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Author Topic: flux laminator  (Read 20093 times)

Offline gaby de wilde

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flux laminator
« on: September 14, 2007, 05:08:43 PM »
Quote
3 POINT INTERACTION
ABSTRACT
Unleash complimentary reactions utilizing the subtraction of contradicting actions.
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/text/3-point-interaction/

Attached image:
the top magnet inducts a field into the strips of steel, those are pushed and pulled as a result thereof (see paper). ;)

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flux laminator
« on: September 14, 2007, 05:08:43 PM »

Offline ken_nyus

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2007, 08:48:20 PM »
Gaby,

On your page with the explanation, at first you are talking about "body1", "body 2", "body 3". but then you switch to this language...

"...On the side of our to be secondary magnet ..."

You lose me there when you start using the words "secondary magnet", "primary magnet".

Can you relate this back to "body 1" etc.?

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 01:57:48 AM »
On your page with the explanation, at first you are talking about "body1", "body 2", "body 3". but then you switch to this language...

"...On the side of our to be secondary magnet ..."

You lose me there when you start using the words "secondary magnet", "primary magnet".

Can you relate this back to "body 1" etc.?

It says "On the side of our to be secondary magnet one already finds 2 poles." meaning the secondary magnet is playing a double role as body 2 and 3. I didn't know which way would be better to explain, ended up using both not explaining it at all. haha

In the drawing above a field is inducted into the steel stator strips by the rotor magnet at the top. The rotor magnet in the center then pulls and pushes against the magnetised strip.

From what I tested so far the center magnet's push and pull combined express more force onto the rotor as the top magnet needs to move over the next strip.

It's a magnetic communicator!

:-)

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 01:57:48 AM »
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Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2007, 02:39:09 AM »
common kids? I figure there are only 2 things going on (for anyone to debunk.)

1) the rotating communicator magnet is suffering incredible eddy drag from moving from one strip to the next strip.

2) the magnetised stator strip is not push/pulling the core rotor magnet.

Which one will it be?

What I think happens:

The strip on the domain-wall of the core magnet is not subjected to either pole. But the 3rd pole (at the top) is inducting it's field in it. This field accelerates the strip away from the domain wall with more force as the rotating stator magnet expresses onto it, the stator doesn't care and just inducts it's field in the very next strip etc. :D

I still have not decently tested my hypothesis but it seems to work.

Where is the flaw?

Offline brnbrade

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2007, 03:45:12 AM »
Hi gaby

Which software you used to draw?

tks
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 04:48:56 AM by brnbrade »

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2007, 03:45:12 AM »
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Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2007, 05:37:51 AM »
Hi gaby

Which software you used to draw?

tks
I use windo$ pain.  It has something spartan to it, I cant put it to words. Why you ask? I think it's an hilarious question! I've been describing devices like this for quite some time but there always seems to be something that can be misunderstood or taken in an unusual perspective beyond the subject.

What can I say, I'm an unusual artist, I do everything from web design to journalism, article writing, innovation, philosophy, I make photos, build and destroy kinetic artworks for myself and I make and drink a lot of coffee. I do all arts and I'm not good at any of them. In fact I'm so bad at each and every one it makes quite a style and statement of it's own. I mean, if you can write something more incredible as this forum post you show me ok? lolzz

From what I've tested I'm not sure the strips of steel are nesassary, you can just use a solid donut and hold the other magnet behind it it appears. Laminated would be better of course. Now I don't have the stuffs to test this theory. It's my opinion that brilliant ideas like this should be posted and discussed.

We need to figure out where this contraption finds it's equilibrium if any and why. Then we can attack this problem rather then slaughter some inventors in a septic gang bang. ::)

Holding a strip of metal on the domain wall does not induct a field into it, even if the strip of iron is inside the magnet it still doesn't induct a field over the length of it.

Quote
PM FLUX SWITCH
ABSTRACT
Method of preventing magnetic flux from extending into a target material.
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/flux-switching/text/pm-flux-switch/

As I've explained here the combination of push and pull adds up to zero.

Quote
3 POINT INTERACTION
ABSTRACT
Unleash complimentary reactions utilizing the subtraction of contradicting actions.
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/text/3-point-interaction/

This also means there is no flux inducted into the strips at this point(strangely enough).  But when the other magnet moves over the strip (or behind it) it will obviously induct a field into it. And as our strip was on the domain wall it is now subjected to both push and pull forces. It no longer sits there being neutral. How much energy does it cost to move the inducting magnet over to the next strip; is the question I guess. Troy Reed for example describes how his motor first needs to be energised then can function as both an electrical and a mechanical power source. I see laminated things in his patent.(http://forum.go-here.nl/images/smiles/icon_mrgreen.gif)


http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/troy-reed

Why use a reed switch, a coil and electricity to make a pulse if we can do it with a rotor magnet?

Who said we cant? Why?

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 06:30:07 AM »
from my own personal experiences in this area, what generally happens is the paramagnetic strips/ring/ect pulls TOWARDS the magnets regardless of polarity, and will get stuck in the spot where the flux lines are most dense.



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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 06:30:07 AM »
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Offline brnbrade

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2007, 06:43:11 AM »
Hi gaby

I seeking a free cad soft for my draw.
I uses the paint shop, but don?t very good soft to draw prototypes.
Your works is good design.

regards

Offline xpenzif

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 07:24:46 AM »
Now I don't have the stuffs to test this theory.
If it hasn't been tested I wouldn't yet call it a theory.

Anyways, it would be nice if magnets worked like this, however I agree with sm0ky2 that the magnets should be attracted to the steel strips regardless of polarity. You can try this experiment to verify it:
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7161/magdi3.jpg)
The magnets will still be attracted to the steel regardless of the other magnet's presence.

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 07:24:46 AM »
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Offline RebeLLz

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 09:55:58 AM »

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 05:29:30 PM »
Nice flux gate  :)

from my own personal experiences in this area, what generally happens is the paramagnetic strips/ring/ect pulls TOWARDS the magnets regardless of polarity, and will get stuck in the spot where the flux lines are most dense.

Ah yes, I use to think flux scaled with force to. But, I'm exited to inform you it's wrong. Flux is the biggest under 180 degrees while force is the biggest under 90 degrees. The thing is: the forces of both poles can do work in one and the same direction. But: they can only~ever induct as much flux as their difference. It will either bake a north or a south pole into something or non at all.

For doing work you never have enough poles, but if you want to induct a field you need to use one kind of poles.

So the strip is getting magnetised by a single pole at the top, then the strip is pushed and pulled but without inducting much flux into it. I'm under the impression the strips don't magnetise instantaneously so the forces pulling the strip out of the flux should persist a bit longer as the flux inducting into it. The size of the magnet and spacing of the strips should keep the number of strips under it almost constant.

The apparatus should spin fast enough for the strip to move into a repulsive position before this flux is fully inducted into it. By the time the flux in the strip ramps up far enough to start repelling one side of the other magnet the strip has already moved close to the domain wall, the push is now much bigger when leaving the wall as that what was opposed when moving into this position. The pushing pole should have pulled the strip backwards while repulsion was building.

The question is:

Can a pushing and a pulling magnet pull a magnetised strip out of a pulling field. If they are all 3 the same size the answer seems obvious? The (by pushing) complimented pulling magnet is going to win the rope pull? The push will only collapse when the strip has successfully moved away from the lone actuator lodestone inducting it's flux therein.

A huge difference with a flux gate is that the gate doesn't use magnetic forces. I thought Ecklin Stationary Armature Generator was quite a hip flux gate.

http://www.kz1300.com/ecklin/

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/john-ecklin

I envision this push/pull thing is also the big trick to use in a pulse motor. You get push, pull and a lack of back emf! What more do we want? :D

The magnetic field is not opposing the current. (http://forum.go-here.nl/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif)

Then use an air coil to extend a permanent magnet, just like those strips in the device here. But I don't like all the wires, so maybe we can make it without? lol

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 05:29:30 PM »
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Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 05:44:13 PM »
the magnets should be attracted to the steel strips regardless of polarity. You can try this experiment to verify it:
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7161/magdi3.jpg)
The magnets will still be attracted to the steel regardless of the other magnet's presence.

Here,

(http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/flux-switching/text/flux-laminator/2.png)

Now the steel strip is not attracted to the magnet at the right. It's trying to induct 2 different fields at the same time. I just place a strip on the domain wall then move another magnet over the strip. As soon as the slightest field is inducted into the strip it forcefully moves off the wall.

Offline Earl

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attracted to steel_not
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2007, 06:07:28 PM »
The magnets will not be attracted to the steel until the steel has a minimal thickness.

Regards, Earl

Now I don't have the stuffs to test this theory.
If it hasn't been tested I wouldn't yet call it a theory.

Anyways, it would be nice if magnets worked like this, however I agree with sm0ky2 that the magnets should be attracted to the steel strips regardless of polarity. You can try this experiment to verify it:
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7161/magdi3.jpg)
The magnets will still be attracted to the steel regardless of the other magnet's presence.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2007, 07:13:46 PM »
the magnets should be attracted to the steel strips regardless of polarity. You can try this experiment to verify it:
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7161/magdi3.jpg)
The magnets will still be attracted to the steel regardless of the other magnet's presence.

Here,

(http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/flux-switching/text/flux-laminator/2.png)

Now the steel strip is not attracted to the magnet at the right. It's trying to induct 2 different fields at the same time. I just place a strip on the domain wall then move another magnet over the strip. As soon as the slightest field is inducted into the strip it forcefully moves off the wall.



the other magnet is not necessary to create this effect. If you induce a field along the domain lines such as in this picture, the steel will repel itself to one side or the other, because it does not want to have both sets of flux lines cutting each other like that, they would rather travel in the other direction towards the magnetic poles.
In actuality if you were able to hold the magnet Precisely ON the line there would not be a force in either direction as they would balance out, but in practice you cannot find a line that infinetesimally small so you are more to one side than the other, which pushes the steel into either the N or the S field.

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: flux laminator
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2007, 07:14:42 PM »
The magnets will not be attracted to the steel until the steel has a minimal thickness.

2 repelling magnets repulsion practically disappears when you hold the shield in the center. But move it  slightly towards one of the magnets and it will be attracted and repelled. I'm not sure in what proportion tho.

It does show how a magnetic shield can be moved in and out of position by moving towards the magnet. Repelling magnets equally far away from the shield give much less repulsion. Even if the extra push and pull end up equal in size we still get a magnetised strip that we can turn on and off.

 

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