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Author Topic: Tubes?  (Read 203664 times)

turbo

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2007, 02:06:20 PM »
now that is called a magnetostrictive oscillator.

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2007, 02:53:28 PM »
 ;D

hello all i did find somthing of intrest last night as well

might it be tpu secreats?

hummmm oh i think so

and it is about phase but i think i will let the rest of the world find this one  ;)

is

ok i have posted other things that will help if they havent yet they will but i might as well post this too because how long will it be b4 this gets posted who know but it is key to the tpu

why is phase key?

well more than just making the mags rotate btw 1 group of controls go 1 way and another spinn another way remember the quote from sm  wich implys this? if we had a ball and it was seperated in the center and we could spinn it in 2 dirrections what would the remifactions be?


hummmmm

phase is more than the on pluse jumping around the ring there are  trailing  things with phase out of phase of the first pluse by 90 deg or a quartor wave hummm current? to the feedbacks  from a quaterwave humm also the perpendicular thing does that work hand in hand with phase oh i think so when i get to it i will post what im talking of


but maybe someone else will first i sure hope so

is


isnt  the highest Q osc a crystal?

just a thought if we can take 3 square waves and make a sine wave can we take 3 sines and make a square wave?

so after reading what it says below  applyed to the tpu  feedback coils wound over all others and 3 or 4 of them depending on config of coil  like gk4 4 will be easyer to understand right now  so we will have current in the feedback coils but it will be dc right  from the lower ring spinning 1 way and the top spinning the other way now when the 2 currents come togather insid of the feedback coil we will have positive and netigive gian of current in the feedback when both pluses are in the same feedback coil

im out there but i think that is what is required to progress this project                      "the out there thinking"

when the coil is set up as below then the current phase will be shifted by 90deg so the feedback coil will have current the 1 behind the 1 being plused so that is how our beat freq works as i think  have the beat so it corasponds with the phase of the current  so both currents are in the coil at the same time making pure dc current!!!

now how is that

i will get there trust me but it wont be alone as i laque most of the skills but i will learn them ;)

is

thinking i wont crack it ..... gall darn it i will ........ cuz im mentaly ill ........ from crazzzzy vill......   

just some eminem the ~~~~ist~~~~~      way
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 06:42:43 PM by innovation_station »

z_p_e

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #107 on: August 03, 2007, 06:17:00 AM »
Some folks here ought to be working with 12V tubes, rather than the 200+V ones!

Check here for some good info on them:

http://www.duntemann.com/12vtubes/12vtubesindex.htm

Darren

BEP

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #108 on: August 03, 2007, 07:53:47 AM »
Some folks here ought to be working with 12V tubes, rather than the 200+V ones!

Check here for some good info on them:

http://www.duntemann.com/12vtubes/12vtubesindex.htm

Darren

Agreed!

I'm experimenting with some 8056's out of my R390a right now. Excellent link! I've been looking for that info and the Duncan link on his page. I want to try some Thyratrons as they can handle a high capacitor discharge and switch off completely once plate and cathode are at the sam potential. They can also be biased to switch on at a selected voltage - even a small voltage.

@Z_P_E,

Do you know of any thoriated or cold cathode thyratrons?

pese

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    • Freie Energie und mehr ... Free energy and more ...
Re: Tubes?
« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2007, 02:21:40 PM »
I used a variation of the attached while experimenting with magnetic rotation.
A good place to visit for much detail and examples of many circuits is http://www.vias.org/basicradio/basic_radio_15_09.html .

When I used this circuit I doubled it and connected them together as a multivibrator. The unique thing about this is that the frequency is highly dependent upon the magnetic resonance of the core and much less on the resonance of the coil. The coil of each tube circuit can be split into adjacent control coils.

I have some doubts about SM using it as I strongly believe he had two sets of tubes. Each set consisted of a triode and a diode. I suspect a triode or dual triode because the photos appear to show a metallic base tube. This would mean it was rated for UHF/VHF. The second tube appears to have a separate plate cap. This could mean many things but at that size of tube it usually meant it was a high voltage diode.

That would probably mean he had two blocking oscillators wired together as a multivibrator so they would alternately pulse one time each.

How would he get two pulses out of each?
The two coils of each circuit - each located 90 degrees apart would appear as two pulses - one lagging by 90 degrees.

How would he get two freqs?
Each half of the multivibrator circuit could be different by turn count or core mass so each half of the multivibrator would complete its cycle at a different rate.

Where is the third frequency?
The difference between the first two pulse rates would create a component equal to the difference between them.

What about one collector being higher Q than the other?
You can increase the Q factor of a coil by applying feedback from another coil(a tickler coil). The tickler coil is generally much fewer turns and carries a much higher current than the other coil. How you apply this info depends upon your idea of coil layout.

I hope this helps. At a minimum it should provide interesting results.
The basic radio hoag jpg ist wrong.

+ Batt is directly connected over the Coil (L1) to the ground (-B) so that this an "shorted" Voltage .
This L1  mus be powered  from +Batt
the way that connection are :
+ Batt - L1 - Tube Anode.

L2  -Batt - L2 - G1   ist OK.

Usually for L1  is used L1 with (varible) or fix condensor in paralell ,
this way to have an fix and constant frequeny.
(do not forget the heater voltage additionalle.)

Pese
www.stormloader.com/members/pese/fe/index.html

z_p_e

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2007, 02:25:32 PM »
BEP,

Have you seen this page? (Very good overview of switching tubes of all kinds).

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pulse.html

He seems to have specs and is perhaps selling some as well. Might be "overkill" though.

Also, download this book if you haven't already:

http://www.pmillett.com/Books/henney_industry.pdf

Darren

PS. I also came across some info on my hard drive that showed a "small type" of thyratron is a FG-57 or FG-67.

innovation_station

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2007, 02:35:56 PM »
hello all it might be time to go diggin to find out exactly what tubes sm used and where he used them well we know he used the 6bq7a as a phase invertor and maybe just a pair of them to send and invert i will start looking and c what i find

ist
im sure there many tubes out there that can do things to help this project but we should use exactly the tubes sm mentions he says those spicific tubes for a reason the question is why?

ok well i read the important info all agin and we have missed much so far there is still much to be covered

but the tubes he says he got the idea from are the ones turbo is playing with but he does not use those tubes

he uses only 2 dubble triodes or to simplfly it 4 single triode tubes so what kind of osc/phase invertor  can we make with 4 triode tubes 


here is a picture of the tube i got a week or so ago i beleave it is the 1 sm said he used in his tpu  i paid 5 bucks for it
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 08:40:45 PM by innovation_station »

BEP

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #112 on: August 04, 2007, 07:08:35 PM »
The basic radio hoag jpg ist wrong.

+ Batt is directly connected over the Coil (L1) to the ground (-B) so that this an "shorted" Voltage .
This L1  mus be powered  from +Batt
the way that connection are :
+ Batt - L1 - Tube Anode.

L2  -Batt - L2 - G1   ist OK.

Usually for L1  is used L1 with (varible) or fix condensor in paralell ,
this way to have an fix and constant frequeny.
(do not forget the heater voltage additionalle.)

Pese
www.stormloader.com/members/pese/fe/index.html


No, it isn't. It worked quite well. It is no more a short than a solenoid coil is a short. While I am quite sure you know far more than I about valves, I have had this circuit running.

Capacitance across the coil is to be avoided. The reason is the resonance needed is that of the core not the coil. You'll notice the two coils on the core are counterwound. When power is applied the core coils drop the majority of the voltage, the grid starts as negative and prevents tube conduction.
As voltage stabilizes across the coils the grid swings positive. This causes the tube to conduct and the B+ inductor to drop the majority of the voltage. As core flux decreases the grid swings more negative and starts the whole process over again.

This oscillator will produce very high amplitudes at incredibly low frequencies. The harmonics generated are almost always super-sonic and so are the movements of the core. A multivibrator or push-pull version of this circuit on a Maxwell coil easily produces spherical field rotation.

A garden variety tube will not handle the sinking current ability. A trigger tube may be more appropriate. The coils on such a device must be a very high turn count because a good DC resistance is needed compared to the tube + B+ inductor resistance. The object is to -constrict- the core and cause movement of the core within the grid coil end.

To that end - The core must be of good magnetostictive material or stranded/multi-element - as in speaker wire or bundles of 16 ga. iron wire.

Yes, heater voltage must be considered - if you are using a 'hot' cathode. Even if you are, another fixed coil (fixed allowing movement of the core within) at the grid end of the core should provide enough AC to heat the filament.
 :)

Super God

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2007, 07:42:44 PM »
Something weird I noticed, probably insiginificant or something.  But on all of my coils with NOTHING attached at all, show zero voltage and a flat line across the scope.  I have 3 control coils per collector and three collectors.  Now, when I add my bias coil, it is wound all the way around and back again, it shows little spikes for some reason?  I don't get these with any of the other coils, but only this one.  Maybe nothing, just something I noticed.

turbo

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2007, 10:22:21 PM »
Hi God  :)

Do they look like this?
Then they are NOT insignificant.

Sataur

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2007, 11:07:46 PM »
Check the frequency of the spikes. If it is 60 or 50hz (depending on where you live), it is just EMF fluctuations caused by the AC lines in your house. Also check for any electric fans or motors running in the vicinity which may be causing EMF fluctuations.

I get those rouge spikes too sometimes.

turbo

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2007, 11:37:45 PM »
Check the frequency of the spikes. If it is 60 or 50hz (depending on where you live), it is just EMF fluctuations caused by the AC lines in your house. Also check for any electric fans or motors running in the vicinity which may be causing EMF fluctuations.

I get those rouge spikes too sometimes.

NO it is not!

In fact this complete experiment is performed off grid.
there is no single connection to a 50/60Hz AC powergrid what so ever.

I used two perfect sine waves generated by my own equipment.
It is obvious you do not know what i am actually doing.

Marco.

Sataur

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2007, 02:23:23 AM »
No, I did *not* mean that the device had to be *connected* in any to the AC mains, but merely that the wires that carry the AC voltage through your house give off a fluctuating EMF that can be inducted by any coils or bits of wire lying around, and can be picked up by oscilloscopes. Electric motors also give off an EMF as well, such as ceiling fans and such, but this may be less of a problem.


I would suggest putting the device in a box of copper mesh to block any external EMF's that may be interfering with the coils.

And regardless, if the frequency isn't 50-60 Hz then you don't have a problem. I wasn't accusing you of naivety, just merely offering a friendly reminder.

Super God

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2007, 04:27:44 AM »
Oooo Marco!  Please describe your transformer setup!!  I wanted to try this experiement myself.  Interesting spikes, I must say mine are in the millivolt range which is probably something around the house or in the oscilloscpe.  But the weird thing is that it doesn't happen is any other coil??  Wow.  Looking forward to hearing from you!!

turbo

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Re: Tubes?
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2007, 04:40:01 AM »
No, I did *not* mean that the device had to be *connected* in any to the AC mains, but merely that the wires that carry the AC voltage through your house give off a fluctuating EMF that can be inducted by any coils or bits of wire lying around, and can be picked up by oscilloscopes. Electric motors also give off an EMF as well, such as ceiling fans and such, but this may be less of a problem.


I would suggest putting the device in a box of copper mesh to block any external EMF's that may be interfering with the coils.

And regardless, if the frequency isn't 50-60 Hz then you don't have a problem. I wasn't accusing you of naivety, just merely offering a friendly reminder.

i understand your kindness, but you still do not understand.
There are no wires running thrue my house which are carrying any form of current therefore there cannot be interference from them.

i do not need to put it in a box because i have tried many frequency's already and i now know how deep the rabbit hole goes....

Marco.