Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 894037
  • *Total Topics: 15712
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 5
  • *Guests: 22
  • *Total: 27

Author Topic: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?  (Read 23869 times)

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« on: August 08, 2007, 04:12:35 PM »
Hi All,

I have just started to recently fall into the OU pit!

I ran across this patent:

Patent number: 6731035
Filing date: Mar 22, 2002
Issue date: May 4, 2004
Inventors: Chung-Nan Mu, Yu-Ta Tu

Apparatus for generating autogenic energy

Reading through the text for this very simple device, I think I understand how it creates an unbalance that results in motion.

This device seems simple enough to replicate, and I hope to try and replicate it.

My question to you folks is, why would this not work?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Omega_0

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 04:30:22 PM »
Can you please explain how it works?

The legal language in the patent ensures that no one understands it in just one reading :D

Gothic

  • Guest
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 04:32:25 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 04:32:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Iosh

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007, 04:35:05 PM »
If you could post the patent text it'd help lots at trying to understand how the device works! ;D
EDIT: Oh, thank you Gothic! You got it while I was complaining. :D
EDIT 2: *after looking at the PDF* Damn! Will anyone believe me if I say I've been thinking about this very same setup since a couple weeks ago? :D :D I gather the bearings have to be top quality for the "old steam train"-like transmission to work.

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 04:46:38 PM »
Thanks for posting the link Gothic, I will do so in the future.

I can't explain it in detail without refering to the drawings, and the patent text does a good job of explaining the mechanism.

I do think one diagram is labeled wrong, so don't get confused by this. I think the N/S polarity of magnet 51 (the sliding magnet) in figure 3 is backwards. In other figures it is correct.

This device seems to rely on two (or more) ideas to get around the sticky spot.

The first idea is using a flywheel to store the energy from the N-N push side of the cycle.

The second idea is a 10 degree offset of the position of the rotating magnet, creating a slight imbalance in favor of the N-N repulsion over the S-S repulsion.

It seems like you would have to input some energy to get started (spin the flywheel hard).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 04:46:38 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Thaelin

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1030
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 04:50:44 PM »
   Might well be a case of runner. I do feel tho that when you give it a bit of load, it will stop. And like a gasoline motor, make sure to balance the flywheel for the action of the "piston" action. Good luck mate.


thaelin

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 04:58:48 PM »
   Might well be a case of runner. I do feel tho that when you give it a bit of load, it will stop. And like a gasoline motor, make sure to balance the flywheel for the action of the "piston" action. Good luck mate.


thaelin


I not sure what you mean by runner?

Yes I have been thinking that the flywheel must be balanced in a way that includes all the connected parts, and that it must be massive enough to hold more energy than the S-S repulsion.

I too doubt that under load it would still work, but the patent says that through extensive testing they have shown that it will still work under a (unspecified) load.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 04:58:48 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 07:59:46 PM »
I think the flywheel is an important part of this device.

I have no practical experience using flywheels, so I was wondering what you folks here thought might be most appropriate.

Heavy fly wheel? and try for low rpm?
Light flywheel? and try for high rpm?

I was looking around at the model steam engine sites, and from that community it seems like heavy small (3" or so) bronze flywheels are available.

For a flywheel on the light side I was thinking of maybe just a disc made out of say 1/8-1/4" copper plate, maybe 6" in diameter?

Offline ryanjrx7

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 09:37:22 PM »
Guess I should of read this before I posted my old/new idea.  This link should help: http://science.howstuffworks.com/steam1.htm  Flywheels need to be heavy-their mass is the only thing that makes them useful.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 09:37:22 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 10:20:48 PM »
I assume there is a benefit to concentrating that mass at the rim?

Or would a solid disc be just as usefull?


Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 02:27:22 PM »
Well I have a steam engine flywheel, some brass rod and sheet, some bearings, some magnets, and even some lego parts all being shipped this week. I hope to get started trying to replicate this patent soon.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 02:27:22 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2007, 06:15:24 PM »
Ok, I have a brass axle now, with two plastic bearings on it, the flywheel mounted on one side (might be too small, and it is certainly not balanced), a simple crank  and push rod on the other side. The bearings seem to work well.

I have a plan for mounting the rotating magnet on the axle, with a counterweight for balance, but no plan yet for how to mount the sliding magnet on some kind of sliding back and forth tray. Ideas would be appreciated!

I also have to mount the axle/bearings into some kind of holder.

I'm hoping to just glue most of the pieces together.

And those grade 40 magnets are pretty strong!


Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2007, 07:37:11 PM »
I now have the rotating magnet attached in some form to the axle (super glue), and some counterweights. All pretty shaky and may fall apart, but I'll work on making that better.

It spins very easily, and I can at least play with the axle/rotor by holding the bearings. I need to mount this part soon.

So I am in the classic stage of being able to get the rotor to rotate, by using my hand to pulse what will be the sliding magnet. All meaningless motion I know, but it gives me a little idea of how this may behave.

I think it will want to rotate pretty fast, so the crank and pushrod mechanism will have to be smooth.

Still thinking about how to build the sliding magnet portion of the device. The patent shows an idealistic mechanism of just a rod and slot, but this will need much more support that that.

I have the next two weeks off from work, so I hope to be able to put a fair bit of time into this.

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4068
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2007, 08:00:42 PM »
....
Still thinking about how to build the sliding magnet portion of the device. The patent shows an idealistic mechanism of just a rod and slot, but this will need much more support that that.
.....

Hi,

Maybe the ideal solution would be to use linear bearing, embedded it into the slot?  This way the linear bearing would give a second 'fixing' point for the axle (#43 in the patent drawings) beside the arm (#42).

Another solution is maybe using two parallel rods as the middle part of the axle made out from two Y shaped parts facing each other by the parallel prongs and you fix two small ball bearings in the middle (one bearing on one prong, another on the other) and the bearings would roll/touch the inside walls of the slot?  A bit involved I know...

Maybe other members here can come up with better suggestions.

Gyula

EDIT:  Just occured to me another suggestion, a home made linear bearing...
Fix a short cross arm onto the outside of arm #42 and place two ball bearings at the edges of the short cross, the bearings will roll on the outside surface of support member #221 in Fig.1 and fix another short cross arm with two other ball bearings at its edges, these bearings will roll on the inside surface of member #221.  Basically you sandwich the support member #221 with 2-2 ball bearings that will be able slide easily on the surface of the member.  Understandable?

Offline ken_nyus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2007, 08:51:12 PM »
Hi,

Maybe the ideal solution would be to use linear bearing, embedded it into the slot?  This way the linear bearing would give a second 'fixing' point for the axle (#43 in the patent drawings) beside the arm (#42).

I have been searching for linear bearings on the web, but have not found anything that looks usefull. I'm not sure i really see how to use most of the linear bearings I have seen. If anyone has links to good parts suppliers, they would be appreciated.

Quote
Another solution is maybe using two parallel rods as the middle part of the axle made out from two Y shaped parts facing each other by the parallel prongs and you fix two small ball bearings in the middle (one bearing on one prong, another on the other) and the bearings would roll/touch the inside walls of the slot?  A bit involved I know...


I think I can visualize this, but not sure.

Quote
EDIT:  Just occured to me another suggestion, a home made linear bearing...
Fix a short cross arm onto the outside of arm #42 and place two ball bearings at the edges of the short cross, the bearings will roll on the outside surface of support member #221 in Fig.1 and fix another short cross arm with two other ball bearings at its edges, these bearings will roll on the inside surface of member #221.  Basically you sandwich the support member #221 with 2-2 ball bearings that will be able slide easily on the surface of the member.  Understandable?

I think I can see this one now too. I like this idea because it restricts total movement in several directions. It kind of clamps #43 to the plate #221.

I am turning the whole device 90 degrees so that the sliding member will move parallel to the ground, and then I think I will support #43 from both sides (in the patent they only support it on one side, the side with the flywheel using #221).

Using your idea this would be 4 bearings on each side, but it could be very stable repeatable movement if the bearings hug the support members tightly.

Thanks for the help!




 

OneLink