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Author Topic: Rotational PMM by wizkycho  (Read 60544 times)

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2005, 10:26:10 AM »
Good work, you are first. I'm waiting for answers from supermagnete.de and will go off today to get some steel.

Any idea how we can measure forces. For testing, it would be enough to raw measure N at output rotor and compare it to input. If there is only a little higher out, i will cut a caper...

-- Andi

Input rotor can be driven with cca 5Watts motor. OutputRotor will give cca 120 Watts.
So Let's Push things Foreward.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2005, 10:26:10 AM »

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2005, 10:29:27 AM »
@wizkycho

outer diameter: 6,0 cm
inner diameter: 3,2 cm
thickness: 1,0 cm

So they are relatively small, but easy to obtain. I will see, if I get problems.

M.

Think You would have to have very small fingers and very precise equipment to actally make this through
especially adjusting shield. But go on.

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2005, 08:51:28 PM »
Answer from supermagnete.de - they will need some time to calculate the price of such magnets.

Another idea:
If we are not succesfull with our shield we could perhaps use a halbach array. As you see, by arranging magnets you can force the magnetic flux to concentrate on one side. The side "behind" the halbach array would be not magnetic. Suggestions about that?

-- Andi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2005, 08:51:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Light

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2005, 03:45:45 AM »
"Another idea...Suggestions about that?"
- Yes, this IS idea. Good for you. And it might work because of unbalanced forces. Unfortunately ideas with balls and "shields" just a dead way. There's no questions (or discussion) about it.
Here's another very good development of your? thought.
http://ingenrw.narod.ru/Andv2/Opi2.html
just look at pictures.

"Answer from supermagnete.de ..."
- I'm buying from Dura Magnetics. No problem...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2005, 06:17:55 AM by Light »

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2005, 08:10:20 AM »
Answer from supermagnete.de - they will need some time to calculate the price of such magnets.

Another idea:
If we are not succesfull with our shield we could perhaps use a halbach array. As you see, by arranging magnets you can force the magnetic flux to concentrate on one side. The side "behind" the halbach array would be not magnetic. Suggestions about that?

-- Andi

there is no doubt that shields will work no need complicate it any further.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2005, 08:10:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2005, 08:12:23 AM »
"Another idea...Suggestions about that?"
- Yes, this IS idea. Good for you. And it might work because of unbalanced forces. Unfortunately ideas with balls and "shields" just a dead way. There's no questions (or discussion) about it.
Here's another very good development of your  thought.
http://ingenrw.narod.ru/Andv2/Opi2.html
just look at pictures.

"Answer from supermagnete.de ..."
- I'm buying from Dura Magnetics. No problem...

Have You even understood the principles of how RPMM should work ? Describe why it wouldn't ?

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2005, 10:43:47 AM »
Ok. supermagnete.de got me a reply:

Ring with 100mm outer x 60mm inner x 5mm height = 166,43 Euro/piece (if taking 5 = 46,53 Euro/piece)
Ring with 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height cannot be delivered with strong N42 force, only N38 = 224,42 Euro/peice (if taking 5 = 72,48 Euro/piece)

I will have to think about it, before I go and buy one. Please, if anyone is making some further experiences while testing the system and the shielding, submit here. I'm not afraid giving a lot of money but by now I'm still not 100% satisfied that the shield mechanism will really work. As I said, i think the inner magnets will have to be moved further away from the shield and so the repel force of the outer magnets are not that much (thats why i posted the idea with halbach array). Also I completely understand the shielding idea with high permeable steel and it seems logically.

Explain your experiences with steel shields.

- Andi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2005, 10:43:47 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2005, 12:03:20 PM »
I finally made some flux analysis. In the middle you see the outer magnet, as part of the ring. Its a NdFeB 40 MGOe, same as magnet above the shield as part of inner outputsystem. The Shield around the magnet is M-19 Steel (Silicon Iron).

This picture shows open system, inner magnet ring and outer output magnet repell:

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2005, 12:04:50 PM »
This picture shows closed system as described above. Shield takes most of inner magnetix flux:

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2005, 12:04:50 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2005, 02:15:19 PM »
This picture shows closed system as described above. Shield takes most of inner magnetix flux:

tkanks, now it is clearer what we are trying to do.
Ok. supermagnete.de got me a reply:

Ring with 100mm outer x 60mm inner x 5mm height = 166,43 Euro/piece (if taking 5 = 46,53 Euro/piece)
Ring with 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height cannot be delivered with strong N42 force, only N38 = 224,42 Euro/peice (if taking 5 = 72,48 Euro/piece)

I will have to think about it, before I go and buy one. Please, if anyone is making some further experiences while testing the system and the shielding, submit here. I'm not afraid giving a lot of money but by now I'm still not 100% satisfied that the shield mechanism will really work. As I said, i think the inner magnets will have to be moved further away from the shield and so the repel force of the outer magnets are not that much (thats why i posted the idea with halbach array). Also I completely understand the shielding idea with high permeable steel and it seems logically.

Explain your experiences with steel shields.

- Andi
5mm thickness is not sufficient even NdFeB will lose strenght quickly (year or two)  if full repel is applied.

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2005, 02:18:27 PM »
Yes you are right, but a 1 or 2 cm thick magnet will cost >300? - to much for testing...

Any news from you about building?

-- Andi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2005, 02:18:27 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline wizkycho

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  • Posts: 465
Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2005, 02:53:57 PM »
Ok. supermagnete.de got me a reply:

Ring with 100mm outer x 60mm inner x 5mm height = 166,43 Euro/piece (if taking 5 = 46,53 Euro/piece)
Ring with 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height cannot be delivered with strong N42 force, only N38 = 224,42 Euro/peice (if taking 5 = 72,48 Euro/piece)

I will have to think about it, before I go and buy one. Please, if anyone is making some further experiences while testing the system and the shielding, submit here. I'm not afraid giving a lot of money but by now I'm still not 100% satisfied that the shield mechanism will really work. As I said, i think the inner magnets will have to be moved further away from the shield and so the repel force of the outer magnets are not that much (thats why i posted the idea with halbach array). Also I completely understand the shielding idea with high permeable steel and it seems logically.

Explain your experiences with steel shields.

- Andi

If the magnets are polarized through height (thickness) than we can maybe order 6 pieces.
Three guys each gets 2 pieces. they make six but send them to three different adresses.

145 E each for two magnets which can be stacked to make 1cm thick ring magnet which is enough for testing.
i'm talking about 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height N38 ones.

I'm in if magnets are polarized through height. otherwise they can not be stacked.

some more questions:
Are the magnets coated to prevent corrosion and with what ?
What is the price for postage and packing, I live in Croatia ?

Andi, are you IN. and we need One more experimenter...


Offline wizkycho

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  • Posts: 465
Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2005, 02:58:09 PM »
Ok. supermagnete.de got me a reply:

Ring with 100mm outer x 60mm inner x 5mm height = 166,43 Euro/piece (if taking 5 = 46,53 Euro/piece)
Ring with 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height cannot be delivered with strong N42 force, only N38 = 224,42 Euro/peice (if taking 5 = 72,48 Euro/piece)

I will have to think about it, before I go and buy one. Please, if anyone is making some further experiences while testing the system and the shielding, submit here. I'm not afraid giving a lot of money but by now I'm still not 100% satisfied that the shield mechanism will really work. As I said, i think the inner magnets will have to be moved further away from the shield and so the repel force of the outer magnets are not that much (thats why i posted the idea with halbach array). Also I completely understand the shielding idea with high permeable steel and it seems logically.

Explain your experiences with steel shields.

- Andi

If the magnets are polarized through height (thickness) than we can maybe order 6 pieces.
Three guys each gets 2 pieces. they make six but send them to three different adresses.

145 E each for two magnets which can be stacked to make 1cm thick ring magnet which is enough for testing.
i'm talking about 200mm outer x 160mm inner x 5mm height N38 ones.

I'm in if magnets are polarized through height. otherwise they can not be stacked.

some more questions:
Are the magnets coated to prevent corrosion and with what ?
What is the price for postage and packing, I live in Croatia ?

Andi, are you IN. and we need One more experimenter...



BTW I'm currently searching some chinees manufacturer. I've heard they are much cheaper and still maintain quality.

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2005, 10:44:21 PM »
The ring magnets are polarized through 5mm, so we can put the output magnet above the ring.
I will ask them for delivering option. I think they can split the order and send to different locations. Magnets are covered with Nickel, i have some other Magnets from them - they are very good in quality.

Lets see what your manufacturer says.

-- Andi

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Rotational PMM by wizkycho
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2005, 08:47:36 PM »
The ring magnets are polarized through 5mm, so we can put the output magnet above the ring.
I will ask them for delivering option. I think they can split the order and send to different locations. Magnets are covered with Nickel, i have some other Magnets from them - they are very good in quality.

Lets see what your manufacturer says.

-- Andi

I got replay from chinees manufacturers
the best is:

Material:               Sintered NdFeB
Size:                   D200xd160x10mm (ring magnet)
Coating:                Ni
Magnetization:          MAGNETIZED
Magnetization direction:10mm

Grade/Quantity/Price: N38/1pc/FOB Hong Kong USD83.34/pc.
Grade/Quantity/Price: N40/1pc/FOB Hong Kong USD88.95/pc.

The express freight for 1pc to reach your door is USD135.00.

this is cheaper offer and my friend recently ordered something (from china, don't know if it is same manufact.)simmilar and the magnets where very strong.

http://www.permanentmagnet.com







 

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