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Author Topic: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...  (Read 39814 times)

Offline giantkiller

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2007, 09:52:48 AM »

"The device which forms the basis of this invention enables - with the help of passive structural units -  the followings: Place two or more elementary radiating sources side by side and in this radiation field favourably superposition these fields to increase the energy of the result wave and convert this surplus energy into other energy form(i.e heat) in order to utilize it. By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires. If the elementary radiating sources are of other types they can be connected - with the proper phase alignment- through coaxial or stripe wires(3). These wires(i.e 2,3) connect the elementary radiating sources and provide the output based upon the incoming/outgoing high frequency signals."


The description of the 2 intersecting frequencies with a 3rd thrown in is the same field configuration as Hutchison. He uses 2 Tesla coils and a transducer.

--giantkiller. If I fell off the train here let me know.

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Offline Doug1

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2008, 01:24:35 PM »
                             
Quote
                           Practical considerations

 

"Finally let?s see how can this principle be utilized for the generation of free energy in practice.

To create the initial conditions of the process, we need an energy source to feed two or more radiation sources. The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization. "

    I toke this to mean there is one source split into two or more radiators which superimpose to a 1 to 4 gain in the end at the collector. Send back one unit or the equal amount of energy used to start the process to repeat the process and syphon off 3 units for use or 2 if you have to use one unit to cover losses. The split has to be oriented in the same polarization N/S. because waves can pass right by each other going in opposite directions but will only combine when going the same way resulting in a gain only in the same direction and only if the two or more are exactly identical and happening together at the same time. Yes no? if so then waves do not calculate the same way as solids or liquids 1+1 is not 2 in wave propagation or wave addition.

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2008, 05:16:38 PM »
                             
Quote
                           Practical considerations

 

"Finally let?s see how can this principle be utilized for the generation of free energy in practice.

To create the initial conditions of the process, we need an energy source to feed two or more radiation sources. The radiators should be arranged so as to have minimal back coupling between them (the wave radiated from the 1st source should cause minimal, or zero energy loss in the 2nd source and vice versa). If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization. "

    I toke this to mean there is one source split into two or more radiators which superimpose to a 1 to 4 gain in the end at the collector. Send back one unit or the equal amount of energy used to start the process to repeat the process and syphon off 3 units for use or 2 if you have to use one unit to cover losses. The split has to be oriented in the same polarization N/S. because waves can pass right by each other going in opposite directions but will only combine when going the same way resulting in a gain only in the same direction

The boldfaced, underlined statement is not true, if the sources are different!  Ref. JDO300 experiments and cOmsters experiment.

and only if the two or more are exactly identical and happening together at the same time. Yes no? if so then waves do not calculate the same way as solids or liquids 1+1 is not 2 in wave propagation or wave addition.

Identical signals, sent in opposition to one another, do indeed double in amplitude, if each has it's own source. (Separate power supply)


Cheers,

Bruce

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2008, 05:16:38 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2008, 07:34:41 PM »
Doug1 is correct but only when speaking of transverse EM waves, especially if the wave leading and trailing edges are gradual.

When folks start to believe that a TEM wave is only the result of an LEM wave -and- vice versa and one cannot exist without the other then possibilities will grow.

Like Jason's experiment - you can see some results if the sources of energy are not separated but they will be minor.

If I have the choice of staring-down a Tsunami or standing between two at the meeting point, guess which one I'll pick.

Until these 'Laws' are no longer applied in a blanket fashion we are stuck. Why is it the EE clan can't understand how to make a short piece of wire resonate at a subharmonic when the RE's (I like that acronym  :) or radio engineers have been doing it for decades?

If you can do it in a water filled wave tank you can do it in a waveguide. Ten's of thousands died a while ago and just recently we started to check for longitudinal wave movement?

Those who do figure these things out are practically beaten with sticks. The ones who have the power to bring new ideas to light won't do it because they'll loose their retirement.

I have only a little hope at this point.

Offline Doug1

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 12:43:50 PM »
BruceT
   I was stating what I found interesting in the quote of the paper presented. With out trying it out for myself physically I can only comment on the presented information. Waves passing by each other is something I have seen first hand. Which at times appear to be wave reflection but could just as easily be waves passing each other. The magnitude of two two waves colliding does not yield enough gain to account for double the wave energy. it is not even as much as would be expected if one wave was completely riding over the other. This being observed in nature physically by eye.
    Much of my wire has been lost to trying to make things work using excepted methods perhaps it is time to change tact and stop expecting some type of results to be different while applying methods which have not so far had as high a gain as one might hope for.
   
    One thing I have tried and used is to run two circuits off a single ground wire which use two different voltages that are not even running in the same direction using different power supplies. There was no interference of the two as they crossed paths for short distance. Perhaps there is some consideration to the rest of the physical lay out of what you have stated to be a gain in placing two circuits against each other using two power supplies. Personally I dont see how using two power supplies applies to the statement I quoted from unless you take into account the physical design of what the test results were derived from.
   As wave theory goes I also do not believe using a water tank reveals all that is happening with in the medium. It only shows the effects of the wave in the horizonal plane not the vertical where the two pass by each other or collide with reference to the complete vertical collision. So it may not be conclusive regarding two waves passing each other with or without imparting energy to each other in the sense of gain. Different mediums react to external changes and influences in accordance to their own density. I really do not believe a couple of metal cars or water waves are going to behave like a magnetic field which is more elastic then a Honda Civic.
   Even water will most likely act more like a solid then a magnetic field.

   back to the topic at hand
 One of tesla's motor patents which i can not recall the reference # off the top of my head has a number of bi wound coils actually i believe every second coil is tri with the alternate coils being biwound  in the same manor as Bedinni uses his bi-wound and looks a lot like a number of other designs which pop up regularly. perhaps there is some sort of hidden reference to the energy recaptured and it's direction of travel that could help with the tpu.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 12:43:50 PM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2008, 01:07:44 PM »
If no one objects too strongly we could pick apart what Marks says in section three word for word then work it backwards logically starting with the desired output.

Offline RobotHead

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2008, 09:04:31 AM »
Look at the attending Hungarian speaker at this energy conference. 

http://www.cei2008.org/registrated.php

Vajda janos gimnazium to talk on "Why don't we try a different way"

Is this the same Mr. Vajda?  Sure seems like it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2008, 09:04:31 AM »
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Offline RobotHead

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2008, 09:21:37 AM »
Image from the abstract also attached.

Hope this helps, I'm no good at the electronics but very interested in what you guys are trying to do, will hunt down anything that you need on the net if I can, just ask.
Acerzw, that first diagram is obviously a collector cavity shaped as an ellipse, where the waves are emitted from one foci of the ellipse and collected at the other foci.  An ellipse has the special property where it takes the same length to go from one foci to the other regardless of direction it leaves the emitter foci.  As explained earlier "If the arrangement allows the waves to expand in free space as spherical waves, then after the interference of the waves we will have to find a way to collect them again into a receiver antenna for utilization." 

Or from the provided translation, "By the export version of this device the elementary radiating sources into which the input signals flow and the elementary radiating sources which receive the waves are placed inside a properly positioned reflecting surface(1). The phase centers of of the elementary radiating sources are placed in the focus points(F1, F2) where they are connected through dipol(2) wires."

This is what this thing does.  It collects the waves so they are perfectly in phase.  Ingeniously simple.

The second diagram looks to be a microwave generator or maybe a collector or both?  Makes sense since he said he did this with microwaves.

There is enough information here for anyone with good knowledge of microwaves to reproduce his device.

Offline RobotHead

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »
tao, do you have the section "Confirmed by Scientific Analysis &  Measurements" for this wave field study? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »
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Offline ZL

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2016, 05:22:08 PM »
Apparently this thread is dead by now, but just in case somebody is still interested, I will post the link to a new website which will resurrect some of the most important subjects and articles of my old FE website, and expand on it.

Thanks to Tao and all those who contributed for backing up my old site and keeping the subject alive.

The new site contains two salvaged articles at the moment at:

feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields
feprinciples.wordpress.com/how-to-gain-free-energy-from-wave-fields-simplified-explanation

More to be added later.

Regards,
Zoltan Losonc

Offline ZL

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2016, 03:40:25 PM »
The intended links in my last post did not turn into clickable links, so let me re-post them this time in a different format:

https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields
https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/how-to-gain-free-energy-from-wave-fields-simplified-explanation

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2016, 03:40:25 PM »
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Offline ZL

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2016, 06:50:07 PM »
Kator01,

Thanks for your input.
I hope though, that the www.Distinti.com and the video you linked are not yours  ;)

In the comment section of the video www.Distinti.com makes the following false statement:

Quote
"In the case of two dipoles, using proper techniques, at any given radius there will be points where the power is 2 times the power of the isotropic (of the pair).  And because other points have less; the total integrated power will come out properly to be that of two antennas. "

This has been discussed on pages 5 and 6 of the latest version 1.2 of Janos Vajda's paper. You can download it from my website linked in my last post. On page 40 you will find the COP results of two Hertz dipoles radiating identical frequencies. This formula is the result of an integration performed over a closed surface around the antennas in far field. From the diagram you can see that the power is conserved (Ps/Pin=1) only in special cases. But in general, the total input power is not identical with the output power in far field. It can be greater or smaller than the resultant output power, depending on phase relationship, and on the distance between the antennas.

Further nonsensical statements of www.Distinti.com in comments section of the video:

Quote
"The ultimate point of this video is to show that there is no electric field in a radio wave (there is actually another Antenna Paradox video coming soon which delves further into this point)...

"power does not add linearly; however, we cant add voltages in parallel because voltages in parallel do not add; thus the "so called" E-Field of an electromagnetic wave is incorrect, electromagnetic energy is a kinetic transmission of energy which is more akin to current.......

"I am merely using it to explain that the parallel incident waves can not be have electric fields. "

I hope there is no need to press the issue, that the electromagnetic wave has got an electric field component... ;D
---

I have taken a quick look at Raymond Phillips' patent US4685047, but did not read it to the end yet. Based on the excerpt and the schematic diagram I don't see anything revolutionary in it at all, in fact I can hardly imagine any use for this thing. The power you could get this way is minuscule, except perhaps near very powerful radio or TV stations, which is basically useless to humanity at large.

Offline ZL

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2016, 07:04:29 PM »
Forgot to mention that on my new website there is an improved English translation of Janos Vajda's paper, it is version 1.2 published on 14. 02. 2016. Therefore, even if you readers have got the older version in your archives, it is worth downloading the latest version as well (before it disappears  ;) ). It can be downloaded from:

https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/free-energy-from-wave-fields/

Since the paper is a free document and it generates no income, I could not hire a professional editor to proofread it. If there is a volunteer who's mother tongue is English, and is able to find out the proper technical terms used in microwave technology and mathematics, who is willing to read the text, find grammatical or linguistic errors and suggest corrections, that would be great. Only the English text needs to be verified, the formulas have been checked by Janos.

Offline Kator01

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Re: The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields...
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2016, 07:43:49 PM »
Hello ZL,

thank you for your comments. No, destinti is not my channel. Actually I did not read his comments so I missed these wrong statements. Also I missed the distinction between near- and far-field which would make this statement about the "non existence of electric field component " obsolete.

When I learned of your webssite I remembered that I read about Vajdas long time ago. Meanwhile I had bought a new computer more that 8 years ago and lost a lot of archived data as I usually archive extraordinalry things before they vanish.

So here it is again thanks to your effort and I will send this to a few friends of mine who are electronic professionals both of which are ham-radio professional, as I have no means at this time to experiment in this field.

Thank you for all of your effort. This time I will create a double-archive

Quote
hope there is no need to press the issue, that the electromagnetic wave has got an electric field component... (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
---

definitely not !

Regards

Kator01




 

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