Hi Hans,

The concept of resonance is an interesting one. There are many factors
that determine the resonant frequency of a material and as I understand it a
major one is the length of the material.

The length of a hydrogen bond in a water molecule is 95.84pm and hence one
would expect the resonant frequency to be somewhere around 3130 Petahz (10^15)
This is in the upper Xray range which obviously was not available in Keely's time.

I think the idea of Keely using a 3 chord set was to try and get this high frequency
from a harmonic. If such a high frequency harmonic could in fact be generated (and I doubt it),
it's amplitude would be miniscule and require an enormous power input to create a useful harmonic.

Therefore from a power efficiency point of view one would be better off going straight to an xray
generator in order to try and get the hydrogen bonds to resonate and hopefully break.

Obviously throwing xrays around is not for the faint hearted.

We already use microwaves to produce heat by taking advantage of the dipolar nature of
the water molecule. However going to a high power xray generator is a significant step.

Finally, if one compares the power input of an xray generator solution to the simple electolysis
solution I am prepared to bet the latter is way less!

Your thoughts would be welcomed.

ERS

@ERS
I think that keely?s use of chords is ment in a way that this chord /
composite waveform doesn?t break up the water bond directly.
Keely?s technique is to break up the topologic shells which
separate the water bond from direct inflluence of kinetic energy
from outside.
By breaking up this shells you have the possibility to transfer
kinetic energy directly to a molecular level. This additional energy
distorts the equilibrium of the water bonds and induces interesting
"molecular options" for the involved atoms. While taking this (intermediate)
options - outer shells work against this trying to protect their own equilibrium..
By tricking out this inter-shell/over all equilibrium interactions -
single (intermediate not bonded) atoms can "escape".
This trick(changing the way how the atoms recombine) has the potential
to have a higher efficiency than electrolysis where you just
replace electrons.

You are right with your assumptions about breaking up water bonds
with x rays - but thats definitely not the "trick".

Some example:
You are inside a church and want to excite the church bell
by emitting acoustic waves tuned to the resonance frequency
of the bell. It is almost impossible to do that because of the massive
church building and the massive church tower where the bell is mounted.
You have to overcome the damping(mass) of both parts.
Its not possible to establish an energy transfer at this frequency on that path.
To enable an energy transfer for that purpose - you can excite the resonance
frequency of the church building first - this enables you to put the church tower
into resonance by adding the second frequency. Now you have an energy path
from inside the church to the mounting point of the bell. It is possible to excite
the bell by adding the resonance frequency of the bell.
Church building, church tower and church bell are 3 connected oscillating
resonators operated at there resonance frequency and are able to transfer
kinetic energy.
The self resonance of the construction part overcomes the damping coefficient
of the part. Now energy induced on other frequencies to the part isnt damped
anymore - it can be transfered to connected parts.
I think thats the process Keely refers by "liberation" -
This method is quite power efficient. Maybe it takes some energy to establish
the oscillation and to overcome the damping - but it takes quite less
energy to maintain it due to accumulative nature of the phenomenon.

so long.

Hi, ERS,

With "topologic shells" I mean stages.
It would make some sense here to study
the very nice keely hompage from hans. www.keelytech.com.

In case of the dissociation of water this shells (could) be:

1. technical carrier wave just used to couple into the media
2. wave to "freeze" water clusters
3. wave to separate water clusters
4. wave to resonate the isolated cluster
5. wave to crack the cluster

This is just an example how I think Keelys technology works.
Right now I?m in a stage where I want to find out about the
nature of Keelys technology.

Pls. don?t take the church example to serious from physical
point of view - as well as the other stuff I posted -

rgds.

G'day Fritz and all,

Your example of the church and the bell is a good one, it proves you understand what Keely was on about.

One way of making this work is to chip away at the church and the tower until both are tuned to a harmonic of the bell. Now you have a clean path for energy transfer. Keely called that graduation.

Keely had no other way to get the vibrations to where he wanted them, he was forced to use the entire structure as a conductor. We don't need to do this anymore, we have now other ways of inducing resonance in a cavity.

That is where I see the development.

Hans von Lieven

@ERS
If there would be a single water bond hanging around
somewhere in space-time - there would be some
possibility to crack it with a primary oscillation tuned
to its resonance frequency.
As you stated some posts before - this frequency is
quite high and the energy needed.
In real water there are lots of things going on, molecules
swap atoms, the molecules keep on going to build clusters
and "hang out" in different ways.
By using well choosen harmonics - I think its possible to
organize a well configured transfer path down to the molecule
level - which gives a robust way to crack it - keeping the primary
frequency low.
I think that the self-resonant frequency of the water bond finally is
generated by inducing high power densities which exploit nonlinear
transfer characteristic at the "last mile" to the bond. This nonlinear
behaviour generates even higher harmonics which finally cracks the bond.
- so there?s no need to generate the water bond self harmonic.

@Hans,

I think that Keely is using some other effects on top of "graduation".
If you have 2 connected resonators working on different harmonics -
you can transfer the energy from one resonator to the other and back.
(thats somehow veljkovich (or how to spell) 2nd order pump stuff in 3rd dimension).
By having standing waves and "beat sensation" frequency setup - you can
alter the acoustic impedance of the energy transfer point between the resonators -
which gives you the chance to control the distribution of energy between
resonator 1 and 2 by means of "acoustic" control.
This effect can be used to commutate an acoustic "motor" or to produce
shock waves (of high density) to exploit nonlinear behaviour - as mentioned above -
to generate very high and powerful harmonics.

rgds.

Quote from: fritz on December 05, 2007, 07:39:38 AM

In real water there are lots of things going on, molecules
swap atoms, the molecules keep on going to build clusters
and "hang out" in different ways.

Hi Fritz,

Firstly, I cannot agree that atoms 'swap' amongst molecules under normal conditions. Can you quote a source for this statement?

Secondly, clustering of water molecules is a normal phenomenum due to their dipolar nature. However these clusters form and reform naturally and without any external impetus. There is near zero energy stored in the very weak bonds of a cluster hence little can be released by breaking them.


ERS

google, first hit:
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~acarpi/NSC/7-ph.htm

There is a nice introduction on water at Hans?s homepage -
additional there is a nice link somewhere in this thread:
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/index2.html

I don?t want to break or store energy in the cluster.
I just wanted to give an example what "shell?s" can be.
In this case, clusters will not participate in energy transfer -
maybe they are needed to get a special configuration
for this purpose ...

Great theory Hans.  Kind of like using the the main flow to line up the dominos and then a very small input (finger) will knock them all down once properly aligned. I like it.

Bill