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Author Topic: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory  (Read 2161599 times)

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2007, 10:22:27 PM »

Hello Lawrence,

I think your idea occured also to Milkovic, see his patent page on it:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent3.jpg

Have you considered a similar arrangement in your mind?  If you have some ideas for futher improvements, would you advise?

Here are some of his further ideas connected to pendulum and lever:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/PatentiEng.html

Regards
Gyula

Dear Gyula,

The http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/PatentiEng.html is blank. 

The http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Patenti/Patent3.jpg is interesting.  Since I cannot read Russian, I can only comment on the diagram.

From the diagram, he is using the magnetic repulsion set up as a spring for both the Lever and the Pendulum.  He might have thought of increasing the effective gravitational constant G.  However, the diagram did not show it.

Furthermore, the Lee-Tseung theory predicts the best Pulse force should be small but frequent. (The best angle for the best (hori energy/vert energy) should be around 0.5 degrees.)  In his diagram, he uses very big swing angle for his pendulum.

Please note that the increasing effective gravitational constant G technique is applicable to all gravity devices.  (I shall write about the advantage and application of decreasing G in a different post.)

I believe the best path is to give the information to him.  He will shine no matter whether he already knows it or not.  This is the intention of the Forum - share and benefit the World.

Lawrence Tseung
Patent Information from Milkovic Leads Out a chance to Interact and benefit the World.

gyulasun

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2007, 11:04:19 PM »
Dear Lawrence,

The link works for me, though I have to wait a few seconds too for the middle part column to appear, it does not come promptly.  If you have no success, try going to his home page http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/indexEng.htm  and move your mouse over the Inventions icon in the vertical column on the left side and a new small window should appear that should include the Patent link, among others. Also, the Content column on the left includes his Contact page.

Thanks for the comments.  If I get it right, there is a compromise in increasing the gravitational constant: one has to trade for the weight of the mass on the pendulum to the swinging angle, does not it?  (a bigger mass cannot swing readily quickly like a smaller one, especially not within a small angle of under 1 degree)  Am I right or missing something?

Thanks,
Gyula



ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2007, 02:14:13 AM »
Dear Lawrence,

The home page http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/indexEng.htm works.  Also, the Content column on the left includes his Contact page.

Thanks for the comments.  If I get it right, there is a compromise in increasing the gravitational constant: one has to trade for the weight of the mass on the pendulum to the swinging angle, does not it?  (a bigger mass cannot swing readily quickly like a smaller one, especially not within a small angle of under 1 degree)  Am I right or missing something?

Thanks,
Gyula


Dear Gyula,

Thank you for the new link.  It works.  I am particularly interested in his Flying Saucer.  I believe he might be working on the same concept of reduced gravitational constant G.  I shall talk about that in another post.

There is no compromise as stated in your post.  We can still use the concept of the potential energy = mgh.  We can increase the potential energy by increasing any one of the three terms (m = mass, g = gravitational constant, h = height).  Previously, scientist do not know how to change g easily.  The Forest Yuen experiment showed that the magnetic pendulum technique can change g - both increasing it or decreasing it.

Scienitists know how to simulate increased g via centripetal forces - such as training for astronauts in rotating devices.  We now know the cutting off magnetic attraction on rotating ball can produce the anti-gravity effects. That is the principle of the Flying Saucer in a nutshell.

The ideal horizontal pulse should add 0.5 degrees to a pendulum.  However, we do not need to provide the ideal pulse.  Energy can still be added at a lower efficiency (2 parts horizontal pulse energy Leads Out less than 1 part of gravitational energy.) 

Many in the West still do not believe that CoE has been misapplied for venturies.  They still do not believe in the demonstrated EBM machine, the Wang Shum Ho Device etc.  Almost all of them are "followers" and not "pioneers".

I shall quote one conversation with a top English Professor in the Energy field.  "I spent all my life increasing the fuel cell efficiency by a few percent.  You came along and demonstrated free, cheap and constant energy.  How could I face my thousands of students?  I just could not tell them I taught them the wrong things for the past thirty years.  I could not possibly say that my hundreds of esteemed papers were useless.  I understand your theory totally.  It is simple and brilliant.  But I cannot support it!"

Lawrence Tseung
Milkovic Flying Saucer Leads Out the application of reduced gravitational constant.  This may be the reason of Government Suppression of this entire technology.

tinu

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2007, 12:14:43 PM »
Tests are for graduates. I?m a little bit beyond that. Anyway, if you want testing, let?s play. Firstly, please correct the presentation (http://www.energyfromair.com/beijing/Taiwan2a.files/frame.htm). Slides 5-8 are full (and I mean FULL) of elementary mistakes, even for high-school level!

There is no such thing as a Force of 10kg. 10kg is a mass, right?  This mistake repeatedly appears in slide 5 and 6. Then in slide 7 you (or the author, whoever he/she might be) say(s) again that:
?If Mg=60Kg, F=10 Kg, then
Angle a = 9.48 degrees
Hori Energy/Vert Energy = 2.014?

Wow! Mg is a force but the unit of 60 on the right side is mass (kg). Then F is the consecrated notation for a force but on the right side is also a mass. If you want to be intelligible, at least say F=10Kgf. The numerical results for angle ?a? happens to be correct just because g disappears both from the nominator and denominator but man, this reveals anything you want but not scientific rigor.

So, if you want me to further guess through your riddle, then angle ?a? for a pendulum mass of 80kg and a horizontal force of 10kg*g is 7.125 degrees. This rationale is having a physical meaning in equilibrium only! (Static setup/no movement). However, the pendulum that is starting from the vertical will not stop at this angle. So, the force equality does not hold and you should know it. Then why applying this simple equality? This is another (and quite a huge) mistake.

Then, on slide 7 you say that:
?Hori Energy = F x Lsin(a)?
Nope. Not correct at all. (In fact this is the biggest mistake by far /it is actually inexcusable under any circumstances/ and it is telling me that the author did not pass his/her physics class with a good rank.) The equation above is not the horizontal energy, as you/the author wrongly assume(s), but the work done by force F. And if the system is not under other external forces (except gravity), this equals the Total Energy of the pendulum, not its Hori Energy! Horizontal Energy is m/2 x sqr (v-hori), where v-hori is the horizontal speed. Again, the pendulum does not stop at that angle. It will continue its motion due to the kinetic energy having it stored when accelerated under the force F.

The same error as explained above is made in:
?Vert Energy = Mg x (L(1-cos(a))?
This equation is also wrong because of the accelerating type of motion. If you want to compute the vertical energy you have to use differential equations.

According to the above, knowing the angle ?a? (7.125 degrees), mass M (80kg at your wish) and force F (10 kgf) one easily can compute the ratio Hori Energy/ Vert Energy, as you asked me to do ?for testing?. Is the test solved? That easily?!! Nope. I will not do it, because both equations are incorrect and so is the ratio between them. At this point, it just happens then that your test to me becomes my test to you. :))) Please solve it correctly, using the right equations and then we shall talk again. Deal?

I hope that the students are not being taught this way because it would be very bad for them.
Anyway, following the errors in slides 5-7, slide 8 makes absolutely no-sense whatsoever.

So, I?m not offended. Hopefully so are you.

But even beyond the obvious errors in using basic equations of classical mechanics as pointed above, more understable and relevant to the members here is the second paragraph of my first post, which remained uncommented by you. I?ll bring it again under your scrutiny: Take two balls, make two pendulums and collide them. According to the theory, they should make an excellent pulsed-force pendulum and, voila, you already have the over-unity machine, at least according to the theory you promote and to your previous statements. Too bad that reality sadly contradicts you?

Tinu

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2007, 05:35:14 PM »
Part 1 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

Dear Tinu,

Thank you for your excellent post.  I am glad that you spotted the error.  You may want to read the explanation in Slide 1.  The more vigorous treatment involves the use of integrals and differential equations as you suggested.  That may be beyond the scope of the Forum (and the Chinese Officials).  In our simplification for the layman, we committed errors that you kindly pointed out.

I shall answer your long post in multiples sections.  In the case when
(1)   Weight of Pendulum of mass 80 kilograms implies (Force due to weight = Mg or 80xg where g is the gravitational constant.  The value g is approximately 9.8 m/s/s on the surface of the Earth.)
(2)   The pulse force is 10xg (in the same units as (1))

The Tan(a) is 10/80 or 0.125 and hence the angle is indeed 7.125 degrees.  You are perfectly right.

End of Part 1.

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2007, 05:37:33 PM »
Part 2 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

If Mg=60xg, F=10xg, then
Angle a = 9.48 degrees
Hori Energy/Vert Energy = 2.014?

When we apply the Pulse Force F, the tension (T) in the string must increase from 60xg to a larger value.  To be exact, we can calculate this larger value from the Pythagoras Theorem and get the answer as (sqrt of (10*10 + 60*60))xg = 60.828xg.

This increased tension of the string (which is a force) can be decomposed into the vertical and the horizontal components.  The horizontal component counters the horizontal Pulse Force F.  The vertical component is responsible for lifting the pendulum mass/weight.

The horizontal Pulse Force does work as there is horizontal displacement.  The vertical component of the Tension of the string does work as there is vertical displacement.  We can work out the ratio of these two energies.  That ratio horizontal energy/vertical energy is 2.014.  (In fact if you work out the various cases of small angles, the ratio is approximately 2.)  Thus Slide 8 is not an assumption.  It is the result of such mathematics.

End of Part 2

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2007, 05:40:45 PM »
Part 3 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

?Tinu wrote: ?Angle ?a? for a pendulum mass of 80kg and a horizontal force of 10kg*g is 7.125 degrees. This rationale is having a physical meaning in equilibrium only! (Static setup/no movement). However, the pendulum that is starting from the vertical will not stop at this angle. So, the force equality does not hold and you should know it. Then why applying this simple equality??

Let us focus on the Law of Parallelogram of Forces.  We know that after we applied the Horizontal Pulse Force and then let go, the pendulum will swing back. Let us isolate the two parts and analyze them separately.  Remember that the Law of Parallelogram of forces is a result of Newton?s Law of Motion.  If it fails, Newton?s Laws of Motion also fails. (At least in this case of Pendulum with a Pulse Force.)

If we apply the Horizontal Pulse Force from the vertical first time, the above configuration and calculation will hold.  Energy is added to the pendulum system.  However, the energy does NOT come from the horizontal pulse energy alone.

With pendulum mass of 60 Kilograms and Horizontal Pulse Force of 10g and a displacement of Lsin(a) where L is length of the Pendulum, a is the displacement angle, 2.014 units of horizontal Pulse Energy Leads Out 1 unit of vertical gravitational energy.  That vertical gravitational energy enters the Pendulum System via the tension in the string.

Note that the value of 2.014 is specific to the above example only.

End of Part 3

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2007, 05:43:08 PM »
Part 4 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

In our communication with the PCT patent examiner, we also showed the case of having a Pulse Force at an angle.  (Figure 4.2 in the document TPU-Theory1-5.doc in http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2621.msg40277.html#msg40277)
The angle was deliberately set so that the tension of the string (T) and the Pulse Force (F) are equal  with the Pendulum Mass at the mid-position.  At this initial position, the two forces are equal and a slight application of the Pulse Force will have displacement by both S and F.  Both will do work.

It is obvious that not all the energy comes from the Pulse Force.  We then extended the argument to Pulse Forces in all different directions.

End of Part 4

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2007, 05:47:02 PM »
Part 5 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

On the second and subsequent application of the Horizontal Pulse Force.

The Pulse Force F will now be applied to a moving pendulum system. Tinu is right in saying that if we completed our application of the Pulse, the pendulum system will keep going.  This is because it has acquired energy from the first application.

Tinu may be asking for an accurate mathematical representation of the general case of applying the Pulse Force in a moving Pendulum system.  The general horizontal energy may be thought of as the integral(T1(x)sin(a)dx  where T1(x) is the varying horizontal force component of the Tension of the String; a is the angle of displacement and dx is the horizontal displacement.

T1(x) is a function of the pulse supplied externally.  That can vary greatly depending on whether mechanical, magnetic or electric means are used.  Without that knowledge, the equation cannot be vigorously solved.  (This is the reason why Tsing Hua University is involved to do a much more accurate mathematical and computer modeling.)

In our presentation, we use the simple first application of the First Pulse Force  to demonstrate that some work (work implies energy used) is done by the tension of the String.  This is the Lead Out Energy.

End of Part 5

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2007, 05:50:28 PM »
Part 6 of 6 in the reply to Tinu on slides 5-8 of Taiwan2a.htm

Tinu wrote: ?According to the above, knowing the angle ?a? (7.125 degrees), mass M (80kg at your wish) and force F (10 kgf) one easily can compute the ratio Hori Energy/ Vert Energy, as you asked me to do ??. I will not do it, because both equations are incorrect and so is the ratio between them. ??.. Please solve it correctly, using the right equations and then we shall talk again. Deal??

As mentioned and expanded in Part 5,

T1(x) is a function of the pulse supplied externally as well as the classical potential and kinetic energy exchange..  That can vary greatly depending on whether mechanical, magnetic or electric means are used.  Without that knowledge, the equation cannot be solved.  The classical treatment ignores the pulse totally.  Thus almost all University Students learned the Pendulum Theory with NO periodic pulse. (This is the reason why Tsing Hua University is involved to do a much more accurate mathematical and computer modeling.)

I know now Tinu can easily substitute the values and get the ratio of Hori Energy/Vert Energy.  It will be less than 2.014.  I shall leave the exact value for someone else interested to post.

You can wait for Tsing Hua University or other Top Academic Institutions to supply the comprehensive mathematical and computer modeling.

It took me a lot a write-ups and I know I still cannot provide an easy explanation for all.  It was very easy at Tsing Hua University because we could interact directly.  Internet is no substitute for tuition at a top University.

End of Part 6 (The End of Explanations)

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2007, 09:15:25 PM »
The 2 pendulum experiment suggested by Tinu as a separate discussion

Tinu: ?Take two balls, make two pendulums and collide them. According to the theory, they should make an excellent pulsed-force pendulum and, voila, you already have the over-unity machine, at least according to the theory you promote and to your previous statements. Too bad that reality sadly contradicts you??

According to the Lee-Tseung Lead Out theory, there must be a Pulse Force to Lead Out Gravitational Energy.  The moment you stop applying the Pulse Force, no Gravitational Energy is Lead Out.  Let us focus on Pendulum A.  It is stationary.  Now, we pull Pendulum B up ? to give it the pulse force and energy.  The Pull will Lead Out gravitational energy.  When Pendulum B is let go, it swings towards Pendulum A.  During this swinging back, NO gravitational energy is Lead Out.

Pendulum A is then hit by Pendulum B.  At the impact, Pendulum A can be thought of as receiving a Pulse Force.  However, the duration is short and not much gravitational energy is Lead Out.  There is a loud hitting sound.  Pendulum A swings to approximately the same height as when Pendulum B is pulled. The hitting sound means changing some mechanical energy into sound/heat energy.  Energy goes out of the two-Pendulum system.  Eventually, both pendulums will stop.

In a Milkovic type Pendulum system, each swing can be pushed or pulsed.  The total energy of the system is the sum of the pulse energy + the Lead Out gravitational energy.  This is the reason that Milkovic et al are working so hard.  They believe that they are dealing with Over Unity Devices.  If you accept that Newton?s Laws in the form of Parallelogram of forces can be applied to the Pendulum, then Milkovic et al are NOT wasting their time.

If I am not mistaken, you are doubting the correctness of applying the Law of Parallelogram of Forces to the Pendulum System.  Tinu: "This rationale is having a physical meaning in equilibrium only! (Static setup/no movement). However, the pendulum that is starting from the vertical will not stop at this angle. So, the force equality does not hold and you should know it. Then why applying this simple equality? This is another (and quite a huge) mistake."
I do not share that doubt.

(If you can find a way for Pendulum B to hit Pendulum A perfectly with no sound or no loss of energy whatsoever, you will find that Pendulum A swings slightly to a higher position than Pendulum B.  The cycle should repeat with both pendulums swinging higher  - but how can you prevent energy loss?)

Now study the phenomena of resonance.  A high pitched sound can crack many glasses if the natural frequencies were just right.  Resonance effect is not just for mechanical systems.  It can be found in sound, electric, magnetic, electromagnetic wave environments.  This is indeed the advice I can give to Milkovic at el.  (In addition to increasing the effective gravitational constant g via permanent magnets.)

Lawrence Tseung
Having no doubts in the application of the Law of Parallelogram of Forces in Pendulum Systems  Leads Out confidence in the Milkovic et al inventions.

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2007, 09:39:09 PM »
Cracking glasses with resonance effects

I believe most physicists agree that the energy used to crack the glass is already with the glass.  It is just Lead Out by the high pitched sound for self destructive purposes.

If it can be Lead Out for self destructive purposes, can it be Lead Out for useful purposes???

Lawrence Tseung
Resonance effects Lead Out possibility of using the Energy inherent in the object.

tinu

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2007, 10:54:24 PM »
Mr. Tseung,

I?m glad we are talking. I still disagree with the theory and I keep suggesting presenting it in a proper way, free of errors.

It is not the vectors summation I doubt but the other forces you neglect (centripetal/centrifugal) that always play an important role in non-linear motion.

I also doubt the rationale behind the ?lead-out? energy. Please follow me: a true pulse is so short in duration that the huge and slow pendulum may and actually can ? for all practical purposes - be considered frozen in time. Of course, the pendulum has to change its speed in order to gain energy from the pulsed force, so it is not completely ?frozen? but the approximation will hold. (I am now also sure that you are very familiar with this kind of approximations but I said it mainly for other readers, to be able to follow our conversation.) If the angle at which the pendulum is pulsed is small, the ratio between vertical and horizontal displacement is very small, so the vertical displacement during the duration of pulsed force may be approximated to zero, in the same manner in which the mathematical treatment considers the pendulum almost frozen in time. But if the vertical displacement can be approximated to zero, this is clearly telling us that no gravitational exchange of energy is involved. Basically no exchange of energy between the pendulum and the gravitational field of Earth can take place in such a short duration of time, during which the pendulum does not travel on the vertical. So, no ?lead out? gravitational energy can manifest.

Pulses may give an excellent study environment for astute students but may I remind you that their treatment is based on the law of conservation of energy? Why? Because the nature always tells us it happens this way. Your explanation based on the mechanical loses in the case of two colliding pendulums may hold up to a point but it will not satisfy a logic person. Remember that around us there are no-loses interactions (gas molecules, for instance). They are the perfect example of pulsed interaction and it happens that they are also immersed in the gravitational field. Yet, an isolated container does not heat itself up as it should be if the molecules would gain energy from the gravitational field. It will remain for an undefined period in thermal equilibrium, despite of trillions of pulsed interactions / seconds?

There are also other macro-molecular setups, in which loses can be lowered very close to zero. For instance, instead of colliding two balls of steel, two balls electrically charged or two magnets can be used to transfer the energy in a pulsed manner. No mechanical losses during such a ?non-contact? collision would manifest. For such a system placed in a good vacuum, all mechanical loses may be lowered very, very much, just enough to detect the effect of any ?lead-out? energy, if real. I would go for experiment but because of the above example with gas remaining in equilibrium, my actual guess is that either the physical assumptions made or the mathematical model used to solve the differential equations is having a flaw. I?m human and I may be wrong. If fact, like I said it before in other threads, I almost desperately wish I am wrong but the person to step forward and show me the free energy is still waited...

We keep in touch. The week to follow it will be very busy for me and on top of it I?m also going to travel through my county. I?ll read your posts when I can but most probably I will not have the time to reply. But who?s in a hurry, here? ;)

Have a nice day,
Tinu

tinu

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2007, 11:18:24 PM »
Cracking glasses with resonance effects

I believe most physicists agree that the energy used to crack the glass is already with the glass.  It is just Lead Out by the high pitched sound for self destructive purposes.

If it can be Lead Out for self destructive purposes, can it be Lead Out for useful purposes???

Lawrence Tseung
Resonance effects Lead Out possibility of using the Energy inherent in the object.

One more, just for fun: If ?most physicists agree that the energy used to crack the glass is already with the glass?, I must be among the few of them?

I simply believe that the wave (the sound) energy accumulates because of resonant condition, up to the point the glass can no longer increase its amplitude (beyond its elasticity limits) and when this happens, the glass cracks. (In the absence of resonant frequency, the energy simply can not accumulate in the glass.) There are good movies on internet in which you can actually see this amplitude increasing at resonance, over a period of seconds (2-3s or more). It does not take a large amount of energy to break a thin glass (maybe a fraction of Joule is more than enough). A loud sound is carrying enough power to provide this amount of energy needed to break the glass.

I wanted to respond because this is my major concern with various anomalous effects posted in TPU threads. If a coil is pumped at high power levels and if it can not radiate well (i.e. donut-shaped coil(s)) then at some point after integrating this power of tents of W for several seconds, all this energy has to leak-out somehow, somewhere. And at tents of W for several seconds we are talking about energies that can easily kill a man, not to mention damaging a sensitive oscilloscope?

Tinu

ltseung888

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Re: The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2007, 01:52:02 AM »
Resonance Experiment

Dear Tinu,

I remember way back at University some 40 years ago, I watched a film related to resonance.  The film started with a tuning fork  that caused a piano, many string instruments and other tuning forks to vibrate. The resultant sound was much louder  than that from the tuning fork alone.  Even after the tuning fork was stopped, these instruments continued to resonate  or vibrate to produce the tune for sometime.

The professor at that time gave the explanation that resonance can be ?stimulated?.   The resultant sound energy or the continued vibration of many devices do not come from the first tuning fork alone.  He used this to explain the collapse the Old Tacoma Narrows Bridge in 1940.  He also compared this with the Laser (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation).  Have we been taught two different versions of Physics?

At least we agree on one thing ? The TPU experimenters need to be very careful in dealing with high frequency pulses at resonance conditions.

Lawrence Tseung
Resonance Leads Out discussion on the source of energy.  Does all energy come from the original source?