Author Topic: TPU - General Discussion (Read 351836 times)

Grumpy · « **Reply #240 on:** October 12, 2007, 11:36:43 PM »

Quote from: duff on October 12, 2007, 09:59:16 PM

I'm supprised that more discussion related to MACEDONIA CD's post of October 11, 2007, 17:10:15 is not taking place.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3409.msg54077.html#msg54077

He is obviously on to something that we need to try and figure out being that he's not giving us the details as to how he accompished what appears to be spiral rotation around the collector wire (look at the dawing). He states its in the way the control coils are wound.

I don't know why people post teasers and not just disclose the details - certainly it be benificial to all and a real TIME SAVER.

-Duff

This is the same thing I was talking about with the longitudinal resonance of the control - the mag field is perp to wire so will spiral around it same as the wire.

duff · « **Reply #241 on:** October 13, 2007, 12:46:55 AM »

MACEDONIA CD · « **Reply #242 on:** October 13, 2007, 12:54:24 AM »

HI
TOANDERSTEND MY ONLY YOU NEED SMALL PIECES OF WIRE ABOUT 5 cm THEN YOU MOVE PERM,MAG HORISONTAL THHEN VERTICAL OR AROUND YOU WHILL SEE THE DIFERENTS VOLTAGE YOU MOST MOVE THE MAGNET WHIT THE SAME SPEED TO SEE THE DIFERENT BEATVEANE THIS 2 DIFERENTS MOVING OF MAGNET

wattsup · « **Reply #243 on:** October 13, 2007, 12:54:26 AM »

Hi all,

I am presently studying the Litz wire question, choice of wire type, etc.

I found this site that explains it pretty well.

http://www.litz-wire.com/applications.html

Here's another site with lots of litz calculations, etc.
I can't seem to open the pdf's but maybe you will have better luck.
http://thayer.dartmouth.edu/inductor/intro.shtml

Good read. Above my head but good read.
I know this read hits some important nails.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup197/slup197.pdf

This table shows Lizt wire depending on frequency range.
http://www.hmwire.com/pdf%20files/Round_Litz_Recommendations_2B72407.pdf

Really good rundown on Litz wire types.
http://www.newenglandwire.com/nepdfs/litz_Brochure.pdf

Optimal Choice for Number of Strands in a Litz-Wire Transformer Winding
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sullivan/litzwire/litz.html

duff · « **Reply #244 on:** October 13, 2007, 04:22:32 AM »

Grumpy · « **Reply #245 on:** October 13, 2007, 05:01:59 AM »

Quote from: duff on October 13, 2007, 12:46:55 AM

...because at the top of the thread he refers to ultra sound.

Longitudinal waves propagate like sound waves.

ronotte · « **Reply #246 on:** October 13, 2007, 10:15:08 AM »

Hi all,

@Whatsup

THANKS for the Litz link...really a lot of goodies....I'm really happy.......I'll need to read it deeply and use it on line.

@Duff

1 - in my case I did 2 tests one with a 20mt Litz coil and one using a 500mt thin enameled wire coil. In both case the magnet (NEO) were sliding on top or coil bottom. If I operate the coil side I obtain very small effect. Of course is normal that if you take your heavily coiled bobbin in your hand (or slide your hand very near) it will do like an antenna...capturing mainly your body leakage 50 Hz. In my case I always stayed far from the coil and the background noise were about 20 millivolt in relation to 400 - 500millivolt due to mag swinging over the coil top.
NOTE: if I move the coil only --> NO EFFECT.
2 - it's funny you did not had a very good reaction with your high speed gtest (it is not that in the open TPU the grey side thingh is just a small DC motor?). I'll chek it as well but in an easier way: just how told by MACEDONIA CD. I'll report on this.

@Grumpy

OK about your suggestion to put the kick coil all over the ring: in my case it will be lumped in 3 spaces as other places are already fitted with 3 control coils. I do confirm that bandwidth for the small test prototype is from 30 KHz into megahertz range.
One point to note is that the output voltage is strictly following the magnet sliding on top of the test coil, so it's NOT A KICK but just a small DC amplitude variation with the time. With such an fdo I wonder if it can be useful to induce anything on exixting 90 degree collector wire!
SO HOW TO EASILY TRANSFORM A SLOW DC VARIATION INTO A KICK USEFUL FOR OUR PURPOSES?

@MACEDONIA CD,

The last question is also for you as it seems that you know it better: to summarize we do need a kick coil excited by the relatively slow hand sliding of a magnet and able to deliver at least one fast kick that in turn would be multiplicated by the induction into our existing Control coils. As you have seen I did some tests on single wire and high coiled bobbins...but always using hand linear magnet sliding. OK i'll try next with hand movement of magnet around the wire...I'm just going to do it and I'll report the difference. Anyway , doing by hand I'll have still slow DC voltage NOT KICKs....so the problem will be still opened.

Roberto

ronotte · « **Reply #247 on:** October 13, 2007, 11:19:03 AM »

Hi all,

@MACEDONIA CD

as previously said I just did the following test:

1 - I took a piece of 15 cm of Litz wire (40 threads) then kept it stright on two rigid supports and put scope probe in derivation.
2 - Set scope sensibility to 20 millivolt/div and slided by hand horizonthally and then vertically my 1x4 x .5 cm my NEO magnet bar. RESULT = 10 mV noise steady - no activity indication on scope. Clearly the wire lenght is too short and unable to catch also the strong mag field coming in either way from the NEO magnet.
3- tried the same but revolving by hand the NEO around the wire: same result - nothing.

MACEDONIA:

"TOANDERSTEND MY ONLY YOU NEED SMALL PIECES OF WIRE ABOUT 5 cm THEN YOU MOVE PERM,MAG HORISONTAL THHEN VERTICAL OR AROUND YOU WHILL SEE THE DIFERENTS VOLTAGE YOU MOST MOVE THE MAGNET WHIT THE SAME SPEED TO SEE THE DIFERENT BEATVEANE THIS 2 DIFERENTS MOVING OF MAGNET"

Why do you claim such kind of results?.....we have not time to loose. If you are on something please document it full like I do! I'll be first to congratulate. I'm much interested in obtaining KICKS : NOT SLOW DC VOLTAGE SWING.

@ all

I tried to put my NEO in my hand driller chuck and run it slow near the top of my 20 mt Litz lumped KICK COIL: OK I've a very good sinusoid of about 0.5 V ptp (about 1 V or more using a bigger NEO). So if this's the way (open TPU perhaps uses a small DC motor to do the trick) how do you suggest to transform it in kicks without use of any electronics? (I tried to resonate the output but for the moment no results....)

Roberto

wattsup · « **Reply #248 on:** October 13, 2007, 06:40:37 PM »

@Roberto

Good to see you like the links. I will put up some more on that same post. I just put another link showing Litz wire AWG versus frequency range.

For tests like MAC's, remember if the wire strands are in parallel this will increase amperage, if it is in series, this will increase voltage. So you may be seeing low voltage but the amperage should be higher.

Looking at the video, I would take a guess to say the coil wire Litz is 16 AWG and according to the table for 6000 hertz (1khz-10khz range), it would be a 26 strands of 30 AWG wire.

Now the problem here is it could also be a 14 AWG which would make 42 strands at 30 AWG. I will look at this further to see if I can pick up any visuals for a better size comparison, etc.

One other major thing I have observed on the Coil #2, I think I am seeing a round magnet or a ferrit core or something else round that is taped on the outer side of the coil. I am putting two photo close-ups, one regular photo and one with britness adjusted to show this and maybe others can get a better idea on what this may be. I am sure it is not the natural curvature of wound coil wires.

Sorry if I am putting these observations one after the other, but this video is really short and crappy and you have to spend alot of time looking and looking to see the small nuances.

So there could be one magnet on the side of the coil and another placed manually on top. Maybe the shifting action between of both fields is creating a field movement. Also, there could be another magnet on the inner side of the coil.

I am going to my favorite electronics place to see if they have Litz so I can do some testing myself on this question. Not everyone sells Litz wire. I have seen some on ebay. When I saw this item I was thinking of Otto for this ECD rings.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Litz-wire-175-46-coils-Loop-antennas-crystal-sets-100_W0QQitemZ300160862204QQihZ020QQcategoryZ26213QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

MACEDONIA CD · « **Reply #249 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:20:43 AM »

HI
i realy dont anderstend me in the england languege if you able to make anderstend in my languege i whill tell in my languege is easy way , i read some reply of otto is raid way i have more ideas and more things to make a road clears to make a move to this way listen i now whill say in the macedonian lang..
ZDRAVO NA SITE STO SE MI PRIJATELI I NEPRIJATELI VAKA JAS SKORO SUM MNOGU VREME NA OVOJ FORUM I MISLAM E MNOGU DOBAR I E LESEN ZA KONTAKT
OVDE DRUGO IMAM MNOGU LUGE STO SAKAAT DA IM SE POKAZE SO SLIKI ILI SO VIDEO CLIPOVI DOBRO NO I DA VI PRATAM DA RECEME STO KE VIDITE ISTO KAO I S.M DA GLAVNITE DELOVI NE SE GLEDAAT NO SEPAK JAS SUM VO FORMA DA IZRABOTAM DOBAR TPU I DA VI GO PRATAM DA GO VIDITE DEKA E VOZMOZNAO DA SE NAPRAVI TOA STO NAIZGLED LICI EDNOSTAVNO NO TESKO DA SE SVATI NO SEPAK E MNOGU EDNOSTAVNO TOA KE VI KAZAM ,, IMA 2 RABOTI KOI SE MNOGU VAZNI ZA DA SE POCNE DA SE IZRABOTI NA SLICEN ONOJ NACIN KOJ GO IZRABOTIL DA RECEME <S.M > VAKA 1 -- KE POCNAM SO OVA JAS KAKO STO SUM GO SFATIL SO GLEDANJE NA CLIPOVITE OD S.M ISO NEKOI PATENTI STARI STO SUM GI CITAL SOM POTVRDIL DEKA TOA EDINSTVEN NACIN DA SE NAPRAVI TOA I DRUGO IMA 1 DO 3 NACINAI DA SE NAPRAVI SLICNO KAO S.M TPU
SEGA
KOGA GO SLUSNAV DEKA SM KAZUVA 1 I OSNOVNO DEKA <<< ZICITE NEGOVI STO SE VNATRE VO TPU SE MNOGU VAZNI >> I DEKA NAMOTKITE KAKO SE NAMOTANI I NAKAKOV NACIN SE IZRABOTENI ISTOTAKA SE VAZNI I DA ZNAETE IMA GOLEMA VRSKA KAKO SE NAMOTANI I E VO PRAVO S.M SO OVA KAZUVA VISTINA

DRUGO ON KAZUVA VAKA KREIRA ELEKTROMAGNET SILA KOJ OVOZMOZUVA DVIZENJE NA ELKTRONI VO DRUGA NAMOTKA << I VISTINA VI KAZUVAM U PRA VOE TOJ>> E SEGA TOJ NAPRAVIL 2 3 VIDA ZA DA NAPRAVI DVIZENJE NA ELEKTRONI
1 E SO MAGNET PERMANENTEN A SLEDNIOT E SO NEKAKOF OSCIL. KOJ GSLUZI KAO START POTOA TOJ SE ISKLUCUVA ILI SE NADOPOLNUV

PRIJATELI
VAKA TIE SE OSNOVNITE RABOTI KOJ TREBA DA GI SVATITE VIE MOZE DA IZBERETE 2 NACINA KAKO DA NAPRVITE NESTO STO KE GO STARTUVA PRIVOT UDAR ILI <<KICK> I VTORO KAKO DA GI NAPRAVITE NAMOTKITE
DRUGO S.M KAZUVA DEKA NEGOVOTO TPU NE SE ZAGREVA MNOGU A JAS IMAM I ZATOA ODGOVOR

? KAKO NESTO TOLKUMALO I TOLKU JAKO DA NE ZAGREVA E VAK
AKO NAPRAVITE VISOKA FREKFENCIJA MISLAM NA<< LM WAVE >> TIE BRANOVI ILI FREK. IMAAT SPOSOBNOST DA GI DVIZAT SLOBODNITE ELEKTRONI KOJSE NAOGAAT NA POVRSINATA NA ZICATA TIE NE VLIAAT NA VNATRESNITE ELEKTRO ZNAETE DEKA VNATRESNITE ELEKTRONI AKO SE DVIZAT VO VNATRESNINAT NA ZICATA TOGAS SE DOAGA DO TRIENJE NA ATOMITE I TOGAS U TOA DVIZE ILI PAK UDIRANJE NA SEKOJ ATO M SO DRUG ATOM SE PROIZVEDUVA TEMPERATURA ,, SO OVA VI DOKAZUVAM DEKA S.M KORISTI BRZA FREKF ZA DA NE PROIZVEDE OD EDNASTRANE TEMPERATRA A OD DRUGA STRANA DA NE STAVA I DA IZBEGNE MNOGU ZICA VO TOA TPU I POKRAJ OVA IZATOA TOA NEGOVO TPU NEMA GOLEMA TEZINA JAS PRONAJDO NEKOI NACINI ZA DA SE NAPRAVI OVA VAKA PRVO DA NE ZABORAVEM DA VE PRASAM NESTO DALI IMATA CITANO ONA PISMO KGA S.M MU PISUVA NA <<MANNIX >>""""""" S.M PRAVEL EXPERIMENT SO 2 TRANSFORMATORA PROCITAJTEGO TOJ DEL DOBIL NESTO MNOGU VAZNO TUKA SO TOJ EXPERIMENT NAVODNO STO GO IMAL PRAVENO """"""VAKA IMATE NESTO VAZNO 2 DA NAPRAVITE A TOA KAKO DA IZRABOTITE MAGNETNO POL MISLAM JAKO MAGNETNO PO SO MNOGU SLAB ELEKTRICEN IZVOR ILI PAK PERM .MAGNET SEGA KE VI KAZAM VAZNA RABOTA I ZAPAZETE
DA PRATPOSTAVIME IMATE MAL IZVOR NEZNACI DEKA MOZE DA BIDE OBICNO TRFO MOZE DA BIDE BILO KAKOV IZVOR PA I PER.MAGNET
ZA DA ME SFATITE KE VI OBJASNAM SO TRAFO AKO TOA TRA DA RECEME IMA MAX.. SNAGA OD 1 WATT TOA TRAFO VO CENTAROT NA JADROTO IMA SI NEKAKVO SLABO MAGNETNO POLE ONKVO KAKVO STO MU TREBA ZA DA PROIZVEDE SNAGA OD 1 WATT AKO STE UCELE ILI PAK ZNAETE DEKA AKO IMATE NEKOJ MAGNET I GI DVIZITE OKOLU ZICA KE DOBIETE STRUJA NEKAKVA EPA SEGA KAKO DA NAPRAVITE DA GO ZGOLEMITE MAGNETNOTO POLE ILI PAK DA DOBIETE POGOLEMO MAGNETNO POLE SO TOLKU MAL TR.. OD 1 WATT DA RECEME TOA TRFO OD 1 WATT IMA MAG POLE 0,0001 TESLA A
DA RECEME VO SPOREDBA 1000WATNO TRAFO IMA 1 TESLA MAGNETNO POLE .... KAKO E VOZMOZNO DA NAPRAVITE TOLKU GOLEMO MAGNETNO POLE KA ZA 1000WATT TRAFO A KORISTITE 1 WATT TRAFO ,,,PRVO STO KE RECETE TOA E NEVOZMOZNO I NEMA SANSI ZA DA SE NAPRAVI TOA E PA DRUGARI TOA E VOZMOZNO
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OVA MNOGU BITNA RABOTA I BITNA FORMULA ILI ZGOLEMUVAS BRZINA SO NAMELENO MAGNETNO POLE IL ZGOLEMUVAS MAG. POLE SO NAMALENA BRZINA TOA E ISTO
SEGA VE OSTAVAM DA KAZETE NESTO A NAREDEN PAT KGA KE ME SFATITE KE VI GO KAZAM I ONA NAJGLAVNOT << START SO MAGNET >> I ZGOLEMUVANJE NA ELKTR. MAGNETNO POLE SO MNOGU MAL IZVOR TOGAS KOGA KE GO ZGOLEMITE MAGN. POLE SO MAL IZVOR TOGAS LESNO KE JA PRIMENITE OVAA FORMULA
CEKA ODGOR I REPLY POZDRAV OD MAKEDONIJA

MACEDONIA CD · « **Reply #250 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:30:14 AM »

HEY WATTSOUP I ASK YOU HOW IS POSIBLE WHIT 1 KICK WHIT MAG TO MAKE 8,7 HZ OR CICLUSE SEE YOUR PIC HO IS THE UP OF TPU RING ABOUVE

;
) SECRET HA HA HA FIND AND SEE IF YOU SEE GOOD BY

Grumpy · « **Reply #251 on:** October 14, 2007, 04:45:11 AM »

Here is an interesting passage from one of Eric Dollard's books "Symbolic Representation of the Generalized (in time) Electric Wave" - page 52:

Quote

"This multiplication , or modulation, of one wave by another wave of the same number of divisions produces what may be called "canonic electric waves", after the process in music where one melody is combined with itself delayed by a given number of divisions if the measure, producing harmony by interference with itself. This process is the underlying principle behind the synchronous condenser, hysteresis motor, and parametric amplifier. The means for producing this phenomenon is call "synchronous parameter variation", and is the principle behind what is often called "free energy", which is quite possible if not certain."

Doesn't this sound like a distant explanation of SM's harmonics?

wattsup · « **Reply #252 on:** October 14, 2007, 05:41:44 AM »

@Grumpy

Very pertinent.

@Mac

If I knew the answer to the question, I would have posted it here already and not have asked or played a guessing game.

The object of this board is to bring minds together, observe, test, and put forth our ideas. It is not to tease the members. So if you want to teach us something, fine, please do.

As for your text in Macedonian, I have looked all over the internet to see if I could find an online translator to put this in English, but without any success. Mac, is there any other language you speak that may be available with online translators. Otherwise is there anyone here that can translate the above text. The only other way is to translate this manually word for word.

We'll see what we can do because I wold really like to know what you have written. But if you speak another language besides Macedonian, please advise.

@ALL

Well it seems like I will have to put up alot of photos to show you guys how this device is made, so you will believe it.

BEP started a new thread and says the material of the rings being non-conductive is hog-wash. You know, I did not say non-conductive, I said non-metalic simply because it is made of Plexiglass or call it what you wish.

The photo below shows it all at 38:40.

A. Is a view under the ring with the lamps lighting it from the top side. You can clearly see through the ring. The dark edge is expected and is not a wire. It's only the normal darkness of the ring edge. The light is shinning on SM's thumb that you can clearly see through the ring. Now when you advance the video frame by frame, you can see his thumb moving through the ring.

B. Is a curved shadow made by the light hitting the outer top right side of the ring and you can see this shadow on leg #2. Again you can see the dark outline caused by the ring edge. An opaque ring would have given a black shadow. A semi-transparent ring would give exactly what we see, a gradually lighter shadow.

But in all this, I did non say non-conductive. There could be an interaction between the fields with any static bouncing off the plexiglass ring. This would be considered a valid theory.

You know, I did not want to create any bad vibes with guys here.

Just ask yourself why so many have been working on this device for so long. Well the logical answer would be because we all saw the device working in a video. So........ what the f&?k did we really see. What is this device? This is the prime question to answer if one is to make any real progress in replication.

Geez..... we could go on playing the guessing game for a decade and we would never get close. So this is why I decided to ween the hell out of every f*&kin little pixel on these videos to get the most amount of solid, concrete information possible, figuring that every morcel of new concrete information would point us in the right direction much faster. It takes hours and hours to get just a pinch.

So I'm sorry if I may be brushing a few feathers the wrong way but I am sure in the long run, this exercise will be of great benefit.

And If anything is put forth that you feel is inaccurate, then show me please. I will be the first one to welcome such observations. Please do. All I want is to get the reality level of the device up to the OU level of the guys here. Cause you deserve it.

ronotte · « **Reply #253 on:** October 14, 2007, 11:53:42 AM »

@MACEDONIA

Quote from: wattsup on October 14, 2007, 05:41:44 AM

The object of this board is to bring minds together, observe, test, and put forth our ideas. It is not to tease the members. So if you want to teach us something, fine, please do

EXACTLY!

MACEDONIA, I'm still waiting for your reply...is there any? or you want just play with us?

@Otto

Please Otto would you be so kind to translate for us what said by Macedonia?

@Whattsup

OPEN TPU. I do agree it seems that the rings are made of transparent matter! Thanks for your documented & continue efforts. I'd like to get more info about the coils that very probably are UNDER the 4 visible. Perhaps doing some pics enhancing could ber possible to identify at least the wires in - out ......

Roberto

MACEDONIA CD · « **Reply #254 on:** October 14, 2007, 03:43:25 PM »

hey
watsupp you ask nicikc name <<< inovation> or something like this man whill help to translate my macedonian languege this explane for mac .. is very good explane i hope to translate and read some good explane how is made and how is to make a made some good progress

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