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Author Topic: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...  (Read 45249 times)

Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 12:17:56 PM »
@tao,
Excellent post. I must admit this has also been on my mind for a while.
I had always been wondering why did Meyer need an alternator to run his cells?
For the un-initiated, look at this link and working it out:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcwav04.gif.
To me, this means he had around 110 v (near)DC at high current available to his
circuit. Then using DC resonant charging circuit Tesla coil technology, he
would bump the voltage up and pulse the water cell.
I believe the diode that confuses every one was simply there to stop the cell
capacitor from discharging.

There are 2 other unknowns:
1- the voltage,
2- the frequency and pulse characteristics.

Use of Avramenko plug is a good idea. Meyer could not switch off the high voltage pulses
applied to his cells fast enough ( before the ion avalanche) and that is why he was talking
about "amp limiting".



There must be a second wire in order to get amp flow.
Without this nothing would happen.

The current in Meyers circuit is an alternating current , with a dc offset, so through the whole cycle the current will flow only in one direction, alternating between a minimum and a maximum level.

If there are only inductive and capacitive components , the energy flow will switch between the source and the target.

There is no need for amp flow but, there is need for lining up the water molecules in the
right direction therefore biasing is necessary.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline zerotensor

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 12:28:04 PM »
Here I have marked-up the schematic for single-wire transmission to include a water capacitor cell.
The cell is situated in series with the transmission line.  The load can be part of the power supply for the transmitter!

Spewing

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 12:37:39 PM »
OMG supurb with the electronics! Thank you much for bringing this circuit to my attention!

so whats taking everyone so long to confirm??? any gas yet???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 12:37:39 PM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:31 PM »
How this might work:  (pure conjecture, at this point--so be gentle!)
Standing waves of potential are created along the transmission line.  The trick would be to match the wavelength of the standing waves within the water to the plate separation distance. This could be done by tuning the frequency, the load, or both.

Spewing

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 01:37:14 PM »
doh, i think i got the wrong diode

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 01:37:14 PM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 01:42:12 PM »
Considering that the water itself forms part of the (HV, current free) transmission line, here's how one might bias the cap:

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 02:05:04 PM »
Blimey DM, you've been digging around to find this thread!

Not sure Tao is still around, but it would be nice to hear his comments again.

Ok, the Av Plug uses no power as no current is drawn.  Power = V x I, and we have no I... so no power, only potential energy.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I have got one of my problems again.

As the voltage on the capacitor plates is a direct result of charge build up on those plates, how can we have a voltage there unless charges (current) has flowed there in the first place?  If there are no +ve and -ve charges on the capacitor plates, then there is no potential difference across those plates - no voltage!

I've yet to read through the Avramenko Plug link, but I'm immediately suspicious of this concept in terms of the wfc.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 02:05:04 PM »
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Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 02:51:28 PM »
@farrah day,
For a moment forget electronics. Lets call this water in between the stainless steel tubes a water sandwich!
Conjecture: We don't care about capacitors/capacitance. All we want to do is to subject the water filling to ( pure) voltage.
We should not care whether current flows or not . Lets look at this this way, you can open a door using a crowbar ( electrolysis ) or use the door handle ( dielectric manipulation ).

If any one has experience of  the so called Avramenko plugs, can they be cascaded to obtain huge voltage potentials? I have tried and had no success.

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 03:01:38 PM »
Hi,

This starts to look like the Stiffler circuits here.....a WFC instead of a string of leds......Might be able to get some good ideas over from that thread.....

regards

Robert

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 03:01:38 PM »
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Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 04:05:04 PM »
Sorry AM, can't simply just dismiss a few of the technicalities here.

Look, I'm all for new ideas and theories, but something is wrong with this.

Pure voltage?

Yes, you can have voltage without current, ie a battery, but you can't have a voltage across a capacitor without charges on the plates - it's the charges on the plates that create the voltage!

Voltage is a difference in potential created by charges. To have a potential across the plates of a capacitor means that the charges on each have to be different, mis-matched.

Subjecting the water 'sandwich' to high voltage without current flowing is the whole problem, because that voltage is created by a high charge build up on the plates - granted if those charges were not there then no current could flow, but then there would be no voltage there either!

I think there is much misunderstanding here.


Offline starcruiser

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 05:12:39 PM »
I would think the capacitor in the AV plug diagram should be the WFC. The number of AV plugs could be one or more depending on the number of cells in the WFC. I would start with one AV plug and run the cells in parallel to start and then try a series config just to see what happens.

The spark gap is symbolic of the gap between the plates in the WFC. The electron drain (additional SS rod??) from the WFC would be the recycler of the potential back into the circuit or receiver. Wouldn't you think? maybe a SS container with the cells isolated from the container?

run the electron drain thru a load and back to the HV transformer as shown in one of the circuit diagrams (if I recall correctly).

Just some thoughts, I am arm chair quarter backing for now, not enough time to try this myself.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 05:12:39 PM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2008, 01:02:51 AM »

Yes, you can have voltage without current, ie a battery, but you can't have a voltage across a capacitor without charges on the plates - it's the charges on the plates that create the voltage!

Voltage is a difference in potential created by charges. To have a potential across the plates of a capacitor means that the charges on each have to be different, mis-matched

Voltage is not the right term to use in this situation.  What I think is being suggested here is that we are really talking about the potential, which is related to voltage, but not exactly the same thing.  "Voltage", as you use the term, really only applies in electrostatics.  In the potential formulation of relativistic electrodynamics, the scalar potential and the vector potential are unified in a single 4-vector potential.  A scalar potential can manifest in a region of space as a result of the coupling of vector potential fields produced at a distance, without piling up any charge there.  Such a potential has the same capacity to do work as one which is built out of a quasi-static arrangement of charges.

So, FD, what you say is true in electrostatics, but we are dealing with electrodynamic phenomena here.  The single-wire transmission line is a conduit for compression waves in the 4-potential.  Can such waves induce a scalar potential difference at a distance without piling up a bunch of charge there?  I think the answer is a definite yes.


Offline readyakira

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 01:44:28 AM »
Interesting in seeing how this one plays out.  I think you will still have some figures to play with when dealing with the wfc's changing properties as it is being used, but a very very interesting concept anyways.

Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 02:46:38 AM »
@zerotensor,
Quite so. Voltage was a wrong label for what I was trying to describe.
I was stuck for words to reply to FD. Thanks for your detailed response.

@readyakira

Yes. I believe we are going into unchartered waters.

AM

Offline demartin

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Re: Stanley Meyer, please meet Stanislav Avramenko: Water as a fuel...
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2008, 02:56:03 AM »
Quote from: zerotensor
In the potential formulation of relativistic electrodynamics, the scalar potential and the vector potential are unified in a single 4-vector potential.  A scalar potential can manifest in a region of space as a result of the coupling of vector potential fields produced at a distance, without piling up any charge there.  Such a potential has the same capacity to do work as one which is built out of a quasi-static arrangement of charges.

That's important. You could have a gradient-free scalar potential field that oscillates over time. What kind of work does this produce? Well, the Lorentz gauge shows that divergence of the vector potential is proportional to the time rate of change of scalar potential. Further, divergence of the vector potential is also proportional to charge density. Therefore if you have an oscillating voltage field, gradient-free, you would have oscillating charge density. This means the water molecule, being a dipole, would shrink and expand when exposed to such a field. The field would shrink and expand the electron shells too, perhaps switching off that covalent bonding electron pair and allowing the DC field maintained by the blocking diode to easily pull apart the water molecule.

[For those of you unfamiliar with those terms, scalar potential is basically the 'voltage' field from which an electric field arises when there is a gradient in it, while vector potential, aka "A-vec", is the 'flux' field from which magnetism arises when there is circulation in it].

 

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