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Author Topic: TPU - General Discussion  (Read 291536 times)

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #165 on: October 08, 2007, 10:22:18 PM »
I'm realy stuck on this simpler LINEAR concept derived from the TPU, can't you tell?   LOL  :)

If this doesn't work, then we know it has to be the CIRCULAR nature of the TPU, that makes it work.


Here's a simpler setup then my previous one.   Just a rod with magnets attached at the end.  The magnets also BIAS the Iron.  :)

How much simpler can one get?

EM



It's a beauty EMDevices!

Unless it has to be circular for some reason, I too think the linear version should be just fine for testing ;)...

So, at the fundamental resonant standing wave frequency, there would be maximum displacement of the iron rod and the magnets, which should move the magnets at the ends of the iron rod VERY quickly back and forth, thereby inducing a good amount of power into the end coils.

Do you think the input energy requirement will drop as it approaches this fundamental frequency? It probably doesn't matter, because we should see ample output at the end coils nonetheless.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #165 on: October 08, 2007, 10:22:18 PM »

Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #166 on: October 08, 2007, 10:33:33 PM »
thanks tao,  I belive we should see a drop in input energy at any kind of resonance, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm counting on that powerfull expansion and contraction due to magnetostriciton.    This phenomena is like an AMPLIFIER.   With little magnetic field we can align a bunch of domains, and hence produce a ton of force.  That's why the magnetic constant of these feromagnetic materials is so high (in the thousands).


The only thing that complicates things in this linear concept is the MUTUAL coupling between the input coil and output coils.  That's why I show the spacers between the magnet and iron rod.    The larger the spacer the less we have to worry about this mutual coupling.  It might be good it might be bad, I don't know at this point.

With a CIRCULAR setup we don't need to worry about this, because all the flux is TRAPED by the toroid.
The vibrating ring in LONGITUDINAL MODE, basicaly expands and contract, changing it's radius.

Oh well, I'll experiment with the linear model first and then move on to circular, like the open TPU.

EM

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #167 on: October 08, 2007, 10:38:47 PM »
@EM & TAO

@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:

http://www.altenergy-pro.com/device09-2.htm

Acerzw


You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

Why both working on the TPU if it isn't portable? Are you serious? Who said it wasn't portable? And when did I say I didn't want a portable TPU??? Are you telling me that carrying 2 TPUs as opposed to 1 TPU makes it NOT PORTABLE? LOL, so going from 1 pounds to 2 pounds makes it not portable? Come on man... Plus, what would you consider the 17" TPU? That's portable? Your argument is baseless.

My last post explained to you why I wrote what I did about solving the heat problem, perhaps you should read it again, because it clearly ISN'T insane.

Quote
The most insane ideas, ey? Who said anything about carrying it around? I didn't...

Mine was a SIMPLE example as to how you could solve the HEATING problem of the TPUs in the MOST OBVIOUS WAY, nothing more nothing less.

And, since his 6" TPU weighed only 1 pound, having 2 or 3 TPUs would only make that at around 2 to 3 pounds.

SM said that the HEAT issue was a real problem, so, if he resorted to water cooling, you can damn well bet he tried air cooling with a fan and such. SM insinuated that the HEAT issue was a sort of byproduct of the conversion process, and that eddy currents were in effect also related to the conversion process. Since this is the case, the HEATing problem is almost INTERNAL to the actual conversion elements, and hence hard to COOL. So, my SIMPLE and OBVIOUS example of using 2 or more TPUs, WOULD 100% solve the TPU heating problem a la SM's own words and admissions about how he dealt with the heating problems and how and why they occur.

So, to call my idea insane, is in itself insane, because my SOLUTION is OBVIOUS, and is 100% workable as a SOLUTION...

Just remember, YOU started all of this by attacking me, saying that I had the most insane idea ever, even though my IDEA which 100% solves the problem, was merely a POLITE SUGGESTION...

And one more thing, where did you get all your info on the TPUs having predetermined MTBFs? SM never said that the TPUs degrade, that isn't a 'KNOWN'.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #167 on: October 08, 2007, 10:38:47 PM »
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Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #168 on: October 08, 2007, 11:03:13 PM »
thanks tao,  I belive we should see a drop in input energy at any kind of resonance, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm counting on that powerfull expansion and contraction due to magnetostriciton.    This phenomena is like an AMPLIFIER.   With little magnetic field we can align a bunch of domains, and hence produce a ton of force.  That's why the magnetic constant of these feromagnetic materials is so high (in the thousands).


The only thing that complicates things in this linear concept is the MUTUAL coupling between the input coil and output coils.  That's why I show the spacers between the magnet and iron rod.    The larger the spacer the less we have to worry about this mutual coupling.  It might be good it might be bad, I don't know at this point.

With a CIRCULAR setup we don't need to worry about this, because all the flux is TRAPED by the toroid.
The vibrating ring in LONGITUDINAL MODE, basicaly expands and contract, changing it's radius.

Oh well, I'll experiment with the linear model first and then move on to circular, like the open TPU.

EM


I see the magnetostrictive expansion/contraction as the AMPLIFIER too, quite a powerful one indeed. So, in your linear setup there, it is THIS effect that brings in the OU into the device, IT is the key OU mechanism.

And like SM said, it is the SPEED that counts, even a small magnetic field can generate a large output, if the SPEED is quick enough, and this SPEED certainly seems to be present in the magnetostiction ;), as you well know, and certainly as BEP knows ;)...

WE supply the CONTROL, the IRON (or other magnetostictive element) does the rest, opening the flood gates to OU... But of course, we need some copper wire and/or some magnets to extract this OU, the point is that we have identified a very possible and key MECHANISM FOR OU (and that is huge!), and now we can test.

I consider that the first step in identifying and replicating any OU device, finding it's mechanism for OU (or potential mechanism). It's all about isolating, testing and improving these mechanisms, that is how an OU device will be made, and improved upon.

But of course, you knew all this, hence this post is a sort of open monologue, so those that might not see this, can...

Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #169 on: October 08, 2007, 11:10:43 PM »
It's so reassuring to see you understand what I'm trying to say, tao,   You spelled it out very nicely !!    I just can't wait to get home and start experimenting.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #169 on: October 08, 2007, 11:10:43 PM »
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Offline z_p_e

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #170 on: October 08, 2007, 11:27:48 PM »

A fan will not help as SM stated, the heat can be radiated away, but the heat is caused by mechanical stresses in the coil, presumably due to its expansion and retraction because of magnetorestriction, which degrade its material over time.
Magnetostriction does not occur in the coil, and this is not what causes the heating. Read SM's material.

Quote
A single TPU cannot run for a prolonged period of time because of the degradation of the coil material, of which the heat is a by-product. Removing the heat with any form of cooling device will not make a TPU reliable, the heat does not cause the damage, the heat is a result of the damage being caused.
The heat problem is caused by eddy currents. Read SM's material.

Quote
This demonstrates the first fundamental flaw in the TPU's design, because of the mechanical effect that it utilises, it has an unavoidable mechanical mode of failure, despite being 'solid state'. It just flexes rather than rotates, in effect it is a linear motor and will eventually fail like one.
The mechanical effect may only be a by-product of the conversion process. There is no iron in the TPU aside from the ferrite cores, so magnetostriction is unlikely the cause.

Quote
What comes out of this group will not be covered by any TPU patents if they exist, because in essence it cannot and will not be a TPU!  8)
What is a TPU? What would preclude a successful working device here from being the true TPU?

Quote
@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:
You're basing this statement on the assumption the TPU operates using magnetostricition, AND that the coils degrade due to mechanical stresses. If the TPU does not operate using MS, (and imo it does not) and there are no mechanical stresses on the coils (imo there are none), then tao's proposed solution is 100% plausible.

I encourage you to re-read SM's material. Clearly the essence of his messages are becoming clouded here, and the facts messed up.

Oh, and btw, as far as I know, SM never ever mentioned the word "Schumann" in either his material or videos. You inferred that he did.

Offline MACEDONIA CD

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #171 on: October 08, 2007, 11:49:54 PM »
hi EMDIVICES  AND TO ALL
  how are you my friend  ..   i have  great progres  whit  this theory////  i make  in this  in practical  is forking   .. if you read this  you know what im tell you  ...and now  i have tell you  to all  i made some  whit thiny wire  is like a magic things  <<< you imagen  what  whill done whit  many wire   >>and simple  push of litle  energy  just  is  need 5 or 6 second  to start  then  is hapend   the kick then this kick  is created  my god is fantastic thing  of increse  the power of out   
-0000000000000-00000000000000-000000000000000
  TO ALL  i whant to ask  something <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< what you mean  is posible  whit simple  1 kick  to make  5000 kick  in 1 single second  only whit  small batery  or perm. magnet   i have find  the ansver  and  i made some of that  ..you nnow what i m say  my friend  EM.  i hope to reply

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #171 on: October 08, 2007, 11:49:54 PM »
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Offline MACEDONIA CD

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #172 on: October 09, 2007, 12:11:00 AM »
ONE  HELP TO ALL  you every one is look the tpu  whit  2 bulb  when is start whit 2 perm magn.  ok
 in one of the ring SM is put 4 coil and find the ansver   ;) ;) ;)

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #173 on: October 09, 2007, 12:59:58 AM »
@Macedonia

It sounds like you have had some success, can you do a drawing for us? Difficult to understand what you mean..

Acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #173 on: October 09, 2007, 12:59:58 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #174 on: October 09, 2007, 01:25:37 AM »
Question. Why is an alternating current of 6000 hertz considered DC?

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #175 on: October 09, 2007, 02:00:05 AM »
You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

@tao, I beg to differ... .

I do have concrete designs for OU devices, so I suspect do you and many others on this forum!  Here I will site two examples..

John Bedini has published many schematics that have been replicated, a book and a set of DVD's! As I am sure you are aware one replication was built by a school girl! Since then an even simpler design the Simplified School Girl Motor has been provided by John. Tom Bearden and John Bedini have provided enough comments, detailed scientific explanations and tutorials to fill an entire library and continue to do so....

BEMF is probably the most well explained, simplest and easily verified principle on which an OU device can be based! Absolutely no secrets have been kept regarding its use... Rocket Science it is not...

As I recall SM proved that too, for did he not describe, lest we forget, the simplest OU device of all:

4.In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth?s magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it. Or rather the electrons on the surface of the wire.
5.The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth?s magnetic field to produce a small kick. (Morgan Jones book, valve amplifiers. 3rd edition, page 262)
6.It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires
7. They say that you cannot get more out of something than you put into it. Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on... There in lies the secret my friend.

Even I can build that one  8)

Some of Don Smith's devices clearly work on similar principles to John Bedini's, notice the similar arrangements of magnets and coils, thought Don seems to have simplified the principle even further than John in some cases... He has multiple systems many of which appear to use ideas very similar to those posted on this very forum... reverse engineering them from the clear photos on his website has got to be simpler than attempting to replicate the TPU from SM's cryptic comments and grainy videos!

Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...

Acerzw
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 02:31:21 AM by acerzw »

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #175 on: October 09, 2007, 02:00:05 AM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #176 on: October 09, 2007, 02:45:05 AM »
Question. Why is an alternating current of 6000 hertz considered DC?


wattsup, I believe SMs TPU uses a diode bridge to rectify the alternating current and get DC, and inevitably we will have the ripple present (6000 Hz) as well.

On the other hand, if the phenomena truly produces DC current, then it's another story.   For example the magnetostrictive induced audio pulse can go round and round and resemble a magnet spinning round and round, inducing and draging charge with it in every LOOP OF WIRE.   This can certainly be happening as well.

Good question though, I asked the same of Mannix a while ago but I don't think we got an answer from SM.
   
EM

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #177 on: October 09, 2007, 03:20:51 AM »
You talk as if there are all these already working OU devices that are readably available for use, lol. Do you have any concrete designs for any of those? Any comments from the inventors? That link is to Don Smith's page, and has been there for a long time, good luck getting any information from him...

@tao, I beg to differ... .

I do have concrete designs for OU devices, so I suspect do you and many others on this forum!  Here I will site two examples..

John Bedini has published many schematics that have been replicated, a book and a set of DVD's! As I am sure you are aware one replication was built by a school girl! Since then an even simpler design the Simplified School Girl Motor has been provided by John. Tom Bearden and John Bedini have provided enough comments, detailed scientific explanations and tutorials to fill an entire library and continue to do so....

BEMF is probably the most well explained, simplest and easily verified principle on which an OU device can be based! Absolutely no secrets have been kept regarding its use... Rocket Science it is not...

As I recall SM proved that too, for did he not describe, lest we forget, the simplest OU device of all:

4.In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth?s magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it. Or rather the electrons on the surface of the wire.
5.The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth?s magnetic field to produce a small kick. (Morgan Jones book, valve amplifiers. 3rd edition, page 262)
6.It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires
7. They say that you cannot get more out of something than you put into it. Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on... There in lies the secret my friend.

Even I can build that one  8)

Some of Don Smith's devices clearly work on similar principles to John Bedini's, notice the similar arrangements of magnets and coils, thought Don seems to have simplified the principle even further than John in some cases... He has multiple systems many of which appear to use ideas very similar to those posted on this very forum... reverse engineering them from the clear photos on his website has got to be simpler than attempting to replicate the TPU from SM's cryptic comments and grainy videos!

Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...

Acerzw



LOL...

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

I had Bearden's book when it came out, and I know all about what SM said, I WAS THE ONE WHO HE ORIGINALLY SAID HAD THE KEY SECRET FOR A WORKING TPU... So, don't try to tell me anything.

You see, you mean well enough, but again, your comeback is baseless.

You are saying that BEMF is not rocket science and that is it easy and open domain, and that Smith's coils should be easily interpreted, against the knowledge of Bedini's devices, etc... Yet, all of that is conjecture, for in the end, you have no evidence for any working device.

I am NOT attacking you, I am merely trying to show you that you need to do some more research. And yet, even though I am ONLY trying to SHOW you your mistakes, you keep round-about attacking me, "Even I can build that one".

Now, although you may fully adhere to "Using John Bedini's information alone is enough allow the design of endless OU devices...", please note what I wrote above, about John's inner circle...

I am NOT SAYING that Bedini's work isn't OU-possible, and I totally see HOW it can work, BUT, the FACT IS NO ONE OTHER THAN BEDINI HAS DONE WHAT BEDINI HAS DONE YET...

You know how Bedini insinuated that he rebuilt Gray's tube (look it up on google) and he was using it and such? Well, he point blank told me that he never did get around to powering the TUBE like Gray did, nor did he see any cold current...

Just more evidence that MANY of the people in the OU community like to talk about OU devices that they are sure will work, but never actually make it to that stage, for whatever reason.

There are a lot of people who made it to OU land, be sure of that, but it isn't as easy as you are making it, PERIOD! You are making it sound like I'm a fool or something and that there is OU devices all around me if I would only look, and the plans for these devices are all WORKABLE and fairly simple to build, COME ON MAN, your delusional. Why do you think everyone is here?

Not ONE workable *PUBLIC* and *OBVIOUS* OU device yet, because if there were you can damn be sure that EVERYONE HERE WOULD BE DUPLICATING IT RIGHT NOW...............

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #178 on: October 09, 2007, 04:04:02 AM »
@tao

I see what you are saying, but when you make and use statements such as this:

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

which you must be aware cannot be verified or substantiated by anyone who does not have your inside knowledge or contacts, regardless of the amount of research they undertake, then you must accept that many, me included, are simply not going to believe you!

Can you prove any of the above? How come those who know this in his inner circle have not said anything? Are they covering up for him simply because he is a nice guy and he grants them audience? I hope you can understand my healthy skepticism in regard to that comment...

What would John have to say regarding that comment, since you have knowledge which you say is privy only to his inner circle, can you contact one of them, or perhaps him, and ask him for us?

Acerzw

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #179 on: October 09, 2007, 04:41:09 AM »
@tao

I see what you are saying, but when you make and use statements such as this:

First off, Bedini, he is a great guy for sure, but rest assured, rest VERY assured, that even the people in his inner circle of replicators, and he does have one, even THEY, who talk to him regularly, even THEY don't have their devices operating in OU yet!!! I wouldn't expect you to know that information, not many do, but it is the truth, believe it or not...

which you must be aware cannot be verified or substantiated by anyone who does not have your inside knowledge or contacts, regardless of the amount of research they undertake, then you must accept that many, me included, are simply not going to believe you!

Can you prove any of the above? How come those who know this in his inner circle have not said anything? Are they covering up for him simply because he is a nice guy and he grants them audience? I hope you can understand my healthy skepticism in regard to that comment...

What would John have to say regarding that comment, since you have knowledge which you say is privy only to his inner circle, can you contact one of them, or perhaps him, and ask him for us?

Acerzw

No, I can't prove it, out of a respect for my 'word' to someone. That is why I ended the statement with " but it is the truth, believe it or not...". I don't expect ANYONE to believe my statement, without proof.

Why make the statement then? It was a adjunct to the rest of my comment, an additional 'truth' that you can choose to believe or not. It wasn't the basis for my last post, only an 'addition' that I thought some people, including you, might like to know, or at least 'tuck away' as a possible truth, and if the day comes that you hear something similar from someone else, maybe it can become a 'truth' to you also.

I completely understand your skepticism, and I would have the same skepticism as you. In regard to your question, about his inner circle covering up for Bedini, his 'inner circle' for lack of a better word, has spent a lot of money and spent a lot of time duplicating Bedini's setups, and they have results, just not 100% loopable (in the sense of taking the charged batteries and swapping with the running battery or powering an inverter off the charged batteries to restore the running battery) and repeatable results...

Once again, all I was trying to do was show you that I do know about all the devices you talk, yet, not even the devices you are talking about at 100% verified yet, and easily repeatable.

Hence, no CLEAR CUT OU plans are anywhere as of yet...

That is why we are here, you know that, we need to change that, WE need to duplicate, develop, rediscover, and engineer an OU device and distribute freely, PRECISE and CLEAR CUT plans for that device. I hope we are in agreement on that...


 

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