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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Peacemaker on July 10, 2007, 12:09:23 AM

Title: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 10, 2007, 12:09:23 AM
Hello Peace lovers,

Please look at the jpg. and tell me if the design can be an effective motor.

I am having dificulty verifying that my coil is a magnetic field.

Please look at the orientation of the axis of the magnet relative to the circumferance of the coil. Note that the axis is parallel to the rotation of the coil.  Does the axis have to be perpendicular to the coil?

Also, is the kind of wire I am using alright? I am using 50 ft. of 14 gauge pvc inslated copper wire.  What is the best wire, insulation and lenght?

What is the best initial power source?  Do I need fancy equipment like big car batteries and capacitors?

See attached jpeg.

Thanks,
The PeaceMAker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Eddy Currentz on July 10, 2007, 06:50:26 AM
Hello Peace lovers,

Please look at the jpg. and tell me if the design can be an effective motor.

I am having dificulty verifying that my coil is a magnetic field.
It will only produce a magnetic field proportional to the amount of current you run through it.

Quote
Please look at the orientation of the axis of the magnet relative to the circumferance of the coil. Note that the axis is parallel to the rotation of the coil.  Does the axis have to be perpendicular to the coil?
Yes. It won't turn the way you have it drawn.

Quote
Also, is the kind of wire I am using alright? I am using 50 ft. of 14 gauge pvc inslated copper wire.  What is the best wire, insulation and lenght?
Try at least 1000 feet of 20 ga magnet wire. The more wire the better.
It will run on 10 feet of wire if you put enough power to the coil. However, the point with this motor is to get more back than you put in. To do that you need lots of wire.

Quote
What is the best initial power source?  Do I need fancy equipment like big car batteries and capacitors?
You'll need the car battery if you only use 50 feet of 14ga wire. I wrapped my motor with about 3000' feet of 20 ga and ran it for 10 hours on a little 9 volt alkaline battery. I expect to do much better than that once I tune it up.
The fun part is building the commutator.

What's with the ABS?


Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 10, 2007, 07:55:34 PM
Thanks a lot Eddy you were very helpful. 

What is a commutator and how do I build it?  What is the significance of this part of the machine.

I redesigned my machine and got a little more action.  I verified that I created a magnetic field.  The magnet inside went from loose to straight up and down.  But it would not rotate.  In fact, it resists movement when the current is running through the coil.

I will post another diagram shortly. 

Where can I get the wire you suggested for cheap.  How about good magnets like permanent earth magnets?  And what about a good spinning axle with bearings and stuff.

I chose ABS because it is cheap and easy to manipulate (cut, drill, glue & mold).

What do you reccommend.  Where can I find a good schematic of a Newman Machine and step by step instructions and a list of good material.

Thanks again,
The PeaceMaker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Eddy Currentz on July 11, 2007, 02:04:00 AM
I admire your spirit but you don't know anything about motors do you.  ;)
Well, this is about as simple a motor as you will ever make.
This motor works on the principal of pulsed DC current. Once every revolution, at the same place in that revolution, the coil is "pulsed" with current for some short period of time (less than a quarter turn). This creates a magnetic field through the middle of the coil which interacts with the field of the permanent magnet. The permanent magnet will then rotate to align itself with the coil field. That is where the work is extracted.
The timing of this pulse is very important. If the coil is pulsed when the magnet is aligned with the field, no rotation will occur. Therefore, we want to time the pulse so the magnet is at around 90 degrees offset to the plane of the coil.
When we pulse the coil at that angle, the magnet will turn one way or another according to the polarity of the pulse. Before the magnet gets aligned with the coil we cut off the current. This allows the magnet to continue rotating past the alignment point and around to 90 degrees again where we then pulse it once more.
The commutator is a device that allows you to pulse the coil at the same particular point in the rotation. This device can be as simple as a bare spot on the shaft with a piece of wire rubbing to make a contact.
Look at some of the machines in this forum for ideas. Also study the pictures to get a better idea of the geometry of these motors.

Ted
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 03:03:24 AM
Hello Peace lovers,

Please look at the jpg. and tell me if the design can be an effective motor.

I am having dificulty verifying that my coil is a magnetic field.

Please look at the orientation of the axis of the magnet relative to the circumferance of the coil. Note that the axis is parallel to the rotation of the coil.  Does the axis have to be perpendicular to the coil?

Also, is the kind of wire I am using alright? I am using 50 ft. of 14 gauge pvc inslated copper wire.  What is the best wire, insulation and lenght?

What is the best initial power source?  Do I need fancy equipment like big car batteries and capacitors?

See attached jpeg.

Thanks,
The PeaceMAker

Hi PeaceMAker,
you have the coil and rotor not setup right.
One piece of them must be positioned turned by 90 degrees to get it to work.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 11, 2007, 07:06:04 AM
Hey all,

I have another diagram that approximates my machine.

I need help understanding how to build the commutator.

I understand that I need a wire contacting the shaft(rotating steel axle with magnets attached), but where does the other end go.

If someone could explain exactly how the commutator would work with my diagram that would be great.

Thanks Eddy, your post was again very helpful but I am still a bit lost.  You are right I am a complete layman.

Where can I find a scematic that is clear on the commutator?

Thanks,
PeaceMaker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 08:17:12 AM
Hi,
cut the yellow connection to the minus pole of the battery and instead connect the red wire to the minuspole.
Then connect the other end of the red wire to the conducting axis (rod) loosely, so the axis can slip
rotate with it.

Now let the free coil end wire slip connect to the shaft over a taped portion at the end ofthe shaft.
So you only connect the coil to the battery for say 30 degrees of rotation of the shaft.
The other 330 degrees are taped out, where the coil wire does not make any connection
to the battery.
So the coil only gets a pulse every 330 degrees for 30 degrees.
These 30 degrees must be put this way, that it is the optimal angle to
accelerate the magnet inside the coil, so it gets the most mechanical output power.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 11, 2007, 09:07:54 AM
Hey Freehumans,

Wow.  You all are geniuses!!  I feel like Neo from the matrix when he exclaimed, "I know Kung Fu!" 

The machine is amazing.

What do I do next?  I want to power all of my appliances, my computer, and my entire domicile (lights, etc...).

I want to make an engine for a semi truck that can accelerate and reach high yet safe speeds. 

What do I need to do to get that kind of torque?

Thanks,
PeaceMaker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 09:12:53 AM
Big magnets and lots of copper for the coil(s) and high voltage power supply.
Also you can go 4 or 8 pole with more coils and more  magnet poles.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 11, 2007, 06:19:44 PM
Thanks Stefan,

You have been very helpful, but can you explain that last comment in more detail please?

Big magnets and lots of copper for the coil(s) and high voltage power supply.
Also you can go 4 or 8 pole with more coils and more  magnet poles.

I am serious about powering my appliances AND the Semi truck.

What are the equations? 
How much wire? 
How large a magnet? 
What kind of magnet?  (earth magnets???)
What kind of power supply?
How much voltage?

I think I understand that you are saying there are magnets with more than just two poles.  I get that...more efficiency.

I think I understand what you mean by more coils, but I am not sure how to orient them.  A picture would help with that. 

Is three coils per magnet pole the most efficient combination?

Boy the comutator for that kind of device must be difficult to build and cause to run efficiently on its own.  Any suggestion?  Again, pictures are worth a thousand words.

So with eight poles is that 12 coils, or 24, or more?

Where do I get such a magnet?

I know I am asking for a lot of info.  I appreciate all of the help.

For starters I am going to build a machine that can power a few of my household appliances.

What kind of wire should I purchase?
Power supply?  Magnets? Dimensions of whole machine?

Lastly, what about the machine that uses only permanent magnets arranged in a particular way, how do I make that?  How does it work?  Is it better than creating electromagnets?

Thanks a bundle,
PeaceMaker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Eddy Currentz on July 11, 2007, 10:27:30 PM
Whoa there pardner, don't get ahead of yourself. It ain't that easy.
These motors are fine for running a little fan blade, but don't count on running much else without a major expenditure. Forget about running a truck with it.
These motors as we are building them here have almost no torque. They barely manage to run themselves and recharge the battery. This is not some miracle motor.
You really should just build a small one to get some idea of what you're dealing with. Learn about motors and how they work. Read about different types of motors on this board and others before you commit to a big project.
You will have to learn because there are no plans, that I am aware of, for what you want. You will have to design and build it yourself.
Don't give up though. It is just going to take a little longer than you thought to get there. Learning is the fun part anyway.

Ted
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: potatogunman on July 12, 2007, 01:32:24 AM
yes!!  Baby steps!!!   Its not a cheep hobby either
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: potatogunman on July 12, 2007, 01:44:55 AM
would adding a heavy weight add turning torque?  I  guess if you scaled up the newman machine's size  by using a 3/4 inch shaft and massive neo magnets Lots & lots ;D of Wire   i guess it would run one of those 5000 watt  pully  driven generator
am I wrong ?    maybe I am  oh well ;D  lol
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: potatogunman on July 12, 2007, 01:45:57 AM
the weight i was talking about is in the drawing
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Eddy Currentz on July 12, 2007, 03:17:40 AM
would adding a heavy weight add turning torque?  I  guess if you scaled up the newman machine's size  by using a 3/4 inch shaft and massive neo magnets Lots & lots ;D of Wire   i guess it would run one of those 5000 watt  pully  driven generator
am I wrong ?    maybe I am  oh well ;D  lol
You can make it as big as you want. The problem is that it is not the most efficient torque generator. Like Stefan said, you would have to add more coils at different angles and increase the voltage. And that would only be the start.
There are other motor designs that might be much more efficient. You really have to determine what kind of power you need and how you are going to use it. Are you charging batteries, turning a generator or running a pump? The motor has to fit into the total system.
I would encourage building a small motor to become familiar with how this type of machine operates. Newman hypes these motors up to sound like they will provide all the power you'll ever need. Have you seen how huge his motors are.
A rotoverter is an excellent choice for an efficient motor that is very easy to build.

Ted
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Peacemaker on July 12, 2007, 11:10:51 PM
Hey all,

Stefan, are you able to give me the info I requested in my last post?

Ted, tell more about the rotoverter engine.  Schematic???

I need to get torgue.

What about the geometric orientation of the magnets in the permanant magnet generator?

Peace,
PeaceMaker
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: naby on July 16, 2007, 11:43:04 PM
Hi,
cut the yellow connection to the minus pole of the battery and instead connect the red wire to the minuspole.
Then connect the other end of the red wire to the conducting axis (rod) loosely, so the axis can slip
rotate with it.

Now let the free coil end wire slip connect to the shaft over a taped portion at the end ofthe shaft.
So you only connect the coil to the battery for say 30 degrees of rotation of the shaft.
The other 330 degrees are taped out, where the coil wire does not make any connection
to the battery.
So the coil only gets a pulse every 330 degrees for 30 degrees.
These 30 degrees must be put this way, that it is the optimal angle to
accelerate the magnet inside the coil, so it gets the most mechanical output power.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

so let me see if i get this straight

electricity runs from the battery through the wire coil only for 30 degrees and this induces magnetic field that pulses the magnet giving him kinetic energy...
the magnet rotates the rest of 330 degrees by inertia, im assuming that in this time he is inducing electricity in the wire coil to give it back into the battery, the electricity that is generated in 330 degree spin by the magnet is greater then the electricity used in 30 degree spin...

is this right?

so during the 30 degree spin electricity is used from the battery and during the 330 degree spin electricity is generated in a higher amount then the one used from the battery ?

i dont understand how does the electricity from the coil induced by the magnet in 330 degree spin is pushed back in the battery when there is only one connection from the coil to the battery during this portion of the spin?

am i missing something, because sometimes i miss the obvious things

can you please explain the principles to more detail or show me a link to this

Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 17, 2007, 01:25:29 AM

Stefan, are you able to give me the info I requested in my last post?

Ted, tell more about the rotoverter engine.  Schematic???



Please look into the rotoverter board topics.
Thanks.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 17, 2007, 01:32:03 AM
Hi,
cut the yellow connection to the minus pole of the battery and instead connect the red wire to the minuspole.
Then connect the other end of the red wire to the conducting axis (rod) loosely, so the axis can slip
rotate with it.

Now let the free coil end wire slip connect to the shaft over a taped portion at the end ofthe shaft.
So you only connect the coil to the battery for say 30 degrees of rotation of the shaft.
The other 330 degrees are taped out, where the coil wire does not make any connection
to the battery.
So the coil only gets a pulse every 330 degrees for 30 degrees.
These 30 degrees must be put this way, that it is the optimal angle to
accelerate the magnet inside the coil, so it gets the most mechanical output power.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

so let me see if i get this straight

electricity runs from the battery through the wire coil only for 30 degrees and this induces magnetic field that pulses the magnet giving him kinetic energy...
the magnet rotates the rest of 330 degrees by inertia, im assuming that in this time he is inducing electricity in the wire coil to give it back into the battery, the electricity that is generated in 330 degree spin by the magnet is greater then the electricity used in 30 degree spin...

is this right?

so during the 30 degree spin electricity is used from the battery and during the 330 degree spin electricity is generated in a higher amount then the one used from the battery ?

i dont understand how does the electricity from the coil induced by the magnet in 330 degree spin is pushed back in the battery when there is only one connection from the coil to the battery during this portion of the spin?

am i missing something, because sometimes i miss the obvious things

can you please explain the principles to more detail or show me a link to this



Hi during the 330 degrees there happens nothing but the magnet is just rotating due to
its inertia.
Then the commutator makes conatct again then there is a big back current spike and also,
when the commutator switches off the coil from the battery and a spark jumps the few degrees
the commutator has rotated already ahead, so the spark jumps back to the
commutator plates and can push the high voltage via the spark back to the battery.

Due to the high number of turns on your coil you have a very big  Back EMF voltage at the coil,
when the commutator switches the coil off from the battery.
So this voltage is high enough to jump the distance and push the voltage pulse back to the battery.
As this Back EMF induction voltage is much higher than the battery voltage,
the current is negative ( back to the battery)
and it recharges the battery.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: naby on July 17, 2007, 03:23:13 AM
thx

right

so the magnet is actually inducing voltage in the coil during the 330 degree area, and transfers that electricity via sparks,and this process is for some reason more then 100% efficient

awesome , its so great you can induce high voltage with high number of coils without the need for increased power.

reminds me of semi conductors principle, one way pass, very nifty.

ok questions:

1) What if wire end from the coil was linked to a broader metal plate , placed around or near the commutator so that electric field between commutator and metal plate was stronger so that the spark can jump more often and more easily.Would that increase the energy transfer  into the battery, or make it any easier?

2)what if i put electro magnet with direct current from the same battery instead of permanent magnet.
i think electromagnets would give much stronger magnetic field on larger devices then normal magnets?

and there is one more question that is bothering me
3)How do i know that the energy output is not just the energy from the magnetic field of the permanent magnet. If it is , this would be a machine that only utilities the energy that is stored in magnetic field. How do i know that this machine is really tapping some unknown energy source?
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: potatogunman on July 17, 2007, 04:24:35 PM
would'nt   electro manget   consume more energy.......  i   would try Neo magnet  they are stronger....but more expensive :-\
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 17, 2007, 05:55:54 PM
Electromagnets are not so good,cause they need additional power
and the modern Neodym magnets are cheap and powerful enough.

The magnet fields of the coil(s) are too weak to affect the fields
of the magnets so they will last very long !

Also if you design the commutator right,so that it does work on attraction
rather than an repellation the magnets will last forever.


You can run such a coil-magnet combination more as an electrical  generator or
more as a motor.
It depends on the phase angle, when you switch on the coil to the battery versus
the magnet position angle inside the coil.

If you put this phase angle this way, that you connect the battery to the coil
when the magnet induces higher positive voltage  than the battery voltage,
then if you make contact again at this point this higher positive voltage will
recharge the battery.

Also when the coil switches off and the BACK EMF induction voltage occurs
and the spark jumps, the rotating magnet helps to induce even a stronger
and higher voltage then due to its inertia, so the BACK EMF voltage will
stay longer on and this will produce a more powerful spark.

So all in all, this phase angle from magnet postion inside coil
versus commutator firing timing
is important to tune the machine for maxium torque
or for maximum Electrical output via BackEMF pulses.

So you have to decide, if you go for maximum torque
to propell a mechanical load or go for
maximum BackEMF pulses, that recharge your batteries.

I would suggest trying better to go for
maximum BackEMF pulses, where the magnet rotates slower
and the motor has lower torque.

This way you can light up an incandescent bulb put in series
with the batteries before going to the commutator and coil
via the BACKEMF pulses.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 17, 2007, 06:12:32 PM
The difference between a Newman motor/generator and a normal DC motor is:

In a normal DC motor the counter EMF induction voltage from the
moving magnet rotor  inside a coil stator is always smaller than the supplied
battery voltage.

In a Newman motor due to the high turn number coil and the use of
Back EMF voltage pulses, these pulse voltages are always much higher
than the battery voltage and thus it will recharge the battery.

The more pulses you have per revolution, the better it is.
So you can design the commutator also this way, that it
makes contact several time per revolution.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: naby on July 18, 2007, 09:07:29 PM
hm it appears i did not understand you correctly the first time

so i actually get energy fed back to the battery only on 2 occasions, during the sparking when i connect and disconnect the battery with the coil at the start and the end of 30 degree part? And during the 330 degree part no sparking is present?

can you give me some examples of angles where machine produces more torque and some examples of angles with more battery charging?

if the machine has more torque, isn't the faster spinning going to produce more voltage in the coil and recharge the battery better?

1 more question

if magnet generates more electricity from turning then it requires for him to turn why isn't the battery connected all the time?
When magnet field of the magnet causes more voltage then the battery,it should recharge the battery, when the magnet turns at such an angle so that it causes less voltage then the battery voltage , the battery should power the magnet and turn it, and overall output should be greater then 100%?
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Jason on July 23, 2007, 03:30:31 AM
Quote
The more pulses you have per revolution, the better it is.
So you can design the commutator also this way, that it
makes contact several time per revolution.


So what you are saying Stefan is that you can have more pulses yet still be in the 30% pulse range? Or are you saying forget the 30% and pulsate more frequently?

I am going to try and build a generator to power my house with this Newman design. I live very simple so I do not have to have mass quantities of power. I thought that I could put a meter on the wall and when the power in the batteries are getting low, hit the switch to recharge. I see a few people downing this design but so far this is the only one that is simple enough for me to tackle. If I can get enough rpm and torque to power a generator from this design, what else do I need? My only concern is finding some big magnets and maintaining magnetization. Thanks, Jason
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Jason on July 23, 2007, 03:36:13 AM
Correction 30 degree not 30% .
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: hartiberlin on July 23, 2007, 03:48:40 AM
Jason,
I meant not have it full on the whole 30 degrees, but pulsing it during
these 30 degrees.

For the same torque output you will need then higher
input voltages but you get a lot more RF bursts this way.

You can also energize the coil
from the battery for around 100 degrees,like
10 steps x  10 degrees.
So 5 degrees on and 5 degrees off
would be one step.

Repeat this 10 times,so you have 100 degrees.
The rest 260 degrees of the circle the coil will not be energized.

Put this 100 degrees connect-disconnect commutator into a zone,
where the coil attracts or repells the magnet the most and you will
have contineous rotation and many RF burst spikes,
which can pretty easily light up incandescent bulbs in series
with the coil.


Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Jason on July 24, 2007, 02:51:36 PM
Stefan,
I am going to investigate whether a electric fence commutator will work. They pulsate, I just do not know if I could figure out a way to accelerate the pulsation. One idea I had was to fix a flexible bearing next to the magnet rod which has the commutator connected to it. Then on the rod attach little wires all around it. Do you know what motors or machines have large magnets in them? I want to go to a junk yard or industrial yard to find some huge magnets to build a motor with more torque. Another quick question. Do you know where I can get a simple breakdown in dummy terms of the rotoverter? Thanks, Jason
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Magnethos on April 01, 2008, 09:35:03 PM
I have a question about the motor and the position of the magnets:

What is the correct model? A or B?

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4417/magnetspositionmm2.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetspositionmm2.jpg)
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Chad on April 01, 2008, 10:11:55 PM
@magnethos

Model "B" is the correct configuration.

Chad.
Title: Re: help with my Newman machine
Post by: Magnethos on April 01, 2008, 10:46:16 PM
chad
Where I must put the wires?
Where the positive? where the negative?

Positive in the axle? negative where?