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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: Prophmaji on September 13, 2007, 03:55:07 AM
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I have a ER 1200 water torch, and it has been upgraded to a ER1600 with a few extra capacitors. This unit will, under optimum 'fill' (amount of water in it) conditions, produce up to 1600 liters of HHO per hour.
If you come up with a relatively interesting experiment, I can carry it out, here on the forum. Complete with photos, etc. This may be used to answer a question or two you may have about what exactly browns gas, or HHO can actually do-or not do.
Let me know. (post your request here)
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It would be interesting to see some kind of heating experiment.
I'm wondering how much hho to heat a cup of water. How fast.
Can you make your own heater to heat a house.
What kind of materials heat up faster, as in making a heating element of some sort.
Good idea anyway.
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water and metals are difficult to heat.
High resitstance materials heat INCREDIBLY fast.
I've had magnesium alloy glow super white hot, like a solar flare....but NEVER dissapear or melt. It bubbles to a foamy like material, about three times it's original size.It goes to being like a little light rock, to being like a mini-wheat cereal bit. (ie foamed corn syryp and solids)
Glass, being of high resistance, practically explodes as the 'flame' touches it. Quartz does the same.
Water will boil away very very slowly. I've spent over 1/2 hour attempting to boil a cup (8 ounces/250-275ml) of water. This is seemingly due to it being conductive and a hydrodynamic fluid.
Copper, steel, but most specifically pure elements, are the hardest to heat. Most specifically, elements that are electrically transmissive in their solidus phase.
Ceramics, etc, anything highly resistive, and has a high resistence in the liquidus phase (above melting point) are nearly explosive and emit great huge gobs of white light, ie, incredibly bright. With the right light sensor and neutral filter...it can be used to do element analysis. The kind that cannot be done in any other way.
Tungsten goes to it's oxidized phase immediately, and the rest of the rod remains unchanged. Only the tungsten immediately near the flame is oxidized,and turned into a oxide and 'gas'. So, it's a very, very, very slow -'straight to gaseous phase' situation with tungsten. Which supports the idea that HHO CANNOT sublimate tungsten, or, that it does..but ONLY via oxidation.
Everything indicates that it actually IS a 'molecular spin down' plasma energy that heats via 'ajacent to that molecule it is tearing apart' - thermal addition.
What I mean is that the material being worked on by the 'flame' in the immediate sense, tears away from the main mass, is oxidized, via this 'molecular spin down effect' and the thermal effects are occurring in the ajacent molecular structures, via radiation from the materials that are being broken down. The evidence of the tungsten rod supports this effect, same as that of water.
I've created some bizzare alloys via this device, even rubies when messing with copper and silicates.
Ie, glassy copper alloys Or, if you will transparent copper.
The HHO gas returns to atomic from expanded mono-atomic state-electrical plasma flame-but at at individual atomic structure dynamic fluid state effect, thus the 'flame' effect.
So, an electrical fluid propogation through the expanded gas, as a 'shock wave'....popping all the gaseous expanded HHO, in a dynamic flow fluid effect. The flame is electrical in nature, and it is energy release from the reduction from expansion back to the 'normal' state. HHO self collapes, above about 21 PSI. It is quite explosive at this point but it is a collapsing effect, endothermic, not exothermic. The plasma flame that HHO is, has been found to run at about 8500m/second. (the collapsing wave function of the electrical transfer in the expanded fluid)
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Thanks Prophmaji,
That was very interesting. Can the flame be used to "drill" holes in glass, with little heating to the surrounding glass and, thus, less chance of breaking the object by thermal stresses?
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Is it possible to heat a high resistive material which in turn heats up the water in a cup for example.
Or will the material break down under the flame.
Ceramic I would have thought worked but it looks like it completely destroys it.
Maybe it's good to experiment with different elements.
I know it might be expensive undertaking. But take some radioactive material and see if stops it.
Get a geiger counter, before and after. That would be interesting to see.
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Thanks Prophmaji,
That was very interesting. Can the flame be used to "drill" holes in glass, with little heating to the surrounding glass and, thus, less chance of breaking the object by thermal stresses?
If the flame comes near glass thinner than about two inches thick, it will virtually explode the glass on contact. it disrupts the surface molecular structure ...immediately. I'm using the word flame, but it is not a flame as you traditionally know it. It is more of an 'interesting energy interaction region' than anything else.
once again, glass is highly electrically resistive and the effect is abrupt and intense. Brick makes for a nice white light flare.
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Dear ProphMaji:
I'm fascinated by the mention of "transparent copper" You say you have actually made a copper silicate alloy!?!?!? That could alone revolutionize materials science!!!
Wheter HHO generation is OU or not, I think it has enough weird properties to be of interest per se and it's a shame science pays nil attention to this fantastic phenomena.
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Due to the way that the HHO gas works, it's difficult to say wether it is truly transparent copper or not, through simple eyeball observation. I stated that to get people thinking a bit.
One other thing that it can also be is..... semiconductive silicate copper. It is measurably semiconductive. It is copper mixed with a small bit of silicate and is now notably semi-conductive as opposed to conductive at the standard copper levels. A glassy kind of copper, but not in terms of perfect clarty, actually it's black. Copper oxide. The oxidizing effect that seems to be the main action of the gas during 'spin down' clouds the issue, literally. The action upon the tungsten seems to be clearly indicating an oxidation aspect.
It's one hell of a lot harder than copper is, on it's own. We're talking about small amounts of silicate in the copper, as well. Lots of crystalization.
As for it revolutionizing materials science, yes, that is abundantly true. There's gotta be a few hundred billion $ hiding away there, in the use and understandings of what can be done with it, stricly on the alloys issue alone.
As to the resistive vs conductive and solidus vs liquidus aspects of the 'action' upon the given element..this indicates at it is likely possible to alloy metals or materials that have melting temps that could be 1500 degrees apart, for example. This alone will create glassy or amorphous alloys.
What I do, as the 'flame' will sublimate the higest temperature crucibles immediately..is to use the flame to carve a groove in a firebrick. Then I fill that groove or trench..with lets say copper..or even CR-V tool steel. Then mix the silicates from the brick into it when it is melted, in the trench. Then I let it cool..and bust it open.
I get something like a crystallized geode, most of the time.
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Due to the way that the HHO gas works, it's difficult to say wether it is truly transparent copper or not, through simple eyeball observation. I stated that to get people thinking a bit.
One other thing that it can also be is..... semiconductive silicate copper. It is measurably semiconductive. It is copper mixed with a small bit of silicate and is now notably semi-conductive as opposed to conductive at the standard copper levels. A glassy kind of copper, but not in terms of perfect clarty, actually it's black. Copper oxide. The oxidizing effect that seems to be the main action of the gas during 'spin down' clouds the issue, literally. The action upon the tungsten seems to be clearly indicating an oxidation aspect.
It's one hell of a lot harder than copper is, on it's own. We're talking about small amounts of silicate in the copper, as well. Lots of crystalization.
As for it revolutionizing materials science, yes, that is abundantly true. There's gotta be a few hundred billion $ hiding away there, in the use and understandings of what can be done with it, stricly on the alloys issue alone.
As to the resistive vs conductive and solidus vs liquidus aspects of the 'action' upon the given element..this indicates at it is likely possible to alloy metals or materials that have melting temps that could be 1500 degrees apart, for example. This alone will create glassy or amorphous alloys.
What I do, as the 'flame' will sublimate the higest temperature crucibles immediately..is to use the flame to carve a groove in a firebrick. Then I fill that groove or trench..with lets say copper..or even CR-V tool steel. Then mix the silicates from the brick into it when it is melted, in the trench. Then I let it cool..and bust it open.
I get something like a crystallized geode, most of the time.
This stuff is really fascinating Proph. The unit you have is the one that is sold by Denny Klein?
I recall that once I made some very rough numbers with the data he provided about power consumption and HHO gas production, and based on an stimate of the energy content of the HHO gas (as hard as a data to obtain as is that one), I concluded that it was an OU process, but not enough OU to self sustain in a normal ICE generator setup. I wonder if a Tesla turbine would do the trick of getting the power from the HHO produced with enough efficiency to make the system self sustaining.
Those metal-silicon "alloys" you are having fun with seem worthy of their own chapter for material development.
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@Prophmaji: can u pls show us some pics of copper sillicate(glass) material ?
i am building an electrolisys unit for purposes of welding.....
you can see it at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3249.0.html
SeBaW
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Here's a shot....of one of the less interesting ones
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water and metals are difficult to heat.
High resitstance materials heat INCREDIBLY fast.
I've had magnesium alloy glow super white hot, like a solar flare....but NEVER dissapear or melt. It bubbles to a foamy like material, about three times it's original size.It goes to being like a little light rock, to being like a mini-wheat cereal bit. (ie foamed corn syryp and solids)
Glass, being of high resistance, practically explodes as the 'flame' touches it. Quartz does the same.
Water will boil away very very slowly. I've spent over 1/2 hour attempting to boil a cup (8 ounces/250-275ml) of water. This is seemingly due to it being conductive and a hydrodynamic fluid.
Copper, steel, but most specifically pure elements, are the hardest to heat. Most specifically, elements that are electrically transmissive in their solidus phase.
Ceramics, etc, anything highly resistive, and has a high resistence in the liquidus phase (above melting point) are nearly explosive and emit great huge gobs of white light, ie, incredibly bright. With the right light sensor and neutral filter...it can be used to do element analysis. The kind that cannot be done in any other way.
Tungsten goes to it's oxidized phase immediately, and the rest of the rod remains unchanged. Only the tungsten immediately near the flame is oxidized,and turned into a oxide and 'gas'. So, it's a very, very, very slow -'straight to gaseous phase' situation with tungsten. Which supports the idea that HHO CANNOT sublimate tungsten, or, that it does..but ONLY via oxidation.
Everything indicates that it actually IS a 'molecular spin down' plasma energy that heats via 'ajacent to that molecule it is tearing apart' - thermal addition.
What I mean is that the material being worked on by the 'flame' in the immediate sense, tears away from the main mass, is oxidized, via this 'molecular spin down effect' and the thermal effects are occurring in the ajacent molecular structures, via radiation from the materials that are being broken down. The evidence of the tungsten rod supports this effect, same as that of water.
I've created some bizzare alloys via this device, even rubies when messing with copper and silicates.
Ie, glassy copper alloys Or, if you will transparent copper.
The HHO gas returns to atomic from expanded mono-atomic state-electrical plasma flame-but at at individual atomic structure dynamic fluid state effect, thus the 'flame' effect.
So, an electrical fluid propogation through the expanded gas, as a 'shock wave'....popping all the gaseous expanded HHO, in a dynamic flow fluid effect. The flame is electrical in nature, and it is energy release from the reduction from expansion back to the 'normal' state. HHO self collapes, above about 21 PSI. It is quite explosive at this point but it is a collapsing effect, endothermic, not exothermic. The plasma flame that HHO is, has been found to run at about 8500m/second. (the collapsing wave function of the electrical transfer in the expanded fluid)
Hi Prophmaji,
Nice tests
Have you tried a container eg a cup of some sort, made of a high resistive material, where there is water in the cup, and torch the bottom or sides of it?
Will you get the water to boil fairly fast due to the heat conduction from the cup walls to the water?
A possibility of ?low energy input via HHO? to boil -> steam water etc?
Thanks
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Here's a shot....of one of the less interesting ones
Thanks for the picture Prophmaji, that's copper and glass together, right ?
sebaw
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Hi Prophmaji,
Nice tests
Have you tried a container eg a cup of some sort, made of a high resistive material, where there is water in the cup, and torch the bottom or sides of it?
Will you get the water to boil fairly fast due to the heat conduction from the cup walls to the water?
A possibility of “low energy input via HHO†to boil -> steam water etc?
Thanks
Yes. Abundantly so, IIRC. Wether it is efficent to do so, is an expereniment I've not done. Not likely to do it soon either. The flame will eat any container the water is in.
I'm off in a different direction; I'll leave that one to the interested. :)
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hho is claimed to reduce radioactivity.
I would like to see this experiment.
Get a geiger counter with various radioactive compounds.
Test radioactivity before and after. You can get a geiger counter off of ebay for under 100 bucks.
Would be very interesting.
You would cause a controversy. This is something physics couldn't explain.
At least I've never heard of something that effects radioactive decay rates.
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If you do a google or youtube search, you should find the official tape of the government test, in Canada, of HHO gas and a torch being used to lower the radiation count of a given piece of radioactive material. No need to re-create the experiment. Suffice it to say, that the HHO does that and more. I'm well satisfied that it can be used to do some quite interesting things. I've got enough going on in my life right now, that I'm not too interested in controversy, or..attention from that particular crew. Sadly, this would drastically reduce the current worries over nuclear energy use, in terms of dealing with the effluent from such energy production. However, the solution opens more mystery boxes than problems it solves.I keep thinking that the utter lack of energy research is down to a few things. -Change is coming so fast now, that any solution implemented is hoplessly outdated by the time it is actually 'on-line' as a working solution. I'm speaking about energy crisis and any 'solution' that is not 'over unity' as we like to call it. Things are changing far too fast. All human knowledge is changing so fast that the amount technical data in existence is doubling every two years. This pace will only increase. differing groups are holding back and awaiting this new 'change'. Humanity is moving too fast right now to even implement any change for the overall group. Due to this and other things...it is very likely that the internet will rule the 'change in man', that is coming.
Back to the subject at hand. for example, look in the picture. The materials have nearly re-combined back to their original masses. The glassy substances have aggregated, and the copper has re-aggregated. They were throroughly mixed with about 10% silica, or 'firebrick' which is obviously not a pure silicate. Nevertheless, the experiment shows intersting results. Remember, I have access to about 1600L per hour, so I have little difficulty in creating and sustaining interesting effects.
One trick, is to get a very strong clear column, and then immerse one end in water, then, fill the tube with HHO. ignite. Watch the HHO collapse..and the vacuum will fill the pipe with water. then do an efficency test on what it took to raise the water column height. Archemedian vacuum, anyone?  :P
Sebaw:
Yes, that is copper and glass. Or, more properly, copper and firebrick. Slightly higher levels of glassy material, ie pure quartz added to the mix, to the tune of about 20%, is considerably more bizzare looking. Near complete crystalization. The upper black layer is ridiculously hard. I had to press quite hard with a CR-V screwdriver to impress anything into it at all. It took such a serious swing with my screwdriver to split the chunk..that I cut a notable dent into the countertop with the tip of the screwdriver. Note the crystallization of the copper. It is at about 100k-60k ohms of resistance, on average, across any given half inch span.
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I just did a check on my little pile of samples and that one in the picture is more like 30% or just over of silicate mixed into the copper. It's a true glassy copper or amorphous-semiconductive copper. The pinkish part is, of course, the copper component. I again stress that it was not left to sit on it's own, I was actively attempting to move it about with the flame, to mix it with the firebrick material. I was successful. This is the outcome. I've done identical things to CR-V tool steel. Not as interesting as the copper, granted, but interesting nonetheless. I've attempted to heat teflon, which pops like firecrackers.
It should be obvious by this point, that a massive amount of alloy work will appear out of people utilizing this gas's actions upon substances, as well as complete understandings of what exactly goes on in molecular level work in this area of alloy work, and the like. Until now, all they do is throw some crap at the fridge..and see if it sticks. If it does, they try and patent the method. This is largely more of the same, but on an entirely different level.
I ran into one of the 'spooks' whom had enquired of my activites a while back. He and I had a discussion on the pace of technology change. And most specifically, how fast the landscape is changing, in terms of how many people are aware of the realities of such and how many people are interested in 'zero point' and the other names it may go under. He and I both agreed that the capacity for the 'powers that be' to slow such down is rapidly diminishing. The problem being, the exact point I hypothesized to exist (now) over 15 years ago: the pace has accellerated, and the egress of information is too great, too much, too many people. The time of the supression and control is ending, due to too many different technologies emerging all at once, from every corner, from every area of endeavor. Far beyond that which is in any way possible to deny or to control. I told him that 'carbon nanotubes' of a superconducting nature, are available, on the internet. $100US, for 5 grams. He said, "Let me guess..from China?" I said, "No, from about 20 different places in the US." "Oh", he said, "That means we are speeding toward a dead end." (end of world). I asked him to not be so fatalistic. That's the problem with some folks. Too fatalistic and too negative to trust in the human race. He should understand that there is little choice in the matter. It's coming anyway. However, like the cold war ending, one must be aware that the change brings about it's greatest dangers at that point. The stress levels and breaking points are quite high....and near.
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Hello Proph:
I am more and more amazed by your comments. Surely the HHO is not receiving the attention it deserves.
I agree completely with you about the "avalanche" of information that is quickly bringing the paradign shift, we live now in a perpetual change status that is only accelerating. The process seems to be harsh for most people, but I also believe that at the end awaits to mankind a golden era. Let's see. I for one, am optimistic pesimist (it's going to hurt, but at the end we will al laugh hard and long).
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I would also like to add that the creation of pure, small glass-like (ruby like) granules in the mix means that this can be used to create quite inexpensive industrial diamonds, for example. They'll likely be better than all other industrial diamonds, in terms of quality. Once again, the HHO 'flame' can be used to do just about anything you might imagine, when it comes to glassy alloys. of any kind. Heck, bismuth glass, for example. Anything can be combined with just about anything. I once did a weld into firebrick, of a three pionted meld of brass, aluminum and copper brazing rods. All bonded together into the same spot.
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Dear Prophmagi:
What you recount points clearly to atomic level phenomena being promoted by the HHO gas.
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Yes. Interesting, isn't it?
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Yes Indeed, It's a sort of matter transmutation!
This is fascinating and yet science want's not to touch it with a ten foot pole.
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http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=cuprates&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
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Hard to believe so many years have gone by.
I have never lost the interest in HHO, and since little more than a year ago have been paying attention to the particular development of Ryushin Omasa and his vibrating vane assisted electrolyzer. This is theoretically said to be a new gaseous form of electrically charged clusters of water molecules. Omasa’s machine seems to be one of the ones that can create a higher proportion of these clusters in the gas. He calls it OHmasa gas.
In 2013 Santilli published his results pointing to HHO being a new gaseous form of water also, he worked together with Denny Klein.
It’s clear that transmutation can happen, albeit a definitive proof that can be accepted by mainstream has not been produced, yet. The so much repeated reduction of radiation is explained by transmutation of the radioactive into stable elements.
This has also been reported in experiments where liquid solutions are subjected to cavitation.
Ryushin Omasa is also trying to patent his vibrating cavitation machine as a transmutation machine.
Perhaps the more striking result of transmutation ever published in a mainstream peer reviewed journal went by mostly unnoticed by an Italian team who published three papers of the results of cavitating a sample of mercury with ultrasound.