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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: KoenL on June 09, 2005, 12:27:16 AM

Title: Condensation/Vaporisation electiral generator idea
Post by: KoenL on June 09, 2005, 12:27:16 AM
Hi everyone,

I've had an idea for an electrical generator based on vaporisation and
condensation of fuids, and I welcome any replies or comments on this.

Basic idea is based on the fact that vapours (like steam for example)
create a charge on the surface on which they condensate. This charge
is normally negative. Oppositely, when vapour forms, the surface (or substance)
they vaporise from gains a positive charge.
(the "Mills Law of Electron Transfer Via Matter State Changes," says that
when matter changes states, (solid to liquid, liquid to solid, liquid to gas
or gas to liquid), there will be a corresponding transfer of electrons.)

Based on this, imagine the following and extremely simple setup:
A steel cylinder that is closed at the bottom and open at the top,
upon which is fixed an isolating cylinder that is open at the bottom and
top, so that it connects perfectly with the bottom container, upon which
in turn is fixed another metal cylinder, open at the bottom and closed at
the top. The top should be a cone, with the 'tip' pointing downward.
If necessary, heat (actually cooling) fins may be attached to this.
There is a liquid in the bottom part of this setup, such as water.
Now we heat the water using a simple heater or fire from the bottom.
Water will form vapour, this will rise up, and condensate against the cone
'lid'. The drops will drip down into the bottom part of the container,
where they will again vaporise after some time, and this process will continue.
Very straightforward, I would say.
Now let's say we attach wires to the top and bottom part, and attch the
ends to a capacitor. In theory, if there was only vaporisation and condensation
going on, the top of our container should induce a negative charge in the
connected capacitor plate, while the bottom part of the container
should induce a positive charge on its respective plate.
BUT! The phenomenon of thermo- (or pyro-) electricity is well known, and this
involves electrons moving from a hot conductor into a cold(er) one.
This would mean that the bottom part, which is directly heated by our heat
source, should induce a negative charge in the wire and connected
capacitor plate. More so if we would connect the wire from the colder
top with the wire from the hot bottom part...

Question: Would the negative charge formed by condensation on the
top part of our container be smaller, greater, or equal to that induced
in the bottom by heating it? And also, would the positive charge
that should be generated in the bottom by vaporisation outweigh the
negative charge induced pyroelectrically in the bottom part?  ???
I have not calculated this, and I'm sure there are some involved in the
art that are more adept at calculating such matters than I am.
I welcome input from anyone who is willing to calculate this.

Possible solution in case both the top and bottom part show to
generate negative charge, even though one may be less than
the other, could be to use diodes and either connect both to their
own seperate negative capacitor plates, or connect each to its own
negative capacitor plate. The positive capacitor plate(s) could then
either directly or through a diode be connected to the ground.
In any case the charge of the capacitor could of course be used.

If the connection of the bottom wire needs a heat sink in order
for the possible thermoelectric effect to produce useable charge,
one could be sunk into the ground. In this case we may need to
use a transformer to use the current flow produced by this, the
secondary output of this can again be routed to the respective
plates of the capacitor.

Other possible variations would be to use a liquid other than water,
that might provide a greater electron exchange... Mercury might
provide a greater exchange of electrons... It also needs much less
heat to form vapour... Downside here is that mercury is poisonous
and therefore hard to obtain in many countries.

So, what do you guys think about this idea??
Please reply if you have any comments, ideas, suggestions or other
reactions.  ;)

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Condensation/Vaporisation electiral generator idea
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on August 06, 2008, 10:14:53 PM

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