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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: tao on August 17, 2007, 09:29:35 PM

Title: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: tao on August 17, 2007, 09:29:35 PM
It was last year when I originally posted this information. At that time I was talking to the author of the webpage who was in communication with the inventor, who HAS A WORKING DEVICE. This inventor's name is Janos Vajda.

I noticed today that the original website where I got all this information is now GONE from the internet, unretrievable. So, I am not only going to re-post my original post here, but I am going to post a snapshot of his original site, and of most importance, Janos's 47 page scientific paper on how you achieve free energy using these methods!

I would like to point out a post I found online from Bob Boyce, slightly confirming the effects outlined in the below paper, making Bob's post a second reference to the viability of getting Free Energy from wave fields! Bob describes using 3 waves instead of two, but that works just the same as Janos's...

Here is Bob's post that I found on OUPower:


Very good link Kevin

Now consider this. Using a similar principle, consider what takes place when 3 wave fronts collide from 120 degrees apart. In water, this produces very very high amplitude peaks known as "triangle waves". You might wish to look this up if you don't understand how much more of an impact adding 3 correctly timed waves can cause.

Water does not behave quite the same as EM fields however, as we can overlap EM fields of different frequencies within the same physical space. In this manner, we can produce a greater combined impact, especially if the EM fields are harmonically related. This is what the PWM3E/PWM3F series allows, triple waveform generation at a simple level. A proof of concept device that allows people to experiment up to a level that they can try to understand and feel comfortable with.

Going beyond the PWM3 is the next logical step of course. In working with EM fields, the interactions at, and around, the focal point, can be finely manipulated via precision phase control of the applied energies. Thus we can steer the locations, amplitudes, and behavior, of these disturbances precisely where we want them to be. This is where the next generation, the HexController, comes into play. I will leave discussion of that for the future.

Bob




Here is the original post I made last year (I had to go through and modify all the image links, and all the links at the bottom because the Hungarian site is long gone now):


I figure now is as good a time as any to drop a BOMB OF COINCIDENCE concerning SM's words and a REAL phenomenon....

Without further adou:


I came across a Hungarian website where this man Zoltan Losonc setup a nice little site with many different COMPLETE scientific analyses, which are VERY nicely done, of various different 'free energy' processes/proposals. But, the headliner of his site would have to be from his interactions with an individual by the name of Janos Vajda who "dedicated his whole life to the science, specifically to the microwave technology. He worked with radio locators mainly for the military forces, and had several inventions in the field of microwave technology."

Well, this man Zoltan has put together a nice intro to the process, and even a nice sumation of the works of Janos Vajda.

Here is how its gonna go. The first section below will give Zoltan's full introduction, the second section will give Zoltan's summation, and the third section will be written by me and outlining how Janos's work can work JUST like SM's and will show many quotes from SM laying evidence to the similarities. 

Read Janos's 47 page paper, which is at the bottom, if you want a more complete scientific study of how and why you can get Free Energy from wave fields...........





START SECTION ONE
-----------------------
Zoltan's full introduction
-----------------------


Free energy from wave-fields

The free energy research is pursued mostly by enthusiastic people, who do not have full trust in the validity of the official scientific knowledge; thus they are not blocked in this endeavor by the postulate about energy preservation. Sometimes open-minded professionals (engineers, physicists, and professors) also recognize that there is something wrong with this postulate, since the practice contradicts it under certain conditions. If an intelligent researcher does not considers the dogmas of the official science to be a higher authority than the nature itself, then he has to yield to the sound reason and acknowledge and research the truth.

I would like to present one such case. There is an engineer in Hungary Janos Vajda who dedicated his whole life to the science, specifically to the microwave technology. He worked with radio locators mainly for the military forces, and had several inventions in the field of microwave technology. Since many of his measurements proved that the energy preservation thesis is not generally valid in wave-fields, he started to seriously research this "unbelievable" phenomena also from theoretical point of view, to see where is the mistake in the official scientific approach that upholds the validity of energy preservation under all circumstances. As the result of many years of research he succeeded to scientifically prove (with the classical scientific methods and formulas - i.e. without any new "mystical" theory) that the law of energy preservation is not valid in general sense for the wave-fields, but it can be satisfied only in special cases; thus it can not be considered as a valid postulate. He has written a study about his discovery which has been published in Hungary in 1998 in booklet format (on paper). Now the study is translated into English and published for the first time on this site as a free-ware, for the benefit of all free energy researchers.

This paper is not a theory proposal nor a hypothesis but it is a scientific proof, which has been already confirmed by exact measurement results (actually the measurements were first and the theoretical proof has been developed later). In order to develop a free energy machine based on this principle, you do not need anybody else?s additional discovery, new theory or new recognition. It is sufficient (and necessary) to posses expertise in conventional microwave technology and some inventive talent to solve practical problems, to understand - and overcome - some hidden obstacles.

This study is a scientific authority in itself, and originally it was meant for the scientific community to disprove the erroneously assumed general validity of energy preservation law, and convince them to listen to the sound reason and correct the official interpretation of this postulate. The official science rejects the possibility of producing free energy, since nobody could provide a scientific proof (using the already known scientific correlations and methodology), how would it be possible to explain that phenomena (exact mathematical proof is required). Now this study has achieved exactly this goal (to provide the scientific proof), and no scientist can contradict the validity of this paper without running into contradiction in terms himself. So all free energy researchers can use this paper as a scientific background and support for their research and promotional work.

Besides its theoretical significance it provides a scientific base for the development of very efficient, clean and relatively cheap free energy converters. In this case there is no need to thinker away with strange devices. Everything can be calculated, and after understanding this study thoroughly, a microwave expert should be able to develop free energy devices utilizing this principle. There is no need to research and find out new physical laws, and construct some foggy and questionable new theories for this to succeed.

The title of the study written by Janos Vajda is ?Violation of The Energy Thesis in Wave-Fields ?. Since primarily it was meant for the people of science - as an exact scientific paper - it contains a lot of equations, which might discourage many people from reading it (since for its understanding the knowledge of higher mathematics is required). But even if you can not understand the mathematical demonstration now, it is worth saving the complete study to your computer for later reference, as it has great scientific significance which will become evident only later. You can use it as a scientific evidence about the invalidity of the energy preservation in wave-fields, and as a firm base that justifies and urges further investigations in the field of free energy research. It is enough to read the explanations and very important conclusions (leaving the mathematics aside) in the study, to get a picture about the essence of the discovery.

Mr. Vajda has invented a free energy device based on these principles and a patent application has been filed (Title: APPARATUS FOR GENERATING AND UTILIZING SURPLUS ENERGY BY MEANS OF ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES, Number: P9601424, Application filed: 05/28/1996). If anyone wishes to invest into the full development and utilization of that invention, (or into book-format publishing of his study) please contact us. Please note that Mr. Vajda and myself do not share the same approach and opinion whether the complete information about a free energy invention should be shared with the public freely or not. He have spent too much time, energy and money for the invention, and therefore wants to have some guarantee that he will get the deserved remuneration for his hard work. Therefore at present I am not authorized to disclose much information about his invention to the public. I would like to ask you also, not to draw any conclusion about Mr. Vajda's study and invention based on the rest of the information that you will find on this site later. In the case you would find something incorrect on this site, it is solely my fault and it should not be associated with Mr. Vajda.


END SECTION ONE



START SECTION TWO
------------------
Zoltan's summation
------------------



Simplified explanation how to gain free energy from wave-fields

The basic principle of deriving free energy from wave-fields can be understood even without higher mathematics. If we would have to summarize the essence of Mr. Vajda?s discovery in few sentences without maths, the following explanation could be given:

When two waves with identical polarization, frequency, phase and amplitude propagate in the same direction and meet (and merge) in free space, then their amplitudes will add together and the amplitude of the resultant wave will be double that of a single input wave. This physical phenomenon is called superposition or interference of the waves, when (under the above conditions) the
amplitude of the resultant wave is calculated by simply adding together the amplitudes of the incoming waves.
The energy content of a wave is directly proportional with the square of its amplitude. This fact has a profound impact on the energy balance of the wave-fields.
Calculating the energy balance of the above example, we get that if two units of energy enter the system, then the energy of the output resultant wave will be (calculated as the square of the
resultant?s amplitude, that is) four times that of one single input wave (and not only double). As we see, two units of energy enter the system and four units leave, that means we have gained two times more energy then what we have feed into it. If we take two units of energy from the output and feed it back into the input, then there are still two units remaining for utilization and the process can go on continuously.



Longitudinal waves

The above rough explanation can serve as a first step approximation towards the understanding of the phenomena, but for its more specific and exact demonstration the use of some mathematics is unavoidable. Now let?s try to understand it more exactly with the use of some calculations but still avoiding higher mathematics.

Let us consider two identical low intensity three dimensional waves propagating in the same direction freely in a medium (e.g. sound waves in air) to be the time function of sine (or cosine). Then at a fixed point in space they can be described as:
(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image1.gif) and (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image2.gif)

using notification: p1 and p2 ? momentary values of pressure change, p0 ? amplitude of pressure oscillation, (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image3.gif) where f is the frequency, t ? time.

When they meet in space and by merging together produce a resultant wave, then the time-function of the resultant wave can be calculated using the principle of superposition:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image4.gif)
(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image5.gif)

For the sake of illustration in fig. 1 we have taken the value of p0 = 10-9 atm.

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image6.gif)
Fig. 1

We can see that the amplitude of the resultant wave is 2p0 that is 2 times the amplitude of a single incoming wave p0.

The time mean value of the energy density (energy content per unit volume) of a longitudinal wave propagating in a medium is calculated as:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image7.gif)

where (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image8.gif) is the density of the medium when waves are not present, and c is the speed of wave propagation in that medium.

Now let?s calculate the energy densities of the incoming waves and that of the resultant wave, and compare the results. The energy density of a single incoming wave is the same as in equation (1). Since we have two such incoming waves, the total overage input energy per unit volume should be:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image9.gif)

While calculating the energy densities of waves we will assume that the examined volume is so small, that the relative phase relationships of the waves are identical in every point within that volume with good approximation. If the two waves would enter the examined volume non-simultaneously, then the same amount of energy would leave as it entered, and the law of energy preservation would remain valid. But if the two incoming waves enter simultaneously and with identical phase, then they will merge together, producing one single resultant wave of amplitude 2p0 according to the rule of superposition. The average energy density of this resultant wave according to equation (1):

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image10.gif) (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image11.gif)

This result shows that as the consequence of the interference of two waves, the average energy content of the examined volume will be two times bigger than the total average input energy supplied by the two input wave-packages filling that volume. With other words if totally one unit of energy is supplied by the two input wave-packages to the examined volume then after the interference two units of energy will leave the same volume.

The above result - when we gain excess energy - is valid only if the two waves meet with identical phase (i.e. both have their maximums and minimums at the same time).

When they meet in counter-phase (i.e. one has its maximum when the other has its minimum) then during the interference the waves will add together as follows:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image1.gif) and (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image12.gif)

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image13.gif)

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image14.gif)

The two waves mutually annihilate each other and the amplitude of the resultant wave will be zero, or with other words there will be no resultant wave leaving the volume. In this case instead of gaining excess energy we would loose or annihilate the total input energy.


If the relative phase shift between the two input waves has some value between 0 and (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image15.gif) then the energy of the resultant wave will be between (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image16.gif) and 0.

The same principle is valid for the interference of more than two waves, with the difference that the maximum possible energy gain will not be double, but it will depend on the number of the components. In the case of n longitudinal waves with identical phases amplitudes and frequencies propagating in the same direction we get:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image17.gif)
(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image18.gif)
(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image19.gif)
(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image20.gif)

If we compare the total input energy with the output energy of the resultant wave:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image21.gif)

we get n times more energy from the resultant wave than the total energy of the input waves.



Electromagnetic Waves

Since the electromagnetic waves are transversal waves and consist of two components, the analysis is a bit more difficult then with longitudinal waves. One component is the electric field and the other one is the magnetic field, which is perpendicular to the electric component. The basic principle described above is also valid for this case, but only if the incoming waves have the same polarization. If the polarization of the incoming waves have (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image22.gif) relative difference in direction, then the law of energy preservation will remain valid for all amplitude, phase and frequency conditions. But in all other cases the validity (or violation) of the energy preservation will depend on the relative phase relationships and other parameters.

We will not analyze the electromagnetic waves here as performed for the longitudinal waves above, since the same method of calculation can be adapted for the electromagnetic waves with identical polarization, frequency, phase and amplitude propagating in the same direction (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image23.gif) if the time mean value of the energy density is
calculated as:

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image24.gif)

where (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image25.gif) is the dielectric constant, and (http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image26.gif) the magnetic permeability of the medium, E is the amplitude of the electric field intensity and H is the amplitude of the magnetic field intensity. This would lead essentially to the same conclusions about the energy balance as derived for the longitudinal waves above.

Now the question arises: if the basic principle is so simple, then where is the need for the quite complicated analysis with higher mathematics that Mr. Vajda has provided? The main reason is that our simplified analysis is valid only for specific very limited conditions, for a small volume of examined space. The skeptics might say that the above-determined violations of the energy conservation are valid only locally for that small volume. But since in practical cases it is not possible to satisfy the same conditions for the whole space at the same time, the relative phase
relationships would change significantly for different coordinates of the space. Therefore while gaining excess of energy in some places, we would loose the same amount at other places, and if the total energy balance were calculated for the whole space, then the law of energy preservation would remain valid. This explanation is however wrong and it can be disproved easily with careful and exact calculations even for practical cases, as Mr. Vajda has done it in his study.

A further question is that if an excess of energy appears, or an existing energy disappears as the result of the interference of waves, then from where does it come from, or to where does it disappear? In the case of longitudinal waves propagating in a medium one might imagine that the excess of energy is derived from the heat of the medium and the energy that disappears is transformed into heat (although this is not the complete truth). But the case of electromagnetic waves is a bit more mysterious. If we stick to the idea that when the electromagnetic waves propagate in vacuum, in that empty space there is no medium, then there is certainly no explanation for the question. But if we suppose that there is a medium that fills even the vacuum,
which might be called ether (it does not have to be a static medium), then we get some base for the explanation.

We can get closer to the understanding if we compare the characteristics of the energy propagation of waves, and other forms of energy propagation. First it is important to understand that in waves the energy is not transmitted by macroscopic movements of the particles that compose the medium. The particles do not move macroscopically, but oscillate around their original neutral
positions, only the energy moves through macroscopic distances. This is the reason why a sound wave can pass thousands of meters in few seconds even though the air does not move
macroscopically.

We could say that this is not a unique characteristic of the waves, since even in the case of heat conduction the energy propagates through the medium while the medium can be practically motionless. The main difference between these two is that the heat on microscopic level does not propagate in an organized manner and specific direction. It is not spreading exclusively from the
source towards the infinity, but the direction of the macroscopic resultant energy flow will be determined by the heat (and energy-) potentials (temperatures) of the different regions in the medium. The molecules oscillate chaotically and therefore there is no organized direction of propagation on microscopic level. Consequently the macroscopic resultant direction of the heat conduction will go from the higher temperature towards the lower temperature (from the higher energy density towards the lower energy density) only.

The waves however, if unhindered, will propagate from the source towards the infinity, and the macroscopic energy flow will not be determined by the energy potentials of the medium. At the same time on microscopic level there is an organized movement of energy in a specific direction. The waves are ?transparent? for each other, and they do not exchange their energies by ?collision? or by any other means while crossing each other?s path in free space. A wave will not be reflected from another wave while crossing its path, independently of the energy density of the other wave, but it will simply pass through it, as if the other would be nonexistent. Therefore in the case of waves the energy can propagate even from a place of lower energy density towards a region of higher energy density, as it is happening in the case of interference. These considerations are only the first step towards a deeper understanding of the nature of waves, and we will come back to the issue later.



Practical considerations

Finally let?s see how can this principle be utilized for the generation of free energy in practice.

To create the initial conditions of the process, we need an energy source to feed two or more radiation sources. The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization.

The above calculations of energy gain represent the theoretical maximum values, but in practical arrangements we will have to be satisfied with lower gains, since many factors tend to diminish this energy gain. Let?s suppose e.g. that the practical setup does not generate double output energy after the wave packages pass through the amplification chamber but only 1,5 times the input energy. If we make a positive feedback, then the initial external energy source can be disconnected from the apparatus without stopping the generation of free energy. Naturally the divider and regulator should feed back enough energy to continuously keep up the process and also to cover the losses in the feedback loop. The schematic illustration of the process is shown in fig. 2.

(http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp_files/Image27.gif)
Fig. 2

Although at first sight the less than 50% of energy gain of the interference chamber seems to be unimpressive in our example, with such an arrangement the maximum available output energy is limited only by the energy conducting capacity of the parts. After starting the device the input energy source can be disconnected, and the energy generation process will be self-sustaining. During the startup process the regulator feeds back more energy to the input then what has started the amplification cycle. Consequently the amplitude and energy of the wave circulating in
the system will continuously increase from few watts of the starting input to the several kW to be utilized at the output. Since there is no further need for input energy, the coefficient of performance of the device will be infinite. The level of output energy can be adjusted through the regulator, and it does not depend on the strength of the starting energy source. While few watts of input power can start the process, the device can provide several kW of power continuously at the output, even with the external starter energy source disconnected.

Using sound waves in practice it might be difficult to achieve noteworthy outputs, since the practical limit of energy density is quite low in such arrangements. But using electromagnetic microwaves it is possible to make very efficient, relatively cheap and compact devices, without any moving parts. The output of such generators can vary from several kW to the range of GW depending on the size and types of the components. As you can see, this is a real free energy principle that works, and it has been confirmed by measurements and scientific analysis. It is based
on the law of interference and on the equations for calculating the energy density of a wave, that are already accepted by science. No new theory has been created, only the existing knowledge clarified and interpreted in the correct way, and its possible new applications suggested.


END SECTION TWO



START SECTION THREE
--------------------
Steven Mark's Words
--------------------

These are direct quotes from Steven Mark about his devices:

Here SM says that his devices work like radio receivers:

Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver.No I do not want to hear feed back informing me that I am trying to convince the world my unit works on radio waves!!!.

Here SM says that his different devices use different frequencies and that the closer you get to the 'center frequency'/'ideal frequency' that you will permit more power output:
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio. The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you permit the collector to dissipate into a load.

Here SM is saying something VERY IMPORTANT, that you make several frequencies in the SPACE OF THE COLLECTOR COILS CIRCUMFERENCE and that the DIAMETER/CIRCUMFERANCE determines the 'center frequency'/'ideal frequency' of his different devices, if Steven's collector coils are indeed loop antennas then this makes perfect sense, different circumferances, different 'center/ideal frequencies':
The important difference here is that in the case of the radio, you tune into the frequency and amplify it for use. In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies within a space of the collector coil's circumference. The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.

Here SM talks about the signal source, i.e. the 'several frequencies in the SPACE OF THE COLLECTOR COILS CIRCUMFERENCE' having the characteristic that it has inherent gain:
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain. 

Here SM refers to the fact that if you were to tune directly to the 'center frequency'/'ideal frequency' which is based on the circumferance of the device, that you would destroy the device, well think about that, if SM used the technique from above and he stayed at one frequency and he looped the output at 1.5x COP to the input, then the device would surely be "instantly destroyed":
It is important that you note that you can never tune too closely to the exact frequencies of power conversion because the power received by the collector will instantly destroy it. We instead must deliberately tune off the frequencies of conversion in order to make the thing properly work.

Here SM is explaining that you must constantly move AROUND, i.e. above and below, the 'center/ideal frequency' because if you stay on it too long the device would smoke itself:
Remember that it is like a furnace which feeds itself. The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn. that is why the control units are so very important. Without the control unit constantly monitoring the frequencies of operation and making the necessary changes to keep the whole thing off exact conversion frequency, then the unit would very quickly destroy it's self.
 


END SECTION THREE


Almost forgot, here are the links to the above info from the Hungarians:

Free energy from wave-fields (Introduction):
http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/interference.htm

Simplified explanation how to gain free energy from wave-fields:
http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/studyexp.htm

Janos Vajda is ?Violation of The Energy Thesis in Wave-Fields? is here:
.DOC Format(self-extracting) = http://www.zpelabs.com/zpelabs/hungarian/study11_w.exe

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Iosh on August 17, 2007, 10:38:23 PM
Thank you Tao.
I noticed today that the original website where I got all this information is now GONE from the internet, unretrievable.
I know that this might be pointless since you kindly provided a backup of the gone website, but did you try to retrieve it using the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/index.php)? It can be an useful tool in some cases.

Cheers.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: tao on August 17, 2007, 10:41:50 PM
Thank you Tao.
I noticed today that the original website where I got all this information is now GONE from the internet, unretrievable.
I know that this might be pointless since you kindly provided a backup of the gone website, but did you try to retrieve it using the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/index.php)? It can be an useful tool in some cases.

Cheers.

Yes, I know about archive.org , but retrieving Janos's 47 page paper, might not have shown up in the archive because it was encapsulated in an exe file. Plus, I wanted to re-introduce my post and show Bob's Boyce reference to all those tat haven't seen this stuff.

Thanks...
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: stallman on August 18, 2007, 01:34:52 AM
I might sound dumb asking these questions.

Is this how SM operated his device? With electrical current waves combining and grabbing that extra power Janos discovered?

How can we apply this to the TPU?

Have you heard about the Spinor Theory where the power is gained in bumping the electron into a supper low energy state? Would this Janos idea conflict or compliment this electron theory? If it conflicts which way do you think the TPU gains its power?

Did you read this artical before your work on the TPU?

The question might be obvious or dumb but I not making that connection. It would be very helpful if you were to answer these.

Thanks,
Stallman
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: BEP on August 18, 2007, 05:17:44 AM
@Tao

I’ve read Vajda’s work. Even though the math is above me, in many cases, I understand the ideas and have seen it proven many times in antenna work. His conclusions are probably the solution to many terrestrial wave anomalies. For the life of me I can not understand why the so-called ‘scientific community’ can’t apply it to prediction of earthquakes and freak ocean waves.

Thanks for the extra effort resurrecting the information!

Only recently have folks acknowledged more power being radiated by certain antenna arrays than the power injected. Even long-time HAMs, the inventors and developers of so much, blow this type of information off as hog-wash. All the while revolutionary antenna designers implement these practices in cellular and WiFi antenna design. Even I have a slot antenna, on my roof, that puts out fives times what I put into it. The design is not new or by me. And No, I’m not talking about ERP.

Loop antennas,‘Three Sisters Effect’ and ‘Rogue Waves’ – things like that and my mistakes at broadcasting my realizations made me the outcast I am today. All three are explained with this Hungarian’s paper.

@Stallman

The only dumb question is the one that is never asked. It is very likely that the answer to your question is ‘all of the above’. – meaning those who may know aren’t saying and those who aren’t sure say a lot. It is all part of finding the answers. In any case you can find a huge amount of theories on this web site – no definite answers.

IMHO – multiple frequencies is not the answer except as results. Single or dual sources of signals is. You can have a wave interference with one source of signal. That signal can literally run into the results of itself when travelling in a circle. When you have identical signals (with slight variations in phase) running in separate coils and a collector coil between them………you figure it out. I say slight variations in phase because the TPU never seemed to be intended as an EMP generator.

In my opinion, Vajda’s work IS the formal basis for a functioning TPU, at least for a large part. It certainly works to generate EMP bursts.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: AhuraMazda on August 18, 2007, 05:57:16 PM
My search for patent application P9601424 has lead no where. Has anyone else had better luck?

AM
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: tao on August 18, 2007, 06:18:38 PM
My search for patent application P9601424 has lead no where. Has anyone else had better luck?

AM


http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=HU9601424&F=0

Good luck actually locating an electronic version, might have to register on the Hungarian patent office's system to get it, I have tried that yet. Otherwise I haven't found it, yet, I haven't really looked THAT hard either so...
Title: How the TPU might work (you decide)
Post by: stallman on August 18, 2007, 11:45:17 PM
I have been doing some thinking. First I want to start out with question then I will state my thoughts.

Questions: How many signal sources do we need? Since I guess we are using the TPU as a race track that contains scalar wave would that mean we theoretically need one source? A while back people thought the TPU spun a electromagnet around inside the TPU that would the flux would cut the Earth magnet field to generate power or something like that. Is it now believe that the way we get energy from the TPU is by scalar waves instead of magnetic wave (like the MEG uses)?

I have read 13Hours theories about how we get OU (I thought it was great). I drew some pictures of what I was think happened the tunneling electrons. Radiant energy is electron the are tunneling, right (correct me if I am wrong)? Will thinking about these tunneling electrons and their faster than light speed I figured out how someone could test 13hours theories about their being different scaled zeros and other finite universes. When an electron tunnels it vanishes, right? This is when it is said to go into a lower density universe that has a faster speed of light compared to us. When the electrons oscillate between our universe and the less dense universe it switches speads. Tesla calculated that is was going 1.5 - 1.6 times faster than light. Impossible? Yes in our universe but not in the lesser density universe (its all in the refference as 13hour would say). If the electrons are moving in between our universes like this then if we found out the time that the electrons are in our universe compare to the less dense universe then we could compare that ratio of to the ration of light compared to the scalar wave itself. If it indeed is found out that the is a direct correlation then that is a strong points for 13hour's theory of OU and of his physics in general.

Another thing 13hour pointed out @ http://jlnlabs.imars.com/spgen/index.htm. This sight shows a scalar wave and solitons following it. I'm not sure if anyone has said this but when I look at the picture of a square wave in red and see a (KICKs) scalar wave followed by (SEEDs) solitons it just makes me wonder where is saw those (TPU!). Enough with jokes but does any think the following scalar wave from a control coil pusle might be the kicks and seeds. I can't really recall (being serious) how the kick was effected when it hit those seeds, or another kick? I remember if its Otto (correct me if I'm wrong) that hit seeds with kicks and got a big scare when the machine took off? To me it makes perfect sense (I could be totally wrong) that we see seed emerging right after a pulse. And when people would tune it close to perfect power resonance they would see those seeds grow (I am not sure if went down just like that) when a kick would be combined with them. One last note the TPU (I heard this from a lot of posts) need fast rise and fall times on their pulses for the control coil. Tesla also need fast pulses for his Tesla coil.

In a side relating to scalar waves and resonance has anyone heard of Royal Rife? He was a scientist that created a cure for everything from cancer and aids to the common cold. Since I think we are closer to figuring out how scalar energy resonates do you think it would be possible to cure disease like Rife did. Tesla once stated that his longevity was probably from his exposure to scalar energies

Thats all for now. The pictures I post might be a little light and hard to read. Also I would want to thank 13hour and other that have been working on this TPU project hard. I only connected the dots (somebody was bound to do it).

Stallman

ps. sorry for the bad grammar
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: acerzw on August 18, 2007, 11:47:33 PM
I registered with the Hungarian Patent Office, the patent has lapsed and was refused in 1996, only an abstract is available online and it's in hungarian:

A tal?lm?ny t?rgy?t k?pező berendez?s(ek) lehetőv? teszi(k) passz?v szerkezeti elemekkel, k?t vagy t?bb, egym?shoz k?zel elhelyezett, elemi sug?rz?val kisug?rzott elektrom?gneses hull?mok sug?rz?si ter?ben, azok kedvező szuperpon?ltat?s?val, az eredő hull?m energi?j?nak megn?vel?s?t ?s ezen t?bbletenergia k?zvetlen, vagy m?s energi?v? (pl. hőenergia) t?rt?nő ?talak?t?s?val k?zvetett hasznos?t?s?t. A berendez?s kiviteli v?ltozatain?l a bemenő jelet kisug?rz? elemi sug?rz?k, ?s a hull?mokat vevő elemi sug?rz?k, egy alkalmasan kialak?tott reflektor (1) fel?let belsej?ben, f?zisk?z?ppontjukkal a f?kuszpontokban (F1, F2) vannak elhelyezve, ahol ezeket a dip?lokb?l (2) ?ll?, vagy m?s t?pus? elemi sug?rz?kat, megfelelő f?zissal koaxi?lis, vagy szalag t?pvonalak (3) kapcsolj?k ?ssze ?s vezetik ki, a bemenő ?s kimenő nagyfrekvenci?s jeleknek megfelelően.

but if there is anyone who knows hungarian a post of an accurate translation would be appreciated, automatic translation gave this:

The innovation topic train rigs () possibility work () tame constructional units , two or more egym?shoz anigh placed , elementary radiating emanated electromagnetic curlers radiant ter?ben , those favourable szuperpon?ltat?s?val , the resulting wave for her energy megn?vel?s?t and on this t?bbletenergia through , or other your energy ( for instance. hőenergia ) history ?talak?t?s?val reflex utilizing. THE device export v?ltozatain?l the input signal radiative elementary radiating , and the ripple customer elementary radiating , one opportunely kialak?tott illuminator (1) surface internally f?zisk?z?ppontjukkal the f?kuszpontokban (F1, F2) there are places , where these the dip?lokb?l (2) stand-up , or other type elementary radiating , appropriate phase coaxal , or tape t?pvonalak (3) switch ?ssze and conduce who , the input and outgoing high frequency jeleknek suitably.

 a small diagram of the device is included in the abstract and I have attached it.

I also searched patents in the same class and found another interesting one:

P0001981   Cs?rke Zolt?n    GEARED ECONOMICAL GENERATOR

Image from the abstract also attached.

Hope this helps, I'm no good at the electronics but very interested in what you guys are trying to do, will hunt down anything that you need on the net if I can, just ask.
Title: Re: How the TPU might work (you decide)
Post by: 13thHouR on August 23, 2007, 06:28:04 AM
I have been doing some thinking. First I want to start out with question then I will state my thoughts.

Questions: How many signal sources do we need? Since I guess we are using the TPU as a race track that contains scalar wave would that mean we theoretically need one source? A while back people thought the TPU spun a electromagnet around inside the TPU that would the flux would cut the Earth magnet field to generate power or something like that. Is it now believe that the way we get energy from the TPU is by scalar waves instead of magnetic wave (like the MEG uses)?

I have read 13Hours theories about how we get OU (I thought it was great). I drew some pictures of what I was think happened the tunneling electrons. Radiant energy is electron the are tunneling, right (correct me if I am wrong)? Will thinking about these tunneling electrons and their faster than light speed I figured out how someone could test 13hours theories about their being different scaled zeros and other finite universes. When an electron tunnels it vanishes, right? This is when it is said to go into a lower density universe that has a faster speed of light compared to us. When the electrons oscillate between our universe and the less dense universe it switches speads. Tesla calculated that is was going 1.5 - 1.6 times faster than light. Impossible? Yes in our universe but not in the lesser density universe (its all in the refference as 13hour would say). If the electrons are moving in between our universes like this then if we found out the time that the electrons are in our universe compare to the less dense universe then we could compare that ratio of to the ration of light compared to the scalar wave itself. If it indeed is found out that the is a direct correlation then that is a strong points for 13hour's theory of OU and of his physics in general.

Another thing 13hour pointed out @ http://jlnlabs.imars.com/spgen/index.htm. This sight shows a scalar wave and solitons following it. I'm not sure if anyone has said this but when I look at the picture of a square wave in red and see a (KICKs) scalar wave followed by (SEEDs) solitons it just makes me wonder where is saw those (TPU!). Enough with jokes but does any think the following scalar wave from a control coil pusle might be the kicks and seeds. I can't really recall (being serious) how the kick was effected when it hit those seeds, or another kick? I remember if its Otto (correct me if I'm wrong) that hit seeds with kicks and got a big scare when the machine took off? To me it makes perfect sense (I could be totally wrong) that we see seed emerging right after a pulse. And when people would tune it close to perfect power resonance they would see those seeds grow (I am not sure if went down just like that) when a kick would be combined with them. One last note the TPU (I heard this from a lot of posts) need fast rise and fall times on their pulses for the control coil. Tesla also need fast pulses for his Tesla coil.

In a side relating to scalar waves and resonance has anyone heard of Royal Rife? He was a scientist that created a cure for everything from cancer and aids to the common cold. Since I think we are closer to figuring out how scalar energy resonates do you think it would be possible to cure disease like Rife did. Tesla once stated that his longevity was probably from his exposure to scalar energies

Thats all for now. The pictures I post might be a little light and hard to read. Also I would want to thank 13hour and other that have been working on this TPU project hard. I only connected the dots (somebody was bound to do it).

Stallman

ps. sorry for the bad grammar

Interesting point, about the 4.6Mhz as the usual frequency of harmonics produced by a caduceus coil when a 8Khz square wave pulse is introduced is 4.6Mhz to 5Mhz soliton wave transmission. It is quite an intense signal that can be picked up on a scope probe from up to 30cm away from a coil (that is with a 9.1 Volt 50mA source into a 52 cross over caduceus coil wound around a 1cm wooden dowel '52 cross overs= 26each side)

Used 26 each side to represent the structure of 2 Iron Atoms. the most ideal would be 13 each side.

As I mentioned before 8Khz is a very common frequency on Earth. From plant life to our own brainwaves. An issue which Tesla was very concerned about (As well as it being the frequency of the carrier in our ionosphere)

Getting back to the topic at hand, soliton waves do display interesting properties, they are waves that act as particles, when travelling in a relatively uniform structure. The collision two soliton waves causes they to travel as a wave packet (Quantum Tunnel) for a short distance then they split apart again with no loss of energy.

As I mentioned in my early posts, peeps working on the TPU's should really read up on Prof. Dr. Gunter Nimtz's Quantum Electron Tunnelling experiments.

http://www.ph2.uni-koeln.de/Nimtz/

Nimtz still does not understand density shift representing difference points in space time, the importance of soliton's and how these link with square wave Tesla kicks. So in sense you have one up on him when you read about his work.

You may find something interesting there, how he smoothed quantum wave packets (encoded them) with Mozart 40 and sent it between two locations by non subluminal means (Faster than light) and then decoded the receive signal an played it back.  Although they would not define this as information. As this requires the rewriting of the laws of physics, they did concede that this proves that the so called quantum tunnelling is not random as quantum mechanics suggests.

If it had been random he would have just got white noise out of the other end when decoded.

The reason why I mention this is that when two or more solitons merge, they are in the same wave packet state as the quantum wave packets in Dr Nimtz's experiments. They are no longer at subluminal  velocities on our scale.

So basically an electron makes billions of tiny leaps in space time around the TPU collector, when you introduce other harmonics you increase the density shift (would be like Dr Nimtz using a higher density target) so when these secondary kick waves hit the existing soliton waves at the correct phase of there path, they will merge and the resultant wave packets are considerably higher density, in this case what is returned is an equal opposite displacement of this increase of density, which because this kicks the two soliton waves so hard, it repeats the process again (due to there resultant velocity being more energy than is needed to break relative light velocity again) So a chain reaction of a massive kick them progressively smaller soliton mergers and divisions occurs around the collector

Basically in simpler terms introduction of the second harmonic make the electron quantum leap further around the wire without loss of pushing force. the third and fourth get harder and harder to introduce correctly, when you get to sixth and seventh.

Lets just say your TPU will be a molten blob of metal before that stage. Sixth and 7th Harmonics are more in the range of Nuclear Power Station outputs.

13 Harmonics if enough to control localised space time. (be very careful with this, as it takes considerable amount of energy to get the spin of your atoms phased back into normal space time).

26 Harmonics will be the entire energy of a single finite universe, Thankfully the precision needed for 26 kick harmonics is still beyond that of 21st Century technology.


Our ionosphere does play an important part in this, it is very important that you do not run these test experiments of changing multiple harmonics during electrical storm activity, As the resultant reaction could be catastrophic. We are here to push the boundaries. Not to get killed.






Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: disclosure on August 24, 2007, 01:42:50 PM
Hi guys,

I happened to be on overunity.com and found this thread... My mother tongue is Hungarian and I have some engineering background so I prepared a translation for you in English. I hope it helps:

"The device which forms the basis of this invention enables - with the help of passive structural units -  the followings: Place two or more elementary radiating sources side by side and in this radiation field favourably superposition these fields to increase the energy of the result wave and convert this surplus energy into other energy form(i.e heat) in order to utilize it. By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires. If the elementary radiating sources are of other types they can be connected - with the proper phase alignment- through coaxial or stripe wires(3). These wires(i.e 2,3) connect the elementary radiating sources and provide the output based upon the incoming/outgoing high frequency signals."

A tal?lm?ny t?rgy?t k?pező berendez?s(ek) lehetőv? teszi(k) passz?v szerkezeti elemekkel, k?t vagy t?bb, egym?shoz k?zel elhelyezett, elemi sug?rz?val kisug?rzott elektrom?gneses hull?mok sug?rz?si ter?ben, azok kedvező szuperpon?ltat?s?val, az eredő hull?m energi?j?nak megn?vel?s?t ?s ezen t?bbletenergia k?zvetlen, vagy m?s energi?v? (pl. hőenergia) t?rt?nő ?talak?t?s?val k?zvetett hasznos?t?s?t. A berendez?s kiviteli v?ltozatain?l a bemenő jelet kisug?rz? elemi sug?rz?k, ?s a hull?mokat vevő elemi sug?rz?k, egy alkalmasan kialak?tott reflektor (1) fel?let belsej?ben, f?zisk?z?ppontjukkal a f?kuszpontokban (F1, F2) vannak elhelyezve, ahol ezeket a dip?lokb?l (2) ?ll?, vagy m?s t?pus? elemi sug?rz?kat, megfelelő f?zissal koaxi?lis, vagy szalag t?pvonalak (3) kapcsolj?k ?ssze ?s vezetik ki, a bemenő ?s kimenő nagyfrekvenci?s jeleknek megfelelően.

Cheers,

Greg


Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: AhuraMazda on August 24, 2007, 04:33:43 PM

@13theHour,
Thanks for the link. Following the info, I was led to Background Field Theory. I recommend these to very one:

http://www.backgroundfield.com/index_1.htm
http://www.backgroundfield.de/detected_1.htm
http://www.zero-point-energy.com/efevbf_1.htm

AM
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: tao on August 24, 2007, 09:16:49 PM
Hi guys,

I happened to be on overunity.com and found this thread... My mother tongue is Hungarian and I have some engineering background so I prepared a translation for you in English. I hope it helps:

"The device which forms the basis of this invention enables - with the help of passive structural units -  the followings: Place two or more elementary radiating sources side by side and in this radiation field favourably superposition these fields to increase the energy of the result wave and convert this surplus energy into other energy form(i.e heat) in order to utilize it. By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires. If the elementary radiating sources are of other types they can be connected - with the proper phase alignment- through coaxial or stripe wires(3). These wires(i.e 2,3) connect the elementary radiating sources and provide the output based upon the incoming/outgoing high frequency signals."

A tal?lm?ny t?rgy?t k?pező berendez?s(ek) lehetőv? teszi(k) passz?v szerkezeti elemekkel, k?t vagy t?bb, egym?shoz k?zel elhelyezett, elemi sug?rz?val kisug?rzott elektrom?gneses hull?mok sug?rz?si ter?ben, azok kedvező szuperpon?ltat?s?val, az eredő hull?m energi?j?nak megn?vel?s?t ?s ezen t?bbletenergia k?zvetlen, vagy m?s energi?v? (pl. hőenergia) t?rt?nő ?talak?t?s?val k?zvetett hasznos?t?s?t. A berendez?s kiviteli v?ltozatain?l a bemenő jelet kisug?rz? elemi sug?rz?k, ?s a hull?mokat vevő elemi sug?rz?k, egy alkalmasan kialak?tott reflektor (1) fel?let belsej?ben, f?zisk?z?ppontjukkal a f?kuszpontokban (F1, F2) vannak elhelyezve, ahol ezeket a dip?lokb?l (2) ?ll?, vagy m?s t?pus? elemi sug?rz?kat, megfelelő f?zissal koaxi?lis, vagy szalag t?pvonalak (3) kapcsolj?k ?ssze ?s vezetik ki, a bemenő ?s kimenő nagyfrekvenci?s jeleknek megfelelően.

Cheers,

Greg


Awesome,

This helps a lot, thanks for the translation!
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: acerzw on August 25, 2007, 03:04:59 AM
Hi,
    Since I'm no good at electronics, I have done a bit more research. Don't know if this is useful or not but I have located contact details which I believe might be for the Hungarian inventor, Janos Vajda. He appears to be the Head of Department in the Office for EU Projects and Grants at the University of Debrecen in Hungary.

address: 4032 Debrecen, Egyetem ter 1
contact email: rtd@admin.unideb.hu

and the website for them:

http:/wwwold.unideb.hu/rtd/

The source document for his contact details can be found at:

http://docs.tetalap.hu/hufp6/fp6contact.pdf

and contains telephone and fax numbers in addition.

One of the group may wish to initiate contact though if this is him I understand from the Hungarian site that he had a lot invested in this so unsure how he would take an approach re his invention.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: 13thHouR on August 25, 2007, 03:12:50 AM

@13theHour,
Thanks for the link. Following the info, I was led to Background Field Theory. I recommend these to very one:

http://www.backgroundfield.com/index_1.htm
http://www.backgroundfield.de/detected_1.htm
http://www.zero-point-energy.com/efevbf_1.htm

AM

Yep I know of Carlos's work, I wonder where he got the ideas from  ;) I am not blowing my own trumpet but I have indirectly had lot of influence over the years on various publications

Background Field Theory is a good representation of the finite, but stops short of truly pushing the boundaries and explaining with a reversible process, what occurs beyond an event horizon and how this affects our finite space time.

It's always promising though to see people thinking outside of the box, I just wish that when they decide to push the boundaries that they define usable values to work with.

Then theory or conjecture becomes a practical tool rather than just a construct of informed thought.


Background Field Theory is a good stepping stone in thinking alternatively
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: giantkiller on September 02, 2007, 09:52:48 AM

"The device which forms the basis of this invention enables - with the help of passive structural units -  the followings: Place two or more elementary radiating sources side by side and in this radiation field favourably superposition these fields to increase the energy of the result wave and convert this surplus energy into other energy form(i.e heat) in order to utilize it. By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires. If the elementary radiating sources are of other types they can be connected - with the proper phase alignment- through coaxial or stripe wires(3). These wires(i.e 2,3) connect the elementary radiating sources and provide the output based upon the incoming/outgoing high frequency signals."


The description of the 2 intersecting frequencies with a 3rd thrown in is the same field configuration as Hutchison. He uses 2 Tesla coils and a transducer.

--giantkiller. If I fell off the train here let me know.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Doug1 on February 23, 2008, 01:24:35 PM
                             
Quote
                           Practical considerations

 

"Finally let?s see how can this principle be utilized for the generation of free energy in practice.

To create the initial conditions of the process, we need an energy source to feed two or more radiation sources. The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization. "

    I toke this to mean there is one source split into two or more radiators which superimpose to a 1 to 4 gain in the end at the collector. Send back one unit or the equal amount of energy used to start the process to repeat the process and syphon off 3 units for use or 2 if you have to use one unit to cover losses. The split has to be oriented in the same polarization N/S. because waves can pass right by each other going in opposite directions but will only combine when going the same way resulting in a gain only in the same direction and only if the two or more are exactly identical and happening together at the same time. Yes no? if so then waves do not calculate the same way as solids or liquids 1+1 is not 2 in wave propagation or wave addition.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Bruce_TPU on February 23, 2008, 05:16:38 PM
                             
Quote
                           Practical considerations

 

"Finally let?s see how can this principle be utilized for the generation of free energy in practice.

To create the initial conditions of the process, we need an energy source to feed two or more radiation sources. The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization. "

    I toke this to mean there is one source split into two or more radiators which superimpose to a 1 to 4 gain in the end at the collector. Send back one unit or the equal amount of energy used to start the process to repeat the process and syphon off 3 units for use or 2 if you have to use one unit to cover losses. The split has to be oriented in the same polarization N/S. because waves can pass right by each other going in opposite directions but will only combine when going the same way resulting in a gain only in the same direction

The boldfaced, underlined statement is not true, if the sources are different!  Ref. JDO300 experiments and cOmsters experiment.

and only if the two or more are exactly identical and happening together at the same time. Yes no? if so then waves do not calculate the same way as solids or liquids 1+1 is not 2 in wave propagation or wave addition.

Identical signals, sent in opposition to one another, do indeed double in amplitude, if each has it's own source. (Separate power supply)


Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: BEP on February 23, 2008, 07:34:41 PM
Doug1 is correct but only when speaking of transverse EM waves, especially if the wave leading and trailing edges are gradual.

When folks start to believe that a TEM wave is only the result of an LEM wave -and- vice versa and one cannot exist without the other then possibilities will grow.

Like Jason's experiment - you can see some results if the sources of energy are not separated but they will be minor.

If I have the choice of staring-down a Tsunami or standing between two at the meeting point, guess which one I'll pick.

Until these 'Laws' are no longer applied in a blanket fashion we are stuck. Why is it the EE clan can't understand how to make a short piece of wire resonate at a subharmonic when the RE's (I like that acronym  :) or radio engineers have been doing it for decades?

If you can do it in a water filled wave tank you can do it in a waveguide. Ten's of thousands died a while ago and just recently we started to check for longitudinal wave movement?

Those who do figure these things out are practically beaten with sticks. The ones who have the power to bring new ideas to light won't do it because they'll loose their retirement.

I have only a little hope at this point.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Doug1 on February 24, 2008, 12:43:50 PM
BruceT
   I was stating what I found interesting in the quote of the paper presented. With out trying it out for myself physically I can only comment on the presented information. Waves passing by each other is something I have seen first hand. Which at times appear to be wave reflection but could just as easily be waves passing each other. The magnitude of two two waves colliding does not yield enough gain to account for double the wave energy. it is not even as much as would be expected if one wave was completely riding over the other. This being observed in nature physically by eye.
    Much of my wire has been lost to trying to make things work using excepted methods perhaps it is time to change tact and stop expecting some type of results to be different while applying methods which have not so far had as high a gain as one might hope for.
   
    One thing I have tried and used is to run two circuits off a single ground wire which use two different voltages that are not even running in the same direction using different power supplies. There was no interference of the two as they crossed paths for short distance. Perhaps there is some consideration to the rest of the physical lay out of what you have stated to be a gain in placing two circuits against each other using two power supplies. Personally I dont see how using two power supplies applies to the statement I quoted from unless you take into account the physical design of what the test results were derived from.
   As wave theory goes I also do not believe using a water tank reveals all that is happening with in the medium. It only shows the effects of the wave in the horizonal plane not the vertical where the two pass by each other or collide with reference to the complete vertical collision. So it may not be conclusive regarding two waves passing each other with or without imparting energy to each other in the sense of gain. Different mediums react to external changes and influences in accordance to their own density. I really do not believe a couple of metal cars or water waves are going to behave like a magnetic field which is more elastic then a Honda Civic.
   Even water will most likely act more like a solid then a magnetic field.

   back to the topic at hand
 One of tesla's motor patents which i can not recall the reference # off the top of my head has a number of bi wound coils actually i believe every second coil is tri with the alternate coils being biwound  in the same manor as Bedinni uses his bi-wound and looks a lot like a number of other designs which pop up regularly. perhaps there is some sort of hidden reference to the energy recaptured and it's direction of travel that could help with the tpu.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Doug1 on February 24, 2008, 01:07:44 PM
If no one objects too strongly we could pick apart what Marks says in section three word for word then work it backwards logically starting with the desired output.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: RobotHead on March 06, 2008, 09:04:31 AM
Look at the attending Hungarian speaker at this energy conference. 

http://www.cei2008.org/registrated.php

Vajda janos gimnazium to talk on "Why don't we try a different way"

Is this the same Mr. Vajda?  Sure seems like it.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: RobotHead on March 06, 2008, 09:21:37 AM
Image from the abstract also attached.

Hope this helps, I'm no good at the electronics but very interested in what you guys are trying to do, will hunt down anything that you need on the net if I can, just ask.
Acerzw, that first diagram is obviously a collector cavity shaped as an ellipse, where the waves are emitted from one foci of the ellipse and collected at the other foci.  An ellipse has the special property where it takes the same length to go from one foci to the other regardless of direction it leaves the emitter foci.  As explained earlier "If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization." 

Or from the provided translation, "By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires."

This is what this thing does.  It collects the waves so they are perfectly in phase.  Ingeniously simple.

The second diagram looks to be a microwave generator or maybe a collector or both?  Makes sense since he said he did this with microwaves.

There is enough information here for anyone with good knowledge of microwaves to reproduce his device.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: RobotHead on March 06, 2008, 12:12:17 PM
tao, do you have the section "Confirmed by Scientific Analysis &  Measurements" for this wave field study? 
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 24, 2016, 05:22:08 PM
Apparently this thread is dead by now, but just in case somebody is still interested, I will post the link to a new website which will resurrect some of the most important subjects and articles of my old FE website, and expand on it.

Thanks to Tao and all those who contributed for backing up my old site and keeping the subject alive.

The new site contains two salvaged articles at the moment at:

feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields
feprinciples.wordpress.com/how-to-gain-free-energy-from-wave-fields-simplified-explanation

More to be added later.

Regards,
Zoltan Losonc
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 26, 2016, 03:40:25 PM
The intended links in my last post did not turn into clickable links, so let me re-post them this time in a different format:

https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields
https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/how-to-gain-free-energy-from-wave-fields-simplified-explanation
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Kator01 on February 26, 2016, 04:54:09 PM
Hello,

The Antenna Pradoxon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4guW5NFs8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4guW5NFs8)

and this here about Dr. Raymond Phillips, scroll forward to page 5,6 :

https://issuu.com/tillit/docs/tillitnr12 (https://issuu.com/tillit/docs/tillitnr12)

go to slide 52 and onward to the end here:
http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/whiteOPS-1625713-energie-empfaenger-gedanken/ (http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/whiteOPS-1625713-energie-empfaenger-gedanken/)

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=EP&NR=0321466A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19890628&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=EP&NR=0321466A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19890628&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP)


Regards

Kator01



Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 26, 2016, 06:50:07 PM
Kator01,

Thanks for your input.
I hope though, that the www.Distinti.com and the video you linked are not yours  ;)

In the comment section of the video www.Distinti.com makes the following false statement:

Quote
"In the case of two dipoles, using proper techniques, at any given radius there will be points where the power is 2 times the power of the isotropic (of the pair).  And because other points have less; the total integrated power will come out properly to be that of two antennas. "

This has been discussed on pages 5 and 6 of the latest version 1.2 of Janos Vajda's paper. You can download it from my website linked in my last post. On page 40 you will find the COP results of two Hertz dipoles radiating identical frequencies. This formula is the result of an integration performed over a closed surface around the antennas in far field. From the diagram you can see that the power is conserved (Ps/Pin=1) only in special cases. But in general, the total input power is not identical with the output power in far field. It can be greater or smaller than the resultant output power, depending on phase relationship, and on the distance between the antennas.

Further nonsensical statements of www.Distinti.com in comments section of the video:

Quote
"The ultimate point of this video is to show that there is no electric field in a radio wave (there is actually another Antenna Paradox video coming soon which delves further into this point)...

"power does not add linearly; however, we cant add voltages in parallel because voltages in parallel do not add; thus the "so called" E-Field of an electromagnetic wave is incorrect, electromagnetic energy is a kinetic transmission of energy which is more akin to current.......

"I am merely using it to explain that the parallel incident waves can not be have electric fields. "

I hope there is no need to press the issue, that the electromagnetic wave has got an electric field component... ;D
---

I have taken a quick look at Raymond Phillips' patent US4685047, but did not read it to the end yet. Based on the excerpt and the schematic diagram I don't see anything revolutionary in it at all, in fact I can hardly imagine any use for this thing. The power you could get this way is minuscule, except perhaps near very powerful radio or TV stations, which is basically useless to humanity at large.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 26, 2016, 07:04:29 PM
Forgot to mention that on my new website there is an improved English translation of Janos Vajda's paper, it is version 1.2 published on 14. 02. 2016. Therefore, even if you readers have got the older version in your archives, it is worth downloading the latest version as well (before it disappears  ;) ). It can be downloaded from:

https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields/

Since the paper is a free document and it generates no income, I could not hire a professional editor to proofread it. If there is a volunteer who's mother tongue is English, and is able to find out the proper technical terms used in microwave technology and mathematics, who is willing to read the text, find grammatical or linguistic errors and suggest corrections, that would be great. Only the English text needs to be verified, the formulas have been checked by Janos.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Kator01 on February 27, 2016, 07:43:49 PM
Hello ZL,

thank you for your comments. No, destinti is not my channel. Actually I did not read his comments so I missed these wrong statements. Also I missed the distinction between near- and far-field which would make this statement about the "non existence of electric field component " obsolete.

When I learned of your webssite I remembered that I read about Vajdas long time ago. Meanwhile I had bought a new computer more that 8 years ago and lost a lot of archived data as I usually archive extraordinalry things before they vanish.

So here it is again thanks to your effort and I will send this to a few friends of mine who are electronic professionals both of which are ham-radio professional, as I have no means at this time to experiment in this field.

Thank you for all of your effort. This time I will create a double-archive

Quote
hope there is no need to press the issue, that the electromagnetic wave has got an electric field component... (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
---

definitely not !

Regards

Kator01



Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 28, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Kator01,

You're welcome.

I am aware of the fact that the full understanding of Janos' paper is very demanding, and there are very few people even among FE researchers who are up to the task. This was the reason for writing a simplified explanation of the principle, which on the other hand supposed to be simple enough for all technically oriented people to understand. If it is still too complicated, then let me know, because then I (or someone else) have to write an even more simplified presentation. The basic principle is trivially simple, it should be taught in all high schools and above.

The real reason why people can not buy their own free energy generators today is not the lack of intelligence, or knowledge, or technology. The reason is the presence of an oppressive (often not very) hidden power that keeps humanity in virtual slavery. If all the people would have their own free energy source, then they would gain independence and freedom, and the Cabal would lose their power and control over the population. You may understand that as long as they are in power, they will not allow this to happen.

They may allow a few people, or few groups of people to make and use their own FE generators for their own benefit, as long as it is not spreading to the general population. The Cabal is thinking in statistics when the control of the population is concerned. This is the tiny open niche that serious FE researchers who have the means to put knowledge into practice may exploit for their own benefit.

For the rest of the FE researchers remains a very important and noble task to fulfill, which is to find the golden needle of real and true FE principles in the haystack of hoaxes and deception created by the disinfo agents of the elite, and preserve it for the next generations. Another task is to spread the knowledge right now. The more people know about it, the more chance there is for its ultimate success. There is a good chance that FE generators will not be sold to the public in my lifetime, or perhaps not even during the next 100 years. But a time may come when the oppression weakens enough to allow the development and open usage of FE generators. When that time comes, then even one single preserved copy of Vajda's paper can open a new era for humanity by granting them real freedom and prosperity. Do you readers want to be one link in the chain that makes this possible?

So how can a FE researcher differentiate between hoaxes and real FE generators or principles? There are two ways.
1. One is using knowledge, intelligence, and diligence to find FE discoveries, inventions that can be theoretically validated and proved, because their principles are based on already known and tested laws of nature. There are very few FE principles that allow this path. One of them is the principle of wave interference that we have discussed. Naturally if you have the expertise and/or enough money, you can also test and build such devices and use them in practice right now. But you can differentiate it from the hoaxes and recognize its great value even if you have no money to test it in practice, just by pure logic and knowledge.

2. The other way of separating the golden needle for the haystack is to use intuition, money, and elbow grease, build the proposed device and see if it really produces excess energy or not. The less knowledge, and intelligence one has, the more money and work he will have to invest (and lose). The great majority of online FE research is confined to this category, which is the exact reason why the Cabal disinfo agents are creating and maintaining such an avalanche of fake FE inventions. If you would want to test them all, you could spend millions of dollars and your whole lifetime would not be enough. At the end you could become an expert hoax buster, but you would still not find the real gem, because those are not popular, the real gems are suppressed, hidden, falsified and corrupted. People are attracted by the popular FE fads, by the great buzz of chatting about it, hoping, and that is the glue on the fly paper.

If you want to preserve this true gem that can grant real freedom and prosperity to your grandchildren or later generations, I suggest you to print it on paper with ink that can withstand the rigors of time (ex. laser print), because there is no guarantee that any digital format in use today will be readable a century later. This noble act does not mean that you can do nothing else in the present to help the cause. Spreading the truth and developing devices based on the principle are the present noble tasks.


Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: forest on February 28, 2016, 10:20:14 AM
Induction, resonance , I barely see third option. Wave interference seems to be part of resonance game.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 28, 2016, 03:18:49 PM
Forest,

Quote
Induction, resonance , I barely see third option. Wave interference seems to be part of resonance game.

Is this the announcement of great wisdom that bears no critique, or do you want to read the opinion of others (and myself) about this claim?
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: forest on February 28, 2016, 03:47:04 PM
Opinions please. ::) 
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: forest on February 28, 2016, 04:04:18 PM
You probably know perfectly that in the antenna of resonant circuit there are stationary waves and power multiplication of many many times. The only problem is to tap this energy.
The same could be reached using induction with proper ampere-turns, the same problems. While those probles seems unsuperable it is only a technical problem, many solutions were found and patented in the past.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ramset on February 28, 2016, 05:17:14 PM
ZL
a more interesting topic would be hard to imagine ? [seeing as how we are here and this is what we like to do here ]

how to touch the antenna array and not stifle the effect ?..perhaps the ground will help under proper conditions ?
or just a well engineered system ?

Have you any simple experiments ?

thanks for the reboot on this topic !!

I did spread it around a bit
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20410-reboot-free-energy-wave-fields-working-principal.html

Chet K

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 28, 2016, 05:47:57 PM
Forest,

If you write a comment in telegram style, then you deserve a response in kind.   ::)
Anyway, here is my opinion:

The paper of Janos has proved that it is possible to generate free energy in wave fields where the excess energy comes from wave interference in free space and not from induction. If you have read his paper (or my simplified explanation), then I don't understand why do you ignore this fact, and say that you barely see any other option for generating free energy, than via induction and resonance. Remember that even though the reception of EM waves in antennas involves the principle of induction, it is only a secondary phenomena. The excess energy is not generated by induction, but by wave superposition in free space.

You also imply that resonance is the ultimate key phenomena that generates free energy, and interference is only of secondary importance that automatically must be part of all resonant systems. This is an inappropriate oversimplification.

If the source of excess energy in a resonant system is wave interference, then the resonance is of secondary importance, it serves only to make the interference possible. But resonance in itself generates no excess energy if the amplification of power in the process of interference is not present, and certain obstacles are not eliminated.

If on the other hand by "induction" you refer to ferromagnetic devices where the FE principle is not based on wave superposition but rather on nonlinear effects, then of course wave interference is not even part of the resonance game you refer to.

If by "induction" you refer to simple magnetic induction without the presence of magnetic materials, then you will surely not get any free energy, because that is a linear reciprocal process which by definition prevents FE generation.

You see, a one line generalization leads to confusion, because your audience has to guess exactly what are you trying to claim.
---

OK I have just read your second post, so here is some more input about the subject of resonance in FE subjects. Resonance is an over-hyped slogan among FE researchers, when they imply that the phenomena of resonance itself generates excess energy. This is far from the truth. If it would be true, then all resonant systems would produce excess energy, and there would be no need for any research, expertise, or inventive talent. You could just build a resonant cavity, feed it with resonant frequencies, and there you go, you could extract as much free energy as you want. The fact that this is not so supposed to reveal, that the key principle that multiplies the energy is not a simple resonance in itself, but something else.

There is one exception to this insight and that is when the FE principle is based on the destruction of substances into their components. What does a simple resonant system do? It accumulates energy in oscillations. This does not mean that it creates excess energy in that process, because you will have to input the same amount of energy that it contains. However, if you increase the amplitude of the oscillations of the molecules of a substance like water, it may be possible to break it up into its components with less energy than it would produce when recombined. So resonant systems in their simple forms are only energy accumulators which are great at breaking things up, and destroying material, but they are not FE generators in themselves. If you gain more heat energy by burning H2 and O that you produced by breaking up water in resonant cavities, then the FE principle of the device is the artificial breaking of reciprocal action-reaction process, where molecular processes are involved.

A standing wave in a simple resonator will not generate excess energy as long as the reciprocal action-reaction interaction is not broken in some cleaver way. This is so, because as the amplitude within the resonator increases, the amplitude of the input signal will also have to increase in order to be able to feed more energy into it. Therefore the input power will also have to increase in such a way, that there is no net energy gain.

Please note, that above I refereed to simple resonators or resonant systems that are used in everyday practice (they produce no excess energy). But this does not mean, that it is not possible to make special resonators that break reciprocal interaction between the input and the energy within the system (and/or output), which could enable the principle of wave interference to produce excess energy. But again, even in these special resonators, the free energy generating principle is not the resonance itself, but the wave interference combined with the trick that breaks the symmetry.

Quote
The same could be reached using induction with proper ampere-turns, the same problems. While those probles seems unsuperable it is only a technical problem, many solutions were found and patented in the past.

Well, this again sounds as if you would have already tested this and found to be true.  Meaning, you already have built your own FE generator because you have solved this minor "technical problem" either on your own, or taken from one of your mentioned patents. If this is indeed true, then I am all ears and eyes to see your FE principle either proven mathematically, or working in practice.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 28, 2016, 06:27:00 PM
ramset,

Thanks for spreading the word. Actually by doing this you do a much greater favor to the people, than to me or Janos.

Quote
how to touch the antenna array and not stifle the effect ?..perhaps the ground will help under proper conditions ?
or just a well engineered system ?

This was the first thing I have suggested to Janos when he started to explain his discovery, namely "why don't we just create standing waves in a wave guide, let the amplitude increase, and extract the excess energy". Then he had a big smile and explained that we can not extract excess energy from standing waves in such a simple device. It is much more tricky than one could imagine at first sight. This is the reason why his invention was not based on tapping standing waves in simple wave guides (or resonators), but rather on the radiation and collection of propagating waves into/from free space using two (or more) antennas.

I do have a measurement plan designed by Janos. If you are interested I can upload it to my new website.

Quote
thanks for the reboot on this topic !!

you're welcome.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: forest on February 28, 2016, 08:17:25 PM
ramset,

Thanks for spreading the word. Actually by doing this you do a much greater favor to the people, than to me or Janos.

This was the first thing I have suggested to Janos when he started to explain his discovery, namely "why don't we just create standing waves in a wave guide, let the amplitude increase, and extract the excess energy". Then he had a big smile and explained that we can not extract excess energy from standing waves in such a simple device. It is much more tricky than one could imagine at first sight. This is the reason why his invention was not based on tapping standing waves in simple wave guides (or resonators), but rather on the radiation and collection of propagating waves into/from free space using two (or more) antennas.

I do have a measurement plan designed by Janos. If you are interested I can upload it to my new website.

you're welcome.


I don't understand your opposition to my statement about resonance. It's prefectly clear that Janos used the resonance with antenna proper construction exactly as I said. The excess of energy is never the interference of fields, it's the excess of magnetic field generated by whatever reason which by induction is converted to electric power - is the source. The only problem is the re-action of this field - so called Lenz law. But if you make a field outside of the generator so it cannot change the parameters of generating part then you have a source of free energy...The same did Tesla with his magnifying transmitter and receivers....
You can have that in space or you can have that in properly constructed apparatus...
I have no experience to build it, that would require a lot of genious without costly tools, especially in higher frequencies.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: centraflow on February 28, 2016, 08:19:51 PM
ZL


I found your post 36 most refreshing unlike most posts in these forums.


What you put into that post I agree nearly 100%.


I don't post much here, but this topic is of interest for me and of my past. I agree that the term resonance has been used totally out of context, here I have posted a spectrum of a circuit which I still play with from time to time. This is the result of two frequencies ( not frequency mixing ), like you have said, you can take two frequencies in free space and they will react totally different to a frequency "mixer".


Many years ago I used two frequencies injected into water mist to break the bonds in water, that got me into a lot of trouble and guess what, I found it out by accident. Yes I know what you mean by resonance is not the road to FE.


Now look at the SA picture, look at the amplitude and the result of two frequencies hitting one another. The input was only one frequency, this was then used to create a second frequency, which was then put head on with the original, it is nearly all passive and can be all passive components, this one was all passive.


Won't be posting here again, just thought that your post was most refreshing.


Regards


Mike 8)
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ramset on February 29, 2016, 02:51:50 AM
ZL
Quote
I do have a measurement plan designed by Janos. If you are interested I can upload it to my new website.

------------------------------

That would be  nice to see

Thx
Chet
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 29, 2016, 06:13:39 PM

Centraflow,

Thanks for chiming in and for your support.
I know what you meant about the quality of many posts on public forums.
It was not my intention either to start regular posting here, or on any other popular public forum. Just wanted to update the link to my new site to make it easier for people to find it, without digging at archives.com. But now that I have signed up why not to respond to some select posts, as long as it does not take too much time and effort?

Good luck with you circuit and research.

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on February 29, 2016, 06:25:48 PM
Ramset,

Your requested measurement plan has been updated and uploaded to my website. It can be found at:

Measurements for determining the radiant power balance of dipole radiators in reflection free environment
https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/measurement-of-energy-conservation/

A pdf version is also available there. If you (or someone you know) perform the measurement, please let me know your results.

For this favor now you owe me to proofread the text and let me know the linguistic errors, so that I can clean it up and make it more readable.  8)

Just joking, you do not owe me anything, but it would be helpful if you (or anyone else who's mother tongue is English) could accept the task.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ramset on February 29, 2016, 11:49:07 PM
ZL
Thank you for the posting ,it would seem that there should be a path towards further investigation ?
When I get back from this road trip ,i will reach out for you again and perhaps we can discuss a solution for
Advancing this and making the inventor happy ?

Respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 01, 2016, 01:40:32 PM
Ramset,

We have published more than enough information for you (or for anyone) to make an accurate independent verification very easy. I don't see why you are using such uncertain and wage expressions. If you have got the equipment and expertise, or money to hire them, then it is only question of time and effort to obtain guaranteed results.

To significantly "advance" the subject you will need a bit more than that.

Making the inventor happy? Why, have you got few million dollars that you don't need? Can you get a CPT patent approved for his invention? I doubt it.

So it is better to just take humble steps and don't rise unrealistic hopes. But as I have already mentioned, you could surely help the cause right now by simply proofreading important translations. Why didn't you offer this kind of realistic help?  ???

Have a nice trip. :)
Title: Anyone here from Budapest?
Post by: ZL on March 01, 2016, 01:42:41 PM
Is there anyone here from Budapest?
If yes, then please contact me via PM.

Thanks,
Zoltan
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ramset on March 01, 2016, 10:54:15 PM
ZL
I have asked for a bit of help with the proof read ,since we don't want to end up with a recipe for something completely different


Yes I do understand that a general proof read of the doc was your request and not so much for content accuracy.
However we do have a friend here who gives very selflessly of his time towards helping others understand these
topics ..here and elsewhere. and he is very well versed in this particular topic .

His proofread  will be a much better result ..which will hopefully benefit all.

regarding my comments and using the word "your inventor " ? this was not meant to slight the relationship you have
nor intimate any type of relationship ,just a reference ...no disrespect meant or implied .

when I said we don't do business [in my email]
I meant just that "literally"  , Business is the death Nell for these types of technologies.. a trap of sorts [patents and such]
It is My opinion and others whom I associate with ..that such technologies have big issues
when attempts are made to monetize them ...and this has been the downfall of their advancement into main stream.

also, to be blunt ..some here are fervently open source and feel the world could put such technologies to Good uses also [not just bad].

I will respond to the rest of your Email tonight .

but mostly I will say ..doing the right thing is truly the goal , for the planet and hopefully the inventor too.

respectfully

Chet K



 

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Dog-One on March 01, 2016, 11:01:09 PM
However we do have a friend here who gives very selflessly of his time towards helping others understand these
topics ..here and elsewhere. and he is very well versed in this particular topic .

His proofread  will be a much better result ..which will hopefully benefit all.


Would that be Smudge?

I'm sure he could do it justice.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: poynt99 on March 02, 2016, 03:29:56 AM
ZL,

I understand the principle of how this in theory works, but I am not convinced the theory will prove out in practice. I take it that neither yourself nor the inventor have actually performed the proposed test? I also take it that neither has a demonstration device exhibiting COP>1?
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: poynt99 on March 02, 2016, 04:03:48 AM
In two way radio communications, some of you may be aware of a transmission setup called "simulcast". This entails the use of several precisely-tuned transmitters to widen a coverage area. The trick though is all the transmitters need to have the exact same frequency and be timed (i.e. phased) properly. Any overlap of the transmitted signals results in a stronger signal at the receivers. The received signal strength is not some multiple of all the transmitted signals however, it is more of a sum.

Surely the radio engineers and technicians developing, installing and testing such systems would have recognized any exponential increased in received signal strength by now if they in fact did occur in a simulcast system?
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Dog-One on March 02, 2016, 04:14:35 AM
Surely the radio engineers and technicians developing, installing and testing such systems would have recognized any exponential increased in received signal strength by now if they in fact did occur in a simulcast system?

I was thinking exactly the same thing.  There are enough military applications of phase-array radar systems out there, surely an anomaly of this magnitude would have been noted in the literature someplace.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: pix on March 02, 2016, 07:14:51 PM

A standing wave in a simple resonator will not generate excess energy as long as the reciprocal action-reaction interaction is not broken in some cleaver way. This is so, because as the amplitude within the resonator increases, the amplitude of the input signal will also have to increase in order to be able to feed more energy into it. Therefore the input power will also have to increase in such a way, that there is no net energy gain.


Then what is the principle of Tesla Magnifying transmitter?
You don't need amplitude of the input signal increase together with standing wave amplitude increasing. I don't see such a thing in Tesla setup.
He even made a small mechanical oscillator that he used on the steel bridge, and put that bridge in resonance, he had to stop that experiment because vibrations of that bridge became too dangerous.
Tesla secondary and "extra" coil are in resonance with primary input. This is A MUST for efficient energy transfer.By his own words: "we need a constant small "push" at the peak of the wave".
Then, a lose coupling between primary and secondary, to allow secondary for natural oscillation ( resonance).
Then, secondary and "extra coil" are just slow wave helical resonators, a physical object that accumulates energy to levels of electric breakdown from the top of such 1/4 wave helical resonator.
Tesla himself namet this phenomena "resonant rise".


In real life we need a real physical objects to play with- transmission line, helical or waveguide And resonance plays an important role for EFFICIENT energy transfer.
I don't negate waves interference in free space. It is obvious. It also lies behind a ball lightning. James Corum, a notable Tesla researcher made such experiment with two tesla coils tuned for a different frequencies.
It is logical, that when you interfere waves in some medium, amplitudes add and increase, or cancels and decrease- depending what waves do you interfere. This you will hear in the high school physics lesson.
Only when you do this mixing with EXACT waves, you may obtain a magnification. Those waves has to be harmonics.
Interference can be "destructive" or " additive"
That is why resonance ( harmony) plays important role, if you want to get magnification result.
If you mix random waves, you will get nothing spectacular.
Watch this animation, what you can get when interfering harmonic modes of base wave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXlzCX5gio


Cheers,
Pix
Title: Janos Vajda who discovered how to gain FE from wave fileds passed away
Post by: ZL on March 03, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
Dear Forum Members,

It was with great sadness that I learned about the death of Janos Vajda today. He passed away in 2009.

He was a great scientist and inventor, who has revealed the correct understanding of the energy balance in wave fields.
His name and discovery will be taught in the schools and universities of future generations along with Newton and Tesla.

Last time we had a telephone conversation it was around 2008. After that my FE research activity was neglected for a while, this is why I have not know about this so far. I will get a copy of his document he left behind, and study them carefully.

Zoltan Losonc

 
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 04, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
Ramset,

“I have asked for a bit of help with the proof read, since we don't want to end up with a recipe for something completely different”

You don’t need to worry about ending up with something completely different than the original. My English is good enough to understand if the meaning is different. I will not implement all suggestions for changes blindly, but only those that I consider to be reasonable and significant improvement, while still preserving the original meaning and also the original style of the text.

For example if someone is pointing out grammatical errors in Mr. Vajda’s paper, then besides making sure the suggested modifications don’t alter the original meaning, I will have to make sure that the original style of writing is also preserved. The original style of the paper is scientific, accurate, elegant, and concise. There are some very long sentences attempting to squeeze as much relevant content into a single sentence as possible, which is not an easy reading even in the original Hungarian text. If I would have to explain the same ideas, I would use several shorter sentences to make it easier to read, but by doing so I would falsify the original style of the book. The content accuracy is my responsibility. What I was requesting is very simple, just read it and if something does not sound correct in English due to grammatical or other linguistic errors, then let me know what that is, and I will check it out how we can fix that.

By the way, every time I re-read the documents, I find some linguistic errors which were not recognized last time. Today I have updated the pages again and fixed some grammatical errors.

The "your inventor" and the “we don't do business” expressions were discussed in private email between you and me. The readers of this forum don’t even know the context, then why are you responding to them here on the forum and not in private email? Based on decent etiquette a private communication in a letter or email supposed to be answered in private communication, and not on public forums. Its not that the mentioned two subjects are some kind of secret, but still it is simply weird why you are doing this. If you were in desert, would you pour your drinking water into a sieve that leaks…? Why would I?

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ramset on March 04, 2016, 04:19:04 PM
 ZL
I suppose I misunderstood your mention of millions in post 44 ,I honestly don't understand how else to take that
Public comment (not private Email ).
Sans my public business comment !,

Apologies for the language barrier misunderstanding ,and exactly the reason I like to speak with a person
Whenever possible ,yes it can be hard to have good boundaries when crossing language barriers ,we don't
Always understand the intent ?

I suppose I did cross wires with the other comment ,although as you point out it was semantics and not
Relevant .

It is not my intention to complicate this anymore or distract from your purpose here .

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Chet

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 04, 2016, 05:41:42 PM
poynt99 & Dog-One

Quote
”I understand the principle of how this in theory works, but I am not convinced the theory will prove out in practice. I take it that neither yourself nor the inventor have actually performed the proposed test? I also take it that neither has a demonstration device exhibiting COP>1?”

If you would really have understood the mathematical proof that Mr. Vajda has presented, you would not doubt that those equations model reality very accurately, and consequently that the mathematical modelling precisely predicts the behavior of the waves in practice. You would also not doubt, that the total power radiated through a closed surface in far field surrounding the antennas would be accurately predicted by the formulas and diagrams presented in his book. Naturally you have the right to doubt, and believe in whatever religious and irrational dogma of the establishment you want, it’s not my problem.

I personally did not perform this measurement for several reasons. The primary reason is that I understand the mathematical proof in the paper of Janos, just like I do understand that the volume of a cube can be accurately predicted by the formula V=L^3 where L is the length of one side. Now if I would end up in jungle, among a not very developed tribe, where people believe that by doubling the length of the sides of a cube, it can take max. twice the water than before; would I have to carve myself a huge cube into a huge log at great expense to prove myself that my formula “will prove out in practice”? Certainly not, I know my formula is correct, because I know geometry and know that mathematics also accurately models reality. I would just tell them that by doubling the length of the cube’s sides, it’s volume would increase 8-fold (and not only 2-fold).

There would be certainly uproar, debunking, ridicule, and protests, but none of their attacks and discrediting efforts would change the truth and reality a tiny bit. I could explain them a way to perform measurements to prove the validity of my formula for themselves, but they would have to do the carving themselves, not me.

The second reason is that for accurately performing this measurement special microwave instrumentation and a well prepared deaf room is needed. The microwave instruments are not as affordable as a 100MHz oscilloscope or a digital multimeter, and building a decent deaf room is also expensive. I don’t have such equipment. Even the renting of a well equipped lab for this purpose would be expensive and not for my pocket, (certainly not for this type of measurement which I consider “not too exciting”). However, if I would be skeptical and very eager to prove myself, I would certainly save up for the renting of a lab-room.

Third, microwave technology is not my specialty. I did study electrotechnics at a university, so I do have the necessary basis to understand the math of Janos, and the laws of EM waves which he uses. However, microwave technology is a quite specialized area of electrotechniques, just like eye surgery in medicine. A GM practitioner would understand how to operate an eye, but he would still not venture on operating his patients at his home just for this reason, and without sufficient preparatory training. When I decide to set my mind on measurements and development in microwave technology, then I will first spend few months on upgrading my existing knowledge in the field of microwave tech.

Forth, originally I stumbled into the idea of gaining FE from acoustic interference on my own and was trying to find a way to overcome the low power density of acoustic waves. Then by some kind of synchronicity I have found the book of Mr. Vajda in a bookstore hidden behind thick volumes, so that people should not find it without luck, or by specifically searching for it. That is when I have visited Janos, and we begun to work together on the translation of his book. He came out with the concept first, so I fully agree that the credit for discovering and publishing the proof belongs to Mr. Vajda. My personal contribution to this subject of FE from wave fields (besides translating, writing articles, and running my website) so far is the explanation where the excess energy comes from, which I will explain in more detail in a separate paper later. But the basics are already given in my simplified explanation. Janos did not explain this question beyond the comments, or rather questions he made in his book, because he was a practical man, and did not care too much about why it works. He rather cared about how to make it practically useful as an FE generator, and he did that perfectly.

So far I have left the area of microwaves to Janos, because this was his field, and he knew this better than me. But now that he is gone, this might have to change. In mean time I was working on the principle in my chosen field of acoustics. This is the reason I have added an update to my webpage saying that even though in 2003 I thought acoustics has no potential for significant power density to make it practically useful, this has changed since then. I have found a way to bypass this obstacle, and if I live long enough and get sufficient financial support, then an acoustic equivalent of Janos’ invention will be the result.

Janos has performed many measurements, which unambiguously proved the violation of the law of energy conservation. If you read carefully the documents on my site (which you apparently did not do)  then you will see that I have already explained it in detail. First were the measurements of proof, only later as a matter of curiosity did he develop the mathematical proof as a by product. There is no dilemma here “which was first, the chicken or the egg?”

Now, did he perform this specific measurement that was published or not? That I have not asked him. I considered this unimportant since he showed me results of other measurements that proved the theory correct. By the way I have found an ancient VHS video of very bad quality that shows Mr. Vajda performing a proof of concept measurement. But not this type, which needs a lab deaf-room. He rather focused on building wave amplifier devices like those in his patent application. One such amplifier is tested on the video, when he has proven with measurements, that the amplification COP of this specific test device is about 1.2.

I will transcribe the talk of Janos and translate what he said into better English, and then add it as subtitles. Then it can be upload to my youtube channel if the owners of the video approve of it. I will let you know when ready.

So, YES there were measurements that proved COP>1, and yes there is at least one original video showing Janos himself doing this measurement. But I know that for the antagonists and disinfo agents no such video or presented results will be proof enough. The only way to prove this that demolishes all scepticism is if the sceptic himself does the measurement. This is another reason why I am not so eager to perform such basic “provings”. I would rather build amplifiers and measure their performance like Janos did. Nevertheless, I am still eager to see the results of the proposed deaf room measurement (which does not requires a wave amplifier) if someone would perform it and share the results.
Quote
“The trick though is all the transmitters need to have the exact same frequency and be timed (i.e. phased) properly. Any overlap of the transmitted signals results in a stronger signal at the receivers.”
Of course, if you have understood the book of Janos, you must know that for gaining excess power you must use identical frequencies, and phase. Without this there is no gain in total power.

Quote
“ The received signal strength is not some multiple of all the transmitted signals however, it is more of a sum.”

For gaining power the identical frequency, phase, and polarization are not enough. The distance between the antennas is also crucial. Just read the book of Janos several times, and if it still did not sink in what are the requirements for total power gain, then read some more. It’s all there spoon-fed to al who have sufficient intelligence and prerequisite knowledge of the field.

OK, so let me give away a “little secret” that one has to keep in mind when aiming for COP>1. There should be negligible, or at least minimal energy coupling between the input antennas or apertures. This is why Janos has put the dipoles on a common axis, because the radiation is negligible along the axes of the antenna rods/wires. If all these requirements are not strictly implemented according to precise calculations in the transmission setup, then naturally you will not obtain COP>1 total resultant power output. This is the reason why you will need to understand how to use those math formulas, if you want to develop FE devices. Simple fiddling and guessing will not get you very far.

Quote
”Surely the radio engineers and technicians developing, installing and testing such systems would have recognized any exponential increased in received signal strength by now if they in fact did occur in a simulcast system?”

The civil engineers and technicians are all subjected to severe brainwashing operations for several years before they get their diplomas. And they get that only, if they prove first that their brainwashing is in place and they are staunch religious believers of the “law of energy conservation” dogma. If you doubt it even for a second and they find it out, you won’t get your degrees and you will never work as a professional on these systems. Even those who measure the “anomalous” truth later will rather believe in measurement errors, than the blasphemy of non-conservation. Even if they believe that they have correctly measured COP>1, they would still not dare to announce this publicly before their retirement, because  they would lose their job and carrier.

This is why Janos waited with such a move until he got retired. And by the way, there are still such rare exceptions, who did report such anomalies, one of them is Janos Vajda if you have not noticed yet... Or is he “nobody” according to your criteria? I am sure there are more, just one has to dig for a long time for such reports, because they usually get suppressed.

Quote
“I was thinking exactly the same thing.  There are enough military applications of phase-array radar systems out there, surely an anomaly of this magnitude would have been noted in the literature someplace.”
Janos worked exactly for the military in radar technology. That is where he stumbled upon such “annoying” anomalies, which did not let him in peace, because he was pedantic when performing measurements, and such people don’t take it lightly if they are blamed for the nonexistent measurement errors. But this comment of yours is again a provocation. If you would have read the material on my site you would have known about this already. If you have known this, then why are you still using already debunked arguments? If you have not read my site, them why are you asking already clarified questions?

Yours is an argument just like this one: “There can not exist a generator with COP>1, because if it would exist, then the scientists and engineers would have surely already reported it, and everybody would know about it. Such devices would also be mass-produced by now for sure, and we could buy them in stores…”. Well, if you have such a great intelligence to use this type of argument, then what are you doing on a FE research forum? To antagonize advancement? Don’t take this personally, but this kind of attitude is not welcome (trying to be polite).

And finally read Message #4 from BEP on this thread:

http://overunity.com/3068/the-return-of-the-hungarian-free-energy-from-wave-fields/msg44911/#msg44911

Quote
“…I understand the ideas and have seen it proven many times in antenna work.”
“Only recently have folks acknowledged more power being radiated by certain antenna arrays than the power injected. Even long-time HAMs, the inventors and developers of so much, blow this type of information off as hog-wash. All the while revolutionary antenna designers implement these practices in cellular and WiFi antenna design. Even I have a slot antenna, on my roof, that puts out fives times what I put into it. The design is not new or by me. And No, I’m not talking about ERP.”
“’Loop antennas’‚’Three Sisters Effect’‚ and ‘Rogue Waves’ things like that and my mistakes at broadcasting my realizations made me the outcast I am today. All three are explained with this Hungarian’s paper.”

If you would have read this thread, you would have seen that indeed there are people who report such “anomalies”, just you would not listen, even less believe them. Apparently BEP is also a “nobody” for you… Well, suit yourself! Your loss, not mine…
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 04, 2016, 06:29:04 PM
Chet,

My comment in post #44:
Quote
Making the inventor happy? Why, have you got few million dollars that you don't need? Can you get a CPT patent approved for his invention? I doubt it.

was a reply to this statement of yours in comment #43
Quote
...i will reach out for you again and perhaps we can discuss a solution for Advancing this and making the inventor happy ?

To make the inventor Janos Vajda "happy", you would have had to righteously and fairly compensate him for the value his invention represents. I am not making this up, but this was actually in progress while we were working together. A big company from Canada has signed a contract and also a nondisclosure agreement with him, which ironically they themselves have broken later. Finally Janos has cancelled the contract because the company has broken the nondisclosure agreement. This was one of the reasons why Janos was not allowed to reveal to me more than he did at that time. Even from what he told me I had to keep back some bits until further development. They were not talking about pocket money, but about millions of dollars, and if you are asking me, even that kind of money is a trifle compared to the profit such an invention could produce via mass production.

His patent application that he submitted to the local patent office in Hungary was also denied, and he sued them even up to the level of the supreme court. This law suit fight dragged for many years, and last time I heard about it, it was still in progress. As far as I know he lost the case, because they did not grant him the patent. Well, now do you think you could make him happy without granting him what he wanted and righteously deserved, a patent and sufficient money for value?

This is why I have written, that if you are serious about making him happy, then you would have to grant him at least these two things. He certainly wanted to feel happy and successful, and he also deserved all those things. If you think that an inventor of this caliber supposed to be happy with trifles, few kind word, or some kind of "well done" pat on his back, then you are not serious. I am perfectly aware now that such conventional and normal path of developing and commercializing an invention will not succeed in the near future with FE inventions. But this does not give me, or you, or anyone else the right to expect or even demand from Janos, to give everything away for free so that others get rich from his work and genius, and still feel happy about it.

But no hard feelings, nothing personal with you. I am just pointing things out that are not quite as they should be. And I don't think there is any language barrier between us. I understand you perfectly, and what I have written was no euphemism, but literal truth. You could not possibly misunderstand it. On the other hand if you think there is a language barrier between us, then it would be even worse in a live conversation, when there is no time to think about correct expressions.

Just push on your measurement if you are serious about the subject, and you will get convinced. All necessary info has been provided for you. Now the ball is in your court.

Relax and Cheers,  :)
LZ
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: Dog-One on March 04, 2016, 07:28:36 PM
Janos worked exactly for the military in radar technology. That is where he stumbled upon such “annoying” anomalies, which did not let him in peace, because he was pedantic when performing measurements, and such people don’t take it lightly if they are blamed for the nonexistent measurement errors. But this comment of yours is again a provocation. If you would have read the material on my site you would have known about this already. If you have known this, then why are you still using already debunked arguments? If you have not read my site, them why are you asking already clarified questions?

Yours is an argument just like this one: “There can not exist a generator with COP>1, because if it would exist, then the scientists and engineers would have surely already reported it, and everybody would know about it. Such devices would also be mass-produced by now for sure, and we could buy them in stores…”. Well, if you have such a great intelligence to use this type of argument, then what are you doing on a FE research forum? To antagonize advancement? Don’t take this personally, but this kind of attitude is not welcome (trying to be polite).

And finally read Message #4 from BEP on this thread:

http://overunity.com/3068/the-return-of-the-hungarian-free-energy-from-wave-fields/msg44911/#msg44911

If you would have read this thread, you would have seen that indeed there are people who report such “anomalies”, just you would not listen, even less believe them. Apparently BEP is also a “nobody” for you… Well, suit yourself! Your loss, not mine…


Duely noted Zoltan.  I apologize for getting off on the wrong foot.  Much of what you have stated I agree with; the rest I just do not have enough experience with to choose a side.

I will go back to the beginning and enlighten myself to this subject in greater depth.

From what I have read so far, it would seem this characteristic of wave field superposition must be the fundamental mechanism involved in many FE devices.  The challenge then is to apply the math to such a device, so that it can be configured properly from the very start.  I am currently working on the Dally device as described in this thread (http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/).  For those who would like to assist in this effort, it will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: conradelektro on March 04, 2016, 07:32:44 PM
Dear LZ,

let's say (just for the sake of an argument) one believes the theory of Janos Vajda and one believes his measurements.

What would be the next step?


My speculation (please contradict me, if I am wrong):

I guess one would need a lot of money and time to develop a device which can indeed harvests energy from a Wave-Field (in case it were indeed possible).


Did Janos Vajda ever build and demonstrate a device that really got "free energy from a Wave-Field"? I mean without spending more energy, really free energy, indeed OU?

It looks to me like Janos Vaida has a theory (theoretical calculations and arguments) and did measurements, but he never could conclusively demonstrate a device that harvested free energy (without putting more energy in)?

May be Janos Vaida is right, but a conclusive proof by help of a working device is outstanding? One would need money to develop such a device?

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: pix on March 04, 2016, 08:46:31 PM

From what I have read so far, it would seem this characteristic of wave field superposition must be the fundamental mechanism involved in many FE devices.  The challenge then is to apply the math to such a device, so that it can be configured properly from the very start.  I am currently working on the Dally device as described in this thread (http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/).  For those who would like to assist in this effort, it will be greatly appreciated.


And that"s exactly what Tesla magnifying Transmitter works.
Electromagnetic wave superposition in 1/4 wavelength slow wave helical resonator.  Expotentiral " resonant rise" of wave amplitude .
The same may be done with waveguide and microwaves.
Different wavelength, different physical object to play with.
In my opinion, Mr.Vajda proved that the same applies with waves in a free space.
COP>1 is always when energy is exchanged with surrounding ambient space.
Law of energy conservation applies for closed systems, not for open systems.
Even simple heat pump or refrigerator has COP>1, because it uses ambient energy.

Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 05, 2016, 07:19:47 PM
Pix,

Quote
“Then what is the principle of Tesla Magnifying transmitter?
You don't need amplitude of the input signal increase together with standing wave amplitude increasing. I don't see such a thing in Tesla setup.”

You are criticizing this statement on mine:

Quote
“A standing wave in a simple resonator will not generate excess energy as long as the reciprocal action-reaction interaction is not broken in some cleaver way. This is so, because as the amplitude within the resonator increases, the amplitude of the input signal will also have to increase in order to be able to feed more energy into it. Therefore the input power will also have to increase in such a way, that there is no net energy gain.”

But you have ignored the paragraph right below this one, which was a clear disclaimer, explaining how the above text should be understood:

Quote
“Please note, that above I refereed to simple resonators or resonant systems that are used in everyday practice (they produce no excess energy). But this does not mean, that it is not possible to make special resonators that break reciprocal interaction between the input and the energy within the system (and/or output), which could enable the principle of wave interference to produce excess energy. But again, even in these special resonators, the free energy generating principle is not the resonance itself, but the wave interference combined with the trick that breaks the symmetry.”

I have clearly explained that it is indeed possible to make special resonators that can produce excess energy. What is the difference between a simple conventional resonator and a special resonator? The difference is that in a simple common resonator there is a direct reciprocal coupling between the energy and amplitude of oscillation accumulated within the resonator; while in the special FE resonators this symmetry has been broken.

A mechanical example of a simple conventional resonator is a swing hanging in your back yard. When the kid is sitting on the swing and you start to get it going, you apply some force forwards and do some work while doing it, then let it swing forward and back until it stops moving. Then you apply some force forward and do work again, which will be added to the energy already present in the swing and it will increase the amplitude of the speed and height, and so on. You are driving it at its resonant frequency (otherwise it will not swing harmoniously).

Now is this generating free energy, just because the amplitude and the accumulated energy is increasing? I hope you don’t think so… Because Veljko Milkovic believes (even after more than a decade of warning him) that by increasing the amplitude of a two stage (or double) mechanical oscillator (or pendulum) with many small input energy impulses energy is gained. OK, let’s make clear, his device is not a simple pendulum like a swing, but it is still just an accumulator of input energy, and it is not an energy amplifier. It will accumulate and contain only as much energy as you put into it, just it comes out at the output in a different form than it was put into the system. More than 10 years ago I have performed a scientific modelling of the double pendulum, analyzed it mathematically and proved, that there is no excess energy created in it. It was on my old website, but he ignored it…

If you are pushing the swing at the moment when it is vertical and speed is highest, then you will have to move your hand faster and faster after each cycle while the amplitude in increasing, this is the phenomena of reciprocal symmetrical coupling between the input and the contained energy. If the swing would be huge like hanging on a mile long chain and having a ton of weight you could reach a point when the speed in vertical position would be so high, that you would not be able push it anymore and could not feed more energy into it.

Now you are thinking, that if you would push it at the moment when its speed is zero, then you would not have this problem right? Discovered the key to free energy… But as the amplitude is increasing the height to which the mile long swing would rise would also continuously increase, and you would have climb higher and higher, but even then the energy content of the system would increase only with the amount you would add to it in each cycle.

Another example is a simple acoustic resonator consisting of a tube closed at one end and having a piston at the other end. When you start driving the piston at the resonant frequency, in the beginning you would have to apply only a small force to increase the energy content each cycle. But as the amplitude of the pressure increases inside, the counter-force that it applies to the piston also increases. Therefore you would have to push the piston with greater and greater force each cycle to increase the energy inside, until you would not be able to push it anymore. Now in this case the phenomena of wave interference is present in the resonator. Therefore you might think that in every cycle you just add a wave of the same amplitude as the first one, spending the same little input energy. While in mean time the amplitudes of these waves would add together, and the total energy inside would not be the simple sum of all input energies, but it would rise at an exponential rate, and you could generate free energy.

It is true that due to interference the contained energy would not increase in a linear fashion (like a simple addition) but rather at an exponential rate. But the reactive force of the pressure on the piston that you have to overcome would also rise exponentially. The energy that you must input in each cycle (at constant displacement) would also rise exponentially. Consequently the reciprocal symmetric coupling at the input would make sure that you must input the same amount of energy (or more) than what the wave in the resonator would contain. I could bring up more examples, but I hope this explained well enough the nature of simple resonators with symmetric reciprocal coupling between the input and the contained energy.

Unless you break this coupling completely or at least partially, you will not gain excess energy in a resonator no matter how complicated or fancy it is. No matter whether Tesla himself built it or not. Is it possible to break this symmetry? Yes, it is possible by implementing a little trick that I have already revealed to you in my previous posts. One example of such FE resonator is the invention of Janos Vajda, in which despite the energy content inside the resonator increasing exponentially, the input signal at the input terminals would not have to increase in order to continue the process. The input amplitude and power can be kept constant, because the backward flow of energy from the resonator into the input energy generator would be non existent or minimal. The symmetrical reciprocal coupling at the input is broken – FE generation is possible. The little trick to break this symmetry is to keep the dipole radiators on top of each other on the common axis of the wires. If you use a full wave dipole instead of two half wave dipoles, then you have no such problem. If the output receiver is the same as the input driver antenna, then you will have to separate the input signal from the output signal outside of the resonator with a circulator.

I have never measured or witnessed the working of a Tesla Magnifying transmitter, so I prefer not to get involved into a debate about something there is no way of knowing, and it would be pure speculation only. But I suspect that the input power generators burned down not due to the extraction of continuous usable excess power, but rather due to the accumulation of an enormous amount of energy oscillating in the system. The amplitude of the wave and the electric field rose so high that the grass started to display HV discharge and glow. Of course no common generator can withstand such high eclectic potential and the insulators could break down inside the generators and burn down. The phenomena is analogous to breaking up of matter in resonators by extreme amplitudes of oscillation. But this spectacular phenomena in itself does not mean, that FE is generated in the system. But again a disclaimer: the scenario of this paragraph is only my educated speculation, and guess. I have never experimented with such system, so I don’t know what kind of processes inside the earth could contribute, or not contribute at all. So I would suggest that in this thread we should not get lost into discussing Tesla towers, or other perceived FE proposals. Let’s keep that to other threads.

Quote
“He even made a small mechanical oscillator that he used on the steel bridge, and put that bridge in resonance, he had to stop that experiment because vibrations of that bridge became too dangerous.”

This has been already explained, the spectacular phenomena is due to the great amount of accumulated energy in the system, which is destructive. But it does not generates excess energy. Please people don’t mix up season with reason. Don’t mix up energy with power, they are two completely different things. You may increase the energy content of a resonant system while still not increasing the energy output from that system, which could represent a generated excess energy.

The small mechanical oscillator had to give all that energy to the steel bridge, which it contained. If it would be so simple to make an FE generator, then we could all just build such a simple mechanical resonator, attach it to a strong steel pole, and tap the energy accumulating in it. Right? We could all heat our homes in a week or two with this great “FE generator”… right? Unfortunately not. It is not that simple, first you have to understand extremely important FE principles and use them in the design of a device, then you have got a chance to gain excess energy. Otherwise you are only playing the game of blind is leading those who don’t see. Hey, people follow me! Where are you going? Nowhere…

Quote
“Watch this animation, what you can get when interfering harmonic modes of base wave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXlzCX5gio”

Nice animation!

Quote
“Law of energy conservation applies for closed systems, not for open systems.”

I disagree. The law of energy conservation has got no general validity in wave fields, not even in closed systems. This has been proven mathematically in Mr. Vajda’s book. The FE generator of Mr. Vajda is a closed system. Before somebody starts to speculate that the excess energy is stolen from the ether, let me tell you that is not true. I will explain that in more detail in a separate paper.

Cheers,
LZ
Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: pix on March 05, 2016, 08:43:07 PM
@ZL
Thanks for explanation.
For sure you have a much better understanding of Mr.Vajda work, because you work together.
But I don't have enough knowledge to fully understand Mr.Vajda work.
From the school I remember lessons about waves interfering destructively or additively.
Different kind of waves needs different medium for interference, I mean for practical use of that interference.
I think that Tesla did something similiar, with electromagnetic waves additively interfering in 1/4 slow wave helical resonator.

The mystery behind Tesla Magnifying Transmitter is simple LC circuit where capacitor, charged  to enough voltage for breaking spark gap - causes LC circuit oscillation.
Attention: you charge capacitor ONCE and when spark gap fires- you will have MILIONS of damped wave oscillations.
You input ONE and get MILIONS.
Imagine a graph plotted : voltage on vertical line, time on horizontal line.
First, voltage on the capacitor is rising during some time ( and we could calculate energy put into capacitor as area below the charging line) then spark gap fires and now we have a lot of damped oscillations plotted on the graph- and now calculate all those areas curved by voltage  oscillation).
Now, the point is to harvest and ACCUMULATE those oscillations in a such way, to not destroy those primary LC oscillations.
(The same analogy with child on the swing- look at it from energy point of wiew: you pull child with a swing once- you did some work one time , and let it go- it swings many times.) Mechanically, according to law of energy conservation on that swing with a child we do not gain any energy, energy simply changes state from potential to kinetic. But looking at it from electromagnetic point of view, one input energy to capacitor gives a lot of oscillations in LC circuit. And in electromagnetics the oscillations are the ones that makes induction in the coils. We just need to find a smart way to collect those oscillations.
To harvest that LC oscillations that Nature gives us freely, Tesla utilised "secondary coil" resonant with primary LC circuit, and lossely coupled ( 0,1-0,3) to primary. Lose coupling acts lika a one way gate, so there is broken symmetry: primary influences secondary, but secondary does not influence primary ( or influences to some small extent) , because of big difference in impedance and because primary circuit is open when spark gap is extinguished.
Energy is trapped and accumulated because of resonance tuning in secondary coil.
So, in secondary all those oscillations are ACCUMULATED by resonant electromagnetic waves , additive interference.
As primary oscillations are damped waves, the input "push" for secondary is not increasing together with increased amplitude in secondary.
Amplitude increase in secondary is purely caused by resonant ( additive) waves interference.
Length of secondary is 1/4 wavelenght, so maximum voltage we have on the top of secondary.
Primary is at the base of secondary, and influences secondary at the point where amplitude is minimal.
To further broke secondary influence on primary circuit, Tesla used a third, EXTRA coil.
To prevent energy on secondary from radiating away, Tesla used quite low frequencies, up to 50kHz.
That ia a beautiful way of harvesting and ACCUMULATING  primary LC tank oscillations, that Nature gives us for free.
This is pure free energy.
In Tesla setup we take an advantage of space and medium properties, that LC circuit oscillates.
Sorry for my english.



Title: Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
Post by: ZL on March 06, 2016, 06:20:38 PM
Dear Conrad,

Quote
”let's say (just for the sake of an argument) one believes the theory of Janos Vajda and one believes his measurements.”

This sounds (just for the sake of an argument) like a religious statement where one must “believe” (or not to believe), because there is no other way of knowing it’s validity with certainty. This is a wrong approach. There is a way of knowing it’s validity with certainty, by simply trying to find an error in Mr. Vajda’s proof. If neither you, nor anyone else familiar with the microwave theory and mathematics can find any real errors in it that would falsify it’s final results and conclusions, then by definition it must be correct and true.

To know the validity of the formula that describes the volume of a cube V=L^3 you don’t have to blindly believe like a good follower of a religion. You don’t have to build several cubes either to do measurements and convince yourself. All you need to do is to learn geometry and the relevant part of mathematics and try to find an error in the derivation of this formula (V=L*L*L=L^3). If you can not find any error in it, then by definition it must be true.

Quote
”What would be the next step?”

It depends on “whose” next step you are talking about, and what is his intent or goal he wants to achieve. Everybody can contribute to the ultimate success of this technology according to his knowledge, skills, and financial capabilities. For example at the moment I don’t have money to perform measurements and physically develop a commercial generator. But that does not means that I can not contribute to the development. I can still collect relevant useful knowledge, and design and develop devices and measurements theoretically that others could build who have got the means and equipment. The task can be broken up according to skills, and let everybody do their part and participate with what they have.

For a decent professional development one would really need a well equipped laboratory either for microwave technology or acoustics, which is not cheap. More than 10 years ago I have asked Mr. Vajda how much money would we need to buy all the instruments, equipment, and create a laboratory. He estimated it to about 100000 USD. Since then I suppose the instruments got cheaper, so this figure can be significantly lower. But it would be still expensive for the “common mortals”.

But one can do measurements and take humble steps towards development even without such professional laboratory. This approach would cost so much less that even a well-to-do single individual could afford it. An example for this type of work is performing the measurement proposal that is posted on my website. Another example is that one could build wave amplifiers based on Mr. Vajda’s patent application, and perform measurements on them. Then publish all such data in nice and clear presentation, perhaps with additional video presentation. These projects can be accomplished well within the means of individuals, who have got good incomes or savings.

If one can not afford even this, but has got the expertise, inventive talent, and dedication, then he can study the subject, and using scientific methods design and develop the technology at a theoretical level, leaving the physical realisation of the devices to others. Right now unfortunately this is the only thing I can do.

If one can not do this either, then he can still surely spread the information that is published on my site and the book of Janos, so that people should know about it. Then there will be a chance that people with the necessary funds and/or equipment and expertise will get involved, and develop commercial generators and share the designs, or sell the generators. Another thing to do is to print the book of Janos and some important documents from my site, and preserve them for future generations. In case these machines will not get into mass production during our lifetimes, and we can not build them for ourselves either due to lack of money, then at least make sure that the future generations get a chance at it.

A third noble contribution people could do is to financially support my efforts to at least be able to work on this theoretically full time, publish my results, translate important documents, and participate in forum discussions. At the moment I can do this because I am living on my savings, which won’t last much longer. When that is exhausted then either I will have to stop doing this again (like before) and get a boring job just to make money to survive, or receive enough donations to pay my bills and food at least. I live a Spartan life like a recluse, so these expenses are really small, something like $200 per month. As long as I get this much support I can go on working on it full time.

I have tried to pursue FE research while having a full time job, but in this field that I am pursuing and with the scientific approach I use, this is simply not possible. After work it is already evening, one has to cook, eat, take shower etc. and then one must sleep enough as well. There is no sufficient energy and time left to do even a tiny progress in a hobby type research this way.

Quote
”Did Janos Vajda ever build and demonstrate a device that really got "free energy from a Wave-Field"? I mean without spending more energy, really free energy, indeed OU?”

He has built wave amplifiers that gave out more than 1.2 times more energy than what they received at the input. To make this self sustaining  one would have to solve the problem of a positive feedback loop with a regulator in the circuit, so that the power would be controllable and the device would not “run away”, or burn down. I am not sure if he has accomplished this in practice or not, because he was forbidden to tell me everything at that time, due to nondisclosure agreement he made with a Canadian company. I will soon upload a video which demonstrates a measurement of such a passive wave amplifier.
Quote
”One would need money to develop such a device?”

Well, if you can convince people to work for free, and the stores to give us everything we need for the development for free, then we could do without money. But as long as money is king, we surely need money.

Regards,
ZL
Title: The Source of Excess Energy - help file
Post by: ZL on April 16, 2016, 08:58:55 AM
A study about the source of excess energy in wave fields is in writing, and in order to prevent any possible future disputes about who knew what and when, a password protected file has been attached to this post. It contains some important bullet point information.
It will be needed and used only in case of any significant dispute, when the password will be provided and the content revealed.

Otherwise please just ignore this post for now.
Zoltan Losonc