There is only a 12% difference between torque values.

I feel this shows I'm on the right track.
Later when I have added all features, like the final shape, both electro magnets and back iron, you could
perform another simulation to see if more of the flux lines go were we want them to, e.g between the rotor and stator magnets.
I guess adding back iron will focus the flux lines the most possible.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 08:28:44 AM by Honk »

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2007, 11:30:37 AM »
Yes, Honk,  In real motor the flux of the stator magnets will loop under and over the stator magnets, which it can't do in the simulation because of the closeness of the stator mags to each other, this is reducing the effectiveness of the mags in the middle of the stator ramps. So probably the torque will be higher than in the sim. That seems to fit with your calculation.

The dual pancake thhing would be very difficult to build..... but maybe more efficient, Would it be twice as efficient? because the electromag would only need the same electrical power as in your original design, but there would be twice as much torque because of the stacked stators and rotors. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2007, 11:30:37 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2007, 12:18:35 PM »
Would it be twice as efficient? because the electromag would only need the same electrical power as in your original design,
but there would be twice as much torque because of the stacked stators and rotors. 

I believe there are other forces that determine the amount of electro magnet power needed, while running the motor.
When the rotor magnet is approaching the electro magnet it will induce an electrical current in the coil that will have
to be fighted by the input current. The faster the spin, the more powerful induced current, thus requiring more
power to overcome the sticky spot. This is why Pauls E.m.i.l.i.e needs current pulses of 1000W while running.
My only hope to reduce input current, is the Flux Booster controller, that greatly reduces the power needed
to operate a high inductance coil at high speeds with very sharp flanks.
The Booster initialization of the electro magnetic flux field will be square instead of the regular slow rise time.
Ones initialized it only takes static current to maintain the strong field. When turned of the Back EMF is recovered for next cycle.
I will also redesign the controller to handle Magnetic Flip Field. Meaning immediate change between north and south polarization.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 08:50:33 AM by Honk »

Offline Paul-R

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1926
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2007, 04:55:10 PM »
An electromagnet in somekind of horseshoe arrangement would have both the poles from the electromagnet firing at the rotor.
Using a horse shoe electromagnet wouldn't work any good in this design.
The rotor magnets does not change polarity.....
Yes. but supposing you had two stators and two rotors on one shaft, one stator with N facing in and the other stator with S facing in. And the electromagnets would bridge between the two.

Don't forget that the benefit, the OU, will include the back emf reclaimed when the electromagnets switch off, and so, you will need a pair of capacitors and a bridge rectifier and a battery to capture this lot.

Otherwise, you could have the BEMF on one revolution being used to do the job on the next revolution.

Not very clearly explained, I fear.

Paul-R

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2007, 04:55:10 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2007, 05:16:57 PM »
 Paul-R,

Yes, it's a good idea, We'd already discussed this idea earlier , but probably not very well explained!  pancakes and whatnot! I think this is a good idea as then the flux lines would have a much more closed path, and the force available at the pole of the electromagnet facing outward would not be lost, as it is at the moment. At any rate, it would be very difficult to build.

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2007, 07:01:42 PM »
The main problem of a horse shoe electromagnet is forming the steel laminets into the right angle and size.
Paul is just using a single rod electromagnet of Supermalloy and that is doing just fine.
Supermalloy is the prefered material to use but very expensive and very hard to get hold of.
Using plain Oriented Silicon steel with an outer tip of Non Oriented silicon steel should do the job as well.

Oriented Silicon steel produces a lot more magnetism per amp than regular Non Oriented silicon steel.
But it's not a good idea of having Oriented Silicon steel facing the moving Neo magnets.
Oriented Silicon steel requires non moving fields accros the surface to avoid losses. Like a transformer.
This is why Oriented Silicon steel is never used in motors. But if the steel area facing the Neo magnets
is made of Non Oriented silicon steel and the core inside of the winding is Oriented Silicon steel then
we have the best combination of two cheap materials. The core produces lots of magnetism and the
outer tip of Non Oriented silicon steel transfer the magnetism towards the moving rotor magnets.

The steel laminates I'm going to use for the rod magnet will be precision laser cut to fit perfectly.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 08:30:56 AM by Honk »

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2007, 10:17:50 AM »
Otherwise, you could have the BEMF on one revolution being used to do the job on the next revolution.
Paul-R

The Back EMF will simply not be enough to run the coil.
You are right that there is Back EMF to be captured but this is no way near the power needed to keep
the magnetic field constant in the electro magnet while the rotor magnet passes by.
Lot's of energy going into an electro magnet is converted into heat.
The perfect coil don't have any resistance but in real life there is ohms law to be included.
There is also steel losses that is converted into heat as well. I guess I'll be happy if the recovered Back EMF power
covers 10-25% of the total energy needed to run the coil in this type of motor.

Offline Paul-R

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1926
Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2007, 04:09:55 PM »
Otherwise, you could have the BEMF on one revolution being used to do the job on the next revolution.
Paul-R

The Back EMF will simply not be enough to run the coil.
You are right that there is Back EMF to be captured
If the switching is sharp, the BEMF can be very high indeed. It is an important ingredient in the energy equations:
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scdiroff/lds/ElectricityMagnetism/BackEMF/BackEMF.html
As I understand it, it depends how sharp the voltage is taken off the coil - how vertical, or near vertical the vltage drop is.

 

OneLink