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Author Topic: Circuit setups for pulse motors  (Read 268081 times)

capthook

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #405 on: March 17, 2008, 06:50:31 AM »
I ran across this excellent site that provides extensive wiring/coil/generator/motor details/theory/construction.  I learned a ton!
http://www.stanford.edu/~hydrobay/lookat/pmg.html

On Ramset sheaths - it appears "Redhead" anchor bolts are a subunit of Ramset.  Redhead bolts can be found at HomeDepot.  However, they are silver in color rather than copper looking - so the material composition is different than hoptoads examples.
Testing coils using a core of only the sheaths has not proved promising.  The sheath structure may be beneficial - however - they still need something inside of them other than air IMO.  I've decided to go with 3/8" x 3" Redhead anchor bolts as the core - bolt and all.  The smaller "head" at the end of the bolt over a hex bolt at least results in less drag.

I would still love to hear results of any with experience using magnetite cores.  Has anyone tested these? Anyone know of a source to order "magnetite"?

CH
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 10:25:31 AM by capthook »

hoptoad

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #406 on: March 17, 2008, 08:32:58 AM »
@capthook
Ramset sent me this information below, a few days ago. It may help in identifying the difference, if any, of the two sheaths, that is, the one I used, and the one you have presently. The sheaths I used were manufactured in the late 1980's and I purchased them originally for use in building my home in 1990.
 
Quote Ramset :   "HOP these anchors were made in Australia  I T W  still owns both companies    DYNABOLT GOLD   was the name when we had them forsale in USA  I asked my brother to check our old stock   which he will do tomorrow   However In discussing with USA engineering  product was manu. to ASTM spec grade 5  still have more info to follow  If any of your crew is was a contracter in Australia call Ramset there ask for specs for bidding a job     submittle info    Chet"

It is quite possible that the alloys are the same, but with a different coating, or they are completely different:D :D. Hopefully you may receive more info from fellow overunity.com forum member, Ramset.

Cheers ......KneeDeep

capthook

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #407 on: March 17, 2008, 12:52:48 PM »
Thanks hoptoad!
- - -

Can someone give me power consumption comparions between using a Hall IC and a Optointerrupter as a switching device?  Optical will offer me greater control - I would prefer it - but the lowest total power cost is what I need.

What are the voltage drop comparisons?  What about duty times?  An Optointerupter will shine all the time while Hall IC pulses.  Hall IC leakages etc.....

Which solution will result in the least amount of power consumption?

Links to datasheets if that helps in answering......
(Hall: http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/1101/1101.pdf
(Optical: http://www.optekinc.com/pdf/OPB355-360to390-820-860to890.pdf)

Thanks   :)

CH

tropes

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #408 on: March 17, 2008, 02:25:09 PM »
Can someone give me power consumption comparions between using a Hall IC and a Optointerrupter as a switching device?  Optical will offer me greater control - I would prefer it - but the lowest total power cost is what I need.

What are the voltage drop comparisons?  What about duty times?  An Optointerupter will shine all the time while Hall IC pulses.  Hall IC leakages etc.....
CH
You can use a separate circuit (1.5-2v rechargable battery) to power the LED side of the optointerrupter. No power surges, no fried Hall sensors.
Tropes

tropes

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #409 on: March 17, 2008, 05:56:31 PM »
This is an example of Gyulasun's circuits for dummies like me.

capthook

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #410 on: March 18, 2008, 03:29:17 AM »
Tropes -
Thank you for the info and the circuit diagram!!  A picture is worth 1,000 words!

With power losses/consumption of the switching method being the primary concern - I have to agree with casman - a reed switch is going to offer the best solution.  I want optical - would like Hall - but I can't stomach the losses!!  I guess sometimes a club (low-tech) is better than a cannon.

CH

capthook

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #411 on: March 18, 2008, 04:50:54 AM »
What?s the best/most efficient/least losses way to rectify a 3-phase, Y-configured AC output to DC battery?

I?m trying to finalize my circuit/wiring for my low RPM ? low voltage motor/generator.  I plan on using three-phase, Y-configured wiring for my output so that voltage adds.  This is the way to go ? yes?
From there ? I need to rectify.

An aspect of most rectification is a loss from peak input voltage to the peak output voltage, caused by the built-in voltage of the diodes (around 0.7 V for ordinary silicon p-n-junction diodes and 0.3 V for Schottky diodes).

Bridge rectification for three-phase AC will have a loss of three diode drops. This may represent significant power loss in very low voltage supplies.

And what if I wanted to implement a voltage-doubling rectifier?

What is the best rectifying circuit solution to provide the lowest drop?  Schottky ? MOSFET ? SCR ? Germanium etc??.?

I understand Schottky setup (like picture below)? clueless on aspects of the others??.
It sounds like MOSFET will further reduce voltage drop? (eliminate .9v diode drop)
How to use MOSFET if so??

CH

==============
Info compiled from the web:

Instead of using a readily-made rectifier, use 6 schottky diodes 1N5818. This way you reduce the voltage drop in the rectifier from 3 x 0.7 = 2.1 V to 3 x 0.3 = 0.9 V

- - -
Metal-Oxide Semiconductor, Field-Effect Transistor
In recent years semiconductor synchronous rectifiers have been designed; using MOSFET transistors, they can also rectify with a very low forward voltage drop and have the additional advantage of being able to switch at extremely high speeds. Semiconductor synchronous rectifiers are now widely used in those electronic power supply units designed for very low output voltages (where the voltage drop in an ordinary rectifier would represent an unacceptable fraction of the total output voltage).

The synchronous rectification is a technique for improving efficiency of power converters in power electronics. It consists of connecting a diode and a transistor (usually a power MOSFET) in parallel. When the diode is forward-biased, the transistor is turned on, to reduce the voltage drop. When the diode is reverse-biased, the transistor is turned off, so no charge can flow through the circuit. This way, a rectifying characteristic is obtained, without the forward voltage drop associated with diodes in the on-state.

Paralleling two MOSFETs reduces the losses further, whereas paralleling several diodes won't modify their threshold voltage.
- - -
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 05:16:00 AM by capthook »

tropes

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #412 on: March 18, 2008, 04:58:34 AM »
Tropes -
Thank you for the info and the circuit diagram!!  A picture is worth 1,000 words!

With power losses/consumption of the switching method being the primary concern - I have to agree with casman - a reed switch is going to offer the best solution.  I want optical - would like Hall - but I can't stomach the losses!!  I guess sometimes a club (low-tech) is better than a cannon.

CH
CH
I'm glad to hear you have found the best solution for your set-up. It took me years going from Star commutator to Reed switch to Hall IC to Optointerrupter.
Tropes

hoptoad

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #413 on: March 18, 2008, 07:01:21 AM »
There are still losses in the reed switch which are photonic, acoustic, and mechanical.

But IMHO, the small plasma arc that is created in both a reed switch and a star commutator, or any other mechanical contact arrangement, is the real curiosity here.

Classic theory states there are always losses. Yet Tesla began his lifelong pursuit of tapping "that great energy" after studying the sparks produced by momentary (mechanical) switching of DC into inductive loads. The sparks intrigued him. Much later he would refer to radiant energy when he spoke of them.

Whilst opto-coupling will give you far better accuracy, reliabilty, etc, than any other switching method, it may not be the best method for what you are all trying to achieve. Which is O/U.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 08:51:16 AM by hoptoad »

casman1969

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #414 on: March 18, 2008, 03:29:18 PM »
You know, its's really tough to just leave things alone and let it run, soooooo..,
I changed up a couple of things.
I now have a two coils (Adams style) in the attract mode. Found that my hollow core only really works in the repel mode or as a pickup so I'm using it as a pickup right now. Still firing seperately but still using my 3A reeds for switching. I do like the arcing within these switches for reasons stated above. This configuration appears to be slightly better in that I can take the center tap of my drive coils and run through a FWB feeding another 9AH battery which charges at the rate of .1V every ten minutes. Loose .01V in that time on the drive battery.
Awaiting the arrival of my new scope to better time and understand the various complex wave forms I'm getting from this arrangement. BTW, to shorten my trigger pulses I've been using some magnetic shielding arround the trigger reeds. Only the scope will confirm that is working.
Also, the two drive coils are wound arround a standard 1/2" bolt with no head. This does aide the attraction mode drive being used.

Will consider the opto answer when the biger unit is complete as photo/opto answer is not really condusive to my bicycle wheel.

Carl

casman1969

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #415 on: March 18, 2008, 03:53:36 PM »
Just a note.
Charging slowed down considerably once I reached 12.96 on the charge battery.

tropes

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #416 on: March 18, 2008, 05:29:00 PM »

[/quote]
There are still losses in the reed switch which are photonic, acoustic, and mechanical.
...
Whilst opto-coupling will give you far better accuracy, reliabilty, etc, than any other switching method, it may not be the best method for what you are all trying to achieve. Which is O/U.

Hoptoad
Your edited comments imply that the reed switch may somehow be a better switching method than an optointerrupter if one's goal is to achieve overunity. Explain.
Tropes

hoptoad

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #417 on: March 19, 2008, 09:14:25 AM »
Hoptoad
Your edited comments imply that the reed switch may somehow be a better switching method than an optointerrupter if one's goal is to achieve overunity. Explain.
Tropes

Hi Tropes,
"Explain"   :D :D        I wish I could. Especially my last post, which, when I merely wanted to P.S. to what I'd already written, I goofed and deleted the original post altogether. Doh!  :-\

Now about O/U......   A couple of posts back, I acknowledged that since I have never personally achieved O/U, I can only be considered a student in this forum. However, I came to this thread some time ago as you recall, and told you of a friend who seemingly had achieved O/U, even though only feebly.

I still think the effect was more directly associated with the spark in his mechanical switching, than the magnetic properties of the circuit. Whilst the inductive property of the coil is responsible for the large spikes in voltage, and so is indirectly associated with the self charging effect, it seems the sparking which is the result of the voltage spikes, is the prime suspect.  Robert Adams stated that the self charging capability (of his pulsed motor) was lost when semi-conductor switching was used.

I have read other experimenters experiences and supporting data and outcomes, who seemed to have achieved the same feeble possible O/U effects, and they all used high impedance coils (which accounts for low current consumption and losses in the first place), and mechanical switching, which produced sparks. (which may be accounting for the unexplained energy entering into the system) (or maybe not   :D  ???)

Electric sparks are not like a normal chemical burning flame, which produce mostly stable oxides. Instead, they produce a mixture of ions, free electrons and some stable oxides. High energy ions are "PLASMA" and plasmas have a whole field of physics devoted to them.

High energy ions can be produced by electrical arcing (sparks) !  .....hmmmm   Tesla Coil.....lots of sparks  :o
Conversely, the presence of high energy ions and free electrons facilitates arcing.
Under certain conditions, it may well be possible that plasma helps to create more plasma by a cascading reaction.

The "filamentary" nature of plasmas contained in magnetic fields, revealing the "strange" two direction (double) spiral structure of high energy ion propagation has raised a lot of "conventional" physicists eyebrows lately!

Semi conductors by their very nature may prevent any "strange" double direction electrical energy manifestation, because they are biased to allow flow in one direction only. (an assumption of course, on my behalf )  :-\

Cheers all   ...KneeDeep


capthook

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #418 on: March 19, 2008, 12:54:37 PM »
MOSFET rectifying - - Shouldn't everyone be using this?

Anyone with advice/circuit/insight?  Has anyone done this?

I have reduced my rectifying voltage drop from 2.8 volts to 1.2 volts via individual schottky diodes - but it appears I can reduce it even further.......(Me wanna!) :o
- - - - -
Synchronous rectification is a technique for improving efficiency of power converters in power electronics. It consists of connecting a diode and a transistor (usually a power MOSFET) in parallel. When the diode is forward-biased, the transistor is turned on, to reduce the voltage drop. When the diode is reverse-biased, the transistor is turned off, so no charge can flow through the circuit. This way, a rectifying characteristic is obtained, without the forward voltage drop associated with diodes in the on-state.

Paralleling two MOSFETs reduces the losses further, whereas paralleling several diodes won't modify their threshold voltage.
- - - - -

CH

tropes

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Re: Circuit setups for pulse motors
« Reply #419 on: March 19, 2008, 03:13:08 PM »

Hi Tropes,
"Explain"   :D :D        I wish I could. Especially my last post, which, when I merely wanted to P.S. to what I'd already written, I goofed and deleted the original post altogether. Doh!  :-\

Now about O/U......   A couple of posts back, I acknowledged that since I have never personally achieved O/U, I can only be considered a student in this forum. However, I came to this thread some time ago as you recall, and told you of a friend who seemingly had achieved O/U, even though only feebly.

Cheers all   ...KneeDeep
Hi Hop
Could you re-post that one you deleted. I think it dealt with the use of Mosfets and I would like to see a circuit that replaces my TIP102 Darlington pair with a Mosfet. The circuit I'm using was given to me by Gyulasun who makes things simple for me and I posted it a while back.
Tropes