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Author Topic: TPU - General Discussion  (Read 289915 times)

Offline Esa Maunu

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: October 08, 2007, 05:11:40 PM »
It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.


@Esa Maunu

Have you seen any of your statement proven or repeated parts on a work bench? (Now I sound like you guys when I came bursting on!)
All of what you say is old information here. The question is - Can you put it in practice and document all of it so others can benefit?

Also - I have a fair amount of experience with SEGs. I haven't found a one that worked or been able to reproduce a working model from the information available.
What I have found is that some of the theory pans out but most of it is a flight into theology.



Like i told you before, i am also working with magnetostrictive devices in a practice.

Yes, this is not a new information. I am trying to talk about this techonlogy before also here, but it is good that there is now more interest about this subject. I hope that the information is useful for somebody, who is trying to  build tpu.

Esa

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: October 08, 2007, 05:11:40 PM »

Offline BEP

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #151 on: October 08, 2007, 05:39:34 PM »
@Esa

Thanks. I appreciate the detail you supplied and the references. I have always believed this is a root mode. I have not been able to confirm some of it to myself.
Please continue supplying relavant details.

@EM

I have found that longitudinal wave devices exhibit multiple resonance points. Please keep this in mind when going for feedback. These points are not always expected or have an apparent correlation with each other.

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: October 08, 2007, 05:50:07 PM »
@All

We must bear in mind that SM states he does not understand how the TPU works, just suspects that it is related to Schuman etc. presumably because of the orientation problem and because he states the fields rotate in the opposite direction when used in the other hermisphere.

Could it not be that the OU energy comes from the Suns energy entering the earths atmosphere, where it is then modulated by it?

I suspect the TPU gets its excess energy input due to more than one effect. If it was as simple as one source, it would have been figured out by SM originally, and by all here within a short time. I think the simplicity of the coil creates the expectation in people that it is a single effect that creates the excess energy. But the complexity of the field interactions and there results are probably outside the ability of but a few people on the planet to explain, this is exactly the problem Tom Bearden relates, you need someone who is specialised in some many technical fields...

Acerzw
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 08:19:58 PM by acerzw »

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: October 08, 2007, 05:50:07 PM »
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Offline devilzangel

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #153 on: October 08, 2007, 06:50:15 PM »
..
From what SM says, compass gradually spins faster and then eventually stops, it is possible that this could be because the rotation field creates a deadzone at the center of the ring, not because the spin is too fast for the compass to follow. kind of like a hurricane.

also while we are talking about vortexes, it seems many of us are assuming the flow is "down" towards the singularity of a vortex. BUT what if this is not the case? Hurricanes actually utilize energy flow upward. either the cone is upright with energy flowing up to the ring from the cone's singularity; or the cone forms upside down with the singularity being at the top, and the energy flowing with the aether down towards the rings.

another way of thinking about it in 3 dimensions is the opposite of a black hole (a white hole), energy flowing out of a singularity.

here is more of what i am thinking; this whole tuning and resonance business might actually have the goal of either moving the cone up or down and thus aligning the cones flow to match with the rings, allowing for the ring to draw energy from this alignment.

thought i might just throw what i am thinking out there. most of you should be able to see what i am trying to say here. (let me know if you guys want me to put a drawing up here)

devilzangel
..

turbo

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: October 08, 2007, 06:58:16 PM »
hi  :)
as my memory serves me right there was also something about drawing a lens when velocity becomes extreme.
some people claim gravity itself is a electric/magnetic force.
i do not know what it is, but i do think it is convertible into another form or forms of energy.

is there anybody getting positive results or am i the only one seeing intresting things?

M.

Hi Marco.

What kind of things are you seeing and what is your setup?

i have a setup like a jet turbine.
when i put energy into the system, it starts to rotate, it also speeds up depending on the amount of energy i put in.
when i flip over the device and apply the same amount of energy ,it does nothing.
when i reverse the polarity of the energy i apply, it works in reverse.
the potential is concentrated exactly around the circumference so this would be the best place for the collector since i did not put one in yet.
i will try to do so comming weekend.

if my findings are correct the right rotation is counter clockwise horizontal and up vertical.
however im not totally sure because i do not see how these will slap each other...
the images i am seeing are becomming quite clear lately.
but i have this lonely feeling about how much people are actually trying to solve this puzzle by experimenting in stead of theorizing.
if i do find the awnser, i do not know how to proceed...
it's like it is laying in front of me, i only need to put it together, and this i can do anytime i want to.

M.


 

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: October 08, 2007, 06:58:16 PM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #155 on: October 08, 2007, 07:12:14 PM »
Ok Guys,  here's some MATH for you  :)

Notice I calculate the Voltage and Current induced in a vibrating wire per unit length (1 meter)  

I assume a vibration displacement of 1 mm in either direction (or amplitude of 1mm) 

This is only half the fun, the other is to calculate the amount of vibration produced given a certain driving Voltage.


@ BEP
The problem with the different modes is solved when applying the FEEDBACK.   That's when we use a FREQUENCY SELECTIVE network to feedback the right frequency.

EM

P.S.  Marco,  good job, sounds interesting.  We'll help you buddy!!!  I know the feeling.

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2007, 08:13:02 PM »
TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Exactly what I was thinking before. If for instance we HAD to live with the HEAT 'problem', we could easily use this technique as a sure fire method to avoid the HEAT issue, disregarding what you could use that HEAT energy for....

So, say a TPU could run for 1 hour and then it would get too hot, then you had to let it cool for 30 minutes for it to return to normal temp, you could just use two TPUs, run one for 1 hour, then switch to the other TPU which will run for another hour, and once that second TPU is ready to 'cool off', the first TPU would have already been cool for 30 minutes, so it would be very easy to switch back again. If it was the case that the cooling time was longer than the running time, you could just use 3 TPUs, which would easily solve that timing problem.

In regard to using the HEAT, that are A LOT of ways to USE the HEAT energy that is coming off a TPU, thereby cooling it enough to run forever.

Either way it's done, the HEAT 'issue' isn't really one...

It was an issue for SM because he was only considering the TPU in and of itself, without heat transmuting additions or multiples TPUs, he was only considering any single TPU device, in and of itself, so FOR SM, and his mindset of looking at the TPU like so, the heat 'issue' is an issue...

@tao

This is probably one of the most insane ideas that I have ever come across on this site! The main appeal of the TPU is its small portable size and simplicity, the above is a practical solution to the problem of heat but totally negates the point of the TPU, imagine carrying four TPU's around!

You might as well use a mechanical OU device instead which would be much safer than a TPU which can catastrophically fail without any notice due to external influences. Remember the exploding TV, a TPU even with a decent control circuit can fail unpredictably in such a manner without any warning!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2007, 08:13:02 PM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #157 on: October 08, 2007, 08:16:34 PM »
Or you could include a cooling FAN and run CONTINUOUS  on one TPU    :)

The heat can also be minimized by minimizing the eddy losses, by lamination, but if design parameters don't permit, cooling is the alternative.

Offline TheNOP

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: October 08, 2007, 08:45:06 PM »
What if eddy current is not a lost but is a needed part in the process ?

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: October 08, 2007, 08:45:06 PM »
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Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #159 on: October 08, 2007, 08:46:33 PM »
TPU heat is not a problem. We can make many TPUs then connect to the load via an automatic switch. The switch controller will select the coolest TPU among them to the load.

Exactly what I was thinking before. If for instance we HAD to live with the HEAT 'problem', we could easily use this technique as a sure fire method to avoid the HEAT issue, disregarding what you could use that HEAT energy for....

So, say a TPU could run for 1 hour and then it would get too hot, then you had to let it cool for 30 minutes for it to return to normal temp, you could just use two TPUs, run one for 1 hour, then switch to the other TPU which will run for another hour, and once that second TPU is ready to 'cool off', the first TPU would have already been cool for 30 minutes, so it would be very easy to switch back again. If it was the case that the cooling time was longer than the running time, you could just use 3 TPUs, which would easily solve that timing problem.

In regard to using the HEAT, that are A LOT of ways to USE the HEAT energy that is coming off a TPU, thereby cooling it enough to run forever.

Either way it's done, the HEAT 'issue' isn't really one...

It was an issue for SM because he was only considering the TPU in and of itself, without heat transmuting additions or multiples TPUs, he was only considering any single TPU device, in and of itself, so FOR SM, and his mindset of looking at the TPU like so, the heat 'issue' is an issue...

@tao

This is probably one of the most insane ideas that I have ever come across on this site! The main appeal of the TPU is its small portable size and simplicity, the above is a practical solution to the problem of heat but totally negates the point of the TPU, imagine carrying four TPU's around!

You might as well use a mechanical OU device instead which would be much safer than a TPU which can catastrophically fail without any notice due to external influences. Remember the exploding TV, a TPU even with a decent control circuit can fail unpredictably in such a manner without any warning!


The most insane ideas, ey? Who said anything about carrying it around? I didn't...

Mine was a SIMPLE example as to how you could solve the HEATING problem of the TPUs in the MOST OBVIOUS WAY, nothing more nothing less.

And, since his 6" TPU weighed only 1 pound, having 2 or 3 TPUs would only make that at around 2 to 3 pounds.

SM said that the HEAT issue was a real problem, so, if he resorted to water cooling, you can damn well bet he tried air cooling with a fan and such. SM insinuated that the HEAT issue was a sort of byproduct of the conversion process, and that eddy currents were in effect also related to the conversion process. Since this is the case, the HEATing problem is almost INTERNAL to the actual conversion elements, and hence hard to COOL. So, my SIMPLE and OBVIOUS example of using 2 or more TPUs, WOULD 100% solve the TPU heating problem a la SM's own words and admissions about how he dealt with the heating problems and how and why they occur.

So, to call my idea insane, is in itself insane, because my SOLUTION is OBVIOUS, and is 100% workable as a SOLUTION...

Offline z_p_e

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #160 on: October 08, 2007, 08:48:36 PM »
It boggles my mind. SM has already provided enough information and clues as to the underlying principle and folks either ignore it or are totally oblivious to it.

I hate to start something but what really boggles my mind are statements like that. Yes. I've made them too. But now that I think about it if all the clues are there then someone, out of the billions that live here, would have a working device - not just claimed but one that is verifiable.

Same goes for the BB devices and I'm sure many others.

If billions were working on the TPU problem, perhaps it would have been solved by now. Obviously only a handful of folks are seriously working on it though.

Perhaps I need to clarify my statement:

The clues provided by SM do not on their own, give us a complete picture of what makes the TPU tick. It was never his intention to do so. However, the key main points have been given, and one must take them into consideration in filling in the gaps using the insights obtained by many hours of research, thinking, re-reading the SM material, and experimentation. Enough information has already been provided to do just that. SM said so, and even BB said so, regarding the TPU info that is available.

It was not my intention to imply SM has handed us all the secrets to the TPU technology on a silver platter. I'm pretty sure he wanted us to do our homework and open our eyes. IMHO most have failed in this regard.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #160 on: October 08, 2007, 08:48:36 PM »
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Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #161 on: October 08, 2007, 09:47:31 PM »
@EM & TAO

Clearly the penny has not dropped regarding the heat issue, it cannot be viewed in isolation from the coil degradation issue...

A fan will not help as SM stated, the heat can be radiated away, but the heat is caused by mechanical stresses in the coil, presumably due to its expansion and retraction because of magnetorestriction, which degrade its material over time.

A single TPU cannot run for a prolonged period of time because of the degradation of the coil material, of which the heat is a by-product. Removing the heat with any form of cooling device will not make a TPU reliable, the heat does not cause the damage, the heat is a result of the damage being caused.

Making the coil from another material may reduce the damage to the coil, but is also likely to reduce the efficiency of the coil, producing less power, which is just as undesirable as the heat and damage which it eliminates.

Tao's example of switching between four TPU's will remove the problem of a single TPU shutting down due to excess heat, however it will not prevent the degradation of the coil material which is cumulative. Resting a coil while another does the work instead will prolong its life, but only because it is being used less over a given period of time, not because resting it allows it to repair or regenerate, it simple cannot do that. The total MTBF for a TPU coil will always be the same, resting has no net effect.

This demonstrates the first fundamental flaw in the TPU's design, because of the mechanical effect that it utilises, it has an unavoidable mechanical mode of failure, despite being 'solid state'. It just flexes rather than rotates, in effect it is a linear motor and will eventually fail like one.

The second fundamental design flaw is that the TPU cannot be reliably 'caged', there is always a chance of the exploding TV effect occurring no matter how good the control circuit is. Like all OU devices it is not a closed thermodynamic system, it is energetically coupled to the source of the OU energy, which many assume to be the Earth's magnetic field. The source of energy which it is coupled to is however largely irrelevant, but we do know that whatever it is, it is very powerful, as evidenced by the TPU's output. The point is that the source is not 'controlled' by the control circuit, no one knows what controls it or how stable it is. A sufficiently large surge in the coupled energy source will feedback into the device. No control circuit can prevent this. I would suspect that a lightning strike in the local area would smoke all the TPU's around.

In essence the TPU control circuit stops the TPU calling down too much power from the source, but there is nothing to prevent the source sending down too much power to the TPU! The TPU is a loosly coupled device.... no cure for that...

It is clear that when this 'replication' project is successful what comes out of it, in order to meet everyones aspiration for a portable and reliable source of energy, will be a TPU in name only. A 'pure' SM style TPU cannot achieve the desired goal of reliability which this group needs because it's fundamental operating principles prevent is from being reliable.

What comes out of this group will not be covered by any TPU patents if they exist, because in essence it cannot and will not be a TPU!  8)

@tao, your idea is clearly insane, if you do not desire the TPU to be portable why bother working on it! There are many other much more efficient and reliable mechanical OU devices (and yes a TPU is mechanical for the reasons given above) which can serve the same purpose as a non-portable TPU for instance:

http://www.altenergy-pro.com/device09-2.htm

DOH! And the device above could easily be made portable, and scaled, the motor could easily be replaced by switchable magnets. Since it does not operate using magnetorestriction it will also not suffer from the coil degradation and reliability issues which the TPU does. Odds are that because it is simpler it may not explode so easily too!

Acerzw
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 10:25:33 PM by acerzw »

Offline Grumpy

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #162 on: October 08, 2007, 09:57:44 PM »

i have a setup like a jet turbine.
when i put energy into the system, it starts to rotate, it also speeds up depending on the amount of energy i put in.
when i flip over the device and apply the same amount of energy ,it does nothing.
when i reverse the polarity of the energy i apply, it works in reverse.
the potential is concentrated exactly around the circumference so this would be the best place for the collector since i did not put one in yet.
i will try to do so comming weekend.

if my findings are correct the right rotation is counter clockwise horizontal and up vertical.
however im not totally sure because i do not see how these will slap each other...
the images i am seeing are becomming quite clear lately.
but i have this lonely feeling about how much people are actually trying to solve this puzzle by experimenting in stead of theorizing.
if i do find the awnser, i do not know how to proceed...
it's like it is laying in front of me, i only need to put it together, and this i can do anytime i want to.

M.
 

I don't think that a "slap" is required in a rotational mode.


Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #163 on: October 08, 2007, 10:06:58 PM »
I'm realy stuck on this simpler LINEAR concept derived from the TPU, can't you tell?   LOL  :)

If this doesn't work, then we know it has to be the CIRCULAR nature of the TPU, that makes it work.


Here's a simpler setup then my previous one.   Just a rod with magnets attached at the end.  The magnets also BIAS the Iron.  :)

How much simpler can one get?

EM

Offline acerzw

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #164 on: October 08, 2007, 10:18:35 PM »
@EM

Yes, your concept is good, but I think magnetorestricition is only one of several effects that combine to produce the energy, their is nothing to stop the magnetorestriction occuring in a circular coil, but the circle is essential because it creates the vortex which then draws down the power...

Does the magnetorestictive flexing of the coil material affect its capacitance, and when the material relaxes does its contraction create BEMF?

Acerzw

 

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