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Author Topic: Another Design For Your Consideration  (Read 18788 times)

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2007, 09:24:12 PM »
I agree with Iron Head

You can draw all you want, but until you put it to the test. You will not know what is wrong or how to correct it. Even the computers can only give you an idea. Nature has it's own rules for us to obey. to use a line from a movies. One must learn how to obey nature before he can comand it.

If you can't do the work, try to find someone that can, and then if it works give them there share of the credit for what they will have to do to make it work, they will have earned it.

I put all my ideas to the test as soon as possible, and my version (that is quite a bit different than what has been drawn) should be done before winters end.

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2007, 09:24:12 PM »

Offline IronHead

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2007, 09:40:31 PM »
Best of luck "AB Hammer"  my respect goes to you as a builder.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:41:35 AM by IronHead »

Offline GraViTaR

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Soft Landing
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 06:23:18 AM »
The key to a ramp is a "soft" landing: like landing an airplane.

The wheel should initially contact the ramp as smoothly as possible. Then, once the wheel starts rolling down the ramp, the direction can be changed to shift the weight.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/HollywoodTom/gravwhipwheel3.jpg)

The roller unit catches a latch as it falls off the ramp at 6:00. A latch is desirable, rather than a continuation of the ramp as I showed in a different picture, because all the weight is held to the main wheel. A continuation of the ramp loses all that leverage by the friction of the roller going uphill and the weight of the roller unit trying to balance itself.

So now, when the descending roller gets to 9:00, the latch releases on the opposite end at 3:00. The descending roller gently glides onto the ramp and the rotation of the wheel is enough to get the roller unit to continue on the ramp and shift it's position to start the process once again.

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Soft Landing
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 06:23:18 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 02:34:41 PM »
Soft landing like an airplane  ???

Have you looked at the friction skid marks on a runway?

The ramp idea has been use many times with massive failure. But there is some merit in the arms. My other one uses arms but is allot different from yours even though I started with a similar design then I started to use the math and promply started changing it. But this simple version that has been tried by so many people, prompts me to make a device that can make this simple one work. For this reason I will bump it up to a couple of weeks from now and make it work. ;)

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2007, 04:50:06 AM »
Well the first step is done. I have drawn the blueprint using 2 sets of weights and the parts that will make it work. Now all I have to do is get some time to work on it, for I can't eat air to live on.


For us people that work so hard on a job. Then we work so we can work on a hobby :-\

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2007, 04:50:06 AM »
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Offline debra62140

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2007, 10:42:28 PM »

Hi everyone, I do find this subject fascinating, and I am trying to understand all the various designs and the principals behind them, but most seem quite complicated.

To help me understand the basics can someone please tell me where the wheel in the attached diagram would reach equilibrium? Apologies for the poor quality of the drawing.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Debbie

Offline fletcher

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2007, 12:32:39 AM »
Hi Debbie .. if you are not alreday familiar with the 'Museum of Unworkable Devices' I suggest that you spend some time there [it's very iinteresting] - there are many designs similar yours, that fail to work as anticipated, with thorough explanations as to why this happens - in essence, as your've drawn it, the wheel is over-balanced & will have a tendency to turn CCW, but not a full segment however - it will start out with positive torque then pass thru the neutral [zero] torque position then into negative torque which wants the wheel to then turn CW - eventually [depending on how much friction loss there is] the wheel settles at the 'keel' position [position of zero torque or position of least potential] - the static ramp/guide provides a 'back torque' to the wheel & like water finding its lowest level the wheel will oscillate until its finds its position of least resistance - it keels - while ramps & guides initially look good they force a sliding or pivoted weight to follow a predetermined path, often this involves lifting the weight to move it to a closer orbit - when the ramp does this the weight cannot apply its full weight as torque to the wheel [& applies it to the ramp instead] which is counterproductive to what you actually want to achieve - there are no free lunches where gravity is concerned !


http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2007, 12:32:39 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2007, 01:03:04 AM »
@fletcher:

I am no scientist but I have worked with many "gravity" wheels over the years and that was an excellent explanation of this design, and its shortfalls.  I would encourage anyone who thinks they have a workable design to follow through and try it, regardless of what others say about it on here, but, like my Dad always says, don't try to reinvent the wheel.  Meaning, that if others have tried a similar design, and it did not work, your efforts can be spent attempting another approach.  Most say that gravity wheels will never work, and they are right, so far.  They may always be right.  I still think that it will take a combination of several technologies, gravity, magnetism, etc., to make a design finally work.  And, this may not be possible either, but, we won't know that unless we try everything.  Best of luck to all.

Bill

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2007, 01:10:33 AM »
Well said fletcher

I could not have said it better, you put in words that I would have to have a model to express.


Pirate88179

Well I hope to prove them wrong, since I promiced to make this basic idea work, I am kinda on a fire.

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2007, 01:10:33 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2007, 07:59:36 AM »
has anyone considered the "ramp" as a "smot ramp",  would this not take away some of the friction problem?  even if it's replaced with lenz law complications, it might be worth some consideration.  at least you might be able to generate enough energy to the thing to keep it going?

lol
sam

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2007, 02:38:25 PM »
supersam

If you through a smot into this system, will the magnets be strong enough for a system? A magnet is a bandage on a cut throat when it come to larger mechanical devises. This design needs to be about 4 ft tall before it can have enough energy to run anything. Just the model I am building is only 2 ft tall for the test system I am building to make it work. It seems like every body has this basic idea, but not a working control devise. I have finalized one design and have played with about 4 others. each have there pluses. But how well, still remains to be seen.

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Re: Another Design For Your Consideration
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2007, 02:38:25 PM »
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