Low-Q,

See again what my claim is now that you understand that:

"Of course C to A is greater than B to A."

Think about how much A to B (the energy imparted to the ball) is. Isn't it equal to B to A and not equal to C to A?.

Low-Q,

See again what my claim is now that you understand that:

"Of course C to A is greater than B to A."

Think about how much A to B (the energy imparted to the ball) is. Isn't it equal to B to A and not equal to C to A?.

That's correct, but only without the magnets. Point A is within a finite distance to the magnets. The magnetic force is therefor, in respect to A, greater than the magnetic force in point B. Therefor you can use the same energy to lift the ball from A to C as from A to B if the magnets is present. So you still havn't violated the CoE. In a closed loop, point A is virtually infinetly far away, thus point B and C will have virtually the same magnetic force as they in a closed loop is virtually the same point.

@All of you: We all have predilection for different things in life, and don't see the limits due to pure blindness. "Love makes blind", or what you say in english.

Br.

Vidar

@Low-Q,

Of course. Because with the magnets, as seen, CoE is violated. With the magnets A to B isn't equal to C to A, correct?

No. A to B equals A to C with magnets - if not, the ball would never be able to move from B to C.

A to B is less than A to C without magnets - but then there is no excess force to move the ball from level B to level C

B to C is the difference between AB and AC.

The problem is how to move the ball from B to C without magnets.

CoE is not violated in both ways - both with and witout magnets. Think again

Vidar

@Low-Q,

This is obviously incorrect.

Nope. It's as correct as possible. So far you have just stated that this device is violating CoE because C to A is different from B to A. And not taken one single moment to explain why. So please do it, if you have any idea how it works out at all.

I'm done for now, waiting for the OC Magnetic Perpetual Motion Machine to prove its potential

br.

Vidar

@Low-Q,

Quote

So far you have just stated that this device is violating CoE because C to A is different from B to A. And not taken one single moment to explain why.

Why? Because B and C are not equipotential, as you insist they are in the presence of the magnet. Why not? Well, because the experiment shows that--if they were equipotential the ball wouldn't have moved from B to C.

Curiously, and that's the violation of CoE, when the ball is at B it prefers to lose energy in going towards C (in addition to the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)| which it will lose anyway when it's back at A) rather than lose it (lose just the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)|) by going back to A and obeying CoE.

And, by the way, learn some elementary physics. It isn't true that "The magnetic force is therefor, in respect to A, greater than the magnetic force in point B." It's just the opposite, the magnetic force at B is greater than at A.

Hi Omnibus.  You never give up, do you.  Maybe you should go back and re-read this page:
 http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.150.html
I guess you didn't read my comments closely enough.  You are not helping your cause.

@Low-Q,

Quote

So far you have just stated that this device is violating CoE because C to A is different from B to A. And not taken one single moment to explain why.

Why? Because B and C are not equipotential, as you insist they are in the presence of the magnet. Why not? Well, because the experiment shows that--if they were equipotential the ball wouldn't have moved from B to C.

Curiously, and that's the violation of CoE, when the ball is at B it prefers to lose energy in going towards C (in addition to the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)| which it will lose anyway when it's back at A) rather than lose it (lose just the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)|) by going back to A and obeying CoE.

And, by the way, learn some elementary physics. It isn't true that "The magnetic force is therefor, in respect to A, greater than the magnetic force in point B." It's just the opposite, the magnetic force at B is greater than at A.

I?m very disappointed at your proof, Omnibus. It?s all flawed.

1. The ball simply FREE FALLS from B to C in the total potential field (gravitational and magnetic).It?s nothing more than that; nothing unusual neither spectacular.

2. When the ball moves from B to C, it is not that it ?loses energy in going towards C (in addition  to the energy |(mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)| which it will lose anyway when it's back at A)?  but it loses energy FROM |mgh1 - (Ma - Mb)|. Where did you get that ?in addition? nonsense?!

There are also several obvious mistakes as well as speculative but false statements in your last posts but I?m too tired to comment them now. It would be pointless, anyway.
Instead, my former proposal is still open. Write a complete paper about CoE violation in SMOT and we shall talk on it. Until then, your arguments are clearly inconsistent to me as to so many others around. Is it out there a single competent person backing up your views?

Cheers,
Tinu

@Omnibus,

I?ve got it long time ago. But I do not agree with such a firm statement. The ball in B has mgh1+Mb or mgh1+Mb+C or simply mgh1+Mb-Ma, which is more natural. Potential energy is defined up to a constant (C) and you won?t get anywhere along this line.

So, in moving from B to C, the ball loses energy from the one you provide by placing it in B. ?It loses? is of course not very correct. The ball loses no energy in an ideal device (in the absence of friction, induction loses etc.).  It simply seeks its lowest state of total potential energy, which in SMOT is a trade-off between gravitational (ramp angle) and magnetic. Both can be adjusted as the ball will stop or not in C.

In short:
- the user provides mgh1+Mb-Ma to place the ball in B.
- the statement I commented was yours, not mine.
- potential energy definition can not be a proof of CoE violation. mgh1+Mb is defined only up to a constant and in order for me (for any physicist, I?d say) to accept your proof, you have to rigorously prove that the work done by the ball is higher than the energy you put in, which is mgh1+Mb-Ma.