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Author Topic: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor  (Read 24387 times)

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2007, 12:09:05 AM »
 ;D Hi Hans,

Yes, yes, you have the general idea.  ;D

Would it matter if it was two magnets or connected like you show?

This was just a Crazy-Friday Idea that came to me this morning. (That's a crazy idea I have on a Friday.)

Thanks for the graphics.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2007, 12:09:05 AM »

Offline jrader

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2007, 04:24:15 PM »
try this 4 a super battery,carpenters flat pencil for the positive,a scew for the neg or zink,mix a solution of regular bleach,white vinegar, table salt,got over 2 volts,alway use carpenters flat pencil,as pos tryed diffrent metals for neg,got voltage with just plain water.
                                                                                                      jrader

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2007, 11:27:41 PM »
;D Hi Hans,

Would it matter if it was two magnets or connected like you show?


G'day Dave,

I really don't know. It just seemed to be the natural thing to do to use a single magnet in the arrangement. Only trial will show if something different happens with two magnets.

Alternatively, what do you think of using a static electricity field instead, say with about 10 KV potential between electrodes that are placed where the magnet poles are now. There would not be any current flowing so it would need very little energy to maintain the field.

Short of trying these things there is really no satisfactory way of telling what, if anything, happens in this arrangement. I guess I have to get some caustic soda  ;D

Hans von Lieven

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2007, 11:27:41 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2009, 08:08:45 PM »
Hi Stefan,

Replying to an old thread. How is this for an example of creating ionically charged water?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=PlayList&p=2A541A1A1EF48674&playnext=1&index=2

If you don't allow the static to discharge, you will have charged water in each container. One H3O+ and the other OH-.

Kvolts of potential.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 03:09:16 AM by ResinRat2 »

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 01:59:22 PM »
Sorry, link didn't work.

This is the correct link address:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=PlayList&p=2A541A1A1EF48674&playnext=1&index=2

The words of the instructor, Walter Lewin, say it all. "This is the most remarkable thing I've seen in my entire life."

Can a battery be made from this?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 02:26:07 PM by ResinRat2 »

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 01:59:22 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 07:17:43 PM »
Crazy Friday Idea:

Battery charging station based off the Kelvin Water Drop Generator.

Static charges batteries.

Walter Lewin video on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=PlayList&p=2A541A1A1EF48674&playnext=1&index=2
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 08:16:39 PM by ResinRat2 »

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2009, 07:19:02 PM »
I wonder what would happen if the water was not allowed to discharge and it was instead run through the hydrogen and oxygen sides of a fuel cell? Wouldn't we then get a current produced from the H3O+ water going through the hydrogen inlet port and the OH- water going through the oxygen port?

Hmmmmm...

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2009, 07:19:02 PM »
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Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2009, 01:32:27 AM »
@ Resin

Fascinating video!

As the lecturer was asking, it makes me think about why the effect spreads the water.

It also makes me wonder a host (lot) of other things like:

What is it about the kinetic motion of water falling that is allowing it's electrons protons to be stripped by falling through an electrically conductive tube? Static friction w/ the air?

How does each conductive tube choose the polarity it achieves?

Why does the conductive tube as it nears saturation spread the water (attract the opposite charge than the one that saturates it)?

If you'd ground one side, which polarity would the other take (positive I assume)?

If you did that (grounding), would the non-grounded side result in the ionic fluid that Stephan is looking for?

Amazing stuff! It makes me look at rain in a whole new way.

Thanks for posting this!

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 02:22:56 AM »
To me this thing looks amazing. I know it's been around for a couple of hundred years and I am sure many people have tried to develop  a power supply out of the design. I just can't  believe the potential of 15,000 volts. The amps must be very, very tiny; but I can't help thinking that if the right design was developed it could somehow run a very low power water pump that could get the water back up into the top reservoir.

Just a dream, probably. I am sure the power generated by the falling water drops would still not be enough to power a pump to get the water back up. It could though, as you said, probably produce the ionized water that Stefan is looking for as H3O+ and OH- charged in separate containers that carbon rods could be inserted into to generate a power supply.

I wish I could find the follow-up video that explains it in detail, but I have not been able to locate it yet.

I agree, it is fascinating.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 02:22:56 AM »
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Offline TheNOP

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2009, 03:03:09 AM »
this might help

- Electric charge
 Â· Coulomb’s law
 Â· Electric field
 Â· Electric flux
 Â· Gauss’ law
 Â· Electric potential
 Â· Electrostatic induction
 Â· Electric dipole moment

for a short explanation
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/kelvin.html

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2009, 03:45:43 AM »
@ Resin

Actually, if some HHO production experimentation proves out (high volts/low amps) to significant production, I think your 1st HHO idea would be a sure fire winner!

Given the production of enough gas, steam (either through heating water or the exhaust of the HHO flame) could condensate above the upper collector (dripper) and be self fueling.

@ NOP

Gratzi. I was not aware of Kelvins experiement and the eskimo.com link provided some answers that the video did not (grounded drippers, etc.)

Still some interesting things to ponder. ;)


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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2009, 03:45:43 AM »
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Offline PYRODIN123321

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2009, 05:00:53 PM »
If water dripping produces voltage, would steam in the same setup do the same? or you could run it off the sun, use the evaporation/condensation to bring the water to the top, that is, if the effect still works in a closed environment


--------------------------------------------------------------------
                                / CONNDENSATION  I
                              /                           ^     I
  _______________/                                   I
 /  H20   ______H20___________/       ^       I
v          v              I                                     I
I I        I I              I                       ^            I
I I        I I              I                STEAM         I
\/         \/              I                                    I
                           I                                    I
 -           -             I                                    I
                           I                                    I
I    I     I   I            I                                    I
I    I\  / I   I            I                                    I
       X                  I                                    I
I    I/   \I   I            I                  ^^^^^            I
I    I     I   I            I               STEAM          I
                           I                                    I
WATER>>>>>>>>>>>>                            I
----------------------------------------------------------------
                                        HEAT




post from KOEN in topic: Condensation/Vaporisation electoral generator idea


Hi everyone,

I've had an idea for an electrical generator based on vaporisation and
condensation of fluids, and I welcome any replies or comments on this.

Basic idea is based on the fact that vapours (like steam for example)
create a charge on the surface on which they condensate. This charge
is normally negative. Oppositely, when vapour forms, the surface (or substance)
they vaporise from gains a positive charge.
(the "Mills Law of Electron Transfer Via Matter State Changes," says that
when matter changes states, (solid to liquid, liquid to solid, liquid to gas
or gas to liquid), there will be a corresponding transfer of electrons.)

Based on this, imagine the following and extremely simple setup:
A steel cylinder that is closed at the bottom and open at the top,
upon which is fixed an isolating cylinder that is open at the bottom and
top, so that it connects perfectly with the bottom container, upon which
in turn is fixed another metal cylinder, open at the bottom and closed at
the top. The top should be a cone, with the 'tip' pointing downward.
If necessary, heat (actually cooling) fins may be attached to this.
There is a liquid in the bottom part of this setup, such as water.
Now we heat the water using a simple heater or fire from the bottom.
Water will form vapour, this will rise up, and condensate against the cone
'lid'. The drops will drip down into the bottom part of the container,
where they will again vaporise after some time, and this process will continue.
Very straightforward, I would say.
Now let's say we attach wires to the top and bottom part, and attch the
ends to a capacitor. In theory, if there was only vaporisation and condensation
going on, the top of our container should induce a negative charge in the
connected capacitor plate, while the bottom part of the container
should induce a positive charge on its respective plate.
BUT! The phenomenon of thermo- (or pyro-) electricity is well known, and this
involves electrons moving from a hot conductor into a cold(er) one.
This would mean that the bottom part, which is directly heated by our heat
source, should induce a negative charge in the wire and connected
capacitor plate. More so if we would connect the wire from the colder
top with the wire from the hot bottom part...

Question: Would the negative charge formed by condensation on the
top part of our container be smaller, greater, or equal to that induced
in the bottom by heating it? And also, would the positive charge
that should be generated in the bottom by vaporisation outweigh the
negative charge induced pyroelectrically in the bottom part? 
I have not calculated this, and I'm sure there are some involved in the
art that are more adept at calculating such matters than I am.
I welcome input from anyone who is willing to calculate this.

Possible solution in case both the top and bottom part show to
generate negative charge, even though one may be less than
the other, could be to use diodes and either connect both to their
own seperate negative capacitor plates, or connect each to its own
negative capacitor plate. The positive capacitor plate(s) could then
either directly or through a diode be connected to the ground.
In any case the charge of the capacitor could of course be used.

If the connection of the bottom wire needs a heat sink in order
for the possible thermoelectric effect to produce useable charge,
one could be sunk into the ground. In this case we may need to
use a transformer to use the current flow produced by this, the
secondary output of this can again be routed to the respective
plates of the capacitor.

Other possible variations would be to use a liquid other than water,
that might provide a greater electron exchange... Mercury might
provide a greater exchange of electrons... It also needs much less
heat to form vapour... Downside here is that mercury is poisonous
and therefore hard to obtain in many countries.

So, what do you guys think about this idea??
Please reply if you have any comments, ideas, suggestions or other
reactions. 

Kind regards,
Koen

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2009, 06:07:35 PM »
Hi Koen,

One of the desired conditions for this to work was listed that the humidity level needs to be kept as low as possible. That would probably be difficult in a closed system, especially one that uses steam unless you could isolate the two sides somehow to keep the air on the static generating side dry. Just like at home when you have low humidity in the air and it is easier to generate a static spark.

It takes a lot of energy to produce steam. Solar is good, and it would be better than burning some fuel source. I just was hoping to get something running that could operate both day and night and didn't depend on solar power. In that case you might as well just use solar cells to generate the electricity.

Still thinking about this one. Looking for inspiration.

Offline PYRODIN123321

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2009, 06:14:46 PM »
@ resinrat- that was repost of koen's post from another topic, just to give credit where its due....

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Nanocarbon paper battery - supercapacitor
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2009, 06:34:29 PM »
@ resinrat- that was repost of koen's post from another topic, just to give credit where its due....

LOL! That's funny, sorry, I was going by the signature at the bottom.

My dumb! LOL!

 

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