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Author Topic: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.  (Read 150772 times)

Offline Honk

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F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« on: October 11, 2007, 08:30:42 PM »
Hi folks.

F.B.D.I.S.S.M = Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2773.msg54028.html#msg54028
I'll continue to post my progress here on a F.B.D.I.S.S.M and it will be open sourced to be used by anyone.
I hope to have the blueprint and cad files ready within a month or two.
Using the Flux Booster technology I hope to be able to run the Electro Magnets at almost static current.
This feature will slash the current needs of the motor and enables more of the generator output to be used for work.

I guess I'll continue to develop a small and cheaper 3000W version just to see what the output is vs the calculations.

As I told earlier I will develop a small motor capable of an output of 2-3KW on paper just to see the end result.
Ones I have the numbers I can correct my power output formula and develop a bigger scale F.B.D.I.S.S.M.
I did some early calculations on 20cm diameter motor using smaller N45 magnets and I got an output of 2.25KW = 3Hp.
The next couple of days I'll calculate and continue to optimize the magnet angle to increase the attraction efficiency.
So far I have reached 34,33 ft-lbs but I believe I might be able to reach 36-38 ft-lbs.

The motor specs:
Diameter  = 20cm,  7,87"
Height      = 10cm,  3,94"
RPM unknown until built and tested
4 Pie Shaped Rotor heads
Dual Flux-Boosted Electro-Magnetic Induction
Dual Split Spiral built by 2 x 77pcs of  80x30x4mm N45, magnetized through 30mm.

I hope to be able to post an early design picture for inspection soon, perhaps in the weekend.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 01:25:04 AM by Honk »

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Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 11:44:49 PM »
Here it is. The blueprint. Download the pdf for a closer look.

I increased the thickness of the rotor magnets to 3cm and the stator magnets to 2.5cm.
This will give about 20% more power according to calculations.
The external size will be 32cm. It's the diameter of the rotor that's 20cm wide. Sorry for that.

rotorhead

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 05:54:23 AM »
If you split the stator segments into 3 segments instead of 2, you will not have 2 rotor arm magnets going through the sticky spot at the same time. 3 rotor magnets will be providing rotational forces each time 1 gets to the rough place.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 05:54:23 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 09:14:21 AM »
If you split the stator segments into 3 segments instead of 2, you will not have 2 rotor arm magnets going through the sticky spot at the same time. 3 rotor magnets will be providing rotational forces each time 1 gets to the rough place.

Good point. This is an open source development and I'm happy to receive all solution concepts.

lt's possible to design it like that but there will be less travel distance to gain momentum. Perhaps this will decrease performance.
The more the electro magnets, the more it's starts to look like an ordinary pulse motor. But three spirals might be a good middle way.
But the spiral attraction will be even greater in a shorter path. The motor might gain more power from this.
The electronics (Flux Booster) will be lot more complicated because of three phases instead of just one.
I will probably calculate the thrust force to see the outcome. If any good I'll have to rename the motor to F.B.T.I.S.S.M.
Flux.Boosted.Triple.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 03:33:05 PM »
I have calculated the Flux.Boosted.Triple.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor. (F.B.T.I.S.S.M)

The best spriral angle produces 235,68lb of thrust. This equals to 78,56 ft-lbs.
As usual I divide this value by two to give me some headrome and a more resonable output.
78,56 ft-lbs / 2 = 39,28 ft-lbs
HP at 500 RPM = (39,28*2*3,14*500)/33000 = 3,73Hp = 2788 watt

I only calculated the 3 free spining rotor magnets in this equation.
In the real motor, the torque from the rotor head attracted by the electro magnet should be added to the output.
There is only one electro magnet working at each time. If we estimate the average power consumption of the magnets to 100W
we can add some of this to the shaft output. The output of 2788W might increase by another 25-50W.

I haven't decided yet on what type of motor I will build. More investigations are needed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 03:33:05 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2007, 03:43:21 PM »
The original Dual Split Spiral motor seems a little bit more powerful on paper.
I used the same magnets size and got 255,5lb thrust.
This equals to 85,16 ft-lbs. Divided by two I get 42,58 ft-lbs.

HP at 500 RPM = (42,58*2*3,14*500)/33000 = 4,05Hp = 3022 watt

And the Dual Split Spiral motor and it's Booster controller is a lot easier to build.
I have to make a design decision during this weekend.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 04:03:07 PM »
If you split the stator segments into 3 segments instead of 2, you will not have 2 rotor arm magnets going through the sticky spot at the same time. 3 rotor magnets will be providing rotational forces each time 1 gets to the rough place....
...but you will get back the problem of hefty out of balance forces.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 04:03:07 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 04:24:30 PM »
You are right, I didn't think of that. Thanks.

Offline wattsup

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 05:48:22 PM »
@Honk

I am always interested in what you're up to. Hope your work with Jack is moving along.

What if the stator being in two parts was split 55% one half and 45% the other half.
This would eliminate the two stickies at the same time, without having to sacrifice too much on momentum. So one side would be  198 degrees and the other 162 degrees.
It's better than having three at 120 degress each.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 05:48:22 PM »
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Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 07:00:54 PM »
I believe it's more difficult to balance the rotor in that configuration.

Anyway, the benefit of having the electromagnets placed equally apart, is that it really simplifies
the electronic controll. Just parallel connect the coils and hook up the wires to the Flux Booster controller.
The reflective reading forks will be mounted to see when the rotor gets in position.
When one of the rotor heads are in position, then the other one is in the equal position as well.
Then fire the Pull pulse and rise the magnet field within 200uS to attract the rotor magnet into the electro magnet area.
When getting attracted away from the last of the stator magnets, no breaking occurs and no momentum is lost.
Once in place, reverse the field of the electro magnet within 200uS and Push the rotor into next rotation cycle.
Turn of the current when the rotor is out of the electro magnet area.
In all of the Pull and Push modes of the coil, the back emf is recovered and saved to the next phase.

Regarding Jacks motor, I'm still wating on the big test coils to arrive.
A local transformer factory was nice to help me wind the 3 coils with 520 turns on each core for free.
They forgot about it and I phoned to remind them. I got an email today that they will wind them today and that I could
expect them on monday. I hope so. I really need to test the new improved features of the Flux Booster controller.

I still believe in both Jack Magnet-Valve motor and the Dual Induction Split Spiral Motor. (And of course E.M.I.L.I.E)
If there is a path to over unity, there must be several ways to bridge it.
While I'm waiting for the outcome of Jacks testing I spend some time on the FBDISSM.
It seems like the FBDISSM is more expensive to build than Jacks valve motor due to more magnets but
the air gap distance is not so crusial inside a spiral motor and this will make it easier to build.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 02:01:01 PM by Honk »

Offline acp

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 07:30:58 PM »
Honk, could you just clarify what sizes of magnet you are proposing to use? From your drawing the stator magnets are 80mm deep? is that correct? And rotor magnets also 80mm deep?

I will have a go at modelling it in FEMM. See what torque values that gives.....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 07:30:58 PM »
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Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 10:24:14 PM »
The Rotor magnets:
Length (depth) = 3.149" (80mm)
Width             = 1.5"     (38.1mm)
Thickness       = 1.181" (30mm)

The Stator magnets:
Length (depth) = 3.149" (80mm)
Width             = 1.181" (30mm)
Thickness       = 0.157" (4mm)

Please see the autocad DWG attachment on the FBDISSM blueprint.
It might come in handy when you are going to modell the motor in FEMM.
Good luck. I'm curious of what force you get at the simulation.

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 11:03:36 PM »
Here is a 6 pole motor.
The electro magnets will fire 33% more often but the power output should increase more than the increased input.
Six poles could be good solution in order to increase the power density.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 12:18:07 AM by Honk »

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2007, 04:51:22 PM »
Hi there Acp.

I have converted the 6 pole FBDISSM motor to a couple of FEMM files to make it easy for you to simulate its torque.
The ZIP contain two FEMM files, both the loop entry position of the rotor magnets and the rotor end position.
All magnets are 80mm deep (length) and grade N45 (1.33T) but you have to set the grade yourself in the simulation.
These files have no magnetic parameters set.

Please make the FEMM simulation when you have some spare time and post the result here.
If you have the time it would be interesting to see the torque at different magnet grades, N35 (1.2T) and N52 (1.45T).

Offline Honk

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Re: F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 08:33:22 AM »
I did my regular rotor force calculation on the 6 pole motor during this weekend.
As I suspected the force went up a little more than 33%.

I got 343,6lb and when converted to ft-lbs I get 114,53 ft-lbs
I don't expect more output than maximum half of that torque = 114,53 / 2 = 57,265 ft-lbs
But the output is still very good using 6 rotor heads. The 500 RPM is just a potshot.

HP at 500 RPM = (57,265*2*3,14*500)/33000 = 5,45Hp = 4066 watt
The four pole was 4.05Hp. The 6 pole is 5,45Hp. That's a power density increasement of 34.6%.

The question is whether I will have all of this torque available when running the motor.
My force calculations is made at static mode and I guess it will change at full speed under load.
The other question mark it how much energy is required by the two electro magnets during full speed and load.

If someone here can handle FEMM I'd like you to download the files from above post and perform a force simulation.
You will have to set the magnetic properties yourself in the files. Please simulate all three grades N35, N45 and N52 if possible.
I have really tried FEMM myself but I find the interface totaly strange and I don't feel I have the time and energy to learn it.
But if we cooperate and help each other, the development phase will pass much faster and I can build a real prototype.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 03:09:19 PM by Honk »

 

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