Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83680
  • *Latest: dnz007

  • *Total Posts: 516043
  • *Total Topics: 15381
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 7
  • *Guests: 13
  • *Total: 20

Author Topic: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile  (Read 50120 times)

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2007, 11:59:26 PM »
The decisions of the US patent office have been overruled by the Courts on hundreds of occasions over the years. It is a matter of public record.

Hans von Lieven
You should stop with your nonsense. No one here needs your incompetent remarks. You will talk against this particular patent only when this particular patent is overruled by the courts. Until then it's a valid US patent and you should respect it and the fact that US Patent Office has recognized the viability of perpetuum mobile. Do you get it or I should repeat it for you as you seem not to understand even simple things such as this when said once? Don't clutter the forum with your nonsense.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2007, 12:04:14 AM »
Quote
Because of this... they DESERVE to be challenged!
Good enough. Challenge them. Challenge them, however, where the challenge takes place, not here. Like I said, until a judge decides against the patent in question due to your challenge you must respect the fact that it has the backing of the US government, recognized as perpetuum mobile. Is that clear?

Offline hansvonlieven

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2558
    • Keelytech
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2007, 12:08:23 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2007, 12:08:23 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2007, 12:21:20 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven
Listen, you moron, you're a nobody and have no right to disrespect a federal agency such as the US Patent Office and its decisions. If you disagree there are courts and you may challenge the decisions of the US Paten Office there. Spewing utter crap in the forums only shows what a mean little twerp you are. Stop cluttering the interesting discussion with your politely arrogant gibberish.

Offline ForeverBlissed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 12:43:11 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven
Listen, you moron, you're a nobody and have no right to disrespect a federal agency such as the US Patent Office and its decisions. If you disagree there are courts and you may challenge the decisions of the US Paten Office there. Spewing utter crap in the forums only shows what a mean little twerp you are. Stop cluttering the interesting discussion with your politely arrogant gibberish.

Everyone has the right AND the duty to challenge all decisions made by every decision making authority in this country.

This includes the US Patent Office.

It's called freedom... and in case someone has forgotten, it is our right here in this country to do so.

Having a 'shut up' and 'respect an institution above all else' attitude here does no one any good... including you!   

We MUST and SHOULD discuss rulings made here... 

If we stop discussing, then there can be no change... and there can be no improvement to the human condition.

FB


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 12:43:11 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2007, 01:21:11 AM »
What bothers me about the patent is that it is so broad it actually covers some of the way an SEG works.

I think you and some others have raised valid criticisms of the current U.S. patent system.  However, having experience in the matter, in practice you would find that if you invented a working device and someone else has invented a nonworking device and patented it first, you would not have much trouble getting your patent approved.  You see, the thing that makes your device actually work would have to be different from the non-working model, so you could differentiate your invention based on that.

The way you lay your claims out is why this works out this way.  Let me give an example.  Suppose someone had patented a device involving a magnet coil and pendulum inside.  (Magnet coil on its own not being sufficient for the device to purportedly work.)  The claim would be

1.  Coiled magnet containing a pendulum.

The claims would NOT be separate:

1.  Containing a magnet coil
2.  Containing a pendulum inside the magent coil.

So you see, if you come in and invent a PPM device that has a hammer inside a coiled magnet, you would simply claim the hammer inside the coiled magnet.  Just because someone else used a coiled magnet does not prevent you from getting your idea patented.

What you do typically see is alot of "dependent" claims attached to "independent" claims, and this can lead to confusion, but always remember that if you can differentiate your independent claim, the claims that depend on it will not apply to you.  And with independent claims, each combination of dependent and independent claim is its own separate invention.  For example:

Claim 1:  Coiled magnet with pendulum inside.      (This is the independent claim.)
Claim 2.  Claim 1 above, in addition to which the entire apparatus is placed inside a sealed chamber filled with helium.

So based on above, if you invented a coiled magnet with a hammer inside, and then you decided to place the entire device inside a helium-filled chamber, you would not be barred from doing so, because the dependent claim must be considered in conjunction with the independent claim, and since your independent claim differs, the dependent claim does not apply to you.

Now all this is a gross oversimplification, but I hope you get the idea of how claims work.  You cannot just claim each component individually and prevent others from using your components.  You claim the entire device.

Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8365
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 02:07:36 AM »
Shrugged:

In my example in an earlier post, the ceramic springs were part of an assembly.  The patent covered the assembly and all of the components such that we received a cease and desist order to stop manufacturing and selling our springs.  We beat it because they still could not make even one, and we provided proof that we made the ones they submitted to get the patent and, we had been making and selling them for 8 years prior to their application.

My point is, you said that they would not issue a patent on the parts of a device, just a device.  But, in this case they (Patent Office) did exactly that.  And our Patent attorney said that ALL people seeking patents for ANY technological device had to submit three working examples or the patent application would not even be considered.  I read what Hans said about not requiring that but was our attorney that misinformed?  He charged us over $10,000 to initiate the application process and that was back in the early 80's.  I would have hoped he knew what he was talking about, but, I work with attorneys all the time now and, if I ask three of them a question, I get three different answers. I'm just curious.  Thanks.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 02:07:36 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2007, 02:38:49 AM »
Shrugged:

In my example in an earlier post, the ceramic springs were part of an assembly.  The patent covered the assembly and all of the components such that we received a cease and desist order to stop manufacturing and selling our springs.  We beat it because they still could not make even one, and we provided proof that we made the ones they submitted to get the patent and, we had been making and selling them for 8 years prior to their application.

My point is, you said that they would not issue a patent on the parts of a device, just a device.  But, in this case they (Patent Office) did exactly that.  And our Patent attorney said that ALL people seeking patents for ANY technological device had to submit three working examples or the patent application would not even be considered.  I read what Hans said about not requiring that but was our attorney that misinformed?  He charged us over $10,000 to initiate the application process and that was back in the early 80's.  I would have hoped he knew what he was talking about, but, I work with attorneys all the time now and, if I ask three of them a question, I get three different answers. I'm just curious.  Thanks.

Bill

I am not technically a patent attorney, and I have done no patent litigation and have not submitted any patents.  However, I have worked with other attorneys on analyzing specific patents for various purposes, and I have done infringement and prior art analyses, but there are many things I do not know.  Still, I have not heard of having to have a working prototype in order to get a patent.  Maybe this applies to perpetual motion devices only.

Offline Prophmaji

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2007, 02:49:43 AM »
physical models or outside (patent office choice of people 'versed in the art') replication can be and sometimes is requested, by the patent office on what they may designate, after investigation... to be 'dubious claims'.

So, it specifically depends on if the USPTO thinks you are full of shit or not.

And I don't have to be psychic, Hans, to note that Omni seems to have taken a real shining to you. I'm not really seeing you be an asshole, here. I think Omni needs to go in for at least a small amount of therapy. First he must be willing to understand that he has obvious issues.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 03:58:42 AM by Prophmaji »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2007, 02:49:43 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2007, 04:40:06 AM »
I can't imagine that any working models of this patent were produced:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5052638

An electromagnetic ramjet propulsion system is provided for accelerating high mass payloads through the upper atomsphere at orbital velocities. The propulsion system comprises a plurality of coplaner self-supporting superconducting dipole coils several hundred meters in diameter that is initially accelerated to high altitude and supersonic speed by magnetic repulsive forces generated by a plurality of superconducting field coils several kilometers in diameter embeded beneath the earth's surface. The ramjet is accelerated to orbital velocities by a multigigawatt microwave beam that is transmitted from the earth's surface. A reflecting grid of conducting wires is mounted inside the inner dipole which shock ionizes the low dentisy atmospheric gas passing through it. The frequency of the microwave beam is adjusted to produce electron cyclotron resonance with the free electrons passing through the magnetic field of the dipoles thereby accelerating them away from the dipoles by magnetic...


Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 05:35:17 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven
Listen, you moron, you're a nobody and have no right to disrespect a federal agency such as the US Patent Office and its decisions. If you disagree there are courts and you may challenge the decisions of the US Paten Office there. Spewing utter crap in the forums only shows what a mean little twerp you are. Stop cluttering the interesting discussion with your politely arrogant gibberish.

Everyone has the right AND the duty to challenge all decisions made by every decision making authority in this country.

This includes the US Patent Office.

It's called freedom... and in case someone has forgotten, it is our right here in this country to do so.

Having a 'shut up' and 'respect an institution above all else' attitude here does no one any good... including you!   

We MUST and SHOULD discuss rulings made here... 

If we stop discussing, then there can be no change... and there can be no improvement to the human condition.

FB


You are proposing anarchy and anarchy isn?t freedom. Read above, did I propose not to challenge decisions made by decision making authorities in this country, including the US Patent Office? Of course not. There?s a way, however, to challenge such decisions in a country such as ours which isn?t governed by anarchy. Politely arrogant self-proclaimed experts such as @hansvonlieven cowardly try to belittle decisions of the US decision-making authorities in a forum like this where it is safe to do so. He  must face the reality, however. The US Patent Office has protected machines which are a perpetuum mobile and that fact cannot be erased by anyone popping-up in a forum, no matter how uncomfortable this is for him. If this really bothers @hansvonlieven he should amend it where it?s done?in the courts and not subversively try to undermine the legal status of this problem.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 05:35:17 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ForeverBlissed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 05:56:24 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven
Listen, you moron, you're a nobody and have no right to disrespect a federal agency such as the US Patent Office and its decisions. If you disagree there are courts and you may challenge the decisions of the US Paten Office there. Spewing utter crap in the forums only shows what a mean little twerp you are. Stop cluttering the interesting discussion with your politely arrogant gibberish.

Everyone has the right AND the duty to challenge all decisions made by every decision making authority in this country.

This includes the US Patent Office.

It's called freedom... and in case someone has forgotten, it is our right here in this country to do so.

Having a 'shut up' and 'respect an institution above all else' attitude here does no one any good... including you!   

We MUST and SHOULD discuss rulings made here... 

If we stop discussing, then there can be no change... and there can be no improvement to the human condition.

FB


You are proposing anarchy and anarchy isn?t freedom. Read above, did I propose not to challenge decisions made by decision making authorities in this country, including the US Patent Office? Of course not. There?s a way, however, to challenge such decisions in a country such as ours which isn?t governed by anarchy. Politely arrogant self-proclaimed experts such as @hansvonlieven cowardly try to belittle decisions of the US decision-making authorities in a forum like this where it is safe to do so. He  must face the reality, however. The US Patent Office has protected machines which are a perpetuum mobile and that fact cannot be erased by anyone popping-up in a forum, no matter how uncomfortable this is for him. If this really bothers @hansvonlieven he should amend it where it?s done?in the courts and not subversively try to undermine the legal status of this problem.

Since I am the one that wrote the paragraphs, I am certain that I know what I was discussing.

And I can ASSURE you that I am NOT discussing anarchy.

I'm talking about thinking and not following blindly.  I'm talking about questioning authority.   I'm talking about using our brains for something other than a 'me too' device.

Since when does thinking and questioning equate to anarchy?

You clearly are not following my point.

FB

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2007, 06:20:20 AM »
The US patent office has recognised many unworkable devices, their judgement is NOT definitive as to the workability of anything. Even an uneducated blithering idiot like you should see that.

Hans von Lieven
Listen, you moron, you're a nobody and have no right to disrespect a federal agency such as the US Patent Office and its decisions. If you disagree there are courts and you may challenge the decisions of the US Paten Office there. Spewing utter crap in the forums only shows what a mean little twerp you are. Stop cluttering the interesting discussion with your politely arrogant gibberish.

Everyone has the right AND the duty to challenge all decisions made by every decision making authority in this country.

This includes the US Patent Office.

It's called freedom... and in case someone has forgotten, it is our right here in this country to do so.

Having a 'shut up' and 'respect an institution above all else' attitude here does no one any good... including you!   

We MUST and SHOULD discuss rulings made here... 

If we stop discussing, then there can be no change... and there can be no improvement to the human condition.

FB


You are proposing anarchy and anarchy isn?t freedom. Read above, did I propose not to challenge decisions made by decision making authorities in this country, including the US Patent Office? Of course not. There?s a way, however, to challenge such decisions in a country such as ours which isn?t governed by anarchy. Politely arrogant self-proclaimed experts such as @hansvonlieven cowardly try to belittle decisions of the US decision-making authorities in a forum like this where it is safe to do so. He  must face the reality, however. The US Patent Office has protected machines which are a perpetuum mobile and that fact cannot be erased by anyone popping-up in a forum, no matter how uncomfortable this is for him. If this really bothers @hansvonlieven he should amend it where it?s done?in the courts and not subversively try to undermine the legal status of this problem.

Since I am the one that wrote the paragraphs, I am certain that I know what I was discussing.

And I can ASSURE you that I am NOT discussing anarchy.

I'm talking about thinking and not following blindly.  I'm talking about questioning authority.   I'm talking about using our brains for something other than a 'me too' device.

Since when does thinking and questioning equate to anarchy?

You clearly are not following my point.

FB

No, you're not following my point. Don't follow blindly, question authority but abide by the law. Otherwise it's anarchy. Legal matters such as whether US Patent Office should recognize perpetuum mobile, as it obviously does, should only be questioned in court and not by violating the laws of the country, subversively and cowardly belittling the decisions of USPO in a forum such as this as  @hansvonlieven does. Violation of the laws isn't freedom. Otherwise criminals would be the freest people around.

Offline acp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2007, 10:23:34 AM »
Quote
Violation of the laws isn't freedom. Otherwise criminals would be the freest people around.

Apparently violation of the laws is freedom and the biggest criminals are free. Just look at your government.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2007, 10:25:55 AM »
Quote
Violation of the laws isn't freedom. Otherwise criminals would be the freest people around.

Apparently violation of the laws is freedom and the biggest criminals are free. Just look at your government.
PRove it in court. Until then no one is a criminal.

 

OneLink