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Author Topic: Tubes?  (Read 203161 times)

pese

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2007, 05:54:18 PM »
Hi Pese,

Steven said he origionally got the idea of electron circuits which used the rectifier tubes, not that they produce FE....

to go further you need Triodes.
The tubes first made by Lee De Forrest when he placed a spiral shaped grid between the cathode and the anode so he could influence the electron beam flowing in between.

It's intresting you mention the Gamma emission,it involves the compton scattering and all is intresting related to electron emission.
Specially because we know the voltage has to be high enough to "make the violing work" so to say.

But if that is the true behind the TPU?
i do not know, could be i hope we will find out.

Marco.


MS was trying wit Rect DIODES-Tubes.
5U4 5V4  that work 350V and about 220mA   (about 80 Watt)

the dubble triode that now act is  (i must look , but i think 2 time 2 watt maxium.
Tesla worked with pentode tube ( in US = Beam tube) (abot 5 Wat , and an
weekly diode system in same Tube   that can wower lower than 1 watt and les than 50mA (about)
Must see the datasheet 70L7.
6 pcs was in his car (but the pentode possible woreke faor frequency devider to form an
low frequency for his AC- Motor.

BUT it is to wonder that tube wit 70volt filiament heater was used !
Only 12Volt Battery on board !!
6 and 12 volt tubes  was also 1930-1940 in any construction on the marked.

To use 12nq7 or the lower cost 12at7 12ax7 enz  or some high power triodes ,
are equivalent to SM construction , that also cant produced the "invented" effect,
(Only some week nois from barium filament can be (possible) be an effect.
Pese

Attention to understand.
70L7 !This is NOT an rectifier beam tube .
this is an diode rectifier system in in (very week type)
and an stronger Penthode  (US say BEAM) Amplifier tube in it.
  cathode + 3 gird  + anode.
3.gird will alltime connected with cathode.
RCA PATENT say BEAM Tube for it (RCA Patent)  .
The (older) Penthode System from TELFUNKEN was
exacly same .
The US Patent say , 3.gird connecte in tube with cathode.
The German Tube externly.  So the US have an grat
Patent for his RCA 6L6 Tube (in Audio Amplifier)
an the German one EL34 (EL36) is the equivalent
(better) one. 
This only to say , what a BEAM-Tube is

In any way  possibly the typ Number 70L7 , can possibly be WRONG
(was not Informated from TESLA !)
So it ist very hard to examine to undersTAND 2HIS WORK2

gp
GP

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2007, 06:23:20 PM »
how about the phase invertor now im guessing it does exacaly what it says

inverts the phase so wont that cancle the flux from the oncomming siginal and the returning siginal from the triode tube  also and in solid state wont a crystal do the phase inverting for us ?

is

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2007, 06:10:34 PM »
ok now

i was reading the specks on the tube i have and
in the first 2 sentences of the speck sheet it says in my understanding that i need only 1 tube for the tpu sending and recieving of signals {low voltage pluses }

ok so now what i think is this  2 transmitters 1 reciever  in the middle 1 triode tube
transmitters should be out of phase of each other

i triode tube = 3 fets? or 6 ? 

1 for each freq
push and pull?

so 2 triode tubes 1 for each transmitter ?

transmitters are 2 wraps of flat copper or many many fine strands lamp wire?  for the primary and a match mass copper finer gage stranded for the secondary then an emitter point  that is 1 transmitter top or bottom the other transmitter is the exact same except wound other dirrection and and put on top of collector

collector is identical to transmitter except wound other way and 2 of them 1 for bottom transmitter and 1 for top transmitter

does this make any sence?

i guess we would need feedback for the tubes so 2 feed back coils wound on the collectors top 1 and bottom 1  then it is only the controls left so do they get the out put of both triodes put togather and are the wound over all others in 3 or 6  or 9 segments?

humm still thinking 

ist



turbo

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2007, 09:30:54 PM »
:)

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2007, 03:15:31 PM »
@ marco im ready to know about that radio i have if you have some time

also the 6bq7a tubes  does  any one know how you could hook them up and what can be used as a power source for the tubes from what i have herd and read most tubes operate on higher voltages  want to play with the tube i have but dont know where to  start  in even getting the thing to turn on

for some one like me with verry little ss exp. tubes sound at the best place to start  any help well would be great

using tubes  we eliminate most of the possible problems we would encounter in ss

so it bothers me that almost no one has played with them

we have been told where to start but choose to ignore it!!!!

Y????

ISTEAM!!

z_p_e

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2007, 03:41:17 PM »
IS, and all.

What I am reading here scares me.

Folks, tubes use high voltage!!

If you do not know what you are doing in electronics, think twice about delving into tube units.

I have been shocked by 600V working on a tube guitar amplifier, and it wasn't pretty  :o

Keep in mind that a tube unit will be fairly expensive, and limited in functionality. For example, don't expect the same flexibility as the TP600 or TP900 I am designing.

I am looking into designing a tube unit for the TPU folks here also. But as I said, be prepared to dish out the $ and don't expect the world unless you want 100 tubes in this thing.

Regards,
Darren

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2007, 05:02:28 PM »
hello darren and all

i currently have a a shine square generator tube style it is a heath built  about 40 -50 years old works great  that is generating my pluses  wahat i want it to use the pre amp tube that i have with the coil and when the other 2 i ordered come in i want to use 1 for the phase invertor at the othere end of the coil and send the 3 square waves through the tubes to turn off and on 12 v for my control coils to make huge kicks that is all

how can i use that tube any help? this is only for finding the right freqs and to make the coil work this is not for my finished tpu only to test the coils till i find the right  coil

then i want to make a ss circuit that does the exact same thing as all the tubes and put it in the ring but first i must find out how it will work and we were told tubes were the easyest way

so i start there

also tesla never had solid state did he? he used tubes in his electric powered car i think all he did was take the tpu further we are working with 3 freqs tesla was working with 5 freqs and lower speeds for higher power to power big induction motor to drive the car 

when we run a race do we start at the finish line?


is

 re viewing some newer material i have a question  what does a pentogon have to do with the tpu?
i rewatched the sm videos agin and if you look at the shape of the 6" coil it looks like it is a pentigon the controls and the driver circuit on the 1 side og the pentigon also in IH  thred about magitisum mit refers to a pentigon ring as charging by induction and all angles focous on the center of the ring  hummm

« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 06:30:48 PM by innovation_station »

orbs

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2007, 06:53:08 PM »
Looking at the specs, it sounds like the E88CC/6922 dual triode (long-life version of ECC88/6DJ8/6N23P) would probably be a candidate. In particular, it is still being manufactured by JJ Electronic and available for a reasonable price (if you don't need gold pins ;)). The 6922 is also still being manufactured by Sovtek (also for Electro-Harmonix as 6922EH). The PCC88/7DJ8 is the tv version of the ECC88 with 7V (or 300mA if connected in series) instead of 6.3V for heating.

[My idea being that if one already invests a lot of time then why not use a tube manufactured in this century and that has recently passed a functional check, rather than save a bit money (or likely pay even more for an old or NOS tube). SM hinted that any VHF triode will do, so why not use one of the best? And perhaps if people could agree on the same tube type it could even make comparison of results easier.]
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 08:15:04 PM by orbs »

pese

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2007, 07:21:32 PM »
;ost ubes also working at 100Volts an lower
(also power Tube , for (example) Tesla transformers.

i worked myself (as child) with tube for radio receivers (1950) that need only
12 volt vor "anode" supply  !

 Also  in the `50  come an lot of tubes in germany also usa  (rca and telefunken) that worked
at 6 volt and 12 volt ANODE SUPPLY !!
(Yes i know that ALSO the Heater (filament) Voltage are most at 6 or 12 Volts

ITs NOT MISTAKE from me !! It is Knowledge !!.
(and -now- lost science after only 50 years !!)

Gustav Pese

But unfortunatly , yiu can "shure" nothing do with this "misterios" Tubes in the Cook design.

duff

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2007, 07:41:03 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:37:47 PM by duff »

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2007, 08:08:50 PM »
@ duff  ;D ;D ;D ;D THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH I HOPE YOU HAVE FOUND WHAT I HAVE ON THAT SITE

that is a really good link you posted there wow is all i can say  and i havent even looked at the tubes yet!! or all the books

but let me tell you the magnetic amps look verry kool and much like the tpu

a question about 6bq7a triode tube

the first tube acts as a high speed switch? and the phase invertor  tube acts as an oscilater ? inverting the siginal?

for all 3 freqs?

will the 6bq7a act as 3 indivual switches? if so how would i wire it up?

thanks



for all who are wondering what i have found here is the link im sure this is golder tpu basics and i now beleave the tpu is a magnetic ampiflyer thanks agin duff read the entire book here is the link

http://triodetubes.com/data/books/mag_amp.pdf

enjoy

ist
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 09:08:08 PM by innovation_station »

pese

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2007, 08:42:25 PM »
http://members.tripod.com/~gabevee/mytubamp.html

if you will work , with tubes  e88cc  and others

thousends of page are in www.

cant understand that you asking for circuits.

also high voltages are NOT dangerous (BEACUSE only some mamps are needed for preamplifier tubes.)

Nobody will died with that !

Pese

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2007, 01:21:20 AM »
someone with more experience must read this book from pg 207 to 230 it is how we might be using thease tubes for the tpu please have a look at it it is on the link from duff it is the book called lauer_radio_enginerring im having a hard time with it but it does make much sence on how it could be hooked up


ok you all here we go

here is a another book that should be looked at  on pg 224 it talkes of tube driven beat freqency osolators hummm

the book is called basic radio the esencitals of electron tubes and there circuits  by j barton hoag



in this book on page 345 is a secematic  for a blocking osoliator using tubes also it tells us of the regenerative part  of the circuit  the book is electronic transformers and circuits  there was also a plused hifreq transformer


ok guys here is another data sheet fot the 6bq7a tube  but notice at the top of it it says for tv tuners using  dirrect cuppleded cathode  drive circuits

also it says 6.3 volts @.4 amps for the heater and in some of the schems that is all that is needed to create a regenerative osolatior circuit  hummmm it sounds like supply the heater and let the tubes convert the power

here is the link for the data sheet http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/tubedata/6BQ7-A.PDF


if you are still hungry for more here is another book  on pg 68 it talks of voltage amps using triode tubes and they sound right along the lines as the tpu aswell  the book is called  electron tube circuits well worth the read



ok some where i was reading today it said about beat freqs and it was talking about the diffrence between the 2 freqs eg..   freq 1 is 5kh and freq 2 is 6 kh  the collector coil should be tuned 1 kh or the diffrence between the 2 freqs should be close to 7.8 hz in the tpu case does that make sence  ?

a freq gap between the beats at around 7.8 hz

just 1 more question for tonight will 1 6bq7a do it all for 1 freq? i mean will 1 tube send a signal then recieve that same signal back agin then phase invert that signal send it off then get it back agin then amp it to output? all just with the 1 tube per freq? can a triode do that?

« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 05:08:51 AM by innovation_station »

orbs

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2007, 11:23:41 AM »
Also  in the `50  come an lot of tubes in germany also usa  (rca and telefunken) that worked
at 6 volt and 12 volt ANODE SUPPLY !!
There are two experimenting kits (Franzis Lernpaket R?hrentechnik and Lernpaket R?hrenradios) that include such tubes (the kit creator has even written a book in German about tubes working with 6V-60V). However, they might be slower at these voltages (the speed of the electrons passing from cathode to anode is proportional to the square root of the voltage, so it depends what the distance between cathode and anode of a particular tube is to compare the different voltages).

On a somewhat related note, tubes seem to be more popular again since I've just seen there are even some R?hren-Workshops about them in Germany.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 08:27:58 PM by orbs »

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2007, 02:12:54 PM »
here is 1 more thought if tubes run slower on 6 -60 volts then how about the ramp up time and time  where the tpu adjust its self to self reaosnance is that the tubes warming up or building up voltage for it to properly work after ramp up the tubes have power fore use externally

well it kinda fits things

is