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Author Topic: help with my Newman machine  (Read 18781 times)

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2007, 11:10:51 PM »
Hey all,

Stefan, are you able to give me the info I requested in my last post?

Ted, tell more about the rotoverter engine.  Schematic???

I need to get torgue.

What about the geometric orientation of the magnets in the permanant magnet generator?

Peace,
PeaceMaker

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2007, 11:10:51 PM »

Offline naby

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 11:43:04 PM »
Hi,
cut the yellow connection to the minus pole of the battery and instead connect the red wire to the minuspole.
Then connect the other end of the red wire to the conducting axis (rod) loosely, so the axis can slip
rotate with it.

Now let the free coil end wire slip connect to the shaft over a taped portion at the end ofthe shaft.
So you only connect the coil to the battery for say 30 degrees of rotation of the shaft.
The other 330 degrees are taped out, where the coil wire does not make any connection
to the battery.
So the coil only gets a pulse every 330 degrees for 30 degrees.
These 30 degrees must be put this way, that it is the optimal angle to
accelerate the magnet inside the coil, so it gets the most mechanical output power.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

so let me see if i get this straight

electricity runs from the battery through the wire coil only for 30 degrees and this induces magnetic field that pulses the magnet giving him kinetic energy...
the magnet rotates the rest of 330 degrees by inertia, im assuming that in this time he is inducing electricity in the wire coil to give it back into the battery, the electricity that is generated in 330 degree spin by the magnet is greater then the electricity used in 30 degree spin...

is this right?

so during the 30 degree spin electricity is used from the battery and during the 330 degree spin electricity is generated in a higher amount then the one used from the battery ?

i dont understand how does the electricity from the coil induced by the magnet in 330 degree spin is pushed back in the battery when there is only one connection from the coil to the battery during this portion of the spin?

am i missing something, because sometimes i miss the obvious things

can you please explain the principles to more detail or show me a link to this


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 01:25:29 AM »

Stefan, are you able to give me the info I requested in my last post?

Ted, tell more about the rotoverter engine.  Schematic???



Please look into the rotoverter board topics.
Thanks.

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 01:25:29 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2007, 01:32:03 AM »
Hi,
cut the yellow connection to the minus pole of the battery and instead connect the red wire to the minuspole.
Then connect the other end of the red wire to the conducting axis (rod) loosely, so the axis can slip
rotate with it.

Now let the free coil end wire slip connect to the shaft over a taped portion at the end ofthe shaft.
So you only connect the coil to the battery for say 30 degrees of rotation of the shaft.
The other 330 degrees are taped out, where the coil wire does not make any connection
to the battery.
So the coil only gets a pulse every 330 degrees for 30 degrees.
These 30 degrees must be put this way, that it is the optimal angle to
accelerate the magnet inside the coil, so it gets the most mechanical output power.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

so let me see if i get this straight

electricity runs from the battery through the wire coil only for 30 degrees and this induces magnetic field that pulses the magnet giving him kinetic energy...
the magnet rotates the rest of 330 degrees by inertia, im assuming that in this time he is inducing electricity in the wire coil to give it back into the battery, the electricity that is generated in 330 degree spin by the magnet is greater then the electricity used in 30 degree spin...

is this right?

so during the 30 degree spin electricity is used from the battery and during the 330 degree spin electricity is generated in a higher amount then the one used from the battery ?

i dont understand how does the electricity from the coil induced by the magnet in 330 degree spin is pushed back in the battery when there is only one connection from the coil to the battery during this portion of the spin?

am i missing something, because sometimes i miss the obvious things

can you please explain the principles to more detail or show me a link to this



Hi during the 330 degrees there happens nothing but the magnet is just rotating due to
its inertia.
Then the commutator makes conatct again then there is a big back current spike and also,
when the commutator switches off the coil from the battery and a spark jumps the few degrees
the commutator has rotated already ahead, so the spark jumps back to the
commutator plates and can push the high voltage via the spark back to the battery.

Due to the high number of turns on your coil you have a very big  Back EMF voltage at the coil,
when the commutator switches the coil off from the battery.
So this voltage is high enough to jump the distance and push the voltage pulse back to the battery.
As this Back EMF induction voltage is much higher than the battery voltage,
the current is negative ( back to the battery)
and it recharges the battery.

Offline naby

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2007, 03:23:13 AM »
thx

right

so the magnet is actually inducing voltage in the coil during the 330 degree area, and transfers that electricity via sparks,and this process is for some reason more then 100% efficient

awesome , its so great you can induce high voltage with high number of coils without the need for increased power.

reminds me of semi conductors principle, one way pass, very nifty.

ok questions:

1) What if wire end from the coil was linked to a broader metal plate , placed around or near the commutator so that electric field between commutator and metal plate was stronger so that the spark can jump more often and more easily.Would that increase the energy transfer  into the battery, or make it any easier?

2)what if i put electro magnet with direct current from the same battery instead of permanent magnet.
i think electromagnets would give much stronger magnetic field on larger devices then normal magnets?

and there is one more question that is bothering me
3)How do i know that the energy output is not just the energy from the magnetic field of the permanent magnet. If it is , this would be a machine that only utilities the energy that is stored in magnetic field. How do i know that this machine is really tapping some unknown energy source?

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2007, 03:23:13 AM »
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Offline potatogunman

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2007, 04:24:35 PM »
would'nt   electro manget   consume more energy.......  i   would try Neo magnet  they are stronger....but more expensive :-\

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 05:55:54 PM »
Electromagnets are not so good,cause they need additional power
and the modern Neodym magnets are cheap and powerful enough.

The magnet fields of the coil(s) are too weak to affect the fields
of the magnets so they will last very long !

Also if you design the commutator right,so that it does work on attraction
rather than an repellation the magnets will last forever.


You can run such a coil-magnet combination more as an electrical  generator or
more as a motor.
It depends on the phase angle, when you switch on the coil to the battery versus
the magnet position angle inside the coil.

If you put this phase angle this way, that you connect the battery to the coil
when the magnet induces higher positive voltage  than the battery voltage,
then if you make contact again at this point this higher positive voltage will
recharge the battery.

Also when the coil switches off and the BACK EMF induction voltage occurs
and the spark jumps, the rotating magnet helps to induce even a stronger
and higher voltage then due to its inertia, so the BACK EMF voltage will
stay longer on and this will produce a more powerful spark.

So all in all, this phase angle from magnet postion inside coil
versus commutator firing timing
is important to tune the machine for maxium torque
or for maximum Electrical output via BackEMF pulses.

So you have to decide, if you go for maximum torque
to propell a mechanical load or go for
maximum BackEMF pulses, that recharge your batteries.

I would suggest trying better to go for
maximum BackEMF pulses, where the magnet rotates slower
and the motor has lower torque.

This way you can light up an incandescent bulb put in series
with the batteries before going to the commutator and coil
via the BACKEMF pulses.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 05:55:54 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2007, 06:12:32 PM »
The difference between a Newman motor/generator and a normal DC motor is:

In a normal DC motor the counter EMF induction voltage from the
moving magnet rotor  inside a coil stator is always smaller than the supplied
battery voltage.

In a Newman motor due to the high turn number coil and the use of
Back EMF voltage pulses, these pulse voltages are always much higher
than the battery voltage and thus it will recharge the battery.

The more pulses you have per revolution, the better it is.
So you can design the commutator also this way, that it
makes contact several time per revolution.

Offline naby

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 09:07:29 PM »
hm it appears i did not understand you correctly the first time

so i actually get energy fed back to the battery only on 2 occasions, during the sparking when i connect and disconnect the battery with the coil at the start and the end of 30 degree part? And during the 330 degree part no sparking is present?

can you give me some examples of angles where machine produces more torque and some examples of angles with more battery charging?

if the machine has more torque, isn't the faster spinning going to produce more voltage in the coil and recharge the battery better?

1 more question

if magnet generates more electricity from turning then it requires for him to turn why isn't the battery connected all the time?
When magnet field of the magnet causes more voltage then the battery,it should recharge the battery, when the magnet turns at such an angle so that it causes less voltage then the battery voltage , the battery should power the magnet and turn it, and overall output should be greater then 100%?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 09:45:13 PM by naby »

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 09:07:29 PM »
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Offline Jason

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2007, 03:30:31 AM »
Quote
The more pulses you have per revolution, the better it is.
So you can design the commutator also this way, that it
makes contact several time per revolution.


So what you are saying Stefan is that you can have more pulses yet still be in the 30% pulse range? Or are you saying forget the 30% and pulsate more frequently?

I am going to try and build a generator to power my house with this Newman design. I live very simple so I do not have to have mass quantities of power. I thought that I could put a meter on the wall and when the power in the batteries are getting low, hit the switch to recharge. I see a few people downing this design but so far this is the only one that is simple enough for me to tackle. If I can get enough rpm and torque to power a generator from this design, what else do I need? My only concern is finding some big magnets and maintaining magnetization. Thanks, Jason
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 03:49:02 AM by hartiberlin »

Offline Jason

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2007, 03:36:13 AM »
Correction 30 degree not 30% .

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2007, 03:36:13 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2007, 03:48:40 AM »
Jason,
I meant not have it full on the whole 30 degrees, but pulsing it during
these 30 degrees.

For the same torque output you will need then higher
input voltages but you get a lot more RF bursts this way.

You can also energize the coil
from the battery for around 100 degrees,like
10 steps x  10 degrees.
So 5 degrees on and 5 degrees off
would be one step.

Repeat this 10 times,so you have 100 degrees.
The rest 260 degrees of the circle the coil will not be energized.

Put this 100 degrees connect-disconnect commutator into a zone,
where the coil attracts or repells the magnet the most and you will
have contineous rotation and many RF burst spikes,
which can pretty easily light up incandescent bulbs in series
with the coil.



Offline Jason

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2007, 02:51:36 PM »
Stefan,
I am going to investigate whether a electric fence commutator will work. They pulsate, I just do not know if I could figure out a way to accelerate the pulsation. One idea I had was to fix a flexible bearing next to the magnet rod which has the commutator connected to it. Then on the rod attach little wires all around it. Do you know what motors or machines have large magnets in them? I want to go to a junk yard or industrial yard to find some huge magnets to build a motor with more torque. Another quick question. Do you know where I can get a simple breakdown in dummy terms of the rotoverter? Thanks, Jason

Offline Magnethos

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2008, 09:35:03 PM »
I have a question about the motor and the position of the magnets:

What is the correct model? A or B?

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4417/magnetspositionmm2.th.jpg)

Offline Chad

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Re: help with my Newman machine
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2008, 10:11:55 PM »
@magnethos

Model "B" is the correct configuration.

Chad.

 

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