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Author Topic: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO  (Read 53018 times)

Offline IronHead

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Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« on: July 28, 2007, 07:17:27 PM »
This is the first Double Helix  system I have seen by "Fordenergy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLLRCuHWVq4

I am working on a much larger version along with complete encapsulation of the outside surface of the helix. Here is the first pic of construction.
At the moment all I am doing is making the helix rigid so that it can be urethane coated.

This is sort of a quicky to see how this will  produce . If all is well I will do a nice accurate version

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Super God

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 02:38:24 AM »
WoW!! That's some impressive production right there!  I wonder if he'll get similar results from plain tap water?  I hope so.  I'm hoping to run my car on straight tap or spring water.  We have a natural spring that feeds our house here so that would be perfect!

Offline keithturtle

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 05:16:52 AM »
I wonder, might that design lend itself to the addition of a coil, within or without, or both, to which one could add a pulsed DC  signal of a kHz or mHz frequency, to enhance the sympathetic vibratory disassociation effect?

Jes a thought, or is that, methinks, why y'all posted this, IronHead?

<grin>

 Yer on to sumthin', ain't ye?

Turtle

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 05:16:52 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2007, 05:31:58 AM »
Yeah . give me a few days  and lets see what happens

Offline keithturtle

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 05:35:26 AM »
Do y'all wind that thang on yer lathe, geared real slow?

I jes got my mouser order.. 4427 mosfet drivers and some 22V 125 A mosfets... ready to slap the snot outa them thar warter mollykuewls!   <insipid grin>

Turtle

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 05:35:26 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 05:52:47 AM »
I shaped it quick like by hand 3"x16"
The epoxy plumbers putty was temp to hold the shape till I got to this point.

If you need to shield an area from GOOP then this Blue Painters tape works very well as the GOOP does not stick to it.


Offline JamesThomas

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2007, 06:57:43 AM »
Yes, WOW! That seems like some excellent production for 8 amps. Interesting how the flat positive and negative surfaces are so distant from each other, yet there seems to be uniform active production on all sides.

How about a smaller double helix down the center of a bigger one, so that these two could fit within a 4" or 5" tube?

Look forward to seeing and learning more on this design.

j

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2007, 06:57:43 AM »
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Offline keithturtle

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2007, 07:10:07 AM »
Good stuff, IronHead... now I know what I can do with all them 1" 26 ga strips I got.

Keep it safe.

Turtle

Offline JamesThomas

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2007, 07:14:18 AM »
@IronHead,

Your s.s. strips look pretty shiny. Did you do any of the recommended crosshatch sanding on them?

j
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 07:12:34 PM by JamesThomas »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2007, 07:14:18 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2007, 07:32:58 AM »
once fitted into the pipe housing I will hone sand internally .

Offline joe dirt

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2007, 07:01:20 PM »
I must have missed this thread yesterday.   Congradulations to fordenergy!
  that is definately a step in the right direction ;D    the production seems to
  be uniform throughout the entire cell, now I,m wondering if one could take
  several cells and link them in parallel or one long cell and coil it up,  perhaps
  mimmick fractal geometry.

Thanks for posting this I.H., best news I,ve seen all week ;)

Dirt

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2007, 07:01:20 PM »
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Offline JamesThomas

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2007, 07:39:30 PM »
I must have missed this thread yesterday.   Congradulations to fordenergy!
  that is definately a step in the right direction ;D    the production seems to
  be uniform throughout the entire cell, now I,m wondering if one could take
  several cells and link them in parallel or one long cell and coil it up,  perhaps
  mimmick fractal geometry.

Thanks for posting this I.H., best news I,ve seen all week ;)

Dirt

Joe, interesting you would mention "fractal geometry". Since coming across information on the improved efficiencies and reductions in size of fractal antennas, I too have wondered how, or if, fractal geometries could be applied to the metal surface structures within HHO electrolysis. My sense is there is something to this.

That said, this spiral helix design (and perhaps the addition of a helix within a helix, within a helix (kinda fractal)) with a little added frequency modulations, may be quite the ticket.

I have made small standard type experimental electrolysis units with plates, and have been looking for the right design for one big enough for a car booster. This may be it! Very exciting this.

I appreciate the way IronHead is a do-it-now-builder. It is extremely helpful to see the progress and lessons learned from someone's first-hand work, while slow-pokes like me get there shit together. Thanks, IronHead!

j

Offline strapped9

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2007, 08:14:08 PM »
Sure is a great find. Waiting for the IronHead pinout on this for the next project.

Offline bastonia

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2007, 08:14:56 PM »
@ ironhead,

Been following your threads ... 2 idea to share:

1) Will turning the Helix vertical help release more bubbles as they rise, possibley spinning into a vortex along the way?

2) Crazy idea ... would sand blasting the stainless steel, make millions of little pits give the bubbles more oppertunities to form?

Thank you for all your experiments!

Offline europeanhillbilly

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Re: Experimenting with Double Helix HHO
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2007, 09:18:18 PM »
Hi everyone and especially IronHead!

I've spent countless hours of reading about electrolysis and especially IHs projects.

I too made a double Helix two days ago. I used two 8mm (~1/3inch) stainless steel straps and (left-)wound them pretty much free-hand around a 14mm copper tube.
To get the two helices fixed, I put the copper tube in again, and rolled it in a rectangle sheet of some kind of flexible yet stiff plastic (had been the protection cover that was placed on my LCD screen at delivery), and put tape on the edge where the plastic overlapped.

The resulting double helix is of about 17mm outer diameter (~2/3inch), 20cm in length, with stainless straps of 8mm width and a spacing between the helices varying between one and 2.5mm. So the thing is way smaller than Fordenergys Helix.

Looks pretty good (sorry, I hope to take some pictures later these days), but when put to the test I wasn't really astonished by the amount of hydrogen produced. Considering the amount of electrode area, it still was pretty good though (I think - well, it's my first electrolysis experience :) ).

My observations in detail were:
1) The thinner the gap between the helices, the more it creates hydroxy. At places where my 'fabrication tolerance' (which is crap!) is at 3mm, only minor amounts are created. I think Fordenergy overcomes this by using a lot of electrolyte - which is not an option for me. I just don't want it ;)

2) Horizontal vs. vertical: As I said, my helices are enclosed in a 'tube'. Placing the double helix vertically releases the gases in a steady stream and the water gets clouded. No or little bubbles at the surface.
Placing it horizontally, the gas would accumulate in the gaps between the helices. When too much gathered at one point, the bubble there jumped to the next gap, taking this gas with it as well, to the next gap etc.. hence you get the gas output as shears, which turn to bubbles on the surface - way better to light up and thus more impressive, but I doubt it's being more efficient.


I came to the conclusion my freehand-wound helices are too unprecise to be used without electrolyte.
So my next step will be to fabricate a pattern on a rod, imagine it as a cast of the inside of a perfect double helix. Two 8mm wide, 1mm deep grooves going round each other with a 1mm wide 'wall' in between.
The idea is to just wrap the stainless straps around the rod, then push a tightly fitting acrylic glass tube over it, then unscrew the rod.
The stainless helices expand a little, so they should nicely press their outside to the inside of the tube.

Hope I've given some ideas... Maybe I can take some pictures of my first try tomorrow, but as I said it's not really satisfying :)

 

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