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Solid States Devices => TPU builders => Topic started by: MarkSnoswell on July 28, 2007, 12:31:29 PM
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I have started this as a separate thread as I feel we all could benifit from a much better understanding of longitudinal (scalar) waves.
OK. This is interesting. These results are preliminary. I will post them publically after I have done more tests ? for now I?ll pass along the results here. I have attached a photograph of the coil used for the tests. When I get a chance to do the test in a more controlled manner I'll post full results. The principal findings reported are so clear that I feel comfortable sharing them now.
It would be good if others did similar basic tests so we can gain a better understanding of longitudinal wave transmission; efficient ways to drive it; how it radiates and couples to receivers etc. I plan to do simillar tests with toroidal configurations as soon as I get a chance.
I plan to do tests with non-netallic transmission lines which I think should work just as well for longitudinal waves but would not transmit transverse waves -- which whould lead to a very significant efficency gain and safer opperation.
I did some simple tests with a long solenoid coil to see if I could identify both transverse and longitudinal wave transmission. Yes.
The other goal was the see if I could efficiently drive the transmission line (coil) with a single closed loop capacitivley coupled. Yes.
I used a long solenoid coil I had lying around. This is a 630mm long coil wound with a single layer of 100 turns of 0.6mm magnet wire. The outside of the coil is sealed with a layer of styrene (common fiberglass resin) based resin. The inside is open ? there is no former. I have several of these coils that were made for tesla coil units -- they are formerless to avoid dielectric losses from formers.
I left the top open circuit. I cut the coil one turn in from the bottom and soldered the input lead so that I had a single turn closed loop (isolated from the mail coil) with which to drive with. The rational for this is threefold.
1. This should be just as efficient (as a direct drive) when driving the longitudinal mode.
2. This minimizes drive current -- all we are driving in a single closed loop of wire.
3. The drive is non inductive as the loop is closed and driven with a voltage from one point.
I drove this with a signal generator with a 0-5V signal. Input impedance was 160 ohms (50 ohm sig gen and 110 ohm externally). All inital tunig was done with square wave.
The remarkable result was that I could easily detect two fundamental resonant modes.
By fundamental I mean two resonant modes with a 1:1 frequency ratio with the drive signal.
The resonant frequencies for the two fundamental frequencies were:
450.3 KHz Q of 46. Signal at top of coil 90 deg behind drive signal.
980.0 KHz Q of 82. Signal at top of coil 90 deg ahead of drive signal.
I probed the voltage drop along the coil with a 10M ohm probe in the vicinity of the coil surface.
As expected the lower resonant frequency corresponded to a quarter wave transverse wave mode.
The higher frequency resonant mode appears to be a half wave mode.
Both resonant modes could be driven with pulse, square and sine waves.
Conclusions:
1. There are two transmission modes that can be easily detected in a long solenoid coil. The lower frequency resonance is the traditional quarter wave resonance -- confirmed by voltave profile and phase. The higher frequency resonance appears to correspond to a half wavelength longitudinal transmission mode -- confirmed by phase.
2. It is possible to capactivley drive the transmission line in both resonance modes with a single ended drive into a single closed loop.
cheers
mark.
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I know many here have already seen this paper, but I add it for those that haven't and for re-review for those that have...
Scalar waves:Theory and Experiments
by:Prof. Dr.-Ing. Konstantin Meyl
You can see an 18 minute demo from him here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714&hl=de
He shows that when he operates his unit at a certain frequency, it is operating in Hertzian mode, and when he uses his other frequency, it is operating in 'Scalar' mode. In the Hertzian mode you can see that his hand can shield, block the transmissions from/to the two units. In the 'Scalar' mode it isn't shieldable, and he claims up to 1000% efficiencies...
The paper goes into more detail than the video.
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I know many here have already seen this paper, but I add it for those that haven't and for re-review for those that have...
Scalar waves:Theory and Experiments
by:Prof. Dr.-Ing. Konstantin Meyl
You can see an 18 minute demo from him here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714&hl=de
He shows that when he operates his unit at a certain frequency, it is operating in Hertzian mode, and when he uses his other frequency, it is operating in 'Scalar' mode. In the Hertzian mode you can see that his hand can shield, block the transmissions from/to the two units. In the 'Scalar' mode it isn't shieldable, and he claims up to 1000% efficiencies...
The paper goes into more detail than the video.
@Tao, Very good. Things are going to change here soon.
I am very impressed with his statement about the human nervous system being a scalar wave transmission system. And the dendrites are spark gaps! Who would have thought.
--giantkiller. Down with TEM, up with LMD.
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Hey Mark and Tao,
Awesome posts! I have never seen that video before but it confirmed some things from the recent experiment in my article that I never bothered to look at. Just like Mark, when I was testing the single, open-ended control coil for the TPU, I also noticed that it had two resonant frequencies, although I didn't think anything of it at the time. I did notice however, that the second resonant peak delivered more power to the collector coil than the first one did!
By the way, I am very interested in the Tesla MT, especially ever since Marco built his model. I have always wanted to build one and play with it but I never figured out how to solve the grounding issue. In Tesla's patents, he always used an earth ground, but if you wanted to have a mobile application, what do you use as a ground for the receiver? I am almost confident that the TPU is simply a Tesla magnifying transmitter and receiver all rolled into one. Once you look at the TPU in this way it is no mystery why it runs with gain if one knows that the MT can have a COP as high as 1000!
God Bless,
Jason O
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Well, since you mentioned Tesla's MT and its relation to the TPU, I figured it was a good a time as any to repost my original post I had made last year about just this subject...
I am not saying that this is how it has to be, just reposting my old post, for reference, for re-viewing, for spurring ideas, etc....................
on: October 02, 2006, 10:46:26 AM
Looking over the Tesla patents again today, especially the patents dealing DIRECTLY with the principles of his Magnifying Transmitter, I looked a bit differently at his one patent that dealt with the WIRED model for his transmitter...Remember that his MT specifically uses radiant energy as it's GAIN MECHANISM...
You might also want to remember a certain confirmation from SM about Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and SM's devices:
"So, I would say that Steven's KICKS have a direct relationship to Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter, its REAL operation.<
from steven
So Lindsay, this guy definitely has the secret. I do not know if he will be able to duplicate power generation, but he does have the secret.
Do you think he knows it?"
So, anyway, after looking over Tesla's one patent I made three images for you all to see what I saw. The first showing Tesla's MT system, and the second image showing Tesla's MT system adopted to SM's devices...........
I am NOT saying that this IS TOTALLY IT, I am mearly suggesting you all look at this and assimulate it in your minds as a potential, especially considering SM's CONFIRMATION to me back in April about Tesla's MT and his TPUs....
Of course, you will no doubt realize that SM's COLLECTOR COIL isn't sprial wound like Tesla's system has it, but niether was Gray's radiant energy tube system, it matters not about the spiral windings, it matters more about there being MUCH COPPER at 90 degrees to the KICK Generating Wires............Having said that, look at the images.............................
Without further adou....
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And here is a VERY IMPORTANT SCIENTIFIC EXPOSE of Tesla's LMD Waves. I highly suggest you guys read the patent many times...
Ok, here is the posts I did last year also, it's on Tesla Waves, what they are, what they aren't, everything the Correas are saying, is being done from many many experiments that they have done, quite cool...
Here are the three posts I did on the VERY important Correa patent back on overunity.com:
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Post 1
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US Patent: US 7,053,576: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7053576.pdf (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7053576.pdf)
Pay close attention to this patent and read carefully.
You can clearly see that Correa is using AVRAMENKO'S PLUG(http://www.rexresearch.com/avramenk/avramenk.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/avramenk/avramenk.htm)) in many of the figures in the patent.
Remember also that when you capture FIELD-FREE/MASSFREE potential from a given setup, that it has no Lenz or counter effects that affect the powering source of the unit that is producing this field-free/massfree potential energy!! This is definition of an OPEN SYSTEM, far from equilibrium! The output and its changing loads have NO ADVERSE EFFECT on the input, that is an OPEN system.
Correa's use of the PAGD(the plasma unit) is definitely the same as Chernetski,
BUT there are MANY OTHER WAYS to make/use this MASSFREE energy then simply in Plasma, I'm basically saying, DON'T get lost in the plasma part of this invention, see through that.
One use can be seen here: http://www.geocities.com/area51/Shadowlands/9654/bearden/poed.html (http://www.geocities.com/area51/Shadowlands/9654/bearden/poed.html)
There are MANY MORE!
Bedini's charging of batteries via massfree potential with no electrons?
Fogal's use of massfree energy for digital information transfer at near infinite speed(many times the speed of light)?
Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and world energy system?
Fluxite Patent ring a bell?
Steven Mark's TPU?
Yes to all!
Also remember, according to the Equinox video that Chernetski was KILLED for this information. Saying he died suddenly in 1992 after talking to Hal Putoff.
Watch the video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8499015375884820274
(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8499015375884820274)
Alexander Frolov writes: Please note that Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge (PAGD) by Correa is similar to Self-generating Discharge by Russian discovery by Alexander Chernetski (you can see his articles in the net, English version also).
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The abstract reads:
"The present invention is concerned with conversion to conventional electrical energy of the variants of massfree energy radiation considered above, referred to for convenience as Tesla waves, massfree thermal radiation and latent massfree radiation. The first variant of such radiation was recognized, generated and at least partially disclosed by Nikola Tesla about a hundred years ago, although his work has been widely misinterpreted and also confused with his work on the transmission of radio waves. The Tesla coil is a convenient generator of such radiation, and is used as such in many of the embodiments of our invention described below, but it should be clearly understood that our invention in its broadest sense is not restricted to the use of such a coil as a source of mass-free radiation and any natural or artificial source may be utilized.
According to the invention, a device for the conversion of massfree radiation (as herein defined) into electrical or kinetic energy comprises a transmitter of massfree electrical radiation having a damped wave component, a receiver of such radiation tuned to resonance with the damped wave frequency of the transmitter, a co-resonant output circuit coupled into and extracting electrical or kinetic energy from the receiver, and at least one of a transmission cavity between the transmitter and the receiver, a full-wave rectifier in the co-resonant output circuit, and an oscillatory pulsed glow discharge device incorporated in the co-resonant output circuit. The output circuit preferably comprises a full wave rectifier presenting a capacitance to the receiver, or an electric motor, preferably a split phase motor, presenting inductance to the receiver. The transmitter and receiver each preferably comprise a Tesla coil and/or an autogenous pulsed abnormal glow discharge device. The transmission cavity is preferably at least partially evacuated, and comprises spaced plates connected respectively to the distal poles of the secondaries of Tesla coils incorporated in the transmitter and receiver respectively, the plates being parallel or concentric. The split-phase motor is preferably an inertially damped AC drag motor."
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7053576.pdf (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7053576.pdf)
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Post 2
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I wrote a post back in early August about the new Correa patent and the ENORMOUS efforts the Correas made in testing and describing the output from Tesla's MT type systems. I mentioned in the post how this patent redeems Chernetski from Russia, a poor man killed in 1992 after demonstrating RADIANT GAIN of any amount, he even said he could eventually power a spaceship from a 10V battery, cause all he NEEDED was the DIELECTRIC FIELD of the battery! This is exactly what Tesla eventually said he could do!
This is SO important, yet NO ONE has responded to the post, I feel this is because many, after reading the Correa patent or due to not knowing Chernetski, just DON'T UNDERSTAND any of it or how it relates to all these Free Energy devices....
The post I am taking about is here: [/b]http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1392.msg10812.html#msg10812
After rereading my post I CAN'T FIGURE OUT why I didn't PUSH harder for everyone to SEE THIS STUFF, LOL...
So, I am gonna make this REALLY EASY, I am posting below a SMALL BUT IMPORTANT PART of the patent that deals with TESLA'S RADIANT ENERGY(KICKS) and I have BOLDED the important findings of the Correa's ACTUAL EXPERIMENTS to test the nature of this Tesla MASSFREE aka Longitudinal aka KICKS aka Radiant energy, etc PHENOMENON...
Take your time, read what I have below, maybe read the patent, read about Tesla and the CHARACTERISTICS the Correas found about Tesla coils...
Here is the text:
It is critical to understand that the implication from this that-aside from local electromagnetic radiation and from thermal radiation associated with the motions of molecules (thermo-mechanical energy), there is at least another form of energy radiation which is everywhere present, even in space absent matter. Undoubtedly, it is that energy that prevents any attainment of absolute zero, for any possible local outpumping of heat is matched by an immediate local conversion of some of this energy into a minimum thermal radiation required by the manifolds of Space and Time. And undoubtedly also this radiation is ubiquitous and not subject to relativistic transformations (i.e. Lorentz invariant). What it is not, is electromagnetic radiation consisting of randomistic phases of transverse waves.
Essentially the first subtype or variant consists of longitudinal massfree waves that deploy electric energy. They could well be called Tesla waves, since Tesla-type transformers can indeed be shown experimentally to radiate massfree electric energy, in the form of longitudinal magnetic and electric waves having properties not reduceable to photon energy or to 'electromagnetic waves', and having speeds of displacement that can be much greater than the limit c for all strictly electromagnetic interactions.
The Tesla coil is a generator of a massfree electric energy flux that it transmits both by conduction through the atmosphere and by conduction through the ground. Tesla thought it did just that, but it has been since regarded instead (because of Maxwell, Hertz and Marconi) as a transmitter of electromagnetic energy. The transmitter operates by a consumption of massbound electric power in the primary, and by induction it generates in the coupled secondary two electric fluxes, one massbound in the coil conductor, and the other massfree in the body of the solenoid. Tesla also proposed and demonstrated a receiver for the massfree energy flux in the form of a second Tesla coil resonant with the first. The receiver coil must be identical and tuned to the transmitter coil; the capacitance of the antenna plate must match that of the transmitter plate; both transmitter and receiver coils must be grounded; and the receiver coil input and output must be unipolar, as if the coil were wired in series.
The generators of massfree energy with which we are concerned provide current pulses associated with a damped wave (DW) oscillation of much higher frequency than the pulse repetition frequency. A particular problem in recovering the massfree energy content of such pulses is provided by the damped wave oscillations.
It is commonly believed that the output of the Tesla coil is ionizing electromagnetic radiation. We have demonstrated that it is not; i.e. that it is neither electromagnetic radiation, nor ionizing electromagnetic radiation. The output of an air cored, sequentially-wound secondary, consists exclusively of electric energy: upon contact with the coil, a massbound AC current can be extracted at the resonant frequency, whilst across a non-sparking gap, massfree AC-like electric wave radiation having the characteristics of longitudinal waves, can be intercepted anywhere in adjacent space. Accordingly, the radiation output from such coils is distinct from electromagnetic radiation.
The basic demonstration that the output of a Tesla coil does not consist of ionizing radiation is that it does not accelerate the spontaneous discharge rate of electroscopes, whether positively or negatively charged. In fact, in its immediate periphery, the coil only accelerates the spontaneous discharge rate of the negatively charged electroscope (i.e. the charge leakage rate), whereas it arrests the discharge of the positively charged electroscope (i.e. the charge seepage rate falls to zero). But this dual effect is not due to any emission of positive ions from the secondary, even if it can positively charge a discharged electroscope brought to its proximity. This charging effect is in fact an artifact, in that metals but not dielectrics are ready to lose their conduction and outer valence band electrons when exposed to the massfree electric radiation of the coil. This is simply demonstrated by the apparatus of FIG. 1, in which the distal terminal of the secondary winding 6 of a Tesla coil having a primary winding 4 driven by a vibrator 2 is connected to the input of a full-wave voltage wave divider formed by diodes 8 & 10 and reservoir capacitors 12 & 14 (the same reference numerals are used for similar parts in subsequent Figures). If the rectifiers employed are nondoped, the coil appears to only charge the divider at the positive capacitance 10, but if doped rectifiers are employed, the coil will be observed to charge both capacitances equally. Whereas positive ionizers can charge either doped or undoped dividers positively, no positive ionizer can charge a doped divider negatively, clearly demonstrating that the Tesla coil does not emit positive ions.
The basic demonstration that the output of a Tesla coil is not nonionizing electromagnetic radiation of high frequency, such as optical radiation, or of lower frequency, such as thermal photons, is also a simple one. Placement of a sensitive wide spectrum photoelectric cell (capable of detecting radiation to the limits of vacuum UV), wired in the traditional closed circuit manner from a battery supply, at any distance short of sparking from the distal terminal of the coil will show in the dark that the light output from the coil is negligible. This rules out optical radiation at high frequency. The demonstration that the sensible heat output from the Tesla coil is also negligible will be addressed below.
Our theory proposed the existence of physical processes whereby massfree electric radiation can be converted into electromagnetic radiation. Such a process is at work whenever massfree electric wave radiation interacts with electrons, such as those that remain in the valence bands of atoms. This massfree electric energy interacts with charge carriers, such as electrons, to confer on them an electrokinetic energy which they shed in the form of light whenever that electrokinetic energy is dissociated from those carriers (e.g. by deceleration, collision or friction processes). Such a process is at work to a negligible extent in the coil itself and its usual terminal capacitance, hence the faint glow that can be seen to issue from it, but it can also be greatly amplified in the form of a corona discharge by connecting a large area plate to the output of the secondary, as Tesla himself did in his own experiments, and thus by increasing the capacitance of the coil system. Now, what is interesting in this process is that, in the absence of virtually any I<2> R losses at the plate, and if the plate thus introduced is bent at the edges so that it has no pointed edges, or if it is in the form of a bowl, or in any other manner that precludes sparking at edges and specially corners, and thus enhances the corona discharge, any electroscope, whether negatively or positively charged, now brought close to the plate will show a tendency to arrest its spontaneous discharge rate. One might say that this is simply the result obtained in a Faraday cage that disperses charge on its outside and insulates electrically its interior, and indeed if an electroscope is placed inside a Faraday cage no amount of Tesla radiation on the outside of that cage, save direct sparking, adversely affects the leakage or seepage rate of the electroscope. In fact, since the effect of such a cage can be shown to be that of, by itself, inducing arrest of either spontaneous electroscopic discharge, this effect simply remains or is magnified when the cage is bathed by Tesla radiation. However, a cage constitutes an electrically isolated environment, whereas a plate with or without curved or bent edges does not. Furthermore, the change observed in the properties of the output radiation from a Tesla coil when certain metal plates or surfaces are directly connected to the distal terminal of the secondary, takes place whilst the capacitance of the coil is increased by the connected plate, and thus the plate is an electrically active element of the circuit-and hence the opposite of an electrically isolated element.
From this viewpoint, the energy released by any Tesla-type coil to its surroundings would be tantamount to a radiative injection of "internal potential energy" which would confer on local gas molecules a weight cancellation (a cancellation of gravitational mass occurring in the absence of any cancellation of inertial mass-a process which the inventors theorize is explained by the neutralisation of elementary gravitons), and the same process would be equally at work for metallic solids but not dielectric solids.
We have also experimentally determined that the efficiency of the system is affected by external weather conditions, higher efficiencies being noted on a fine bright day than under poor weather conditions even though the apparatus is not exposed to such conditions. This may reflect a diminution under poor weather conditions of latent massfree energy that can be taken up by the system.
It should be understood that the above described embodiments are merely exemplary of our invention, and are, with the exception of the embodiments of FIGS. 16-19 designed primarily to verify aspects of the basis of the invention. It should also be understood that in each of these embodiments, the transmitter portion may be omitted if an external or natural source of Tesla waves is available, provided that the receiver is tuned to the massfree radiation mode of the source. For example if solar radiation is available in which the massfree component has not interacted with the earth's atmosphere (as in space applications), the receiver is tuned to the voltage wave of the massfree radiation sourced in the sun, e.g. by using a Tesla coil in the receiver constructed to have an appropriate voltage wave close to the 51.1 kV characteristic of such radiation.
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Post 3
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I see three ways that SM could be producing free energy with his device.....NOTE, all three include 'radiant energy'(massfree waves aka tesla waves, etc)
1. He is using solely the MT operation of Tesla as I outlined in my huge post here: THE POST PRIOR TO THIS ONE
2. In regards to my last post:
Here is a quote from my last post that you MIGHT want to pay attention to: " It should also be understood that in each of these embodiments, the transmitter portion may be omitted if an external or natural source of Tesla waves is available, provided that the receiver is tuned to the massfree radiation mode of the source. For example if solar radiation is available in which the massfree component has not interacted with the earth's atmosphere (as in space applications), the receiver is tuned to the voltage wave of the massfree radiation sourced in the sun, e.g. by using a Tesla coil in the receiver constructed to have an appropriate voltage wave close to the 51.1 kV characteristic of such radiation."
Hence, SM could have the transmitter portion of Tesla's MT removed and SM might be TUNING IN TO A NATURAL SOURCE OF TESLA WAVES(MASSFREE/RADIANT) AND MAKING SURE HIS RECEIVER IS TUNED TO THE MASSFREE RADIATION MODE OF THE EARTH SOURCE..... SM sure talked a lot out tuning....
3. Lastly, the third method of SM's devices working would include BOTH methods above, SM could be transmiting certain MASSFREE waves at certain frequencies through his MT transmitter and this transmission could then INTERACT with A NATURAL SOURCE OF MASSFREE WAVES and then SM merely TUNES IN TO THE INTERACTION FREQUENCY....
Post edited by: tao, at: 2006/11/25 23:30
Post edited by: gn0stik, at: 2006/11/25 23:43
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WOW Tao!
Awesome compilation of posts and references there! I don't have time to digest it all right now (studying for finals) But as soon as thats over with, I can't wait to pour through it all. But just from the brief glance I took at it, I can see so many coronations with things I have seen in passing as well as experiments I have performed myself. Some of that information you mentioned reminds me of some of my early one-wire experiments I did. For those who weren't on the forum way back in October, I thought I would repost the information again.
My first one-wire type experiment was actually discovered purely by accident I came across this interesting effect while playing with my solid-state generator (the device pictured in my avatar) and as I was probing it to see where the power was coming from, I started taking things off of the circuit. Eventually, I removed the generator itself and all that was left was this rectifier circuit I made with germanium diodes and some LEDs. The circuit had some strange behavior that I later documented in a series of videos. Here is a diagram of the circuit I made:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=712.0;attach=2248;image)
I posted some videos of this on the forum in Quicktime format but I finally converted them to DivX avi format and have reposted them here to this post.
Another one-wire circuit I built was using a transformer and I was able to extract even more power from this circuit. Here's another chalkboard drawing of the diagram:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=712.0;attach=2729;image)
If you would be interested in seeing more details about these two experiments, here is a link to a post I made a while back where I reference all the other posts on the topic. One of them also includes scope shots of the output from the LED circuit:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.msg14839.html#msg14839
Another thing I wanted to share was a post I made over on CTGLabs a while back about my High Voltage one-wire experiments. Here is a reposting of it:
I have some interesting observations to share with you concerning jumping wires. Lately, I have been doing some experiments with a Wimhurst electrostatic machine and a homemade spark gap that I made. I explained to everyone earlier that I was able to generate a small bit of power to run some LED?s using an odd one-wire diode circuit; and also a more advanced version of the circuit using a simple 1:1 transformer with only one wire connected to the primary side. (For those who haven?t seen my posts about this, I made a post referencing my relevant posts on it here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.msg14839/topicseen.html#msg14839).
So I thought I would try some experiments using higher voltage input onto the transformer to see if that would affect anything. I created a cheap spark gap using a large pill jar, a couple of carriage bolts I bought from Home Depot and some nuts and washers to fix them to the ends of the jar. I then wound a large coil of wire around the container to pick up the radial discharges from the spark. I connected the screw ends from the spark gap to the electrodes on the Wimhurst Machine to power the spark gap (I hand cranked it). Now, before I go into the experiments that I tried, I should tell you what inspired me to mess with this in the first place. It all started with me playing around with the Wimhurst machine. I was just cranking it over to see how big I could get the sparks to go. Then I got this idea to try and *measure* the voltage that was building up in the two leyden jars that charged the machine. I *thought* I could accomplish this because there appeared to be some posts on the base of the board for connecting jumper cables to it. So I grabed my digital Multimeter, set it on the 1000 volts range, and connected the leads to the pins on the base board. As I expected, I saw 1000+ volt spikes appear on the meter as the sparks jumped the gap, but what I found out next surprised me. I disconnected the meter from the base completely and had it sitting on the table about a foot or two away from the generator and as I cranked it over again, I was still getting the same 1000+ volt spikes appearing on the screen. Now, I got curious and thought I would see how much ?current? was showing up across the disconnected probe leads so I set it on the 20A range and cranked away some more. Now I was seeing 14-18+ amp spikes on the screen! Now my first suspicion was that the meter was getting really bugged up from the discharges from the spark gap and giving me erroneous readings. So then I grabbed an analog meter with the same range capability and tried the same experiment with it. This time nothing happened.
So that is when I thought I would build a spark gap (inspired by some Grey Tube stuff I was checking out at the time) and wind a coil around it to pick up the discharges more directly. So I constructed the spark gap and connected it up like I described earlier. Then I took the leads coming from the coil and connected them to the volt meter. I was thinking that the inductance of the could would hopefully smooth out the voltage spikes so I could get a good ?average? voltage reading that the slow analog meter could register. This time I did register a voltage that was about 20-30V. The magnitude of course was dependent on how fast I cranked over the Wimhurst machine and the distance between the electrodes in my cheapo spark gap.
But! I wasn?t done yet! I decided to try the one wire approach as well. So, I took one wire from the coil on the spark gap, ran that to the + lead of an LED I had laying around, and then connected the other leg of the LED to one side of a capacitor I had laying around (6uF, 600V AC cap). This time, when I cranked the machine, I could see my LED faintly glowing as the sparks discharged! (Not as brightly as with my one-wire Diode circuit though).
Next, I completely disconnected my homemade spark gap from the Wimhurst machine and connected the + leg of the LED directly to one of the spark gap electrodes using a long alligator clip cable. I then connected the other leg to the same capacitor as before. This time when I cranked over the machine, the LED lit up even brighter! (still kinda sorta dim but it was a bit better).
Now, for my last experiment, I connected up my 1:1 transformer to the same one wire coming from the electrode of the Wimhurst machine. To the secondary coil, I connected a bridge rectifier so I could monitor the DC voltage and amperage output if there was any. But I was using thin alagator clamp wires to make the connections from the transformer to the rectifier. When I cranked over the Wimhurst machine I noticed that the thin lead wires twitched and jerked violently as the sparks jumped across the gap (which was probably about 2-3 inches wide). I also noted that I got a shock from the thin wires if I did not discharge the caps from the Wimhurst machine before touching the wires. This confused me because they were not directly connected to the machine (only through the transformer) and at that point, I didn?t have any caps attached to the secondary side to store any charge with.
I did some other miscellaneous experiments with this setup but I tried so many variations that I can barely remember what happened. But one thing is for sure. I was definitely noticing some of the effects that Tesla mentioned with the spark discharges (minus the tingling sensations). This effect did have an interesting way of bugging up my meters too. When I was trying to measure the voltage with the analog meters I had, they sometimes would read a voltage and then the needle would get stuck that way and wouldn?t return to normal for a few hours. So I really wasn?t able to get any objective current readout either using that method. I did connect my scope a number of times, which showed 300+ V spikes across the DC part of the rectifier. But I don?t know what the amperage was (probably not much).
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Here is some additional information that may contribute to our longitudinal wave research. I copied this post from a user on OU.com named Mike (don't recall his screen name). It's about transmission lines:
The easy way to consider transmission line theory is to study waves at the
shore/ harbour where there is a vertical wall at approx. right angles to the
waves; water behaves in exactly the same 'elastic way' that inductors and
capacitors do!
The easiest way is to consider a 'step function' (short pulse) or wave, you
apply a voltage to the first inductor, Capacitor is an instantaneous short,
and inductor an instantaneous open circuit, current begins to build and the
capacitor begins to charge, a point is reached when the capacitor volts
equals the supply volts, BUT, the current has now reached the maximum it
can, but is still flowing so the voltage climbs higher, it is higher than
the input now, and would climb to twice the input before it stops (simple
resonance), but, as soon as the voltage appears across the first capacitor
it begins to flow through the second inductors and charges the second
capacitor, so no exccess voltage developed, the 'wave travels down the (now
called 'artificial transmission line' at a speed related to the capacitance
and inductance; the line will have a 'characteristic impedance' which is
related to the transit time of the wave.
So far, all is in order; then the last capacitor begins to charge, and it
cannot 'pass the can' any further, so it's voltage actually reaches twice
the supply voltage, which then travels back down the line superimposed on
the original supply volts, and after the transit time ( I suspect the
reciprocal of the resonant frequency 170us) then you will see double the
voltage at the input (maybe more, deeper theory)
Return to the sea shore, watch the incoming wave being fully reflected (if
not shallow water causes it to break) at some point out to sea, you will see
this reflected wave pass right through the next incoming without damage,
but, with a constant time between the waves, the peak WILL ALWAYS BE IN THE
SAME PLACE;and twice the amplitude! It will also be observed that there will
also be an addition of troughs as well as peaks!
Take a quick break, and imagine the wall to be tangental to the wave, there
will be a pattern developed which will move along the wall, two walls to
reflect back and forth, and inject the wave at exactly the right angle......
In a sentence you have a 'hitchhikers guide' to all transmission line and
waveguide RF power transmission techniques & devices!
Fascinating things, don't want the reflection, want power to be used at
other end, load with a resistor or device that is the same value as the
characteristic impedance, now you understand 75 OHM TV feeder and aerial,
has to be matched, wrong cable, reduced or no signal (BTW it doesn't absorb
the power, 75 OHM is non dissipative it's reactive, and never keeps the
power; subject of course to 'losses' which always occur)
More strange effects, make the open circuit termination a quarter wave
length, and the reflection is a short circuit, used to couple waveguides,
with no losses at the connections
Make it a half wave, and voltage is double and no load; Used in radar
circuits, Early warning radar I worked on had just this, open circuit delay
of 5us, 1,000 volts fed in, 2,000 back, lasting precisely 5us in a very
sharp and clean pulse, short circuit this into a transformer and draw 2500
amps for exactly this time, transform into 75,000 volts and give it to a
magnetron (as in microwave cooker) and you have the Marconi Type 80, 5
megawatt early warning radar transmitter of 1960's vintage.
Back to the article, depending on the exact frequency match, you can have
any number of standing waves and impedances, and a mismatch can cause quite
phenomenal voltages to build up, may be in phase, antiphase, or travelling!
This sort of device is often applied to aerials to match them precisely to a
given frequency transmitter, or transmitter to any aerial which may not be
an 'ideal' length called 'matcing stubs.' If any of you have a VHF RT on
your boat and have a slim wire aerial, you can see the matching coil and
assy at the base!
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Hi Jason,
I watched your videos, very good.
Is this not just an antenna effect where the RF energy is radiating through your piece of metal or piece of wire?
The result being you get a potential across the LEDs.
If you have say a 1 Meg resistor in series with the function generator will you see the same results?
You still have a pulse but very little current flow to light the LEDs.
If a bird lands (not that they would) on a TV transmitter antenna, how long does it take before it burst into flames ;)
Regards
Rob
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Also, I want to share with you some videos from my very first TPU build. When I ran these tests, I was able to light up a single LED from the collector coil, which was extremely frequency sensitive. I talk about all the details of the connections in the video but I did make a couple of boo-boos. For one, I say that the vinyl tubing is 3/4" and it is actually 3/8" I may have said some other stuff but is was like 3:30AM in the morning when I got it running so I was a bit loopy, lol. I am currently uploading the videos to YouTube since I keep getting timeout errors on here. I'll post the links to them as soon as they are finished.
I also attached a scope shot of the input waveform going into the bifilar control coils. Notice that the sine wave is actually a harmonic sine wave! So I actually had the effect of three frequencies input with only one! (I was actually inputing square waves but when they got close to resonance, the harmonic sine wave was what resulted).
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi Jason,
I watched your videos, very good.
Is this not just an antenna effect where the RF energy is radiating through your piece of metal or piece of wire?
The result being you get a potential across the LEDs.
If you have say a 1 Meg resistor in series with the function generator will you see the same results?
You still have a pulse but very little current flow to light the LEDs.
If a bird lands (not that they would) on a TV transmitter antenna, how long does it take before it burst into flames ;)
Regards
Rob
Hi Rob,
That very well could be the case. My interpretation is that the piece of metal that is added to the circuit acts as a reservoir of charge that can be shuttled around in the Diode loop by the changing potential from the function generator. I can't say that it was overunity or anything because I had no way to take input measurements on the function generator. The effect was what I found most fascinating.
God Bless,
Jason O
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OK everyone,
Here are the links to the videos of the TPU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6NlO-fVr_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3x4Jy7DcwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYtzwwRD8yA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZowgyGOVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putV7OPxLD4
Also, notice in the videos that I mention the circuit works better when the coil becomes charged! This is in line with what Bob has been telling us about the output bias! It's all there guys!
God Bless,
Jason O
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Highly recommend the viewing of Konstantine Meyl's "Power Engineering Scalar Field Theory - Faraday vs. Maxwell and Demonstration of Longitudinal Wave Transmission (Konstantin Meyl) (2003)"...
He really goes into everything, nicely....
That 18 minute clip was from this same video, but the 1hr30mins before those 18 minutes, that is where the model is fully described, quite awesome.
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@ Tao -- do you have link for that video? ... Konstantine Meyl's "Power Engineering Scalar Field Theory - Faraday vs. Maxwell and Demonstration of Longitudinal Wave Transmission (Konstantin Meyl) (2003)".
OK... I am realt running out of time. I'll be in the US for most of next month and I wanted to provide an update before I get too busy.
Attached are some pictures of various coils I have lying around. I have another whole collection of very interesting coils but their not for public display just yet. -- see , I do a resonable amount of experimental work ;)
I have a heap of counterwound coils -- easy to make when you know how... you make the two coils seperatly, push them together and spot glue with superglue. The trick is that two counterwound coils are not topologically linked... something no one seems to have noticed before! (you should see the array of truly stupid methods the CTHA patents have for winding counterwound coils!) ...the reason I point this out is there are some key tests I want to do and someone else may get a chance long before I will...
Fact: I'ts easy to detect longitudinal wave resonance mosd in a long, single layer solenoid coil.
Question 1: Is it easy to detect a longitudinal wave resonsnce mode in a narrow open wound solenoid?
Hypothesis: A counterwound coil will cancel out the magnetic field and elimenate the normal quater wave transverse wave resonance mode. However it will not elimenate the longitudinal wave resonsnce mode.
Experiment: Make a long counterwound coil. Keep the two coils electrically seperate. Drive one component coil at a time (open ended) and identify the quater wave transverse and the half wave longitudinal wave resnonsce modes. Now drive both component coils at once -- this should elimenate the transverse wave resonsnce but leave the longitudinal wave resonance.
Anyone up for testing this out? I will be doing this when I get back in September. I will also test with a ferrite core to try and slow down the wave to bring the resonsnce down into a more managable frequency range.
Hypothesis: As the primary transmission component of longitudinal waves is a dielectric wave parallel to the transmission direction then a coil of cunducting material may be replaced by a single solid dielectric transmission line. I plan to test teflon, carbon and ferrite. (I have already done ferrite tests -- with a possitive results although there is great complications due to the magnetoelestic and villari effects). I also plan to test carbon fiber coils (I have a big roll of carbon fiber tow sitting around which helps).
and now for the pics...
cheers
mark.
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I would like this say this and with out disput, nothing , bad about Bob but .. the the phic world and Dr Snoswel we got a real problem, ,, the alinement of the iron busmuthe in the toriiod is not moulueculrcsrd alined, we need to frezze this to 301 to 322 below zero to aline the structure, the acustily affected streinght is the bias the out put. otherwis we will get the lighting effects due to the collapps of the b feild in witch the LMD mag feilf take over the toaltal effect , are you going to be in the states long i need to caht with yo on the 25 dr na 15 ditomic effets dammm i benn up to long get in touch with DR snoswell ,,,,, i'm lost Mike  PS in construction of magnetics oand molecurler reconstruction I'm no genious , I know how to make lighting ! but power eludes me , it has always been a product of the by product of the model but never a product to use.
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I was just reviewing the longitudinal wave work of Stanislav & Konstantin AVRAMENKO
http://www.rexresearch.com/avramenk/avramenk.htm
and of Prof. Dr-lng. Konstantin Meyl
http://www.meyl.eu/go/index.php?dir=10_Home&page=1&sublevel=0
While this work in undisputable and of fantastic potential both systems require a single wire or a good ground connection between transmitter and reciever. This is a big problem if you want to power a portable device like a cell phone... or if you want to develope a communications network based on longitudinal waves... I think I have a very simple solution to this :)
This will be very easy and cheap to test. As part of my ongoing research into the basics I plan to test simple new longitudinal wave transmitters and recievers when I get back (late August). In addition to being a fundamental part of TPU like devices there are many opportunities for lonngitudinal waves in the transmission of power and in telecommunications. If anyone is interested in participating in tests in this area just let me know.
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I found this nice description at a link off of one of Mark's aforementioned sites.
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IN Teslas single wire power tranmission the LMD coils were passive to the collector if i can find the diagram I'll post it the coils were not grounded , just left open but the wire off the coil was distributed along the leingth of the wire (collector or the transmission line ) only the antenna was grounded between the tank capicotor to ground. no other ground. coils were run static once started and power removed (spark gap to the cap and back fed to the coils , when entergized the power was cut off due to the static feild generated.
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In my replication attempt of a larger scale Tesla Radiant Energy Collector, a large spiral coil at the top of a 30' mast, was connected to the hot side of a primary tank coil via an adjustable spark gap. The cold side of the primary tank coil was connected to an identical spiral coil buried in the ground around the base of the supporting PVC mast. A ground rod was connected to the outside point of the ground spiral.
One thing to be sure, winding longitudinal energy coils with stranded wire seemed to put the kabosh on those coils being able to carry longitudinal currents well. I made that mistake with the larger guage wires first used in the intermediary bifilar coils. They just would not tune well at all.
Bob
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Hi All,
This issue of the receiver being grounded has always bugged me. I have always wanted to build a Tesla wireless power transmitter just to play with it. I was especially inspired by the one that Marco posted on the forum a while back. I'm very curious to see what would happen if you were to have more than one receiver pulling power from the transmitter. Would the transmitter 'perceive' the load from the receivers? If not, then one could conceivably have power multiplication simply by adding more receivers for the same source. Or, you could put the transmitter and the receiver together as one and use feedback to increase the gain of the system.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Hi All,
This issue of the receiver being grounded has always bugged me. I have always wanted to build a Tesla wireless power transmitter just to play with it. I was especially inspired by the one that Marco posted on the forum a while back. I'm very curious to see what would happen if you were to have more than one receiver pulling power from the transmitter. Would the transmitter 'perceive' the load from the receivers? If not, then one could conceivably have power multiplication simply by adding more receivers for the same source. Or, you could put the transmitter and the receiver together as one and use feedback to increase the gain of the system.
God Bless,
Jason O
I have always thought about this also Jason, exactly what you wrote here. What would happen ;).
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Here is a cool link, making today's news, using Tesla's Longitudinal waves in a wireless transfer of electricity and an artistic approach:
Hmm... forteantimes wants membership...
Go to www.coasttocoastam.com scroll down to "New Tesla-inspired light bulb". Click it, and you can get there without a membership
http://forteantimes.com/blogs/editorial-blogs/news/940653/new-teslainspired-light-bulb.thtml
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http://montalk.net/notes/tesla-wireless-technology
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm
"Divergence of the vector potential" is something that Stephan Marinov was emphatic about and he built his MAGVID device to produced this effect - using a RMF in combination with a polodial magnetic field (Z-axis of toroid).
How very quaint indeed...
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http://montalk.net/notes/tesla-wireless-technology
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm
"Divergence of the vector potential" is something that Stephan Marinov was emphatic about and he built his MAGVID device to produced this effect - using a RMF in combination with a polodial magnetic field (Z-axis of toroid).
How very quaint indeed...
That first link is amazing...
Jason, looks like he might have answered your question about multiple receivers:
"In case you missed it, there is a critical implication here. The transmitter does not lose energy by generating longitudinal waves, yet the receiver responds to those waves and generates a measurable current. This means that if the transmitter uses a million watts, and the receiver outputs the same, ten more receivers can each output a million watts without putting additional load on the transmitter. Where does the extra energy come from?
Well, there is something very special about an oscillating divergence in the vector potential, namely that it creates an oscillating time field that extracts energy from the flow of time itself. If you have ever wanted to know the secrets of free energy, this is definitely one of them. Under ideal conditions, the transmitter sends an information signal that nudges the receiver into extracting free energy from the time stream. Some would call it extracting the zero point energy, same thing if viewed from the quantum mechanical perspective instead of general relativistic. Due to the first equation showing the relation between divergence and charge density, charges vibrating in a compressive / expansive manner automatically extract free energy that adds to the amplitude of their oscillation.
That the transmitter and receiver electrically oscillate at resonance is how one can dial specifically into the other, and that their mode of oscillation involves radial electron compression makes the entire process assisted by free energy."
Looks like this is what Steven Mark was talking about when he mentioned have multiple electron flows in one wire at the same time:
"Tesla?s system employed was a collective compression and expansion of electrons. That follows from the coupling between divergent vector potentials and electron density. It is unique because a wire carrying such a ?current? will have both ends pulling or expelling electrons at the same time."
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WOW Tao! Thanks Grumpy for the great link!!!
I am about to take a road trip today so I printed out the links and will be reading them on the way down. Sooo It looks like the Tesla MT really is the secret to the TPU after all? I only have one question left now. How could we build a transmitter and reciever that don't need to be grounded??? If I could figure this out, I'd be working on one of these right now!
The only plausible thing I can think of is to ground the receiver to a point on the receiver coil where there is a node... Kinda like CB antennas can be grounded to themselves even though their not actually grounded. Not sure if this could apply in this case though. What do you all think? Have you seen any documents by Tesla or other people that address this? I remember Steven talking about "finding the circuit potential" maybe this is what he was referring to?
God Bless,
Jason O
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@ Jason
I can probably answer that for you. In leu of ground, you can reference against a conductive mass, such as the body of an automobile. The smaller the mass you reference against, the higher the frequency needs to to be to to get a given reference amount, and energy. It's all related to potential dipoles. In our case, the earth is but one very large half of a dipole. The earth makes a very good reference due to the electric and magnetic fields, but due to coupling, it is not the only reference possible.
Tesla used the auto body of the Pierce Arrow as his initial ground reference. In doing so, all he did was put 2 capacitors - or dipoles, in series on his MT design. The capacitance - or diipole - between the antenna on the car and the car body, and the capacitance - or dipole - between the car body and earth. The amount of energy density possible is greatly reduced, but it is still possible to do.
Bob
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Bob,
if Earth is one-half of a dipole, what is the other half?
Regards, Earl
@ Jason
[snip]
It's all related to potential dipoles. In our case, the earth is but one very large half of a dipole. The earth makes a very good reference due to the electric and magnetic fields, but due to coupling, it is not the only reference possible.
[snip]
Bob
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Bob,
if Earth is one-half of a dipole, what is the other half?
Regards, Earl
@ Jason
[snip]
It's all related to potential dipoles. In our case, the earth is but one very large half of a dipole. The earth makes a very good reference due to the electric and magnetic fields, but due to coupling, it is not the only reference possible.
[snip]
Bob
One of the nearest high energy dipoles to us, would be that of the earth/ionospheric cavity. There are many dipoles around us, some with great amounts of energy, as in the earth/moon dipole, sun/earth dipole, the dipoles between planets, ect. To collect energy, we only have to get coupling in between any 2 points of a dipole with a great potential energy differential.
Bob
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Eureka moment! ...
These are raw insights and I don't have access to illustrate them at present... but I wanted to record the ideas here immediately.
Terminology:
Longitudinal Electric wave == LE
Longitudinal Magnetic wave == LM
Transverse Electro Magnetic wave == TEM
Realization 1.
An element (wire - does not need to be metallic) running down the central axis of a coil carrying a LE signal will be induced to generate a LM signal. (can think of as a spin rotation/flip current)
Realization 2.
The above relationship is symetric. Take two rings in a Hopf linkage. Equal LE and LM signals will travel in the two rings. (90 deg spin relationship between LM and LE can be encoded with Hopf linkage)
Realization 3.
If you combine LE and LM waves in a single element you get "ordinary" TEM current. (spin rotation + spin compression current = bulk TEM current)
Result from the above == LE and LM "currents" are easier to work with and convert -- as Tesla put it "more natural" than TEM waves.
Consequence 1.
By driving both a toroidal coil and central loop together you can split a TM current into LE and LM currents. You can also do the converse.
Consequence 2.
Devices such as BB TPU configuration will have LM current induced in the iron powder toroidal core. These LM currents will couple LE currents in the primary and secondaries.
Question still being considered:
how to devise devices that use Lm and LE energy flows directly without the requirment to convert back to TEM current flow to drive present devices -- devices like lights, motors, heaters, coolers, reactionless thrusters.
The above concepts are striped to their minimum. Careful tuning, topology and material selections are all considerations in demonstrating and using the effects while supressing unwanted (wastefull) TEM currents.
Damn -- I hope that makes sense to some of you. It's all so clear and simple really. It's just *very* different from everything classical electrical engineering and physics has taught that it's difficult to comprehend initially.
Of course this all needs to be tested experimentally to validate the ideas. I'm sure (hope) that some of you get this and can already think of the first experiments to do -- they are very straight forward. When I can illustrate things I will post the experiments -- which will be adding to my list to do as soon as I get back to Australia.
Cheers
Mark.
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Sorry for bringing this old thread back up, but I was intrigued by your last post, Mark. ;)
Consequence 1.
By driving both a toroidal coil and central loop together you can split a TM current into LE and LM currents. You can also do the converse.
Would you mind elaborating a bit here? Right now, I am imagining a toroidal coil (or several toroidal coil segments) wound around a loop coil in the 90 degree orientation (think "collector coil"), and driving both in parallel, but I don't think this is correct. Where would I be able to tap off pure LM or pure LE energy? Wrap another toroidal coil around the entire thing to tap off LE energy?
Consequence 2.
Devices such as BB TPU configuration will have LM current induced in the iron powder toroidal core. These LM currents will couple LE currents in the primary and secondaries.
So the powdered iron core is acting as a shorted LM conducting loop. This makes perfect sense as to why the core is so important!
Realization 3.
If you combine LE and LM waves in a single element you get "ordinary" TEM current. (spin rotation + spin compression current = bulk TEM current)
Well, it would seem that we can convert back to TEM relatively easily. Maybe this is why there are at least two independent rings on the TPU; one to convert to LMD and thereby tap excess energy, and one to convert back to TEM to power standard electrical devices.
I think I understand; I just want to make sure that I am not on the wrong track here. :)
Thanks!
Eldarion
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@Eldarion
You got it... if I am right.
Consequence 1.
By driving both a toroidal coil and central loop together you can split a TM current into LE and LM currents. You can also do the converse.
Would you mind elaborating a bit here? Right now, I am imagining a toroidal coil (or several toroidal coil segments) wound around a loop coil in the 90 degree orientation (think "collector coil"), and driving both in parallel, but I don't think this is correct. Where would I be able to tap off pure LM or pure LE energy? Wrap another toroidal coil around the entire thing to tap off LE energy?
Yes -- Parallel collector and controller coils... but it's not that easy -- they would have to be tuned to both resonate at the same frequency although in different modes.
The excess energy arises in circuit -- you need to bleed it off. Bleeding of the excess could be done directly or via other coupled coils -- all pretty standard but with totally different types of waves than we are used to.
There is a (new) energy trapping mechanism I have realized could trap high frequency (ZPE) energy in systems that pump feromagnetic materials with longitudinal waves. I need to test the theory.
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I was trying to figure out why all of this is so familiar, and I remembered this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070405014712/http://amasci.com/freenrg/a-vect2.html
I wrote Bill about this idea not more than half a year ago.
He didn't test it.
I didn't test it.
I think I will test it, seeing as these ideas are lining up perfectly. I assume that I can use capacitors to tune the loop coil into longitudinal resonance?
Oh, and how do I tell if a coil is in longitudinal resonance instead of transverse resonance? The Faraday cage and pickup coil? Is another name for longitudinal resonance magnetic resonance? (The reason that I ask that question is the Faraday cage will only block the E-field of
the TEM near field region.)
Something that might be useful sometime is a list of which TEM concepts can be applied to LMD circuits--such as "pulling" the resonant frequency with a capacitor. I'd be happy to help compile that information...we need to learn how to engineer LMD circuits as you mentioned earlier.
I'll let you know how this turns out!
Eldarion
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Hi Eldarion,
Yep -- http://web.archive.org/web/20070405014712/http://amasci.com/freenrg/a-vect2.html I know it well -- I think it is along the right lines and very much worth checking out... actually Bill is closer than he knows ;)
As for this http://web.archive.org/web/20031217212954/alexfrolov.narod.ru/spiral.htm I've done it. In fact I was showing this to a friend of mine just this past weekend. I discovered the effect myself some time ago in a counterwound bifilar pancake coil -- you can couple energy from a regular coil to a Counterwound Bifilar Pancake (CBP) coil very well. However is doesnt work in reverse -- so when using the regular coil as a primary and CBP as a secondary you get a transformer with no inductance on the output and no back emf coupling. hmm... perhaps I should put up a video of this. It's a real brain teaser as the phase of the secondary is not altered by fliping the coil over but is inverted when you put the secondary on the other end of the primary -- this is the oposite behaviour to a "normal" secondary. It's really just a field gradient sensitive secondary but the lack of back emf is the interesting part... you get the equivelant of a energy diode transformer where the energy can only go one way through it.
cheers
mark
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Hi Mark,
Going back to the phone conversation the other day about using a straight ferrite rod with one input coil and one output coil that can be slid along the rod to pick up the high nodes of the LM wave.
I will get the rod out of my box of bits and test this idea out.
So if you now try the same experiment on a torroidal core the LM wave will travel around the ring and meet the other wave coming the other way.
Will they reflect or just pass by each other?
Would it be correct to say that there is a lot more scope for a rapid build up of energy if its not absorbed by something.
If you drill a 1mm hole into the perimeter of the core and insert a 0.8mm copper wire as a probe you expect to see voltage between the probe and what?
I tried to find a supplier for that 3d7622 programmable pulse generator and could not find one.
In fact a lot of the chips seem very difficult to locate. Let me know how much they are and where you can get them from.
Regards
Rob
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Mark,
would you please be so kind to draw and render your experiment with the counterwound bifilar pancake coil + regular coil,
showing details of bifilar connections and all winding senses.
Thanks, Earl
Hi Eldarion,
Yep -- http://web.archive.org/web/20070405014712/http://amasci.com/freenrg/a-vect2.html I know it well -- I think it is along the right lines and very much worth checking out... actually Bill is closer than he knows ;)
As for this http://web.archive.org/web/20031217212954/alexfrolov.narod.ru/spiral.htm I've done it. In fact I was showing this to a friend of mine just this past weekend. I discovered the effect myself some time ago in a counterwound bifilar pancake coil -- you can couple energy from a regular coil to a Counterwound Bifilar Pancake (CBP) coil very well. However is doesnt work in reverse -- so when using the regular coil as a primary and CBP as a secondary you get a transformer with no inductance on the output and no back emf coupling. hmm... perhaps I should put up a video of this. It's a real brain teaser as the phase of the secondary is not altered by fliping the coil over but is inverted when you put the secondary on the other end of the primary -- this is the oposite behaviour to a "normal" secondary. It's really just a field gradient sensitive secondary but the lack of back emf is the interesting part... you get the equivelant of a energy diode transformer where the energy can only go one way through it. cheers, Mark
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The reason for posting this is to show just how many resonances there are and how high the Q is in a toroidal ferrite core. *NONE* of this would be detectable without a DC bias (magnetic field in the torroid), a coil mounting that allows mechanical resonance and a square wave drive into a non-inductive drive coil... if you don?t know what you are looking for it?s very unlikely that you will ever see anything!
Look at how high the Q?s are!! .. This is a quick test and I expect that I could dramatically improve those Q values with good design. The point is that if you drive a current at one of the resonances and modulate it at another then you can get a multiplier of the Q?s ? and it will be very easy to get into extremely high energy modulation modes with significant non-linear behaviour.
I don?t know if this will yield overunity ? but It?s an area that is completely unexplored and shares a lot of characteristics with Bob Boyces and SM TPU devices.
I?ll take photographs and write a up a clearer explanation when I have done more tests ? for now I thought that it is good to give people an idea of just how significant and complicated the resonance modes can be in toroidal cores.
Please keep this confidential to this group.
Thursday 13th September 2007.
Preliminary experiment to identify magnetoacoustic resonance modes in a ferrite toroidal core.
Mark Snoswell, mark@ballisticmedia.net
These results are with a Ferroxcube torroidal core Type T140/106/25-3C90 (140 mm OD, 105 mm ID, 25mm high).
The core has three coils that are *not* wound tightly on the core. They are loose to allow the core to mechanically resonante.
The three coils are:
DC Bias. 28 turns.
Drive coil: Symmetric Counter-wound ? 5 turns in each direction (non inductive).
Probe Coil: 3 turns.
The following resonance modes were measured with:
4 amp DC bias current applied to the DC bias coil.
200 mill amp p-p signal driving the drive coil.
All observed resonances are dependent on the DC bias current being present. The amplitude of the resonances was directly proportional to the DC bias. There was a significant frequency dependence on the bias.
All resonances were measured with a square wave drive. Resonances could not be clearly observed with sine wave drive.
The following table denotes the number of nodes around the core at a particular resonance: resonance frequency: and Q.
The first 10 resonances (7th not observed) are for standing longitudinal magnetoacoustic waves around the toroidal circumference. The other (high frequency and one acoustic) resonant modes have not been matched with known resonant modes although the acoustic modes appears to be the fundamental flexural mode.
Nodes Hz Q
1 14,567.4 387
2 20,277.5 711
3 31,631.4 2228
4 40,286.2 1857
~5 44,296.8 2260
~6 57,068.5 --
~7 Not observed. --
~8 80,925.6 2636
~10 90,406.8 2659
2/3rd harmonic 1 64,305.8 3994
2/3rd harmonic 1 75,739.6 3030
2 nodes ? 192,913.8 4019
1 node? 194,599.8 3089
227,234.8
*Acoustic 8,010.8 ~9
*no detectable signal in the probe coil but a very significant acoustic singnal.
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By establishing the magnetic field at one frequency and generating (modulating it) the magnetoacoustic standing waves with an harmonic-offset I will be able to make the standing wave pattern rotate at the offset beat frequency. This then matches the performance of the TPU closely -- a rotating static field generated only by intermodulation of two base signals. The rotating static field has remarkably low impediance (I know that from previous tests -- impedance ~= the DC resistance of the wire) and high amplitude -- this should certainly drive a significant current in a secondary coil. With the right feedback and control to keep it stable this feels remarkably close to a working design that is engineered to deliver the characteristics of the TPU -- hmm. I don't know if anyone is following me here, but this is quite remarkable... of course I have to engineer it and test it now, but with a working principal and solid repeatable resonance data to work with the guessing has been removed.
sigh -- I wont get a chance to do more experiments untill next week -- we have the big Pedal Prix race this weekend http://www.pedalprix.com.au/news.php
cheers
mark.
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Hi Mark,
Some good results there, how did you measure the Q value?
Were you able to move your probe coil to find the nodes?
I suppose to prove that the magna-accoustic wave is shifting you could place a dish containing some small plastic beads or water onto the core and look for the patterns while you change the frequency.
I received my sample AD9959 chips today - 2 off.
Next is to order up the AD9959 eval board.
I also have the programmable pulse chip now, so I can produce any pulse from 10ns to 250ns in 1ns steps, this coupled to the DDS 20 will give me good narrow pulses at any frequency up to 20Mhz.
I want to carry out your tests above using BB core.
Regards
Rob
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HI Rob,
Where did you order the programmable pulse width chips from?
God Bless,
Jason O
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I want to carry out your tests above using BB core.
Excellent -- as I will be focusing on the ferroxcube core for a while.
I will do a prelimenary test on the Micrometals core to see if I can see any simillar resonances at all -- it's a much softer core with a large poloidal/toroidal ratio which will make it much harder to see the resoances... the effects will still be there but blured out (although the lower Q's could possible make the resoances easier to see?? )... wont know untill I do a test.
Quote from IM from Rob on the pulse timer chip:
"DS1023S-100+ I got from Farnell in One in the UK, not quite as good as the one you mentioned but OK.
: Digikey sell them cheaper
: Digikey have a minimum qty of 45 at 8.19USD each
: 368 USD for 45, a bit expensive"
The DS1023s is the 8 bit programmable pulse width chip. We really want the 22 bit probrammable width chips.
Suggestion: perhaps we can do a bulk purchace if most of us want these chips. I would be prepared to buy up to 10 of them at USD 8.19 each.
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Hi Mark,
Count me in on that one. I was just talking to Hank and derek about these. They would be the perfect solution but I can't afford to pay $40+ per chip if I only buy three of them. Where did you look to get the price you mentioned?
God Bless,
Jason O
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@Rob
Measuring Q ...
Measure the peak amplitude,pA at resonance F.
Measure the high and low frequencies where the amplitude is exactly pA/2
The difference in the half height frequencies = dF
Q = F/dF
WIth Q's in the 1000's you need very accurate equipment. I am borrowing a HP 33120, 15 Mhz arbituary waveform generator for these test.
Peak amplitudes are measured with the absolute voltage cursor on my Tektronics TAS 475 scope.
After determining the resonant frequency, F, and peak amplitude, pA, I set the amplitude cursor to pA/2 and find the low and high frequencies with exactly pA/2 peak amplitude.
With the equipment I have the resonant frequencies are accurate to +-0.05% and the amplitude to +-1%
The amplitude error leads to increacing errors when determining high Q's. With Q's in the 1000's my error is probably +-20% or so.
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Hi Jason,
These are SOIC by the way, so as long as people realise these are fairly small devices (1.5mm pin pitch) but not too bad.
Cheapest price is off the Maxim shop site:
https://shop.maxim-ic.com/storefront/viewpriceavailable.do
Then search for:
DS1023S-100+
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1023-DS1023S.pdf
Price breaks:
1-24 $ 9.87
25-99 $ 8.11
100-499 $ 7.36
500-999 $ 7.36
1000+ $ 7.22
So I'm suggesting we get someone in the States to order them and post them out to the various countries as samples to avoid the import duties.
I can take 10 off.
It may be that someone can work out a way using OR/AND gates to use just one for 3 or 4 coils.
Regards
Rob
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Wonder what they would do if I walked in their front door and wanted to buy a few? About 3 miles from them. ;D
thaelin
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Hi Thaelin,
Give them a call and see if you can collect as it will save on courier charges.
I have emailed datadelay.com about a quote for the 3D7622 device: 10ns to 4ms in 1ns steps .
http://www.datadelay.com/datasheets/3d7622.pdf
I will contact Maxim UK and see what price they can offer but I doubt it will beat the price of about 8 USD each.
The 3D7622 is the ultimate device, so I would prefer this over the maxim device, even if its twice the price.
[Edit 17thSept'07]
Hmm, I was right, they are more than twice the price:
Price breaks:
1 -49 24.14 GBP each
50 -99 17.77 GBP each
100+ 15.35 GBP each
Prices include VAT
12.50 GBP postage
Price was from: http://uk.nuhorizons.com/
Minimum order is 50 GBP so I would need to order 3 off.
Maybe Datadelay can give a better price.
Regards
Rob
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Those prices sure make microcontrollers look like the best deal. The Atmel microcontroller chips I use are under $5 each. No need for settable or programmable delay chips when the microcontroller can be programmed directly for timing needs.
If you need a programmable delay and pulse width to use with an existing signal source, you can always use a simple little 8 pin package microcontroller running simple code that can take input pulses and deliver timed output pulses. You can even add some up/down buttons for adjusting delay and duration of the output pulses for tweaking operation either way from the "default" settings that you enter.
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Microcontrollers may work but I have not yet seen anyone use one.
It's a pitty there is no such thing as a microcontroller with a built in AD9959, although I suppose you could put the two onto a tiny board and say there you have it. ;)
I have another price quote on the 3D7622 from Datadelay devices themselves:
10 pieces are $32.93 each
Lead-time is 1 week to ship.
Postage is dependant on the service used
$25.00 for EMS which is 3 day delivery
Other wise standard mail would be $5.00
So 4 of these with a AD9959, large LCD display and you have a comprehensive function generator.
Just need to write a program for the uCtrl.
Regards
Rob
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Today I decided to start my longitudinal wave tests on torroidal coils with wire cores... After 16 hours of tuning I think I have a very simple configuration that has a power gain of 12 (twelve).
Apart from apparently being overunity it's a configuration that by all classical rules should not be putting any power out at all.
I have a very experienced electrical engineer coming over tomorrow to check everything... but I have just done a full calibration on my oscilloscope, tried a replacement set of 4 new probes, rebuilt the test twice (it took 4 hours to tune it the second time), done a complete brute force integration of the waves for accurate power calculation -- and I still get significantly more power out than in :)
I'll photograph and document after independent check of my setup. But for those of you who cant wait ... It's a very simple setup -- a toroidal coil and a two loop coil core (secondary). The torroidal coil is a continuous loop driven from a single point. About 330 turns of 0.12mm magnet wire with a poloidal ID of 14mm and a torroidal ID of 175mm -- it's a precision coil made on the lathe as a straight coil and then formed into torroid.
It was the first test of this type on my list to do. It was looking for longitudinal wave induction of current in a perpendicular secondary -- a configuration for which the Lenz law predicts a null result.
It's driven at a fundamental resonance of 7.478 Mhz.
The two loop secondary coil appears to have an impedance of about 33 ohms. I am driving a 33 ohm load for these tests. Tuning involves getting the parallel capacitance (from single drive point to ground and at capacitive couple from signal drive to 90 deg around torroid) exactly right to minimize input current. Residual current is almost pure third harmonic. Input voltage is fundamental sinewave. Output looks like clean sinewave.
With a sine wave drive I get 12X OU. With a square wave I get 1.5X. The poor performance with the square wave is due to high residual 3rd harmonic. This is expected as even with the sine wave input the only residual drive signal is third harmonic ? the square wave is rich in the 3rd harmonic and therefore not as efficient for this configuration.
Tuning to 0.02% is required to minimize the input power -- which implies a very high Q.
Power levels and voltages are resonanble for measurment
Input = 3.4V x 2ma 3rd harmonic current, 1st harmonic voltage
Output = 1.38V x 41ma out, 1st harmonic into a 33ohm resistive load.
That?s it for now. Please keep this confidential to this private group at present. I need to confirm the validity of the result and then do a closed loop test before considering what to do next.
Cheers
Mark.
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Hi Mark,
Your information on your latest experiment, leaves me speachless. :o We look forward to the EE's confirmation of your results, as well as photographs and documentation if all confirms well.
Bob said that there are hundreds of way to "tap" into this power, I am just amazed that you did so, if confirmed, so quickly! ;D
Heartfelt congratulations!
Bruce
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Hi Mark,
This looks very promising and very easy to build, 60cm long spring coil of 1.2mm wire wound on a 14mm former with a couple of turns threaded inside for the seconary after removing from former and bent into a toroidal shape.
Solder the spring ends together to form one continuous loop and apply a sine wave input the the joint.
The tuning looks very tight and I wonder if a lot of frequencies can be explored by carefully going through the whole range from several Hz to 20MHz, could take a very long time.
Its a pity the frequencies and not in the region of the two that SM mentioned: 35.705KHz and 245KHz.
This could be the start of something really big...
Regards
Rob
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Way to go Mark. Looks like you found that homopolar-like generating action that I spoke of. Keep up the great research!
Bob
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Hi Mark,
well done.
How do you exactly measure your input and output powers ?
Just the voltages on a scope and the current on a shunt( in case of the input ) ?
Can you also scale it up by providing more input power and do you also get
then more output power, if you raise the input voltage ?
It is usually pretty hard to measure at around 6 MilliWatts power levels,
so some errors could get come into the measurements easily,
so please try to scale up to bigger power levels and measure again.
Looking forward to see a few pics of your setup.
Many thanks.
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Excellent. I can't wait for the EE's analysis, and some pics and more docs. Looks like your making some great progress here.
Rich
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@all
Still furiously testing here. I have made and tested 4 separate devices now. I have included some pictures. My EE friend has taken one device for testing -- the plan is to make a small stand alone CMOS driver and drive it from a 9V battery -- we can then measure the DC power input from the battery and compare that to recitfied and smoothed DC output. We may also look at measuring coloumetric output. ... but the real goal is to close the loop and remove the power source completly.
So -- I am still cautious about the validity of the measurments. However this is what I have found so far...
1. Driving a closed (continuous loop) toroidal coil at a single point will induce a significant potential/current in a pickup coil (core coil == SM's "collector") threaded through the toroidal coil. This is in aparent violation of Lenz Law which predicts a null result in this configuration.
2. The potential generated across the core coil exhibits a resonance at a different frequency from that of the toroidal coil in open ended transmission line mode.
3. The resonant frequency of the output coil and the voltage generated are a function of the length of the core coil.
4. The current and voltage in the toroidal core and core coils exhibits a lot of 3rd harmonic component under many conditions.
5. The output can be feed back to reduce the input drive requirments.
I have done the following prelimenary tests:
Closed and tight wound toroidal coils. Close wound coils appear to work best.
1 - 14 loops in the core coil. 6 apears to work best.
Twisted pair core coil. Inconclusive if twisted pairs offer overall benifit. They exhibit different resonant frequencies compared to non-twisted pair core coils with the same number of overall turns.
Open and closed core coils. SIgnificant voltage (compared to closed loops) and current can be drawn from open ended core coils.
The best results to date have been with the 04 version shown below. Driving at 1.905 MHz with a 5V sine wave -- the output was 156V sine (open ended) with an apparent impedance of 39K. Peak voltage and output power across the 39K load were 66V and 78 mW. With feedback, capacitative compensation on the input and slight tuning it was possible to reduce the input current to below 2.5mA which gave a input power calculation of just 14mW.
At MHz frequencies and with reactive loads it is extreemly dificult to take accurate power measurments. While every care has been taken in the measurments and many tests repeated there is still some doubt. What is evident however is that this appears to be a novel phenomenon that in contradiction to Lenz Law.
Next tests:
A. I will have to thread a 8 turn core coil and then progressivly withdrad a bit at a time -- cutting the core coil to tune it for optimum voltage.
B. Once I have determined the optimum core coil length I will try twice the length with a center tap -- single point.
C. I will take the best of A & B and then apply the voltage generated back to the toroidal coil -- using a phase shifting network if neccessary.
D. If C works and runs stand alone (without external input power) then I will try adding secondary coils over the toroidal coil.
Final comment:
I am pleased that I have found what appears to be a novel phenomenon -- my EE friend agreed. Weather it is overunity or not I feel that this has revealed a fundamental principal: With a completly symetrical single point drive into a closed loop toroidal coil you can only generate symetrical standing wave resonances around the toroidal circumference. There is no net angular electrodynamic momentum. However you can generate a significant net angular electrodynamic momentum in a coil placed within the toroidal coil. Without any tuning or feedback I can reliably measure efficencies of up to 50%. Lenz law predicts no current under these circumstances...
This does fit with my ideas that electrons are spinors. I have attached another image that shows how I believe *all* current flows around a loop -- with a 180 deg twist... although it's only in a superconducting loop that it's a pure spiral wave. Here is an explanation if anyone one is interested http://marksnoswell.cgsociety.org/gallery/329928/
So I would predict that you would be able to induce a voltage in a core coil inside a toroidal coil... by a spin coupling mechanism... as spin *is* potential this is an alternate expression of the longitudinal wave phenomenon as described by Konstantine Meyl. It is also in keeping with Tesla's original observations of radiant energy... it's all the same thing but with different language and visual constructs...
..that's all a long winded way of saying I did expect a positive result -- but you never know untill you try it.
back to experimenting :)
Mark.
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Oh -- and before anyone says "all you have is a very lossy toroidal transofrmer driving a resonant output circuit" ... I thought of that and it's not whats happening... Yes, if the core coil has *any* spiral component then it will look like a normal secondary (to a very small degree) and have a small current induced -- and that could build up in a resonant output circuit. However I have already thought of that and tested to see if the output is affected by load capicitance -- and it's not. The overall efficency (even when not tuned) is also quite resonable (up to 50%) which seems unresonably high for a very low coupling transformer into varying loads.
It does appear that the whole device has an output resonance that is determined by the core coil length -- but not by the load (including reactivve load) on the output. So if it is an output resonance driven by a very low coupling transformer then it's would have to be a transmission line resonance in the output coil -- and the frequencies are much too low for that with the length coils I have.
Please -- if anyone can think of any other objections or classical explanations let me know. I find it usefull to report on progress here as it helps me think things through. It is possible that this could all have a classical explanation and no overunity component -- that's one of the reasons I want to keep this in this private area for now.
hm -- someone asked about power measurments -- concurrent measurment of voltage and current. Things get trickier with phase differences between current and voltage (reactive power) and with non-sinusoidal (3rd harmonic contamination in this case) waves. I have done everything I can to measure and factor in all of these -- and be conservative at the same time.
Hmmm -- what else ... the transmission line resonance of the open toroidal coil driven single ended is 1.7 Mhz with 1X scope probe and 3.2 Mhz with 10X scope probe... Lots of other results but nothing else that is relevant or conclusive for now.
cheers
Mark.
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Very nice Mark! Not the configuration I had pictured, but the results sure speak volumes. I am impressed with your attention to detail.
Bob
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yup...
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Mark, your coils are so pretty I sometimes have a hard time telling if it's a model or not, since your models are also very nice, and very realistic. This is getting very exciting, I must admit.
Grumpy peristaltic induction... very interesting indeed! I had never heard of that before. You never cease to amaze. Sorry I'm not contributing something more meaningful at this time.. I'm kind of beside myself reading all of this.
Rich
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yup...
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Ok ... things are getting complicated with resoances and harmonics all over the place.
I have gone back to the bare toroidal coil to characterize everything very caerfully. THis is what I have found:
Tests on just the torroidal coil alone -- no core coils; nothing even close; just a single drive through a 1K resistor with a minimal length lead into the torroidal coil; no direct scope connections -- just holding probes in close proximity to minimize capacitive loading...
Results:
Single ended drive of open coil: Coil straight or in a loop (but not closed) I get just one resonance -- it is the anticipated 1/4 wave resonance. It's at aproximatly 6 MHz. Every indicator (voltage rise along the coil, phase angles) sows that this is the pure 1/4 wave harmonic with no spurious signals.
Single drive point into the close torroidal coil: Only one resonance present at the second harmonic 42 MHz. Probing voltage and phase around the torroidal circumference confirms resonance as second harmonic.
So -- I now know that this toroidal coil has a fundamental transmission length of 21Mhz. Open it supports the 1/4 wave harmonic at 6Mhz and closed it supports the 2nd harmonic at 42Mhz...
I will now do tests on the core coil alone -- characterizing any resonances I can see. However it is already clear that the system of two coils - toroidal and core coil - exhibits complex and novel resoannaces and that there is a tendancy to resonante in pairs of frequencies in the ratio of 1:3. ... why is that?
@Bob
Yes -- it's all in the details! Not only do you have to know exactly what all of the classical behaviours are but you have to be very diligent and caerfull in examining the anomalies. I am determined to get to the bottom of this!
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Hello Mark and everyone else,
Great job on the through analysis here Mark. I've still got my face buried in data sheets and circuit diagrams for my "ultimate" DDS controller but I just thought I'd come out from under my rock to congratulate you on your continued efforts. I'm very happy to see that someone else is trying to understand the fundamental behavior of this energy. The data and results that you produce will be invaluable to us as we work on more complex systems such as Bob's coil. As soon as I get my control circuit wrapped up and ready to go, I'll be joining you at the bench to characterize this stuff.
@Grumpy,
Great information there! I'm surprised that the reference mentions the moving potentials like squeezing the hose. I think this is another very fundamental line of research that we need to throughly investigate... what can we exactly do to electrons in a wire with a fast changing E-field? in particular, a biased, changing E-field? I can see that Mark's experiments are going to shed a lot of light on this one.
God Bless,
Jason O
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Keep it up Mark. Your cutting quite a path.
You can probably induce current in conductors placed between two of those closed coils, one positive, other grounded. Similar to experiments of Elihu Thompson and Ludec. Will not be as profound as squeezing the core.
Just to see what happens, run a few loops of wire around the outside of the toroid, add load, and check.
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I'm about to head off for a 10 days holliday with the family --
Latest tests indicate an unusual distributed transmission line resonance is responsable to the primary resoannce I have been looking at -- think of the toroidal coil as the sheath of a coaxial cable and the core coil as the central conductor. There is a significant capacitance between the sheath and the core conductor. In my case the capacitance between toroidal coil and core is 145 pF... and a 6 turn core coil has an inductance of 16 uH (the toroidal inductance is 87 uH). It seems that when you drive the potential of the toroidal coil you induce a resonance in the core coil - but you cant use lumped analysis -- the lumped LC resonance of the core coil and capacitance to the toroidal coil is predicted to be 3.3 Mhz -- but it's measured as 5.65 mHz with a minor peak at twice that frequency.
So -- I may have a clue as to some of the resonance modes now -- there are the standing waves in the toroidal coil as a transmission line and there is a resonance between the toroidal coil and core inductor as a distributed LC resonator. What is still unexplained is why the odd harmonics are so predominant almost everywhere -- particularly the 3rd harmonic. I have been discussing this with someone else with very considerable practical experience (including run-away OU devices) -- they see the same 3rd harmonic predominance in these sorts of devices.
... so finally I decided to do a quick test with a flat pancake coil laid on a conducting plane -- driving the conducting plane with a signal which is then capacitivly coupled to the entire pancake coil... low and behold it resonates - same (actually better) with a counterwound bifilar pancake coil?!?... and the bloody 3rd harmonic resoances are everywhere present ;) ...
Now I am going to have to do some tests with a linear distributed tranmission line and see if I can stimulate the same sorts of resonances and harmonics -- bugger - that requires a more expensive build - a long coil in the precise center of a copper tube.
I know that 3 phase power systems are full of odd harmonic resonances -- particularly 3x harmonics... but what are these harmonics doing in toroidal and pancake coil systems driven by a single pure sine wave???? -- is this some clue that these systems are coupling to or generating rotating 3 phase (3 dimentional - spinor?) fields? ... all things to ponder while I am away.
cheers
mark.
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I don't see anything "odd" in this yet.
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A short excerpt on 'squeezing the hose' ala Thomson...
Great find on the 'Peristaltic Induction' by Thomson, Grumpy..........
An interesting look backwards in time:
On Peristaltic Induction of Electric Currents in Submarine Telegraph Wires
By Professor W THOMSON M.A. F.R.S.
Recent examinations of the propagation of electricity through wires in subaqueous and subterranean telegraphic cables, have led to the observation of phenomena of induced electric currents, which are essentially different from the phenomena (discovered by Faraday many years ago) of what has hitherto been called electro-dynamic or electro-magnetic induction, but which, for the future, it will be convenient to designate exclusively by the term electro-magnetic. The new phenomena present a very perfect analogy with the mutual influences of a number of elastic tubes bound together laterally throughout their lengths, and surrounded and filled with a liquid which is forced through one or more of them, while the others are left with their ends open or closed. The hydrostatic pressure applied to force the liquid through any of the tubes will cause them to swell, and to press against the others, which will thus, by peristaltic action, compel the liquid contained in them to move in different parts of them in one direction or the other. A long solid cylinder of India-rubber, bored symmetrically in four, six, or more circular passages parallel to its length, will correspond to an ordinary telegraphic cable containing the same number of copper wires, separated from one another only by gutta percha; and the hydraulic motion will follow rigorously the same laws as the electrical conduction, and will be expressed by identical language in mathematics, provided the lateral dimensions of the bores are so small, in comparison with their lengths, or the viscosity of the fluid so great, that the motions are not sensibly affected by inertia, and are consequently dependent altogether on hydrostatic pressure and fluid friction. Hence the author considers himself justified in calling the kind of electric action now alluded to, peristaltic induction, to distinguish it from the electro-magnetic kind of electro-dynamic induction. The mathematical treatment of the problem of mutual peristaltic induction is contained in the paper brought before the Section; but the author confined himself in the meeting to mentioning some of the results. Among others, he mentioned, as being of practical importance, that the experiments which have been made on the transmission of currents backwards and forwards by the different wires of a multiple cable, do not indicate correctly the degree of retardation that is to be expected when signals are to be transmitted through the same amount of wire laid out in a cable of the full length. It follows, that expectations as to the working of a submarine telegraph between Britain and America, founded on such experiments, may prove fallacious; and to avoid the chance of prodigious losses in such an undertaking, the author suggested that the working of the Varna and Balaklava wire should be examined. He remarked that a part of the theory communicated by himself to the Royal Society last May, and published in the Proceedings, shows that a wire of six times the length of the Varna and Balaklava wire, if of the same lateral dimensions, would give thirty-six times the retardation, and thirty-six times the slowness of action. If the distinctness of utterance and rapidity of action practicable with the Varna and Balaklava wire are only such as to be not inconvenient, it would be necessary to have a wire of six times the diameter; or better, thirty-six wires of the same dimensions; or a larger number of still smaller wires twisted together, under a gutta percha covering, to give tolerably convenient action by a submarine cable of six times the length. The theory shows how, from careful observations on such a wire as that between Varna and Balaklava, an exact estimate of the lateral dimensions required for greater distances, or sufficient for smaller distances, may be made. Immense economy may be practised in attending to these indications of theory in all submarine cables constructed in future for short distances; and the non failure of great undertakings can alone be ensured by using them in a preliminary estimate.
Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=pOo4AAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA21&lpg=RA1-PA21&source=web&ots=y-nJf1a_3O&sig=TBEND1ORWgBehE3lxvWh73aRgpM#PRA1-PA21,M1
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And Mark,
Keep up the awesome work. Your scientific method precedes you, congrats on your current findings...
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yup...
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yup...
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http://www.miklagaard.com/longitudinal-electric-waves
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When I started the heterodyning on the pvc coil, on the scope I saw wave forms then when the phase cancellation harmonic hit the signal got squeezed like an am signal. As I proved with the bucket-o-vibes and IS proved the heterodyne output can be made to spin at any speed and in either direction. Could this process be the canon balls and be that simple of an explanation?
--giantkiller.
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When I started the heterodyning on the pvc coil, on the scope I saw wave forms then when the phase cancellation harmonic hit the signal got squeezed like an am signal. As I proved with the bucket-o-vibes and IS proved the heterodyne output can be made to spin at any speed and in either direction. Could this process be the canon balls and be that simple of an explanation?
Anything is possible. Personally I doubt it. I have neat devices that generate rotating and spinning fields from 10's KHz up to 10's MHz. The rotating it's self is not difficult - or enough. Pulsing, timing, potentials, static and parametric modulation/pumping are all implicated. I am currently setting up to pulse at higher potentials - 100 - 660V.
cheers
mark.
PS. 1:4:11 would be my recommendation -- explanation later ;)
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Hello All,
I came across some VERY interesting information from the guys over on the Magnet motor forum who are trying to explain the anomalous acceleration in the MPMM Magnet motor. This interesting quote from one guy really got my attention when thinking about it with regards to the TPU:
A test to check doppler compression would be a dual probe (or at least dual data log/time) gauss reading in both the leading and trailing positions relative to the stator. The precession location should show a higher density. If this is not the case, then we should look to an outside source such as a nearby EM generator running at a harmonic of those frequencies.
I believe it to be Doppler compression coupled with inertia. Although you may not be the first to demonstrate it you certainly do deserve accolades :wink: for sharing your discovery and helping to get the concept recognition.
Another guy commented about "Doppler compression in rotating fields" although I couldn't seem to track down the whole post, but this really got me thinking about what Steven Mark meant when he said,
"Has anyone ever done any research on what happens when we
create a magnetic field and revolve it faster and faster.
What changes and at what speed or frequency of the pulsed field
do things suddenly change?"
Anyone have any thoughts on this? The first thing I will do once I get my controller up and running is to create a rotating field and make it go faster and faster just to see what happens.... If I use a large diameter coils, It would even be possible to revolve the field at relativistic speeds.... Does anyone have any ideas about what might happen once the field gets close to the speed of light??
I thought I found out what would happen when I posted about this:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg32902.html#msg32902
It was a simulator for showing the Doppler effect. Would what is shown in the simulator happen in real life in the TPU if we make the field go fast enough?
God Bless,
Jason O
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MAGVID had a beam of light out the top so would recommend you not stand over it. Of course MAGVID was biased, so don't be under it either. I do not know if it literally burned anything, but just to be safe...fire extenguisher might be nice.
EDIT: MAGVID beam was at like 30 MHz. Inventor is dead, so little is known for sure.