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Author Topic: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile  (Read 50119 times)

Offline linda933

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2007, 09:50:23 AM »
He may be semi-educated.  Could be he doesn't understand democracy.  No doubt at all that he's surly and quite shockingly ugly.  But, dear sir, I believe you will find that, on this particular matter of challenging the validity of a granted US patent, he may actually be correct.  God forbid!

Omnibus, you have insulted so many people here that I'd be surprised if anyone who knew the answer for certain would still be on speaking terms with you!  I say that based entirely on statistical probabilities.   If it is any consolation, I agree with you that the patent should be nullified, along with probably several hundred others. 

I believe that the reason most bogus patents are not challenged is that, until there is someone who has a financial interest sufficient to warrant the legal expense comes along, and wishes to claim the falsely-claimed IP territory with a working invention, there is just no incentive to mount the legal battle.  Unworkable patents bother many of us terribly, especially when they are paraded about as some kind of proof that the invention must be workable. 

I know of no procedure outside of a legal challenge filed in a court of jurisdiction to accomplish the task, though.  I'm sure if there were one, there would be far fewer bogus patents still standing.

Linda

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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2007, 10:11:16 AM »
He may be semi-educated.  Could be he doesn't understand democracy.  No doubt at all that he's surly and quite shockingly ugly.  But, dear sir, I believe you will find that, on this particular matter of challenging the validity of a granted US patent, he may actually be correct.  God forbid!

Omnibus, you have insulted so many people here that I'd be surprised if anyone who knew the answer for certain would still be on speaking terms with you!  I say that based entirely on statistical probabilities.   If it is any consolation, I agree with you that the patent should be nullified, along with probably several hundred others. 

I believe that the reason most bogus patents are not challenged is that, until there is someone who has a financial interest sufficient to warrant the legal expense comes along, and wishes to claim the falsely-claimed IP territory with a working invention, there is just no incentive to mount the legal battle.  Unworkable patents bother many of us terribly, especially when they are paraded about as some kind of proof that the invention must be workable. 

I know of no procedure outside of a legal challenge filed in a court of jurisdiction to accomplish the task, though.  I'm sure if there were one, there would be far fewer bogus patents still standing.

Linda
You should know that I have no friends other than the truth. Truth is my only friend and anybody either politely arrogant or whatever who violates the requirement to defend the truth or pushes his or her incompetence and clutters the forum so the truth cannot prevail will meet with my fair criticism, no matter how insulted he or she may feel.

As for the US Patent Office, it is absolutely unacceptable that we as taxpayers whould tolerate a federal agency which protects nonsense. That isn't to be challenged in court. There must be levers within the agency itself to prevent from losing face before the public. Legal actions are only required if there is some financial gain to be had in connection with a patent. In this case this is a purely idealistic pursuit with no financial gain so courts are irrelevevant in this case.

Offline linda933

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2007, 10:20:09 AM »
He may be semi-educated.  Could be he doesn't understand democracy.  No doubt at all that he's surly and quite shockingly ugly.  But, dear sir, I believe you will find that, on this particular matter of challenging the validity of a granted US patent, he may actually be correct.  God forbid!

Omnibus, you have insulted so many people here that I'd be surprised if anyone who knew the answer for certain would still be on speaking terms with you!  I say that based entirely on statistical probabilities.   If it is any consolation, I agree with you that the patent should be nullified, along with probably several hundred others. 

I believe that the reason most bogus patents are not challenged is that, until there is someone who has a financial interest sufficient to warrant the legal expense comes along, and wishes to claim the falsely-claimed IP territory with a working invention, there is just no incentive to mount the legal battle.  Unworkable patents bother many of us terribly, especially when they are paraded about as some kind of proof that the invention must be workable. 

I know of no procedure outside of a legal challenge filed in a court of jurisdiction to accomplish the task, though.  I'm sure if there were one, there would be far fewer bogus patents still standing.

Linda
You should know that I have no friends other than the truth. Truth is my only friend and anybody either politely arrogant or whatever who violates the requirement to defend the truth or pushes his or her incompetence and clutters the forum so the truth cannot prevail will meet with my fair criticism, no matter how insulted he or she may feel.

As for the US Patent Office, it is absolutely unacceptable that we as taxpayers whould tolerate a federal agency which protects nonsense. That isn't to be challenged in court. There must be levers within the agency itself to prevent from losing face before the public. Legal actions are only required if there is some financial gain to be had in connection with a patent. In this case this is a purely idealistic pursuit with no financial gain so courts are irrelevevant in this case.

So I guess you could write to your congressman or maybe to the Commisioner of Patents or something.  I agree that "there ought to be a way".  Of course, you have to play the devil's advocate and realize that if all it took was a letter and a lack of a "produced physical proof of efficacy", there would be people who would abuse the system all too easily.  I think the possibilities would get complicated fast enough and often enough that a court of law would be necessary, sad to say.

Linda

P.S.  Hans isn't really so ugly, I guess, but he is certainly a surly devil isn't he? LOL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2007, 10:20:09 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2007, 10:26:35 AM »
He may be semi-educated.  Could be he doesn't understand democracy.  No doubt at all that he's surly and quite shockingly ugly.  But, dear sir, I believe you will find that, on this particular matter of challenging the validity of a granted US patent, he may actually be correct.  God forbid!

Omnibus, you have insulted so many people here that I'd be surprised if anyone who knew the answer for certain would still be on speaking terms with you!  I say that based entirely on statistical probabilities.   If it is any consolation, I agree with you that the patent should be nullified, along with probably several hundred others. 

I believe that the reason most bogus patents are not challenged is that, until there is someone who has a financial interest sufficient to warrant the legal expense comes along, and wishes to claim the falsely-claimed IP territory with a working invention, there is just no incentive to mount the legal battle.  Unworkable patents bother many of us terribly, especially when they are paraded about as some kind of proof that the invention must be workable. 

I know of no procedure outside of a legal challenge filed in a court of jurisdiction to accomplish the task, though.  I'm sure if there were one, there would be far fewer bogus patents still standing.

Linda
You should know that I have no friends other than the truth. Truth is my only friend and anybody either politely arrogant or whatever who violates the requirement to defend the truth or pushes his or her incompetence and clutters the forum so the truth cannot prevail will meet with my fair criticism, no matter how insulted he or she may feel.

As for the US Patent Office, it is absolutely unacceptable that we as taxpayers whould tolerate a federal agency which protects nonsense. That isn't to be challenged in court. There must be levers within the agency itself to prevent from losing face before the public. Legal actions are only required if there is some financial gain to be had in connection with a patent. In this case this is a purely idealistic pursuit with no financial gain so courts are irrelevevant in this case.

So I guess you could write to your congressman or maybe to the Commisioner of Patents or something.  I agree that "there ought to be a way".  Of course, you have to play the devil's advocate and realize that if all it took was a letter and a lack of a "produced physical proof of efficacy", there would be people who would abuse the system all too easily.  I think the possibilities would get complicated fast enough and often enough that a court of law would be necessary, sad to say.

Linda

P.S.  Hans isn't really so ugly, I guess, but he is certainly a surly devil isn't he? LOL
Yeah, something like this. It has to be thought over carefully, though, to be efficient and not just barren activity.

Offline Prophmaji

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2007, 10:42:59 AM »
It started with the native Americans. They began dying, in droves. Blood from day one.

As far as the second world war, it started in 1939, not when Pearl Harbour was attacked, as allowed by the oval office, to create a fervor in the public, as in the same tactic, recently used, and called '9/11'. So yes, American history books are specifically wrong on this point. World war II did NOT start with the attack on Pearl Harbour. It started 2 years before. America was selling arms and making profits on all sides before that. Like Prescott bush heading a consortium of banks that financed the Nazi's until they were stopped and doing secretly long afterward. So, the current president's grandfather was directly involved in financing the Nazi's for profit and directly responsible for the deaths of many. And he was going to be tried for treason and executed, but this was stopped by the owners of the Fed reserve, a privately held bank system...that still controls all money in the US,and it has never been audited. Look up the real history of the Federal reserve bank.  it is not a government institution, as the vast majority of the US public believes. It is a private group of banks, with zero government intervention or oversight. This is completely against US law.

The group of banks, also includes the Rothschild family, Harriman, Morgan, etc. They mounted an attack on the money system on, I believe, December 24th, Christmas eve, at 11:45pm, 1913, via republican voting in congress.  Before then, (the money supply) it was in the hands of the treasury office, as it should be, in any country..except the US. After that moment that bill was passed by an empty congress (all had gone home for Christmas break) except those few who made the vote for their friends who owned the banks.... it was thereafter signed into law by Woodrow Wilson,  who swore to his dying day that he destroyed his country that day.

The UN was created by the same group of elite bankers for the same reasons. Which is why it is so ineffective. Same for NATO.

The US gives money to other countries via the 'world bank', an arm of the Fed owners, and screw over and bankrupt foreign countries under the guise of helping them. You have military bases in about 130-150 countries. Many of those are conditional on those corrupt loans. The CIA is more properly known as the cocaine importation agency, and is responsible for the vast majority of the cocaine imported into the us. This business is protected by the DEA and others. Bush Senior is the biggest drug dealer in the history of the world. Bush junior is a lunatic child, who controls nothing..he is figurehead. An idiot. A frightening truth. Two elections were corrupted to maintain that control.... and real people, like Ron Paul.... are being sidelined by the same corrupt and controlled media, even though he is the most popular candidate since Kennedy. If he gains any more popularity he might end up assassinated, obviously, by some lone patsy, of course. And that patsy will die before any investigation can occur. A typical tactic. For example, On his deathbed, E.Howard Hunt, of Watergate break-in fame..made a written, in his handwriting, and taped, in his own voice, confession that Bush senior was present at Daly Plaza the day Kennedy died, as part of the operation (assassination).And to add, that Hoover was in on it,and that it was largely run by "President Johnson" and friends from the banking and oil industries. These tapes and papers are in the hands of his son (who was there for their recording).....his name is Saint John Hunt. Look it up. Bet the US media doesn't want you to know this stuff!!!! Which is exactly why you DON'T know.

China is supplied by a pipeline running through India and Afghanistan. The pipeline was GOING to be awarded to Haliburton, Cheney's little company. When the company that won the contract for the pipeline came out of Argentina, suddenly 9/11 occurred, and the war was taken to Iraq, to get the oil..and the war was also stepped up in Afghanistan, so they could control the pipeline, a paltry $6 trillion operation. And the drug from the poppies, Heroin trade, was divvied up by the Brits and the CIA, so the elite of Britain and the US (CIA) could get untold billions in totally 'black' money for secret operations. No need to wash any of it, the money is all 'black'. Besides raping the US economy of 9 trillion $ of value. Why is India so favored as of late? think about it. Osama was dragged out of the closet as a premise for both operations, he originally being a CIA trained asset, and a member of a rich Saudi family, who are close friends and business partners of the Bush family for 30 years prior to and after the towers being brought down. The pipeline control via a presence in Afghanistan is the sole reason China is willing to sit on the 1 Trillion in US dollars, and not dump it. As of recent you have folks like Ray McGovern attempting to tell you the truth of what is going on. He was the CIA White House Activity Liason for the Oval office for 15 of his 27 years at the CIA. He briefed the Presidents, 4 of them, on world activities via the CIA. Look him up. He is is trying to tell you the truth of this stuff. Recently, a CIA officer has tried to, at great personal risk, to tell you that there are no more than 14 Al-queda left in the world, period. All of them are highly ineffective, like kids in basements talking about the Sears tower.... There never were any terrorists. It was all a lie, a ruse - to get you to go along with the raping of the world and the US. This has been done for millennia, just look at Rome and the Visigoths, via Cicero. Cicero did the same thing to Rome as the Bush family and friends are doing today. This is all straight out of the Goebbels propaganda handbook. This is how entire populations have been controlled for millennia.

Rest assured, the Chinese are reading this forum. The same time that folks were screaming from the rooftops that Pons and Fleischman were full of crap on cold fusion, there were over 300 conferences on cold fusion in China. The Chinese want over unity, the elite of the world depend on energy control to keep their teeth sunk firmly into controlling the world. And you folks..are RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that battle field. And they will tear down the US in that effort, and show every sign of doing exactly that...right now. Rest assured, every single one of you are on a watch list due to this situation. The Middle Class population of the US, for the main part, unions, rights (in specific ways, etc), noncompetition laws, too little ownership of too many companies, IE too much concentration of wealth in the hands of the few-this is the one big thing that Bush II has destroyed-the laws that protect diversity. He destroyed financial diversity in the US at the highest levels-via the breaking of competition and diversity laws. He literally did this in his first month in office.

Most specifically, the overall awareness of US citizens is the bigger point, they want proles and serfs, not thinking human beings who might question the reality they try and give you. So, the US middle class is kept ignorant and is in the process of being eliminated. By the same bankers, who created the private company called the FED, via money market manipulation.

Many folks fight back, the most critical ones die. like free-energy researchers, good people who got into politics, good hearted businessmen, etc. Many of those good folks die. Many try to strike a balance, and become rich while they do their damnedest to try and help. Like Richard Branson, owner of Virgin airlines trying to get '9/11 loose change' on his international inflight movies for a month. He came up via nonpolitical/non-elitest routes and is an outsider... and appears to be the real thing, a concerned human being who is trying to get these animals off us. Keeping you ignorant is key to all these clandestine activities. For doing this, like I'm doing right now, I have been personally visited by members of the US defence Industry, right in my office. I'm playing with fire.

The lid is coming off on over-unity technologies and the understanding of the true existence of multidimensionality and parallel universes, etc. Every science known to mankind is 'brick walling', IE..is hitting the limits and coming back with information that supports over unity, wave-particle duality, over-unity or aetheric energy, and 'action at a distance', etc. The list is endless, but they all support each other, completely. This is getting too hard to control, in terms of too many people knowing the truth of what existence really is and how effective they can be in having positive lives in their own hands and live incredibly long lives at that. The elite of the world are panicking, their asses are being exposed and they are moving faster than they want to,as when they move fast, it exposes them. They are very dangerous right now, and will do anything, anything at all to maintain their grip of power as these families know..that if exposed..they will all likely die. All due to the fact that science cannot be slowed down and all these points in science and human understanding are coming along at breakneck speed. These dangerous animalistic elite are ready to kill as many of you as need be, to maintain that control. Look up the 'Fulford Ultimatum' for a rare look at what is really going on in this whole caste system.
 
The pituitary gland, for example, is critical in the growth of neural pathways and new neural pathways, in adult life. Real 'higher learning'. If damaged, we get mental retards, for the larger part. Lower energy intensity and lower intelligence people. Fluoride was introduced to the water systems of large parts of the US, but it does nothing for tooth decay, it was a ruse to destroy the minds of generations of US citizens. It severely damages the pituitary gland. Sound fishy? Check it out. The man responsible for the creation of this fluoride inclusion system is horrified as to what went on and has spent his remaining years on this planet doing everything he can to remove fluoride from US drinking water. To make you aware of the dangers. He is being blocked from doing that.

Rusmfeld, of US defence department fame, has been crying about terrorists that don't exist, with his buddy Cheney, for over 30 years. (remember, it's Cicero and the Visigoths, all over again) He was the head of Monsanto Corp, during the push to get Aspertame legalized, which specifically does just about the same as fluoride to human beings. Aspertame is a severe nerve toxin, it's origins are that it is a powerful crop dusting poison. There was a HUGE debacle at the FDA about that one. Three companies went bankrupt attemptring to legalize Aspertame via the FDA. The FDA was turned inside out, from the inside, by monied powers, to make it happen. The FDA was nearly blown to pieces in the fervor of the elite to get this vitality sapping and life destroying, highly addictive drug into the hands of innocent folks. Now, Bush appoints all his fascist monied cronies as the heads of all these critical internal outfits like FDA, IRS, FTC, etc, all to feed the companies that control the US, and those few familes, which control the stock exchange, the money supply, and the price of precious metals. I know some of these points directly from the horse's mouth-with respect to cronies being put in place as heads of all these agencies.

If you are still reading and think I'm a conspiracy freak..remember..during the second world war..we had millions of people in Britain attempting to keep a deep secret (D-Day invasion) from millions of inquiring germans. This did work, as the critical points were in the hands of a few people that could be counted on the fingers of one hand, on either side. So huge conspiracies CAN and HAVE been shown to be controllable by a very few people. They are real, no doubt. History illustrates this point brilliantly, so it is difficult for you to cry about your emotional point of view which may not want you looking in there, it might hurt your views on reality and make you sweat a bit, heaven forbid, even think a bit.

The day before the twin towers were brought down by demolition, a press conference was called (sept 10/2001) to speak on the missing $2.2 trillion in pentagon coffers, which was controlled by an Israeli citizen by the name of Dov Zakheim .  The so-called plane that hit the pentagon,  actually a missile, followed by the drone plane, it hit and killed the accountancy team that was doing the financial investigation,  22 of them died. You have many, many, key top people in the US government, at  the highest levels are DUAL citizens of the US and Israel, which is completely against all federal laws requiring single US citizenship in those government positions.

And on, and on, and on..............

Any of this can be researched, every bit is true.

So yes, I know my history.

To go full circle, rest assured, anything you provide to the patent office, insofar as technology goes..has been read over very carefully by these folk the day it hits the patent office. And if the technology is deemed dangerous to their control, you are put on their 'honey do' list.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 07:33:40 PM by Prophmaji »

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2007, 10:42:59 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2007, 08:10:28 PM »
Sounds like you have bought into each and every conspiacy theory that has even been invented.  I don't think you left any single one out. If you seriously think that the 911 attacks were an "inside job" using "a missle and a drone", there is not a single thing I can say in response to you because you are too far gone to be reasoned with.  I don't mean that as an insult, but I am seriously at a loss for words.

Bill

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2007, 08:27:50 PM »
@All,

I spoke with an examiner and will pursue this thing further. Amazingly, the patentee has brought several models to the US Patent Office but none of them had been a working model, just experiment "demonstrating" that potentially such motor can be built. And this is how the examiners were convinced of its viability!? Interestingly, although the very title says "Permanent Magnet Motor" the examiner tried to persuade me that the patent had been issued solely for the partiular construction of the magnet device. When I pressed him he said that the approval of this patent has passed several levels of scrutiny and the final decision hasn't been only his. Of course, I have no intention of harming anybody at the patent office while recognizing that we're all humans and mistakes are made. This is a serious mistake (not to require proof positive for such an important claim of far-reaching consequences), however, and it must be corrected. The examiner insisted that I should contact Frank Fecera himself. Aside from the fact that I did that and all my attempts to speak to him were in vain (I hear only a message on his answering machine, not to say that it was very difficult to get his telephone number) I think that it's US Patent Office's duty to require a demonstration if they want to save face. This patent is on public record and no excuses with NDA's and private companies' rules hold any water this time. Steorn, Torbay, Perendev etc. may escape from such scrutiny. This one cannot. Besides, Steorn would be out of their minds to demonstrate anything before Fecera proves that his device is viable, otherwise Steorn will be infringing on Fecera's patent and Fecera will own everything Steorn demonstrates. This is the status of this important inquiry as of today.

Does anyone know how a review process of an already issued patent can be initiated in the US Patent Office by a third party?

There is a process by which an issued patent can be overturned, but this process involves courts and lawyers.  This is expensive, and normally only done by a party with a financial interest, for example by someone with a desire to market a similar product, but with no desire to pay licensing fees to the original patent holder.

I have to ask.  Why does it bother you that there is a nonworking patent on the books?  It is one of many, I assure you.  The fact that it is a perpetual motion device is perhaps the only thing of note about it.

Keep in mind that the primary reason that the patent office kicks back PMM patents and demands working demos, is that it saves time.  The examiner does not need to spend the hundred plus hours necessary to review prior art, but can simply reject it after a few minutes of scanning the application.  This is not done out of a desire to keep the patent registry "scientifically correct".  That ship has long sailed, and frankly there is no desire to allocate sufficient resources to make this happen.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2007, 08:27:50 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2007, 10:08:01 PM »
@All,

I spoke with an examiner and will pursue this thing further. Amazingly, the patentee has brought several models to the US Patent Office but none of them had been a working model, just experiment "demonstrating" that potentially such motor can be built. And this is how the examiners were convinced of its viability!? Interestingly, although the very title says "Permanent Magnet Motor" the examiner tried to persuade me that the patent had been issued solely for the partiular construction of the magnet device. When I pressed him he said that the approval of this patent has passed several levels of scrutiny and the final decision hasn't been only his. Of course, I have no intention of harming anybody at the patent office while recognizing that we're all humans and mistakes are made. This is a serious mistake (not to require proof positive for such an important claim of far-reaching consequences), however, and it must be corrected. The examiner insisted that I should contact Frank Fecera himself. Aside from the fact that I did that and all my attempts to speak to him were in vain (I hear only a message on his answering machine, not to say that it was very difficult to get his telephone number) I think that it's US Patent Office's duty to require a demonstration if they want to save face. This patent is on public record and no excuses with NDA's and private companies' rules hold any water this time. Steorn, Torbay, Perendev etc. may escape from such scrutiny. This one cannot. Besides, Steorn would be out of their minds to demonstrate anything before Fecera proves that his device is viable, otherwise Steorn will be infringing on Fecera's patent and Fecera will own everything Steorn demonstrates. This is the status of this important inquiry as of today.

Does anyone know how a review process of an already issued patent can be initiated in the US Patent Office by a third party?

There is a process by which an issued patent can be overturned, but this process involves courts and lawyers.  This is expensive, and normally only done by a party with a financial interest, for example by someone with a desire to market a similar product, but with no desire to pay licensing fees to the original patent holder.

I have to ask.  Why does it bother you that there is a nonworking patent on the books?  It is one of many, I assure you.  The fact that it is a perpetual motion device is perhaps the only thing of note about it.

Keep in mind that the primary reason that the patent office kicks back PMM patents and demands working demos, is that it saves time.  The examiner does not need to spend the hundred plus hours necessary to review prior art, but can simply reject it after a few minutes of scanning the application.  This is not done out of a desire to keep the patent registry "scientifically correct".  That ship has long sailed, and frankly there is no desire to allocate sufficient resources to make this happen.
Perpetuum mobile claim is dramatically out of the ordinary and I will not in any way consider it of significance less than that. The US Patent Office is the official governmental agency due to protect reason and not to protect nonsense. This goes without saying. To think it?s otherwise is to accept that USA is facing a catastrophe. I will not in any way forget that, neither any reasonable person should, no matter how tempting it is now that patents for perpetuum mobile devices have been noticed to have been granted by the USPTO seems to be to conveniently dismiss it. It is hypocritical to elevate to the skies the significance of the US Patent Office when it fits one's interests and to belittle it when interests require it. I will never agree to that, neither the American public will agree to that. I assure you that the US Patent Office will also not agree that it's regular business is to protect just anything, never mind if it's nonsense.

Therefore, instead of finding ways to explain that something obviously very significant isn?t significant, it would be much more productive to suggest ways to right this wrong within the system of the US Patent Office and not let it off the hook by going to courts. This will also be significant in that it would prevent future errors of the US Patent Office, especially of this magnitude.

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2007, 10:26:29 PM »
@All,

I spoke with an examiner and will pursue this thing further. Amazingly, the patentee has brought several models to the US Patent Office but none of them had been a working model, just experiment "demonstrating" that potentially such motor can be built. And this is how the examiners were convinced of its viability!? Interestingly, although the very title says "Permanent Magnet Motor" the examiner tried to persuade me that the patent had been issued solely for the partiular construction of the magnet device. When I pressed him he said that the approval of this patent has passed several levels of scrutiny and the final decision hasn't been only his. Of course, I have no intention of harming anybody at the patent office while recognizing that we're all humans and mistakes are made. This is a serious mistake (not to require proof positive for such an important claim of far-reaching consequences), however, and it must be corrected. The examiner insisted that I should contact Frank Fecera himself. Aside from the fact that I did that and all my attempts to speak to him were in vain (I hear only a message on his answering machine, not to say that it was very difficult to get his telephone number) I think that it's US Patent Office's duty to require a demonstration if they want to save face. This patent is on public record and no excuses with NDA's and private companies' rules hold any water this time. Steorn, Torbay, Perendev etc. may escape from such scrutiny. This one cannot. Besides, Steorn would be out of their minds to demonstrate anything before Fecera proves that his device is viable, otherwise Steorn will be infringing on Fecera's patent and Fecera will own everything Steorn demonstrates. This is the status of this important inquiry as of today.

Does anyone know how a review process of an already issued patent can be initiated in the US Patent Office by a third party?

There is a process by which an issued patent can be overturned, but this process involves courts and lawyers.  This is expensive, and normally only done by a party with a financial interest, for example by someone with a desire to market a similar product, but with no desire to pay licensing fees to the original patent holder.

I have to ask.  Why does it bother you that there is a nonworking patent on the books?  It is one of many, I assure you.  The fact that it is a perpetual motion device is perhaps the only thing of note about it.

Keep in mind that the primary reason that the patent office kicks back PMM patents and demands working demos, is that it saves time.  The examiner does not need to spend the hundred plus hours necessary to review prior art, but can simply reject it after a few minutes of scanning the application.  This is not done out of a desire to keep the patent registry "scientifically correct".  That ship has long sailed, and frankly there is no desire to allocate sufficient resources to make this happen.
Perpetuum mobile claim is dramatically out of the ordinary and I will not in any way consider it of significance less than that. The US Patent Office is the official governmental agency due to protect reason and not to protect nonsense. This goes without saying. To think it?s otherwise is to accept that USA is facing a catastrophe. I will not in any way forget that, neither any reasonable person should, no matter how tempting it is now that patents for perpetuum mobile devices have been noticed to have been granted by the USPTO seems to be to conveniently dismiss it. It is hypocritical to elevate to the skies the significance of the US Patent Office when it fits one's interests and to belittle it when interests require it. I will never agree to that, neither the American public will agree to that. I assure you that the US Patent Office will also not agree that it's regular business is to protect just anything, never mind if it's nonsense.

Therefore, instead of finding ways to explain that something obviously very significant isn?t significant, it would be much more productive to suggest ways to right this wrong within the system of the US Patent Office and not let it off the hook by going to courts. This will also be significant in that it would prevent future errors of the US Patent Office, especially of this magnitude.

What I am saying is that there IS a way to right every wrong patent.  I assume you only care about the ones still in effect, i.e. those filed 20 years ago or more recently.  So, just get a few (or more) billion dollars together and sue every patent holder who you believe holds an invalid patent.  Currently, the average cost of single patent lawsuit is $2 million, give or take.

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2007, 10:26:29 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2007, 10:42:51 PM »
@All,

I spoke with an examiner and will pursue this thing further. Amazingly, the patentee has brought several models to the US Patent Office but none of them had been a working model, just experiment "demonstrating" that potentially such motor can be built. And this is how the examiners were convinced of its viability!? Interestingly, although the very title says "Permanent Magnet Motor" the examiner tried to persuade me that the patent had been issued solely for the partiular construction of the magnet device. When I pressed him he said that the approval of this patent has passed several levels of scrutiny and the final decision hasn't been only his. Of course, I have no intention of harming anybody at the patent office while recognizing that we're all humans and mistakes are made. This is a serious mistake (not to require proof positive for such an important claim of far-reaching consequences), however, and it must be corrected. The examiner insisted that I should contact Frank Fecera himself. Aside from the fact that I did that and all my attempts to speak to him were in vain (I hear only a message on his answering machine, not to say that it was very difficult to get his telephone number) I think that it's US Patent Office's duty to require a demonstration if they want to save face. This patent is on public record and no excuses with NDA's and private companies' rules hold any water this time. Steorn, Torbay, Perendev etc. may escape from such scrutiny. This one cannot. Besides, Steorn would be out of their minds to demonstrate anything before Fecera proves that his device is viable, otherwise Steorn will be infringing on Fecera's patent and Fecera will own everything Steorn demonstrates. This is the status of this important inquiry as of today.

Does anyone know how a review process of an already issued patent can be initiated in the US Patent Office by a third party?

There is a process by which an issued patent can be overturned, but this process involves courts and lawyers.  This is expensive, and normally only done by a party with a financial interest, for example by someone with a desire to market a similar product, but with no desire to pay licensing fees to the original patent holder.

I have to ask.  Why does it bother you that there is a nonworking patent on the books?  It is one of many, I assure you.  The fact that it is a perpetual motion device is perhaps the only thing of note about it.

Keep in mind that the primary reason that the patent office kicks back PMM patents and demands working demos, is that it saves time.  The examiner does not need to spend the hundred plus hours necessary to review prior art, but can simply reject it after a few minutes of scanning the application.  This is not done out of a desire to keep the patent registry "scientifically correct".  That ship has long sailed, and frankly there is no desire to allocate sufficient resources to make this happen.
Perpetuum mobile claim is dramatically out of the ordinary and I will not in any way consider it of significance less than that. The US Patent Office is the official governmental agency due to protect reason and not to protect nonsense. This goes without saying. To think it?s otherwise is to accept that USA is facing a catastrophe. I will not in any way forget that, neither any reasonable person should, no matter how tempting it is now that patents for perpetuum mobile devices have been noticed to have been granted by the USPTO seems to be to conveniently dismiss it. It is hypocritical to elevate to the skies the significance of the US Patent Office when it fits one's interests and to belittle it when interests require it. I will never agree to that, neither the American public will agree to that. I assure you that the US Patent Office will also not agree that it's regular business is to protect just anything, never mind if it's nonsense.

Therefore, instead of finding ways to explain that something obviously very significant isn?t significant, it would be much more productive to suggest ways to right this wrong within the system of the US Patent Office and not let it off the hook by going to courts. This will also be significant in that it would prevent future errors of the US Patent Office, especially of this magnitude.

What I am saying is that there IS a way to right every wrong patent.  I assume you only care about the ones still in effect, i.e. those filed 20 years ago or more recently.  So, just get a few (or more) billion dollars together and sue every patent holder who you believe holds an invalid patent.  Currently, the average cost of single patent lawsuit is $2 million, give or take.
Like I said, that's exactly what shouldn't be done because it lets US Patent Office off the hook. This proposal makes it so that USPTO can do whatever they please without any accountability and everything wrong that they do is to be righted on the outside, somewhere else, not where it was committed. It is expecially important not to let it go when such a momentuous error has been made--to grant perpetuum mobile patents without any scientific or factual backing.

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2007, 10:42:55 PM »
It started with the native Americans. They began dying, in droves. Blood from day one.

As far as the second world war, it started in 1939, not when Pearl Harbour was attacked, as allowed by the oval office, to create a fervor in the public, as in the same tactic, recently used, and called '9/11'.

(snipped to save precious monitor real estate)


Dude, I think you have been visiting boards like this too much, where fringe views like yours are accepted with little scrutiny.  I will not debate you point by point, but you use the common conspiracy technique of interleaving truth with fiction, thereby attempting to imbue fiction with the shine of truth.

All I can say is this: compare what the U.S. has done with its military might to what other nations in history have done.  Try to keep things in perspective.  No nation is perfect, but compared with many in the past who could field the relatively unstoppable military that the U.S. can field currently, the U.S. is a peaceful neighbor and a protector to the rest of the world.

The U.S. could, if it wished, simply invade the entire Middle East, bomb them into the Stone Age, and take their oil.  Would Russia and China object?  Cut them in on the action.  You trust their scruples?  This is the type of thing that the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and countless other past powers would not have hesitated to do if it was within their reach.  Be glad there is a U.S. on this globe to keep other major powers in check.

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2007, 10:42:55 PM »
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Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2007, 10:56:51 PM »
Like I said, that's exactly what shouldn't be done because it lets US Patent Office off the hook. This proposal makes it so that USPTO can do whatever they please without any accountability and everything wrong that they do is to be righted on the outside, somewhere else, not where it was committed. It is expecially important not to let it go when such a momentuous error has been made--to grant perpetuum mobile patents without any scientific or factual backing.

I really do not see what you are proposing.  Any method of review of the validity of a patent would entail a judge and perhaps a jury, so it would necessarily be "outside" of the PTO office.  The patent examiner already made his decision, and he is not just going to overrule himself most of the time, so you need some kind of court system to handle disputes.  The owner of the patent would need a chance to present his side of the case.

This is exactly what we already have, and you are welcome to use it, if it really bothers you that much that this patent is on the books.  Patent litigation is expensive because patent law is a difficult area of study, and lawyers can charge high rates.  You are welcome to go to law school yourself and then sit for the patent bar, and then you can do all this pro bono.  Otherwise, you need to hire representation.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2007, 11:13:16 PM »
Like I said, that's exactly what shouldn't be done because it lets US Patent Office off the hook. This proposal makes it so that USPTO can do whatever they please without any accountability and everything wrong that they do is to be righted on the outside, somewhere else, not where it was committed. It is expecially important not to let it go when such a momentuous error has been made--to grant perpetuum mobile patents without any scientific or factual backing.

I really do not see what you are proposing.  Any method of review of the validity of a patent would entail a judge and perhaps a jury, so it would necessarily be "outside" of the PTO office.  The patent examiner already made his decision, and he is not just going to overrule himself most of the time, so you need some kind of court system to handle disputes.  The owner of the patent would need a chance to present his side of the case.

This is exactly what we already have, and you are welcome to use it, if it really bothers you that much that this patent is on the books.  Patent litigation is expensive because patent law is a difficult area of study, and lawyers can charge high rates.  You are welcome to go to law school yourself and then sit for the patent bar, and then you can do all this pro bono.  Otherwise, you need to hire representation.
I'd expect that the examiner himself or herself or his or her supervisor would require the patentee to bring in a working model, in view of new circumstances, or else the patent will be revoked. It shouldn't be that a scammer who managed somehow to trick the examiner, would be allowed to set the deviously obtained decision in stone. No way. I can't believe that the system doesn't have these elementary protections.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2007, 11:39:42 PM »
G'day shruggedatlas,

In the main I agree with your assessment. I am not too familiar with US law, but basically it is the same as here in Australia, where I do have some knowledge.

The moment a patent is granted it has become PROPERTY. From that moment on the owner of the patent becomes a party to any dispute involving the patent as you quite rightly pointed out. This implies that any dispute has to come before an impartial arbiter and cannot be anymore resolved by the Patent Office. To do so after having granted the patent would leave the Patent Office open to litigation.

As to who can challenge the validity of a patent I am not so sure how this would work in the US. Here in Australia you would have to show an equitable interest in the matter, like a competing patent application or prior art or something like that in order to even get it to Court.

At least here in Australia you cannot challenge a patent in Court simply because you don't like it or because you have reason to believe it does not work. I would imagine it is similar in the US, otherwise the Courts would be even more clogged up than they are now.

Would you be so kind to explain to me how that would work in the US?

Hans von Lieven

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2007, 12:20:00 AM »
G'day shruggedatlas,

In the main I agree with your assessment. I am not too familiar with US law, but basically it is the same as here in Australia, where I do have some knowledge.

The moment a patent is granted it has become PROPERTY. From that moment on the owner of the patent becomes a party to any dispute involving the patent as you quite rightly pointed out. This implies that any dispute has to come before an impartial arbiter and cannot be anymore resolved by the Patent Office. To do so after having granted the patent would leave the Patent Office open to litigation.

As to who can challenge the validity of a patent I am not so sure how this would work in the US. Here in Australia you would have to show an equitable interest in the matter, like a competing patent application or prior art or something like that in order to even get it to Court.

At least here in Australia you cannot challenge a patent in Court simply because you don't like it or because you have reason to believe it does not work. I would imagine it is similar in the US, otherwise the Courts would be even more clogged up than they are now.

Would you be so kind to explain to me how that would work in the US?

Hans von Lieven

You can basically defeat any patent if you can show prior art.  Obviousness is another avenue, though that can be hard to establish.  I have not heard of a patent being overturned simply because it does not work, but there are things I do not know.  So I may need to amend my previous statement about Omnibus being able to defeat the offending patent, because absent prior art, the patent will likely hold up.

The whole question is a little silly though.  Patents on nonworking devices have no commercial value - there are no license fees and no one sues over them.  That is why this issue is rarely brought up, and when it is, it is by those who have an unrealistic view of what the patent system is for.

I do think the USPTO is understaffed, and there are not enough examiners to handle the current load, and this needs to be fixed.  Stretched resources is probably how this PPM patent got granted.

 

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