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Author Topic: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?  (Read 81166 times)

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2007, 06:20:54 PM »
Okay, walked over to the enamel shop and scooped up about 3 pounds of free silica dust. I think it is white, so it might have some titanium dioxide in it, but im sure its mostly silica. I will attempt to create some beads tonight and ill report what I find. Ill follow the brief description of how you made them, and try to replicate.

Do you have any tips or suggestions on your process for making them? seemed that you were making them on a fuse? any reason in particular?

Offline Earl

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Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2007, 08:07:31 PM »
Hi RadiantEnRg,

Wanted to tell you how much I enjoy your enthusiastic posts.

I've attached a schematic of your rev-ing up motor test and would like to know if this is correct?

Is the polarity of the power supply or motor important?

Does the bead itself conduct enough electricity to start a spark, or do you have to start the spark by touching metal to metal and then move the arc over the bead?  Does the bead during the test get hot enough to remelt and become liquid again - or does it stay a glass pellet?

Is the arc actually inside the pyroglass bead?  Does its color during the arcing tell you anything?

Regards, Earl

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2007, 08:53:47 PM »
From what I understand you are correct Earl, but the part we need to look at is the power supply, I have a "new" signal generator that can do DC bias, so I should be able to reproduce this quite easily, I think if we have two people reporting, it may become more clear.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2007, 10:07:41 PM »


I've attached a schematic of your rev-ing up motor test and would like to know if this is correct?

Regards, Earl

Hi Earl,
many thanks for the drawing.

I guess he still used also  in series with the motor the primary of his transformer
sometimes, if I am not wrong ??

Hi RandiantNRG, could you please us more ?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 10:28:46 PM by hartiberlin »

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2007, 10:44:38 PM »
Okay, got home, took out the silica, a 5kv cap, a 350kv stun gun, dc power supply, and went about trying to make a bead

I hooked the stun gun up to the power supply and used that to pulse charge the cap. I was going to about 300-500 volts for the discharges
and might I say that even at this voltage, this is very nerve racking work, even if you know the bang is comming its still surprising. Anyways, I seemed to be corroding the metal contacts, but no silica layer was building up. I also tried to use the stun gun directly, but the ion wind kept doin strange that made it hard to manage.

Long story short, no success so far. but I do think that this process will yield an electret, or a polerized dielectric (not strictly speeking).

would you mind sharing a little more on your process for making the beads?

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2007, 11:37:20 PM »
having no success and getting a little frustrated (maybe this just takes a loooooooooooooong time) I decided to cheat and see if I could make a bead with just fire, well it worked, so at least im not barking up the wrong tree.

I am going to try a different method and see what happens

I am going to take some fine copper dust, mix it with the silica, and create a bead over a flame.
To get the same effect, I plan to create the bead on sharp rod connected to the tazer, and have the other output of the tazer directly across from the first, without arching, this should align the molecules with the field while the bead is crystalizing from the cool down process. should be interesting. ill let you all know how it goes.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2007, 12:08:07 AM »
Hi armagdn03,
I guess you are using way too high voltage and too low amps.

You really need to use higher amps and lower voltages
like in a welder device so around 30 to 50 Volts and at least 2 to 10amps.

If you use such a power supply as user RadiantNRG has used,
you need to put a big choke or transfomer winding in series
to get the arc still going, after you pull off the contacts.
This high inductance L keeps sure, that the arc keeps burning
due to the BackEMF jumping the arc, when you pull off the contact.

So you need at least to have around 30 to 100 Watts of power to do this, I guess,
so his powersupply with 30 Volts and 3 amps maximum had probably around 100 Watts
maximum power output.

Your Stun-Gun is not built for these high wattage and the high voltage will
play only games via the ion wind with you.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline RadiantEnRg

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2007, 12:11:42 AM »
Ok...there seems to be a lil confusion as to what actually makes the beads. The diagram Earl showed is correct....however thats just how to use the bead not make it. (And yes Earl it starts up instantly...and will melt the bead until the motor commutator takes over as resonant spark gap).

This is what is crucial to making it....VERY sharp off pulses...the power supplies that worked did this....  /|/|/|/|/|/|/|/|....slower rise time....almost instant off time....this makes a VERY STRONG BEMF...after all faster the delta time (change time) the higher V you get....I would say just make a 555 pulse circuit that operates an optoisolator...which in turns triggers a MOSFET pulsing 30v...in all my test 30v is good. The mechanical switch I made in my "Odd" youtube video is getting the arc...it's all about the BEMF,,,,input=30v....BEMF=1000's of V...theoretically infinate if instantaneous can be achieved

SO just to be clear....no pulse charging of a cap is needed.....all you need is a coil...the collapsing field is what makes the ARC.....The ADP series power supplies work like this...the use rectified 120VAC to charge a large capacitor....then use that capacitor and step i down through a xformer....which then charges a smaller cap....that smaller cap is pulsed by a transistor which is triggered from a sensing coil on the xformer....Once I coax out the initial arc....there is a trail of ionized gas which conducts the following on pulse...which then is shut off and another HUGE arc pulses back...ect

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2007, 01:00:37 AM »
Hi RadiantEnRg,
could you please show again in a longer video with all details
and all connections shown and also putting on your scope, how
you run the motor faster with the bead ?

Please show then the output voltage at the power supply on the scope
and also the voltage on the motor.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2007, 01:08:37 AM »
Actually I think you misunderstand what I first did before the stun gun. I was "pulse charging" the cap to get a large energy buildup, im sure you all know amperage being a a function of time means that a discharge over a short period of time equals extreemly high amperage.....like in a point contact welder.  ;)
but I did have a large coil hooked up to it.........my electromagnetic can crusher,.. but still the pulses are quite short, ill try something else though.

Offline Earl

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Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2007, 10:55:52 AM »
Hi All,

Here are some more images, comments please.

Regards, Earl

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2007, 01:02:56 PM »
Hi Earl,
thanks for drawing this up.

I think he used method B
to make his glass beads.

I wonder, if this also workswith just for instance
3 big 12 Volts batteries in series.

Should do.
Probably the sawtooth waveform is only coming up,
cause the arc is almost a shortout to the power supply
and that way he is loading the power supply too much,
so he sees the ripple, which normally loads up the end capacitor
in the power supply.

The more inductance and lower resistance the choke coil
has in front of the arc,the better it will work.

Back when I experimented with my Newman coil with a series stack
of 9 Volt batteries giving me 2000 Volts and the circuit B , I could
draw an arc of about 2 or 3 cm ( about 1 inch), before the arc stopped,
when I pulled the croco clips more far away.

With lower voltage is also work for instance with a transformer primary
coil, but then the arcing dinstance is less.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2007, 02:20:43 PM »
wow, two to three cm, impressive. I know that voltage struggles through a 1mm gap at 3000 volts, im impressed you got so much more, perhaps this is because you were extending an already ionized plasma arch. I will try number 2, as I believe this is what our friend was doing. Looking at number 3 I think that you would need the to leads of the MOSFET in series with the bead and the battery, and have the base connected to a signal generator put on a square wave or "pulse" mode, whichever gives you the fastest rise and fall time. I imagine though that pulling the contacts appart represents the quickest most abrupt disruption, but it can only be repeated maybe once per second, and im impatient.

I saw two microwaves by the dupster, im goin diggin for trash gold.....take it easy all.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2007, 02:22:20 PM »
oh I see what you are doing with the MOSFFET, never mind what I said

Offline Super

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Re: Negative resistance via pyroclay.com material ?
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2007, 02:41:06 PM »
Hi, only for understanding:

Some of us are always talking about BEMF, isn't it more a collapsing magnetic field effect ?

Sorry for this stupid question, but i think BEMF and a magnetic collapse is not the same thing...
please somebody enlighten me  :)