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Author Topic: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile  (Read 50093 times)

Offline ForeverBlissed

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #105 on: October 16, 2007, 01:25:25 AM »
Wow!

This thread has really degraded fairly quickly into smelling like the armpits of human existence.

Frankly, I'm impressed with how quickly we were able to get from patents to prejudice.

Maybe we should write a new book using this thread as the starting point?

Instead of "Pride and Prejudice"... we would do, "Patents and Prejudice".

Who knows... it might sell a hundred copies!

Shirley, we cun do bedder dan dis.

FB



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Pirate88179

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #106 on: October 16, 2007, 01:30:25 AM »
@ForeverBlisse:

Agreed 100%

Bill

Offline Freenrg4me

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2007, 01:38:04 AM »
Dearest Bill,

A comma before the word and? I think they covered that in forth grade didn't they?

I quoted racist Zionist and that is not propaganda, that is historical fact.

I think that it is funny that some of you are too stupid to realize that I am not a racist. It is like you can't comprehend what you read. Quite the opposite is true but you filter out reality with your id based ego, your own racist views or the mind control propaganda that you are fed every day through the media.

Is it your filter on reality that someone else pointed out earlier or a reading comprehension problem?

I keep waiting for someone to go back, read all the posts and say, oops!

I seriously can't stop laughing about this. Snap into reality! Read and comprehend with an open, unfiltered mind the posts. It is like black is white, up is down with some of you people.

Enjoy you day Bill.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2007, 01:38:04 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #108 on: October 16, 2007, 01:50:40 AM »
@Freenrg4me:

Yes, welcome to the world of the educated.  I also have a degree in journalism and the comma before "and" is optional and accepted.  But, you might not know this as it would require reading, and learning, etc.  Hey, I put a comma before etc.  This too is optional.  And, (Hey, I started a sentence with the word "and", which is accepted but frowned upon.) if we all are "too stupid" to understand you, why do you keep posting this crap on a scientific site?  As I said before, at the risk of repeating myself, why don't we go back to overunity?  Unless, you think we are too stupid for that also. (Hey, I ended the sentence with the word "also".  This too is accepted but not used very often as it can appear to be awkward.)

Bill

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #109 on: October 16, 2007, 02:20:35 AM »
Question is, regarding reexamination, what constitutes prior art? Can the fact that Science denies the workability of such machines (and therefore they cannot be new and useful as the law requires) be prior art? If it can, it would be newly discovered prior art regarding the patent in question (and all related prior patents, of course) which should render the patent invalid. What do you think?.

The prior art can indeed be newly discovered.  However, the prior art itself must of course predate the patent filing date, preferably by a few months.

There is a whole body of law on what is and what is not prior art, and I am not an expert, but generally speaking, any type of publicly published information or built devices that show the same concept would qualify.  Private letters, documents and conversations generally do not count.  Sadly, the fact that the laws of physics or other branches of science render the device impossible would not constitute prior art.  Still, if you want to smack this patent, find a similar device from an earlier time.  Just be prepared for a fight.  Patent holders can be very creative in differentiating their ideas.
See, the point is that revoking te patent isn't my intention. My intention, as I said at the beginning, is to smoke out the person claiming perpetuum mobile and have him demonstrate in flesh in blood what he has patented (which if he doesn't do should, of course, lead to invalidation of the patent). Some of us here have a lot of experience with such "discoverers" who flash their devices only to disappear later. Recall Torbay, Mike Brady (Perendev), Steorn, Danny from Ohio, several Canadian dudes, etc. etc. Steorn and the like, for instance, ask you to sign a NDA which is similar to killing the possibility to uncover the truth. Here in this case we have involvement of an official governmental organization paid for by our taxes which is backing (protecting) claims for perpetuum mobile. That's a whole new level of the story. Government must be accountable brfore its citizens, musn't it? It cannot hide behind NDA's and must abide by its own laws. The problem now is to find the exact avenue to pursue this accountability.

Well, the name of the person who owns the patent is public information, so there is no need to smoke him out.  As far as having a working model, it is pretty apparent that there is no working model and can be no working model, so a demonstration is never going to happen.

The problem you face is that you have an agenda that almost no one in the PTO, the court system, or in the private sector cares about.  The USPTO cares about protecting inventions and not handing out patents for ideas already patented.  Patent holders similarly care about protecting their own inventions.  Organizations such as the ones you listed care about protecting others from patent trolls.  No one cares about nonworking patents, because they have no value and cause no harm to anyone.  Someone is just out $20K or whatever.  Sure, in an ideal world, with infinite resources, we would like to have enough patent examiners to be able to flush out nonworking ideas, but this is not critical to a well functioning patent system.

The big problem with patents right now is how easily they are granted on working, but non-original or relatively obvious ideas, and this is where patent reformers tend to focus their efforts.  Your complaint, while valid, is frankly not as pressing of a problem.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #109 on: October 16, 2007, 02:20:35 AM »
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Offline Freenrg4me

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #110 on: October 16, 2007, 03:01:45 AM »
As I said before, at the risk of repeating myself, why don't we go back to overunity?  Unless, you think we are too stupid for that also.

Dear Bill,

We were not on the subject of free energy, we were on the subject of patent office corruption. Please try to follow along.

As to the subject of over unity, which by the way is two words, I think that is a grand idea. My first post was all about trying to get you to do just that. Remember that part about "I think you are all right some of the time"??? The post was about getting people to stop arguing over what can not be solved and has no place in a open source community anyway.

A patent attorney plying these waters? Don't think for a second I didn't know that I would get a response from her or her friend omnibus, who sounds like he works for the government from his posts. It is important for us to take time to drive people away that have no place here.

For example, my friend Hans posted a link for the resonate frequency of the elements in a thread I have been posting in. Just one problem, the link and associated article are for elements that do not exist. Is that being helpful? For a person that claims to be so intelligent... I guess he didn't take the time to read it.

It was in relation to my noticing that the barium core of Dr. Stiffler was almost a perfect resonate multiple of hydrogen (H1).

Last week I replicated Dr. Stifflers CREC circuit and designed a mark space circuit for the "Dave cell" that uses phase lock loops and a 4017 divide by ten for a rock solid pulse generator.

I am working on OU Bill, I am also hard at work running off the shills, intellectual property thieves, ambulance chasers and what ever else seems to impede progress.

What did you build? You said in an earlier post something to the effect that you had to choose between buying a bearing and eating. Hard times for a well educated journalist?

I have no malice for you, Hans or anyone else on this board. Freenrg4me is a made up user name, it is not who I am. No aspect of my ego is insulted by anything you or anyone else says to that cyber name. It has no approval needs nor do I.

Well I discovered that high voltage could be amplified by 1000% using a barium magnet today and I am off to play with that. If you post again in regards to me, I will be back tomorrow.

Enjoy you day.

PS - Kentucky is a beautiful state and I have been through there several times. I am sure it is spectacular with the fall colors on the trees this time of year.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #111 on: October 16, 2007, 03:28:50 AM »
@Freenry4me:

I never said I was a journalist.  I said I also have a degree in journalism.  I have no need to choose between food and a bearing, I think you are confusing me with someone else.  It is true that money is very tight for me right now, but I have seen fortunes come, and go, and I am not too worried about it. I have over 18 years as a design engineer, specifically dealing with precision ceramic machining for the defense, aerospace and electronics industries.

I am a licenced Private Investigator and own and operate Tactical Investigations.  I see no need to post any further information about my resume.

Yes, it is beautiful here in Kentucky, although it just, as of the last few days, has cooled below 90 and almost feels like fall.

Yes, over unity is two words, but not if you don't hit the space bar when typing them.  This is sometimes refereed to as a "typo".

Yes, this thread is about the US Patent Office, but I said this "forum" meaning the entire forum.  This thread is also not entitled "How the Jews are destroying the world."

And, if you think that ShruggedAtlas and Omnibus are friends, you have obviously not read very many other posts on the other threads.  After doing so, you may want to choose to rephrase that.

I don't think that anyone is here to attempt to destroy progress, or stop over unity experimentation, including you.  I find the Patent Office posts, those that stick to the subject matter, very educational and informative.  If you feel differently, then fine, feel free to do so.  This is my last response to ANY person's racist, conspiracy, U.S. bashing posts on this thread.  It has nothing to do with the topic, and sadly, neither does this reply.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #111 on: October 16, 2007, 03:28:50 AM »
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Offline Freenrg4me

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #112 on: October 16, 2007, 05:53:08 AM »
@Freenry4me:

I never said I was a journalist. I said I also have a degree in journalism. I have no need to choose between food and a bearing, I think you are confusing me with someone else. It is true that money is very tight for me right now, but I have seen fortunes come, and go, and I am not too worried about it. I have over 18 years as a design engineer, specifically dealing with precision ceramic machining for the defense, aerospace and electronics industries.

I am a licenced Private Investigator and own and operate Tactical Investigations. I see no need to post any further information about my resume.

Yes, it is beautiful here in Kentucky, although it just, as of the last few days, has cooled below 90 and almost feels like fall.

Yes, over unity is two words, but not if you don't hit the space bar when typing them. This is sometimes refereed to as a "typo".

Yes, this thread is about the US Patent Office, but I said this "forum" meaning the entire forum. This thread is also not entitled "How the Jews are destroying the world."

And, if you think that ShruggedAtlas and Omnibus are friends, you have obviously not read very many other posts on the other threads. After doing so, you may want to choose to rephrase that.

I don't think that anyone is here to attempt to destroy progress, or stop over unity experimentation, including you. I find the Patent Office posts, those that stick to the subject matter, very educational and informative. If you feel differently, then fine, feel free to do so. This is my last response to ANY person's racist, conspiracy, U.S. bashing posts on this thread. It has nothing to do with the topic, and sadly, neither does this reply.

Bill


"I have no need to choose between food and a bearing, I think you are confusing me with someone else."


Dear Bill,

For the record...

"P-Motion:

I understand that. I know exactly what you mean. Some people say that "all you need to try it is this and that" and what they might not understand is "this and that" cost money. Let's see...should I eat today or buy that bearing that I want? It would be a lot easier with a government grant or reasearch allotment. but, they only give those to people with connections and no real ideas on how to do anything. (personal opinion) Let's continue to swap ideas and experiment results. It may not end up meaning anything but, it might mean everything."

I think you are the one that is confused. Enjoy your foot sandwich.

Now how about this one?

"And, if you think that ShruggedAtlas and Omnibus are friends, you have obviously not read very many other posts on the other threads. After doing so, you may want to choose to rephrase that."

For the record, if you could show me where I typed the user name "ShruggedAtlas" I would sure appreciate knowing where. I didn't think so. Confused? Perhaps you would like to "rephrase that."

Ooo! Got to love this tired old trick:

"This thread is also not entitled "How the Jews are destroying the world."

Bill, as someone with a "degree in journalism" surely knows, when you apply quote marks, you are quoting something that a person said. If you could just show me where I stated "How the Jews are destroying the world." I would sure appreciate it. Otherwise, we can just assume that you have done what you have been doing all along and that is misquoting, in a pathetic attempt to win an argument.

At this point, between your lies, misquotes and constant defamation you have reduced your credibility to zero.

And for the record Bill, I am not a racist. However after reading your many posts about "Islamic terrorist" and "Saddam nukes" I can see that you are a racist and not living in a real world. Were you pursuing free energy in those posts or just spewing your racist propaganda?

You never seem to argue the facts of what I said, you just slander me with your bumper sticker mentality in each post. How pathetic.

I assume that is you all dressed up in your Dick Tracy costume?

Tactical Investigations
William Ellis
2701 N. Mill Ave. Suite 72
Bowling Green, KY 42104
Phone: 270 202 4200
Fax: 270 846 3746

If I ever need a racist PI that can't seem to keep his facts straight or is not afraid to liable himself or blow his cover, you da man... If I ever need someone with a degree in journalism that constantly misquotes someone, again, you are my first pick Dick.

I will hold you to your words "this is my last response to ANY person's racist, conspiracy, U.S. bashing posts on this thread."

Negative judgment is self judgment. Perhaps you could find a therapist to explain what projection means. Here are a few more of your racist and delusional posts.

This is not a political forum so I will hold the rest of my thoughts for now, except to say that anyone that lives here that thinks the way Prophmaji does thinks needs to leave, we won't stop him. (One of our freedoms)  and if he already lives in another country...good stay there, we don't need you.
I respect your opinion but I have to say that you need to study history and obtain more information. Iraq was training terrorists, and seeking nuclear weapons and shooting at our aircraft patrolling the no fly zone. The major source of the insurgency is soldiers from Iran...yes, army regulars in uniform and most others dressed as civilians. We don't really have a beef with the Iraqi people anymore, but that is not who is fighting us now. To anyone who knows the history of the gulf war, the Iraq war is nothing but an extension of that.  They surrendered...remember that?  They agreed to the surrender conditions...weapons inspectors, no fly zone, etc.  They violated that many, many times...so to me, that means the peace is over...but you don't agree?  If Japan surrendered unconditionally as they did in WWII, and suddenly started shooting at our boats at sea, do you think the surrender terms should still be in force?  Oh, and in case you don't know this...we still have troops in Japan and Germany.  Why can't we bring them home?  It's been over 4 years now? Study your history more and then you will see.  This is a science forum and I don't want to clutter it up with political stuff.  I have said my piece, and you have said yours and maybe, we can at least agree to disagree.

Bill


What is the evil? You have to be kidding me, right? When you have the majority of radical Islamic leaders stating that their mission is to convert the world to Islam or, if they can't convert, to kill the infidels. (That's us) Sounds evil to me. Are you planning on converting? I'm not. Please note that I am not speaking of all of Islam, only the radical extremists that are dedicating their lives to the death of us and our way of life. Anyway, that is what I meant by my quote in the above post.

Bill


@bourne:

I hate to get political on this forum but, you leave me no choice when you post such ignorant "facts".  "All the troops out of Iraq now"...yes..that will solve everything.  Terrorists will just go away and leave everyone alone.  It was EXACTLY this kind of thinking that allowed a failed house painter to destroy half of Europe.  Remember Nevel Chaimberlin?  That was his attitude and what did it bring?  Or, do you not know your history? I am against war, I HATE all war, but, when you are up against people that live to destroy you and your way of life, you have no choice.


I don't want to argue this on here, you have your opinion and I have expressed mine. We both have the right to do so because a lot of very brave men died for things they too believed in. I am an American but my ancestry is from Europe in the 1800's.  I wish there were not evil in the world, but there is.  I will leave you with a quote..."Evil triumps when good men do nothing." Peace.

Bill


Hans:
Those have been around since I was a kid...(long time ago ha ha) I remember playing around with one when my Father worked at Bell Labs in NJ.  This is what he is talking about?  The "big" break-through? I am going to have to go back and read all of the posts on this but, if this is really what it is........let China have this "advanced" technology.

Bill


I will learn yet another thing not to do.  I have spent most of my life learning what not to do.  Why should I stop now? (smile)


Maybe you will learn not to misquote and slander me? I doubt it, you can't fix stupid. God knows I have tried.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #113 on: October 16, 2007, 07:19:57 AM »
G'day all except Freenrg4me,

Let us just ignore that idiot and NOT respond to anything he says. This way he will be isolated and piss off eventually. At the moment we are all playing into his hands and empower him to spew his venom whenever he feels he ought to.

If we are lucky he will somehow upset the wrong people and wind up getting certified, he sure sounds as if he needs it.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #113 on: October 16, 2007, 07:19:57 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #114 on: October 16, 2007, 07:47:45 AM »
@shruggedatlas,

Quote
Well, the name of the person who owns the patent is public information, so there is no need to smoke him out.
I disagree there?s no such need. As I said, the names of other ?inventors? such as the already mentioned Torbay, Brady etc. are also publicly known but there?s no way to make them demonstrate what they claim. On the other hand, USPTO is an official agency which, at least during the process of examination, can do that. As a matter of fact, try to find Frank Fecera?s phone number and see how easy it is. Try to phone him and see if you can get anything else but a phone message. As I said, the experience many of us have is that these people are better skilled in hiding than in being true to their words. USPTO shouldn?t assist them in that.

Quote
As far as having a working model, it is pretty apparent that there is no working model and can be no working model, so a demonstration is never going to happen.
Now, that?s not apparent at all. There?s a patent granted and the patent law requires that the patent is for something new and useful. Patent for something non-working, as described in the patent, isn?t useful.

Quote
The problem you face is that you have an agenda that almost no one in the PTO, the court system, or in the private sector cares about.  The USPTO cares about protecting inventions and not handing out patents for ideas already patented.
Again, that?s not what the law says. The law says that the patent has to be about something new and useful. Something that doesn?t work as described isn?t something useful as intended.

Quote
Patent holders similarly care about protecting their own inventions.  Organizations such as the ones you listed care about protecting others from patent trolls.  No one cares about nonworking patents, because they have no value and cause no harm to anyone.  Someone is just out $20K or whatever.  Sure, in an ideal world, with infinite resources, we would like to have enough patent examiners to be able to flush out nonworking ideas, but this is not critical to a well functioning patent system.
I already commented on this. It isn?t true that non-working patents cause no harm to anyone. To grant a patent for a non-working device is to abuse the system. Abusing the system is harmful to everyone. It is also unlawful in the most direct sense?non-working patents do not protect anything useful as the law requires.

Quote
The big problem with patents right now is how easily they are granted on working, but non-original or relatively obvious ideas, and this is where patent reformers tend to focus their efforts.  Your complaint, while valid, is frankly not as pressing of a problem.
You?re right, this is what appears to be the primary goal of the mentioned organizations so far. Undeserved patents and unsound patent policy have wider meaning, though.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2007, 07:49:37 AM »
Hans:

I agree. I admit I fell into that ratrace.  While I appreciate my business contact information being posted on here, I don't feel that this is the proper place for me to obtain international exposure for my personal gain.  My apologies to Stephan and all the other members.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2007, 07:49:37 AM »
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Offline fritz

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #116 on: October 18, 2007, 11:47:59 PM »
Just to round it up:

If it comes to "free energy" - there will be no (worldwide)patents at all.
Can you patent the sun, the moon, the earth,
can you patent water ? no.
Maybe there will be national patents and global agreements.
Can somebody release a patent on the kaplan turbine or on the
idea of a storage lake ? no.
Is there a patent on nuclear power stations ?
Maybe there are patents on special equippement and techniques used.....

we?ll see.

BTW: I think the most interesting thing on the availab?lity of free energy are
the economic and social effects.

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2007, 04:37:27 AM »
Again, that?s not what the law says. The law says that the patent has to be about something new and useful. Something that doesn?t work as described isn?t something useful as intended.

To my knowledge, there is no case law requiring patents to be about something useful.  New, yes; useful, no.

Offline shruggedatlas

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2007, 04:40:00 AM »
On a related note, here is a good article explaining a big problem with the current patent system.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/07/AR2007100701199_pf.html

Offline Omnibus

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Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2007, 05:06:45 AM »
Again, that?s not what the law says. The law says that the patent has to be about something new and useful. Something that doesn?t work as described isn?t something useful as intended.

To my knowledge, there is no case law requiring patents to be about something useful.  New, yes; useful, no.
Not so. See what Consolidated Patent Laws state:

35 U.S.C.101 Inventions patentable.
Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful
process,machine,manufacture,or composition of
matter,or any new and useful improvement thereof,
may obtain a patent therefor,subject to the conditions
and requirements of this title.

 

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