Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83955
  • *Latest: serials

  • *Total Posts: 525631
  • *Total Topics: 15646
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 0
  • *Guests: 8
  • *Total: 8

Author Topic: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project  (Read 12484 times)

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« on: August 05, 2007, 02:22:17 AM »
Hello all.

Hope this is in the right section. If not Stefan please do your magic.

I have been working on my RV system and had taken apart my Delco Remy car alternator to verify some things and then I got an idea.

Looking at the alternator parts, I realized that the stator is an already existing structure that is already proven it can produce 12 volts at 108 amps = 1296 watts. So when the stator receives the proper rotor field and rotor rotation of approx 1750-3600 rpm, it will produce 1296 watts.

Of course this is given the rotor magnetic field creates enough tension and speed on the stator.

Now what if I reproduced the rotor action virtually?

As seen in the pictures, the rotor has two rows of five triangular iron protrusions and there is one internal rotor coil. When the coil is energized as per their proper polarities, the top five triangles have a south field and the bottom five triangles have a north field. The triangular form is chosen because both have their tips towards the center thus making a permanent north/south magnetic field that rotates across the stator windings.

So what if I made 10 triangular coils to replace the iron triangles, 5 top wound in one direction and five bottom wound in the opposite direction. Better still, I could make three coils per triangle that are spread out to cover the empty spaces between the original rotor triangles so as to maintain a more realistic magnetic field movement.

I have provided a drawing to explain the general idea.

I am thinking that it is not really a rotation in the 360 degree sense but more of a switching on and almost off. What I mean by almost off is that the current, I figure (but could be wrong) would be about 33% - 66% and 100% of the applied current when switching the coils.

First of all I will not discuss about switching in the sense of hertz but in degrees. There are 30 coils so each coil would be activated in increments of 12 degrees. So each set of three would be simultaneously activated as follows;

At 00 Deg. 1-100% & 2-33% & 3-66%
At 12 Deg. 1-66%  & 2-100% & 3-33%
At 24 Deg. 1-33%  & 2-66% & 3-100%

The object of this coil fluctuation is to try and simulate the rotation of the original energized rotor, which is again a know structure that when turned inside a known stator will produce power.

This is not re-inventing the wheel but taking what already works and trying to adapt it to work without actually rotating.

What I need from any of the EEers is to design a circuit that can rotate current to the coils in the manner above, or in a manner that may be even better after discussions here.

I will build the rotor but have no aptitude to design the circuit. Hopefully the circuit could have a few more frills for variable control of the switching speed, etc., but this I leave up to all of us to discuss.

I am figuring that 100% voltage would be about 6 vdc at 3 amps, with switching of coils 1, 2 and 3 happening from about 25 to 100 times per second.

There is another possibility and that is to simply rotate the current from one coil to the other, right through the 30 coils at around 3600 or more cycles. There are many other mixes possible but in general, the above method would be a good place to start.

I will keep the Post #1 updated with any changes.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 05:18:17 AM by wattsup »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline runaway

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 12:59:47 AM »
Hi.

 I have also done some work with running a car alternator as a motor as in the attached google link below.
you dont need much input power into the rotor winding and actually it will run very well with this winding shorted out.!
All you need to drive it, is a H bridge FET circuit and have variable frequency control, and just wire it as in RV mode. becuase of the low voltage you will need a couple thousand microfarad on the circulating phase, and the way i did this was with 2 electrolytics back to back with diode protection across each one.

Cheers Phil....


http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=3754961939621506331&hl=en-AU

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 02:09:44 AM »
@runaway

Thanks for that RV alternator link.

But, the project above involves making a power producing alternator without a rotating rotor. Meaning the rotor does not turn. The virtual rotor will turn a magnetic field but not physically turn.

I'm into RV also so your link is very welcome. Thanks again.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 02:09:44 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline IronHead

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 970
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 02:11:59 AM »
MEG or motionless electric generator
I am very interested in your work here wattsup

Offline i_ron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 04:43:23 AM »
Hello all.

snip

Now what if I reproduced the rotor action virtually?

As seen in the pictures, the rotor has two rows of five triangular iron protrusions and there is one internal rotor coil. When the coil is energized as per their proper polarities, the top five triangles have a south field and the bottom five triangles have a north field. The triangular form is chosen because both have their tips towards the center thus making a permanent north/south magnetic field that rotates across the stator windings.

So what if I made 10 triangular coils to replace the iron triangles, 5 top wound in one direction and five bottom wound in the opposite direction. Better still, I could make three coils per triangle that are spread out to cover the empty spaces between the original rotor triangles so as to maintain a more realistic magnetic field movement.


I will keep the Post #1 updated with any changes.


Hi Wattsup

Good start. But I wonder if you are not placing too much emphasis on the triangles?
This is an artifact of construction. To make a magnetic finger across the inside of the
stator they have had to make it very robust to stand the 'centrifugal' forces. To do this they have had to make the tip very light and make the base of the finger very thick.

In your build you do not have these restrictions and can can just use a straight
finger coil providing you preserve the proper spacing. The only consideration then
is sometimes the angle of the stator, or the rotor, is at a slight angle to ease cogging.

Regards

Ron







Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 04:43:23 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline yandros

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 07:59:38 AM »
wattsup,

I hate to rain on your parade but it sounds to me as if you are just turning a standard alternator into a transformer. I am no expert on electric motors but I am quite certain that you need strong magnetic fields to create large currents. If your solenoids only create weak fields then your output will be a fraction of the maximum output.

I don't see where you expect to gain free energy with this setup...

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 03:22:24 PM »
@IronHead

Thanks for the comment.

@i_ron

The idea is to keep to the original structure that is a known working system. The guys that make these alternators have already spent the years required to optimize to the current design. You have 5 south coils that are 60 degrees apart and 5 north coils that are 60 degrees apart. The south coils are turned 30 degrees off the north coils.

Replicating the exact rotor motion will cut R&D time by not having to try so many other potential coil set-ups and stick with what already works. Also, the rotor design was established to marry well with the stator design. If the first set-up works, we can always try others later.

@yandros

You woud need a strong magnetic field if there is no rotation like a transformer. But the original rotor even when applied straight 12vdc onto it does not produce an excessively strong magnetic field because of the limited coil length and armature mass. It does not have to be too strong because it is rotating inside the stator. We just want to rotate the field instead of the rotor. Anyways, time will tell.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 03:22:24 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Dingus Mungus

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 859
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 04:44:17 PM »
Might be related, might not...
I think we're both trying to do the same thing but in different ways.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2771.msg43176.html#msg43176

~Dingus Mungus

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2007, 03:28:54 PM »
In my efforts to see if this project can be done with the least R & D possible using existing components, I'm think of the following alternatives.

Choice #1: I have a 1/2 hp 24 vdc DC PM motors laying around with good size rotor. The rotor already has its present windings and I remember there were a good number of them, I think 24. So why not simply pulse the windings in sequence and place the rotor inside the alternator strator. This will save me lots of R&D time instead of making my 30 coils right away and it will give me the opportunity to do some tests before I decide final methods.

Choice #2: The other option I am thinking is using a large step motor stator fitted inside the alternator stator and run the step motor stator with its regular drive module that already has controllability.

Also..........

I have also thought long about having a control panel that I will probably try to commission locally. This control panel will enable me to test and run the VAR as well as any other type of testing combo's I can possibly think of. I think it will be a good development tool. Maybe somewhat expensive but if I was to have to design a pulsing circuit every time I tried combos, I'd be wasting more time. So here's my idea for the control panel.

I call it a Multi-Pulser that simply has 40 terminals that can go on and off at specified times and intervals. The terminals do not provide any current or frequencies. They are as non-obtrusive as possible to the tested circuit, thus do not impede EMF and BEMF actions that can be initiated and redirected any where else on the circuit.

Why is the pulsing lenght in degrees and not in mS. Well at the base/base it will always be in mS but in the creative process, pulsing coils around a rotor or stator happens in degrees and for me, this can also be easier visualized in linear circuits. I feel mS adjustment or calculations in trying to make a living circuit is counter intuitive and can be better expressed in degrees.

I am so tired of not being able to put all my creations to life in the manner that I would like them to work because of my lack of EE savvy, that this device will expand my potential.

I also feel the advent of such a device in the hands of hundreds of testers should push the art of OU forward much faster since non EE'ers could use it. There could be other versions with less terminals and other functions but the main idea is here.

Maybe I should open a new thread on this idea.

Thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2007, 03:28:54 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Schpankme

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 03:08:47 PM »
... VAR ...

Maybe I should open a new thread on this idea.


Hello wattsup,

What ever became of your VAR Project ?

- Schpankme

Offline helmut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • in construction
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 03:57:25 PM »
@Wattsup

Keep on working!

The Number of read only Members might be bigger,then the active ones.

As you know:It does mean nothing,if you miss some replays.

Many people look up to your work.

helmut

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 03:57:25 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Localjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 08:58:57 PM »
@wattsup

I can offer the this knowledge, Cone shaped magnets produce a spherical magnetic feild around them.. May play a part in your orientation of your triangular coils. As well I think this is a way better idea for a meg than the tom bearden version... i bet the transistorized coil from the gstrain device could be modified to have coils inbetween the links facing the stators , the faster you spin/pulse the transistorized coil the higher the output should be on the stators as long as the inner fields are strong enough, may take a little play but an exceptional idea.
                                                                                                                                                                Joe


                                                                   

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 10:04:22 PM »
@Guys

Thanks for your comments and vote of confidence. When I first posted this idea, it did not produce that much comments so I decided to simply work on it on my own, slowly but surely.

The VAR project is still going but I have put it on a longer time frame since I now did most of the preliminary tests I needed to do to see how the original rotor produced its field and the strength of that field versus recreating the same field with small triangular triple coils. I now know that at 4-6 vdc applied to three small coils with about 20 turns of 26 awg wire each, I can recreate a close equivalent to the rotor field at that one triangle location.

My next move is to make the new virtual non-rotating rotor replacement, then it will be to make a driving circuit to start testing it out.

I will not be making the Multi-Pulser designed above as this is way out on my league and I will have to find a local company to commission it, but it is not urgent right now. If I can find a way to pulse the coils is three intervals, meaning 10 coils pulsed, they 10 more then 10 more, this would give me the virtual field movement I am looking for right now. When the time comes, I'll ask the EEers here to help out on the circuit design.

The main point here is by taking a known energy producing device, being the stator which can produce up to 1200 watts of power, I should be able to virtually excite them and  hopefully use less energy then it will produce. I know I know, it's impossible. But when did that every stop us from trying.

Offline one

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2008, 02:30:34 AM »
@Guys


The VAR project is still going but I have put it on a longer time frame since I now did most of the preliminary tests I needed to do to see how the original rotor produced its field and the strength of that field versus recreating the same field with small triangular triple coils. I now know that at 4-6 vdc applied to three small coils with about 20 turns of 26 awg wire each, I can recreate a close equivalent to the rotor field at that one triangle location.




Wattsup

I  tend to  agree with yandros  If you  simply make coils  and  apply a voltage to them  at best all you have is a transformer .

In my opinion    to have any hope of   reaching overunity  you have to  do  one of 2 things .

You have to apply  one or more of the " quirks " of electricity  in a way that most people wouldn't think about .

Or   .....you  have to   apply either  new  understanding   of  electricity or  rediscover  some  lost  knowledge of  electricity .

I am real sure that there is lots of lost knowledge  out there ......  Just trying to figure  out what Tesla knew could take a lifetime .


I  did not say anything  before  because I thought  my idea  for  rotating  a magnetic field would be to big ......that it would have  almost  no chance of  fitting inside the  stator.

If your  calculations  are right  about  the  coil  windings and voltage it might  have a shot.


I am suggesting that   you think about  using  resonance   as  a quirk to sneak  a little extra  power into your  circuits.

What if you  made your  coils .........then  matched them  to  capacators   to make  resonant  circuits?
What if you then  daisy  chained  the   resonant  circuits  so each one fed the next .

I am pretty  sure that lense law would keep  the whole thing from shorting out .

I am guessing that  a string of  resonant  circuits  closely  spaced together  will  drag each other down a little  ........so  they  might resonate  slower than expected . 


I was thinking that  once the  string of LC circuits could be fed from just a few points ...lets say ..... equivelent  to where  the center of the north  magnets would be. 





gary







Offline My Do It Energy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR) Project
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2008, 01:17:16 AM »
Hello  Wattsup

take a look @ this, it may help

Mike

 

OneLink