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Author Topic: double wound and cone shaped coils  (Read 18772 times)

Offline Vorg

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double wound and cone shaped coils
« on: May 26, 2005, 05:44:05 AM »
Awhile back I saw a web site or somthing talking about using 2 wires at the same time when winding a coil and then connecting the two in series to some how make it better, but now I cant find it. Also saw a web site that had some info on winding coils in a cone pattern like in the muller motor, but I can't find that one ether now. anyone seen ether of these pages?

Offline terry5732

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2005, 12:32:06 AM »
Don Adsitt had stuff on winding conical coils on his site He showed how the shape affected the repulsion properties for use in pulse motors.

Offline Vorg

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2005, 07:05:46 AM »
I had those pages bm'd and this one . But I thought I saw another somewhere about the cone shaped coil. One thing about that page on  testing which coil works best. Maybe winding in the same direction end to end each layer allows it to build a field faster or somthing, BUT, which method of winding is better  for collecting energy? Back and forth or as he showed? A coil that's better at generating energy may out way the increased output gained by the slightly higher RPM of the coil thats better at driving the rotor. In the Muller setup, the coils spend far more time generating electricty then generating magnetic fields to drive the rotor. In a 16 magent setup, each coil may still only get pulsed electricly once every rotation, but it gets pulsed 14-15 times magneticly every rotation depending on how long the driving pulse last.

I have noticed a conflicting bit of info. Some show the cone coils used with the large end to the magnets and some show with the small end. It's real hard to tell on the muller pictures because they have that foil shield that is the same diameter the length of the coil. From the text info, I'd guess the small end should be next to the magnets to reduce coging.

I also saw on one site that placing a steel disc on the back of the coil opiset the magnet side increased the output. So what about making the core T shaped viewed from the side so that it has a built in coil form on the big end. Also what about using ether sheet steel or mu metal over the back and  1/3 to 1/2 the coil opiset the magnets to confing/focus the field and reduce interferance with ajoining coils?

There is also the double wound coil. I found some info where the coils are connected in parrallel or wound in opiset directions, but there was a page about winding two coils at the same time, basicly using two wires insted of 1 and then connecting in series. Would be interresting to see how that works on these systems.

Offline Lightwave

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2005, 05:21:34 PM »
Tesla's bi-filir coil

It can be wound flat, cilindrical, conical, and even od shapes to focus like the back of a picture tube.

double wound coils are more for "air type" with no iron core.   This is normaly called a "choke" coil, but when you pass the "kickback" from a calapsing magnetic field from a coil with an iron core, it passes right through it. Tesla used this like a diode. He also discovered that if you pass the "cickback" through it, you could magnify the voltage by
alowing the voltage to build momentairly before the circuit completed.  The best way to do this is to direct the "kickback" (Formed by Earth's magnetic field) from a coil with an iron core, and divert both outputs to each of the bifilar winding, you can also put a small stepup transformer inbetween.  The trick is to not alow current to flow for a fraction of a second while the coil "magnafies" an impulse from the iron core coil. Tesla originaly used a spark gap to set the time delay. Then tried many other ways like switching comutator, two plates in close contact, where hivoltage creates attraction, and make contact, mercurey, a tube filled with iron pelits and is rotated and kept at near triger potential.  Ed Gray's conversion tube also does this with an internal spark gap.

This can also be accomplished with electronics also, but the"kickback" is more like a static discharge, and can accumulate at very high voltages, and likes to burn out electronic components. So electronics limit the energy that can be accumulated, but are alright for lower voltage setups.

tesla pattent # 685,965

On the first page, figure #2  you  see a double coil marked  "R" is like a iron horseshoe with two coils, and a bar with a spring. When the coils are magnetized, the bar is pulled down, and also shorts the coils, bypassing them just after they are energised. The then calapsing magnetic field generating a high voltage, is layed right over top of the low volatage current. The device operates like a buzzer.

Trickey Tesla.

The thing with the cone, which Tesla also mentions in one of his articles , I'm not sure which one, between 1934 and 1937, he said it was his most favorite coil because it could resonate with any frequency, because each seperate winding acted like a seperate wave length reciever. 

This is how all energy is transmitted from one electron to another. The two cones can recieve any frequency , and retransmit it. One represents the negative sine wave, while the other represents the positive part.

The science we are tought is "dogma" just like religion is.

The vortexuial cone is the primordial particle of our universe to which all things are constructed from. Orignaly called the "either" back in the 1800's and was first visioned wth relation to the  first page in the bible as the "water" . Although not know as a cone, just that it was a particle of creation. A free falling "water drop" takes on the shape of the cone. cones can bee seen everwhere in nature from energy to mater. Magnetism's strengths falls off at a 4 to 1 ratio, as well as gravity. This is because of the shape of the cone.

It was written off with Einstines formula e=mcE2, but now brought back as "dark mater".

Neither Tesla or Einstine could agree on science, but both were briliant scientist.  The fact is , they were both right, but could not see each others science for each others blindness.

Einstine could never have come up with that formula, because he clearly did not fully understand it, to his dieing day, but new of it's importance with spacial time distortions in relation to energy.

"Light squared" in the formula relates to the two internal parts of the electron, while Einstine only believed in a single particle electron.

Take two primordial vortex cones, flip one upside down, and join them togeather, and you have an electron. A "dipole" electron" is like it's own little battery, or magnet. The formula e=mcE2 tells us that in "one second of time" there is the potential of two spinning bodies.  All we have to do is disturb it, pluck it like a gitar string and creat a capture device that is designed to resonate with it.

The cone has a spcific dimention and resonates like a musical note. All musical notes are dimentional as the key of "A" is 110, 220, 440, 880. That is what is ment by dimentional.

The keys to finding it's dimentions are in studding lightwaves, color, and music scales combined with the speed of light and time.

Tesla just said, when you build a coil with a spacific "volume" it had enhanced capabilities. He just never explained what he ment. He new he was up against an establishment of power control, so he hid his knowledge in words and implications knowing someone in the future would figure it out when the time came for it.

Another thing to note, is that the power that is created from a coil "kickback" is not like regular electricity, and does not induce voltage and current in the normal maner, but at near 90 degrees to normal.  Understanding this will show you how to induce any current, voltage you want, because you have the power of the whole Earth's magnetic field behind it.

It's quite likely the "foil" in the coil you are describing, is not a shield, but part of the induction coil circuit that induces current, while the windings magnify the voltage.

That is some Tesl'a secrets not normaly understood of talked about.

My first attempt to make a cone was with #18 wire, and it was very dificult. I ended up loosing some of the apex of the cone as the wire was too springy, and it got away from me before I could epoxy it into a solid form.

The trouble with winding a cone to the shape of a half an electron, is that it is a 4 to 1 ratio and is about 70 degrees. Wire wants to slide off, and is very dificult to keep organized on the cone form.  A jig needs to be made to hold the wire in place while it is being wound, then alow you to epoxy the cone partialy before it's taken off to keep the cone from falling apart. I used masking tape with some sucess, but still was not able to solidify the cone before it started to come apart. An aparatis with three arms that slides over the cone from the apex would work to hold it togeather while epoxy is added inbetween the three arms.

I just happen to be working on one of these today, so I though I would share it with you.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2005, 05:44:29 PM by Lightwave »

Offline Vorg

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2005, 09:48:40 PM »
This is interresting and might be usefull in improving the device, I don't think it is what was done. Here is the link to the pcitures I was looking at: and the link to how the coil is wound: Somthing I did notice in the second link, it seems to show each layer going past the the one below it and having a winding on the core itself. But there is nothing mentioned here about starting each layer at the same end as here: The page I saw about double winding didn't say anything about kickback voltages. It simply said to wind 2 wires at the same time and connect them in seires so it is treated as 1 coil and that it worked better. But I don't recall what it said about how it worked better

Offline Freedomfuel

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2005, 10:58:26 PM »
Lightwave has really made some interesting comments but I do not have time now to reply to what he has written.  It seems that he is the only person on these forums who comes clse to my point of view.  Great minds think alike huh?

Offline overunity64

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Re: double wound and cone shaped coils
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 02:04:48 AM »
The Neogen is here:

Offline Nali2001

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