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Author Topic: Power Control Circuit Help  (Read 8908 times)

Offline Draco Rylos

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Power Control Circuit Help
« on: July 02, 2007, 12:31:40 AM »
I have been working on a circuit to control the running, and refilling of my cell, but have been hitting a brick wall. I have attached a rendering of the circuit as it stands now. I'm still having trouble getting it straightened out. I want it to turn on an LED warning that the level of water in the cell is low when it gets below the upper sensor and actuates a valve, turns on a pump and turns on another LED indicating the cell is refilling. That section is indicated by the empty area I have in the drawing. I was trying to use relays, but I have decided to use an IC to do the actual switching instead of relays. The little bit on the left side and below the main circuit is a plugin indicator circuit that shows the different functions of the cell.Can anyone recommend an IC to use to switch my circuit and help me get the circuit working right. When I get it drawn out completely, I will post it for everyone else to use for their cells.

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Power Control Circuit Help
« on: July 02, 2007, 12:31:40 AM »

Offline kentoot

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 04:19:00 AM »
I guess you could make some sort of simple water level controller, but there are already a lot of aquarium water level controller out there, maybe you can use one of those for your cell. Basically they use float sensor or pressure actuated sensor to detect the water level and then use those signals to turn ON/OFF the water pump.
Try search google on "aquarium water level controller".
 

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 03:11:57 AM »
I'm trying to keep the interior of the cell as simple as possible. the only openings in it will be the openings for the recirculation introduction of water in the cell, the 2 sensor openings, the power input, and the gas output. I want all my controls to be external to the cell.

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 03:11:57 AM »
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Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2007, 05:54:04 AM »
I've changed the drawing of the circuit a little to see if it would help clear up the inconsistancies in my original post. I have also included a drawing of my cell. Its still a bit raw, but you can see the basics of what my cell is going to look like when I get it built eventually. I want to do all the work on the control systems myself. I'm still wondering what IC would be good for the purposes of my idea.

Offline kentoot

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2007, 08:18:00 AM »
As I understand it, you want the pump to start working when the water level got below the upper sensor ? So the lower sensor is strictly for warning purposes ?
If you just use 1 upper sensor to both turn ON and OFF the pump, the pump will ON and OFF very quickly. A bit of water displacement will trigger the pump to ON/OFF.

To prevent the pump from oscillating (ON and OFF very quickly and continuously), you should use 2 sensors, located at 2 different level, for ON and OFF points of the pump. You use the upper sensor to turn OFF the pump, while using the lower sensor to ON the pump.

Please see attached the schematic. I designed it, but haven't test it out yet, so please be careful :). Also I welcome any correction.

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2007, 08:18:00 AM »
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Offline keithturtle

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2007, 08:38:04 AM »
Might be simpler to jes get a pump a bit bigger than needed, run a recirculation loop back to the reservior, and leave it on.  Use a metering valve(s) on a leg(s) with level actuated soleniod to add extra water as needed.

Simpler still would be to set hydraulic gradient so as to always have the water circulating, and HHO coming off in the same pipe (see IronHead's latest pics in H V HHO).

But then, I may not be addressing your specific needs in that  rant.

"Hie thee unto thy pond, you turtle!"

Keith

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 01:22:58 AM »
The Upper sensor will just turn on a warning light indicating low water level in the cell. Its the lower sensor that will turn the pump on. But the pump will not turn off until it reaches the upper sensor. I'm trying to figure out the level that will keep the electrodes immersed with water.

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 01:22:58 AM »
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Offline Aphasiac

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 01:35:00 AM »
@ Duke:

Am I missing something? Wouldn't the level be just slightly above the top of the plates?

Your drawing indicates the presence of a backflow preventor on the water supply line after the pump, at or near to the cell. This'll prevent hydrogen from flowing in the wrong direction and it'll also keep your line primed so there's water being supplied to the cell immediately. As soon as your sensor trips the pump, the level increases. No confusing math required!

Cheers, Mark. 

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 03:28:22 AM »
yes, but I want to keep water much higher in the cell than just over the top of the electrodes. The one way valves keep the water going into the cell from underneath the electrodes to help with the extraction of hydroxy from the cell.

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 03:28:22 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 03:37:02 AM »
Water levels much higher than the cell stack itself requires much higher amperage to run  for the same HHO output as  keeping the water level  near the cell stack surface. Water level is critical . This holds true in  series, parallel and concentric cell types.

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2007, 04:27:48 AM »
I did not know that Ironhead, thank you for informing me. My setup will be a two cell system. I am trying to design the circuit to control the pump and cell operation using 2 sensors that will also turn on a light when the water level in the cell gets low. I've got a lead of using an AND Gate and a NOR Gate, instead of the relays that I have in the drawing that was attached to an earlier post.

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2007, 04:27:48 AM »
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Offline kentoot

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2007, 06:17:51 AM »
Yes, you can use logic gates, such as AND and NOR gates, but only for the logic part. Those logic gate ICs can't drive your pump directly, you will still need a power component, like a power transistor or a relay or a MOSFET or a triac to drive your pump. As far as I know logic gate ICs alone won't do.

Offline IronHead

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2007, 06:27:15 PM »
The water itself is electrically charged . All you really need to do is have the positive side of an LED wired to the water itself and the negative to ground  when the level gets low the light goes out. If you want this to control another device  use a relay.

Or you can do a constant flow close loop system , run pump constant . With 4 LEDs connected to the water levels, when number 2 or 3 goes out its time to fill the main tank.

When you use constant flow the water always stays at  the right level to the cell stack as long as there is water in the system. Why  because the water is being pump through the cell to the top.This keeps amperage / HHO output stable. A 12 volt PC water cooling water pump will do the trick.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.800.html
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.840.html

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 07:54:53 PM »
Did you look at the drawing attached to an earlier post man, I have 2 pumps, one pushing water into the cell stack from the tank the other is a recirculation pump. The recirculation pump draws water in from the upper portion of the cell and pushes the water in from underneath the stack. That, I hope, will aid in the extraction of hydroxy from the cell stack. The recirculation pump will shut down when the water level in the cell gets below the upper water level sensor. The one way valves after the recirculation pump and after the refill pump keep the water from being pushed out of the cell by the recirculation pump. Those are good suggestions, but I still want to use the circuit that I have designed but have been having trouble figuring out how to the the pump to turn off only AFTER it reaches the upper water level sensor.

Offline IronHead

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Re: Power Control Circuit Help
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2007, 08:06:22 PM »
sorry man . It was just a simplifying suggestion.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 08:45:00 PM by IronHead »

 

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