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Author Topic: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile  (Read 50122 times)

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2007, 05:11:13 AM »
If he can't be contacted it would seem like a short case. You can just file a patent with the exact same device and if he doesn't object to it then you are free to do what you like basically.

For example Yull brown didn't invent browns gas but William A. Rhodes was to late with claiming ownership of the patent.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2007, 05:23:42 AM »
If he can't be contacted it would seem like a short case. You can just file a patent with the exact same device and if he doesn't object to it then you are free to do what you like basically.

For example Yull brown didn't invent browns gas but William A. Rhodes was to late with claiming ownership of the patent.

It does not work that way in the U.S..  One thing the USPTO examiners actually are good at is looking at other patents for prior art.  (They typically do no other prior art searches.)  If you had an exact same device, it would be found pretty quick, and the patent would be rejected unless you could provide a valid argument for why your device is different.

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2007, 05:38:00 AM »
the patent would be rejected unless you could provide a valid argument for why your device is different.

Just make it better. :)

It's fun to put the patent office in limbo where they get to say you don't get a patent for a perpetual motion device AND that the device is already patented.

Before you get it to work you have a lot of time to find him anyway. :D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2007, 05:38:00 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2007, 02:17:49 PM »
I have to repeat it once again, this isn't just any kind of a non-working device. This is outright non-scientific. Show me another instance of a patented device violating scientific principles. I'd really like to hear from the US Patent Office that they don't care whether a claim is scientific or not and that just prior art matters. That will be the day.

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2007, 07:30:47 PM »
I did a little digging.  Here is another magnet power generator patent (No. 6,362,718):

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-64KAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,362,718

I doubt this one works either.

And about the USPTO and PPMs:  The USPTO has had a longstanding policy that anyone seeking a patent for a perpetual motion device must have a working model.  This policy was put into place because many unscrupulous persons were using the guise of a patent as validation of their technology and were duping investors in this way.

For more info on this as well as more examples of PPMs/energy generators which have been granted patents refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

So Omnibus is partially right in that it is a concern that someone does not use a patent to claim his or her device is legitimate.  However, I hope it is clear now that it is not so much a concern of the USPTO that patents are only granted on workable ideas, because this is clearly not the case, as little effort is made to validate the feasibility of other types of inventions.

Omnibus, if you want the USPTO to be a certifying body, then all I can say is: write your Congressman.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2007, 07:30:47 PM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2007, 07:39:16 PM »
G'day omnibus,

You wanted another patent that violates scientific principles? Well here it is:

US Patent Nr. 709 5126       The patent was granted in 2006 and therefore is current.

In the opening paragraph it states:

?An external power source such as a battery is used to initially supply power to start an alternator and generator. Once the system has started it is not necessary for the battery to supply power to the system. The battery can then be disconnected. The alternator and electric motor work in combination to generator electrical power. The alternator supplies this electrical power to the two inverters. One inverter outputs part of its power to the lamp load device and part back to the electric motor/generator. This power is used to power the electric motor. The second inverter supplies power to the specific load devices that are connected to the system.?
   
This in no uncertain terms describes a perpetual motion device, something the patent office says it will not issue patents for. It also violates established scientific principles.

If you want the full patent you can download it here, it is on file on the overunity server.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3130.0/topicseen.html

Hans von Lieven

Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2007, 08:08:27 PM »
I did a little digging.  Here is another magnet power generator patent (No. 6,362,718):

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-64KAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,362,718

I doubt this one works either.

And about the USPTO and PPMs:  The USPTO has had a longstanding policy that anyone seeking a patent for a perpetual motion device must have a working model.  This policy was put into place because many unscrupulous persons were using the guise of a patent as validation of their technology and were duping investors in this way.

For more info on this as well as more examples of PPMs/energy generators which have been granted patents refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

So Omnibus is partially right in that it is a concern that someone does not use a patent to claim his or her device is legitimate.  However, I hope it is clear now that it is not so much a concern of the USPTO that patents are only granted on workable ideas, because this is clearly not the case, as little effort is made to validate the feasibility of other types of inventions.

Omnibus, if you want the USPTO to be a certifying body, then all I can say is: write your Congressman.


Thanks for the patent but I don't see how an electromagnetic generator is a perpetuum mobile. There is external energy applied in this case, isn't there? Or maybe I'm missing something. I know, however, of several perpetuum mobile patents, including that cited by @hansvonlieven. The patent I'm focusing on here in this thread is the one by Frank Fecera (http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=06867514&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D6,867,514.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F6,867,514%2526RS%3DPN%2F6,867,514&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page)
 because it's the most recent and the most explicit perpetuum mobile device of those I've seen so far.

Contacting my Congressman is certainly something which I'd consider doing, maybe even one of our Senators, Clinton or Schumer. I'd pursue first contacting the USPTO and will keep you posted. This problem shouldn't be left unresolved.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2007, 08:08:27 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2007, 08:10:30 PM »
Forgot to mention. As far a I know the owner of the patent @hansvonlieven mentions has demonstrated it before the US Patent Office. This patent is also worth pursuing.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2007, 08:20:28 PM »
Can't you read???


it says:

?An external power source such as a battery is used to initially supply power to start an alternator and generator. Once the system has started it is not necessary for the battery to supply power to the system. The battery can then be disconnected. The alternator and electric motor work in combination to generator electrical power. The alternator supplies this electrical power to the two inverters. One inverter outputs part of its power to the lamp load device and part back to the electric motor/generator. This power is used to power the electric motor. The second inverter supplies power to the specific load devices that are connected to the system.?

The highlighted text makes it clear that this is a perpetual motion device.

The inventor claims that he had a working device which has since been destroyed and he is trying to re-build it. An all too familiar story.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2007, 08:20:28 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2007, 08:48:49 PM »
Can't you read???


it says:

?An external power source such as a battery is used to initially supply power to start an alternator and generator. Once the system has started it is not necessary for the battery to supply power to the system. The battery can then be disconnected. The alternator and electric motor work in combination to generator electrical power. The alternator supplies this electrical power to the two inverters. One inverter outputs part of its power to the lamp load device and part back to the electric motor/generator. This power is used to power the electric motor. The second inverter supplies power to the specific load devices that are connected to the system.?

The highlighted text makes it clear that this is a perpetual motion device.

The inventor claims that he had a working device which has since been destroyed and he is trying to re-build it. An all too familiar story.

Hans von Lieven
The patentee said more important things. For instance, that he has demonstrated it to the US Patent Office. I said that, you didn't notice it but I'm repeating it. And yet, I don't think this and other perpetuum mobile patens which I also mentioned I know of are as explicit as the Fecera patent in being really perpetuum mobile. In the patent you quote there must be an external energy source, as very well seen from the boldened text you provide. Fecera, however, explicitly says in his patent:

"There are many instances where a motor action is required and no source of external power is available. Accordingly, a motor which relies solely on the energy stored in permanent magnets would be useful."

In Fecera's patent once the device is constructed there's no need for any external energy for it to turn.

Anyway, as I'd say for the third time, I know there are other perpetuum mobile's, other than that of McQueen and Fecera but of all those Fecera's is the most explicit that I know of in its being a perpetuum mobile and at the same time is fairly recent. Also, it isn't necessary at all to spread oneself too thin. One glaring example of a perpetuum mobile granted by the US Patent Office is enough to raise a red flag. Resolution of this will spread over to everything else.

Offline pese

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2007, 09:46:43 PM »
Some nice magnet motors patents from my link collection.

somes was "forgotten?"

Magnet
http://www.ameslab.gov/final/News/2001rel/01magneticrefrig.htm   MAGNETIC REFRIGERATOR SUCCESSFULLY TESTED

http://amasci.com/elect/mcoils.html          Transformers          RIGHT ANGLE CIRCUITRY   Achtung - Die dort gennanten Schaltungen
sind zum Teil Dummheiten. Jedoch sehr interessant als "Kniffel"-Aufgabe
zum nachdenken.
-----------------------------------------<h2>
Patent DC Motor  Hp  with low amperages

http://www.google.com/patents?id=9NQiAAAAEBAJ
 
Magnetic tramsmission Magnet Gear
http://www.google.de/patents?id=qApMAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2#PPA8,M1


http://www.google.com/patents?id=-64KAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,362,718  Motionless electromagnetic generator Stephen L. Patrick  LOOK THIS NOW  !!!!

http://www.google.de/patents?id=LREWAAAAEBAJ&dq=6867514  Permanent magnet motor Frank J. Fecera

http://www.google.de/patents?id=BkYxAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1 Permanent   magnet motor Leonard C. Czerniak

http://www.google.de/patents?id=JSIGAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1#PPA9,M1  Electric motor Barry Reginald Hobson et al   GIVE ATTENTION TI IT !! G.Pese

http://www.google.de/patents?id=3soIAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1   Energy extracting mechanism having a magnetic spring Etsunori Fujita et al

http://www.google.de/patents?id=2UIvAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1#PPA2,M1   Mechanic Energy storage and transmission apparatus Archie B. Gray

http://www.google.de/patents?id=Cc01AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1#PPA1,M1   Electric motor with permanent magnets combined with electromagnets Carlos S. Garron

http://www.google.de/patents?id=hhg8AAAAEBAJ&dq=Carlos+S.+Garron   Electric motor having permanent magnets and resonant circuit Carlos Subieta Garron

http://www.google.de/patents?id=FmpXAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=Carlos+S.+Garron  Transformer in Combination with permanent Magnet




Oh Wonder , an lot of Ideas.


http://www.google.com/patents?id=bkBXAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1#PPA3,M1   CURRENT RESPONSIVE ARRANGEMENT Inventor: Wemner- Kramer 1939

http://www.google.com/patents?id=jBRaAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1#PPP1,M1    POWER CONVERTER CIRCUITS HAVING A HIGH FREQUENCY LINK Mc Murray

http://www.google.com/patents?id=bGU0AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA68#PPA68,M1    Electromagnetic generator Eduardo Villasenor de Rivas

http://www.google.com/patents?id=NuomAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1#PPA5-IA2,M1  Single winding power converter John W. Luce
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4683527                     -""-

<h2>SOURCE: Home: 
http://www.pese.cjb.net/liELECTRO.html 
www.pese.cjb.net

Gustav Pese

« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 10:42:58 PM by pese »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2007, 09:46:43 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2007, 10:04:31 PM »
@shruggedatlas,

What do you think, will these organizations do the job:

http://www.pubpat.org/

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/

Have you heard of them or of similar organizations? Do you think they may help in resolving the problem?

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2007, 10:29:34 PM »
I doubt this one works either.
Who cares? You claim to have done a little digging, where is the long list of patents you found in the first 3 min? Why are we not discussing hundreds of patents?  I don't doubt you didn't look. I know for sure!

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-64KAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,362,718
Motionless electromagnetic generator

REFERENCES:
Patent Number   Title   Issue date
2153378   CURRENT RESPONSIVE ARRANGEMENT   Apr 1939
2892155   INPUT F   Jun 1959
3079535   VARIABLE STRENGTH PERMANENT MAGNETS   Feb 1963
3165723   MAGNETIC MEMORY DEVICE   Jan 1965
3228013   MAGNETIC MEMORY DEVICE   Jan 1966
3254268   PROTECTIVE SYSTEM FOR CAPACITANCE SERIALLY CONNECTED WITH INDUCTIVE APPARATUS   May 1966
3316514   FAIL SAFE ELECTRO-MAGNETIC LIFTING DEVICE WITH SAFETY-STOP MEANS   Apr 1967
3368141   SUBIETA-GARRON   Feb 1968
3391358   CIRCUIT BREAKER WITH IMPROVED MAGNETIC TRIP MEANS   Jul 1968
3453876   MAGNETOSTRICTIVE LOAD CELLS   Jul 1969
3517300   POWER CONVERTER CIRCUITS HAVING A HIGH FREQUENCY LINK   Jun 1970
3569947   MAGNETIC MEMORY DEVICE   Mar 1971
3599074   HIGH-POWER DIRECT-CURRENT TO SQUARE- WAVE CONVERTER UTILIZING AN INDUCTIVELY COUPLED GAS DISCHARGE TUBE   Aug 1971
4006401   Electromagnetic generator   Feb 1, 1977
4077001   Electromagnetic convertor with stationary variable-reluctance members   Feb 28, 1978
4366532   AC/DC or DC/AC Converter system with improved AC-line harmonic reduction   Dec 28, 1982
4482945   Transformer for low distortion rectifier system   Nov 13, 1984
4554524   Secondary circuit breaker for distribution transformer with indicator light switch mechanism   Nov 19, 1985
4853668   Integrated magnetic converter core   Aug 1, 1989
4864478   Integrated-magnetics power converter   Sep 5, 1989
4904926   Magnetic motion electrical generator   Feb 27, 1990
5011821   Method and apparatus for generating electricity   Apr 30, 1991
5221892   Flux compression transformer   Jun 22, 1993
5245521   Suppression of transformer capacitive current   Sep 14, 1993
5327015   Superconductor device to produce electrical impulses   Jul 5, 1994
5335163   Power supply circuit with integrated magnetic components   Aug 2, 1994
5694030   Magnetic element for power supply and DC-to-DC converter   Dec 2, 1997
Referenced by
Patent Number   Title   Issue date
7247337   Method and apparatus for microarray fabrication


Don Adsid has a nice page he says is from Geoff Engels Site


Bougon, G.H.     1859764     Magnetic Device     Permanent Magnet Motors     USA
Clover, L.W.    4025807    ELM Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Ecklin, J.W.    3879622    Magnet Motion Converter    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Gay, H.    #2486327    P.M. Self-Movement Device    Permanent Magnet Motors    FRANCE
Jines, J.E.    3469130    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Johnson, H.R.    4151431    Magnet Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kelly, D.A.    4082969    Magnetic Torque Converter    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kelly, D.A.    4167684    Magnet Torque Multiplier    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kelly, D.A.    4179633    Magnetic Wheel Drive    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kiniski, Z.C.    3811058    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kinnison, R.W.    3899703    Magnet Motion Converter    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Kuroki, 5.    4305024    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Powell, A.    1835721    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Poysa, J.W.    1963213    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Putt, J.W.    3992132    Energy Converter    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Scholin, H.W.    4011477    Magnet Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Sheridan, F.R.    3609425    Magnet Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Stahovic, R.F.    4207773    Magnetic Piston Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Teal, B.R.    4024421    Magnetic Engine    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Teal, B.R.    4093880    Magnetic Engine    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
Worthington, H.L.    1859643    Magnetic Motor    Permanent Magnet Motors    USA
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/menu/patents.htm

One should feel free to try be a little more specific as one generalised opinion. I'm sure the inventors range over a width spectrum. One universal debunk doesn't do justice to any of it. It merely describes the author.

If you want a clear violation of scientific dogma you look at the hundreds and hundreds of electrolysis patents. Stan showed a working model, everyone knows this. No way in the world would he have gotten that patent if he didn't have anything to show. They are granted under Section 101, the contraption has been examined by US Patent Office".

It's just like the medical establishment having problems with moderating ships logs. Any reasonably good captain however will describe what ever happened. His log is not something one can question.

In that same way the scientific establishment may pretend the patent office has zero credibility. But 101 is 101! The man in dresses can chant their mantra all day. Still 101 is 101. Then Stan was forbidden to continue his research under the US national security act. Science doesn't trust that either I guess? I would love to hear the opinion of a forensic scientist on this topic.

Give me a break? No rational argument is going to repair this lie.

The patent database is much like the Internet, it's only much more complicated to navigate. But if you compare navigation with 1980 then you will have to conclude that your 5 min google searching would have cost you thousands of bucks back then, your query would continue to return results over a very long time span. If you take a few hours to seriously collect links and compare that to 1960 you will have the equivalent of an extremely slow and most expensive project. It would have cost an enormous heap of cash and it would have taken years to resolve the data. Meanwhile everyone on the Internet is acting like a 12 year old kid crying wolf over not getting things on a gold plate. You are just lazy, this proves it.

My own "found patent list" got kind of crufty when I started mixing application numbers though it. :-[ It's pretty sad to have just an application number, most of the time you really cant find anything with it. 1 in 50 or so you can find the patent or (even better) another similar patent mentioning the application.
So, I decided upon having them rather then not having them I just forgot it takes 100 times as long to validate as a patent number. So, yeah my page is a big mess sorry peoples, please have mercy... What is your excuse btw?

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/others/patents
patents - others - magnetmotor

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/others
others - magnetmotor

____
puh, it's probably just nothing, all of it, it has to be, it must, no no no it cant be anything noooooo I hate smurfs!!

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2007, 12:51:30 AM »
@shruggedatlas,

What do you think, will these organizations do the job:

http://www.pubpat.org/

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/

Have you heard of them or of similar organizations? Do you think they may help in resolving the problem?

I have not heard of them, but the pubpat.org organization seems particularly interesting.  It files for reexamination and then produces prior art to invalidate patents.  I found a brief overview of reexamination.  I have not been involved in reexamination, but only in litigation as a researcher, so I am not familiar with this process, but it appears to be a speedier option to litigation.  It was introduced in 1980, looks like.

http://www.baypatents.com/reexam.asp

I think you would still need prior art to invalidate the patent.  The PTO will probably not care that the idea cannot work, though I agree that this notion offends sensibility.

Offline Freenrg4me

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2007, 02:11:07 AM »
I think you are all right some of the time. It is a fact that US patents go through a national security review process. If they have any military value,or if the patent attorney has not done her job correctly, you lose your rights to the patent. They use what are called marching orders to steal it from you,put you under a secrecy order and the patent office tells you to go pound sand.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the merchants of death produce your work or suppress your work by shelving it at the Carlyle Group for example. They may make a huge profit selling it to the pentagon that probably didn't even want it but the contract was awarded because the merchant of death gave a corrupt congressman 50K in an envelope and called it campaign finance.

I have an attorney in the family that does international patent law, and I have had to listen to the rant about the corruption. When it comes to the banking system or oil, it is considered vital national interests. That is code speak for "we will kill you if you mess with it or if we want it."

It is rarely in the national interest, it is in the interest of the entities that control the government. I live in the US and am not proud of that these days. Anyone that creates an OU device would be a fool to patent it. Name one person that actually created an OU device that either marketed it and made a profit or lived happily ever after. I does not happen and it is because of corruption.

If you want to profit from a "free energy" device, you had better do it quietly and remember the free part. You will only profit to the extent that everyone else does and it is because of corruption.

Money is worth nothing without oil, oil is worth nothing without fiat money and the military makes sure that they have a supply of oil.

The last stupid thing Saddam did was print his own money and demand payment in Iraqi Denar. The private corporation called the Federal Reserve ultimately run it all through their "Jewish Lobby" AKA the 4000 or so members of the CFR.

There are many organized crime syndicates in Washington DC and ultimately they depend on each other rather than compete. It is not the little guy at the patent office, it is the former executive from Phillips that runs that division that will make sure you don't sell your device or impede the Family business.

The US has always basically been run by around 200 families. Money, oil and death are family businesses.

So you are all right some of the time but Washington is corrupt all of the time. We do not live in a democracy and some of us are smart enough to realize that.

I personally plan retire by selling cookbooks to the poor that will eventually eat the rich. Technically, that makes me a merchant of death. javascript:void(0);
Grin

 

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