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Author Topic: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power  (Read 785779 times)

Offline canufi

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1275 on: June 02, 2012, 11:37:05 PM »
If stan was just taking the hydrogen and oxygen produced by the cell and using only these two products feeding them into the cylinder than it would be a dismal failure.  Atmospheric gasses are coming into the equation here.  These gasses are not coming into the intake at zero degrees kelvin. They too have mass to convert to energy.

There is no question that hydrogen mixed with regular air will run an engine. That's irrelevant to the real question, which is: how is the Energy conserved according to the laws of thermodynamics, with Stan's devices. Just because hydrogen runs an engine, doesn't mean that you get any energy out of water. Stan's claim was that the energy in water comes from the Sun - this is not currently understood science and may be complete quackery and crackpot.

Just stating that E=MC2 doesn't help.  Just because lakes and rivers absorb sunlight, doesn't mean you can utilize this energy - the lakes and rivers will produce a bit of hydrogen into the surroundings if the water breaks down in the lakes. That energy is not available in a water fuel cell, it's already been used up in the lake and river.

Once again we are back to actually understanding how Stan's device magically stole energy from the sun, which no one can explain. All I see is hand waving and gobblydegook along with doublespeak.

Offline sparks

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1276 on: June 03, 2012, 06:10:36 PM »
  There is no violation of thermal dynamics in this case at all.   Hydrogen and Oxygen leave water splitter.  Taking and transporting thermal energy to the cylinder.  In the reaction chamber (cylinder) are added more gas along with it's thermal energy.  A reaction occurs that causes thermal energy of the gasses involved to convert to radiant energy.  The radiant energy is then used to do work.  The byproducts of the reaction are then returned to the atmosphere where electromagnetic radiation energy from the Sun is converted to thermal energy to be transported to the cylinder again and again and again.  Why do Stan's producers run cool?  Because the gas is leaving the solution.  Heat pumps run less in more out all the time.  Now imagine if instead of radiating the heat (the designed purpose) you use it to feed some secondary endothermic reaction.  Then you take the products of this endothermic reaction and burn them in an exothermic reaction.  The 2nd law of thermal dynamics tells us that this exothermic reaction will never be enough to supply the endothermic reaction in a closed loop.  Of course it won't.  There will be all sorts of losses as energy of the system is bound to radiate and not stay in the system.  It excludes perpectual motion and overunity and all that.  Which is obvious to a child.  The heat pump is an energy collector.  It creates the condition for energy to flow into the system in the evaporator.  It then takes this increased energy flux and makes it flow out of the system in the condensor.  It is not a perpectual motion machine it's a frigging pump.   Molecular vibrations or thermal energy do not go away until you cool molecules down to 0 degree's kelvin.  Stan's car is going to run until he can't extract any heat from the incoming gasses.

Offline canufi

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1277 on: June 03, 2012, 09:32:46 PM »
  There is no violation of thermal dynamics in this case at all.

LOL LOL LOL LOL

Obviously you are not familiar with the thermal dynamics laws, which state you cannot just take energy from a room temp substance and move it to another equal room temp substance unless you expend energy.   Hot flows to cold. Hot does not flow to an equal temp substance.  You're obviously also not familiar with the idea that it takes just as much energy to break a molecular bond, as the energy you get back when you burn a substance and create that bond.

A heat pump uses up energy in order to move heat, that's why there is a pump involved. Fridges work the same way.

Indeed if Stan's water fuel cell became frozen cold during the process, it would prove he was stealing temperature (energy) from water.

Since the water stays the exact same temp, he isn't stealing temperature from the water.

All this talk about radiant energy is complete stupidity.  Radiant energy was first described by Tesla as energy from cosmic waves and the sun, it's not energy from some magic God, it's just sun energy. Then scientists figured out that tesla's radiant energy was electromagnetic waves from the sun.

The term zero point energy and radiant energy are meaningless terms used by crackpots when the laws of thermodynamics are being violated.

In the case of Brownian motion, it's not stealing energy from Zero point energy or from Radiant energy.  Brownian motion is run by temperature energy (molecules  hitting an object)

I'm not saying Stan's car didn't work, I'm saying that most of you people haven't a bloody clue! You use filler terms like zero point energy or radiant energy, just like Christians who use God as a filler term to describe something they don't understand.  Where does the energy come from? It comes from God!  Why did the kid with a disease become healed? Because of God!  Zero point energy and Radiant Energy is the new "god of the gaps".  When you don't understand something, just bring in "god" or "zero point energy", so that you don't have to think any more.  I don't understand evolution, therefore God did it.

Offline forest

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1278 on: June 03, 2012, 10:03:53 PM »
canufi

You are wrong about radiant energy because you don't see something which should be obvious. Something which was a mystery for centuries. You said that radiant energy is coming from our sun and it's true but only partially. Sun is the closest star but most of radiant energy comes from cosmic background , from all stars in universe.

It is in form of different frequencies and not visible to us on Earth surface , mostly filtered out by our magnetosphere but as you know from Newton laws there must be equal and opposite reaction and this energy cannot just dissapear.

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1279 on: June 04, 2012, 12:15:07 AM »
Hi Theorists,

Sorry for disturbing.

For my part, I have noticed that a lot of inventors are claiming to run
Internal Combustion Engine on 'HHO' (or similar? 'gas') only.
This 'gas' being produced by low input power.

Strange enough, all the inventors use different methods.

IMO, the only questions are:
Is it real?
If it is (and I 'believe' it is) what about trying a replication of one of 
these devices? I did, without success. For the moment?  :P
-----------------
A witty *non* Scientist guy invented the steam Engine.
Then, a patented Scientist (Sadi Carnot) came and designed a theory.
This distinguished scientist did not invent anything save his theory.

Now, of course -guys- you do what you want with your (obvious) intelligence and knowledge.
But, what about experimenting and even inventing instead of theorizing?

Very Best from Brest
Jean

Offline sparks

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1280 on: June 04, 2012, 02:32:45 AM »
    Let's make the impossible assumption that your engine draws in air (just like a heat pump draws in low pressure heat saturated vapor).  and compresses it.  Now you have the equivalent of the heat pump compressing the low pressure heat saturated vapor into a smaller volume in order to raise the temperature in the condensor.  This is done to radiate the heat taken in at the evaporator.   So the oxygen in the air is at a higher temperature than when it was uncompressed. Inject fuel.  Your hydrogen sees oxygen at 15 atmospheres of pressure and ignites.  This is an exothermic reaction. Our goal here is to increase the pressure in the combustion chamber not heat up a building.  The fairly inert gas nitrogen  is the receiver of the heat released in the oxidation of hydrogen.  It reacts by expanding.   You will notice that rocket engines don't use hydrocarbons.  They could but they don't.  There is no need to transport hydrogen into the rocket engine using hydrogen bound to carbon.  The hydrogen is bound covalently to carbon.  In order to get the hydrogen from carbon you have to break these bonds.  This is endothermic.  Where does the energy come from to break these bonds? 
   For every mole of water you split you get 2moles of hydrogen atoms and one mole of oxygen atoms.  We dont need the oxygen gas we have some in the atmosphere already split off hydrogen for us.  What to do with the oxygen.  Well lets expose the whole mess to ionizing radiation like uv light.  The oxygen now forms 03.  O3 contacts water recycled from exhaust.  It quickly breaks down to hydrogen peroxide.  Inject this into the cylinder through a silver grid or plated injector.  The hydrogen peroxide now goes exothermic forming water real fast.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 05:24:21 AM by sparks »

Offline forest

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1281 on: June 04, 2012, 10:28:12 AM »
Tesla once worried about burning atmospheric nitrogen using his coils at 12 million volts.Maybe combusting air is just that with lower voltage but higher pressure inside combustion chamber.

Offline sparks

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1282 on: June 04, 2012, 03:40:58 PM »
  Nature in all her wisdom knows that it will ruin itself if it takes nitrogen and oxygen and combine it.  Therefore it maintains a temperature and pressure that does not allow for this to happen.  It takes radiant energy like UV and IR and elegantly captures this energy in various chemical bonds.  One of these chemical bonds it stores this energy input in is oxygen.  In an engine we take this chemical potential energy and convert it into kinetic energy of the engine.  Pounds of oxygen go through an engine a minute.  But we are lead to believe a teacup of a majical substance called gasoline is what is supplying the chemical energy to move the car.

Offline canufi

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1283 on: June 07, 2012, 02:58:29 AM »
So at this point it doesn't even matter where the extra energy is comming from.


Huh?  Yes it does matter. If the energy is coming from the sun, it's not Over unity, it's f**king sun energy.

The amount of idiocy on these forums is almost enough to drive a person permanently away from the forums...

Why argue with fools? Why suffer fools?

If the energy is coming from Stars, it once again is not over unity - it's star energy.


Offline canufi

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1284 on: June 07, 2012, 03:01:59 AM »
canufi

You are wrong about radiant energy because you don't see something which should be obvious. Something which was a mystery for centuries. You said that radiant energy is coming from our sun and it's true but only partially. Sun is the closest star but most of radiant energy comes from cosmic background , from all stars in universe.

I'm not wrong, you're pulling this radiant energy stuff out of your rectum to try and fill in the gaps, just like christians say "The energy came from God".

What evidence or proof do you have that Stan's device is pulling energy from Stars far away? Why not just admit it - Stan's device is not pulling energy from stars, it's pulling energy from Aliens and UFOs in outer space that are secretly transmitting energy from their UFO spaceships at certain radiant frequencies!!!111!!!1

No, really - God did it.  Stan's device works because of Jesus Christ the Lord all mighty.  Jesus sends energy to Stan's water capacitor only at certain frequencies, and the pipes resonate acoustically to Jesus' urination pipe on his groin.

Why argue with fools? why suffer fools?

Offline canufi

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1285 on: June 07, 2012, 03:05:59 AM »
  Nature in all her wisdom

What a bunch of woo-woo.  Nature is not wise, nature is stupid. Just look at Evolution - it created a bunch of dinosaurs that ran around killing each other.  The term "mother nature" is a fraud and a lie. Nature is not a mother, and is nothing like a mother or a  woman.  That's an insult to all women. Nature is a cruel senseless process without any concern for humanity.

Offline forest

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1286 on: June 07, 2012, 07:52:00 AM »
I'm not wrong, you're pulling this radiant energy stuff out of your rectum to try and fill in the gaps, just like christians say "The energy came from God".

What evidence or proof do you have that Stan's device is pulling energy from Stars far away? Why not just admit it - Stan's device is not pulling energy from stars, it's pulling energy from Aliens and UFOs in outer space that are secretly transmitting energy from their UFO spaceships at certain radiant frequencies!!!111!!!1

No, really - God did it.  Stan's device works because of Jesus Christ the Lord all mighty.  Jesus sends energy to Stan's water capacitor only at certain frequencies, and the pipes resonate acoustically to Jesus' urination pipe on his groin.

Why argue with fools? why suffer fools?


There is nothing like overunity in this meaning. You can get circuit running close to COP=1 but without any input it will stop very quickly. The same for living organisms. The same for Earth rotation.
Yes, Stan's device works because of Jesus Christ the Lord all mighty like everybody and everything here on Earth.
Even Tesla recognized that body is just "an automaton" ,matter is used only to repair the "antenna" to receive "living energy".
OU devices can tap either :
- alien or secret government artificial source used to power flying UFO's (like Tesla magnifying transmitter) - then energy is not recoverable, not free
- Earth rotation energy
- Earth gravitation energy
- Earth magnetosphere energy
- Sun energy
- cosmic background energy

I think it is all the same except the first source.

If that is foolish then Tesla was a fool too. He analysed a theoretical experiment with rotating ring around Earth periphery in cosmic space above the equator. Why ???


Offline sparks

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1287 on: June 07, 2012, 07:43:57 PM »
  Canufi-
 
   Nature has wisdom gained by millions of years of trial and error.  Also you obviously don't know what heat is.  The hydrogen and oxygen leaving Stan's cells contain heat.  They will contain heat until they are cooled to zero degree's kelvin    Do you have any idea how much horsepower you need to take out of a gallon of water before it forms a boise condensate?.  You take the fractured water, and  incoming air heat  and compare them to the reaction products heat you will find that there is less heat in the reaction products then there was before the reaction.  This delta heat will exactly match the amount of work performed.  This work performed can move the car, drive the electrolytic cell,  the ionizer, whatever  you want to do with it.  Now unless water decides to stop converting infrared electromagnetic radiation into molecular and atomic oscillations the heat of hydrogen and oxygen isn't going away.
 
   Meyer develops the vic.  He has a cell that very much looks like an ac electroytic capacitor to me.  He tunes the circuit to change wattage into voltage.  But there is no power with just voltage.  You can't do anything with just voltage.  The electric field accelerates electrons.  What is the electric field.  It is the thing between two spots with unequal charge.  What do we call the difference in charge between two different spots.  Voltage.  Stan built a voltage intensifier circuit.  Parametric resonance results in high high voltage being stored in the capacitor at 1 interval then the capacitor discharges into an inductor where the energy is stored in the magnetic field surrounding the inductor.  The magnetic field collapses around the inductor which then creates an emf that charges the capacitor back up.  Electricians will tell you there is no power in this circuit because voltage and current are out of phase.  Who cares you short the capacitor out and you get your power back out.  It is like a carpenter driving a nail.  He doesn't sit there and try to push the nail through the board does he.  He lifts the hammer and then adds energy for a long period of time and releases this energy in microseconds upon the nail.  Stan builds up the voltage in the cell using electrical resonance.  Look at a water molecule with it's hydrogen down one end and oxygen down the other.  The hydrogen neuclei are bare on one side.  Not too far away is another hydrogen atom bare on one side.  They are repulsed forming the bond angle.  The other end of the molecule the big old oxygen atom having shitloads of electrons is negative.  The electric field permeating the water causes the molecules  to first align with it then stretch.  The hydrogen end heading for the cathode and the oxygen end heading for the anode.  At what field intentsity will it snap.  How many electrons have to move within the suborbitals of the oxygen atom before  a coolumb explosion occurs.  Before the oxygen proton starts to push on the hydrogen protons. 20,000. 
All the stuff stan did after this was to optimise hydrogen production.  Making o4negative ions and hydrogen peroxide and electron removal circuits.  The electrostatic field seems to be able to do work.  +
 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 07:31:54 AM by sparks »

Offline erwinrernrierr

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1288 on: June 08, 2012, 10:26:54 AM »

Offline sparks

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1289 on: June 08, 2012, 06:03:16 PM »
So why does he say then "Voltage POTENTIAL performing work" ?

My guess he does not understand where the energy comes from (neither do i, do you ?) but he does know that it puts out a lot of gas and utilizes this.

  @Micro.  Sorry about the confusion.  I was being sarcastic about the voltage part.  The Electric Field can and does do work.   Where charge density relativity comes from I have no idea.  It appears to have been cast upon the void by an instantaneous disintegration of a blackhole in our local 13 or so billion years ago.  Attempts to recreate the void aren't going so well.