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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: Lightwave on May 30, 2005, 09:53:29 PM
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If your formilure with Stanley Meyer's pattents
http://tinyurl.com/cdro4
just add water to Tesla's patent
http://tinyurl.com/a2weu
The secret to natural resonance is in the length of a lightwave, combined with the music scale of 12 notes and 7 harmonic frequencies. Harmonics = X2 or Planks constant of 1/2. Natural resonance.
Lightwave
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ive been reading through a lot of meyers' patents. lots of good info. im going to try and replicate what hes done once im done with finals in a week and have more time.
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sorry to shatter everyones dreams, but ive been doing a lot of reading and research into this area. ive always had this thought in my head, but now its verified. its impossible to generate hydrogen by electrolysis and then use it to power an ICE with only water as the exhaust. this violates the laws of thermodynamics...but dont take my word for it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fuel_cell
and also
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html
as you can see from those two processes, they are equal and opposite, thus a closed loop system, which is possible, assuming 100% efficiency. but then no energy can be extracted from the system, making is useless....
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tman, thanks,
now I don't have to work on my projects anymore.
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by the way I've bettered the I,C,E,
and yes that is a FACT
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I think I put my comment to a wrong topic. sorry.
That's better in it.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,742.15.html
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That doesn't apply to Stan's patent he not extracting hydrogen by electrolysis. As you may have noticed this devise doesn't respond to Z matching for max power transfer. Stan's system is electronically stripping the hydrogen from the water molecule. In fact it's necessary to limit the current to 5 milliamps. Haven't you seen vids of Stan's car running? Don't give up your project. 40000 volts at .005 amps is only a 200 watt output requirement plus imput the drive the curcuit a 25 amp fuse should handle it. Just install the highest amp stator you can get for your cars alternator and go.
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Ok, I know that's not "electrolisis". The very strong electric force split the molecule.
The problem with the meyer cell is, the ohmic loss. I cannot put any high voltage to water, because the cell's resistance about few hundred ohms. (with tap water, with distilled water it increases to few kiloohms) An 500 ohm cell resistance at 1KV means 2A, it needs 2KW of power. The resonance cannot help to reduce the power consumption, because the resistance of the cell reduces the Q of the oscillating circuit. (formed by the inductor, and cell capacitor)
I think Meyer used insulator coated electrodes, so it generates better resonance effect. In the next experiment I'm going to try it.
If I remember correctly Meyer said 0,5A current. or 5mA you said?
Early I tried the experiment with pulses, but it's not work... More power required yet.
I only saw 2 videos, in the first there is a cell experiment, and in the secon there is a car "buggy" but without any useable technical information.
Regards:
Ros-Co.
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Ok, I know that's not "electrolisis". The very strong electric force split the molecule.
The problem with the meyer cell is, the ohmic loss. I cannot put any high voltage to water, because the cell's resistance about few hundred ohms. (with tap water, with distilled water it increases to few kiloohms) An 500 ohm cell resistance at 1KV means 2A, it needs 2KW of power. The resonance cannot help to reduce the power consumption, because the resistance of the cell reduces the Q of the oscillating circuit. (formed by the inductor, and cell capacitor)
I think Meyer used insulator coated electrodes, so it generates better resonance effect. In the next experiment I'm going to try it.
If I remember correctly Meyer said 0,5A current. or 5mA you said?
Early I tried the experiment with pulses, but it's not work... More power required yet.
I only saw 2 videos, in the first there is a cell experiment, and in the secon there is a car "buggy" but without any useable technical information.
Regards:
Ros-Co.
at 25 deg C water resistivity is aprox 18.2 MegaOhms-cm
http://www.thorntoninc.com/pdf_files/tech_pubs/ECS_04.pdf
even at 1.5 mm gap between the plates/cylinders it's over 1 MegaOhm
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tao, interesting, thx.
Also in that video clip Meyer seems to be running a car alternator off a motor? It's not too clear if the alternator is providing the power for the rest of his electronics.
I'd like to see taking the produced gas, plumbing it into an off the self gas generator, and if the generator produces enough power to run the electronics for the water "splitting" with some power to spare, then that is it!!!
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Exactly mike,
That would easily show the system working. Cell->Gas Generator->Cell. LOOPED.
Just like JL Naudin did with his bingo fuel, expect the bingo fuel process ATE all the carbon ;). http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/bfr5hpgen.htm
Anyway, Meyer was using the alternator to run his cell demos because that was exactly how his system would look in a car, with its electrical system.
aha!! there it is. Ok, is the power supply that feeds the cell, hooked up to the Honda generator? It's not clear from the pics. If it is, then that's the answer period. Do they have any power output tests done on the generator? Idling at no load, may not be enough, as the cell seems to draw considerble power, from reading the description it's pulling about 30V x 81 Amps
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The power supply first feeds the cell but then the cell power comes right from the generator. You can see this in the video when they switch power sources, after the generator is running.
Only problem with the BingoFuel is that it consumes carbon for its reactions to take place and that is why the generator stops in the video. If you ran a car on the stuff, you would be running your car on water and carbon rods, lol. ;)
In that video from the site/page above,
I see they turn on the power supply before they start the engine. Which is ok because they need to get the cell and gas generation going before they pullstart the engine.
But after that the pesron who turned the power supply on, moves away and I don't see a switch to get a feed back from the engine. Are there any other videos that show the feedback of power from the engine/generator back to the power supply that feeds the cell?
Fully agree on the supply of carbon rods, depending on how fast they are used up it may not be practical. :)
However; it sure demonstrates the proccess.
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mikestocks2006 I NEVER measure more than few kiloohm resistance. It is impossible to keep very clean the water, and ay waste dramatically increases ionic conductivity. But Meyer said, it works with normal tap water and saltwater.
Or the resonance maybe changes the conductivity of the cell? I don't know.
There is a video on NORMAL electrolisis, 12V 10A with normal tap water, and 1,5mm gap. few ohms..
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/horvath/MVI_3287.AVI
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I have an idea for bingofuel. using carbon rods to generate gas is difficult, and not efficient. A fine dust of carbon "emulsion" on the water should be used. And some arcing under the water needed. Maybe it generates more gas, and you don t need carbon rods, only some piece of carbon. I think its less difficult to drive a car.
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mikestocks2006 I NEVER measure more than few kiloohm resistance. It is impossible to keep very clean the water, and ay waste dramatically increases ionic conductivity. But Meyer said, it works with normal tap water and saltwater.
Or the resonance maybe changes the conductivity of the cell? I don't know.
There is a video on NORMAL electrolisis, 12V 10A with normal tap water, and 1,5mm gap. few ohms..
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/horvath/MVI_3287.AVI
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I have an idea for bingofuel. using carbon rods to generate gas is difficult, and not efficient. A fine dust of carbon "emulsion" on the water should be used. And some arcing under the water needed. Maybe it generates more gas, and you don t need carbon rods, only some piece of carbon. I think its less difficult to drive a car.
Yes it may very well be the impurities, that bring the resistance measurements lower. Agree on the higher frequencies and possibly the mentioned in some sources "cascade effect" would effect the resistivity.
Thanks for the numbers and the video ref. Nice work! Did you ever try distilled and/or de-ionized water?
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Hi!
Thanx. :)
In the video there was tap water. With distilled water it doesn'n work. I use clear distilled water (not deionised) from Chemist's. But any waste on electrodes, easily pollute the water.
Regards
Ros-Co.
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mikestocks2006 I NEVER measure more than few kiloohm resistance. It is impossible to keep very clean the water, and ay waste dramatically increases ionic conductivity. But Meyer said, it works with normal tap water and saltwater.
Or the resonance maybe changes the conductivity of the cell? I don't know.
There is a video on NORMAL electrolisis, 12V 10A with normal tap water, and 1,5mm gap. few ohms..
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/horvath/MVI_3287.AVI
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I have an idea for bingofuel. using carbon rods to generate gas is difficult, and not efficient. A fine dust of carbon "emulsion" on the water should be used. And some arcing under the water needed. Maybe it generates more gas, and you don t need carbon rods, only some piece of carbon. I think its less difficult to drive a car.
And it is not a bad idea. Exhaust gasses from car are full of unburnt carbon even in modern cars and modern fuels because at slightly higher rpms fuel doesn't have enough time to burn entirelly. Look what Mr. Pantone does - He retrofits exhaust and "wash" it in watter. There is your fine dust or carbon emulsion. And here is another idea: If we put electrolisers in that water will get H2 O2 and even burnt fuel as CO and CO2 is going to recombine to CH4 or methane + steam ...
I'm going in that direction.
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Yes, I think it was .005 amp and critical because and arc destroys the resonance. In a video I watched He started the circuit around 5KV and adjusted it up to about 22KV and the meters showed (abit later) about 25KV and 0 amps from the angle viewed. I simply paused it and read it. The patent description was tens of thousands of volts so I figured build the circuit for 40KV for experimenting. Without arcing there is no reason to fear explosion, and I don't think this circuit is capible of instant disasociation of the water, so I'm not afraid of instantly generating tons of instant pressure either. Getting enough volume to call it really generating fuel would get me skipping.
The water doesn't give any capacitance except at a perfect frequency then you get a capacitive reactance it's a sort of band pass filter blocking a frequency we want to find. The square waves generate harmonics, will make the job easier. Good luck to all of us.
Tesla's circuits are good to use for this, they are low current. Set your first few tries outside and don't try to contain the gas at first. Some people have claimed disassociation, that is instant conversion of water to gas. I would prefer to find a way to do this because a cup of water could raise the pressure of a large tank of air to over a thousand pounds instantly. That hooked to a turbine or air driven motor would be useful, not good for the road but useful. I don't believe we have anything to fear, I don't think anyone will be able to disassociate using Meyer's princables.
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raburgeson !
can you please send a link to that movie ?
thx
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http://www.lonelantern.org/collection.html
Go though google so it gets cached! Cause it may disappear.
complete look at pulse generator meyers used, capable of 5.45mghtz, just because others were working up to 48.2 khtz might not mean much. letting you know going in we might not know as much as we think. Might take some work to find the frequency. We are hunting for the resonant frequency of the water molecules, not the capacitance.
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Interesting about Stanley Meyer
Not much info on the net besides some obscure mention on s UK news publication.
"Since this concept violates the first law of thermodynamics and this apparatus has never been demonstrated to work or reproduced, it was met with much skepticism and was later found to be a hoax. The purpose of the hoax was likely to attract gullible investors, selling them licensing rights for a "revolutionary" technology. The inventor, Mr. Stanley Meyer (died March 21, 1998), was later successfully sued by some of these disgruntled investors, whom he had sold "dealerships", and convicted for "gross and egregious fraud". "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/msg/8ee0acb80e943e21?hl=endc310437cd1cee1e7&
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Don't sit here and quote disinformers watch the vid. Seeing the water seperate says it all.
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I can't say that it works as i can't say that it doesn't. I watched all his videos. There are supporters, and also people who don't think it's doable.
That's all.
Peace
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What my experimenting on the tesla coils points to is different. I am going to bring up 2 theories because both contribute to what seems to be happening inside the windings. First the one you are most comfortable with, The electromagnetic wave travels up the windings by way of skin effect causing the magnetic flux to align with the wire instead of being perpendicular and when it collapses it cuts through more material and creats a greater indutive kick than it normaly would. 2nd, Tesla view, The DC pulse going up the coil stiffens the aeither inside and outside the windings and mini whirlpools draw aeither through the winding stack creating different charges at the top and bottom of all the windings instantly. It looks like to me that both these happen at the same time and both these theories seem to be working together. And guys don't kill this thread just because I opened my big mouth.
Somewere we are missing a big point the charges that bond in water are strong, It looks like a very good electrolyte for a battery by discription. There most be a simple way to use water this way and everybody is stepping over the solution and we should have blundered into it by now, the hydrogen should be the bi-product. The bond breaking should be releasing a good deal of energy. Am i making any sense here? Used without additives that would corrupt neither the hydrogen or the oxygen.
They didn't give Meyers patents on things that didn't work in fact they fought like hell to subvert his work. Every large energy production base has teams of lawyers, lets say you do produce battery cell that uses water as the electrolyte. These lawyers will view your discription and try to stop you first by proving patent infringment. This stuff is flagged and sent to those people. Failure at that big money steps in and protects it's interests in any way or means it neads to. You need a breakthrough to get a direct view of what is officially going on. Once you get the 10 million you don't own it anymore, complain and lose your family, you will achieve understanding, at that point your patent will be used to stop others from doing it. The powers that be will consider your work purchased and their own.
Me I'm not happy with the forces adding up in a tesla coil, how do you get them to multiply? Just can't figure it out.