Author Topic: SMOT! - (previously about the OC MPMM) (Read 181192 times)

Omnibus · « **Reply #75 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:38:23 PM »

@tinu,

This incorrect. At B the ball has energy exactly (mgh1 + Mb) and nothing of the sorts you claim. Also, in going from A to B the ball loses magnetic potential energy, therefore, I'm not imparting magnetic potential energy into it. therefore, again, who has supplied the magnetic potential energy Mb by bringing the ball from C to B which the ball loses in going (free falling, as you say) from B to C.

Omnibus · « **Reply #76 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:40:07 PM »

@oak,

If you don't have anything to contribute, as you obviously don't, restrain from posting.

Omnibus · « **Reply #77 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:56:25 PM »

To understand that CoE can be violated, as is already definitively proven already, is crucial in this area of research. See what's going on with the endeavor we're discussing now. Someone in two youtube videos is accusing @alsetalonkin of outright fraud not questioning for one second that if there were no fraud and what we see in the video really happened without external energy input this would be a violation of CoE and @alsetalonkin seems to like what that guy says. This begs the question, if this is fraud, as @alsetalonkin doesn't seem to object, why are we all bothering to pursue replication of this? On the other hand, if it isn't fraud and @alsetalonkin is really observing what he's presenting for us to see in the video why is he so adamantly pressing this cannot be violation of CoE especially provided the fact that violation of CoE has already been confirmed beyond any doubt? Why doesn't he just stick with the engineering part and leave science where he isn't too versed to begin with? Weird, isn't it?

Low-Q · « **Reply #78 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:56:54 PM »

Quote from: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 08:48:20 PM

@Low-Q,

Quote
So far you have just stated that this device is violating CoE because C to A is different from B to A. And not taken one single moment to explain why.

Why? Because B and C are not equipotential, as you insist they are in the presence of the magnet. Why not? Well, because the experiment shows that--if they were equipotential the ball wouldn't have moved from B to C.

Curiously, and that's the violation of CoE, when the ball is at B it prefers to lose energy in going towards C (in addition to the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)| which it will lose anyway when it's back at A) rather than lose it (lose just the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)|) by going back to A and obeying CoE.

And, by the way, learn some elementary physics. It isn't true that "The magnetic force at point C is therefor, in respect to A, greater than the magnetic force in point B." It's just the opposite, the magnetic force at B is greater than at A.

I forgot a few words there. My mistake. Now I assume you agree with the sentence.

br.

Vidar

Omnibus · « **Reply #79 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:00:04 PM »

@Low-Q,

If you now understand that at A the force of the magnetic field is weaker than at B, I agree.

tinu · « **Reply #80 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:12:21 PM »

Quote from: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 06:38:23 PM

@tinu,

This incorrect. At B the ball has energy exactly (mgh1 + Mb) and nothing of the sorts you claim.
...

Huh?!!
This is high school physics.

Omnibus · « **Reply #81 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:14:21 PM »

@tinu,

Of course.

Low-Q · « **Reply #82 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:20:45 PM »

Quote from: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 04:48:20 PM

@tinu,

The ball free falls from B to C. Correct. Who, however, supplied the energy to bring it at B from C in the first place?

In point 2 you incorrectly state that in going from B to C it loses energy from |(mgh1 ? (Ma ? Mb))|. The correct statement is, in going from B to C it loses energy from (mgh1 + Mb) which the ball has at B. Get it?

1. The magnetic force is greater in point C than in point B. Therfor.

2. The ball finds its resting point rather in point C than point B. That means loosing energy while going towards point C.

You're getting blind as you visually are seeing that point C is in higher level than point B. Visually, in respect to level A it is, but in the magnetic loop, point C is virtually at a lower level than point B - else the ball wouldn't move from B to C. Hence the ball will drop visually upwards to this point C. However, when the ball drops beyond point C it goes virtually uphill a bit, as the magnetic field in point C is not shut down and is therfor holding back the ball for a moment, before gravity force is greater than the magnetic force and the ball is accelerating towards point A. In the drawing below you'll see how this SMOT is working if we make an pure gravitally equivalent:

Low-Q · « **Reply #83 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:25:33 PM »

Quote from: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 07:00:04 PM

@Low-Q,

If you now understand that at A the force of the magnetic field is weaker than at B, I agree.

It has by fault been claimed by me that poit A has greater magnetic force than point B - because I forgot to write "at point C". I however, never ment that A was greater than B, but that Ppoint C is greater than B.

Vidar

Omnibus · « **Reply #84 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:27:33 PM »

@Low-Q,

Emphasize on this:

"2. The ball finds its resting point rather in point C than point B. That means loosing energy while going towards point C."

and tell me who provided the energy the ball has at B to be able to lose it, as you say, while going towards C. Someone must've pulled it (spent energy to pull it) earlier from C to B to allow it now to lose that energy while, as you say, going from B to C. Who did that?

I asked @inu the same question but haven't gotten an answer from him yet.

Omnibus · « **Reply #85 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:29:32 PM »

@Low-Q,

Emphasize on this:

"2. The ball finds its resting point rather in point C than point B. That means loosing energy while going towards point C."

and tell me who provided the energy the ball has at B to be able to lose it, as you say, while going towards C. Someone must've pulled it (spent energy to pull it) earlier from C to B to allow it now to lose that energy while, as you say, going from B to C. Who did that?

I asked @tinu the same question but haven't gotten an answer from him yet.

Omnibus · « **Reply #86 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:33:05 PM »

OK, @Low-Q, don't worry about that now. Everyone makes mistakes. Focus on the question I asked you.

tinu · « **Reply #87 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:59:54 PM »

Quote from: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 07:29:32 PM

@Low-Q,

Emphasize on this:

"2. The ball finds its resting point rather in point C than point B. That means loosing energy while going towards point C."

and tell me who provided the energy the ball has at B to be able to lose it, as you say, while going towards C. Someone must've pulled it (spent energy to pull it) earlier from C to B to allow it now to lose that energy while, as you say, going from B to C. Who did that?

I asked @tinu the same question but haven't gotten an answer from him yet.

You have my answer posted! What part was not clear? I said ?the user provides mgh1+Mb-Ma to place the ball in B?. Read carefully if you are in mood of debating the issue.

Actually, thanks to the excellent drawing provided by Vidar I hope everyone can conclude this discussion. It is clear that the ball moves downward on the potential field and when it reaches its lowest point (A), the clever or the less clever user raise it back top hill (in B). I?d like to remain among the clever users and see that ALL the required energy is provided by me. No CoE violation. Not the slightest doubt about it. Input energy (A to B) -> Uphill movement. Free fall -> From B back to A, through C, which is just an intermediate point. Energy is conserved.

Tinu

Omnibus · « **Reply #88 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:36:42 PM »

@tinu,

This is incorrect, I already told you that. When the user moves the ball from A to B he or she causes the ball to lose magnetic potential energy. User isn't imparting magnetic potential energy from A to B. Therefore, here's the question again--who has supplied the magnetic potential energy Mb the ball has at B (by pulling the ball from C to B) which the ball further spontaneously loses when it goes from B to C? That was the question and you haven't answered it yet.

oak · « **Reply #89 on:** January 08, 2008, 09:18:36 PM »

No comment.

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