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Author Topic: A question about permanent magnets !.  (Read 6213 times)

Offline Bulbz

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A question about permanent magnets !.
« on: July 07, 2007, 01:54:59 AM »
I'm a bit in the dark with this question. I'm still scratching my beard quite a lot because of this (or whatever is left of my beard, anyway :-O). How much energy does it actually require to manufacture a neodymium magnet.

I've looked all over the web, and if I have to scratch my beard any longer, I will end up having to scratch whatever is left of the hair on the rest of my head. As you can probably guess, I'm truly puzzled.

Thanks in advance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline IronHead

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2007, 03:19:38 AM »
I am not certain , but if you consider the energy stored . The hundreds or thousands of years these things might operate would far out weigh any manufacturing energy consumption .

So build on Magnet motor builders/researchers
IronHead

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 04:36:46 AM »
I'm not an expert on the subject of magnetization, but there is info available on the net that gives the process.

In general however, if you have a coil around the raw magnet material, and energize the coil to such a level that it fully "saturates" the material, the remnant magnetism will be slightly less than what was used to magnetize the material.

In fact, it is common practice to slightly "demagnetize" the sample after full magnetization to improve stability and repeatability.

So, in the end, the strength of the magnetizing field, will have to be somewhat greater than what is remaining in the magnet after the process.

If you know the gauss rating of your magnet, you will have an idea of what was used to magnetize it.

Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 04:36:46 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 04:47:51 AM »
I think "Bulbz is asking about the entire process . From mining , extraction, purification ,forming ,hydrogen annealing and finally magnetizing of the processed magnet . A very complex and rather extensive calculation if you include the human labor as well. But then again it is not that much different than steel or lets say something  more rare, Titanium and the Titanium alloy process .

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 05:08:19 AM »
Hmm, he didn't specify, so I assumed he meant from the magnetization point of view.

A magnetic field is the output or end result, and I assumed he wanted to know how much "magnetism" went into making it, vs. how much we get back from the magnet, and for how long.

The magnetization process takes only a few seconds, yet the magnet could work for hundreds of years.

So to me, that is the pertinent comparison, and the only one that interests me anyway.

Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 05:08:19 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2007, 05:15:31 AM »
''manufacture a neodymium magnet" was the key words I  deduced my assumption from.

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 05:38:57 AM »
''manufacture a neodymium magnet" was the key words I  deduced my assumption from.

IronHead.

I see your point too.

It could be interpreted both ways actually.

Perhaps Bulbz will shed some light on what he meant exactly.  :)

Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 05:38:57 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 06:05:29 AM »
Does not matter, I have no answers.

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 06:12:36 AM »
Does not matter, I have no answers.

On the contrary IronHead.

If Bulbz says that indeed he meant the entire process from material manufacture etc, as you stated, then your answer above is the correct one:

It is difficult if not impossible to put a number on it.

Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 06:12:36 AM »
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Offline Bulbz

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 03:02:33 PM »
''manufacture a neodymium magnet" was the key words I  deduced my assumption from.

IronHead.

I see your point too.

It could be interpreted both ways actually.

Perhaps Bulbz will shed some light on what he meant exactly.  :)

Darren

Yes, I will shed more light on the subject. I am a strong believer in harnessing power from magnets, but I remember reading an article somewhere on the net, and can not remember which site I read it on.

Some skeptic stated "You will never get free energy, and it takes more to charge the magnets than you can harness from them !". Then he added "You also have to consider the other processes". I think he means stuff like producing heat for the sintering process, and cutting the cores into shape and all that.

Now... My answer to the skeptic is... A magnet can last for thousands of years, am I correct ?. But surely it can not take thousands of years to manufacture a magnet. And if the skeptic thinks that it takes that much energy to make a magnet, just how big does he think the manufacturers annual energy bill is ?. Is the skeptic trying to say, that the manufacturer squeezes thousands of years worth of energy, into a single magnet ?.

Personally... I think that the Powers That Be and the Skeptics should go and take their oil, and go and boil their heads with it. That's one of my more softer messages to the secret governments ;).

Offline Paul-R

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 04:12:51 PM »
This is a most interesting debate. If it were feasable to magnetise
and de-magnetise "on the fly", and even re-magnetise N-S to S-N
"on the fly", then a whole range of new magnet motors
might become possible. I think we need to try to find a
manufacturer of Neos, and they tend to be Chinese. But they will
probably shame us by speaking fluent English.

These people seem to be suggesting magnetising by discharging a
capacitor:
http://www.walkerldjscientific.com/Products/Product_Lines/Magnetizing_Stations/Magnetizers/magnetizers.html
A job for Monday morning.
Paul.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 04:12:51 PM »
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Offline JamesThomas

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2007, 06:06:28 PM »
Perhaps many people think that a magnet is like a battery which stores energy given it by the manufacturing process which would use more energy initially than returned. It is my understanding that this is not at all the case. It is more like the manufacturing process aligns the atomical structure within the material allowing for the new magnet to be a magnetic-engine unto itself. We get back way more than we put in as the magnetic force is intrinsic within the atoms themselves....they just need to be lined up in such a way as to allow them to flow.

j

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2007, 06:30:11 PM »
I believe the very same thing J.

As entropy would have it though, all those little magnets and domains will eventually go back to their random alignment.

It's just a matter of time, and dependant on the external conditions the magnet experiences over its lifetime. In some cases, many of us will die before our neos do.

Darren

Offline IronHead

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Re: A question about permanent magnets !.
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2007, 09:16:23 PM »
There have been many cases of magnetic run down . So even if the magnet were to last say only a few months a simple charging coil can be built into an apparatus recharging (Block wall alignment ) the magnet in a few seconds with  a small amount of energy stored from its  prior output would solve this problem .
So again even in the case of "run down" these magnets will out last the user .

 

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