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Author Topic: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor  (Read 11267 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« on: September 21, 2007, 07:27:38 AM »
Ive been observing several linear motors in action, and they all have similar features::

a (small) sticky point, just before entrance onto the track, and a (large) sticky point at or near the end of the track.

Now, if you can imagine a Wheel (instead of a car) whos circular path of motion was positioned between the 2 sticky spots, so the drive magnets enter the track, and be propelled down the track, then arc out before they reach the sticky-point at the end.

Has this been investigated here already? anyone have thoughts about this kind of set-up?

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Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« on: September 21, 2007, 07:27:38 AM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 05:38:23 PM »
Hi,

I think it is an interesting idea and I have not seen such arrangement anywhere here or on the web.

Could you doodle in MS Paint a simple drawing how you imagine your setup?

Regards,  Gyula


Offline ken_nyus

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 07:51:46 PM »
Now, if you can imagine a Wheel (instead of a car) whos circular path of motion was positioned between the 2 sticky spots, so the drive magnets enter the track, and be propelled down the track, then arc out before they reach the sticky-point at the end.

The "arc-out" will become the sticky point, no?


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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 07:51:46 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 03:58:51 AM »
pardon my unartistic abilities, the magnets should (in theory) be all evenly spaced and same size disk magnets.

all in repulsion to one another (same sides facing each other)

From what i can see with flux-paper and my fero-oil the "sticky points" are at (or near) the ends of the track where the opposite polarity comes up to meet them. at points before this, there should be "pure repulsion"

maybe im wrong here, perhaps the sticky-points will readjust themselves to catch a magnet entering and leaving the track from the middle.....

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 04:03:10 AM »
Sorry guys, pardon my ignorance.

What exactly is a " CIRCULAR LINEAR magnetic motor" other than an oxymoron?

Hans von Lieven

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 04:03:10 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 04:07:06 AM »
that was the best terminology i could come up with for using a "linear-motor" track to drive a "circular" wheel.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 04:08:14 AM »
also i should note that with the above scetch, the magnets on the wheel should be slightly angled to produce directional motion.

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 04:08:14 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2007, 04:16:44 AM »
LOL

Hans von Lieven

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 05:28:24 PM »
pardon my unartistic abilities, the magnets should (in theory) be all evenly spaced and same size disk magnets.

all in repulsion to one another (same sides facing each other)

From what i can see with flux-paper and my fero-oil the "sticky points" are at (or near) the ends of the track where the opposite polarity comes up to meet them. at points before this, there should be "pure repulsion"

maybe im wrong here, perhaps the sticky-points will readjust themselves to catch a magnet entering and leaving the track from the middle.....

Hi,

Thanks for the drawing, now I understand.  Although a definite yes or no as to the operation could only be given by practical tests, I would tend to agree with your last sentence above.  (Selecting one rotary moment, an approaching magnet will encounter the same strength of repel force like a just leaving magnet, hence no force remains for any torque for rotation.)

Let me refer to an old thread from last year where a working setup from Helmut Goebkes was shortly mentioned:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,828.msg8155.html#msg8155

Though the working time of his setup was very short (he stated 40-50 second of self-run, starting by itself from zero speed!!!),  a reconstruction with ceramic magnets may well be worth the trouble.  With ceramic magnets eddy currents cannot be created in them and the amount of eddies in the soft iron parts will also be reduced, especially by using laminations.  By the way, the setup shown by Helmut can be found in some old patents too.

Regards
Gyula

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 05:28:24 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2007, 09:15:54 AM »
interesting is the intentional diversion of the magnetic fields, almost like Gray's motor.

Offline Dreamer

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 06:39:57 PM »
Hi Sm)key2,

Mmmm, there seems to be an 'oxymoron' in your description of a 'Circular & Linear' Magnetic Motor, but HEY! who cares? The ancient Greek philosophers would allow for a line to exist in a circle of infinite radius/diameter.

As a kid I had a windup train set, with a circular track, The train ran on 'lines'. So I think we all know what you are talking about!

Here are some ideas from Cambridge University Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics. D.A.M.T.P.(I was a 'Visitor' circa 1983/4). I will try to avoid mathematics! as it tends to be rather intimidating.

OK. Let's replace the 'Train Set' with something a bit more up to date, and I hope this analogy does not 'wind you up' as well?

'Bullet Trains' run on magnetic levitation, but superconducting toy trains are beyond most kid's finances (Oil Sheik's Kids excepted), So let's assume we substitute permanent magnets, and make sure the little blighters don't come loose like the recent health and safety scare with Matel's little dolls. IMPORTANT WARNING! Don't let kids swallow Neodymium Magnets! keep them out of harms way!

Check out 'Cup-Cone' magnetic bearings. The 'magnetic cone' is opposed by the 'magnetic cup' allowing for an almost friction free rotation. So let's extend this concept to your 'Circular Linear Magnetic Motor' or our 'Toy Bullet Train & Track'

We now have our 'Circular Track' laid out. We insert the opposition magnets of our 'Toy Bullet Train' into the track.....then give the train a gentle push. Only wind resistance slows it down. and if it is quite heavy it will go round the track many times before stopping.

Now.....here comes the 'Over-Unity' bit......! ;D

 ::)

By a cunning mechanical arrangement, we have made the magnets in the railway line 'THE STATOR' capable of release with say a hair trigger latch mechanism, actuated by the last coach of the 'Toy Bullet Train' (perhaps a tiny magnet pulls the trigger as it passes each stator magnet?)

Now these just happen to be very strong Neodymium Magnets, TWANG! they jump into the air with a snap as the end of the Bullet Train passes, Then as it will take a second or two for the bullet train to complete the circuit, each of these 'Stator' magnets will not have any opposing magnet to prevent gravity from returning them to their original position. Indeed it might????? be possible for the release mechanism to arrange for each falling magnet to give a little shove to the end of our 'Toy Bullet Train' (synchronised trigger/release mechanism?)

So to watch our toy train set, we see a 'cascade', or 'bucket-brigade' of strong kinetic events, namely Neodymium Magnets being released from their tether. Those things can lift heavy weights! we have a whole circular track with hundreds of them.

When the 'Toy Bullet Train' completes it's circuit, it's front end (Where the driver sits) knows nothing about all these missing magnets from the circular linear track, They may have gone AWOL on the back coach, but that just shoved????? the train forward???

Now what do we do with all that Excess energy from all those strong magnets. My guess is that we make them do a bit of Faraday Induction. If each alternate magnet was..........??????..... let's build it and find out!....... We will get an alternating current output.......... It's only a Dream!.... but WHY NOT?

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 06:39:57 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2007, 02:13:39 PM »
Ive been observing several linear motors in action, and they all have similar features::

a (small) sticky point, just before entrance onto the track, and a (large) sticky point at or near the end of the track.

Now, if you can imagine a Wheel (instead of a car) whos circular path of motion was positioned between the 2 sticky spots, so the drive magnets enter the track, and be propelled down the track, then arc out before they reach the sticky-point at the end.

Has this been investigated here already? anyone have thoughts about this kind of set-up?
There is force that accelerates the magnet on the track. The same force will prevent the magnet to leave the track, as the force is allways pointing towards the largest sticky point. The magnet mass and the distance of acceleration, will determind the speed of the magnet. The energy conserved in the moving mass, must be used to get the moving mass out of the track. Unless the magnet suddenly gains weight, the magnet will not leave the track. And gaining weight to a moving object require energy.

Br.

Vidar

Offline Dreamer

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Re: Circular Linear Magnetic Motor
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2007, 02:59:13 PM »
 Here is a schematic drawing of two bar magnets (Neodymium) arranged with steel pole pieces to form a magnetic levitation track. The magnet poles are through the thin section of the magnet, i.e. left/right for N/S.

On a circular track, there would be no 'sticky' points. as long as the magnets were continuous. I have not drawn a 'Trapped' magnetic track, but try to visualise a third track for that concept.

I hope I am not at cross-purposes with the tenure of this thread? my appologies if I am I am a newbee here, so I hope I have managed to work the picture insert? (http://)

 

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