Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83680
  • *Latest: dnz007

  • *Total Posts: 516043
  • *Total Topics: 15381
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 14
  • *Total: 18

Author Topic: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile  (Read 50121 times)

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« on: October 09, 2007, 03:26:35 PM »
How come the US Patent Office has granted patents for perpetuum mobile while the mainstream Science says it?s impossible. Either the US Patent Office are non-scientific or there is something wrong with mainstream Science (which is a public secret).

See the latest US patent for a perpetuum mobile that I know of: http://www.google.com/patents?id=LREWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=6,867,514#PPA1,M1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 04:17:46 PM »
How come the US Patent Office has granted patents for perpetuum mobile while the mainstream Science says it?s impossible. Either the US Patent Office are non-scientific or there is something wrong with mainstream Science (which is a public secret).

See the latest US patent for a perpetuum mobile that I know of: http://www.google.com/patents?id=LREWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=6,867,514#PPA1,M1
You are quick to criticize the USPTO for something that is not its responsibility.

While it is true that the patent office has been reluctant to issue patents on perpetual motion machines, it has never been the primary purpose of the patent office to verify functionality of the applicants' inventions.  The purpose of patents is to provide protection for the inventor, and so the patent office works primarily to verify that there is no prior art.  And if the inventor ends up with a patent on an unworkable device, well, he is still protected at least, so the patent does its job.

Anyway, does this thing even claim to be perpetual motion?  I did not read it in entirety.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 04:36:03 PM »
@shruggedatlas,

Quote
The purpose of patents is to provide protection for the inventor
So you seem to call ?inventor? even someone who would propose nonsense. Unworkable devices are nonsense, correct?

And, it seems to be OK with you that such creators of nonsense are protected by the US Government?

I don?t believe that US Patent Office would agree that its primary business is to protect just anything, nonsense or not.

Quote
Anyway, does this thing even claim to be perpetual motion?  I did not read it in entirety.
Read the claims, Read the description of the proposed examples.

Read this: ?There are many instances where a motor action is required and no source of external power is available. Accordingly, a motor which relies solely on the energy stored in permanent magnets would be useful.? Do you still doubt that it?s a patent for perpetuum mobile?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 04:36:03 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 04:40:16 PM »
There should be a way to smoke out the creators of nonsense who use the gullibility of some clerk to get the umbrella of the US Government.And, if it isn't nonsens there should be a way to make them prove it. These underhanded games are not in the best interest of the American people, don't you agree?

Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 05:46:39 PM »
There should be a way to smoke out the creators of nonsense who use the gullibility of some clerk to get the umbrella of the US Government.And, if it isn't nonsens there should be a way to make them prove it. These underhanded games are not in the best interest of the American people, don't you agree?

First of all, I want to tell you that I respect your intentions.  Honesty and integrity are noble goals.

However, what you must realize is that the American people do not look to the patent system as a validation system, only a protection system.  If someone has an unworkable patent, who does he hurt besides himself?  There are private scientific journals and organizations for those who want to share proven theory - the patent office is not the place for that, and everyone knows it, at least everyone who needs to know.

In the end, what you propose is prohibitively expensive and time consuming.  It already takes years and thousands of dollars to get a patent approved, and that is only with the examiners doing prior art searches.  Can you imagine how much more costly and time consuming patents would be if the examiner had the burden of establishing beyond doubt that the invention actually works?  Would you be willing to pay 5 times more for a granted patent?

As far as I know, the American system is not unique but is fairly typical.  WIPO (www.wipo.int), for example, does not verify function.  How does it work in your country?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 05:46:39 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 05:57:32 PM »
withdrawn (misclick)

Offline argona369

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 06:56:02 PM »
What about the ?broadness? of a patent.
I.e., someone says they have a free energy device. patented of course.
It has a coil of wire and a magnet bobbing around ?somewhere?
inside with a mess of other parts.

Someone else then invents a ?Real? free energy device,
It too has a coil of wire and a magnet bobbing around in it, but
none of the ?other parts?.

The first person says ?hey the bobbing magnet and coil part is the free energy source?
So your patent infringes on mine.

yes or no?

Ps, I think there?s lots of ?free energy? patents with coils and magnets.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 07:56:44 PM by argona369 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 06:56:02 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 07:28:29 PM »
I am trying to reproduce this recent patent, and from my recent FEMM simulations at the end of the thread, it should work:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2963.0

Offline ForeverBlissed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 07:37:05 PM »
What bothers me about the patent is that it is so broad it actually covers some of the way an SEG works.

If you look at http://www.searlsolution.com/evidence2.html or download the PDF paper at http://www.searlsolution.com/documents/russianseg.pdf and read it, you will see that V. V. Roschin and S. M. Godin used a similar magnetic configuration when they did their verification experiments at Institute for High Temperatures, Russian Academy of Science when testing John Searl's SEG.  (see http://youtube.com/watch?v=a-O7WNvKSvY and http://youtube.com/watch?v=46gRnzI2os0&mode=related&search= for a prototype that was used as a testing mechanism in April of this year)

It is known that John Searl uses a 'magnetic wave effect' imprinted on his SEG plates and rollers.  This coupled with his high frequency current superimposed on top of the standard direct current while magnetizing his neodynium magnets produces a similar nnn-nns-ssn-nss-snn wave effect that appears to be taken advantaged of in the patent mentioned in this thread.

But I say 'screw patents'... bring on the SEG! 

It's time has come.

FB



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 07:37:05 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 08:25:20 PM »
Thanks a lot for your reply. For once, to meet an intelligent person to discuss these important matters.

First off, my country is the United States and, therefore, I?m most concerned with the system there.

I already said that I don?t believe that the US Patent Office would agree that it would be used to protect nonsense. On the contrary, I think that a US patent is something serious and no one should take it lightly if there is even the slightest trace of fraud. Especially when not just any claim but an earth-shaking claim such as a perpetuum mobile which isn?t real is to be protected. I?m sure there must be a way to require from the Patent Office to withdraw its protection if this particular claim cannot be sustained by the ?inventor?. If he can sustain it all power to him, otherwise it would be a travesty of the system to concede that such situation is normal. It puts into question the integrity of the whole system and in this respect I don?t think that such ?inventor? is only hurting himself. This hurts my interests as well as yours. Never mind how expensive it may get, a system must have protective fuse against fraud. Keeping an army, police, prisons etc. is also expensive for us the tax-payers but these do exist to maintain the integrity of a country. Other US institutions also take their business seriously and, I guess, the US Patent Office should be one of them.

I wonder what you mean by private scientific journals and organizations who want to share proven theories. As far as I know all countries, US included, have academies of sciences and governmental institutions deciding ultimately the fate of scientific matters. Private enterprises doing business with science are only extensions of the core organizations which are governmental. If the British Royal Society doesn?t have the final say on important matters of science and allows private cuckoo-organizations to take over with bogus theories this will ultimately weaken the country and its rival, say France, will celebrate. I don?t think the British ruling class will be happy with that. It most certainly won?t and that?s the reason there?s British Royal Society, not a sect or a private think-tank, deciding on what is or isn?t in science. This was just an example.

I?d like to find out how the truth will prevail both in Science (which also has similar problems) and in the US Patent Office which should not be in disparity.

Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8365
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 09:09:31 PM »
Interesting discussion.  I have only had two brushes with the US Patent office, the first, when my Father and I attempted to patent out ceramic springs, and 6 years later, to invalidate a patent on the ceramic springs that claimed we were infringing.

They turned our application down because they said it was not a "significant improvement" over the current metal springs available. (Which is stupid based upon the properties of the partially stabilized zirconium oxide they were made from...nonmetallic, nonmagnetic, not affected by acids, can perform at high temps, 3,000 f, stable spring rate over vast temp. ranges, and not subject to metal fatigue, to name a few.)  At the time of the application, we were told we had to submit working samples.  We did.  It was turned down.  Another corporation, a very large one, was one of our customers at the time.  They ordered 6 springs from us as they could not make them, we were the only ones in the world at that time who could.  They submitted them to the Patent office and got their patent using our springs as working samples.  We beat the "cease and desist" order easily for several reasons.

Anyway, I tell you this because it was my understanding that you could not just patent an idea for a device, you had to build the device and provide records of it's intended performance as outlined in the patent.  The patent attorney told us that someone could not just submit a broad idea for an invention without first producing at least 3 working devices that would be inspected.  So how are these people now just obtaining patents on wild ideas that may or may not ever work?

My experience was about 20 years ago or so.  Have the Patent laws changed since then so you no longer have to provide a working model? If so, then I think patents are even more useless than I did previously.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 09:09:31 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline hansvonlieven

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2558
    • Keelytech
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 10:01:20 PM »
G'day Bill,

The US patent office, since its inception has granted patents for the most idiotic and unworkable devices. Have a look at how many permanent motor designs have been patented over the years. None of them work. The Jesse Mc Queen patent is another case in point. Pure speculative gibberish.

see:   http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3130.0/topicseen.html

The common misconception is that you require a working prototype in order to get a patent. This is not so, in fact it never was. The truth is that the patent office MAY require the applicant to furnish a prototype in order to get the patent.

This is only very rarely done, usually only to people whose application is so patently idiotic that it is clear it will never work. It is one way to refuse a patent without having to refuse it. (Like in the case of the Robert Jackson applications where, according to Jackson, they DID ask to be shown a working prototype.)

Hans von Lieven

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 10:35:05 PM »
G'day Bill,

The US patent office, since its inception has granted patents for the most idiotic and unworkable devices. Have a look at how many permanent motor designs have been patented over the years. None of them work. The Jesse Mc Queen patent is another case in point. Pure speculative gibberish.

see:   http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3130.0/topicseen.html

The common misconception is that you require a working prototype in order to get a patent. This is not so, in fact it never was. The truth is that the patent office MAY require the applicant to furnish a prototype in order to get the patent.

This is only very rarely done, usually only to people whose application is so patently idiotic that it is clear it will never work. It is one way to refuse a patent without having to refuse it. (Like in the case of the Robert Jackson applications where, according to Jackson, they DID ask to be shown a working prototype.)

Hans von Lieven
Who are you to challenge the decision of the US Paten Office? Nobody.

Until the US Patent Office revokes that and the rest of the perpetuum mobile patents, or a judge decides against them you shoud stop spewing nonsense against the US Patent Office.

Offline hansvonlieven

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2558
    • Keelytech
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 10:44:07 PM »
The decisions of the US patent office have been overruled by the Courts on hundreds of occasions over the years. It is a matter of public record.

Hans von Lieven

Offline ForeverBlissed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: US Patent Office Has Granted Patents for Perpetuum Mobile
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 10:45:52 PM »
G'day Bill,

The US patent office, since its inception has granted patents for the most idiotic and unworkable devices. Have a look at how many permanent motor designs have been patented over the years. None of them work. The Jesse Mc Queen patent is another case in point. Pure speculative gibberish.

see:   http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3130.0/topicseen.html

The common misconception is that you require a working prototype in order to get a patent. This is not so, in fact it never was. The truth is that the patent office MAY require the applicant to furnish a prototype in order to get the patent.

This is only very rarely done, usually only to people whose application is so patently idiotic that it is clear it will never work. It is one way to refuse a patent without having to refuse it. (Like in the case of the Robert Jackson applications where, according to Jackson, they DID ask to be shown a working prototype.)

Hans von Lieven
Who are you to challenge the decision of the US Paten Office? Nobody.

Until the US Patent Office revokes that and the rest of the perpetuum mobile patents, or a judge decides against them you shoud stop spewing nonsense against the US Patent Office.

All hail the US Patent office!  1,2,3... let's bow down now.

Yes, they rule!  Yes, they have power!  Yes, they are our currently in charge of deciding who 'owns' something... (sic)

Bull Crap.

They are controlled by special interest just like any other governing body that has power and deals with people who have lots of money.

This same story line has been repeated so many times in human's history, it is amazing to me that we still find the plot interesting!

The US Patent office has done good... they've done bad... they're human... they screw up.

Because of this... they DESERVE to be challenged!

How many corporations have patented things that should not have been patented?

Amazon and their stupid one-click mess?

How about the company that patented our human genome?  (our DNA for kris's sake)

How about the crap the Joseph Newman has been going through?

Right... let's take up for our US patent office because they are infallible and cannot make mistakes.

I say, it's time to open source everything...

Let's make ALL knowledge OPEN SOURCE!!!!

FB





 

OneLink