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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 06:14:40 AM

Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 06:14:40 AM
Builders Replication Details of the silent brnbrade coil
Wattsup
Build replication details:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg38187.html#msg38187

A New Way To Wire The Coils:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg38714.html#msg38714

REPLICATION DETAILS of the brnbrade coil

Four variations have been shown thus far.

1) Coils + 3v Battery, DC-DC 58 vdc out.
2) Coils + 3v Battery + Sound (two channel positive only) DC-AC 250V out.
3) Coils + Cap (330 uf 200v) + Cap (62 pf or uf(hard to see) 400v about 4-7v ac out
4) Coils + 4 Caps (hard to see values) about 20v ac out

what kind of iron rods did you use ?
Iron 

2. Did you use alufoil or aluminium tubes around the coils ?
Alufoil

3.  I use aluminium varnishing

STEPS TO FOLLOW TO BUILD COIL LISTED BELOW!!
Yes,  Core -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> fine wire coil -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> Thick wire -> insulating -> enjoy!

How many turns of wire did you use ?

MacFarland mentions more wire more better the result.

In one posting was said 35 turns ?
In my device is 35 turns.
It can be more turns or less. I didn't play with this still.   

Is this the big red wire ?
Thick red wire 35 turns.

How many turns does the fine wire have ?
 ???  I do not know


Parts needed:
1.  Aluminum foil
2.  Iron or steel core (large spike, landscape nail, etc.  Be creative. :) )
3.  1/2" Aluminum Tubing
4.  Fine Wire -  Thin wire looks like 0.4 to 0.5mm diameter.
5.  Thick wire - Seems to be about #12 awg Solid.  Thicker is better.  Thick wire looks like single core from 13 Amp twin and earth ring main cable
6.  Aluminum varnish

How to Build
Step one - Take your iron core and insulate (with dielectric material-see picture it is painted on and is black.  you can see some scraped off of end.  What can we use?)

Step Two - Insert iron insulated core into aluminum tube

Step Three - Insulate aluminum tube (aluminium varnishing)

Step Four - Wrap fine wire (need awg. someone look at the picture,please!) around aluminum tube

Step Four - Insulate fine wire (aluminium varnishing)

Step Five - Wrap with aluminum foil

Step Six - Insulate foil (aluminium varnishing)

Step Seven - Wrap Thick wire

Step Eight - Insulate

Step Nine - Enjoy your OverUnity brnbrade Coil!

MAKE TWO IDENTICAL COILS

How to wire brnbrade Coils
Easy to follow Steps:
A.  Place both coils flat on table.  Place one coil above the other coil.
B.  Take the thin wire on the bottom left coil and connect to the thick wire of the top coil on the same side.
C.  Take the thin wire on the top left coil and connect to the thick wire on the bottom.
D.  Repeat steps B and C for the right side.  (This is called a Mobius)

Input whatever power you want to test.

REMEMBER the oscillations!  Stereo signal, opposing (sound familiar :o)
Pulse with your mosfet driver setup, signal generators, Walkman, whatever you want to test it with.

There, I have spelled it out.  If you want to draw a circuit I will add it here.  As well as information I have requested.

REMEMBER to test in a STRONG magnetic field.  Good results I think.

Post all results in this thread for others to learn from.  Thank you.

____________________________________________________________________________

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10404)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10401)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10402)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10403)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 01, 2007, 06:39:03 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 06:48:52 AM
So to check my understanding. He has 3 volts going in and 52 volts coming out. He hasn't been able to measure any current, AMPS.

Has he done anything that could act as a proxy to amp measurement ? e.g. The brightness of a light bulb ?

With the information available at the present this sounds like a step up transformer, in which case the small amps from the battery will be even smaller at the output ?

I'll keep an open mind until more information is available.

_______________________________

EDIT: Now that more information is available - the information in the first post was NOT there originally !! - and the subsequent linking to the Farland patent which also wasn't mentioned. I believe this device to show unusual, unexplained results.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 01, 2007, 07:00:53 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 07:06:50 AM
And with the sound pulses you read 250 volts!

What could cause that??

Did the voltage change with the beat of the music, or was it the same? 

Was the volume up or down when you tested?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 01, 2007, 07:18:12 AM
WOW! That looks a whole lot easier than the more common TPU design... Being that its not a torroid and all. I hope a schematic will be released soon. I'll definitely replicate this and attempt to confirm your results. Also I have the equipment needed to get a output wattage reading. Thanks for posting your findings here.

Good luck and thanks again,
~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 07:34:29 AM
Hey guys,

The pictures are pretty clear.  If someone would be kind enough to draw and post a circuit and aprox. wire sizes, and then post it for brnbrade, if would be helpful.

There are two identical coils it would seem, not one coil as I first thought from his original posts on EM's thread.

Also know that the big black round thing is a large magnet!

Thank you,
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 07:40:09 AM
It also looks like the thin wire is wired in mobius fashion on both ends.  If someone can confirm this looking at the picture?

Brnbrade, is there mobius on both ends?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 07:51:03 AM
There is a definate mobius on the thin wire on both ends.

Brnbrade was a student of Erfinder also. Brnbrade does not speak English well.

So we have coils
Large Magnet
oscillations
Mobius on both ends
DC Input / AC Output
Large voltage output
Unknown amperage

Brnbrade is going to hook up a light bulb, and take a picture.  He is also going to borrow an amp meter.  I do not know when this will be done.  I for one am facinated.

The red wire appears to be 12 awg solid.  The thin wire seems to be braided.  Someone else will need to give type and size.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Mannix on July 01, 2007, 07:58:28 AM
Bruce,

HMMMMMMMMMM........This ..in Steven marks tpu thread??


"that aint no tpu in there son ......I say it just aint!"

I like the fact that there is no digital meter....

Im looking foward to being completly surprised...No, astonished!

Lindsay Mannix

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 08:04:27 AM
I am being a helping soul.  :)  Besides, one never knows.

Also, not long ago, I heard a story of someone who put long waves into a coil and got a surprise.  I am just helping out.

Brn brades idea is to have several of these coils in a circle in ECD fashion. 

Besides Mannix, I am always looking for pieces for they add up to the sum. ;)

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: chrisC on July 01, 2007, 08:22:18 AM
Brnbrade & Bruce:

A couple of weeks ago, you had a set-up with a vertical large magnet positioned over the coils. What is the difference between what you showed to what is here? Can you please draw a simple circuit and some more information about the sound?
It does look a lot simpler than a TPU/ECD, deceptively simple.

Also where/how is the loop closed?

Thanks

chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 08:37:56 AM
Brnbrade & Bruce:

A couple of weeks ago, you had a set-up with a vertical large magnet positioned over the coils. What is the difference between what you showed to what is here? Can you please draw a simple circuit and some more information about the sound?
It does look a lot simpler than a TPU/ECD, deceptively simple.

Also where/how is the loop closed?

Thanks

chrisC

Hey Chris,
You can see where the magnet is in the pictures.  Right behind the coils.  It is large.  As for the sound waves, what do you want to know?  Stereo, two channels, I believe from his other posts.

He said he was wanting to close the loop in the future, ie switch the battery off, and also put it into a round shape that is more appealing to some here.  LOL

I asked him to get back to us when he takes a picture with a bulb attached, regardless of how bright it is, while he looks to borrow an amp meter.  He is anxious to prove that it is not a transformer, but that the magnet is interacting with the oscillations through vibrations on the coils to produce the additional power.  I think I said that right for him.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 01, 2007, 08:43:29 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 09:34:10 AM
Hi Brnbrade,

Thanks for posting. I think you need to provide a detailed drawing of what wires are connected to what. The placement of the magnet. Where the poles are of the magnet are. Where the +ve. and -ve of the battary go. Whether the batteris are in series or parallel etc.

I really don't want to have another guessing game, SM pictures are quite enough!!
But in the last picture showing 250V the magnet does not appear to be part of the circuit ?

This circuit digrammer is quick and easy for drawing components and linking with wires:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

Select Menu 'Circuits' - item -'Blank Circuits' to get going.
RIGHT CLICK to access all the components and wires.

Cheer, Bob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 01, 2007, 09:56:13 AM
...
Title: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 01:26:47 PM
Hi Brnbrade,

what material do you use for cores of coils?
what do you wrap the coils on ?

Is it steel or iron ?  Or magnet(s) ?

2 of 3 photos (AC+DC) have large circular magnet, but 1 photo (audio) does not.
Can you explain this some more?

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: TheOne on July 01, 2007, 02:38:24 PM
no video or other pic showing the light?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 03:17:21 PM
There is a definate mobius on the thin wire on both ends.

Brnbrade was a student of Erfinder also. Brnbrade does not speak English well.

So we have coils
Large Magnet
oscillations
Mobius on both ends
DC Input / AC Output
Large voltage output
Unknown amperage

Brnbrade is going to hook up a light bulb, and take a picture.  He is also going to borrow an amp meter.  I do not know when this will be done.  I for one am facinated.

The red wire appears to be 12 awg solid.  The thin wire seems to be braided.  Someone else will need to give type and size.

Cheers,
Bruce

Good morning guys!  :)

I awoke thinking about this brnbrade coil.  I also received some more information from brnbrade.

First, please read above, the ingredients list.  Next, I want to add one big one that I figured out this morning, and I do indeed it is a piece of the TPU puzzle.

*Brnbrades coil has "IDENTICAL signals/different source, opposing one another, SLIGHTLY OUT OF PHASE, ONE FROM THE OTHER.


I have talked at length as you know, about identical signals/different source opposing one another.  But now we see it with a twist.  One identical signal is slightly out of phase of the other.  Now that make me think of SM's words:

"It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds.
What I measured during this process was very interesting.
All these frequencies occasionally met at the same time with a much larger kick at the output."

AND

"Now look at a basic electron tube device.
You have one stage of amplification, one stage of signal phase splitting and driving and one stage of power output,"

AND

"I am using 6BQ7-A tubes for the input and phase inverter..."

Now I would suggest two experiments. 
1. Build brnbrades coils and test, And/or 2.  put two transformers, back to back.  Wire them in mobius fashion, only on the primary side.  Add two IDENTICAL signals/DIFFERENT sources opposing one another, BUT have one SLIGHTLY OUT OF PHASE of the other.

Lastly you who think this is just a transformer, the thin wire IS THE PRIMARY and the solid wire IS THE SECONDARY. 

Now that is a real brain twist and straight from brnbrade.  ;)

Happy, Happy Days!  I think He has found a clue in the least!  And perhaps more if we test ourselves or await an amp reading.

Bruce  :)
Title: Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU and Cook 1871 Patent
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 05:48:10 PM
Hi All,

Please see attached patent.  If this works, it is about time to warm it up !!

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 01, 2007, 05:53:32 PM
Hi btentzer and Brbrade,

Nice to hear that someone is getting more anomalous results! Let me tell you something. The first thing I thought of when seeing the pictures are the McFarland Cook coils, and a coil design by Don Smith which closely resembles what Brnbrade.

It looks simple enough to replicate but, as everyone else here has noted, we need some hard data and diagrams to replicate from. I for one have grown weary of scant information about devices so I'll hang around on the sidelines and wait for more info. All I need to know is how the coils are connected to each other, how the battery's are connected to the coils, and how the signals are fed into the coils. Also, knowing what core material is used would be helpful.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: How to download the Cook patent
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 05:53:00 PM
Hi All,

the patent of Cook from 1871 can be downloaded here:

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat119825.pdf

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat119825.pdf (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat119825.pdf)

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 01, 2007, 06:00:58 PM
Hi Earl,

LOL looks like we both had the same thought after seeing that :-). I actually built a Cook coil but I just never figured out how to start it up.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Cook patent 1871
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 06:17:16 PM
Hi Jason,

yes we both saw the resemblance.  If you look at the patent, you will have enough hints how to build it and activate it.  It also has a resemblance to the TPU bifilar coils.

If you finish this project and it works, we will all be singing "one kick myself in the ass is a small one, but thousands add up to a big kick".

Hi Bob,  notice the patent says the core can be ferric or magnets.  hehehe parlo Italiano?

1871 to 2007, talk about rapid technological progress !

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: turbo on July 01, 2007, 06:23:40 PM
The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

i also experimented with these and i never got it to work.
Marco.
Title: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 06:43:33 PM
Hi Marco,

that is interesting.  Will see if Brnbrade or others can get it to work.  My image was drawn by looking at Brnbrade's photos, so he is definitely having some results.  One puzzling thing, it looks like he only has a voltmeter as load and that is not all that much to keep the action going.  The patent says the output must always be loaded after a kick start.

Also his first circuit presented is completely different than the present one.

Did you try both ferric and magnet cores?

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 01, 2007, 08:06:57 PM
Hi Earl,

My setup only has steel cores on it. 1018 if I remember right. The coes are 2" in diameter so I never tried to find magnets that big to replace them with  :D.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 08:28:27 PM
Hi guys!

There are of course two individual coils with brnbrade.  Air core is what he has said before.

The solid 12 awg. wire IS the secondary.  He gives turns for this in my first post. 

The thin braided primary wire IS the primary.  Elsewhere he said 1000 turns, but here he wrapped so that the total radius of wrapped wire is about the same of the core.

The primary wire is connected of each coil is connected to the opposing secondary via mobius fashion.

You can see plainly from the photos that the batteries go to a cap and the cap to the   coils.  Also can be seen how they connect.  The photos are very high resolution and can be blown up very large.

You can see the oscillations are input where he has circled.  I believe from previous post that he was stereo out giving him two channels.  The exact method from stereo to coil still needs to be found out, and I will work on that.

And that is pretty much it, other than he is going to put it on a bulb and take a picture. And at the same time take an Amp reading.

I for one, am facinated and have never seen something like this.  We will see.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 01, 2007, 08:35:49 PM
Hi Bruce,

It looks like you have a good understanding of this. Is the circuit in your mind the same as the one that Earl posted earlier?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 01, 2007, 08:40:58 PM
One more thing, how is the audio input connected? I can't tell very clearly from the pictures; is it connected across the battery input?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: pese on July 01, 2007, 08:54:45 PM
@all
I have seen this (Mc Farland)-patent already years and somewhere with myself texts in addition abgepeichert. Nevertheless, in my brain I still have
stored, that the iron core also of many wires can exist. (what will work usually also better)
Moreover further a reel 23 turns and second had less windings (I think it 15 were).
For me it is not explicable
why in the patent of thousand feed drahtl?nge the speech is and no information was done

Gustav Pese

http://ch.to/FE
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 09:15:42 PM
@ Jason & Earl

Yes, Earl's drawing is good, but a few things need to be added.  The thin 1000 wrap primary is ontop of the larger 12 awg. solid wrapped wire, which is wrapped first, and then the other wrapped over it.

Also, air core as I have said.  And do not forget the large magnet in the prescense of the coil.

and lastly do not forget the oscillations from the stereo with Identical signals/different source opposing one another, with one signal slightly out of phase.  (Whatever degree out of phase to produce stereo music.  ANOTHER CLUE answered OF SM's.  How many times does he mention "STEREO".  LOL  I missed it until JUST NOW!!  HA!

Blessings,
Bruce  :)
Title: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 09:47:41 PM
Hi Jason,

From the patent text, it is clear that the more you break the core up into smaller and thiner wires, the better.  It appears to me that a massive, solid core is the exact opposite of what you want to do:  many fine iron wires as core.  Fence wire maybe.

Regards, Earl
Hi Earl,
My setup only has steel cores on it. 1018 if I remember right. The coes are 2" in diameter so I never tried to find magnets that big to replace them with  :D.
God Bless, Jason O
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: turbo on July 01, 2007, 09:58:41 PM
Hi Marco,

that is interesting.  Will see if Brnbrade or others can get it to work.  My image was drawn by looking at Brnbrade's photos, so he is definitely having some results.  One puzzling thing, it looks like he only has a voltmeter as load and that is not all that much to keep the action going.  The patent says the output must always be loaded after a kick start.

Also his first circuit presented is completely different than the present one.

Did you try both ferric and magnet cores?

Regards, Earl

Hi,

i tried the "iron rod"
and i tried many times to start it by sweeping it with a magnet and aplying pulses to it but it never continue to run.

Marco
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: gn0stik on July 01, 2007, 10:05:08 PM
Nice transformers.

Hope you prove me wrong, but.... I have a feeling I could pull a couple of these from a pc power supply and do the same thing.

without current measurements, we can assume nothing.

It is wired up like a magnetic amplifier, interestingly enough. I have some theories about those things, and they do keep popping up, the vta, otto's research, etc.

Hope theres more to it, and the tale will be told by the amp measurements.


BTW, why not rectify and measure amps out on that analog meter? It has DC amps on it.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 12:16:45 AM
hi all,

am i misinterpreting something or reading something into this from another thread that bruce was posting on.  the thing that caught my eye was the idea of basically trappong the bmef between two diodes.  is that right or what?  once the diodes trap the bemf then it suddenly spikes and is trapped until the second coil is shorted. then the output which was 1.5 volts dc in is suddenly 52 volts ac on the second coil. 

"DAMN THE (AMP) TORPEDOES, FULL SPEED AHEAD!"

lol
sam

ps:  shuttin up shuttin up.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 12:30:04 AM
hi all,

am i misinterpreting something or reading something into this from another thread that bruce was posting on.  the thing that caught my eye was the idea of basically trappong the bmef between two diodes.  is that right or what?  once the diodes trap the bemf then it suddenly spikes and is trapped until the second coil is shorted. then the output which was 1.5 volts dc in is suddenly 52 volts ac on the second coil. 

"DAMN THE (AMP) TORPEDOES, FULL SPEED AHEAD!"

lol
sam

ps:  shuttin up shuttin up.

@ Sam
bob.R's thread is the info about the diodes. 

@ Rich
Great idea!  LOL  none of us thought of that.. I sent brnbrade the message.  We will see.

@ All
Regardless the outcome of this thread, be thinking, "opposing identical signals/different sources, slightly out of phase, one from the other."

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 01:02:57 AM
Very interesting developments !!!

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 01:27:53 AM
bruce,

sorry for the confusion. on my part, but does this possibly have something to do with brnbrade's device, or his results?  are there capaciteance issues?  what frequency ac are we seeing?  how many watts is the stereo putting out? what is the max output of the stereo unit, and where waws the volumn set?  gosh i wish i was there live!  it is looking like everytime i'm not i may be missing history in the making!

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!  and get back to my stupid questions when you can.

lol
sam

ps:shuttin up shuttin up.  if i can
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 01:50:44 AM

sorry for the confusion. on my part, but does this possibly have something to do with brnbrade's device, or his results?  are there capaciteance issues?  what frequency ac are we seeing?  how many watts is the stereo putting out? what is the max output of the stereo unit, and where waws the volumn set?  gosh i wish i was there live!  it is looking like everytime i'm not i may be missing history in the making!


Hi Sam,

Yes, this thread was made on behalf of brnbrade who asked that I assist him.  His English is not the best, and he is a youth.  So I promised to assist any way possible.

I do not know if brnbrade ever saw the patent talked about by Earl and Jason.  He can answer that.

Watts the stereo is putting out is a good question.  We have no answer at this time.  I measured the voltage on mine sometime ago when I tried to build his coil about a week ago.  At full volume, the voltage was about 235 mv. 

Frequency AC is a good question. 

Where was the volume set, unknown.  I asked that also, we will see.

If someone/anyone could post what type and size of wire they think the thin braided primary is, that would be helpful for replication.  It looks to be easy to replicate. 

Earl gave a drawing.  There is a speaker magnet on end behind the coil.  Wrap 12awg solid first.  number of turns on the first post.  Directly on top of the large wire, wrap the thin primary.  He had said 1000 turns on another thread.  yesterday he just said, until the wrapped wire is equal to the diameter of the air core.  Mobius twist on both ends, of primary to opposing secondary.  Two coils are needed of course.
56volts AC, with no oscillations
250volt AC with.

2 1.5volt batteries.

Cheers,
Bruce

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 02:13:33 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 02:20:45 AM
Hi brnbrade,

Please let everyone know what size bulb that is, 10 watt, 40 watt  60 watt,?

Also, that bulb is lit while the stereo is hooked up, correct? 

Thank you for details my friend,
Bruce  ;)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 02:22:17 AM
bruce,

the first consideration for my questions was for brnbrade's safety!  one of my concerns is , brnbrade creating a capacitence, like bob's, that could potentially go into an avalanche cascade and create that sudden "kick" that could cause a tv to implode or "a lightning strike!"  since brnbrade's preliminary results show that it is possible to convert through two transformers the results that have been documented, there are several considerations, safety wise that should be looked at first!  maybe everyone should take a second look at these before pushing for answers to questions, from a youth, that they may be better equipped to answer.  sorry if this seems like a step back, but, sometimes it might be warranted!  no disrespect intended to our young friend that has published his results!!!  THANKS TO BRNBRADE AND TO YOU TOO BRUCE!!!!

i think all good things come.

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 02:26:05 AM
brnbrade,

shuttinup shuttinup!!!!
looks like you know what your doing!!!
lead on!

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 02:26:46 AM
Hi Jason,

From the patent text, it is clear that the more you break the core up into smaller and thiner wires, the better.  It appears to me that a massive, solid core is the exact opposite of what you want to do:  many fine iron wires as core.  Fence wire maybe.

Regards, Earl
Hi Earl,
My setup only has steel cores on it. 1018 if I remember right. The coes are 2" in diameter so I never tried to find magnets that big to replace them with  :D.
God Bless, Jason O

How about using sub millimeter pellets or grinding particles packed into a perspex tube.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 02:41:39 AM
brnbrade,

regardless, of whether the bulb is a 40, 60, or 80 watt bulb, it liiks like you have enough power to charge your batteries!

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 02:55:20 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: supersam on July 02, 2007, 03:12:22 AM
brnbrade,

FANTASTIC!!!! how long do the batteries last??  like i said there is plenty of power there to recharge!  just curious.  or have you even ran the battteries down yet?

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: chrisC on July 02, 2007, 03:13:18 AM
 Brnbrade:

WOW!! 3v DC in? We look forward to your rectified current. Congratulations!

chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 03:15:06 AM
WOW,
@brnbrade well done !
pretty much output !

Do you use now any sound input too ?
I can not see any wires from any sound input ?!

How much amps do you draw from the 2 batteries ?

Can you please post a schematic of this circuit ?

What kind of magnet are you using there ?
How is it magnetized ?
Is it an old speaker magnet ?

What are the cores of the coils ?
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 03:30:06 AM
Let there be Light !!!!     :D

Awesome brnbrade I like what I see.

Two things I'm wondering about:

1)  The battery wires go down in the dark part of the picture (red, black)  and two yellow wires come up.   What is the connection down there?

2)  I see the capacitor on the side, not even connected,  what happend? Is it not important?   That's great, much simpler then.

When you document, make sure you show the polarity of the flux on the two rods, it's important.

EM

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 03:44:34 AM
...

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 03:51:10 AM
Hi all

Somebody please can draw a schematic of as one
mosfet could drain amper of the red wire.

Thank.  :)




What do you mean by this ?

Can you please post more pictures of your setup and let us know
more data of it ?

How many turns have the coils ?

What is the core of  the 2 rod coils  made of ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

P.S: Please use
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
for translation if you can not post in english language,
or post in your native language over here and somebody else
will translate the to english language.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 04:01:49 AM
Looks a bit to me after scaling and brightening his pictures up,
asif he used big iron nails to wind his coils onto them and used ferrite disc magnets
on one end to give the iron nails some remanenz flux density this way ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 04:03:24 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 04:05:49 AM
Well done brnbrade. The bulb brightness looks great -definately something happening here.

As requested here is a document about recitification for amp measurement.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/electric/Semi/SEMI_3.html

See about half way down - "full wave rectifying circuit" (bridge design)

You need 4 diodes for best result.

Or just use one diode, and double the measurement - this assumes the AC averages out to be symetrical over time.

The only item I'm unsure about is where the stereo connections are made.

Are you connecting the two positives but not the common negative ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 04:08:08 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:08:53 AM
brnbrade,  why do you mention a MOSFET?  

Do you have a MOSFET in the circuit?  

I thought it was a simple 2 transformer setup with a batteri and a capacitor, which it appears you don't use any longer.

You can draw a schematic on paper and take a picture,  it doesn't have to be on a computer.  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 04:12:23 AM

I need scheme of the mosfets for drain the amps.

Regards


Hi ,

what should the MOSFET circuit exactly do ?

Draining which amps ?
Or controlling the draining of the amps  from your 2 batteries ?

Please explain and also explain more your circuit.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:16:38 AM
@ Brnbrade

Hang in there you are doing great!!  :D

@ Everyone

I did find out that the volume on the radio was set at 30%

It looks to me that the coils are wound over a plastic air core and then a nail is inserted into the center of each.  Is this correct brnbrade?

Also, I think there is only the large speaker magnet that is seen.  This is what he said last time on another thread.  Is the large magnet the only one brnbrade?

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 04:23:12 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 02, 2007, 04:34:53 AM
http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm  Interesting well done,  looking forward to youp diagram post. Follow link at bottom of page,I Emailed the person but never recived an answer but good information
Title: Re: Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU and Cook 1871 Patent
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 05:26:23 AM
Hi All,

Please see attached patent.  If this works, it is about time to warm it up !!

Regards, Earl

I know this is an unusual circuit but the way you've drawn the connections means their is no loop from positive to negative of the battery. i.e. no current is flowing from the battery ?

The battery appears to apply a +ve 3V potential to a primary and secondary and a -ve potential to the other primary and secondary.

If the connections are changed slightly and a current is flowing then the transformers will be acting as diodes for signals up to 3volts. See Tesla patent 413,353. Tesla called it a Magnetic Diode. I believe signals over 3V will cause voltage spikes ?

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat413353.pdf

I find this all very interesting.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 05:37:42 AM
Hey all!   

It would seem that our young friend has made some improvements to his coils since his post on EM's thread. 

Here are some more accurate details of the present setup:
Is the primary and secondary wires wound on plastic or metal?
1.  Core is steel or magnetic insulated for dieletric element.

Is that large round magnet the only magnet you have with the coils?
2.  Yes.

Also I wanted to say, that like Otto, our young friend is a student of Erfinder.

Happy Days!  :) 
Bruce 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: brnbrade on July 02, 2007, 05:44:11 AM
...


Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Dansway on July 02, 2007, 05:49:44 AM
@brnbrade,

Alum....

Hm...

Now you have my attention.

How about a detailed schem so that we can try and replicate your design?

Thanks for sharing!

~Dan
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 02, 2007, 05:57:49 AM
well done Brnbrade: I built a cook coil years back and could not make it work. I've learned more sence then. in the original patent cook used kraft paper as an insulator. I never got the chance to do this but my next unit was to replace the kraft paper with a capicator in the insulator feild. doing this by takeing suranwrap (plastic wrap) and aluminum foil (thin stuff ) about 30ft long and roll it up on the secondary coil. this would help giveing a hard pulse the the primary.  Mike
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 05:59:23 AM
@ All

Please remember, with brnbrade's coils, His primary is of fine wire and is ON TOP of the larger wire, unlike you see in the patent.  ;)

And top coil primary, to bottom coil secondary.  Bottom coil primary to top coil secondary in mobius fashion.  The same on the other side.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 02, 2007, 06:04:18 AM
Bruce -Thank you I was trying to figure that out, I sure Barnbrade will post the build process soon so we can all expieriment with it ,sound like fun ! :D  Mike
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 06:23:22 AM
Hi brnbrade,

Bruce asked me to post a more detailed example of how to connect an analogue meter to measure the rectified current.
Hope this helps. Obviously this is just for a ballpark figure. We can add smoothing capacitors later.

bob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: TheOne on July 02, 2007, 06:24:49 AM
i think black sand material is a good candidate for this device, using plastic tube and fill up with blacksand, but i dont have wire and not really the wire i need, also can any capacitor can be used? i have 2 big microwave capacitor but i guess its to big :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 06:36:28 AM
My scheme  ;D

 :o  :P





Looks like these would increase the capacitance of the coils. Could this be a form of pulsing a static electric field ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 02, 2007, 07:01:06 AM
Hello Brnbrade,

Nice pictures of your light bulb! It looks like you may be onto something here! I am excited about this as everyone else here is, but there is one thing I wanted to know about the sound input. I may have missed the earlier posts referring to it, but what are you using for the sound input? Is it coming from something like a sound card on your computer or an audio amplifier? We must also take into consideration the power supplied by the sound input as we all know you can have amplifiers that can output anything from 6W to 400W+ easily depending on the type. (The average sound card outputs between 1W to 5W on the speaker jack; Ref: http://www.pcmech.com/show/multimedia/160/).

I'm also interested in knowing what you are using a MOSFET for in your setup.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: dlwammo on July 02, 2007, 07:10:47 AM
Just some additional info on Daniel McFarland Cook

Read Harold Aspden's - The Physics of Creation
Chapter 9 - Pages 202 - 208

He deals with the capacitance scenario along with Cook's patent....
Cook also had patent on Galvanic Battery as well.

Dan
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 07:17:08 AM
Just some additional info on Daniel McFarland Cook

Read Harold Aspden's - The Physics of Creation
Chapter 9 - Pages 202 - 208

He deals with the capacitance scenario along with Cook's patent....
Cook also had patent on Galvanic Battery as well.

Dan
Thanks Dan. Available for free in pdf. Got to love the internet!

http://www.aspden.org/books/2edpoc/2edpocch9.pdf
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: TheOne on July 02, 2007, 07:20:42 AM
Hello Brnbrade,

Nice pictures of your light bulb! It looks like you may be onto something here! I am excited about this as everyone else here is, but there is one thing I wanted to know about the sound input. I may have missed the earlier posts referring to it, but what are you using for the sound input? Is it coming from something like a sound card on your computer or an audio amplifier? We must also take into consideration the power supplied by the sound input as we all know you can have amplifiers that can output anything from 6W to 400W+ easily depending on the type. (The average sound card outputs between 1W to 5W on the speaker jack; Ref: http://www.pcmech.com/show/multimedia/160/).

I'm also interested in knowing what you are using a MOSFET for in your setup.

God Bless,
Jason O

As far as I understand he only use 2 aa input battery (3volts), not using any input from a soundcard
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 07:28:07 AM
Hello Brnbrade,

Nice pictures of your light bulb! It looks like you may be onto something here! I am excited about this as everyone else here is, but there is one thing I wanted to know about the sound input. I may have missed the earlier posts referring to it, but what are you using for the sound input? Is it coming from something like a sound card on your computer or an audio amplifier? We must also take into consideration the power supplied by the sound input as we all know you can have amplifiers that can output anything from 6W to 400W+ easily depending on the type. (The average sound card outputs between 1W to 5W on the speaker jack; Ref: http://www.pcmech.com/show/multimedia/160/).

I'm also interested in knowing what you are using a MOSFET for in your setup.

God Bless,
Jason O
@ Jason and All

I asked brnbrade the same question and this was his answer:
Was it a stereo head phone jack you hooked to?

It was in the exit of the I radio. Probably him already this covered with earth and it turns off automatically when has return voltage.
The volume was 30% of 100%.
More thinks that is irrelevant, because a small charge for the battery work.


If so, where  did you wire the ground of each channel?

No grounded

Cheers,
Bruce   (In the picture the jumper cable looking things are to the radio, according to earlier pictures.)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: BEP on July 02, 2007, 08:01:45 AM
Please note that even with the ground not connected a stereo signal from almost any device - the circuit will be complete when the audio signal phase difference is not zero.

This does not mean failure. It just means it is possible the wattage from two channels may be additive sometimes.

However, if it is coming from the headphone jack and not the speaker connection the power is much less than the rating of the amplifier.

GREAT WORK either way!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Jdo300 on July 02, 2007, 08:02:06 AM
Hi Bruce,

Glad to hear that his sound inputs to the coils are not grounded. Thats consistent with all of my one-wire experiments, like the one I posted on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpEYlmsMmyw

I'm still not completely satisfied about the info for the sound input. It's good to know that he is using a radio but I want to know if he is inputing the signals from an earphone jack or not. Knowing what kind of radio he has would clear this all up for me. If it's a small radio, then I'm guessing the earphone jack, but a larger one may have outputs to connect external speakers, in which case the power input could be much higher.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: H4 Halogen automobile headlight lamps
Post by: Earl on July 02, 2007, 11:43:50 AM
Hi All,

the bulb Brnbrade is using is a standard H4 halogen bulb.
From the Net:
The H4 was the world's first 2-filament halogen automotive bulb. It was introduced in Europe in 1971, and was used in many millions of European and Japanese headlamps starting in that year, but wasn't legalized in the US (where it was designated HB2 or 9003) until over two decades later, in 1992!

    *  60/55W Ultra High Output Plus 50 (Narva Rangepower+50*): $19/ea

    * 60/55W Narva Rangepower High Output Plus 30: $13/ea

    * 70/65W Osram Plus 50: $22/ea

    * 85/80W Osram Plus 50: $24/ea

    * 100/55W Narva: $17/ea

    * 100/90W Narva: $20/ea

    * 130/100W Narva: $22/ea

About H4 +50 Bulb Brands:
The H4 +50 bulbs from the big four reputable European bulb makers (Philips VisionPlus, Osram SilverStar, Narva RangePower+50, Tungsram Megalicht) are functionally identical. When we pick ten samples of each and put each one through photometric, optical comparator and life tests, there's a very narrow range of performance and life differences, and those differences are randomized among the four brands.


The one Wattage level is for low beam, the other for high beam, which sits behind a small piece of metal to give a sharp optical cutoff in order to reduce blinding of other drivers.

I would think Brnbrade is using the standard 55/60 Watt bulb.

Regards, Earl
Title: Question for Brnbrade
Post by: Earl on July 02, 2007, 12:17:20 PM
Hi Brnbrade,

When the lamp is light up, is the 2-cell battery connected to the circuit?

Or is the battery only connected for a very short time to give a starting pulse and then disconnected?

Is this what you want the MOSFET switch for?

I can design a circuit for you, if I understand what you need.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 12:45:29 PM
The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

Yes it was. And you heard it from me Marco. I made that claim a few times and the reason is simple. When you read the patent, it refers to elements in the drawing that are absent from the document. Therefore the conclusion that the drawing has been altered by simply erasing some of the circuit elements.

Jacob

 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 01:28:29 PM


Draining which amps?

Yes, will test the behavior of the mosfet in circuit.
I will try in output the red wire of the device


Sorry, but I don?t really understand you here !

Which red wire do you mean ?

Where is a MOSFET or where do you want to have MOSFET in your circuit ?

I saw, that your email address is from Brazil,
so you speak probably Spanish language,right ?

Please post here in your Spanish language.

By the way, your email address is not right.
Email to your email address is returned with
"no user exists there"

Maybe then it is getting more clear.

Do you have connected the aluminium foil to any coil ?

If not, this might just only work as a shielding of magnet fields
via eddy currents.

Brnbrade, do you have a scope, so you can show us
the output waveform ?
Is it a sinewave with a few Khz ?

What are the 2 yellow cables that are coming from below the table ?
What do you feed into them ?

Please explain more.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 01:34:22 PM
@ All

Please remember, with brnbrade's coils, His primary is of fine wire and is ON TOP of the larger wire, unlike you see in the patent.  ;)

And top coil primary, to bottom coil secondary.  Bottom coil primary to top coil secondary in mobius fashion.  The same on the other side.

Cheers,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,
are you in email contact with Brnbrade or where do you know this from ?

His email address he put into the forum over here bounces...
Please tell him to post in his mother native language over here.
Then he might be able to post more infos when he is here.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: abassign on July 02, 2007, 02:10:48 PM
Hi, Brnbrade

Excuse me if I have some doubts, the photo with the lighting lamp is very interesting, but the way of all the wires is not clear. Is it possible to have the same photo with all the wires and the condenser and the batteries ? Before beginning a check it is necessary to understand if there are not deceits.

Ciao
from Italy
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Unicron on July 02, 2007, 02:25:29 PM
verry small comment...
The language in Brazil is Portuguese!!!

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Gregi on July 02, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
@Stefan:
The info about which winding is on top of what been said in an earlier post by Bruce:

@ Jason & Earl

Yes, Earl's drawing is good, but a few things need to be added.  The thin 1000 wrap primary is ontop of the larger 12 awg. solid wrapped wire, which is wrapped first, and then the other wrapped over it.
...

Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 02:36:03 PM
Bruce,

I doubt the thick primary is wound first, are you sure?

From the photos it makes sense it's wound over the fine secondary.   The secondary coil, with the fine small wire, is also wound over a larger length of the rod.

I think the confusion came in over what PRIMARY means,  as  in FIRST  :)
So the FIRST winding he put down, or the PRIMARY in his vocabulary, we actualy call it the secondary,  due to the higher number of turns and thinking about transformer conventions.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 02:36:35 PM
@ Stefan

I have been in touch with brnbrade through the PM of your forum.  LOL   Not his email.  He tried to email the pictures to me in the beginning and I never recieved it, so I already figured there were email problems.

And Yes, the primary is the small wire and is wound directly on top of the larger, much shorter secondary as I was told.

@ Jason
Perhaps he can provide us with a photograph of the input to the radio.  As too where the yellow wires go, my guess would be to a capacitor between battery outputs and device input as he showed the other night.  But...I do not know that for sure.

@ All
Though it is possible...I do not expect deciet.  I simply see no motive.  Brnbrade PM'd me to tell me of his find, probably because I was the only one who tried to replicate the first time, while everyone was working on EM's device.  I did not have the details needed and was not successful.  It was I who talked brnbrade in to sharing this with all of you.  He was also a student of Erfinder and is very smart. 

I agree with Stefan that brnbrade should post in Spanish.  I think that it would help him much in giving us details.  Also, the device does not look hard to build.  I would suggest we scrounge some aluminum and maybe wrap one.  Someone with a scope.  Brnbrade probably does not have a scope. (a guess.)

If someone would be kind enough to guess at the size of the thin wire, based on the early pictures, that would be great and helpful to us.

Lastly, when the bulb was lit, it appears the voltmeter dropped close to zero.  BEP noticed this as did I.  What would cause that??

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce



Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 03:02:54 PM


Hey ALL,
Here is the question answer part of his messages to me:


Part of original PM:
I promise, I accomplish.

I made tests again with 2 cells DC 1,5v and, well... surprise output 52V AC.
I made the tests with sounds pulses and same ouver 250V AC.
Believe, the search for the overunit for me ended. Now is Real
I want that passes that for all like you can in language




They are all thinking "transformer".  I do not think this

The most intriguing is your fact to can punsar waves DC in the coils and to leave with AC.
The amper is secret for me.
However, I am sure that no this related the cells, but the secondary ones fat.


How many amps?

This related with thickness of the secondary thread. The more thick the more secondary amperes.
More doesn't have an amper reader.


How did you measure the amps?

No mesure. I no amper reader.

What size wire for primary?

Equal of the nucleus.


What size wire for secondary?

A little smaller than the core.


How many Turns of each?

Secundare + ou - 35 turns. Wire Thicker.
Primary equal the size of the core. Very fine wire.



The fine wire, what type is it?  It appears to be braided.

Fine wire in primary. More fine possible. No is braied. Coiled defult in turns.


That is it.  Enough information to experiment with, if you ask me.  Plus his post of the patent picture.  Just take into account what he has said and make the changes needed.

EM could be correct with the language barrier.  It does appear in the photo that the thicker is ON TOP of the finer in the last photo in the far most coil.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Question for Brnbrade
Post by: Earl on July 02, 2007, 03:06:00 PM
Hi Brnbrade,

Can you please provide me with explanations for the two questions in the attached image?

Pode voc? por favor fornecer-me com as explana??es para as duas perguntas na imagem unida?

Please can you take another photo showing all wires when the lamp is shining brightly?

Por favor pode voc? fazer exame de uma outra foto que mostra todos os fios quando a l?mpada est? brilhando brilhantemente?

Obrigado muito muito.

at? logo,

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 03:14:30 PM
@ Earl
Nice drawing, we will see what he says

@ALL

I am now convinced that EM IS CORRECT.  The language barrier has caused brnbrade to call the bottom wire primary and the top wire secondary.

When I blow up the photo, I can clearly see that the thicker RED wire is ON THE TOP of each coil, and NOT the bottom!


Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 03:19:31 PM
@ Earl
The core is iron.
What the wire is wrapped on is AL.
The ONLY magnet is the large round speaker magnet seen behind the coils.  I asked him this and posted his answer yesterday. 

If you could correct the drawing in that regard, thank you.  This way we are not asking the same questions again.  :)

Please REFER to Patent picture he posted with the arrows!!  Thanks.

Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 03:23:37 PM
@ Earl,

You are also missing the wires from the stereo.  In the picture these are the things that look like jumper cables, hooked to the bulb.

@All

Knowing the larger wire is on the top, is troubling, even though the input is DC.  And also I think that we need to know where the two YELLOW wires go to.  A picture of the radio and ALL the wires would be a help in believablity.  Also, the zero reading voltmeter is a concern.   :-\

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 03:38:53 PM
@ Earl,

You are also missing the wires from the stereo.  In the picture these are the things that look like jumper cables, hooked to the bulb.

@All

Knowing the larger wire is on the top, is troubling, even though the input is DC.  And also I think that we need to know where the two YELLOW wires go to.  A picture of the radio and ALL the wires would be a help in believablity.  Also, the zero reading voltmeter is a concern.   :-\

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 03:51:29 PM
Bruce,

I doubt the thick primary is wound first, are you sure?

From the photos it makes sense it's wound over the fine secondary.   The secondary coil, with the fine small wire, is also wound over a larger length of the rod.

I think the confusion came in over what PRIMARY means,  as  in FIRST  :)
So the FIRST winding he put down, or the PRIMARY in his vocabulary, we actualy call it the secondary,  due to the higher number of turns and thinking about transformer conventions.

EM

Hi EM,

I don't think there is any confusion here. A primary doesn't necessarily have less winding than a secondary. It only refers to the input of the transformer. The secondary will have more turns than the primary in a step up transformer, but obviously not in a step down unit.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 03:52:15 PM
Quote
Hi EM,

I don't think there is any confusion here. A primary doesn't necessarily have less winding than a secondary. It only refers to the input of the transformer. The secondary will have more turns than the primary in a step up transformer, but obviously not in a step down unit.

Jacob

Thanks for enlightning me jacob, what would we do without you  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 03:54:52 PM
Maybe the battery is not connected and the yellow wires just come from his
stereo radio ?
Maybe also the voltmeter is not connected to the bulb ?
It is hard to see, if the voltmeter plugs are really connected to the
bulb.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: uPDATED BRNBRADE SCHEMATIC
Post by: Earl on July 02, 2007, 03:56:19 PM
Hi All,

here is the last revision for today, perhaps more revisions tomorrow.

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:01:10 PM
@ Jacob, EM and ALL

I do have some concerns with the photo.  I need someone to confirm the following, please:

If you blow the picture up large, (it is of high resolution) you can see the three input prongs of the light bulb.  And none of them have any input from the two orange wires that can be seen. 

The only input seen, is from the BATTERY CABLE connectors. 

Any information concerning this would be helpful.

Thank you,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:03:50 PM
The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

Yes it was. And you heard it from me Marco. I made that claim a few times and the reason is simple. When you read the patent, it refers to elements in the drawing that are absent from the document. Therefore the conclusion that the drawing has been altered by simply erasing some of the circuit elements.

Jacob

 

Jacob,  if you would be so kind, can you provide a reference for your claim.  

I scanned the patent over and I don't see any references to other figures besides Figure 1 and Figure 2.  (I used www.pat2pdf.org)  Perhaps you have a hard copy with a different text?    By the way, the No 16 and No 30 referenced in the document mean wire number, or size, or gage, not a part number on some missing figure, at least that's the way I read it.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:08:43 PM
Bruce,   take it easy there, you're his only hope  !!!   :D  :)

Seriously, I belive the clamps you see are from the scope, we can see those in the other photos.

Why the meter is down CLOSE to zero is another story. 

The yellow wires from down below are the only unsettling question for me,  but the wires maybe came with the plastic connector, and the batteri leads connect to the yellow wires down bellow.   I'll give him the benefit of doubt untill prove quilty  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:13:43 PM
EM,

Please look closely at the three prongs.   I have some serious concerns that there is NO INPUT to them BESIDES the two jumper cables.  That is the only input I see.

 ???
Cheers,
Bruce   
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:21:30 PM
Take a gander!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:22:37 PM
Bruce, why don't you anotate my zoomed in photo.  What do you mean?  Place some labels on it.

I would think if he wanted to trick us he would use the yellow wires, but you never know.  Let's hope he wasn't out to have a good laugh on us.   :D

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:32:24 PM
Ok, you can even see the orange wire crossing upwards to reach the top tab.

I know we can't prove a connection from a photo, but I don't see any blatant deceit... yet.

I'm just hoping he comes clean on the yellow wires down bellow.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:33:37 PM
Someone tell me I am wrong and I will erase my prior statements. 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: hartiberlin on July 02, 2007, 04:36:09 PM
What role could the 2 alufoils per rod can play ?
As he thus shields the electric fields from each coil, but not the magnetic,
maybe it is a key to just have the electric field for a transformer effect but not
the electric field ?
What about eddy currents inside the alufoil ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:38:25 PM
@ EM

It would appear to me that the two orange wires are behind the bulb.  Look close, and you will see nothing on the three prongs except for the two jumpers.  We need more clarification from brnbrade, how everything is wired.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: wattsup on July 02, 2007, 04:39:13 PM
@btenzer

Keep cool.

The battery lines are going to the yellow going to the terminal then to the two coils in mobius.

The orange are going to the light along with the two probes from the meter.

OK you can't see the battery wire completely going to the yellow but this is only a lack of overall detail in the picture. Plus if you consider the angle of the yellow versus the battery wires, we can presume they are connected otherwise the battery wires would simply fall straight down off the side of the table.

Also, there is no sound input on this test so he is producing DC-DC and that's why the meter is at zero because he is on the AC selector.

@Brnbrade

Whenever you take pictures it is important to show all wires to be on the table and not falling off the side.

Be carefull if you plug the sound and produce the AC it could blow the bulb.

Good work.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Unicron on July 02, 2007, 04:42:01 PM
And what about the cap not connected now? is that not needed now?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 04:42:25 PM
Bruce, why don't you anotate my zoomed in photo.  What do you mean?  Place some labels on it.

I would think if he wanted to trick us he would use the yellow wires, but you never know.  Let's hope he wasn't out to have a good laugh on us.   :D

EM

Bruce - P****D - now there's something I didn't think I'd ever see!

But seriously it's not nice to think you've been had BUT I don't think this is the case.
Cheer up - ask for another photo of the whole setup and see what gives.

I think it's possible brnbrade used the aligator clips to also hold onto the stranded wire of those two connections you don't think are connected. If it's a con it would be MUCH easier to make the connection obvious and connect a 12 volt car battery to those yellow wires...

It's impossible to solder to the leads of those lamps. I've used aligator clips from my scope/freq. gen. many times to hold things in place when I want to try stuff out.

Besides it fits in too well to the stuff I'm currently experimenting having now heard about the insulators. Pulsing an electric field held on a coil does produce some interesting hash and noise on an oscilloscope...





Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Mannix on July 02, 2007, 04:43:07 PM
Stefan,

Just to respect Steven can you move this to somewhere other that Steven Marks TPU devices.......it just aint..and has no place here .


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 04:45:23 PM
@btenzer

Keep cool.

The battery lines are going to the yellow going to the terminal then to the two coils in mobius.

The orange are going to the light along with the two probes from the meter.



@ Wattsup

Cool and reasoned.  I just would like clarification to all of us how the orange wires are connected to the light.  If through the probes, fine.  This is all I want to know.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 04:53:43 PM
Bruce, please,  I think you've been griped by doubt.  Take it easy.  Let's wait and see what our Brazilian friend has to say.

Wattsup,  thank you, you clarified the scope reading.  DC in DC out.  I totaly missed that.  Thank you.  My experiments now mean so much more  !!!!

EM

P.S.  See the photo, it's on DC (from the previous photos)  and he left it on AC in the lightbulb photo, too exicited to show us,  forget the meter reading he thought, I HAVE LIGHT !!!!    :)     I would of done the same thing.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 04:55:09 PM
@ Jacob, EM and ALL

I now STRONGLY suspect DECEIT in the picture of the bulb.  I need someone to confirm the following:

If you blow the picture up large, (it is of high resolution) you can see the three input prongs of the light bulb.  AND NONE OF THEM have ANY INPUT from the two orange wires.  

The ONLY INPUT is from the BATTERY CABLE connectors.  This would explain why no volt reading (not hooked up, would give it away) AND why the wires go off of the table to no-where!!

I am never quick to dismiss nor quick to believe, but I have to dismiss this based on the photo, unless someone sees something I have missed...  >:(

Bruce

Bruce, for some reason, I cannot download the picture. Can you email it to me?
 

The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

Yes it was. And you heard it from me Marco. I made that claim a few times and the reason is simple. When you read the patent, it refers to elements in the drawing that are absent from the document. Therefore the conclusion that the drawing has been altered by simply erasing some of the circuit elements.

Jacob

 

Jacob,  if you would be so kind, can you provide a reference for your claim.  

I scanned the patent over and I don't see any references to other figures besides Figure 1 and Figure 2.  (I used www.pat2pdf.org)  Perhaps you have a hard copy with a different text?    By the way, the No 16 and No 30 referenced in the document mean wire number, or size, or gage, not a part number on some missing figure, at least that's the way I read it.

EM

Sure EM, no problem. On the first text page, approximatively in the middle of the second column, you'll find the following text:

... the opposing initial secondary currents of the two helices B C being overpowered do not manifest themselves in the main circuit D of the battery, there being eight distincts currents developped in the action of one entire circuit of the two pairs of helices...

Unless I miss something, I dont see anything labelled as D in the drawing. Another reference to D also appears toward the very end of the text as follow:

For the purpose of preventing the heating of the helices caused by the intensity of the action, and to prevent circulation of the initial secondary currents in the main circuit, a rheostat of any convenient form may be made to constitute a part of the main circuit D.

The main circuit D is nowhere to be seen. Therefore my claim that this patent has been tampered with in order to make any replication attempt unsuccessfull. Obviously, there would be no motive to modify a design that doesn't work. I'll let you draw your own conclusions...

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 04:58:01 PM
@ Bruce,

Please disregard my last request. I see that some enlargement have been posted.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: wattsup on July 02, 2007, 04:58:26 PM
@btenzer

Off the terminal the right orange is going to the top bulb terminal and is held in place by the red meter probe alligator clip.

The other orange is going to the bottom bulb terminal and is held in place by the black meter probe alligator clip.

@unicorn

In actual fact the capacitor is not doing anything in the circuit because there is no charge/discharge control. But maybe when the sound it connected the fluctuations need the capacitor. But with straight DC-DC there is no need.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: bob.rennips on July 02, 2007, 05:06:37 PM
Stefan,

Just to respect Steven can you move this to somewhere other that Steven Marks TPU devices.......it just aint..and has no place here .




 I don't see why this is disrespectful.

I think you are being too hasty. You don't know how the TPU works - we only have theories and some promising experiments. If you know otherwise do tell...

The pulsing of electric fields, which IS what brnbrade is doing in his device, has direct parallels to SM's statement of 'removing the effects of the magnetic field'  and could be interpreted as dealing with the electric field.

The idea that a stereo connection also adds to the effect also has direct relevance to the SM TPU. Many people, including myself, have identified phase, as being very important to the SM TPU. Only yesterday, Bob Boyce, who is a seasoned researcher into SM TPU style setups, reinforced this idea. A stereo signal uses very slight phase differences in the two signals to create the sound stage. It is very interesting that this appears to work with this device. I've added it to my list of experiments to try.

My current experiments, not all of which I've posted online yet, show some promising 'effects', concerning enhancing the electric field around an SM style TPU.

SM has also freely talked about solidstate components not being mounted near the fibreglass circuit board. Why ? Because of electric field effects.

As such I think these posts should stay around in the SM forum area.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil????
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 05:16:36 PM
@ Bruce:

I agree with EM. At this point, why don't we just wait and see.

Stefan,

Just to respect Steven can you move this to somewhere other that Steven Marks TPU devices.......it just aint..and has no place here .


Hi Lindsay,

I am not so sure about that. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the core of the winding was actually part of the original circuit. And if so, it would act as the collector in a TPU. Of course it is not torroidal, but if you remember, Steven suggested that we start experimenting with non torroidal designs because it was easier and less dangerous.

And let's not forget that we are not only seeking to reproduce the TPU, but first and foremost to understand what makes it tick. And the process that goes on in the Cook McFarland device could be very closely related to what goes on in the TPU. How can we build something that works if we have no clue of the process we wish to create?

Jacob

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 05:26:14 PM
@ Jacob and Wattsup

Very good, I will hold my peace.  I still do not see it in the pictures, but that's fine.  Just having started the thread, I feel responsible and feel it is imperitive to make sure the integrity of the information given to us is honest.  I will feel much better with a confirmed replication.

@EM
Yes, I see the meter on DC.  So I do feel better about that.

@brnbrade
Please make sure all photographs show all wires and radio please, to remove room for doubt.  Thank you!  ;)

Happy Days, Again!  LOL
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 06:31:27 PM
Oh good, suny days once again.  :)  

Now,  I was theorizing that maybe some sort of galvanic action might be happening, but I don't know anymore.   This thing has DC amplification?   Wow,  now it's even more puzzling.

I mean, if it would of been AC, it would of made more sense, but DC output?  How in the world is that getting generated?

Aluminum foil?   Well, I would say that it's a filter for the mag fields.   Only SLOW VARRING FLUX WILL PENETRATE, HIGH FREQUENCY WILL BE REPELLED.  And yes, it blocks E-fields as well, but we're dealing with DC now, not AC.

Very strange device!

So here is what I suggest.  Build two cylindrical capacitor and interconnect them as shown.  Since it's DC, the windings don't do much, or do they?

Just a thought for reducing complexity to find the answer.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 06:49:13 PM

I mean, if it would of been AC, it would of made more sense, but DC output?  How in the world is that getting generated?

Aluminum foil?   Well, I would say that it's a filter for the mag fields.   Only SLOW VARRING FLUX WILL PENETRATE, HIGH FREQUENCY WILL BE REPELLED.  And yes, it blocks E-fields as well, but we're dealing with DC now, not AC.



Hi EM,

I am sorry, what did I miss??  Brnbrade was very clear that the output of his device was AC.  The input DC. 

Thanks, :)

Happy Sunny Days!
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 06:55:42 PM
Oh you're right Bruce, he does say it's AC, 52 V, then AC 250 V or so.   

But then what's with the scope picture showing the meter on DC?  Is this thing producing both AC and DC?   (look at the first two pictures he posted, one is AC the other DC, same configuration)
EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 07:00:40 PM
Question:  How did you measure the amps?

Answer:  No mesure. I no amper reader.



This is strange, his meter can do Amp readings as well, does he not know how to use it?   As in "I no good at reading meter?"   

Hmmm

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 02, 2007, 07:05:24 PM
EM:

That statement was made a couple of weeks ago when he first posted his discovery and he did not have access to a ammeter.

chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 02, 2007, 07:19:25 PM
Oh, I see.   We better wait then, and see what else he has for us.

I think I'm starting to replicate his device this evening, exactly !!!

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 02, 2007, 07:27:38 PM
Bruce, if the findings turn out to be nothing, which I believe they will, It will not be due to willful deceit, but rather ignorance of what is happening. I see nothing here that would indicate we are looking at anything interesting. Honestly, I hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't see what all the hubbub is about.

I would like to see complete input and output power measurements. The language problems are a bit confusing. When he is feeding power to the coils, is he using only the battery supply shown, or is he using output from the radio at the same time. Also, when he's using output from the radio to power his coils is he using white noise?

the radio he uses, what kind is it? Is it battery powered, or plugged into a wall? He needs to measure V and I at both input and output. This should have been in the FIRST post on this thread.

@Mannix, if you don't think this is releveant to the TPU, if it actually works, I would beg to differ. If Otto's device is relevent then this is a reduced complexity proof of concept. Go back and look at the document that has the sweet diagram in it which inspired otto to go mobius in the first place, then look at the drawings here.

If this works, then the similarities are not coincidence. No disrespect intended to SM.

@EM, yes I would guess that is the case. good luck on your replication.. I don't think we have enough info yet.

@chris, note: first post in this thread was yesterday, if you meant pms or emails, then do you know more about when this all started than we do? If it was weeks, then why don't we have more info to work from here? such as power in and out.... or a schematic (of his)

Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 02, 2007, 08:08:53 PM
Rich:

Brnbrade has numerious previous postings, the most relevant to this double coil contraption starts here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2449.60.html (posting #61)

As is often the case, because of the numerous threads and 'dicoveries' inter-mingled with other stuff, it is difficult to track. Also the language barrier and mis-information through third party translators add to the confusion.

@others
My opinion is to give Brnbrade some time and space. He can get his own English translator and when he is ready, the schematics and photos will be in place. In the meantime, there are enough questions for him to deal with without every tom dick and harry making his disclosures more difficult!

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: duff on July 02, 2007, 08:33:27 PM
.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 02, 2007, 08:36:43 PM
I'm afraid I have big doubts about this device being ou.

It's too bad about the barrage of questions and confusion, but I warned this would happen if the lad didn't have the minimums in place before coming forward. Evidently, he was not quite prepared as I suspected.

I don't understand how a simple diagram is such a difficult thing to produce, when photgraphs of the setup seem to come so easily  ???

I am aware that some people "just build" and don't even scratch the circuit on a napkin, but how do you expect to convince anyone (that's why he posted this isn't it?) that your device works as claimed without even a basic wiring diagram, or measurements, or clear description of how the device is connected and operates?

Ay carumba!

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 02, 2007, 08:42:57 PM
@ Lindsay,

I'm not saying that Brnbade's device belongs in this thread, but at the same time, it has no less relevance to SM's work as Otto and Roberto's work has.

nuff said.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 02, 2007, 08:45:58 PM
Hi, I'm Douglas from Brazil.

I have following the forum Overunity in a couple weeks and now I decided to participate. I am developing experiments with coils setups for studying its eletrical and magnetics fields for construct a TPU. I am not electrician or technician but I have some knowledge. My experiments are made in my free time.

I would feel honored if I could translate yours questions to Brnbrade (in portuguese) and to answer to you in English.

Is there many questions! Which questions I would have to make first?

Regards

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 02, 2007, 08:57:29 PM
Thanks Chris.

I'll read some of his previous stuff, perhaps it'll give me a better idea what's going on.

I agree, however that we should just wait until we have sufficient documentation.

attempting to replicate now, without enough info could cause some one to falsely report back that nothing special is happening. We need as much info as possible before doing anything.

I have to add however that reporting anything without being prepared to post EVERYTHING is a bad idea to begin with.

I hope we haven't scared him away, but I have to say, I have wasted a lot of time (months, not hours) chasing rabbits like this when enough initial testing was not done before hand, as have others. We've learned through trial and error that sticking to scientific method, or as close to that as you can while still communicating over the internet, while maintaining a balance of optimism and healthy skepticism is necessary.

Oh, And If you consider the SM TPU in general then it's been years, however I still hold out hope that that time wasn't wasted. (aside from chasing our tails at times)

I will leave this thread for now, at least until I've read the other stuff he's posted and he's had time to recharge his batteries and to reply to some of these questions.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 02, 2007, 10:13:31 PM
Doug56 :

I welcome your participation since you have a good comand of Portugese and English. Perhaps you can PM Brnbrade and basically ask him to produce a detailed schematic with reference to the photos and his voltage/current measurements.

Earl tried to draw the coils per the similarly disclosed Patent but we are no better off understanding how the coils are connected to the 3 V battery, where the lamp is hooked up to and the extra wires that seemed not to connect and oh, yes where the stereo sound (or stereo signal) is conneceted to and is that large Magnet stationary?
A detailed circuit diagram will indeed be the right place to start.

Much as I apprecite Bruce's help, inaccurate translations is as bad as injecting extra stuff or conjecturing on the behalf of the 'inventor'.

Still, let's just do this Doug and then if a good circuit / description is forthcoming then we can either proceed with joy or dismiss this as Darren says, another gimmick!

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 10:26:48 PM

Much as I apprecite Bruce's help, inaccurate translations is as bad as injecting extra stuff or conjecturing on the behalf of the 'inventor'.



@ Chris,

I never Translated.  He wrote to me only in English, and I posted every one of his messages to me on this thread for all to read and interpret as they see fit.

Also, a Portugese translation of a list of questions has been sent to brnbrade from Doug.

Thank you,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 10:29:33 PM
Question:  How did you measure the amps?

Answer:  No mesure. I no amper reader.



This is strange, his meter can do Amp readings as well, does he not know how to use it?   As in "I no good at reading meter?"   

Hmmm

EM



EM:

That statement was made a couple of weeks ago when he first posted his discovery and he did not have access to a ammeter.

chrisC

@ ChrisC

The video he posted some time ago shows the same meter we can now see in these pictures.

@ EM

The meter he has can measure DC ma, but not AC. That is why he cannot measure the output power. In a earlier post however, he mentions an output of 52 V and 1 A. So it's kind of contradictory...

@ Bruce

The more I look at the picture you posted (and sent me - Thanks) it seems to me that the orange wires are soldered to the buld terminals.

@ Rich

You can find the answers to many of your questions in the picture or in previous posts. Here is what I have gathered so far:

When he is feeding power to the coils, is he using only the battery supply shown, or is he using output from the radio at the same time?

Its either the battery supply or the output from the radio without the batteries.

When he's using output from the radio to power his coils is he using white noise?

No, he tunes to a specific station.

The radio he uses, what kind is it? Is it battery powered, or plugged into a wall?

He's using a Walkman type device, so presumably powered by 2 A cells.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 02, 2007, 10:39:21 PM
I sent an email to Brnbrade asking for a detailed schema and others informations. Waiting for reply. Then I will post in english here.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 10:40:34 PM
I'm afraid I have big doubts about this device being ou.


Darren

Darren,

Unless there is a hidden wire somewhere, how could you possibly light a 50 watts bulb with such brightness with only 2 A cells?

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 02, 2007, 10:47:02 PM
Jacob,

If you  saw the orange wires soldered to the bulb leads, that does restore my faith, very much.  I am looking for some aluminum for I am going to build this two coil deal this week.

And then I will know.  I think there is sufficient information to replicate.  We just need to know if he still has the capacitor between the batteries and input.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 02, 2007, 11:31:23 PM
Jacob,

If you  saw the orange wires soldered to the bulb leads, that does restore my faith, very much.  I am looking for some aluminum for I am going to build this two coil deal this week.

And then I will know.  I think there is sufficient information to replicate.  We just need to know if he still has the capacitor between the batteries and input.

Cheers,
Bruce

According to the pictures, it seem to work both ways: with or without the capacitor. In any event, if this setup is tricked, and that would be a very stupid thing to do, it would be at the junction between the battery holder wires and the yellow wires. The picture let us suppose that the batteries shown are the power source, but since we can't see the connection, the power source could be something else.

Jacob 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 12:40:26 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 03, 2007, 12:44:53 AM
Brnbrade:

Can you please give us a higher resolution picture (say several megapixel). At this resolution, I can't even read the voltmeter? Please, and better if there was a schematic of where the Caps are?

Thanks
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 03, 2007, 12:51:21 AM
Brnbrde:

D? uma olhada em suas mensagens privadas (PM).

Abra?os,

Douglas
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 12:58:20 AM
Now THAT is impressive!!  ;D

Brnbrade,

That is without the radio, so I take it that it is producing 56 volts AC??  Can't read the volt meter either. 

How did you start it up, the batteries?

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 12:59:08 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 01:34:59 AM
And no magnet either it seems...

Does the oscillation eventually dies out (when the capacitor is fully discharged) or does it continues to run? On the second picture, the voltage looks very low, so I guess it is on its way to depletion.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 01:48:57 AM
And no magnet either it seems...

Does the oscillation eventually dies out (when the capacitor is fully discharged) or does it continues to run? On the second picture, the voltage looks very low, so I guess it is on its way to depletion.

Jacob

Good point about the magnet.  Perhaps it was charged up  then the Magnet removed?

I would think the magnet would be needed?

Charging a capacitor and putting it on a voltmeter is not as impressive as lighting a 60 Watt bulb with two AA batteries, with all wires to be seen.

I wonder if bringing the magnet back will increase voltage.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 01:54:13 AM
brnbrade just send me this email:

"Hi Stefan
Yes, a i from Brasil.
My email has problems with the provider

I don't want to create problems in the forum.
If it is causing problems I leave.
I don't want to deceive. My pictures is good resolution and no  frauds.

regards"
==========

I answered via automatic translation from babelfish.altavista.com:

Hi brnbrade, permanece por favor em nosso forum. N?o h? nenhum problema que seu email n?o est? trabalhando! Satisfa?a assim o borne mais retratos e se voc? puder satisfazer uns retratos mais elevados da defini??o do borne e tamb?m afixar mais explana??es em sua l?ngua portuguese. Muitos agradecimentos adiantado para estes dispositivos maravilhosos! Considera??o, Stefan.


Hi brnbrade,
please stay, no problem that your email is not working !

So please post more pictures and if you can please post higher
resolution pictures and also post more explanations in your native
portuguese language.

Many thanks in advance for these wonderful devices !

Regards, Stefan.




Hi o brnbrade, permanece por favor em nosso forum. N?o h? nenhum problema que seu email n?o est? trabalhando! Satisfa?a assim o borne mais retratos e se voc? puder satisfazer uns retratos mais elevados da defini??o do borne e tamb?m afixar mais explana??es em sua l?ngua portuguese. Muitos agradecimentos adiantado para estes dispositivos maravilhosos! Considera??o, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 03, 2007, 02:06:58 AM
@All

Brnbrade answered some questions. He asked for patience, because he wants make more tests and this goes to delay between one to two weeks. After this, he will post the circuit.

About output voltage/amperage: The voltage is in picture, but he does not know how many output amperage because he dont have instruments to measure this current.

About sound connection: Stereo connection from amplifier. (he dont give more details)

He is trying several setups to improve the performance of its device.

He say that secret is booting the device :) Be patience.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 02:10:18 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 02:12:35 AM

He say that secret is booting the device :) Be patience.

Regards,

Doug

What does he mean by this ?

Does it mean it is difficult to get oscillations going and to keep  them going ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 02:19:20 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 03, 2007, 02:22:32 AM
@Stefan

He dont provide more informations about this.

He say only that the "secret" is how to boot the device.

IMPORTANT: He say also to follow the PATENT.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 03, 2007, 02:24:34 AM
Good job brnbrade,  keep experimenting  :)

I noticed some weird stuff with my coils as well.  I was getting a DC voltage, not AC, but it was Positive (+) sometimes when I energized, and at other times it was Negative (-).  

These transformer configurations are sure weird.  I will now try to replicate your setup exactly, with aluminum foil between the windings.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 02:32:47 AM
And no magnet either it seems...

Does the oscillation eventually dies out (when the capacitor is fully discharged) or does it continues to run? On the second picture, the voltage looks very low, so I guess it is on its way to depletion.

Jacob

Yes, the load reads ouver the 50v and decrease slowly, and persist 15v to 16v  ???

So, if I get it right, this setup runs for ever at around 15V? And what happens if we put a load on it?

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 02:33:57 AM
Yes,brnbrade,well done, please keep on experimenting and
try to post more explanations. You can also post this in Portuguese language
as Doug56 can translate it to us.

Yes, @EM I guess the secret is in brnbrade using the alufoil around the coils.
Maybe the eddy currents or the shielding of the electric, but not magnetic
fields is doing something..?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 02:36:31 AM
@brnbrade
what kind of iron rods did you use ?

Are these some kind of welding rods ?

Are these thoriated rods , so do these contain radioactive
elements ?

2. Did you use alufoil or aluminium tubes around the coils ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 03, 2007, 02:52:56 AM
Lenz's law. Tesla magnetic diode.

This may all sound familiar to some but incase you are not aware. When the magnetic field from the coil expands another field is formed around the aluminum. Now you have two of these, cross connected and also consider that all four fields are displacing the terrestrial ambient field. When these four fields collapse the ambient field also collapses into the cores.

Starting up may be a problem if the two signals with just the right phase relationship are not known. Better to hit it with some random signal and see what happens?

I can't say if this is an example of useable free energy but it is certainly interesting.

Keep up the good work BrnBrade!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 03:00:42 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 03:40:46 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 03:52:21 AM
... :-X
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 03:55:10 AM
@brnbrade
what kind of iron rods did you use ?

Are these some kind of welding rods ?

Are these thoriated rods , so do these contain radioactive
elements ?

2. Did you use alufoil or aluminium tubes around the coils ?

Many thanks.

Hi Stefan

what kind of iron rods did you use ?

Iron 

Are these some kind of welding rods ?

No.  common iron
Are these thoriated rods , so do these contain radioactive
elements ?

no, I will put pemanente magnetic in the core in the future 

2. Did you use alufoil or aluminium tubes around the coils ?
Alufoil
Yes,  Core -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> fine wire coil -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> Thick wire -> insulating -> enjoy

Many thanks.

Hi ,
many thanks for this information !
That really helps !
Now we can try to replicate it.

How many turns of wire did you use ?
In one posting was said 35 turns ?
Is this the big red wire ?

How many turns does the fine wire have ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 03:58:52 AM
Good job brnbrade.  I too will begin work on replication asap.  EM is hard at work also.

Do not get frustrated by our doubts or questions.  What you have going is awesome and we are excited to have you share with us what you have discovered.

Thank you.

You have it hooked to the exit of an stereo amplifier.  Now that is interesting.

@ All
Funny thing, I remember SM telling all of us to use mosfets to reproduce waves as if they were mini tube amps.  I have said that about, Oh, 20 times or so.  But this is coincidence I am sure...  ;)

@brnbrade
Do you start the oscillations with the amplifier?

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 03:59:03 AM
Hi brnbrade,
try to see, if you get any voltage between the 2 layers of alufoil.

Did you try to shortout the 2 alufoil layers or did you insolate it versus each other ?

I guess there could develop some kind of voltage between the 2 alufoil layers
in each rod setup and this might be a needed "stray capacitance" that might be
very important for the energy output.


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 04:37:45 AM
Hi all

I ask all that to want. Replicate and all can help that device develop.
The friends that possess oscilloscope and tools readers advanced, can help in the walk. 

Regards

Unless I missed something, it is rather difficult to do this without a drawing or schematic of what you have connected there. Why not post a drawing instead of a photo?

May I suggest for your own sake, and for the sake of others here trying to replicate and help you develop this (you did ask for people to replicate), that you STOP what you're doing at this point and draw out what you have done. Call this v1.0 if you like, but at least have one documented starting point.

It would take you no more than 5 minutes to scratch this out on a piece of paper, take a photo of it, and post it here.

OR, you can keep the frenzie going here by holding back as you mentioned. The choice is yours.

By the way, are you using any transistors or MOSFET's in this device?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 04:39:49 AM
 :-X
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 03, 2007, 04:47:49 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 04:55:49 AM
Hi Darren,
he posted his schematic over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg37778.html#msg37778

He tried to replicate the
MacFarland patent and now used alufoil as an additional layer and seems to have succeeded.

It seems to be the alufoil, that makes the difference.

I guess if we can get a selfrunner this way, it is easy to scale
up to over 50 Watts and I guess this will be a great device for the OverUnity Prize ?!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 04:59:40 AM
I'm afraid I have big doubts about this device being ou.


Darren

Darren,

Unless there is a hidden wire somewhere, how could you possibly light a 50 watts bulb with such brightness with only 2 A cells?

Jacob

Why is he so reluctant to post a drawing or schematic then? I believe that is enough to be suspicious.

It would not be too difficult to power a 12V, 50W bulb for a few minutes from 2 AA batteries with the right circuit. Keep that in mind folks.

Has he stated whether or not a switching device is being used? I have not seen any indication that he is, other than a power transistor sitting on his bench. If not, how is he getting an oscillation?

These are all questions that could be answered by a simple drawing.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 05:05:10 AM
Hi Darren,
he posted his schematic over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg37778.html#msg37778

He tried to replicate the
MacFarland patent and now used alufoil as an additional layer and seems to have succeeded.

It seems to be the alufoil, that makes the difference.

I guess if we can get a selfrunner this way, it is easy to scale
up to over 50 Watts and I guess this will be a great device for the OverUnity Prize ?!


Stefan, I already saw that. It is just a reiteration of the Cook patent. Am I missing something?

Where are the capacitors, the audio inputs, the battery, the transistor? etc. etc.

That is not a complete or accurate drawing of what he has there.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 03, 2007, 05:06:42 AM
Darren:

I believe Brnbrade is not trying to deceive. He has obviously found a way to improve on the MacFarland device using a modified (Al) material. However, he's probably not quite ready to fully disclose pending further tests; maybe like with Jacob suggested, when a load is applied, the result may not be what he was looking for? (purely conjecture on my part).

Well Barbrade, I hope you will just spend a few minutes and draw a pencilled diagram and tell us how your invention works. Please?

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 03, 2007, 05:17:16 AM
thanks for the layer description Brnbrade, that helps.   

I started winding but I missed an aluminum layer, so I got to take it apart and fix it.

Darren, he says the trick is in how you start it.  I thought about this and it could be quite interesting.  I bet we can do a model of this in PSpice, etc..

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 05:22:04 AM
Hi Darren,
he posted his schematic over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg37778.html#msg37778

He tried to replicate the
MacFarland patent and now used alufoil as an additional layer and seems to have succeeded.

It seems to be the alufoil, that makes the difference.

I guess if we can get a selfrunner this way, it is easy to scale
up to over 50 Watts and I guess this will be a great device for the OverUnity Prize ?!


Stefan, I already saw that. It is just a reiteration of the Cook patent. Am I missing something?

Where are the capacitors, the audio inputs, the battery, the transistor? etc. etc.

That is not a complete or accurate drawing of what he has there.

Darren

Look atthe drawing Earl did.

You just need only a foil capacitor, probably around 100 nF to 1 uF high voltage type
and 2 x 1.5 Volts batteries in series.

The audio input is only another test instead of the DC battery to see, if there is more power to
be coming out of this.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 05:34:03 AM
What Brnbrade is showing here is very very important indeed.

Four variations have been shown thus far.

1) Coils + 3v Battery, DC-DC 58 vdc out.
2) Coils + 3v Battery + Sound (two channel positive only) DC-AC 250V out.
3) Coils + Cap (330 uf 200v) + Cap (62 pf or uf(hard to see) 400v about 4-7v ac out
4) Coils + 4 Caps (hard to see values) about 20v ac out

It's as if he's showing the progression of his own new discoveries as they occur, showing that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's a picture of his meter that I found elsewhere and filled in the AC scale just in case there are other pictures with hard to see readings.

As far as his information goes, there should be more than enough to make a replication. The patent speaks for itself. Even though it is not exactly right, should be good to make tests.

@btenzer

Maybe you could use post #1 to maintan build specs an update as it progresses.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 06:20:08 AM
thanks for the layer description Brnbrade, that helps.   

I started winding but I missed an aluminum layer, so I got to take it apart and fix it.

Darren, he says the trick is in how you start it.  I thought about this and it could be quite interesting.  I bet we can do a model of this in PSpice, etc..

EM

Perhaps it could be SPICEd EM, but I still have no idea of what the circuit is. I must be dumb because I have not seen a diagram showing all the components.

Could you or someone else be so kind to draw one up? Sorry for my incompetance.

The question remains, why doesn't he post a simple diagram if he wants everyone to get online with him? Why keep everyone guessing?...and it does seem that people are still guessing.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Mannix on July 03, 2007, 06:46:21 AM


@ All
Funny thing, I remember SM telling all of us to use mosfets to reproduce waves as if they were mini tube amps.  I have said that about, Oh, 20 times or so.  But this is coincidence I am sure...  ;)



Sorry Bruce

At no time did Steven ever say to all of any body to use mosfets...he only ever said to me that  he used them after using tubes for initial tuning. That is the information ,in context,that I shared.

I know that you are excited But
please do not mis quote..and re interperet...this will be hard enough as it is.

brnbrade

you are going to have to give complete disclosure ..these people really want to duplicate what you have .....lots more pictures with the light on from lots of angles should keep them happy for a while

It looks so simple that any body could make it with out having to learn anything ...unlike a TPU! you the man..Im off to buy a recepie for pie...just in case!

thanks.



Lindsay Mannix

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 07:08:08 AM


@ All
Funny thing, I remember SM telling all of us to use mosfets to reproduce waves as if they were mini tube amps.  I have said that about, Oh, 20 times or so.  But this is coincidence I am sure...  ;)



Sorry Bruce

At no time did Steven ever say to all of any body to use mosfets...he only ever said to me that  he used them after using tubes for initial tuning. That is the information ,in context,that I shared.

I know that you are excited But
please do not mis quote..and re interperet...this will be hard enough as it is.

thanks.



Lindsay Mannix



@ Mannix

Yes I know that SM said to start with TUBES first.  How much of that do you see happening, besides yourself??

So, what do we have...  We have Mosfets and drivers being used in the ECD, unless I read my circuit wrong tonight and I am soldering up (actually my partner! LOL ) the pieces for nothing.  SO, let me make this very clear.  WE ARE using Mosfet and SM said:

"MOSFETS are better you know if you wanted to make an amplifier that behaved as though it was a tube amp but in a smaller size."

So, let me reiterate my point from earlier:  We need to incorporate what SM has said into what we are doing.  How?  Look at the wave that a tube amp puts out and look at our square wave.  Do you see any difference?  Well of course.  Why?  Because one is slightly rounded.  What are the other differences?  There are many..


@ EVERYONE ELSE
I have put together on the first post what is needed to replicate to the best of my ability.  If you can answer the questions I put on there, that would be great.  If you can draw pretty schematic that would be great, and I will gladly post it!

Happy, Happy Days!  (But hearing they hear not!  We need ears to hear and eyes to see)
Bruce 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 07:23:23 AM
Lindsay wrote:
Quote
I know that you are excited But
please do not mis quote..and re interperet...this will be hard enough as it is.

Exactly.

btw Bruce, which one is slightly rounded then, and how is that significant to the TPU and the ECD?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 07:35:03 AM
brnbade,

I'm not sure if you'll respond to any of my posts, and I'm sure you have 100's of PM's to attend to, but I wanted to ask just one simple and direct question.

I am really only interested in (and the only one that matters) brnbade's response to this, so hang back guys if that's ok.

I have no intention of trying to chase you away or discourage you, I'd just like to know the following:

WHY did you post about your device?

Eu n?o tenho nenhuma inten??o de tentar persegui-lo afastado ou para desanim?-lo, eu gostaria apenas a sei o seguinte:

Por que voc? escreveu sobre seu dispositivo?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
@btenzer

That's one hell of a post #1 you put together. And soooooo quick. Geez.
If only my secretary could do that. lol
Honestly great work, thanks.
By the way, if any of the ECD guys ever offered you a circuit, ask for two.

@Brnbrade

Great work. Go have a bear. Don't worry about the noise here. This is only an internal form of communication between alot of smart people scratching their heads. Just do what you know how. Keep cool. We have alot of info for now to make a good replica, so life is good. Be happy. You are doing good.

Now where can I find two big nails..........
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:17:37 AM
@Darren

It is because he was a student of Erfinder, as Otto was. And he believes that is what Erfinder would want.  If you need to hear it in Portugese, that is fine!  ;)


@Wattsup
Thank you for the compliment!  Those come hard around here!  LOL

I still need help in figuring a guess for the fine wire.  If some human being out there can look at the first pictures, and you have experience with wire, and pm me the aproximates size, that would be awesome!  Thanks.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:32:59 AM
@ Darren
AND also Darren, to answer your question of how it is significant for the ECD, is an incredible question to begin with.

We/I want to incorporate as much of SM's clueology (new word! :) ) into the ECD.  If SM says that it will make a difference for the "tpu" and since no one is going to "draw a schematic" for us of how that works, we must "experiment".  And I suggest experimenting by doing Whatever is needed, to the circuit, to mimic a tube amp

Now, besides the look of the wave itself, here are a few other considerations.  (I am going to this trouble for all of you reading this, in the hopes someone can hear.)
Solid state switches tend to have a damped oscillation or spike on the leading edge of the wave. This spike is generally the creator of noise and harmonics.

Vacuum tubes - the leading edge would only rise to the plate voltage and chop off there. As long as the power supply was clean tube switches had very clean outputs. Those that used the heater element as the cathode would also impress the power for the heater element on the output waveform.

Study please more differences.  There ARE many.

Happy Days!  And good night...
Bruce   ;D
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 11:32:06 AM
Hi All,

here is a revised drawing 2007-07-03.

Enjoy.

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 03, 2007, 11:49:23 AM
@Bruce,
Thin wire looks like 0.4 to 0.5mm diameter.
Thick wire looks like single core from 13 Amp twin and earth ring main cable (2.5 sq. mm?)
I think the reason the meter shows zero volts when the bulb is lit is because the meter is on DC and with a pure AC signal this will balance out to zero.

@Earl,
I think you may be right about the starter. From the patent you can start by moving the magnet into position, unless I read it wrong.

Has anyone seen Fig.2 on the patent?
I will be buying some hardware (steel rod, ali tube - rest I have) after work to try this idea out.
[Edit] Have bought some 10mm steel rod and 12mm OD ali tube - may need to file the rod down to get it in. Almost fits - first few mm.

This has so much in common with the TPU and from a patent thats 136 years old, wow!  :)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Thaelin on July 03, 2007, 12:52:08 PM
Hi All:
   Did a small test tonite of a bifilar wound coil. Reason I feel it belongs here as well is that the internal core is, you guessed it, aluminum solid 1/4". Was mainly seeing what would be the difference with an AL core as opposed to a CU core. Well output around 80v. Signals input from opposite ends.
   Now this is the part that is weird. Rod is 24" long with 4 layers of twin #20 stranded. Scope is on each end of the rod. This AL thing is starting to push my imagination around a bit. Anyhow, Bruce... so here is two ocurances of the opposite signal injection showing great results.

The other coil was the same idea but bifilar wound on a pitsfield coil with a whole lot of turns of wire wound around the center hole at 90 degrees to the bifilar pair.

sugra
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: duff on July 03, 2007, 02:05:04 PM
.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 02:41:08 PM

I am testing all of the types possible of configurations.
Attempts and mistakes. And in this it goes and it comes I saw strange things.
The capacitors seem to hold the load for 12v to 16v. This dissipating energy.


The reason voltage seems to stay constant at 12 to 16 volts for a longer time is caracteristic of the normal discharge curve of a capacitor. But it probably dies out eventually. Much faster if a load is applied. My guesss is that brnbrade is currently trying to feed back some of the output voltage toward the input to keep the device operating, and until he succeeds, he's unwilling to post a definitive configuration, because it keeps changing.

Still, we know that the basic principle is solid since it rest on a 140 years old patent. There is much experimenting do be done here...

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 02:39:40 PM
@ Bruce.

I was hoping to here from our friend on my question, but in the mean time, thank you for the mind-meld response.

Regarding the FET's, so you are saying that SM's use of tubes was key because they suppress the leading-edge spikes and damped oscillations?

Yes, that is possible, and thanks for bringing that up. Sometimes you DO surprise me.  :P

However, keep in mind that the response on the tube Plate or FET Drain is largely dependant on what they are driving, i.e. an inductor, resistive load, a tank load etc. For example, you will be hard pressed to find spikes or damped oscillations with a FET driving a pure resistive load....same with a tube. Insert an inductor with a finite self-capcitance though, and watch the wave-show! As you say though, perhaps a tube is less susceptable to these due to rounding of the corners at the top.

If this is the case, I have some experience in achieving this effect. Perhaps I'll play with it and see if I can do it.

Cheers,
Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 03:50:56 PM

Starting up may be a problem if the two signals with just the right phase relationship are not known. Better to hit it with some random signal and see what happens?



BEP,

You have to think differently about this. There is no need to inject signals into this device. This is a self multi-oscillating circuit which develops its own frequencies. All that is needed according to the inventor is to apply a magnetic field. That's why it can theorically be started with just a permanent magnet. Therefore it's important to fully understand and control this process because it is closely related to the startup mechanism of the TPU.

I can't believe that this thread was moved out of the TPU forum section.

@ Stefan

Could you please reinsert this thread  where it rightfully belongs. The McFarland patent was brought to the attention of everyone in the Steven Mark, master of magnetics thread last year. Here is the original post. It has always be a fundamental part of an integral replication of the TPU and still is.

Guys,

You have to look at this attached pdf file about US patent 119825 issued in... 1871. I found this thanks to a link posted by lynx2000. It is extremely interesting. Here are a few quotes from it:

"My invention relates to the combination of two or more simple or compound helices (coils - i.e.: control coils) and iron cores  (collectors) or magnets in such a manner as to produce a constant electric current without the aid of a galvanic battery."

About the collector equivalent:

"The iron core may be a solid bar or a bundle of iron wire  (i.e.: multi-strand wire), the latter giving higher tension..."

And guess how we start the power generation process with this setup...

"The mode of producing or starting the action in the helices consist in the use of a steel  (i.e.: permanent) or electro-magnet..."

This thing can be started with a magnet!!!! And it is physically identical to the TPU : an outer coil, an inner coil, and a collector. Plus, it is easy to build, so easy to test.

Enjoy!

Jacob


Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 03, 2007, 04:10:36 PM
So now he has it running on caps?

Well, I have my plate in front of me. All of my words are piled on it.

If someone can replicate these results and explain it, I'll eat every last one.

Anxiously waiting.

The "taking a break for two weeks" thing is familiar, though. The diagram, shouldn't be that hard to scribble out in notepad. How frustrating.

Earl, in your diagram, should power be input via the primary and output via the secondary, to the next device's primary? (which may or may not be inverted)

Basically what you have done is a couple conductors with chokes in them..

brnbrade, please post a cct before you leave for your break. if you have no ammeter, that's fine someone else can replicate and test if you post your cct.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 04:12:44 PM

Unless I missed something, it is rather difficult to do this without a drawing or schematic of what you have connected there. Why not post a drawing instead of a photo?

May I suggest for your own sake, and for the sake of others here trying to replicate and help you develop this (you did ask for people to replicate), that you STOP what you're doing at this point and draw out what you have done. Call this v1.0 if you like, but at least have one documented starting point.

It would take you no more than 5 minutes to scratch this out on a piece of paper, take a photo of it, and post it here.

OR, you can keep the frenzie going here by holding back as you mentioned. The choice is yours.

By the way, are you using any transistors or MOSFET's in this device?

Darren

Darren,

I agree with you that brnbade hasn't published much details about his setup. But fortunately, we have pictures and the original patent. Together, they tell the whole story. So if you read through the patent, carefully examine the pictures and factor in the additional information that was provided (i.e.: use of alufoil), you'll be able to reproduce this setup very easily.

I, just like you, like to fully analyse any idea that comes up to make sure that it is a sound concept. But where there is smoke, there is also fire. There is something real happening here. Sure, we can find faults in the way this is being done. But there will always be. Let's rather try to find and isolate what works. If we want to move forward, we must all push in the same direction. Uniting our efforts will benefit all of us.

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 04:20:06 PM

It would not be too difficult to power a 12V, 50W bulb for a few minutes from 2 AA batteries with the right circuit. Keep that in mind folks.

Darren

Darren,

I need your help here. I have no idea how this would be possible. Because it would imply pulling upward of 10-15 amps from those small batteries and maintaining that draw for a few minutes. Plus, let's keep in mind that there is no high speed switching component being used here. Can you please explain how it can be done. Thanks!

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 04:31:00 PM
What Brnbrade is showing here is very very important indeed.

Four variations have been shown thus far.

1) Coils + 3v Battery, DC-DC 58 vdc out.
2) Coils + 3v Battery + Sound (two channel positive only) DC-AC 250V out.
3) Coils + Cap (330 uf 200v) + Cap (62 pf or uf(hard to see) 400v about 4-7v ac out
4) Coils + 4 Caps (hard to see values) about 20v ac out


Wattsup,

If you go back at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that the output with the 3v battery pack is 52 V AC. In fact, the output will never be DC or at least pure DC under any circumstances unless of course it is rectified and/or filtered.

Thanks for the multimeter picture. I was (unactively) looking for it.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 03, 2007, 04:54:42 PM
BEP,
You have to think differently about this. There is no need to inject signals into this device.

Agreed. As BrnBrade has shown us there are different modes. Passing a magnet one way or the other is a kick. One direction may yeild + while the other -. Hitting it with sine should create sine. And the DC should be like DC from a bridge rectifier, like in the Tesla magnetic rectifier.
For the aluminum usage I refer to 'radioactive batteries'. Radioactive batteries should have been called 'radiant energy batteries'. Also aluminum is interesting enough in magnetic fields because of the Lorentz forces involved.
All just speculation, of course. That is all I do, right?  ;D
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 05:23:11 PM
Good Morning guys!

@ Earl
Thank you for the circuit.  I put it on post #1, our build page.  Please check it with ALL info on page 1 and check it for accuracy.  Great job!

@Rob
Thank you for the aprox wire sizes!  I put it on page 1

@ EVERYONE
SEE page 1, post 1 to build!!

I have turned it into our build page and we have ALL the information we need to replicate.  Thank you.

Hi All:
   Did a small test tonite of a bifilar wound coil. Reason I feel it belongs here as well is that the internal core is, you guessed it, aluminum solid 1/4". Was mainly seeing what would be the difference with an AL core as opposed to a CU core. Well output around 80v. Signals input from opposite ends.
   Now this is the part that is weird. Rod is 24" long with 4 layers of twin #20 stranded. Scope is on each end of the rod. This AL thing is starting to push my imagination around a bit. Anyhow, Bruce... so here is two ocurances of the opposite signal injection showing great results.

The other coil was the same idea but bifilar wound on a pitsfield coil with a whole lot of turns of wire wound around the center hole at 90 degrees to the bifilar pair.

sugra


Please, everyone pay attention to what Sugra has posted!  It is more confirmation, of another TPU ingrediet and other FE devices!!!  Thank you Sugra.   ;D


Happy, Happy days!!  (P.S.  Many many similarities to the TPU)
Bruce  :)
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 05:59:17 PM
So now he has it running on caps?

Well, I have my plate in front of me. All of my words are piled on it.

If someone can replicate these results and explain it, I'll eat every last one.

Anxiously waiting.

The "taking a break for two weeks" thing is familiar, though. The diagram, shouldn't be that hard to scribble out in notepad. How frustrating.

Earl, in your diagram, should power be input via the primary and output via the secondary, to the next device's primary? (which may or may not be inverted)

Rich, no power should be input.  It is the Creator's aether which is the input power.  The only thing necessary is to perturb its equilibrium and then it will start oscillating by itself.  This assumes that your losses are not excessive (and that this device works).  I suggest everyone reading Harold Aspen's talk that he gave at the Berlin FE conference.  He refers to the Cook patent and presents his own idea how to build a device using high voltage and cross-linked concentric capacitors.  You could say his idea is the dual of Cook's idea.  Either low voltage with coils or high voltage with concentric capacitors.  He explains his concept of aether.  Highly recommended to read the last part where he talks about Cook as well as his concentric capacitor idea and how he sees aether.

You do not need batteries nor stereo, nor anything.  Just a perturbing impulse to start it going and a permanent load to keep it from stopping.

Bruce, please add the PDF from Harold ASPEN to your post #1 on Page 1.

Regards, Earl

Basically what you have done is a couple conductors with chokes in them..

brnbrade, please post a cct before you leave for your break. if you have no ammeter, that's fine someone else can replicate and test if you post your cct.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 06:05:20 PM
@Jacob

Thanks for pointing that out. Actually it's not 52 but 24 vac. I looked closer and here are all the pictures which I have now indicated as Trial 1 to 5 so we know how to refer to them. I call them trials because I am sure Brnbrade has some more tricks up his sleeve (or his t-shirt). lol

Five variations have been shown thus far.

Trial 1) Coils + Magnet + Cap + 3v Battery, DC-DC 13 vdc out.
Trial 2) Coils + Magnet + Cap + 3v Battery, DC-DC 24 vac out.
Trial 3) Same as Trial #1 - Magnet + Sound (two channel positive only) DC-AC 250V out.
Trial 4) Coils + Cap (330 uf 200v) + Cap (62 pf or uf(hard to see) 400v about 4-7v ac out
Trial 5) Coils + 4 Caps (hard to see values) about 20v ac out

@all

If any of you have figured out any of the other cap values, please refer to them with the proper Trial #. Please let me know if there are any other mistakes.

Also, you guys should stop asking Brnbrade for this and that and just concentrate on what there is. Gimme Gimme never gets. The guy needs a break to bring this up to par so we have to give him some slack. Complaining about it will not work.

Oh yeh, I found two nails? Now I can start building. lol

Title: Brnbrade Coil/Overunity? _where output
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 06:35:53 PM
Hi All,

I am a believer in galvantic separation of the output coil(s).

In this case make another winding over the other two windings, few turns for low voltage, more turns for higher voltage.

I suggest two identical output coils, one over each rod, connected in series for more voltage or in parallel for more current.  This would give identical load for each rod.

Want 12V to charge a battery and 220V for the fridge, then wind 4 additional coils, two on each rod.  Rectify, buffer, and convert as necessary.

Don't be afraid to experiment.  If Brnbrade and Sugra can have intuition, so can YOU.  Take off the horse blinders and start building instead of asking for more details and a schematic.  See my signature below.  Destiny helps those who help themselves.

Don't think it will work?  Then build Aspen's idea of concentric cross-over capacitors and ignite the thing with a spark plug and HV coil.  Document your research and post back to the forum.

Prefer to build SM's TPU, fine do it.  Prefer to try your own idea, fine do it.

Regards, Earl
Title: Brnbrade Coil_aluminum wind
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 06:52:44 PM
Hi All,

when winding the aluminum layer be careful and pay attention what you are doing.
You may have to do this several times because:

Aluminum layer can be wound with more than one turn, start shorts out the end.
This gives a low impedance one-turn short circuit.  This is usually regarded by Engineers as a no-no.  In this case, who knows?

Before reaching the start point again, insulate the second layer from the first so there is no short circuit.  Pay attention that nowhere does the second layer make contact with the first.

Experiment and tell us your results and effects !!!

There are FE rumors that alternating layers of aluminum / insulator / alu / insulator / right next to each other ........  can have good effects.  So another experiment is instead of just one wrap of alu foil, try a multilayer sandwich.  There is a rumor that glass as an insulator in such a multilayer wrap is beneficial, in this case try to get some glass fiber wallpaper to use as insulation.  DIY & Baumarkt usually have glass fiber wallpaper.  Or just use whatever you have.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 07:27:41 PM
@all

I did a few phorensic dimensional measurements - CSI style.

Took a reference off the transitor on Trial #5 - center circle being 3/4".

Came up the the following dimensions for the coils.

May not be totally exact but it's the best one can do with what is given.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 03, 2007, 07:39:37 PM

It would not be too difficult to power a 12V, 50W bulb for a few minutes from 2 AA batteries with the right circuit. Keep that in mind folks.

Darren
I need your help here. I have no idea how this would be possible. Because it would imply pulling upward of 10-15 amps from those small batteries and maintaining that draw for a few minutes. Plus, let's keep in mind that there is no high speed switching component being used here. Can you please explain how it can be done. Thanks!

@All,
So just how much power can you pull out of two AA batteries?
I have just completed a test using various NiMH batteries as the other zinc carbon batteries I have are nearly flat, perhaps someone can test these:

Cell = 1 x AA size GP 2700 mAh 1.2V
Test load = 0.8 Ohm resistor (3 x 2.2R in parallel)
Output = 1.25A @ 1V
 
I tried heavier loads but the voltage drops further, so 1.25 watts seems about the limit.
2 x AA cells should provide about 2.5 watts but this may cause the batteries to explode because of the relatively high current draw.
So Darren, hopefully you are correct, with the right circuit you CAN light a 24V car headlamp halogen bulb. The right circuit being a TPU!

Regards
Rob  
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 03, 2007, 08:04:59 PM
Rob,

Thanks for the info. I agree with you that drawing that much current from the cells would be dangerous. Actually, you probably noticed some overheating during testing didn't you?

Rich, no power should be input.  It is the Creator's aether which is the input power. 

Thanks for the quote Earl. I just love it when I hear stuff like that! 

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:17:15 PM
@ Earl
@ Wattsup

I have updated page 1 with your information.  Thank you both.

@ALL
I will no longer post any more "Theories" of operation on page 1.  Only build information to assist replication.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 03, 2007, 08:26:02 PM

@ALL
I will no longer post any more "Theories" of operation on page 1.  Only build information to assist replication.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce

Bruce:

Thank you for the good job in putting the build info. together for easy access. I also want to thank you for your time, channeling excitement into this Forum and sometimes, even your out of this world suggestions.

However, some of us would rather not hear of wildly speculative theories unless there really is really good grounds for suggesting it. Out of context, these things are very confusing. What we need is FOCUS and Quality Test results which are reproducible and hopefully quite explainable when the code is cracked!

Nevertheless, great job and well done! Thanks.

chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 03, 2007, 08:28:32 PM
We all know you can light a bulb with unusual low voltage if that voltage is pulsed and coil actions increase the voltage. The key part was 'pulsed' which implies to most that it must be switched to have the effect.

The very first radio detector had no such switch/diode/rectifier. It was an LC circuit by Tesla and others with different variations. Circuit-wise that is what is going on here. The current is indeed being switched. You must also consider the capacitance factors introduced by the method of layering. So basically I'm saying that you can have the same effect as an active switch by using a passive circuit. Tesla did it with his magnetic rectifier and his regenerative tank receiver. And guess what - with the right arrangement there is nothing faster.

The thing that usually becomes apparent is that the Watts aren't there. i.e. the voltage drops to almost nothing when a low impedance load is applied.

I urge you all to not stray far from BrnBrade's construction until you understand how it works. When you do there are improvements and ways to enhance.

Knowledge is useless if there is no understanding and constructive application.

I'm sure when we saw our first spider some ran and others bowed before it and sang mantra's. Now we just step on it. All for the same reason - we don't understand.

If the spider had self-awareness he probably thought we were idiots  ;D
(NO disrespect intended for anyone's beliefs! I DON'T know it all but I try to learn)

As far as TPU/Pipes. I have already found that precise control is mandatory and I already know that both are one in the same. Either way we are creating a set of highly interactive toroidal fields.

Building these coils will be very instructive for those that apply the lessons to the SM device.

Good Luck ALL!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 08:32:58 PM
Y'all saw Daves videos of him lighting bulbs with a small TPU-shaped device?

How large do you suppose those batteries were inside it?

I'm just amazed sometimes how folks will rationalize this or that, when if they just took a step back and pondered things for a moment, they'd perhaps see things for what they are...or aren't for that matter.

As long as we're all having fun :)

I hope our friend has cracked the Cook coil as he seems to be saying.

As there seems to be a few building this thing already, what are you all using as your reference to wire it with all the components?

Surely one of you builders out there could redraw (and post) the entire device as per your own build? I'm sure it would be much appreciated by all.

Bruce, how is your build coming?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:33:31 PM

@ALL
I will no longer post any more "Theories" of operation on page 1.  Only build information to assist replication.

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
@ Chris,  Thank you...Kind of!  LOL  Please reread BOLD above.  Thank you!  Cheers.

Hello BEP,
@ EVERYONE
I concur completely with BEP on this.  Build to specs first.  Then try to understand.  Then "size it up!"  My favorite part!! ;D

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 03, 2007, 08:34:28 PM

It would not be too difficult to power a 12V, 50W bulb for a few minutes from 2 AA batteries with the right circuit. Keep that in mind folks.

Darren

Darren,

I need your help here. I have no idea how this would be possible. Because it would imply pulling upward of 10-15 amps from those small batteries and maintaining that draw for a few minutes. Plus, let's keep in mind that there is no high speed switching component being used here. Can you please explain how it can be done. Thanks!

Jacob


Hi ,
I tried a while back what current you can get maximum from
a AA NiMH cell when you use a digital meter at the 10 Ampere range.
It showed a shortcircuit current via this meter of 5 amps maximum.

Unforunately I did not measure the inner resistor of this digital ampmeter
and also not then the voltage at the cell,
but let?s say, you have one of the newest AA NiMH cells and they can deliver
1 Volts at 5amps then that will just get you 5 Watts,so 2 cells would only get you at maximum
around 10 Watts and brnbrade?s lightbulb looked a bit brighter than that.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:51:23 PM


Bruce, how is your build coming?

Darren

Hi Darren, and I am glad you asked... :)

My ECD is finished. Wired and the circuit soldered as of last night.  (Thanks to my partner).  Tonight we experiment with it for the first time.

Also, tomorrow I look for some scrap AL tubing to cut, on my farm.  I have a bit of everything every where.  I have the wife and son taking a large old speaker apart today, to salvage the magnet.

And me... I am at work!  ;)

How is your build going Darren?  Will it be real or simulated?  (Kidding of course! ;) )

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: dani1 on July 03, 2007, 09:05:20 PM
Daniel McFarland Cook - It was already posted

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.overunity.com&q=Daniel+McFarland+Cook&sa=Search&sitesearch=&client=pub-2734280293205008&forid=1&channel=6216229028&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&flav=0000&sig=9MMmaVuXZs6964HO&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 09:53:30 PM
@all

Decided to read McFarlands patent again before I build. I just realized that he is using the term "Secondary" to designated what we call the Primary and the term "Primary" to designated what we call the Secondary.

Geez, that would explain why Brnbrade was referring to the thicker red wire as the Secondary and by consequence, we were getting confused.

Or, am I dreaming or what? Very interesting indeed.

Anyways, read the patent. Short read. There are many ways to make this.

@btentzer

I don't see what the commotion is all about since this thread is off the SM topic, it will only create less noise.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: tao on July 03, 2007, 10:55:45 PM
The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

i also experimented with these and i never got it to work.
Marco.


Anyone ever notice that McFarland speaks of a 'circuit D' in the diagrams, but there ISN'T anything labeled 'D' in his patent.

Perhaps that is where the idea that the patent was modified came from?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 11:03:22 PM
@mramos

First off, I was going to  use two nails as the cores. But I decided to use bailing wire instead, I cut them 12 inches each and using 16 wires per core. McFarland patent indicates this is also suitable. In fact the patent states that almost anything goes and McFarland was talking about using very large cores upto 12 feet long. But let's start small.

I will be using aluminium foil. I am just wondering about the insulator. I will use regular electrical tape but I hope the foil does not get ripped up too much.

I will also try to make a circular unit with center bailing wire core.

@tao

Hey, I read that also but after reading so many Tesla patents, etc., what I think he is referring to is that in order to initiate the build up the power, you can use a reostat to reduce current going to load which he refers to as D. This does not have to be on the patent since any kind of load and  load control could be D. He refers to the whole of the device, reostat and load as the "circuit" whereas we would refer to the circuit as being the electronic part of device.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 11:12:00 PM
Hi tao,

Jacob already mentioned that a couple pages back.

However, I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions that this omission was done deliberately. I've seen many patents that have these types of errors in them.

It's easy enough to have planned to include a part in a patent, only later to decide it will not be there, but they forget to edit the text, especially since it cost money to do so any time you want to make a change. Or they just forgot to edit the text.

Anyhow, I'm just suggesting that there are other possible reasons for the decrepancy, and we shouldn't always assume it was for suppression reasons.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 11:16:36 PM
Our friend seems to have gone silent...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: TheOne on July 03, 2007, 11:25:06 PM
The talk goes around the Farland Cook patents has been deliberatly changed.....
I do not know the reference source of where i heard it, but i am sure it was about these particulair coils.

i also experimented with these and i never got it to work.
Marco.


Anyone ever notice that McFarland speaks of a 'circuit D' in the diagrams, but there ISN'T anything labeled 'D' in his patent.

Perhaps that is where the idea that the patent was modified came from?

YEs i was trying to understand about what he was talking with the D since everything stop to C :)

It's like a diagram is missing from the patent
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 11:32:23 PM
A good sign.  Brnbrade is busy winding and soldering.

People who have never had an OU device on their table just can not understand.

As some one who has held an OU device in my hands, I can assure you that shivers
go up and down your spine and you have the funiest feeling that you have ever had
in your entire life.  Don't assume that life is as usual for Brnbrade.  You can't put yourself in his shoes because it is impossible to understand until it happens to you.

No, don't ask me any questions about the OU device.  Sorry.

Regards, Earl
Our friend seems to have gone silent...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 03, 2007, 11:43:34 PM
A good sign.  Brnbrade is busy winding and soldering.

Our friend seems to have gone silent...

Hmm,

So Bruce knows what brnbade is thinking, and Earl knows what Brnbade is doing.

Perhaps the two of you together then could produce a drawing of brnbade's coils, since you have these connections to his mind?

btw, our friend appears to be online as I post this.
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 11:49:34 PM
A good sign.  Brnbrade is busy winding and soldering.

Our friend seems to have gone silent...

Hmm,

So Bruce knows what brnbade is thinking, and Earl knows what Brnbade is doing.

Perhaps the two of you together then could produce a drawing of brnbade's coils, since you have these connections to his mind?

Already done, see page one, post one.
Earl


btw, our friend appears to be online as I post this.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 04, 2007, 12:06:12 AM
@Stefan,
I think if you had check the voltage across the terminals of the cell then I estimate the voltage would have been less than 50mV.
I think that the older style NiCd will give a higher current than the current NiMh but I think Brnbrade was using zinc carbon.

@Jacob,
I had the cell connected for just seconds in case it blew apart.

@All
Progress:
1. 12mm OD x 225mm aluminum tube.
2. 1 layer of PVC tape.
3. Primary 0.56mm enamell coated wire, 320 turns.
4. 1 layer of pvc tape.
5. Around 800mm length of foil wrapped around the primary.
6. 1 layer of PCV tape.
7. 2700mm of 2.5 sq.mm pvc insulated wire, 40 turns
8. Testing starts tomorrow night - I'll post the results.

Note: Using the cordless drill for the primary cut down the winding to about 2 minutes per tube. You just need a drill that will accept a 12mm bit.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 12:47:03 AM
Earl,

I already saw your drawing yesterday.

If your drawing is complete and as per brnbade's build, then why are there question marks and unconnected parts on it  ??? I wouldn't be asking if one of the builders could kindly produce a drawing, if one already existed that was complete.

If we go by the 4 variations that have been identified, it looks like you have attempted to draw #1....Coils and battery.

So what's left to be determined, is where the battery is connected, and if there are any additional connections to terminals 1 and 3. Does anyone know?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 02:14:46 AM
Earl,

I already saw your drawing yesterday.

If your drawing is complete and as per brnbade's build, then why are there question marks and unconnected parts on it  ??? I wouldn't be asking if one of the builders could kindly produce a drawing, if one already existed that was complete.

If we go by the 4 variations that have been identified, it looks like you have attempted to draw #1....Coils and battery.

So what's left to be determined, is where the battery is connected, and if there are any additional connections to terminals 1 and 3. Does anyone know?

Darren

Darren
There are only four options.  Pick one!  LOL  an experimenter can try each one.  We are not "blueprint" bound.  Sheeesh..Just build it for yourself, or hold your pipes!  (every pun intended) Someone soon will reproduce hopefully and draw you a "proper" schematic ready for the "simulator".. ;D
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 04, 2007, 02:17:02 AM
Well, I suppose the good news is, you can recycle that into a tesla coil if it doesn't work.

That'd be sweet.

@brnbrade, please confirm whether or not Earl's diagram is correct. Also if you have any details to add about where the bat is connected that would be nice. Also what type of radio did you use when you powered your coil with a radio? And was the output speaker output or headphone output.

Please, NOBODY ELSE ANSWER, I am not interested in spokesperson's opinions.

If you want to answer in portugese or spanish that's fine, I can translate portugese. And I can read spanish.

Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 02:58:04 AM
Earl,

I already saw your drawing yesterday.

If your drawing is complete and as per brnbade's build, then why are there question marks and unconnected parts on it  ??? I wouldn't be asking if one of the builders could kindly produce a drawing, if one already existed that was complete.

If we go by the 4 variations that have been identified, it looks like you have attempted to draw #1....Coils and battery.

So what's left to be determined, is where the battery is connected, and if there are any additional connections to terminals 1 and 3. Does anyone know?

Darren

Darren
There are only four options.  Pick one!  LOL  an experimenter can try each one.  We are not "blueprint" bound.  Sheeesh..Just build it for yourself, or hold your pipes!  (every pun intended) Someone soon will reproduce hopefully and draw you a "proper" schematic ready for the "simulator".. ;D

You're completely missing the point Bruce.

Also, I have no intention on simulating the Cook patent at this point.

If and when brnbade produces a complete schematic (pick any version), then I'll decide whether to put any further time into it.

Until then, IMO brnbade has shown us nothing more than the already existing and previously discussed (months ago) Cook patent.

Perhaps you could do that mind-meld thing again with him, and tell us where he has the battery connected  ;D

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 03:00:30 AM
Hi Mr. Amos, did you try to put magnets on one end of the iron nails as Brnbrade did it ? I wonder what polarity his ferrite disc magnets had ? Opposing or attracting , if you go from one rod to the next one ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 03:02:26 AM
@Jacob,
will move this thread again to the TPU thread, when I am again at my PC tommorow. Am now only on my PDA.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 03:20:07 AM
Brnbade has a stack of ceramic disc magnets stacked to each left side  of his ironrods as you can see in his pics, if you look closer. The question still is, which polarity do they have and what was the winding direction of his coils ? This plays an important role. If you made that wrong, the effects could cancel out..
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 04:11:04 AM
@All
In case you agree this may pertain to part of what is going on...

I am not where I can do extensive test but I have done the following:
1. Apply a thin film of Al varnish to an AL tube
2. Wrap a few turns of varnish coated copper wire around it (with the Al varnish still sticky)
3. Check for voltage and find DC volts as in a galvanic battery.

I looked at the bottle of varnish and it contains Cupric Oxide for color and the varnish is labeled as costic.

Copper + Aluminum + acid = battery. My lunch was over so I don't know if it could be charged. A quick Google indicates the right combination could create a crude but effective diode  as a P-Channel and may also exhibit solar cell like properties.

I don't know how this may relate to oscillation, yet.

And since I can't test now I have two thoughts that someone may be able to verify.

Judging by the build page showing the numbers of varnish joints between dissimilar metals - having a respectible DC voltage appear with no signal may not be unreasonable.

Since aluminum is between coils the induction from one coil to the next winding may be reversed. Since an increasing/decreasing field applied to Al creates an opposing field in the Al the mag field from the Al to the next winding should be reversed of how we think induction works from one coil to another. Take the small coil wires and reverse their connections to the other coil  ???

I'll try it when I am home. I have not used Aluminum varnish before.

Use it or blow it off - your choice  :)


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 04:28:36 AM
@BEP,
what is Al varnish ?
Please explain in detail.

Does it put out more voltage or current in sunlight ?
Yes, CuO is a semiconductor and could be used in solarcells.

@MeggerMan
well built rods,
the question is, if the aluminium tubes are not to thick.
I guess Brnbrade just used thin alufoil wound around his isolated iron rods...

Too bad, he did not tell us, how many windings( or layers) of alufoil he wound
around it. Could all be important..
and how his winding directions of the coils was.

But to have oscillations you have to wind these coils this way, that
the transformer action supports positive feedback.
Also it is probably very important to have the 2 rods
pretty near each other, so the fields from them can interact and
the left side magnets can also interact and thus the rods have the right
premagnetisation levels.

Maybe it is working via the amplification of Barkhausen noise spikes, so
you have to get the iron rods into the right BH range, where they just want to
toggle ( flip) back and forth their Weiss?s districts,so you have to have the right
amounts of magnets at the side, maybe with a gap and not directly connected...

I really could only imagine, that the only way you get it to work is
to selftune this arangement to the about 180 Khz of Barkhausen noise jumps
and amplifying this via this backlooped transformer setup.

I don?t believe, that this thing puts out DC voltage, but it is probably just oscillating
in the Khz range, maybe on a lower or higher harmonics of the 180 Khz Barkhausen noise jumps.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 04:40:31 AM
@BEP,
what is Al varnish ?

Aluminum or Aluminium varnish is a protective coating applied to metals. You see varnish of another sort on magnet wire - very thin almost plastic like coating.

Al varnish is made to protect Aluminum and prevent oxidation. I suspect it causes oxidation to form initially - as part of that process.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 04:42:02 AM
Hi guys,

Take a look at the brnbrade photo,  I TURNED UP THE LIGHTS DOWN BELLOW  :)

Do you see anything disturbing?    ???

When we called him on his lightbulb photo he came back with some capacitor photos.  Why the change?  

I'm not interested in capacitor photos, NO,  I can get a photo like his easily.  I charge the cap and hook the voltmeter that bearly drains the caps.   He even has electrolitic caps on there, lots of charge !!!
I think what he did in the photo picture, he hooked up his radio to it, or maybe a batteri, to the yellow cables.

He does have AC, but you know what,  I GOT AC TOO !!!!     Freaking 60 Hz !!!!  Not 250 Volts but 5 Volts, but my coil is smaller.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 04:49:03 AM
Interesting theory BEP, galvanic action, hmmm

You know what,  brnbrade described the layers he used, and there was INSULATION ON EITHER SIDE OF HIS ALUMINUM.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 04:51:22 AM
I see your point EMDevices.
I also see in this photo that the small wire coils are cross connected as I now suspect they should be because of the aluminum layers.
 
We should keep our eyes open, by all means! Sharp Eyes you have!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 04:54:34 AM
Here is my coil, if you're curious.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 04:54:41 AM
@BEP,
what is Al varnish ?

Aluminum or Aluminium varnish is a protective coating applied to metals. You see varnish of another sort on magnet wire - very thin almost plastic like coating.

Al varnish is made to protect Aluminum and prevent oxidation. I suspect it causes oxidation to form initially - as part of that process.

Are there small Al particles or Aluminium powder mixed into the varnish or why is it called this way ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 05:03:42 AM
The label is old but it is clear it has no form of Aluminum in it.

-------------------

I just realized something folks. Look carefully at the photo above that EM posted. Look at the coil connections!. It is not wired dual parallel. It is wired in quadrature feedback mode. All four coils are wired as a ring not as deduced on the build page!

I know the patent shows it the other way but how many times have you run into a patent that was 100% correct. Intentional flaws are common.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 05:04:17 AM
Here is my coil, if you're curious.

Hi EM,
nice setup,
so you are only getting 60 Hz induction from the grid or what ?

Do you also have iron rods ?
Did you try to premagnetize the Rods into the BH regime, where they
begin to toggle their domains for the Barkhausen noise ?
( For this you must probably bring some magnets in a destinct distance to the rods
and leave them there....)
It also depends much probably, what kind of iron rod one is
using to get a maximum Barkhausen noise level out of the rods.


@All,
I think I will leave this topic in the Special coil-magnet setups
category,cause I really don?t see any simularities with the TPU over here.

In the TPU you have collector coils at 90 degrees, over here not at all.

If the Brnbrade  thing really works, it is my guess it is much more related to
an selflooped and amplified Barkhausen energy extractor.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 05:08:41 AM
The label is old but it is clear it has no form of Aluminum in it.

Then why is it called AL Varnish ?

Is it just a standard nonconductive varnish ??


Quote

I just realized something folks. Look carefully at the photo above that EM posted. Look at the coil connections!. It is not wired dual parallel. It is wired in quadrature feedback mode. All four coils are wired as a ring not as deduced on the build page!


Exactly, I wonder myself, what would be the right setup ?
This way as EM did it or turn one rod 180 around and have it then in parallel with the same
wire turn directions ?

What will amplify a looped pulse better  ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 05:09:11 AM
I tried lots of magnet setups Stefan.  I'm getting 60 Hz from the grid.  I suspect brnbrade is getting the same.  Too bad he does not have a scope.  
There might be some merit to this setup, but it's definitely not related to the TPU  :)    So good call Stefan, just leave it here.   I'm sure TPU related stuff is all over the forums anyway, we'll just have to hunt and gather relevant info.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 05:13:58 AM
EM,
did you shortout the 2 AL layers in each of your rods or if not,
could you please measure, if there is building up a voltage between each AL layer on one rod  ?
And then between the Al layers across the 2 rods ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 05:16:16 AM
flipping one rod won't duplicate what he has. Connecting all four coils in series with the small windings each reversed will. It appears he has been reading Tesla patents, as well.

My point on the varnish is that it will create a doped junction.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 05:18:45 AM
I dont have my software here but imagine a ring of four coils connected in quad. Two opposing coils are reversed. AND there is a diode going from the end of a small coil to the beginning of the large winding on the next coil - ALSO creating a ring.

IN ADDITION there is the aluminum reversing induction between each set of coils. Help me out here. Could that cause rotation?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 05:21:28 AM
No voltage between the Al layers.

Also,  the brnbrade's photo is wired like the patent,  just trace the wires.  Two separate circuits formed by connecting Secondary_1 to Primary_2  (both leads),   then circuit 2 formed by connecting Secondary_2 to Primary_1,  where the 2 or 1 refer to the transformer.    

There are some unknowns however,   for those that know about electronics you know you have to place a dot over each coil to show the induction polarity.   There are about 4 different ways one can hook up these coils, other options are redundant.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 04, 2007, 05:23:25 AM
BEP:

Great deduction! I think you're right about the 4 coils wired like in a TPU circular fashion.
Brnbrade himself actually echoed that statement in reply 13, see

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg37634.html#msg37634

So, we do have a regular TPU structure after all. Brnbrade, care to comment?

chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 05:28:17 AM
chrisC,   take a closer look and  trace the wires and you'll see.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 05:29:00 AM
Hi Em,
yes, your big white coated wire
is on one rod right turned wired and on the other
rod left turned wired.

So is this correct ?
Does this give better amplification
of an induced pulse ?

Better check out each "rod transformer"
for itself first and see, how a pulse in the primary is induced
back into the secondary and then see, if you hook up
the 2 transformers and feed in a pulse, if it will cancel
or amplify a bit at least...
We are looking for amplification here.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 05:28:32 AM
@MeggerMan

It's as if your were making them since you were a kid. Really nice job. The only question I have is how tight do your layers fit together, or, is there any air gap in your design?

@all

Here's another build;

Core - baling wire x 16 wires per core
Primary - Standard Electrical House Wire - Single strand - 14 awg - 40 turns
Secondary - 23 awg - Alot - around 90 feet each
Build per specs.

Build sequence:
Bailing wire core - a bugger to straighten out.
Electrical Tape
Three layers aluminium foil
Electrical Tape
Secondary winding
Electrical Tape
Three layers aluminium foil
Electrical Tape
Primary winding
Electrical Tape
Et voila!

But didn't see voltage rise using 3vdc plus with an assortment of caps. A few of the caps discharged rather slowly, so I will keep on poking around but I am sure Brbrade will be able to help out soon.

I will also try with sound since I have been doing audio frequency tests for my ECD.

I'd like to know what that cap is. The brown square one in Trial #1 and #2. Can any of you give me any details, description, etc.

Erfinder calculation;
185,000 mps x 5280 fpm / 180 ft = 5,426,666.66666666Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!. lol

It has to do with the resonance between the coils.

I will try Trail #4 as at least I can see the cap values.

No-one jump to any hasty conclusions. How long have people been working on the TPU? Fine. Well this just started so please don't panic. Besides. If Brnbrade studied Erfinder, why would he pull a fast one? Come-on guys. Think.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 05:31:07 AM
Sorry, my eyes are old but I checked it more than once and also drew it out as I went. I won't change my statement.
Don't forget the reversing field action of the Aluminum. I'm sure folks here know how that works.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 05:36:17 AM
Maybe Brnbrade  made himself a few errors,
like different winding turning direections or ripped off varnish,
so the copper wire touched his alufoil and made contact,so it is
a different circuit or special iron rods, that have a high Barkhausen
noise output in a different BH regime than your rods, EMDevices,
so there are many parameters not yet known...

Hmm, why does Brnbrade not reply anymore ?
I hope he can post a few more answers.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 05:45:48 AM
BEP,  just for you  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 05:47:43 AM
Maybe not errors. Either he studies electronic history or his accidents may be a plus.
Early detectors (around the time of cat whiskers on the edge of a razor blade) had nasty diode avalanche noise when you didn't have it right. Barkhausen may not be the only flipping going on here!

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 05:51:35 AM
I'm using multiple small rods like wattsup

I cut them from a long bailing (iron) wire


I'll think about Barkhausen, and experiment some more.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 06:09:51 AM
Thanks EM.
As usual I saw what I wanted to see But I still don't think you are seeing what I am. Yes, you are correct on the physical wiring but I will be testing what I believe to be the actual functional of the way it is wired and constucted.

i.e. The Aluminum reverses the induction field and if I remember right it isn't completely reversed. It shifts the induction by 90 degrees. As wild as it seems!

Large emergency generators use the same principal in the exciter windings for the field driving windings. They take the single DC drive current to create 4 distinct poles for the exciter.

I'll let you all know how it played out. If nothing else, you'll have a good laugh  :)

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 06:11:30 AM
IMPORTANT:

Hello All,  I have been reading and catching up.

I see that everyone has built there own version of the brnbrade coils, but NO ONE has followed the step by step directions that I have posted on page 1, post 1.

Brnbrade had told me in an PM that he was using Aluminum Varnish as his insulator.  Not tape, or anything else.  I ALSO listed the EXACT steps to take to build this.

Also there is ONE solid piece of iron in the center.  NOT many pieces.  So, with the absolute most respect to fellow builders and experimenters, I humbly request, that you build HIS coil first!  ;)  Get it working and then play! 

PLEASE build again, this time EXACT directions.  I have been in ECD Land tonight and smoked a driver.  Will post a picture tomorrow.  And tomorrow I start on my brnbrade coil.

Happy Holidays!  (To my fellow Americans!)
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 04, 2007, 06:16:18 AM
Hmmm, I'll have to go buy some solid iron rods and do it correctly this time.

BEP, interesting theory about the 90 degree phasing.   Yes, I can belive that.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 04, 2007, 06:20:10 AM
EM & BEP:

Yes, you are correct about the wiring. I mistakenly followed a wire shadow and was confused. So the coils are wired as in the patent.

My other question concerns the structure of the 4 coils the way they are connected. Imagine if we bend these rods/tubes into a half circle and connect them two haves back to back, facing each other. Now doesn't that becomes a toroid with double mobius? What are the implications?

chrisC

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: joe dirt on July 04, 2007, 06:39:14 AM
Hmmm, I'll have to go buy some solid iron rods and do it correctly this time.

BEP, interesting theory about the 90 degree phasing.   Yes, I can belive that.

EM

Great work :)  I think I,ll join in.   

E.M. you might look around for rebar, it,s what I,m going to use...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 04, 2007, 06:48:01 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: xilusma on July 04, 2007, 07:02:22 AM
@Brnbrade,

 ;) Any more new picture that you could shared with us?

Regards,
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 07:06:31 AM
Message from Brnbrade,
Doug56 can you please translate this ?
Thanks.

Ol? Stefan.

Estou lendo as mensagens dos colegas.
Muitos me atacando, como se meu dispositivo fosse o que iria salvar todos. ? apenas testes.
Eu sei que ele n?o ? auto sustentado nem algo melhor que campos magneticos girando ECD. Mais pude observar que coisas estranhas acontecem nele e alguns est?o percebendo isso. E minhas fotos n?o s?o trapassas.
N?o viria em um forum me passar por idiota a ponto de ser o salvador do mundo.

?nica mensagem agradav?l ? de EMDevice conseguiu ler 60hz de saida de onda senoidal. Isso se n?o for ironia dele.

O que eu posso dizer. gostaria que voce estivese aqui e visse pelo seus proprios olhos o que minhas bobinas est?o fazendo.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 07:30:32 AM
@Brnbrade

Thank you for that. I was reading that about 4 times today before doing my build.

Question: Can you provide the capacitor values in your photos. I have other questions but they can wait until I do more experimenting.

@All builders

In order that we know what to talk about on the device I am enclosing another photo of my unit with coils as 1 and 2, and connections as A, B, C and D.  We can use AP as the primary of A or AS as the secondary of A.

My unit is AS to CP, BS to DP, CS to AP and DS to BP.

While applyng DC+ to B and DC- to D I always use a compass to see any magnetic  effects and none were seen. Even pulsing the DC did nothing so I guess the aluminium is holding the field inside the coil.

But try this. Leave DC+ on B and put DC- on A. Pulse it. WOW!

You should be able to see the compass rotate if you put your compass in the middle between both coils 1 and 2. Can anyone with a unit try this?

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 04, 2007, 07:33:33 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 04, 2007, 07:41:29 AM
BrnBrade,

  Perdoar por favor tudo. Estas coisas cr?am sempre a d?vida. A maioria acreditam que voc? ? bom e honesto. Eu n?o tenho nenhuma d?vida sobre voc?. Por favor estada com n?s.

BEP

----------

BrnBrade,    Please forgive all. These things always create doubt. Most believe you are good and honest. I have no doubts about you. Please stay with us.   

BEP
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 07:40:37 AM
Stefan,
This isn't too bad a translation.

I am reading the messages of the colleagues. Many attacking me, as if my device was what it would go to save all. It is only tests. I know that it auto is not supported nor something better that magneticos fields turning ECD. More I could observe that strange things happen in it and some are perceiving this. And my photos are not trapassas (tricks?). I would not come in a forum to pass me for idiot the point of being the rescuer of the world. Only message agradav?l (friendly or agreeable)) is of EMDevice obtained to read 60hz of said of sine wave. This if will not be irony of it. What I can say I would like that voce (you) estivese and saw here for its proprios (own) eyes what my bobbins (coils) are making.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 07:49:21 AM
@Brnbrade

I understand you perfectly. I am sure others do also. We have a tendency on this board to jump quickly to conclusions. But I think our intent is sincere and our effort is genuine.

Answer to your question. Yes I was geeting AC in the millivolt range.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 07:53:09 AM
Well folks, that pretty well settles it for me.

By his own admission, he is only doing "tests", seeing "strange" things, and not here to "save the world".

He doesn't sound like someone that has overunity in their grasp.

EM has seen strange things also, but that doesn't mean there is excess power  being produced anywhere. Also, how much electrical or electronics experience does this young man have? Some things that seem strange to an inexperienced person, may be "old hat" to others.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 08:04:54 AM
Well folks, that pretty well settles it for me.

By his own admission, he is only doing "tests", seeing "strange" things, and not here to "save the world".

He doesn't sound like someone that has overunity in their grasp.

EM has seen strange things also, but that doesn't mean there is excess power  being produced anywhere. Also, how much electrical or electronics experience does this young man have? Some things that seem strange to an inexperienced person, may be "old hat" to others.

Darren

Well good Darren,

Since you are so sure, you can exit my thread and haunt some other with your badgering and constant bombardment of ________ .  The readers can add the word of their choice.  I for one am sick of it.  It is obvious that you have no interest in this project, so please, do brnbrade a favor and exit, sali, adios, vamanose. 

You are beginning to make me have flashbacks of Kokomojo.  We are here for overunity, but also as a past time.  Enjoyment.  Hobby.  So, go simulate something.  I am sorry but enough is enough.   Please.  I am trying to be kind.  Please leave us in peace.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 08:16:34 AM
  I am trying to be kind.  Please leave us in peace.

Thank you.

Actually, I was being kind.

You....just don't want to face or can't handle the simple truth, believe everything without question, and have no idea what objectivity is.

I don't recall brnbade ever saying he had "overunity" at hand, however he has you to thank for introducing his work as such... and the frenzy that has ensued.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 08:27:44 AM
  I am trying to be kind.  Please leave us in peace.

Thank you.

Actually, I was being kind.

You....just don't want to face or can't handle the simple truth, believe everything without question, and have no idea what objectivity is.

I don't recall brnbade ever saying he had "overunity" at hand, however he has you to thank for introducing his work as such... and the frenzy that has ensued.

Okay, Darren.

The truth is you do not listen.  You are book smart I am sure.  If you would read the PM, the first one I posted, than you would know that your above statement is untrue.

He PM'd me stating that his search for OU was over.  He solicited MY help.  Not the other way around.  ALSO, let me say, That being "OPEN MINDED"  does NOT mean believing "anything". 

I will say this for the third time since being on this forum, so please listen.  "I am neither quick to believe, but neither am I quick to dismiss!"

That brings me to this point...We (those on this thread) want to replicate this coil.  If we do so, and PROPERLY and nothing happens, then this thread will dry up and off we go.  SO, until we have replicated, or given a full effort, I will not dismiss.  "Trust but Verify" is our slogan!  LOL  (Ronald Reagan's actually.)  So build with us, or find a new thread please.

Happy 4th of July!
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: supersam on July 04, 2007, 08:30:50 AM
darren,
just leave it alone.  have you checked out the sims in the milkovic thread? i think you can actually make it work in wm2d.

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 04, 2007, 08:33:01 AM
Hi Darren:

I'm kinda of disappointed that you seemed rather ungracious to this young lad for disclosing his findings. He was excited and wanted to show us what anomalies he found, albeit 'slow' in coming forth with a circuit diagram.

He never claimed he made a stand-alone TPU and he was clear he's continuing his experimentation. There is no need to do this, surely? After all, knowledge is relative. Can you claim to understand everything that SM disclosed? Is this not part of experiments?

Chill out. Get some sleep and hopefully help us out some more! Thanks.

Cheers

chrisC

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 08:38:33 AM
Hey you guys, quit shouting! I'm trying to sleep...z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z
Title: Great Moments in Science
Post by: Earl on July 04, 2007, 11:06:25 AM
Hi Daren, hi All,

I allow myself a few comments, that speak for themselves.

On January 7, 1610, one year after he had made his first telescope, examining the planet Jupiter through his instrument he saw three little stars near it. He noted them down, taking their exact positions. The next night he looked again, and Jupiter was on the other side of the three little stars. If the sky with the stars set in their places was moving around the earth, as the old astronomers argued, this was not impossible, except for the astonishing fact that according to the plan the three little stars were on the wrong side of Jupiter. That Galileo could not understand. He waited in a fever of impatience for the next night, but it was cloudy. On January 10 he could see again, and this time there were only two stars and they were on the other side. On the 11th there were two again; on the 12th, three as at first; and on the 13th, four. After that no more appeared.

What Galileo had seen was the four moons of Jupiter, moving around it, as our moon moves around the earth. This he at once realized. It was a wonderful sight to him, for he had been saying for some time that our moon moved about the earth. But people would not believe it, for they were strong for the old theory. Now he could say, "Come, and I will show you with my telescope how another one of the planets, Jupiter, has four moons which swing around it as our moon swings around our earth." He did say so.

News of the discovery spread far and wide. But how hard it was for people to believe it! Some said that Galileo had bewitched the telescope. Others refused to look through it. One man said that if he saw the moons of Jupiter himself, he would not believe in them, as their existence was contrary to the principles of common sense!


Of course, in modern history things have changed.  In 1903 in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, two brothers flew a short distance in a litlle test.  This in spite of all the learned professors with all their filled blackboards proving very scientifically that heavier-than-air flight was totally impossible.  Because humans were much more enlightened in 1903 than in the middle ages, the local newspaper refused to send any reporter to the test and never sent any reporter in the next ten years either.  Five years passed.  Hardly any Americans believed.  Ten years passed, still hardly any Americans believed.  The Wright brothers in desperation went to England and France where people watched and listened and believed.

Well, I am sure that in 2007 people are more enlightened than in the middle ages.  We all know that the learned people teach us stars are thermonuclear reactions.  The only problem is that astronomers have seen one star go through its entire thermonuclear life of billions of years in only FIVE months.  UUuuuppppsssss.  Better sweep that one under the rug.

Not only did scientists refuse to look into Galileo's telescope, many refused to look at Roetgen's X-ray tube.  Is is not wonderful how times have changed in 2007?

It can very well be that Brnbrade has made mistakes, bad connections, or whatever.  However, as a true scientist he has told us what he did as well as his observations.  Now we have to either ignore him or to follow the scientific method.  That means peer review.  In other words, some of us will invest time and efforts to reproduce.  Whether the results are positive, or negative, as in the case of Bearden's MEG, is of little importance.  What is important is to follow the scientific method no matter how incredulous or preposterous his results appear to be.  To do otherwise would be to repeat the doubters of Galileo and Roetgen showing their primitive, self-made devices.
And last, but not least an ancedote:
The famous theoretical physicist, Nobel prize winner Lev Landau, was known for his sharp tongue and condescending attitude to people who were below his intellectual level. Many physicists strived for presenting their work at Landau's seminar. If Landau, to whom his numerous pupils usually referred as Dau, liked the work, he would allow the applicant to give a talk at his seminar. Otherwise he would destroy the hapless applicant's hopes with a derisive comment.

There was in the USSR a physicist by the name of Pines. He was an expert in X-rays applications. Once Professor Pines submitted a paper to Landau in which he offered a proof that certain bodies, if stretched, would, contrary to expectations, also expand (rather than shrink) sideways. Even though such a phenomenon was never observed, it would not contradict any known laws of Physics. When Landau took a look at the topic of Pines' paper, he, without bothering to read Pines' arguments thoroughly. dismissed them out of hand and wrote on the Pines' manuscript. "Pines, if you swap e and i in your name, that will be the only physical body that expands sideways when stretched." (The famous theoretician was wrong, as several years later bodies that expand sideways when stretched were discovered experimentally).

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 04, 2007, 11:43:48 AM
clap clap clap....yawn.

First, scientific method requires rigorous documentation. A few simple questions need to be answered. Data, not just this is what I did and this is what happened, is required.

If you don't have the instrumentation, refer to the first part, rigorous documentation, so others can build accurately and replicate.

This is so that when others don't get the same results, the claimant cannot come back and say, oh, you did this, wrong, or you did that wrong.... that's why it does not work....ad infinitum.

I neither disbelieve, nor believe, I have asked simple questions and been labeled an attacker, when I have defended him in other threads.

You will note, the same thing happened to otto, before ronotte got sick of it all and drove to his house to work with him and document.

The same thing happened to macedonia cd. Finally we ignored him because he did not document.

So, you speak of scientific method as if you actually think it applies here. Well, then if you believe in scientific method, join us in asking for our questions answered by the claimant, not by you. Not assumptions, or photo analyses. Statements of fact. We need a schematic from brnbrade, or a confirmation that what you wrote down is exactly correct.

We must first have a common platform to test, same dimensions same materials, same wire gauges, same input, same output. Ideally, same measuring equipment, but that is unlikely.

And we need to document it like roberto did the ecd. What change causes what results change. If you want scientific method, than that is why I was applauding at the beginning of this post. Inspiration comes later. We do not need blind belief or faith, we need data. I was yawing because I'm tired of the blind fan boy bullshit. I will not replicate until there is enough info to do so. I don't want to end up one of those guys who gets burned out by trying things over and over without enough info to start in the first place, and then prematurely regarding all my experiments as failures. Self defeating behavior is a form of insanity.

The instructions we have thus far are insufficient. Nobody is attacking anyone, just asking for the whole story. Simple questions are easy to answer. But so far they have been sidestepped by the only person who should be comping at the bit to answer them.

If I stumbled on a secret of the universe, I would fully document BEFORE I POSTED. I would be prepared for the questions and I would answer them as fast as I could. I thought anyone would do the same thing.

People are not eating him alive(as predicted) because they want to disprove it. They are doing it because they want it to be true. They want the data shown to be plain and inscrutable.

I have to tell you, that I take exception to people who ask the questions I am asking, however, are not willing to replicate. I am. I just will not waste the money or the time, or the emotional energy on something that, as I see it now, is doomed to fail.

By the way... stars work on fusion, not fission(thermonuclear), and fusion can be a quick process in a low density star, say, 100 jupiters or so. They go red quickly. Nothing new there. It has never been thought that stars worked via fission.

@EM, look closer, there is a black wire down there connecting via some kind of black terminal block to the red wire. Those coils are powered. The wire is NOT disconnected.


Our desire for world saving technology must not allow us to believe in fairy tales. First we must have the fairies in a cage. If I'm behaving like Dau, then so be it. I'd be ecstatic to be wrong. I'm sure he would too.

Regards,
Rich.

See, I can make long posts too.
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 04, 2007, 12:28:32 PM
Rich,

I would much prefer rigorous ISO-9000 level documentation.  But no hobbyist is capable of doing this.  Roberto does good doc since he is a professional Engineer.

Question:  why would Cook go to the trouble in 1871 to patent such a device?
Was he suffering from hallucinations?  Had too much money to burn?

There are now two independent people claiming this apparatus does something unusual.
For some people just Cook is enough to attempt a replication.  For others, Cook and Brnbrade are enough.  Others will only start replicating when Cook, Brnbrade, and X confirm.  Still others will wait longer.
Your decision not to replicate at this stage, or at any time, is perfectly OK.

If I stumbled on a secret of the universe, I would fully document BEFORE I POSTED. I would be prepared for the questions and I would answer them as fast as I could. I thought anyone would do the same thing.

That is what you say in a calm state, but I guarantee that as a human being, should you stumble upon FE you will immediately start shouting to the entire world:  I did it !  Only later when you recover from the shock will you think about doc.  Your very first reaction will be to tell everyone, unless you are an android.  You will not stay calm and cool.

Regards, Earl
Title: Fission / Fussion
Post by: Earl on July 04, 2007, 12:53:03 PM
Rich,

Quote
By the way... stars work on fusion, not fission(thermonuclear), and fusion can be a quick process in a low density star, say, 100 jupiters or so. They go red quickly. Nothing new there. It has never been thought that stars worked via fission.[

I never said stars work on fission.  The word thermonuclear refers to fussion, not fission.
Wiki agrees with me on this.
The 10 billion Euro ITER fussion reactor in France is called
International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor.

I think you got your terms mixed up.

No fussion powered star can go through a life cycle in only five months.  Totally impossible.

Whether stars work on hot fusion, cold fusion, or an electric plasma phenomenon is as of July 2007 an open question.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 04, 2007, 01:17:59 PM
Hi ALL,

I've carefully read the Farland text and despite some of the text and diagram being missing I am sure of the following as per the Farland arrangement:

1. There is only one metal bar.
2. The coils are placed on this one metal bar.
3. The sense of the turnings on the coil and therefore the placement of N-S is crucial. This point is stressed in the patent.

The first image shows the arrangement as per the Farland TEXT.

The second image shows that to get from the Farland arrangment with one iron bar to the brnbrade arrangement with two iron bars, you need to rotate the coil set B 180 degress, which obviously changes the N-S position - so be doubly sure your coils don't need rotating 180 degrees and reconnected accordingly.

This arrangement makes sense on a number of levels as the magnetic field now becomes additive and the currents all flow in one direciton creating a magnetic field and a current that flows round in a circle. Note at the same time the capacitative elements surmised as the missing text and diagram by Brnbrade still apply.

Hope this helps - I'll be trying this out at the weekend.

Cheers Bob.
Title: Patience
Post by: Earl on July 04, 2007, 01:28:13 PM
Hi Rich,

Quote
You will note, the same thing happened to otto, before ronotte got sick of it all and drove to his house to work with him and document.

The same thing happened to macedonia cd. Finally we ignored him because he did not document.

Well one of us, Bob.R, had the patience and perserverence to communicate with Macedonia and Bob now uses fast diodes on both sides of his perturb coil.  By Bob acting as a rosetta stone, we are are now richer in knowledge.  Bob did not get frustrated by difficult telecommnications.

Sure, it would have been better if Brnbrade had uploaded a 3-D CAD drawing that we could rotate in all directions, look at cross sections, parts list, and even center of gravities.  But he did not.  We have to live with that.  Sometimes life is not served on a golden plate.  Yes, I am well aware of the frustration factors.  Some people have the philosophy that:
there are no problems in life, only solutions.

Everyone makes their decisions based on sensory inputs.  People go in different directions, have different pet theories, have great interest in some projects and zero interest in others.  This is fantastic.  We have a fantastic forum, great people, and we appear to be gaining in knowledge and making progress.  Let us keep the happy, happy days!

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Mannix on July 04, 2007, 01:47:41 PM
@Jacob,
will move this thread again to the TPU thread, when I am again at my PC tommorow. Am now only on my PDA.

Just a small amount of respect for Steven would be  to leave it here or create a "cook coil replication". That is what it is..

The tpu works..differenty.

I really wish you guys well with this cook coil ,I needs some research thats for sure and if it were at least round perhaps there would be some similararties.

THIS IS NOT A TPU!

Other than an old  speaker magnet in the picture..I do not see it.

Am I losing my basic common sense and courtesy here?





Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 04, 2007, 02:35:13 PM
@Jacob,
will move this thread again to the TPU thread, when I am again at my PC tommorow. Am now only on my PDA.

Just a small amount of respect for Steven would be  to leave it here or create a "cook coil replication". That is what it is..

The tpu works..differenty.

I really wish you guys well with this cook coil ,I needs some research thats for sure and if it were at least round perhaps there would be some similararties.

THIS IS NOT A TPU!

Other than an old  speaker magnet in the picture..I do not see it.

Am I losing my basic common sense and courtesy here?


DON'T ASK - JUST DO!!

There are plenty of pointers to indicate that manipulation of electric fields IS PART of what SM is doing.
The brnbrade stuff is effectively dealing with oscillating capacitance. SM has spoken about "cancelling the effects of the magnetic field". He has clearly described electric field problems with solid state circuitry and said to raise components away from the circuit board. The Erfinder stuff is ALL about electric fields and Otto found plenty of inspiration from those notes.

Title: Re: Patience
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 02:38:27 PM
Hi Rich,

Sure, it would have been better if Brnbrade had uploaded a 3-D CAD drawing that we could rotate in all directions, look at cross sections, parts list, and even center of gravities.  But he did not.  We have to live with that.  Sometimes life is not served on a golden plate.  Yes, I am well aware of the frustration factors.  Some people have the philosophy that:
there are no problems in life, only solutions.

Everyone makes their decisions based on sensory inputs.  People go in different directions, have different pet theories, have great interest in some projects and zero interest in others.  This is fantastic.  We have a fantastic forum, great people, and we appear to be gaining in knowledge and making progress.  Let us keep the happy, happy days!

Regards, Earl

Earl, that is precisely the point that is being missed or being missconstrued, as you have done above.

No one, especially myself, was ever asking for a fancy 3D Cad drawing or anything of that sort. Just a simple, basic, clear, hand drawn diagram of his setup. Is that really too much to ask? I mean really? This is really the first step in disclosing anything, ou or not. Why is that so difficult in forthcoming? This thread and the replication effort would be so much farther ahead had brnbade done only that.

So, I've tried to make these points, yes repeatedly, but no one seems to be listening. I've tried to bring some objectivity to this effort and thread, apparently to no avail. I've tried to make known the reality of the situation, but no one wants to hear it. I have never tried to discourage brnbade or anyone for that matter, only to bring some sense of structure and scientific method to the table. Always my intentions are good, even though many do not see that now.

So take heed of what Rich has said. He is right on all counts.

Alas, I have already stated that I am essentially done here. I have 2 more documents I want to contribute here for the good of all, then once they're submitted, I'll be gone...for a while anyway.

Regards,
Darren

PS. As Lindsay said, this device belongs in its own Cook Coil thread. It's not a TPU.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 02:48:09 PM
@ Bob.rennips

Thanks for the excellent post with the diagrams!!!

Good work.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 04, 2007, 03:06:38 PM
@Stefan

Sorry. I'm online only now.

Quote
Message from Brnbrade,
Doug56 can you please translate this ?
Thanks.

Ol? Stefan.

Estou lendo as mensagens dos colegas.
Muitos me atacando, como se meu dispositivo fosse o que iria salvar todos. ? apenas testes.
Eu sei que ele n?o ? auto sustentado nem algo melhor que campos magneticos girando ECD. Mais pude observar que coisas estranhas acontecem nele e alguns est?o percebendo isso. E minhas fotos n?o s?o trapassas.
N?o viria em um forum me passar por idiota a ponto de ser o salvador do mundo.

?nica mensagem agradav?l ? de EMDevice conseguiu ler 60hz de saida de onda senoidal. Isso se n?o for ironia dele.

O que eu posso dizer. gostaria que voce estivese aqui e visse pelo seus proprios olhos o que minhas bobinas est?o fazendo.

@All

The Brnbrade translation:

I'm reading the messages from my friends.
Many of them are attacking me, as if my device would save all you. This is only tests. I know that my device isn't self supported, nor something better that magnetic fields turning around (ECD). But I can see strange things happen here, and some of you also are seeing too. And my pictures aren't frauds.

I wouldn't come to a forum like a idiot at point to call myself as world's rescuer.

The only well-pleasing is from EMDevice that read 60 HZ in output sine wave. This if will not be irony from him.

What to say? I would like that you see by itself what my coil are doing.


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 03:23:26 PM
Besides all this noise, noise , nosie.

@Brnbrade

Is there a possible chance that you can supply the capacitor values in your photos. Is this too much to ask? I have replicated the device to the letter with variables permissible in the patent. The only thing different to your is the electrical tape instead of the varnish. Have you ever tested any other build without varmish. So this is another way to test and I am not prepared to say it does not work. I just need to replicate the cap values as you have done so I can test as per your tests. So please oblige.

@Builders

Did you guys see my post (Page 27 - Reply 268) with photo showing the terminal names so we can talk the same language. Did any of you try the small test? There is definitely something here and will require further testing.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Pegasus on July 04, 2007, 03:39:30 PM
Anyone here has noticed this?:
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm

Its the perpetual motion holder of Ed Leedskalin.The device shows to work and has been replicated by other people,and it shows the same effects of the coil of the brazilian friend:something is circulating in it,tested by instrumentation.The unique difference here is that the charge in the coils is not regenerating,and the magnetic field is close-looped.Personally I will start to build this adding the secondary coils and the rigth connections like the ones of Barnbrade and see what is going on adding a kick with a magnet.....

Regards,
Pegasus
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 04, 2007, 03:38:56 PM
@All

I don't know if the page bellow already posted in this forum, but a guy tried make a Daniel McFarland Cook patent replica, but its don't work:

Here: http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm (http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm)

And here: http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookUpDate.htm (http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookUpDate.htm)

And pictures here: http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoilPics.htm (http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoilPics.htm)

More pictures:http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoilPics2.htm (http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoilPics2.htm)

Please, note that the author did not use aluminum (alufoil) layers between the coils. It seems that Brnbrade was the only one whose device worked.

Regards

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 04, 2007, 03:41:31 PM

@Builders

Did you guys see my post (Page 27 - Reply 268) with photo showing the terminal names so we can talk the same language. Did any of you try the small test? There is definitely something here and will require further testing.

Your coil 1 needs rotating 180 degrees and the connections remade accordingly.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: starcruiser on July 04, 2007, 04:09:39 PM
:)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2007, 04:24:24 PM
Hi ALL,

I've carefully read the Farland text and despite some of the text and diagram being missing I am sure of the following as per the Farland arrangement:

1. There is only one metal bar.
2. The coils are placed on this one metal bar.
3. The sense of the turnings on the coil and therefore the placement of N-S is crucial. This point is stressed in the patent.

The first image shows the arrangement as per the Farland TEXT.

The second image shows that to get from the Farland arrangment with one iron bar to the brnbrade arrangement with two iron bars, you need to rotate the coil set B 180 degress, which obviously changes the N-S position - so be doubly sure your coils don't need rotating 180 degrees and reconnected accordingly.

This arrangement makes sense on a number of levels as the magnetic field now becomes additive and the currents all flow in one direciton creating a magnetic field and a current that flows round in a circle. Note at the same time the capacitative elements surmised as the missing text and diagram by Brnbrade still apply.

Hope this helps - I'll be trying this out at the weekend.

Cheers Bob.

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10315)
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2630.0;attach=10316)

Hi Bob,
many thanks for the indeepth reading and seeing these results, that Cook
only used ONE iron rod.

This way, it really makes more sense and is also much more logical.
Maybe Brnbrade had the coupling via his magnets at the left side ?

Hi Brnbrade,
can you please document your device some more ?
Also can you rebuild 2 more devices and see, if they will
also work ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 04, 2007, 04:49:19 PM
Quote
Maybe Brnbrade had the coupling via his magnets at the left side ?

I would agree one of the pictures has what looks like a small 1inch magnet to the left of the coils.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: weri812 on July 04, 2007, 05:26:13 PM
here is a pdf
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 05:59:53 PM
Besides all this noise, noise , nosie.


You're absolutely right wattsup. The noise doesn't belong here...apologies.

I'll be posting something important in the TPU's "A Place for Debate" thread.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 06:18:52 PM
Good morning, All!

I have place Bob.R's diagram on page 1, post 1.
Excellent Work Bob!

All builders:
Please use aluminum varnish only.  Let's find it online and post a source.  I will add the source to page 1.  Or multi.  1 in US one in EU. 

So if you do not use the varnish.  And if you do not wrap on aluminum tube.  Then my guess is it will not work.  The Iron (rebar was a good idea) goes into the alum tubing.  It can probably be adjusted to "tune" as well.  At least an avenue of experimentation.

For more info why the alum varnish is so important, please read BEP from yesterday.

Also it is what our young friend wrote to me he was using.  Just because it is not readily available does not mean we should not use it.  So I suggest slowing down, getting all of our parts.  Matching wire sizes and then replicating.

Happy 4th of July!!
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2007, 07:49:52 PM
@bob.rennips

Thanks for your info, but geez, if you look at Brnbrade's unit, mine is exactly the same, same winding directions and same connection points. Also on Farlands patent, his Figure 2 is identical to mine. But, I will try the other way when I get home as with other configurations, since Brnbrade has not indicated the cap values, etc. I'd like to know what type of capacitor he is using in Trail #1 and #2, please.

As for the core, in the patent Farland states " The iron core A may be solid bar or a bundle of iron wire, the latter giving higher tension to the current with equal length and fineness of wire.

Also, would you agree that when Farland refers to the Primary, he means our secondary and vise versa.

Lastly, for start-up Farland refers to the possibility of using a magnet, an electro magnet or by winding a second Primary on the coils. This sounds like a good idea and can be done easilly. I think this is what Brnbrade has highlighted in his reply #265 on page 27.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Pegasus on July 04, 2007, 08:31:30 PM
Read this page about the use of aluminium:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/revlenz.htm

Regards,
Pegasus
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 04, 2007, 09:29:04 PM

THIS IS NOT A TPU!

Other than an old  speaker magnet in the picture..I do not see it.

Am I losing my basic common sense and courtesy here?


Yes, you are. If Otto's design is TPU related, then this is as well, it shares many design aspects. Go ask otto if he got any inspiration from this, or if erfinder's talk of mobius this, and mobius that, was at all inspired by the mcfarland stuff.

The differences you note, result in a different output, for sure. If this device works, we can draw from it, to further our platform.

By the way. Marco was doing what otto did a year ago, results wise. In fact it was a bit more impressive in my opionin, but he didn't think so. I encouraged him to persue it but nothing came of it. This was all BEFORE the wireless transmitter stuff, but nobody mentioned anything about it. Why now. I agree it needs to be studied more. But promising results need to be studied. All of them. I don't know what my point is here.

On the one hand, I see the immense amount of value in otto's work, but not being overunity, and displaying so many wierd results not mentioned by SM, along with the ones mentioned by him... It's not the full picture. So something is missing from it. Perhaps aspects of what brnbrade is doing are applicable. Or what Marco did a year ago. He got massive amounts of voltage and current out, compared to in, which did NOT diminish when attaching a load. He thought it was measurement error, did not disclose, and dismissed it. Not having seen everything, I had to assume he was right. I had no choice, based on the data I had at the time to dismiss it as well. I still think about it. Marco then went on to do the dancing magnets, and the MT replication (wireless power).

Also, nobody seems interested in verifying Otto's claims of inertia, or wieght loss.

People have tried measuring a rotating field in Otto's device, but have been unable to.

This is highly distressing to me. I built anyway, as I have enough data to build his. Unfortunately, that is not the case here, yet. I want to test for all possible expressions of SM type reactions. I will tune as per Ottos doc, but frankly, I care not a whit about seeds and sines forming. I care about mitigating RF radiation, so that I can handle it, like SM does. I care about replicating the form of the device that is seen in the videos. Not the 2/3 ratio of ring diameter, or whatever, or bottom ring 2" reduced from the top.

In other words I want to help mold the ECD into a TPU. Not get stuck on the ECD. Which in and of itself is obviously NOT a TPU. But first I have to test the ECD, to insure it operates like Ottos.

Neither is Brnbrades setup a TPU, but perhaps parts of it can be used.

The similarities, are what's intriguing Mannix, not the differences. If you want to focus on differences, note the differences between SM's setup, and Ottos. If we are discounting things based on differences, rather than similarity, then we have some crow to eat here. I hope you realize Lindsay, that I'm not trying to caustic, but keeping the possibilities open. And to stop the assumption that, this over here, is related, and this over here, is not. Not even you can say that. No disrespect intended.

@stefan, I really don't think it matters where this thread is. If Mannix thinks its disrespectful, then fine, Keep it here. But keep in mind, that it only matters that SM thinks it is disrespectful. What I think is disrespectful, is assuming that someone's experimentation is any less important than someonen else's, and any less relevent. Also, what I think is disprespectful to SM, is assuming something is not TPU related and therefor making it open game to anyone who wants to claim it. The cook patents are public domain after all. So move it or don't move it, either way its disrepsectful to SM.
I suspect you'll do what makes sense to you.

@Earl, if I did measurements and found overunity in them. I would immediately suspect my equipment of being broken, or faulty, or that I screwed up my measurements somehow. Marco assumed the same thing, unfortunately, we don't know for sure in that case..

Ask EM what its like to proclaim OU and then discover the truth a short time later, and then retract apologetically, this prospect prevents a lot of people from disclosing in the first place, or at all..

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 04, 2007, 10:22:46 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 04, 2007, 11:40:48 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 05, 2007, 01:00:14 AM
Thanks for posting brnbrade. Are you replacing the speaker magnet with the strip of magnets? Also, can you please tell us whether Earl's diagram is exactly correct or not?

Looking forward to results.

I would suggest getting a cheap ammeter. They are not too expensive.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2007, 01:31:14 AM
@gn0stik

What is disrespectful is showing the world you have a working TPU and then hiding it and then hiding behind some-else. Whatever could be said or done on this board is but a tip of a needle compared to the level of such disrespect for the world. Bahhh. 9400 posts and still counting. Call Guiness - quick. Stay tuned to a thread near you.

@Brnbrade

Back to things that really matter. I have asked if it is possible to provide the capacitor values in your tests. On page 20 of this thread, Reply #198, I have posted your pictures with numbers Trial #1 to #5. If you could please refer to these pictures and provide the cap values, this would be minimal for those who have done as you asked to build the device, and we need this to do your replication. Now if your intervention is a learning process, those cap values are part of the process.

As for your second trials, this is very fine, but while you do this, we can at least replicate your first trials. I also understand why you are doing this is to obtain output stability. Farland said this device is like a battery, and like all batteries, I suspect they eventually die. But it is a very good base to build on and we thank you for that.

Also, having a social life is fine. We all have that too, but you came to this board to show and you asked us to build, now we need the cap values to finalize. This is minimal and would take only 5 minutes.

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 05, 2007, 02:51:43 AM
Quote
Last point, but you are not going to like it. Stop talking about SM. He is a total distraction to this endeavor. Stop talking about him and start using your own brains. There is over 9000 posts on SM so what more is there to say? Take back your power. THIS IS NOT A TPU, THIS IS AN ECD. The only power that SM's TPU is drawing in, is your will power. Every few posts and someone starts saying SM said this, SM said that, Enough already. I feel like we're being wacthed by the SM police. Who's spending all these hours, days and months? The guy's a loser for having shafted the world and you guys venerate his every word. I can say alot about this but will not say more here. Stefan, I know. Stay tuned to a new thread near you.

@gn0stik

What is disrespectful is showing the world you have a working TPU and then hiding it and then hiding behind some-else. Whatever could be said or done on this board is but a tip of a needle compared to the level of such disrespect for the world. Bahhh. 9400 posts and still counting. Call Guiness - quick. Stay tuned to a thread near you.

@Brnbrade

Back to things that really matter. I have asked if it is possible to provide the capacitor values in your tests. On page 20 of this thread, Reply #198, I have posted your pictures with numbers Trial #1 to #5. If you could please refer to these pictures and provide the cap values, this would be minimal for those who have done as you asked to build the device, and we need this to do your replication. Now if your intervention is a learning process, those cap values are part of the process.

As for your second trials, this is very fine, but while you do this, we can at least replicate your first trials. I also understand why you are doing this is to obtain output stability. Farland said this device is like a battery, and like all batteries, I suspect they eventually die. But it is a very good base to build on and we thank you for that.

Also, having a social life is fine. We all have that too, but you came to this board to show and you asked us to build, now we need the cap values to finalize. This is minimal and would take only 5 minutes.

Thank you in advance.


Wattsup,

I see you are capable of generating your own noise too  :D

Give Steven Mark a break. He is human and not perfect. Perhaps he sold out for the invention, but that's already water under the bridge.

The fact that he reached out to one individual and conveyed as much information as he was allowed (and more), demonstrates in my mind that he is trying to make up for the past. Despite what you may now believe, and what I used to believe as well, he has provided sufficient information, or clues rather to crack the secret of the TPU.

You are right, in the strict sense, the ECD is not a TPU, nor is the Cook coil. This I am going to hopefully prove in a next post.

Also, I'm glad to see someone else asking for clarification on brnbade's build.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 05, 2007, 07:00:09 AM
@bob.rennips

Thanks for your info, but geez, if you look at Brnbrade's unit, mine is exactly the same, same winding directions and same connection points. Also on Farlands patent, his Figure 2 is identical to mine. But, I will try the other way when I get home as with other configurations, since Brnbrade has not indicated the cap values, etc. I'd like to know what type of capacitor he is using in Trail #1 and #2, please.

As for the core, in the patent Farland states " The iron core A may be solid bar or a bundle of iron wire, the latter giving higher tension to the current with equal length and fineness of wire.

Also, would you agree that when Farland refers to the Primary, he means our secondary and vise versa.

Lastly, for start-up Farland refers to the possibility of using a magnet, an electro magnet or by winding a second Primary on the coils. This sounds like a good idea and can be done easilly. I think this is what Brnbrade has highlighted in his reply #265 on page 27.

I would agree that Farland uses the terms primary/secondary in opposite sense to what we normally understand.

I think we all agree this must be an oscillating system. This in turn means the wire lengths, including the wire connecting the coils together MUST BE identical in each coil set, other wise one coil set will have a different resonance frequency to the other, and as you want one coil set to 'ping' the other coil set they both have to be identical. As you know at resonance the impedance is effectively 0, leaving only the wire resistance.

The Aspden paper makes it clear that the plates of the capacitor need to be elevated to a high voltage to overcome loses due to resistance. To get high voltage on those unconnected aluminimum tubing you're going to need some pulses, the sharper and higher the voltage the better. I know for a fact that collapsing BEMF will charge these plates from the stuff I've been doing. Ideally you'd want alternate pulses into each coil set at the resonant frequency. I'm going to be sparking mine from an ignition coil into both coil sets on the assumpton that there will enough random pulse sequences to start the oscillation off. I reckon sparking from a 12V battery may be sufficient.

Alternatively you could apply level HV to each of the aluminium tubing.

I guess the first thing to check is to ensure each current circuit from primary of one coil set to secondary of the other coil set has the same resonance responce. As you know this can be done by pulsing the circuit with a square wave from a freq. gen without the ground connected, and seeing what freq. gives max voltage.

If you look at Earl's original drawing here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg37680.html#msg37680

You will see that there is not a current  circuit from batttery +ve to -ve. At first I thought this was wrong. This battery is really acting like a capacitor in this circuit and I believe somehow primes the coil winding from a capacitance point of view.

So to summarise to get working IMO:

1. coil sets identical - resonance matching.
2. 3v perhaps even 12V to prime the circuit from a capacitance viewpoint.
3. HV pulses into the windings.
4. Luck!

I believe getting a high voltage on the unconnected capacitor tubing, either indirectly or directly, along with starting up the oscillations, is the key.


Title: Important update Cook + Dr. Aspen
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 10:22:51 AM
Hi All,

I had a feeling, an intuition, yesterday that I should search for Dr. Harold Aspen and give him a call.  We telephoned yesterday about his high-voltage concentric capacitors and he mentioned that he had a very recent update on his Web site.  I downloaded this file, transformed it to PDF, and attach it.

Bruce, please attach this PDF on page 1, post 1.

I suggest everyone reading this.

Dr. Aspen also mentions the same thing that I mentioned about any metallic tubing or layer, regardless of the material.  If you wrap a layer of aluminum around a solenoid winding, you create a one-turn short circuit.  I have difficulty believing that this is positive.  In my opinion, a short-circuit is a big NO-NO and should be avoided by either making a longitudinal slit or using insultating material.

I attach some photos of an aluminized insulator.  Should prevent short circuits.
I will shortly have more images of what Dr. Aspen and I mean about non-short-circuit winding technics.

Whether the Cook device is a low-voltage inductively coupled oscillator, or a high-voltage capacitive arrangement, or both, is a big question.  Questions can only be solved by experiments.

Regards, Earl
Title: FARLAND COOK_Brnbrade_AVOID SHORT-CIRCUIT
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 10:38:11 AM
Hi All,

here is an image explaning how to make an alu layer without causing a short circuit.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: duff on July 05, 2007, 11:24:38 AM
.
Title: Open Letter to Brnbrade
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 11:38:05 AM
Hi all
My secund test.
My secund device is named MagicCoils v2.0  ;D ... I accept suggestions  ;)

I will begin in this project the most didactic. Step by Step.
I only want the friends' patience, I have social life and time for many other things.
Not only besides experiments.
Don't replicate before my tests...

Voyl?

Dear Brnbrade, dear Doug56, Bruce, et al,

My dear friend Brnbrade, until now I think you could say I have been very supportive.
Now that you say that you accept suggestions, I am going to make some suggestions.
My suggestions will be very frank and direct.  We do not have much time left, water from snow melt is rapidly disappearing, the atmospheric oxygen level is falling rapidly.  I have no time to play games.

Because you are limited in your time and resources, just like everyone else here in the forum including myself, I made the effort to help you by drawing images.  I would like to suggest that before starting on another project that you take a few seconds to comment on the efforts that I made to document your schematic.  These few seconds will not impact your social life and I am not asking you to save the world.  What I am asking is that you show basic courtesy to myself and other forum members.

My suggestion is to answer the polite and patient questions from your forum research colleges about the exact test setup where the H4 auto lamp is brightly glowing.  Many want to duplicate this, but you are ignoring them.  By quickly moving on to another experiment, you give me the impression that you are playing games.

Respectfully, Earl
Sorry Bruce, but even good natured, patient Earl, can be pushed too far.

@brnbrade, please confirm whether or not Earl's diagram is correct. Also if you have any details to add about where the bat is connected that would be nice. Also what type of radio did you use when you powered your coil with a radio? And was the output speaker output or headphone output.

If you want to answer in portugese or spanish that's fine.

Rich

Hi Brnbrade,
can you please document your device some more ?
Also can you rebuild 2 more devices and see, if they will
also work ?
Many thanks.

The instructions we have thus far are insufficient. Nobody is attacking anyone, just asking for the whole story. Simple questions are easy to answer. But so far they have been sidestepped by the only person who should be comping at the bit to answer them.

@Brnbrade
As for your second trials, this is very fine, but while you do this, we can at least replicate your first trials. I also understand why you are doing this is to obtain output stability. Farland said this device is like a battery, and like all batteries, I suspect they eventually die. But it is a very good base to build on and we thank you for that.

Also, having a social life is fine. We all have that too, but you came to this board to show and you asked us to build, now we need the cap values to finalize. This is minimal and would take only 5 minutes.

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Mannix on July 05, 2007, 12:39:52 PM
I can actually help here...even though...well you know, its interesting at least..

The aluminum foil technique is called "faraday shielding"it is very common and aluminum is the best thing for this...look up pulse induction metal detector coils. the spacing of this shield is critical in detector coils.

Did i ever mention that I make metal detector coils.?

This may help some folk explore this cook coil phenomenon that has taken many peoples imagination by storm..Put it to good use and explore it for all it is worth....you never know.
All that electrical energy required to create that aluminum...imagine if you could get it back somehow!!

I don't know that there is nothing to find here , There could be lots to discover I do however ,on good authority KNOW that this coil arrangement is not a TPU. The ecd does use the tpu conversion process....so it is similar (a horse told me so).

That does not mean that people should not use all the infromation kindly provided by the experimenters to replicate this cook device......I do think that there is much,much more info on the TPU...Yes its hard and this looks easy..even a patent to copy...time will tell.



Im pretty sure that "conversion" is not exactly easy for people to learn yet..of course eventually it will look ......so simple...just like lighting a fire! Learning is hard and fun!

Good luck and good  work to every body

Im having a break from trying to help here ..Im not very good at it lately. Perhaps the language barrier has me as well.

Back to my accellerator stations 1................2........3.....

brnbrade,
People will exaggerate and misinterpret "your" findings then blame you when "their" expectations are not met...
They don't mean to hurt you,   they just do!
And it helps them ,not one bit.

Lindsay Mannix



Title: Aluminum foil in 1871 ?
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 01:09:33 PM
Thanks for your post, Lindsay.
I know Faraday shielding very well as EE with 40+ years experience.
The big question is the lack of materials in 1871.  This is only 40 years after Faraday discovered interesting things.  Did insulated wire even exist in 1871?  He did not have alu foil at the grocery store in Dodge City.  Tinfoil may have existed at the time, but this would be magnetic most likely.  His patent would not have given any protection if additional layers had not been mentioned in it.

Many have tried to replicate Cook, including forum member Turbo, but until now I only know of Brnbrade who claims to have had success.  The only reasons why this has caught my eye are
Dr. Harold Aspen, a retired physicist mentioned it in a theoretical paper presented at the Berlin energy conference, and
Brnbrade claims to have replicated successfully

Two claims and a theoretical background give this device some legitimacy.

I personally fee that Aspen's capacitor version without cross-linked coils would have more chance of success because:
capacitors can have much lower losses than coils
power increases as the square of the voltage, whereby losses increase as the square of the current

RE: TPU and rotating fields, my next schematic is almost ready, I call it the "rapid fire Rat Race" because it generates signals to cause the magnetic field to rotate very qucikly like a rat chasing its own tail.

Regards, Earl
I can actually help here...even though...well you know, its interesting at least..

The aluminum foil technique is called "faraday shielding"it is very common and aluminum is the best thing for this...look up pulse induction metal detector coils. the spacing of this shield is critical in detector coils. [snip]
Lindsay Mannix
Title: Avoid short circuit
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
Earl,

This would explain why I get nothing.  I will re-wind two more tonight that way. 

Odd question, the patent looks to have tubes, would the Aluminum tubes not be a short?  Maybe there is a cut in they can did not make the patent to protect Cook?

Patents are often writen and drawn not to give out all secrets.  Also the claims have to be writen very intelligently, as broadly as possible, and to cover things without mentioning them.
Yes, a solid alu tube with no slit would present a one-turn short circuit.

Have fun.  Regards, Earl


Only weird thing I get is if I use one certain post on mine, the meter goes right to 0VAC, like a short.
And I used all coated copper wire.

Will rebuild tonight, have steel rod now too.  Maybe find re-bar today.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 05, 2007, 01:45:40 PM
@All,
I have some more testing to do on my Brnbrade coil.  I have completed the construction, although I noticed the primary winding seems to be shorted to the inner aluminium tube somehow - may have been when I put the tube in the drill chuck.

I may need to rewind both too if it is a requirement to insulate the foil as you wrap it onto the windings.

@Brnbrade,
Please post a schematic of your design.

Afixar por favor um diagrama esquem?tico de seu projeto.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Open Letter to Brnbrade
Post by: jacob on July 05, 2007, 02:47:56 PM

Dear Brnbrade...

My suggestion is to answer the polite and patient questions from your forum research colleges about the exact test setup where the H4 auto lamp is brightly glowing.  Many want to duplicate this, but you are ignoring them.  By quickly moving on to another experiment, you give me the impression that you are playing games.

Respectfully, Earl
Sorry Bruce, but even good natured, patient Earl, can be pushed too far.


@ Brnbade

Earl is absolutely right: moving to another project without shedding light on this one gives the impression that you  want to play some kind of game. Why move to something else if:

A. Your experiment was successfull enough to brightly light a 50-60 watts light bulb, and

B. Your setup was genuine and you have, like you said, no intention of deceiving anyone.
Maybe you didn't think of this situation in those terms, but be assured that sweeping everything under the carpet and quickly moving to something else would be a total lack of respect for all of those on this forum who have trusted you, and it would have a substantial negative impact your credibility. So please carefully reconsider.

Regards,

Jacob

     
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2007, 04:16:02 PM
@all

Decided to take a break last night for some quiet fishing time. Found two nice lakes called Trial 1 and Trial 2. Did'nt know how big the fish were so I put on some 3V, to 12V test line and tried so many lures my fingers were getting numb.

Here's a picture of my lures. I guess the fish were not bitting at all.

Tried fishing in many many ways, even switching around my fishing rod.

I guess I will  have to make a new fishing rod, line and "tackle" this problem once more.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: starcruiser on July 05, 2007, 04:47:11 PM
Been reading and had a thought, has anyone tried to use an outboard oscillator to "tickle or kickstart" the coils?

Use a blocking oscillator or a plain old 555 timer circuit using a small torrid coil to influence the  coils?

Another thought regarding the matched tank circuits would be to introduce a variable resistor in the circuit to adjust the resonant frequency of one set of coils to match the other? I suggest this since there is an inherent capacitance in the circuit and the inclusion of a variable resistor will change the time constant for us.

Vacation time starts for me on Saturday so I will be in the lab with my coils trying some of this as well. Just wanting to share a few thoughts for those with already built units.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 05, 2007, 05:02:07 PM
Hi Brnbrade,

A onde voc? conecta a bateria de 12V 7AMP come?a acima suas bobinas?
Que s?o as etapas exatas para seguir o come?o as bobinas?
Obrigado.

_____________________________________________

?Con d?nde usted conecta la bater?a de 12V 7AMP comienza para arriba sus bobinas?
?Cu?l son los pasos exactos para seguir comienzo las bobinas?
Gracias.

_____________________________________________

Where do you connect the 12V 7AMP battery to start up your coils ?

What are the exact steps to follow to start the coils ?

Thank you.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: starcruiser on July 05, 2007, 05:18:05 PM
@GK,

If you have built a Cook Coil setup try your guitar toy on it. That might give you an interesting result.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 05, 2007, 05:32:29 PM
Hi Earl, and All.

I also am in the same boat, having my recent PM's all going unanswered.  So for what it is worth, I think there might not be much further help.  If it comes from him, fine, but I would not count on it.  I am also want everyone to remember that I am just a facillitator in the beginning.  That was my only involvement, other than trying to build his coil some time ago with even LESS information.  Of course it did not work.  It was built in correctly. 

Also, BEP found this out, that the AL varnish turned out to be a marine product to prevent metal/saltwater problems.  I am still trying to find some.  This is what I am going to build with.

Lot's of good ideas here from many of you. 

My question for the day, "Will there ever be an OU device with proper documentation?"

Boy wouldn't that be nice.  I get just as frustrated as all of you.  I just hide it better.   ;D

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 05, 2007, 06:04:41 PM
I trust this was a valuable learning experience for many...especially those that reacted negatively to the very same questions and notions I expressed at the very beginning.

In addition, Please heed the following:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1679.msg38281.html#msg38281

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2654.msg38296.html#msg38296

Cheers,
Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: TKL on July 05, 2007, 06:34:19 PM
Quote
Also, BEP found this out, that the AL varnish turned out to be a marine product to prevent metal/saltwater problems.  I am still trying to find some.  This is what I am going to build with.
This is commonly refered to as "anti-fouling bottom paint".  It is used mostly on pontoons and other aluminum hulled boats.  It is caustic, and requires a special applicators license to purchase.  It does have aluminum oxide, which helps prevent electrolysis, as fiberglass bottom boats use copper oxide.  When owners mistakenly put this wrong paint on their aluminum hulls, they make a nice waterline high battery which removes the pontoon from the paint, and often the boat from the surface of the water....  The idea is as the bottom paint wears away due to abrasion from salt and minerals, and general friction, the aluminum (or copper) oxide prevents the barnacles and slime from growing on the hull.  Some of the newer ablative anti-fouling paints contain a form of pesticide, but often don't work well.

A few years back, the aluminum paint formula was changed, mostly for environmental reasons.  It may still be available, but you will not be able to buy it as a consumer.  Over-the-counter aluminum bottom paints do not use the same material, and thus do not require special applicators license for purchase.  However, the fiberglass boat paints can be purchased with cupreous oxide.  Most of them are an epoxy based paint, and out of curiosity in these applications may cease working after a period of time.  The theory on the boats is that they must be launched within a short period of time - usually a few hours to about 30 days.  In that period of time, the epoxy is curing while in the air.  Once it finally "hard-cures" no more abrasion occurs, hence no more anti-fouling characteristics.  Thus, it must be repainted every year, after it sits out for the winter and fully cures.  It is possible in these experimental test applications, the epoxy could cure, and form an interesting dielectric - it may take up to 60 days. n Moreover, the effectiveness of these paints may work early on, and may quit later - maybe not.  It is hard to say.

Best bet for locating aluminum based bottom paint will be in talking directly to a marine dealer based on the coast, as in-land marina's will likely have little call for bottom painting (no salt water - no barnacles).  Sweet talking the service manager may be the only way to acquire this paint.  You may be able to purchase a small amount if you mention that you are looking to do some touch-ups on a scratched hull.  You could explain that you are trying to solve the world's energy problems, and his donation could be contributing to the betterment of mankind, but he might more likely buy the touch-up reason....

Lastly, read the ingredients of anything you buy - you may find that some people are using the copper based paints, using some of the better (or special) primers - that are also acting as an insulator.  Some may not know, and others may being trying to just make a sale.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 05, 2007, 07:37:20 PM
@bob.rennips

Quote
I think we all agree this must be an oscillating system. This in turn means the wire lengths, including the wire connecting the coils together MUST BE identical in each coil set, other wise one coil set will have a different resonance frequency to the other, and as you want one coil set to 'ping' the other coil set they both have to be identical. As you know at resonance the impedance is effectively 0, leaving only the wire resistance.

In my previous PM, Brnbrade says that the coils length MUST BE identical to both, and not the wires length. "Thick wires = less resitence. Thin wires = more resitence." - say Brnbrade.  ???

@Earl and All

I have insisted to Brnbrade makes at least one sketch at free hand. As professional designer I have conditions to improve the design and post in this forum, but Brnbrade only answers asking for patience therefore he wants make more tests and later would make a detailed scheme.

I am so surprised as much as you with the Brnbrade's new experiment and so anxious as much as you to replicate the first devide. But I still don't having the answers.

I am quite sure that Brnbrade understands everything what you write in this forum. In PM I feel that Brnbrade is in high spirits with experiments, and I also felt that he wants to pass to us something more complet. Perhaps I am right, perhaps not. But I don't know why Brnbrade don't reply us, and begins a new project without explaining the first one.

I already begin my own device based in that we know so far with the Brnbrade experiments and with the Cook's patent. I will finish it in this night and then I will make the tests that later will be shown here.

I agree with Earl and I would like to have the answers more quickly. But, for now we can only make tests based on attempt and error.

Below I'm requesting to Brnbrade the scheme of first device (again) and their capacitors values.

@Brnbrade

E a? Brnbrade, beleza? Perguntas:

1- Voc? poderia fazer um layout do primeiro experimento?
2- Quais os valores dos capacitores usados nas montagens, como o que ? mostrado nas primeiras fotos e naquelas que n?o havia nenhuma bateria alimentando o circuito?
 
O pessoal t? bastante ansioso para replicar seu experimento.

Obrigado e abra?os,


Regards,

Doug56
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: supersam on July 05, 2007, 07:39:37 PM
@all,

after reading this i have to wonder if aluminized, "cool seal", roofing sealant might work?  just a thought.

lol
sam
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 05, 2007, 07:52:34 PM
No joy in my experiments - on this front.

I used identical lengths of wire for the primaries - which means the length of the coils are identical, and identical lengths of wire for the secondaries. Identical sized aluminium foil. With and without capacitors. Wires connected every which way. I've tried sparking with 12v battery and with an ignition coil!. I've used pvc tape as the insulation. Magnet in every known position to man!

As far as I can see the only unknown is how brnbrade sparked his coils into life. As far as I'm concerned it's in brnbrade's hand if he wishes to provide this information. I've pm him in spanish, portuguese and english concerning this.

I think it was great to see the collaboration and energy from everybody in getting diagrams, references and other required items together. Having now read the Harold Aspden information I am even more convinced that the electric field/coil capacitor route is a valid avenue to pursue. Aspects of what brnbrade was doing with his coils will be incorporated into later experiments.

If you've not had a chance take a look at the 'talking about phase' thread. Bob Boyce pretty much spells out what he has achieved with a TPU style arrangement of coils, and how he did it. Note that a key ingredient was to bias the output coil with 150+ DC volts in order for the excess energy to be realised. i.e. finding the circuit potential.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 05, 2007, 07:53:07 PM
Thank you Earl, Wattsup.

Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Gregi on July 05, 2007, 08:45:01 PM
Hi all,

I pretty much have the parts to give it a try, the only thing I don't have yet is the Al varnish.
Now. Is this thing supposed to have Al in it or not?
The one that BEP used or talked about  in earlier pages had no Al contents.
But according to TKM (if I got it right), the Al varnish used for boats have Al in it.
Since noone knows for the moment what really brnbrade used, can those who, already replicated the coils, tell me what did you use?
Or what are your suggestions?

Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2007, 09:01:03 PM
@TKL

Thanks very much for your most informative information on this ALU Varnish. Funny thing, I was gone fishing yesterday and today we talk about boat hull   protection. Very informative, and this sort of confirms that it cannot be such a varnish since I am sure Brnbrade would have mentioned if it took 60 days to cure, per layer because this would have to be constructed layer by layer. So it seems that the varnish you are discibing cannot be used in a Cook coil. This is good to know.

I also called several guys that I know in the motor winding business since over 30 years and NONE has heard of this Alu Varnish. Also calling some long time wholesalers to the motor winding industry and no one has every heard of Alu Varnish.

Maybe if I take some aluminium and grind it down to a fine powder and mix it with regular winding varnish.  Hey we could call it OU Bright!!!

Whatever.

Whoever has a build, put a compass between the coils and send a 3-12v manual pulse on one coil. Point A and B on my photo. See the compass turn and turn even when the current is removed. Very interesting.

Another thing. I feel this circuit will not produce on its own, and I cannot explain Brnbrades exploits. I see this device more as the interface between a power source and a load such as an AC motor. Will try this tonight. 12 volts battery on one end, cook coil, ac motor on the other end and I will check the battery voltage to see if it goes down. The Cook coil could be acting like a bi-directional EMF/BEMF absorber.

Sure would like to know what lures Brnbrade was using.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2007, 10:57:15 PM
@Gregi

Your question is a valid one but at this point I don't think anyone can answer with total certitude.

A few things.

On my build, when I put a compass beside the coils and pulsed the Secondary only, I get no reaction, but when I pulse the Primary only I do get a reaction. This tells me the aluminium foil I have used is doing its job of keeping the Secondary field encapsulated inside the coil. 

I simply rolled the coil three times onto an alumimiun foil sheet per required layer.

But again, at this stage there is no-one here that can assure you of the build.




Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 11:01:58 PM
No joy in my experiments - on this front.

I used identical lengths of wire for the primaries - which means the length of the coils are identical, and identical lengths of wire for the secondaries. Identical sized aluminium foil.

Bob, did the alu foil form a one-turn short-circuit or did you slot it axially respectively insulate the turns so that no turn touches another?  If the alu layer has a short from one layer to the next, it would reflect enormous losses into the coils.

With and without capacitors. Wires connected every which way. I've tried sparking with 12v battery and with an ignition coil!. I've used pvc tape as the insulation. Magnet in every known position to man!

did you try magnetically "sparking" the iron with an electromagnet?  In worst case, glide a wire along a metal file to "buzz" the electromagnet with interrupted pulses.

As far as I can see the only unknown is how brnbrade sparked his coils into life. As far as I'm concerned it's in brnbrade's hand if he wishes to provide this information. I've pm him in spanish, portuguese and english concerning this.

I think it was great to see the collaboration and energy from everybody in getting diagrams, references and other required items together. Having now read the Harold Aspden information I am even more convinced that the electric field/coil capacitor route is a valid avenue to pursue. Aspects of what brnbrade was doing with his coils will be incorporated into later experiments.

It could very well be that even in 1871, essential information was being left out of patents.  My opinion is that it could even work without an iron core.  In this case, it would oscillate perhaps in the MHz region.  No problem today with oscilloscopes, which was not the case in 1871.  In an air-core version, it may be necessary to use HF litz wire to reduce skin-effect losses.

I have a 20 kV DC power supply, so I am toying with the idea of building up Harold Aspen's idea, with no Cook coils.  I have some long lengths of copper water tubing of different diameters that could be held centered with bits of plexiglass.  I may also have some lengths of alu tubing.

Did you read Dr. Aspen's latest update from June 2007?

Have fun this weekend with your experiments, and may the force be with you.


If you've not had a chance take a look at the 'talking about phase' thread. Bob Boyce pretty much spells out what he has achieved with a TPU style arrangement of coils, and how he did it. Note that a key ingredient was to bias the output coil with 150+ DC volts in order for the excess energy to be realised. i.e. finding the circuit potential.
Title: Greg's questions
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 11:10:30 PM
Hi Greg,

I see no reason that alu varnish must be used, and in fact I'm not sure such a thing even exists.  It might be something that only exists in a bad translation from Portuguese.  PVC electrical tape or teflon plumbing tape should work well.

Boat anti-fouling paints usually have poison and/or copper in them.  Some are teflon based.  I am not aware of any boat paints that have alu in them.  My suggestion is to completely ignore talk about alu varnish.

Regards, Earl
Hi all,
I pretty much have the parts to give it a try, the only thing I don't have yet is the Al varnish.
Now. Is this thing supposed to have Al in it or not?
The one that BEP used or talked about  in earlier pages had no Al contents.
But according to TKM (if I got it right), the Al varnish used for boats have Al in it.
Since noone knows for the moment what really brnbrade used, can those who, already replicated the coils, tell me what did you use?
Or what are your suggestions?
Thanks,
Greg
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 11:13:48 PM
Greg,

waxed paper or saran plastic film should also work well as insulator.

Earl
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 05, 2007, 11:16:02 PM
Bob,

did you also try a string of magnets as a core?

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 05, 2007, 11:23:00 PM
Hi Earl,

You are correct that "poor" English could be at play here.  When he sent me that detail sometime ago, he said aluminum varnish.  He could have also meant, Aluminum, varnish. 

This also fits into his schematic of varnishing the aluminum, both the tube and foil.  If you look at his photographs, what kind of varnish does that look like?  On one piece of iron, you can see the metal where the varnish is scratched off. 

@ Doug
If you could clarify with young brnbrade, if it is just regular varnish that he used, that would clear up all kinds of confusion.

I asked him some time ago to check everything on page 1 and to let me know and I never received a response.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 06, 2007, 12:18:53 AM
@Brnbrade:

Ol? Brnbrade,

O pessoal est? bastante confuso aqui.

1- Eles querem saber se voc? usou verniz sobre o alum?nio. Alguns at? sugeriram que voc? tivesse usado um tipo de verniz de alum?nio, mas eu acho que isso nem existe. E se voc? usou verniz, se foi do tipo comum.

2- btentzer pergunta se voc? verificou a 1? p?gina para ver se tudo est? certo ou n?o.

Obrigado e abra?os,

Doug


@btentzer

Done.

Regards

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 06, 2007, 04:06:19 AM
If Cook made this patent 8 years before Edison invented the light bulb, this means he must have been working on it for years before that to perfect it. So he did not know anything about AC, since Tesla was only 15 years old in 1871. So Cook was producing AC and he did not even know it, always callng it current, tension, etc. But the device is also producing DC since I ran a 90V DC motor off the load end with 3 volts. Yes it was turning extremly slow - 3 volts worth. But they did not have capacitors then like Brnbrade is using.

Cooks was talking about coils with up to 12 inch iron cores and up to 12 feet long. Talk about pocket size. He must have had one big chiropractor bill. He was using different wire gauges for different uses. But he really liked using very very thin wire for the secondary and very very thick wire for the primary.

Brnbrade showed on Trial #1 an AC current and on Trial #2 a DC current. But both Trials were identical. Everything was the same. He just turned the voltmeter selector dial from AC to DC and took another picture. Nothing changed. How is that possible? His device was producing both AC and DC.

This weekend I'll build another unit with solid core and different wire ratios, more extreme between sec/pri.

But for now, back to the ECD.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 06, 2007, 04:17:28 AM
If Cook made this patent 8 years before Edison invented the light bulb, this means he must have been working on it for years before that to perfect it. So he did not know anything about AC, since Tesla was only 15 years old in 1871. So Cook was producing AC and he did not even know it, always callng it current, tension, etc. But the device is also producing DC since I ran a 90V DC motor off the load end with 3 volts. Yes it was turning extremly slow - 3 volts worth. But they did not have capacitors then like Brnbrade is using.

Cooks was talking about coils with up to 12 inch iron cores and up to 12 feet long. Talk about pocket size. He must have had one big chiropractor bill. He was using different wire gauges for different uses. But he really liked using very very thin wire for the secondary and very very thick wire for the primary.

Brnbrade showed on Trial #1 an AC current and on Trial #2 a DC current. But both Trials were identical. Everything was the same. He just turned the voltmeter selector dial from AC to DC and took another picture. Nothing changed. How is that possible? His device was producing both AC and DC.

This weekend I'll build another unit with solid core and different wire ratios, more extreme between sec/pri.

But for now, back to the ECD.

Hi Wattsup,

Are you saying that your brnbrade coil shows 3 volts dc, with no input?  Or did I miss something?  And what is the ac output?

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 06, 2007, 04:43:41 AM
No.......

Will re-phrase that.  With a 3 volts supply on the battery end, I hooked up a 90volt dc motor, turning it very slowly. I could see the 3 volts going down off the battery and there was no AC. Bruce, I've tried these coils in so many ways, so many configurations, so many caps here and there and nothing out of the ordinary.

You know what? I think I should just wait for Brnbrade to come back and give some more details on his build.

@Brnbrade

You have to realize that you are on this board with people that have seen so many things that we could call duds, so we all have a natural apprehension to anything that is proposed here. So when we actually do decide to work on a device, we usually go all the way. But our advancement can only be proportional the to the level that the proponent (you) will provide more details. Now if proving more details is not possible, then let's just fold everything up and go home. You are deailing with people here that have been hit hard many times and are tired of mystery. So if this is the way you want to do this, then it will not work here.

Now don't get me wrong. nobody here is asking you to save the world tommorow morning with a fantastic revelation. All we are asking of you is what we expect of each other here on this board. Clear, concise and to the point. No mystery. We've had enough mystery with the TPU proponent.

Case in point. Trial #3. Sound  input producing 250V AC. One would consider this OU. With that already in hand, why would anyone want to try something else when what you have right there is more than enough. You see. Otherwise just come out and say it. "Wattsup, I don't know why and I don't know how but it is what it is". This is perfectly acceptable to us so welcome to the club. But you have to be honest with us from now on.

Such projects are a two way street. There is a discussion from both sides, not only one side asking questions. If you do not know, just say it.

Thanks again and keep well.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 06, 2007, 06:30:18 AM
More info:

I spoke to the 'old man' in the motor repair shop about his bottle labled 'Aluminum Varnish'. It was old but clearly made by 3M and the contents include Cupric Oxide as the only metal substance. I asked him why it was labeled as Al but the label clearly said Cu. Basically he said 'It doesn't matter any more because we aren't allowed to use it.'
I asked what it was used for He said repair of insulation on copper motor windings - they have new stuff now that doesn't require baking.

I asked what would happen if it was applied to Aluminum - he smiled and said the Aluminum would probably crystalize and become unusable after a time with current running through it.

So, my little experiment doesn't even apply to this thread.

I called a local 'well known' paint store that custom mixes and asked for Aluminum varnish. They offered off-the-shelf chain link fence primer and said it was the same thing.

I believe I have some for tower touch-up. I'll slap some on tonight and see what it does. Other than that, I'll wait for details from BrnBrade before continuing with this project.

I do thank BrnBrade for restoring some old knowledge I had completely forgotten. Maybe it can be applied eslewhere.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 06, 2007, 07:36:00 AM
Well, I had hoped for more.

Wattsup. Make yourself a mass equivalent pancake coil and get a ball for the top, and your halfway to a small tesla coil.

EMdevices.

Did you do any more work with yours? Any more anomalous results?

Rich
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 06, 2007, 07:53:04 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 06, 2007, 08:00:40 AM
Hi Earl,

Yes the foil was taped in place just short of a full circle so there wasn't a one turn loop or short circuit.

If I measure an unconnected 12V battery with a digital volt meter on the AC volts setting it records 32V AC!

An oscilliscope shows that the plates of the battery pick up a 0.2V 50hz AC wave from the ambient mains field (Australia 50Hz). This is enough to throw the meter into a tizzy!!

So maybe the AC volts measurements (although high) is just the coils picking up ambient AC fields and the voltmeter screwing up ?

He needs an oscilloscope.

Cheers, Bob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Pegasus on July 06, 2007, 08:59:12 AM
I have the sempsation that brnbrade will not post the details of his finding :'(....
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 06, 2007, 09:38:34 AM
I have the sempsation that brnbrade will not post the details of his finding :'(....

In German there is a saying:

Geduld is das halbe Leben.

which means half of life consists of patience.

Earl
Title: Interference ?
Post by: Earl on July 06, 2007, 09:49:36 AM
Hi Bob,

do you have a flourescent lamp on the ceiling?

do you have a flourescent lamp on your desk?

Do you have one of these energy saving bulbs in the area somewhere?

One time I had a so-called architect's lamp on my table, which was connected via a two-pronged plug to 220 VAC line.  I had to attach a ground wire to its metal structure because it was picking up and radiating too much interference to my measurements.

BTW, check out my latest idea and circuit at:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2582.msg38506/topicseen.html#msg38506
What do you think of the rapid fire Rat Race?  I will soon be modifying it to include the previously developed timing and phase control.  I call it the Rat Race because the rat is running around in a circle chasing its tail just as fast as it can.

Regards, Earl
Hi Earl,

Yes the foil was taped in place just short of a full circle so there wasn't a one turn loop or short circuit.

If I measure an unconnected 12V battery with a digital volt meter on the AC volts setting it records 32V AC!

An oscilliscope shows that the plates of the battery pick up a 0.2V 50hz AC wave from the ambient mains field (Australia 50Hz). This is enough to throw the meter into a tizzy!!

So maybe the AC volts measurements (although high) is just the coils picking up ambient AC fields and the voltmeter screwing up ?

He needs an oscilloscope.

Cheers, Bob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: bob.rennips on July 06, 2007, 10:26:00 AM
This the message I got from brnbrade concerning starting the coil with the 12V battery.
Make of it what you will.

Hi Bob.

My baterry 12v 7A  unloaded your charges.
I am uses a 3v baterry.
They are connected to the ceramic capacitor

____________________________________________

@Earl

The interference comes from 12V halogens I have in the ceiling that are connected to an electronic transformer. When combined with the leading edge dimmer I use to stop my study looking like an operaing theatre - it produces loads of interference not surprisingly.

I regularly switch all lights off and have only a small incandescent bulb on my desk.
My wife says it make me look like a mad scientist!!
I feel like one too....  <cackle><cackle>

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 06, 2007, 07:26:18 PM
I sprayed my tower primer on a hot-rolled iron rod and let it dry. The only thing interesting was when I passed current from the iron to the coating - the current vs. time looked like a tunnel diode. Not very clean at all but the shape was there. The main component in the primer is zinc. I connected to the rod with an alligator clip. My connection to the coating was cat-whisker style with a nickel plated steel wire.

I just read a few posts back about wrapping the foil in a way it did not short on the other side. That reminded me of an old fractal antenna experiment I tried a very long time ago.

PC board etched as follows:

2 circles - one within the other
each not complete
the open ends faced 180 from each other
a wire passed through the center and not making contact with either circle
pass current through the wire
oscillation occurs between the incomplete circles - damped but distinct and longer lived than expected.
So I dropped it and found a better way.

Now have multiple incomplete circles each connected to the metal below and above it (in layers - I say connected because the chemicals in the primer eat at the varnish on the wire) with a
crude negative resistance diode (tunnel). Would the results be interesting? Would Aluminum particulates do something similar? I don't know and won't find out until late this weekend.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 06, 2007, 07:29:59 PM
@Brnbrade

OK, I understand the communication problem. And no, we do not want this to be lost like Tesla, granted he left 100's of Patents for us to "try" and understand. I want to rebuild a new coil set but I need to confirm certain points first to not make the same potential mistakes.

So maybe it is better that I ask you the questions and you can answer either Yes or No to the questions. Here are 28 questions that will enable us to confirm what you are doing.

1) Is the Secondary the thin inner wire. Yes or No

2) Is the Primary the thick outer wire. Yes or No

3) Do you know the wire size for Primary. Yes it is _____ AWG. or No.

4) Do you know the wire size for Secondary. Yes it is _____ AWG. or No.

5) Are both the Primary and Secondary windings in the same direction. Yes or No

6) Are both coils wound in the same manner. Yes or No.

7) If 6 is No, are both coils wound in opposite manner. Yes or No.

8)) Can you provide the ceramic capacitor value as it is written on the
capacitor. Yes or No.

9) If 8 is Yes, please write here what is on the capacitor. _____________________

10) Is there a small magnet or metal connector attached to the black ends of ypur coils. Yes or No or Don't understand the question.

11) Is the Alu Varnish the same used to paint metal fences. Yes or No

12) Is the Alu Varnish painted onto the core. Yes or No

13) How long did you wait for the varish to dry. _________ hours or minutes


14) If 12 is yes, did you wind the secondary directly on the varnished core.
Yes or No

15) If 14 is no, did you wrap aluminium foil onto the varnished core. Yes or No

16) If 15 is Yes, how many layers of aluminium foil did you use. ________

17) If 15 is Yes, did you put Alu varnish on the Alu Foil. Yes or No

18) If 17 is Yes, did you wind the secondary directly on the varnished alu foil. Yes or No

19) If 18 is Yes, did you put Alu varnish on the secondary. Yes or No

20) If 19 is Yes, did you wrap aluminium foil onto the alu varnished secondary. Yes or No

21) If 20 is Yes, did you put Alu varnish on the alu foil. Yes or No

22) If 21 is Yes, did you wrap electrical tape over the alu varnish. Yes or
No

23) If 22 is No, did you wrap the Primary onto the alu varnish. Yes or No.

24) If 23 is Yes, did you wrap electrical tape over the primary. Yes or No

25) Are the connecting wires of the coils as per Cooks patent? Yes or No.

26) Start up the device, are you putting 12 volts onto the ceramic capacitor while the 3 volts is connected to the same capacitor? Yes or No

27) If 26 is Yes, do you connect  the 12 volts on the capcitor or do you pulse the 12 volts manually. Connect or Pulse

28) How long do you connect or pulse the 12 volts. ______ seconds or minutes

Your answers to the above will be of great help and this will enable us to concretely build a new coil for further testing.

wattsup
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 06, 2007, 07:38:31 PM
I don't know why the number 8 came out as a smiley.

@Earl

I'll take two Rat Races to go.  The circuit looks great. Can it do reverse polarity?

Actually I think I will get myself a Pulse Generator since my electronic skills are to limited and I always look to pulse devices with DC.

@BEP

Good work. We'll stay tuned.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: TheOne on July 06, 2007, 07:51:56 PM
the smiley is the cool one using '8'+')' ,just put space between them or disable the smiley in your post
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 06, 2007, 09:44:50 PM
I don't know why the number 8 came out as a smiley.

@Earl

I'll take two Rat Races to go.  The circuit looks great. Can it do reverse polarity?

Actually I think I will get myself a Pulse Generator since my electronic skills are to limited and I always look to pulse devices with DC.

@BEP

Good work. We'll stay tuned.



Hey Wattsup, glad to know I am not the only one!  But..I am learning.  ;)

I sprayed my tower primer on a hot-rolled iron rod and let it dry. The only thing interesting was when I passed current from the iron to the coating - the current vs. time looked like a tunnel diode. Not very clean at all but the shape was there. The main component in the primer is zinc. I connected to the rod with an alligator clip. My connection to the coating was cat-whisker style with a nickel plated steel wire.

I just read a few posts back about wrapping the foil in a way it did not short on the other side. That reminded me of an old fractal antenna experiment I tried a very long time ago.

PC board etched as follows:

2 circles - one within the other
each not complete
the open ends faced 180 from each other
a wire passed through the center and not making contact with either circle
pass current through the wire
oscillation occurs between the incomplete circles - damped but distinct and longer lived than expected.
So I dropped it and found a better way.

Now have multiple incomplete circles each connected to the metal below and above it (in layers - I say connected because the chemicals in the primer eat at the varnish on the wire) with a
crude negative resistance diode (tunnel). Would the results be interesting? Would Aluminum particulates do something similar? I don't know and won't find out until late this weekend.


Hey BEP,

It does sound like grounds for some great experimentation.  I can't wait for the weekend, to see how it goes.

Warm regards,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 03:02:43 AM
OK you guys, here's something weird or wonderful.

I  hooked up the coils in another configuration. I am enclosing a photo of my standard hook-up showing the coils numbered 1 ans 2 and terminals ends identified as A, B, C and D so I can then describe how I connected it. So if I say AS this means the secondary of A, if I say DP this means the primary of D. Got it.

I am also enclosing a photo of my current set-up.

So basically, here's the way I connected my new set-up.

AS to DP, BS to CP, CS to BP and DS to AP.

I connected my Digital Meter to B+ and D-.

I took a 27,000uf 40vdc capacitor and hooked it to my power supply set at 30 vdc for about 15 seconds.

Then I removed the cap from the power supply and connected the positive of the cap to A and the negative of the cap to C.

Obviously I saw the voltage go from 30 vdc quickly down to about 1 volt, then a funny thing happenned.

The voltage started going up on its own very slowly. It's now up to 2.093 vdc oups 2.094 vdc and still going. Will let this sit and see what happens.

I think what will eventually happen is that the voltage will rise to the maximum resonance of the coil and then stay there, but I will see with time.

Oups now 2.101 vdc.

This is the same coils original coils I made on day one. The build is in this thread somewhere. Please try this with your coils.

Now 2.118 vdc
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 07, 2007, 03:33:49 AM
wow! that is interesting...
think i will start a build tomorrow.
keep up the good work.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 07, 2007, 03:53:35 AM
My electrolitic capacitor is so awesome, it doesn't even need a coil to start going up in voltage   :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 04:03:44 AM
Hey Wattsups,
great !
But please try with an analog voltmeter
without any battery in it.

Maybe there is some coupling from the analog to digital
converter of the DVM to your coils  ?
Or is there a Mobile phone broadcast tower near by ?

Please try to shield it all in alufoil or in an iron case and try it again.

Please don?t connect any scope ground to it,
cause I once had something simularandit was caused by my scope ground
coupling in some potential.

Many thanks and good luck !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 07, 2007, 04:43:00 AM
My electrolitic capacitor is so awesome, it doesn't even need a coil to start going up in voltage   :)

EM

So EM, wattsup,

Is this then charging via ambient noise picked up by the coils, or perhaps capacitor recovery, or a combination of both?

@wattsup, is your coil oscillating that you said resonance?

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 07, 2007, 04:51:18 AM
@ All

I finished my device yesterday and already I started to make some tests. See the pictures below - photo 1.

Is a small device (the ruler is im cm), but I get some unexpected results. Fascinating!

I'm making tests without using capacitors therefore I'm without none in good conditions here.

I connected the output to my digital multimeter and input to my PC audio amplifier.

I recorded several waves in several frequencies (squared and senoidal) in Audacity software and play it in PC.

The mutimeter show oscilations between 0.2 to 0.5 volts DC and in AC scale is ever in 2.5 v while playng the waves.

Then I played a music and the display showed a voltage between 3v to 6v DC (remember, without capacitors or any other electronic peaces) - see picture 2.

It seems that the volume does not matter. What matters is the input signal frequency. This makes all difference!

Sorry for poor picture quality. I used my cell phone to take this photos.

Tomorrow I buy some capacitors and continue making tests.

I used domestic aluminium foils in my device, and each set has the follow layers: iron core / electrical tape / aluminium / crepe tape (as insulator) / secundary coil (thin cooper wire) 90 turns / crepe tape / aluminuim / crepe tape / primary coil (thick cooper wire isolated) 21 turns

Regards.

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: starcruiser on July 07, 2007, 04:57:01 AM
Doug,

Have you tried to meter the foil or the core?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 07, 2007, 05:04:05 AM
@starcruiser

No but tomorrow I will make more accurate tests.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 05:40:22 AM
Hi Doug,
 do you also have an analog DC volt meter ?
Please try it with this and maybe put in front also a graetz bridge
rectifier.
DO you have a scope ?
This would the best to measure it with.

Can you please post a screenshot what waveforms you feed to your
coils and what the maximum amplitude is ?

How many Watts does your PC audio amplifier have ?
It is just the basic output from your soundcard ?
What soundcard or audio amplifier do you use ?

Many thanks for these tests.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 07, 2007, 06:13:12 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 06:25:58 AM
@Doug56

That's a nice unit. When using sound as I have also tried with my audio grade PC sound card and mixing station (I compose some music also) and frequency generator software, you have to measure the voltage coming from the sound first. I have seen mine go up quit high when putting sound but the volume was at 10. Measure the sound, and deduct this from the calculation. Also your wiring is not like my current builds but you can try the start-up method and see what happens.

@all

I took the meter off the device at 2.172 volts. Removed the meter, closed everything in the room to go have a coffee. When I came back connected the meter, it was at 2.197 vdc.  It is now at 2.237. I'm afraid to touch it and will leave it there and make another one for more testing.

Cook new it would take a 12 inch rod 12 feet long to maybe run a small industry or more, who knows. His analogy to a battery seems correct. But I would say more a battery charger, no no, OK a battery. I'm using iron baling wire 16 strands 11 inches long. Check the build specs.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg38187.html#msg38187

2.238 vdc

Cook patent mentions that a wire core will give more tension. meaning current or amperage, hence less potential or voltage. More windings means more potential.

The coils are like two water tanks, one on top of the other. The top tank is tall but thin, the bottom tank is short but wide.  The top tank is piped to the bottom tank at bottom tanks' top center. Water can rise into the tall one or fall into the bottom one. This is happening I don't know how many times per second cause I'm afraid to put my scope on it. But what is important is the tank wall thickness (in this device it's the alu foil or al tubing). More thickness means less potential for leaks. My current unit probably has many many leaks and that is why the voltage is rising very slowly.

By isolating the coils fields you are preserving their potential. The core produces the magnetic field

2.241 vdc

Current Builders. Just try it out for yourself so I'm not the only one holding it.

I'll make another one, solid core.

The cap value should not matter. It will give a different effect. But actually, I'm thinking what if the capacitor was AC and you charged it with AC first to start it up. Man, this is going to be fun.

Brnbrade, if you can answer those questions I posted, this would be extremely important for us to learn more.

Start up is giving the capacitor its rated voltage (or as much as you have really) and connecting it to the coils at A and C. The capacitor will fall in voltage and find the coils' resonance on its own. The sound on the coils shot it up to 250V AC. OK.

Without a battery Brnbrade was producing as shown on Trial 4 and 5 located here;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2630.msg38054.html#msg38054

Brnbrade, now I know why the magnet core. Same power but more compact or more power with same size.

Also, more aluminum. I was using 3 layers, but will try 10 layers of alu foil, insulation with electrical tape. Did Cook have electrical tape? Maybe if he did, he would have used it as an insulator. Imagine. lol

2.244 vdc

It has now been at 2.244 vdc for quiet some time now and is staying there. This is very important and indicates that my build resonance can produce this much, that quick.

I want a new coil, or should I try another cap? I'll sleep on it and look at it in the morning. But for now, back to my ECD.

Builders try it out.

@btenzer

Maybe you can add the links above on page one and make a section for builders who post their build specs and other major posts such as my previous post under this builder. That way we can keep better track of things. The link to the Brnbrades pictures with Trial numbers is also good to put on page one as the reference when we talk about methods.

Stil 2.244 vdc, like I said weird or wonderful. But it's a start.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 06:34:13 AM
@Brnbrade

Funny you should show that Tesla patent.

I have been thinking about that one since Erfinder came here and I had started to make a baling wire ring as shown. Never got around to it but will do it eventually.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 07, 2007, 06:53:09 AM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 07, 2007, 06:53:52 AM
Hi Stefan,

Sorry, I don't have a analog voltmeter nor osciloscope.

I will build a bridge graetz in this weekend.

Below I sent a screenshot from software "Spectran" which analises frequencies and show as spectrum. This refer to the music which I have tested in my device. The marked part is where the voltage seems more strong. If you want, I can send the wav from this part to you.

The input signal is from integrated ampifier and speakers that's connected in soundcard.

I connected left and right channel together in a input point, and connected the ground in another input point. I dont know how many watts, but I think that it has 100 - 150 watts. It have small size.

My soundboard is onboard (C-Media AC97 Audio Device).

A interessant thing: When I stop the music, the volts scale jump to negative values (-2,5 / -2 / -1.5 ...) and stay for several seconds arround -1 v. Why?

I need find a harmonic frequency to excite the device ressonance. I will test with another musics and frequencies to see.

@wattsup

Quote
you have to measure the voltage coming from the sound first

Sure. Zero volts!

Quote
Also your wiring is not like my current builds but you can try the start-up method and see what happens.

I will try in this weekend in the way that you make.

I also notice that you and some others builders don't followed the Brnbrade's coils orientation, like is shown in pictures (See trial #1). The wiring is inverted. The front set coil is clockwised and the other is anticlockwised. In my arrange, I oriented the secondary in same orientation that the primary.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 07, 2007, 07:05:14 AM
wattsup wrote:
Quote
Cook patent mentions that a wire core will give more tension. meaning current or amperage, hence less potential or voltage. More windings means more potential.

wattsup, actually, the term "tension" is not used very much any more, but refers to the more modern term "voltage".

If you read through the Cook patent, he too means "voltage" when he says "tension".

So for one example, when Cook says:
Quote
...to raise the tension of the terminal current...

in modern terms this would read:
Quote
...to increase the terminal voltage...

Cheers.
Darren
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 07, 2007, 07:12:50 AM
@ Wattsup
I have two links on page 1 for you.  One is your coil build details and the second it the new way you connected the coils. 

@ Doug
Could you please explain how you are placing the sound into your coil?  If buy a speaker, or directly wired?  If directly wired there has to be some voltage.  I have done many experiments from sound card outputs and radio outputs for HHO experiment in days gone by and there is always some small voltage or a speaker would not function.  So if it is wired, please tell exactly how, and how you measured the voltage.

Many Thanks!  :)

Bruce
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 07:13:41 AM
@Doug56

Look at Trial #1 again more closely, you will see that they are wound the same.

This is why I asked Brnbrade to answer those questions so we could have it on record once and for all. But I guess once there are many builds, we'll have time to test other arrangements.

Measure the voltage from your sound with the AC.
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: CodeWebs on July 07, 2007, 07:17:12 AM
I made this setup on one piece of rebar and i found that my results are very like those of wattsup.  I had just a 9-volt battery connected to the device (everything is made as stated on post one for the most part, except i used scotch tape for the insulator and one solid core) and the volts showed around 8 volts to start, then dropped down to nearly 0 then began to climb up again.  I did not think much of these results, until i saw wattsup post similar results.  I then connected the 9-volt batter and a capacitor to the unit and the same thing happened.  I disconnected the 9-volt batter and the capacitor's voltage dropped to nearly 0 and started to climb back up to around 1.4 volts and then stopped changing.  I'm not sure what that means really, to be honest i just stumbled onto this post as i was looking around and decided to try and build it.
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 07:21:11 AM
Please Doug,
could you use a software oscilloscope for your soundcard to see,
what kind of voltage are there on your coils ?

Here are many free software scopes:

http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/test-software.htm

Looking forward to your tests.
Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Please, for not blowing up your soundcard input
use a foil capacitor of at least 1 uF( no electrolyte cap)  in series at the input of your soundcard,
so it will not register DC input voltages.

You can measure the DC components later, if you know,
what kind of frequencies there are involved.

Please also try not to ground your PC,
so you might need to modify your AC grid power supply cable to the PC
by isolating the grounding connection.

! Be cautious then , only use this temporarly to measure this
coil setup as the grounding normally is there to prevent
electrical shocks from loose cables inside the power supply !
You do this on your own risk.!

Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 07, 2007, 07:28:30 AM
...
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 07, 2007, 07:46:30 AM
@ BRNBRADE

Why is their coil 2 volts and yours 250 volt?

HOW is their coil different from yours?


Bruce
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 07:56:47 AM
@stefan

I know as much about my scope as I do about crows' feet. I put the Div on 1 because could not see anything otherwise.

Here are some shots. I am putting a few because the scope keeps shifting from one form to another. These shots give you a good range of shifts. The scope is well focused.

@Brnbrade

So am I!!!!!! Thanks.

@btenzer

I have a feeling the fun will be to figure it out. It won't be long.
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: TheOne on July 07, 2007, 08:09:30 AM
if you are getting 2 volts you cannot connect on LED on the circuit and at least see the light!
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 09:22:39 AM
@wattsup,
what is the time deflection saying ?
How many millisec or mikroseconds per div ?

Can you sync the scope to the waveform ?
Hmm, do you have a friend who knows better how to use a scope ?

You need to set the scope onto DC input and set the sync to
your input channel and choose the right trigger threshold voltage
level, so it always triggers at the same input voltage level.
Please set the amplifier settings a bit lower, so you have 0.5 Volts / div

Then the amplitude will be bigger on the scope and the sync circuit inside the scope
works better too.

Maybe if you get a stable picture, then take a new screenshot please.
Otherwise , can you compare the waveform with a pure 50 or 60 Hz Waveform
from the AC grid ?
Does it have the same frequency as the output from your coil device ?

The question is, if your device just picks up any AC grid radiation from
a nearby transformer, maybe from your halogen lamp on your table
and induces it into your coils ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: pese on July 07, 2007, 10:06:29 AM
 .
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 07, 2007, 10:21:01 AM
...

Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 07, 2007, 11:47:32 AM
@Wattsup,
I think you are seeing 50/60Hz mains noise.
I saw this on my setup.
It is most noticeable when you touch the copper end of one the coils with your finger.
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 07, 2007, 11:50:33 AM
@brnbrade,
We have the necessary information.
Now it is building RMF.  ;)

Please post a circuit diagram of your set-up so we WILL have the necessary information.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 07, 2007, 03:33:01 PM
@btentzer

I connected the device from headphone output as shown in bellow illustration.

@wattsup

Quote
Look at Trial #1 again more closely, you will see that they are wound the same.

Please, examine the pictures carefully. I highlited the winding and each set, and this seem in reversed orientation. I don't know if that makes some difference, but maybe only making tests to see.

@ Stefan

Thank you for informations. I will examine my experiments carefully henceforward. I will also try use a MP3 portable (like iPod) in my next experiments playing music and pure frequencies. I notice when I use low frequences, the voltage is also low, and when I use high frequence, the voltage increase, independent to amplitude.

In any way, only tomorrow I posts the new results, because I have to build some hardware to make the tests.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 07, 2007, 03:38:57 PM
@ Doug
Thank you for the recheck

I think you idea of amplitude affecting things is keen and correct!

@ All
I would certainly continue to experiment, but I believe from past experience that Rob (meggerman) might be correct.

On my very first TPU that I wound, It showed 38 volts AC with nothing connected.  It was NOT OU, everytime my hand approached the volts went up, even connecting the voltmeter to it caused it to happen.  It's close proximity to anything electrical and it just picked it up.  It had no current whatsoever. 

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 07, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
@ Doug

A good experiment for you would be to seperate the right channel and input it on the opposite end of the coil, to give you same signals, opposing one another, slightly out of phase.  IF it is stereo.

Many thanks.
Bruce
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 03:48:27 PM
Hi Doug,
many thanks for posting the new pictures.

What about using white noise as the audio source ?
Please try this also as this has many high frequency components.
ALso try to put a real load resistor onto your output parallel to your
DVM cables, like a 10 Ohm to 1  KOhm resistor and measure then again the voltage at it.

You can then also only use one channel of the stereo audio output,
as with stereo some frequency components from the noise could otherwise cancel out.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 05:15:21 PM
@stefan

The scope shots are almost identical on AC or DC - Div 1. My scope is a Hitachi V-650F, pretty old so it does not have all the bells and whisltes.

@EM

I know what you are saying. I put my meter on this cap and it stayed at .22 vdc, didn't budge on its own. This capacitor is as dumb as it gets. But when on the Cook coil it starts going up.

@all

From last night to this morning it is up to 6.57 vdc and I will now remove it to try some other tests, since for me, I know it is not coming from the inherent ability of the capacitor alone.

I will remove the capacitor and start trying some other tests as I am confident I can recreate this effect anytime with this particular capacitor.

What I am thinking is the higher the uf of the capacity, the more tank like it is regardless of the voltage so there is depth in the capacitance for the current to flow into and out of. I would suspect Brnbrades' ceramic capacitor has high uf at the lowest voltage possble for such a component. Will start try more caps and in more combinations.

@Doug56

I know it's hard to actually see for 100% clarity but I think you are wrong on the directions.  On coil B, left primary is going up the same as the coil A. But again we could go through this with 10 people and get a mix of views. It will have to be tried.

As for your frequency, your dirgam depicts pretty well what I had also been testing. I am enclosing a zip file with two frequency generator programs you can use to test with. When I was testing with sound, I was getting almost nothing on DC and some mVolts on AC. But I did not try it yet with the proper Start-up so will try again.

@all

I am sure the coils have to be well isolated with the aluminium foil. More foil. Also, Brnbrades core is solid with probably 3-5 times the mass of my wire core, so this will play on stability.

@Brnbrade

If you can take the time to answer my question 1 - 28 this would help. If you do not want to give out the cermaic capacitor value that's ok, I'll find it eventually but the other build information would be useful for comparison purposes.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 07, 2007, 06:19:19 PM
Hello all
tesla practiced these same methods

Tanks


Brnbade,

We know this already. Neither is Cook coil a new concept to most of the people here. And the importance of such LL circuit is recognized by all of those who have some understanding of the TPU.

What is at stake here is that you've posted a picture that shows a setup of yours where there seem to be a COP of at least 10. Yet, you continue to totally ignore every relevant question about it. In short, you are displaying the caracteristic behaviour of someone who is stuck with a lie, don't know how to get out of it, and who whishes that the issue will just go away. It won't! And the only way to get out of it is to come clean. Maybe it's not easy, but it's the only way.


@ All

Human nature always being true to itself, and considering Brnbade unwillingness to even acknowledge questions about his experiment, we must conclude that the picture showing an halogen bulb brightly lighted up, was tricked. It is therefore no coincidence if the wire from the battery is outside of the picture. The real power must have been his 12V motorcycle battery. I guess some people just get a KICK doing stuff like that.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 08:22:28 PM
@jacob

I could say the same thing about the TPU after so many years.

With the exception that here is someone who does not hide behind someone else, comes forward, and shows us some interesting work. He is not the authority of this knowledge but just wants to show what he is doing. If he studied with Erfinder, then don't expect all the answers. This forces us to think on our own, I know. It's a piss-off but hey.

Granted more info on his build like answering my 28 questions (with a simple Yes or No - discreet plug) would help. But again, nothing is better then trying it. Brnbrades build would be just another point in comparison to the others building.

Jacob, I looked at all his photos very carefully also looking at the meter calibration set-screw to see if it was re-adjusted and no. That calibration screw never budged. So yes we all have our doubts as do I also, but only by testing will it be known. Someone here is bound to fall on another angle and all the angles put together will give us more data for a better design. Weird or wonderful.

Cooks patent text is only 1 1/2 pages. If he made it 5 pages, we would still be stumped and probably have to wade through to much information that risks steering us in so many ways elsewhere. Like the TPU today. How many angles? What concrete test did SM give you guys to try and corroborate at least one bit of something, not even a smidgen. Bahh.

@all

Tried with two capacitors, (27,000uf 40vdc and 25,000uf 25vdc), started them up with 32 vdc and placed one on each side A-C and B-D and voltage went down then back up more quickly it's at 2.826 vdc. Left alone these caps are next to dead. More trials to come.  Now 2.833 vdc.
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: pese on July 07, 2007, 09:05:40 PM
can you lightning an
flashlight bulb 3,0 to 4,5volt (usually)
with them ??
IF : So it comes POWER out.!!!

Voltages with no Amps , its  =
NOTHING


Pese
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 07, 2007, 10:52:32 PM
...
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 11:04:54 PM
@pese

Thanks for your PM which I have kept in mind.

OK I tried as follows;

Took a small 1200uf 25vdc cap and put it on A-C.

Started the cap with 31.5vdc. Voltage starts to fall until 1.2 volts and started going back up fast up to around 2.2 volts.

I connected a 12v led that I know draws 150 mA. Connected the negative onto B then held the positive just for a second or so onto D. The light lit very dimmly and the voltage fell by .3-.4 vdc and when I took off the positive it started going right back up so I could do this continuously on and off and the voltage does not drop down to zero. I can't calculate how much wattage that is but I know for a fact that there is something there and now I can do it with a very smaller cap. Will try other ways. Reminds me of Macedonia's 10 second charge - 2 second light with his bifilar coil and frequency pulsing. Mind you that I am not using a constant 3v or 12v feed or anything. Will get around to that also. But there are so many ways to try this. Please don't grill me on this as these are simply tests.

@Brnbrade

Keep talking. Don't be shy. Does 28 questions ring a bell?
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 07, 2007, 11:42:15 PM
@jacob

I could say the same thing about the TPU after so many years.

With the exception that here is someone who does not hide behind someone else, comes forward, and shows us some interesting work...
 

@ Wattsup

I understand how you feel. But in my opinion, SM is a gentleman, he speaks the truth, and he has a genuine desire to help as much as he can, within the parameters of what he is allowed to say, and what he isn't. Brnbade on the other hand is being dishonest and disrespectfull. Even the email he gave when he joined this forum is a fake. There is a pattern of deceit here.

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 08, 2007, 12:32:48 AM
@brnbrade,

Por favor pode voc? afixar um diagrama de circuito ou uma foto de sua instala??o.

Please can you post a circuit diagram or photo of your setup.

Kannst du einen Schaltplan oder ein Foto deiner Einstellung bitte bekanntgeben.

Potete inviare prego uno schema circuitale o una foto della vostra messa a punto.

Puedes fijar por favor un esquema circular o una foto de tu disposici?n.

Pouvez vous veuillez signaler un sch?ma de circuit ou une photo de votre installation.

Пожалуйста, вы можете отправить схемы или фотографии ваших настроек.

あなたの組み立ての回路図か写真を掲示できる。

당신은 당신의 체제의 회선도 또는 사진을 배치할 수 있다.

Have I missed any language?  I could try telepathy but he may have his fingers in his ears and saying "tra-la-la-la-can't-hear-you....."
;)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: TheOne on July 08, 2007, 12:38:00 AM
you forget the venusian and marsian language
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 08, 2007, 12:50:53 AM
Hmm,
any other idea how we can bring BRnBrade to speak more to us ?

I don?t want to ban or chase him away over here, but his lack in
answering any questions is a bit annoying...

@Doug and @Wattsup,
please can you connect around 1 KOhm resistor to your output and
measure then again your voltage ?
Will it fall ( decrease)  fast ?

Can you lightup a red LED with it ? ( Which needs about 1.7 Volts to light up)
Can you get the LED to light up contantly ?

Please let us know.
Many thanks.

Otherwise I wonder, if you not only picking up 50 or 60 Hz from
the grid or RF from any mobile phone tower and "rectify" it somehow into the cap...
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 08, 2007, 03:53:43 AM
Hmm,
any other idea how we can bring BRnBrade to speak more to us ?

I don?t want to ban or chase him away over here, but his lack in
answering any questions is a bit annoying...

@stefan

Thanks alot. I guess when the moderator of the board comes out and says stuff like the above, any self respecting person would do as Bnrbrade has done and remove all his posts. Why deal with all this noise.

Just when I got up to 7.46 vdc after trying about 100 cap combos. But no problem. It's only time and life.

@Brnbrade

If you speak with Erfinder, please tell him I would like some lessons also. I can be reached via my e-mail. Have a good life. Now go have another bear. You earned it.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 08, 2007, 04:34:05 AM
Hmm,
indeed he has removed his postings...
why ?


Anyway,I had stored fortunately his pics to my harddrive,
here they are again.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 08, 2007, 04:36:55 AM
And here is the one with the light bulb:

Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 08, 2007, 04:40:32 AM
I have added the pictures to the first page as inline pictures.

I am curious, if Brnbrade will ever come back and report more findings ?
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 08, 2007, 05:00:10 AM
Hi Stefan,

First off, please do not feel too bad.  There was not many posts to delete, or very much information.

He is a young high schooler who needs to mature and realize you can not make a claim like that and not answer any questions.  And the questions were easy. 

Lastly, when he asked me to post initially, I told him then, that I would not do it unless he had every thing ready and answers to a list of questions I had sent him that he would be asked.  He promised he would.  Well he did not keep that promise.  And was so quick to go off onto another new invention, instead of studying, with everyones help, the coil he already said worked. 

I would encourage those who have wound coils to continue to report any progress and we will see what comes of it.  ;)  Just my 2 cents...

Cheers,
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 08, 2007, 05:16:43 AM
Hey guys, also as an addendum, I just noticed something.

If you look at the pictures above, where the two orange wires come to the bulb. And you see the two battery cables that lead to the stereo, Think of those out of phase frequencies opposing one another as they travel in opposite directions in the coil.  As I have said, quoting Tesla, opposing identical signals, different sources, do not cancel.  They do not even know the other is there except for the magnetics.

Now those with coils might try stereo, no ground hooked to the coil, and input them where young brnbrade did in the picture with the lit bulb and see what you get, left channel to one wire, and right channel to the other.....

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 08, 2007, 07:45:00 AM
@ btentzer
Ha ha.
Sinto muito mais ? um oportunista grande.
Aprendendo com voc?s. Quando um T.P.U. estiver pronto funcionando talvez reenvendico minha parte nele.
Eu sei virar campo magnetico. cof.. cof... E voc?? Aprendi com seus pr?prios erros. Eu sei oscilar campo magnetico... e voc??
Aprendendo comigo meu amigo.
? facil por ovo em p?, eu aprendi... E voc?? Vai copiar minha id?ia... Eu vi a turbina girar e voc?.
Claro, Algum dia voc?s v?o trope?ar na verdade.

@ Jacob

Sinto muito. Nada a declarar para voc?. Venha ver meu despositivo trabalhando.
? facil levantar um nome e apontar um dedo. Eu iria postar meu diagrama como prometido em duas ou tres semanas, mais n?o sabem esperar.
Copiar ideias ? f?cil. E fazer funcionar? Eu consegui...
? engra?ado. Todos que est?o tendo sucesso est?o sendo devorados vivos por alguns. Alguns que s? teorizam. bal bla bla
SM foi grandioso e astuto, mas n?o vejo sua tecnologia disponivel para n?s.


@ Wattup

Obrigado. Talvez foi o ?nico que conseguiu enchergar um pouco do que eu estou tentando fazendo aqui.

@ Stefan

A pouco n?o postarei mais nada no forum.
Mais estarei aqui aprendendo com seus pr?prios erros.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 08, 2007, 07:52:58 AM
greetings!
built 2 sets today.

i have wired it the way wattsup did and am experiencing the same creeping voltage gain.
i didn't charge the cap (4700 uf 35v) at all...just used a stack of ceramic magnets to start.
took around an hour to get .59 volts.

maybe its just picking up some grid interference? ...but maybe it is not.
more tomorrow.
i need to build that diode protection circuit so i can use sound card as a scope.
(http://libsyn.com/images/nutekk/5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 08:10:00 AM
brnbade,

Perhaps you might try putting yourself in the shoes of the people here that had faith in what you were saying to them from the beginning. They did not question your authenticity. They gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you let them down.

So, if you were them, how would you be feeling right now?



Talvez voc? p?de tentar p?r-se nas sapatas dos povos aqui que tiveram a f? em o que voc? lhes dizia do come?o. N?o questionaram seu authenticity (genu?no). Deram-lhe o benef?cio da d?vida, e voc? deixou-os traga.

Assim, se voc? fosse eles, como voc? estaria sentindo direito agora?
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 08, 2007, 08:30:57 AM
brnbade,

Perhaps you might try putting yourself in the shoes of the people here that had faith in what you were saying to them from the beginning. They did not question your authenticity. They gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you let them down.

So, if you were them, how would you be feeling right now?



Talvez voc? p?de tentar p?r-se nas sapatas dos povos aqui que tiveram a f? em o que voc? lhes dizia do come?o. N?o questionaram seu authenticity (genu?no). Deram-lhe o benef?cio da d?vida, e voc? deixou-os traga.

Assim, se voc? fosse eles, como voc? estaria sentindo direito agora?

Eu n?o nunca reenvidiquei nada.
Eu apenas estava testando meu dispositivo e obtendo resultados satisfat?rios. (COP acima de 10)
com apenas pouca entrada.
Alguns est?o vendo que esse dispositivo por ele mesmo enchendo de poder. S? postei os testes. Tenho outro projeto na frente deste. Maior que este. Meu tempo ? maior parte nele. Este cook McFarland s?o testes e provas de conceitos.
 






Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 08, 2007, 08:33:29 AM
i have now added a led to the circuit.
it is continuing to rise @ .79 volts now
seems to me at some point this led will light?
i guess as someone said voltage with no amperage is nothing

once the correct voltage is attained will it drain the cap?
is an led always using something
tempted to stay up now...
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 08:50:37 AM
brnbade,

If you were only testing your device, that is ok.
If you were getting a COP of 10 with your device, that is ok.
If you did not want to tell people how exactly to make the device you were showing, that is ok too.

If you are achieving a COP of 10, then of course people here will want to build it too. But if you do not want to provide the complete instructions, then you must say that also. If you do not say this, people will expect that you will provide the information.

Do you see why the problems resulted? It is important to state your intention at the start.


Se voc? estiver testando somente seu dispositivo, aquele ? aprovado. Se voc? estiver conseguindo um ganho de 10 com seu dispositivo, aquele ? aprovado. Se voc? n?o quiser dizer a povos como exatamente o fazer ao dispositivo estavam mostrando, isso ? aprovado tamb?m.

Se voc? estiver conseguindo um ganho de 10, a seguir naturalmente os povos aqui querer?o construi-lo tamb?m. Mas se voc? n?o quiser fornecer as instru??es completas, ent?o voc? deve dizer aquele tamb?m. Se voc? n?o disser este, os povos esperar?o que voc? fornecer? a informa??o.

Voc? v? porque os problemas resultaram? ? importante indicar sua inten??o no in?cio.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 08, 2007, 08:59:37 AM
brnbade,

If you were only testing your device, that is ok.
If you were getting a COP of 10 with your device, that is ok.
If you did not want to tell people how exactly to make the device you were showing, that is ok too.

If you are achieving a COP of 10, then of course people here will want to build it too. But if you do not want to provide the complete instructions, then you must say that also. If you do not say this, people will expect that you will provide the information.

Do you see why the problems resulted? It is important to state your intention at the start.


Se voc? estiver testando somente seu dispositivo, aquele ? aprovado. Se voc? estiver conseguindo um ganho de 10 com seu dispositivo, aquele ? aprovado. Se voc? n?o quiser dizer a povos como exatamente o fazer ao dispositivo estavam mostrando, isso ? aprovado tamb?m.

Se voc? estiver conseguindo um ganho de 10, a seguir naturalmente os povos aqui querer?o construi-lo tamb?m. Mas se voc? n?o quiser fornecer as instru??es completas, ent?o voc? deve dizer aquele tamb?m. Se voc? n?o disser este, os povos esperar?o que voc? fornecer? a informa??o.

Voc? v? porque os problemas resultaram? ? importante indicar sua inten??o no in?cio.

Sim, os problemas aparecem porque n?o esperou o tempo certo.
Eu ia postar em duas ou tr?s semanas o diagrama. Mais a citua??o ? hostil
pela falta de pasci?ncia, comunica??o e tempo.

Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 09:16:57 AM
brnbade wrote:

Quote
Yes, the problems appear because I did not wait the certain time. I am going to post in two or three weeks the diagram. More the situation is hostile for the lack of patience, communication and time.

Yes you have assessed the situation correctly.

But, it is important to say at the beginning that you will provide diagrams in two or three weeks. You must understand that people would like to build your device at the moment you tell them, not three weeks later.

So next time, I encourage you to state your intention with your first post. Be honest and say that you will not provide the diagrams until you are ready.


Sim voc? avaliou a situa??o corretamente.

Mas, ? importante dizer no come?o que voc? fornecer? diagramas em duas ou tr?s semanas. Voc? deve compreender que os povos gostariam de construir seu dispositivo neste momento que voc? lhes diz, n?o tr?s semanas mais tarde.

Vez assim seguinte, eu incentivo-o indicar sua inten??o com seu primeiro borne. Seja honesto e diga que voc? n?o fornecer? os diagramas at? que voc? esteja preparado.

Darren
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 08, 2007, 09:24:41 AM
brnbade wrote:

Quote
Yes, the problems appear because I did not wait the certain time. I am going to post in two or three weeks the diagram. More the situation is hostile for the lack of patience, communication and time.

Yes you have assessed the situation correctly.

But, it is important to say at the beginning that you will provide diagrams in two or three weeks. You must understand that people would like to build your device at the moment you tell them, not three weeks later.

So next time, I encourage you to state your intention with your first post. Be honest and say that you will not provide the diagrams until you are ready.


Sim voc? avaliou a situa??o corretamente.

Mas, ? importante dizer no come?o que voc? fornecer? diagramas em duas ou tr?s semanas. Voc? deve compreender que os povos gostariam de construir seu dispositivo neste momento que voc? lhes diz, n?o tr?s semanas mais tarde.

Vez assim seguinte, eu incentivo-o indicar sua inten??o com seu primeiro borne. Seja honesto e diga que voc? n?o fornecer? os diagramas at? que voc? esteja preparado.

Darren

N?o postarei mais. Diante desta situa??o me calarei.
Melhor ser bom observador.
Estarei aqui montando o resto do quebra cabe?a, mas n?o postarei mais nada.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 09:31:35 AM
branbade,

So keep doing your good work. You seem like an intelligent young man, and mature for your age.

Many people here are waiting patiently for your diagrams etc. when you are prepared. Use the time you require.


Continue assim fazendo seu trabalho bom. Voc? parece como um homem novo inteligente, e amadurece-se para sua idade.

Muitos povos aqui est?o esperando pacientemente por seus diagramas etc. quando voc? ? preparado. Use o tempo onde voc? requer.

Adeus,
Darren
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 08, 2007, 09:37:41 AM
branbade:

Thank you and we look forward to your completed analysis, including circuit description in the next couple of weeks.

Regards

chrisC
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 09:55:22 AM
The translation was not clear.

I think he meant to say that he was going to post in two or three weeks. That was before.

But he has said now in his last post that he is not going to post anymore.

Leave it at that, and give him time to reflect. If he wants to post again, he will.

He may not.

Either way, there is nothing to gain in asking anything further....agreed?
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 08, 2007, 10:06:41 AM
Darren & all:

Thanks for re-establishing rap ore with Brnbrade. Please give him the room and space he needs. He has already expressed before he has another life to live besides working on coils!

Brnbrade, please post again when you are ready to show us you have a COP > 10 device. Thank you.

chrisC

Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: MeggerMan on July 08, 2007, 11:04:20 AM
@Brnbrade,
Pesaroso se eu o virar em qualquer maneira.
Eu penso que se mencionou antes que voc? estava partindo por uma semana ou dois e que voc? estava indo fornecer em seguida os diagramas e os detalhes isso.
Eu penso que experimentando continuar? e pode ent?o ser refinado com seus detalhes quando voc? est? pronto.

Eu olho-lhe para a frente que afixa mais detalhes no futuro e eu continuarei com a informa??o que voc? forneceu assim distante.

Sorry if I have upset you in any way.
I think it was mentioned before that you were going away for a week or two and that you were going to provide the diagrams and details after that.
I think experimenting will continue and can then be refined with your details when you are ready.

I look forward to you posting more details in the future and I will carry on with the information you have provided so far.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: dlwammo on July 08, 2007, 10:50:09 PM
I had posted previously about the McFarland-Cook Patent and Aspden. Now take the
McFarland-Cook Patent and combine it with the one attached???

Especially interesting is section 5-65...  I do believe he is "intimating" that it is possible
to get overunity with this? Even without the McFarland-Cook coils.

What the Flux (or should I say multiple flux lines) do we have here?
Hmmm...

Dan
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: lancaIV on July 08, 2007, 11:25:41 PM
Hello Brnbrade,
pode ser,que este publica?ao do inventor Adolf Zielinski
da-lhe uma inspira?ao mais moderna :
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE4318270&F=0

Vo?e poderia me explicar o seu enthusiasmo em rela?ao do COP:10,
pourque quando eu leio este publica?ao:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=FR667647&F=0
aonde tambem vo?e le dum COP:10
eu fa?o primeiro uma calcula?ao do investimento:
para 300W de saida amplificada mais/menos 1 metro de largura de ferro !
Por cada 20HZ !
Muito material para um pequeno efeito !

Ate breve
             dL
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: lancaIV on July 08, 2007, 11:37:56 PM
Hello dlwammo,
Keiichiro Asaoka( and his partner Ogino:SUMO-Motor),Heinrich Kunel,
Galey,von Hoyer,Kroll,Zielinski et cetera .... these inventors are all to find
in the MEG-section !

I do not know about Asaoka real-world applications,
but about Sanshiro Ogino :
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=EP1058372&F=0
and now:
www.japancorp.net/Article.asp?Art_ID=12282

or another competitor: www.ismogen.com   Yamaha 600W versus Ismogen 250W

S
  dL
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on July 09, 2007, 12:49:40 AM
....
Especially interesting is section 5-65...  I do believe he is "intimating" that it is possible
to get overunity with this? Even without the McFarland-Cook coils.

What the Flux (or should I say multiple flux lines) do we have here?
Hmmm...

Dan

Hi Dan,

Asaoka states in his patent you uploded that he measured 40 times LESS input energy need for getting the same flux density when he used his setup with a permanent magnet.  In itself this is really significant but still only a possibility towards overunity, you have to experiment hard to achieve or even approach this.  He left open this, probably due to the USA patent granting process (claiming OU in a USA patent is equal to having your application rejected).

Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 09, 2007, 01:02:34 AM
@Brnbrade

Take your time. Enjoy life. I did not save all your posts as I did when Erfinder was here, but from memory and practice I can move forward. At least you are no longer in the firing line, so enjoy your freedom and think twice before you decide to help others with your own discoveries. You have to have a thick skin and be prepared to tell some peolpe to bugger off.

@all

Here are some things to consider.

1) Take one of the two coils. Put your meter on DC onto the secondary. Put 12 volts on the primary. If your secondary is well isolated you will have zero volts, if not, you will be able to see the leakage level. This also proves the coil is not a standard transformer. Try the other coil to make sure. While you're at it switch to the AC reading to see if you are capturing any RF in the room. Mine was reading arond .003 mV. I turned off all the lights, tv, etc., in the room and it stayed at .003 mV. So now you KNOW, outside artificial forces have nothing to do with this device. OK case solved.

This test now shows me my coils are well isolated but their lack of real production is a function of the CORE mass and material, my secondary is 23 awg so I should go up to 29-30 awg like COOK likes. My primary at 14 awg is OK so at least I know this much. Now I am wondering if the secondary can be wound two or threes layers or if I can wind a third seperate layer for frequencies. I'll think about that one.

2) Take a compass and put it between the coils. Connect the primaries B to C, and pulse your DC onto A and D. The compass should turn when you are manually pulsing at the right timing. This shows your Primaries are functional and they are providing a magnetic field that does not influence the secondary (shown by item 1) but it will influence the CORE.

3) In my Cook coil, I am using approx. 90 feet of secondary and about 3 feet of primary. If I just consider the secondaries, that's 180 feet wire length and at the speed of electricity being 185,000 miles per second, that equals the current turning 5,426,666.66 times per second in the coil. The square root being 5706. This all has to do with the harmonics of the device which I have not yet figured out. Btenzer, maybe your math friend can shed some light on this.

My primaries are 0.2 ohm (0.3 but settles down to 0.2) each with 40 turns with about 3 feet of 14 awg single strand wire. My secondaries are 1 ohm each with 90 feet of 23 awg wire single strand insolated wire.

The ohmage 5 to 1 ratio is kind of funny when you see Brnbrades Trial #4 without and battery or sound. His caps were 330uf-200V on one side and 62uf-400V on the other side. 330 / 5 = 66 pretty close match. Is this a coincidence. I don't think so. Some of the EE guys will know more about this I am sure.

4) Brnbrade has shown us something extremely important. How to start a dead coil/capacitor loop. Just pulse it with one DC pulse from outside, as if you were starting the heart of a heart attack patient. Doctor! Doctor! My Cook coil is dying. Quick, Pulse on 12, Clear. Bang. Now I am looking for things to start. Make a cap loop and start her up, see were it goes.

5) Anyone can do some tests by using two transformers. I used one transformer 110VAC-117 and the other 110VAC-70VAC and connected them up like the standard Cook coil hook-up AS-CP, BS-DP, CS-AP and DS-BP method. I put three capacitors on one side (after testing lots of configurations), and my meter on the other side. Started the caps with 32 VDC and the voltage went down, then started going up to 8.51 vdc, (don,t aks em about amperage, etc.) no AC. I will try this with AC start-up. I will also try to find two step-up DC transformers and do the same test. Should be interesting indeed. This exercise alone has helped me understand the capacitor relationships, high uf, low voltage versus low uf high voltage. The only thing left is to figure out the relatoinship between the caps and the harmonics of the circuit.
 
6) In one of Brnbrades' last posts he showed Teslas' patent 381,970 stating that there is a way to loop two ends of the device with the proper capacitors started up. He also indicated that the Cook coils are a PRIMITIVE device and that's probably why Cook was planning his patent for very large coils with 3", 4" and up to 12" iron cores up to 12 feet long. Imagine. So our punny Cook coils are really a joke, but what Brnbrade managed to pull out of his unit is very impressive. Practise makes perfect. So we practice and learn.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: weri812 on July 09, 2007, 01:21:12 AM
@ iancaiv

can you get it in english

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE4318270&F=0


wer
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: lancaIV on July 09, 2007, 01:56:14 AM
Hello wer,
enter "it",go to "Description" and then -on the right side "Translate ..."
 Hope, this will help !
What a luck,for me (less work !)

S
 dL

p.s.: but he,Adolf Zielinski,invented some more-"e-pump"-related
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: weri812 on July 09, 2007, 03:11:18 AM
@ iancaIV

thanks that worked

wer
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 10, 2007, 02:26:34 AM
@ Jacob

Sinto muito. Nada a declarar para voc?. Venha ver meu despositivo trabalhando.
? facil levantar um nome e apontar um dedo. Eu iria postar meu diagrama como prometido em duas ou tres semanas, mais n?o sabem esperar.
Copiar ideias ? f?cil. E fazer funcionar? Eu consegui...
? engra?ado. Todos que est?o tendo sucesso est?o sendo devorados vivos por alguns. Alguns que s? teorizam. bal bla bla
SM foi grandioso e astuto, mas n?o vejo sua tecnologia disponivel para n?s.

Brnbade,

You maintain that you do have something real. Well, I am ready to trust you on this. But you need to substantiate your claim. Either your lighted halogen bulb picture is genuine, in which case, please tell us more about it. Or your picture is not genuine, and you need to say so. 

So here is the question plain and simple: The bulb picture that you've posted implies that you are getting a very high COP (10 or more) from your setup. Is this real or not?

It is obvious from your latest posts that you do understand english, and that you can write whole paragraphs in Portugese. So there is no communication barrier.

It's ok if you don't want to tell everyone about "the special ingredient" that makes you coil behave much differently than any other. I'll do it. But please clarify the situation. Tell us more about more about what you are observing when the bulb lights up. If you say nothing, it's only natural to assume that you are a fraud. Even your email is inacurate (unless you've corrected this problem, have you?). You must admit that it doesn't look too good...

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 10, 2007, 03:21:06 AM
Can please all people, who have rebuild this thing please connect a load
resistor of about 100 Ohm to 1 KOhm and let us know the voltage at it ?

If you only use a digital Voltmeter or a scope with their high impedance input,
one can not know, if there is only voltage at the output or also current ?

Please let us know, the load resistor value and the voltage at it.
Good would be also a scope shot and note the deflection time in milliseconds/div
and the input voltage setting of the scope in volts/div.
Many thanks.

P.S: @Wattsup,
when your 2 transformer setup went again to over 8 Volts,
what happens, when you connect a 100 Ohm or 1 KOhm
resistor there ?
Is the voltage going down very fast ?
Is it AC or DC voltage ?

Can you get 2 transformers where you can post the full specs from
them and which could be bought at an available source like eBay or Radioshak
or something like this, so we can repeat this experiment ?
Pleaselet us know the exact types you will use then.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: otto on July 10, 2007, 02:24:46 PM
Hello all,

sorry to jump into this discussion like an ......   I have just 1 question:

Whats the distance between the 2 iron cores with the windings????

I didnt see that mentioned.

Otto
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 10, 2007, 04:38:46 PM
Hello all,

sorry to jump into this discussion like an ......   I have just 1 question:

Whats the distance between the 2 iron cores with the windings????

I didnt see that mentioned.

Otto

Hello Otto,

I can be wrong, but I don't think it's been mentionned. Actually, Brnbade setup is very rough and he said very little about it. As you can see from the posted pictures, components are held by chewing gum, playdough or something similar. And you can tell that these coils were winded quickly without too much consideration for details. He won't be able to fine tune his design with this level of workmanship.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 10, 2007, 06:15:42 PM
Hello all,

sorry to jump into this discussion like an ......   I have just 1 question:

Whats the distance between the 2 iron cores with the windings????

I didnt see that mentioned.

Otto

Hello Otto,

I can be wrong, but I don't think it's been mentionned. Actually, Brnbade setup is very rough and he said very little about it. As you can see from the posted pictures, components are held by chewing gum, playdough or something similar. And you can tell that these coils were winded quickly without too much consideration for details. He won't be able to fine tune his design with this level of workmanship.

Jacob

WOW, Jacob.

Give the kid a break!

All due respect to Steven Mark, but many of the devices in his videos aren't exactly works of art either...and they seem to work just fine.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 10, 2007, 08:45:10 PM
Hello all,

sorry to jump into this discussion like an ......   I have just 1 question:

Whats the distance between the 2 iron cores with the windings????

I didnt see that mentioned.

Otto

Hello Otto,

I can be wrong, but I don't think it's been mentionned. Actually, Brnbade setup is very rough and he said very little about it. As you can see from the posted pictures, components are held by chewing gum, playdough or something similar. And you can tell that these coils were winded quickly without too much consideration for details. He won't be able to fine tune his design with this level of workmanship.

Jacob

WOW, Jacob.

Give the kid a break!

All due respect to Steven Mark, but many of the devices in his videos aren't exactly works of art either...and they seem to work just fine.

Darren

Brnbade has gone silent Darren. In his absence, all we can do is speculate. And all I am saying is that if he is trying to do what I think he is, then the built-in level of precision is insufficient to produce the desired results.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Thaelin on July 10, 2007, 09:05:48 PM
Silent?  I see posts from him all over the place here at OU. Just not here.

sugra
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 11, 2007, 12:08:26 AM
@Stefan

I have made more experiments with my device using frequencies from my PC amplifier that will be shown in follow:

1- I measured again the amplifier output and discovered that the output voltage is the same one of the input. That is, if I get 5 volts on device output is because the PC amplifier is placing 5 volts in device input. When I measured in the first time, I think that plug don't very well connected and I showed a erroneous reading. Sorry.

2- Any way, I placed a 82 ohm resistor in paralel to device output and the voltage fell to zero.

3- I used a portable MP3 player, and I got zero in headfones output when playing a music or fixed frequencies. I connected the MP3 and in device and again I got zero volts in device output. I think that this because the plug that I used is with problems. I will try later with another plug.

4- I try replicate the wattsup experiment, loading a 2200 uF 35V capacitor with 3 volts per 15 seconds. I removed the capacitor from power supply and connected in the device and the charge continues lowering, even so very slowly. I believe that this if must to the proper capacitor nature and that briefing it will arrive to zero volts.

I think that in the first experiments (item 1) the voltage that I am reading is the same one due to some type of amplifier current scape.

If the Brnbrade experiments had really worked, then I am making something wrong. Or my device was mounted in different way of Brnbrade or I am don't make device boot. (Or both). I also try connect two batteries (3v) to a capacitor as showing in first in Brnbrade and conect to device, but I get only the same 3v.

I will study more regarding the Cooks device and I will mount another one using another materials if is worthwhile.

@Otto

I have made several experiments using differents distances between the coils and din't have any results changes.

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 01:15:20 AM
@Doug56
okay, if you did not at least get 0.5 to 1 Volts when you connected
the 82 Ohm resistor, your output was not due to any power generation
inside your cook coils,just maybe some mikrowatts only grid induction..

But Doug, maybe you can try again with a 1 KOhm load resistor ?


So I would like to hear now from user Wattsup,
what happens, if he will connect a 100 Ohm resistor to his output ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 11, 2007, 03:12:15 AM
Silent?  I see posts from him all over the place here at OU. Just not here.

sugra


I went to see his last post, and it belongs to this thread, as shown below:

brnbade wrote:

Quote
Yes, the problems appear because I did not wait the certain time. I am going to post in two or three weeks the diagram. More the situation is hostile for the lack of patience, communication and time.

Yes you have assessed the situation correctly.

But, it is important to say at the beginning that you will provide diagrams in two or three weeks. You must understand that people would like to build your device at the moment you tell them, not three weeks later.

So next time, I encourage you to state your intention with your first post. Be honest and say that you will not provide the diagrams until you are ready.


Sim voc? avaliou a situa??o corretamente.

Mas, ? importante dizer no come?o que voc? fornecer? diagramas em duas ou tr?s semanas. Voc? deve compreender que os povos gostariam de construir seu dispositivo neste momento que voc? lhes diz, n?o tr?s semanas mais tarde.

Vez assim seguinte, eu incentivo-o indicar sua inten??o com seu primeiro borne. Seja honesto e diga que voc? n?o fornecer? os diagramas at? que voc? esteja preparado.

Darren

N?o postarei mais. Diante desta situa??o me calarei.
Melhor ser bom observador.
Estarei aqui montando o resto do quebra cabe?a, mas n?o postarei mais nada.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 11, 2007, 03:35:16 AM
Hello all,

sorry to jump into this discussion like an ......   I have just 1 question:

Whats the distance between the 2 iron cores with the windings????

I didnt see that mentioned.

Otto

Hello Otto,

I can be wrong, but I don't think it's been mentionned. Actually, Brnbade setup is very rough and he said very little about it. As you can see from the posted pictures, components are held by chewing gum, playdough or something similar. And you can tell that these coils were winded quickly without too much consideration for details. He won't be able to fine tune his design with this level of workmanship.

Jacob

@Jacob

very rough and he said very little about it.

Eu postei todas as informa??es necess?rias aqui.
N?o importa se foi colado com massa de modelar (Chiclete).
O importante ? que o meu dispositivo funcionou.
N?o tem nenhum "ingrediente secreto". Eu s? furei a bolha. O aether ? maravilhoso.

Regards

Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 11, 2007, 06:29:29 AM
@ Jacob

Sinto muito. Nada a declarar para voc?. Venha ver meu despositivo trabalhando.
? facil levantar um nome e apontar um dedo. Eu iria postar meu diagrama como prometido em duas ou tres semanas, mais n?o sabem esperar.
Copiar ideias ? f?cil. E fazer funcionar? Eu consegui...
? engra?ado. Todos que est?o tendo sucesso est?o sendo devorados vivos por alguns. Alguns que s? teorizam. bal bla bla
SM foi grandioso e astuto, mas n?o vejo sua tecnologia disponivel para n?s.

Brnbade,

You maintain that you do have something real. Well, I am ready to trust you on this. But you need to substantiate your claim. Either your lighted halogen bulb picture is genuine, in which case, please tell us more about it. Or your picture is not genuine, and you need to say so. 

So here is the question plain and simple: The bulb picture that you've posted implies that you are getting a very high COP (10 or more) from your setup. Is this real or not?

It is obvious from your latest posts that you do understand english, and that you can write whole paragraphs in Portugese. So there is no communication barrier.

It's ok if you don't want to tell everyone about "the special ingredient" that makes you coil behave much differently than any other. I'll do it. But please clarify the situation. Tell us more about more about what you are observing when the bulb lights up. If you say nothing, it's only natural to assume that you are a fraud. Even your email is inacurate (unless you've corrected this problem, have you?). You must admit that it doesn't look too good...

Jacob

Personally, I think we need to either ignore him if we(me, you, others) think it is fake, and leave him alone, or use a little more tact. Tenacity is fine. But he's not pissing in anyone's cheerios here here. Up until a little while ago, the questions asked of him were tough questions but they were questions asked without malice, or rudeness. I think we should have kept it that way, we're all adults.

If he did have something, it's lost to us now. That's for sure. If not, then no big deal
Oh well. There are other fish to fry. 

Rich

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 11, 2007, 06:58:04 AM
Jacob & some:

I never understood your attitude towards Brnbrade.

When we were youngsters, our parents or elders would often tempt us with words like: "If you're a good boy, I'll give you a candy!".. Now as adults, you say to the young man: "If you don't tell us how you did this or that, we'll ostracize you!"

He has told you he'll release his information in good time. How many times do you need him to say it? For crying out loud! Nobody in this forum owes anybody an explanation. He is perfectly entitled to do what he wishes or not. I don't think he's lying. Maybe he really has discovered something no one has yet to be able to reproduce?

If you're a good boy and be patient and stop bad-mouthing people, then maybe he'll give you a candy!

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: otto on July 11, 2007, 07:23:26 AM
Hello all,

this question was not for brnbade but for the builders.

Again Im pocking on the distance between the 2 iron cores or the 2 "systems" to say it in this way.
There must be an interaction.

In the TPU the people dont see an interaction in the height of the TPU. Fine for me. Then I will ask you all, why is a 6" TPU 1 3/4" in height???? Why not 2" or 1 1/2"????

Its because the interaction!!!!

In our case here there is also an interaction. With properly builded coils, the right position of the coils.....you will see the interaction.

You can think about this and about me what you want but be sure, Im right.

Otto
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
Jacob & some:

I never understood your attitude towards Brnbrade.

When we were youngsters, our parents or elders would often tempt us with words like: "If you're a good boy, I'll give you a candy!".. Now as adults, you say to the young man: "If you don't tell us how you did this or that, we'll ostracize you!"

He has told you he'll release his information in good time. How many times do you need him to say it? For crying out loud! Nobody in this forum owes anybody an explanation. He is perfectly entitled to do what he wishes or not. I don't think he's lying. Maybe he really has discovered something no one has yet to be able to reproduce?

If you're a good boy and be patient and stop bad-mouthing people, then maybe he'll give you a candy!

Regards
chrisC

Hi Chris,
yes, I guess you are right.
Brnbrade just said, he wants first to make a few more tests untilhe will
publish more.

So let us just have more patience and care in the meantime about our own
experiments or about a few other things.
If Brnbrade will not come back, then maybe in the meantime somebody else will win the
OverUnity Prize ???
;)

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 11, 2007, 04:21:08 PM

So here is the question plain and simple: The bulb picture that you've posted implies that you are getting a very high COP (10 or more) from your setup. Is this real or not?



Eu postei todas as informa??es necess?rias aqui.
N?o importa se foi colado com massa de modelar (Chiclete).
O importante ? que o meu dispositivo funcionou.
N?o tem nenhum "ingrediente secreto". Eu s? furei a bolha. O aether ? maravilhoso.


Why do you ignore this question Brnbade? It's an easy one. I am not asking for a schematic. You've posted a picture, and didn't a word about it.

Jacob & some:

I never understood your attitude towards Brnbrade.

When we were youngsters, our parents or elders would often tempt us with words like: "If you're a good boy, I'll give you a candy!".. Now as adults, you say to the young man: "If you don't tell us how you did this or that, we'll ostracize you!"

He has told you he'll release his information in good time. How many times do you need him to say it? For crying out loud! Nobody in this forum owes anybody an explanation. He is perfectly entitled to do what he wishes or not. I don't think he's lying. Maybe he really has discovered something no one has yet to be able to reproduce?

If you're a good boy and be patient and stop bad-mouthing people, then maybe he'll give you a candy!

Regards
chrisC

ChisC,

Hey, I am just asking Brnbade to please tell us if this picture is genuine or not. And I am saying that if he doesn't, his credibility will suffer. What's wrong with this? Isn't true?  By itself, this picture is quite a claim. Yet, have you read a single comment from Brnbade about it? None! So just a little comment about it would be nice, don't you think?

If he is not ready to disclose any information about it for now, fine, I respect that. In fact, I am not even asking him for such information. I just want to hear him say: "yes, I did light that bulb with only these two cells, no tricks involved", or "I thought this would be a great picture to post but be carefull, it doesn't tell the whole story".

Now if I am being unreasonnable, please tell me. Maybe I am being subjective here without realizing it.


Personally, I think we need to either ignore him if we(me, you, others) think it is fake, and leave him alone, or use a little more tact. Tenacity is fine. But he's not pissing in anyone's cheerios here here. Up until a little while ago, the questions asked of him were tough questions but they were questions asked without malice, or rudeness. I think we should have kept it that way, we're all adults.


Rich,

I believe in this kind of setup. The TPU is comprised of several subsystems. This is one of them. But the picture posted by Brnbade just seem above and beyond what can reasonably be expected from such a circuit. I was just hoping Brnbade would clarify that point.

But if he continues to ignore the question, let alone answer it, then I will do as you say: consider he is a fake and ignore him. Before reaching this conclusion however, I wanted to give him more room.

By the way, maybe I over reacted, but ignoring a question is also being rude.

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gn0stik on July 11, 2007, 07:56:52 PM
but prodding someone relentlessly with less than amiable comments, that have been sharpened to a point, in order to draw blood are not a way to get someone to communicate with you.

I mean, if it does what he claims, what is the point of critisizing his workmanship? That's just pointless and caustic. And using ottos post as a springboard to do it.. Seems opportunistic, like you just needed an excuse to be mean to him.

Lets Just give him room. He either will, or will not release more information. I would understand if he chose not to however. And the thing is, if he doesn't we can't be sure it's because he never had anything. He could withhold now just on principal.

Sometimes we take liberties on forums that we would not in real life with people. Usually when we do so, we're stepping out of bounds in one way or another.

Rich
 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 11, 2007, 07:59:41 PM
Jacob,  I don't think brnbrade understands what COP is.   I think the language problem is more severe then we imagine.   He could be using a translator service, like Babelfish, which I am using as well, but the translation is not alway understandable.    Also, have you seen the picture with the lightbulb, that I processed and expanded?   In the picture you can see the copper wire of the red wire of the 3 V battery pack.   It's not connected.   So I think he used his stereo for that, or a battery.  He was just experimenting, but we thought he was on to something extraordinary, or rather Bruce thought he was on to something extraordinary and started this thread. 

Otto,   spacing between the rods should matter, I think your absolutely correct.   With the right spacing it could tap the right frequency, or standing wave of a given WAVELENGTH.

I translated the brnbrade text for those of you who are lazy  :)

I posted all the necessary information here. It does not matter if it was glued with modeling clay or buble gum. The important point is that my device functioned.  It does not have any “private ingredient”. I only pierced the bubble. Aether is wonderful.  

Now, here's my comment.  He said it "functions"  and it does function, but what we understand by that can be different.   A battery hooked to a lightbulb functions.  A coil energized by current develops a magnetic field and attracts iron nails, so we can say it "functions".    Right now, we have not seen enough evidence to say that we have EXCESS ENERGY.   Sure we see 250 Volts on a meter, but that is just a meter sitting there, not doing any WORK.  Don't missunderstand me, I think it's currious that he gets the 250 Volts and that's why I built the coils for myself.  But I am now convinced its energy from the grid and when the output is loaded down with a bulb there is no power to that voltage.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: z_p_e on July 11, 2007, 08:48:21 PM
EM,

Does he know the specifics of what COP, means....

maybe, maybe not.

But I am sure he meant something like "I am getting more out than in". That is all that matters.

Whether it is true by statement or measurement or not, is another story. And if he posts again, maybe we'll get "the rest of the story".

In the mean time, as I mentioned a few posts back already (not all understood it I guess), Let him be!

If he wants to post again, he will. If not, he won't. Simple as that.

But certainly, pestering him further is not going to bring him back.

Darren
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 11, 2007, 09:25:28 PM
let's hope we are not pestering him, we just keep going with the thread.  If he wants to jump in, great, if not we'll do all the talking  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 11, 2007, 09:26:01 PM
@Jacob

In that particular AC Trial, I don't think he was using sound to use the frequencies. I think he was using the sound output as a simple source for AC current, regardless of the frequency otherwise he would have said he is using a frequency generator at so and so frequency. Since he probably does not have a variable AC power source, sound output is the next best thing. On all his trials, he is using different configurations to obtain different results. This is to SHOW US that his working coils are polyvalent. Even if you have OU, I think for him it is not something to jump up in the air about, especially if he may know there is much more where that came from, and he doesn't want to get too tied up in the Cook coil design. Obviously we do not have all the answers. Jason, instead of insisting and insisting, try and look and see what you can realize and learn from what is already here and help us.

@all

My home internet line has been down since two days and should be up this afternoon as per my SP's promise (and me crossing my fingers). I can only get here via my office connection and I don't have all my software in the office computer as at home. Last night I made plans for my next build and should be posting them here tonight if the line is back up.

Brnbrade sent me a PM which I am putting here and hope that his PM was not destined for my eyes only. I doubt it. If it was, then I am sorry to Brnbrade for mentioning this.

QUOTE
(The english was translated on an online translator)

Hi wattsup
 What I am making here is mini Vortex inside of the cook coils.
It can seem joke for some, but it is accurately what all are looking for
 here.
The way that voc?s is making is: to change magnetic field in transforming mobius.
The aluminum in my device has an important function. It is not only insulator of the dipositivo.
Science of the Vortex says, strong static element, annuls magnetic field and creates Vortex to driver.
Regards

****************

Hi wattsup
O que estou fazendo aqui ? mini vortex dentro dos rolos de cozinheiro.
Pode parecer piada para alguns, mas ? exatamente o que todos aqui est?o
procurando.
O modo que voc?s est?o fazendo ?: trocar campo magn?tico em transformadores mobius.
O al?minio no meu dispositivo tem uma fun??o importante. N?o ? somente isolador do dipositivo.
Ci?ncia do vortex diz, elemento est?tico forte, anula campo magn?tico e cria vortex driver.
Regards
UNQUOTE

Cook confirmed his device can be made in many ways, etc. But as with everything, you have to build and try and rebuild and try again to perfect the craft. Cook never indicated aluminium foil or tubes. I suspect this is coming from Brnbrade himself and he is using the shifting between the coils as a vortex. So this is more of a Brnbrade Coil. I will have to do some research into Vortex fields.

@Otto

You can see in the photos of Trial #1 to #5 that his coils are placed side by side. I have tried this and many other distances and do not see any difference. In fact when there is current flow there is no magnetic field apparent with my compass. When you simply pulse the Primary (big coil) you can see the compass rotating, but as my present Cook coil may possibly have some build hindrances, this cannot be known until I make another one and compare these results.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 11, 2007, 09:36:56 PM
@wattsup

Thanks for the posting. I believe Brnbrade has discovered some anomaly which he is trying to further experiment. No one in their right mind will spent this amount of time trying to hold up a deceit. Like Otto suggested, it may be structure orientation & spacing issue specific to these coils. I'll give him room and space and afford him some courtesy.

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 11, 2007, 10:09:42 PM
@ EMdevices

Quote
Brnbrade says:

Eu postei todas as informa??es necess?rias aqui.
N?o importa se foi colado com massa de modelar (Chiclete).
O importante ? que o meu dispositivo funcionou.
N?o tem nenhum "ingrediente secreto". Eu s? furei a bolha. O aether ? maravilhoso.

Translation:

I posted all the necessary informations here. It does not matter if it glued with modelling mass or bubble gum. The important point is that my device WORKS. It does not have any "secret ingredient". I only pierced the bubble. Aether is wonderful.

Note: "funcionou" or "funcionar" in portuguese means "works" or "perform".

@ wattsup

Quote
Hi wattsup
O que estou fazendo aqui ? mini vortex dentro dos rolos de cozinheiro.
Pode parecer piada para alguns, mas ? exatamente o que todos aqui est?o
procurando.
O modo que voc?s est?o fazendo ?: trocar campo magn?tico em transformadores mobius.
O al?minio no meu dispositivo tem uma fun??o importante. N?o ? somente isolador do dipositivo.
Ci?ncia do vortex diz, elemento est?tico forte, anula campo magn?tico e cria vortex driver.Regards


Hi wattsup
What I have making here is mini Vortex inside of the cook coils.
It can seem joke for some, but it is exactly what all are looking for.
The way that you is making is: to change magnetic field in mobius transformer.
The aluminum in my device has an important function. It is not only devices insulator.
Vortex Science says, strong static element, cancel magnetic field and creates driver Vortex.
Regards

@All

I personally believe in Brnbrade. I think that his device works, but we dont to obligate Brnbrade disclose WHAT he discover. He have this rights. Think guys, think!

Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 11, 2007, 11:34:52 PM
thanks Doug,  that would be a better translation.   So it "works"  that's great.  Let's hope that means  Over Unity   :)

I want to believe !!!    Ha  Ha  Ha  :)

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 12, 2007, 12:15:24 AM
thanks Doug,  that would be a better translation.   So it "works"  that's great.  Let's hope that means  Over Unity

Hmmmm.... Maybe!

Regards

Doug
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 12, 2007, 12:44:39 AM
@wattsup

Thanks for the posting. I believe Brnbrade has discovered some anomaly which he is trying to further experiment. No one in their right mind will spent this amount of time trying to hold up a deceit. Like Otto suggested, it may be structure orientation & spacing issue specific to these coils. I'll give him room and space and afford him some courtesy.

Regards
chrisC

@ Rich, EM, Darren, Wattsup

Thank you for your constructive comments. I had a change of heart.

@ ChrisC

You're right. Brnbrade has discovered some anomaly. And specific structure & spacing issues are important. Which is why I mentionned earlier that building such a device requires a lot of precision (which, by the way, I'm sure Brnbade is capable of).

And yes, let's give him room and space and afford him some courtesy. He will join in whenever he feels like it.

In the meantime however, experimentation must go on. So let's look at the facts...

The fact is that aluminium is an electrical conductor, but it is not magnetic. That is to say that it allow the concentration of electrical charges inside a magnetic field without interfering with its path like a magnetic substance would.

Now if we look at Brnbade coil's layer structure:

Core -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> fine wire coil -> insulating -> aluminium -> insulating -> Thick wire -> insulating  

It's clear that we have 2, back to back, concentric capacitors here. And since these capacitors are incorporated into the coils, this is a great tank circuit to experiment with, because its capacitance and inductance elements are not only coupled externally, but also internally. Which mean that we have electric and magnetic fields in direct interaction  within the context of a resonant circuit.

But to take full advantage of the aluminium within the device, it must be connected electrically to the coils. It must be part of the circuit.

Already, initial tests have shown, without connecting the aluminium, that there is a steady voltage increase that builds up across the interconnected coils with only a magnet to start the process. Some have speculated that this is being picked up from the grid. Maybe... Then maybe not... The fact is that there is "something", and it comes from somewhere. Also, let's not forget that there was not much grid to tune into back in 1871, yet... So it would be best to be sure about where this "something" comes from.

But wherever the power comes from, the fact is this tank circuit oscillates for free. So if we tune this device to a frequency relevant to our purpose, we can achieve such purpose without the use of an external energy source.

So, even without the aluminium being connected, this circuit is already worthy of all our attention. Now, what happens when the aluminium is connected?

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on July 12, 2007, 03:52:08 AM
you know what I was thinking.

we can also experiment with the other interconnections.

Basicaly, if we imagine the flux from one rod entering the other , and represent the polarity of each coil with "A"  , when it aides the flux, or with "B" when it does not.  we can have a number of possibilities for interconnecting.

A1 to B2,  B1 to A2
A1 to A2,  B1 to B2,
etc..

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 12, 2007, 04:10:50 AM
hey..its been a few days since i have experimented further.

my build did  charge up to .93 volts with just a stack of ceramic magnets being placed
around it at different places. It was strange in that some places i would put it it would start to drain
the volts and others would boost them. The distance between the coils did effect the speed of the charging.
it took 2 hours to build up .93 and it didn't budge from there. This was with an led connected.
it did not light though. I ended up shorting it out to see what would happen volts went down to zero and
started building again this time though no magnet was needed to start...guess it was a left over charge in the cap.
i do think the amperage was ultra low...as it didn't register on my meter.

I also tried driving the coils with a "line level " audio signal. I just used the positive from stereo channels into each coil.
i tried a bunch of different sources. It did not create any dc volts but i do think it made 100 volts ac.
i say think because i wasn't really sure how to read my meter  :-[  had it set to 200v and it read 10.3
the volts jumped up high when i would pan the signal off center which was interesting. (sending more signal into one coil then the other)

anyway just an update...
i have caught the dreaded over-unity bug.
(haha i just ordered magnets to try my hand at the orbo using halbach arrays)

i hope to move up to TPU construction...

if anyone likes good electronica check out my site
got a bunch of mixes up there all current stuff.
http://www.nutekklabs.com



Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 12, 2007, 05:00:55 AM
@nutekk
instead of a voltmeter you could try to put a milliampmeter
across the output and see, if you will get any amperage at all ?

Did you use digital meters ?
With digital meters and scopes you must be sure,
that not leaking currents from the input pins charge up
your capacitors..
This happened to me several times, when I throught I have a strange
charging effect it was indeed my grounded scope, which charged up
some caps in some other experiments...

So please test this out.

0.93 Volts could be exactly the voltage from your battery in
your meter...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 12, 2007, 05:21:38 AM
yes it is a cheapo digital meter..however it does have a 12 volt battery in it.
so strange it stopped @ .93 volts.
it also has a milliamp setting on it...it wouldn't register @ any setting.

i did find it strange with the line level audio input creating  some AC.
or is that "normal" ?

you may be right about the leakage.
tomorrow i will set it back up and try again..
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 12, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
Do you mean 1.2 Volt battery or 12 Volt battery ?
12 Volt is a bit  high for a cheap digital meter...hmm..what type is it ?

Do you have caps in the circuit ? if yes, then it is probably the leakage
current of your meter, which charged them up.


As you don?t have any milliamps output from the DC level
there is no real power in there,only from the leakage of your
meter which comes from its battery.



The AC level with your amp is no wonder, cause this Cook coil setup can work
as a transformer. so you just transformed the AC up in voltage level.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 12, 2007, 05:35:34 AM
yes its a 12 volt battery.
its a radio shack meter

yes i had a cap in the circuit.
yes no real power...

but strange when wired the normal mobius way no creeping voltage.
only when wired the way wattsup described did i see the increase.

i actually have it hooked up right now,
getting zip out of it currently
.001


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 12, 2007, 05:39:52 AM
One thing he did that I appreciate is bring Aluminum into the picture. I had forgotten the use I put it to when I was younger. Fascinating stuff. You can use it to force a phase shift, redirect a magnetic field, compress a field upon itself and act as a magnetic field mirror (albeit the reflection is out of phase and tends to reverse direction).

His reported construction led me to believe unusual processes were going on. Things like the 'Hall Effect'. I could go on but I still plan to investigate. His mention of 'vortex' is surprising but now that I think about it all the requirements are there, just in a different form than I planned.

Who knows? One way or the other I hope this forum turns into a process improvement forum instead of process unknown forum.

BTW.
Capacitors are also interesting. The one thing that throws folk is that if you suddenly discharge one it will tend to recover some of the charge. Kind of the current(Amps) version of voltage BEMF. It never amounts to much and is very slow.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 12, 2007, 06:28:06 AM
@BEP

I have put my meter on alot of my caps and none have such a increase. Geez, they're all dead. That's why this is so interesting. I am doing mostly tests with no feed as I am totally taken by Trials 4 and 5.

@nutekk

What caps are you trying. Also do you have a picture or description of your build?

@all

Thanks for your inputs. Any more on vortexes and aluminum will be appreciated?

Here is my build plan (jpg and pdf) for my next trials. Hope this will save me alot of build explanations. I will wait 2-3 days before I continue the build just in case Brnbrade looks it over and provides some constructive ideas for some last minute changes. Another plug. (Brnbrade, se voc? vir qualquer falha principal neste projeto, recomenda por favor.)

I have the rods cut and taped so step A and B already done. I am sure he has spent alot of time on these coils and has worked out alot of the build details.

In the Build I am calling the inner thin wire the Primary, and the outer thicker wire the Secondary. I'll follow what was in Cooks' patent and have added the aluminium. After all, who says the thicker outer wire is always the Primary? OK, don't answer that..... but it's amazing how the passage of time has completely reverted from the original mentality of that time.

For the Primary I have a 500 foot roll of 29 awg wire. I figure that once I have made both coils, I'll measure what is left and divide by two to know the wire lengths per coil.

Gregi mentioned more layers per coil, but I am not sure this was ever confirmed by Brnbrade. Can't remember, but I don't see the advantage as this may lead to cancelling fields, etc.

Also, if I am correct and if you are using sound inputs, try the negative and one positive. I put my PC audio system and my mixer on full with a 1000 hz tone on left and right channel.

Measured the AC as follows:
Right Channel and Left Channel = 1.24 vac
Right Channel and Negative = 12.52 vac
Left Channel and Negative = 12.24 vac
Right Channel with Left Channel and Negative = 12.21 vac

So all you need is the Negative and a channel to ensure your applied current is truely alternating to start with. Don't put the two channels together because you will have cancelling currents in there.

Anyways, I hope this build will be leaps and bounds above my first build.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: nutekk on July 12, 2007, 06:45:48 AM
wow that new one looks like it will be killer!
i have more details and a pic of mine on page 41 of this thread.
followed the basic build instructions as noted on page 1.

i may try another..have to see what kind of iron i can get my hands on tomorrow.
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 12, 2007, 07:18:15 PM
@wattsup

you didn't mention whether the aluminum layer is a one-turn short-circuit winding, or not.

Your images are super.

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 12, 2007, 07:56:13 PM
@Earl

Thanks for your comments.

My build will use one sheet of 12" x 24" Alu foil for the interior. The coil will simply be rolled onto the sheet to make as many layers as will give. The outer Alu foil will be a 12" x 36" sheet. I am using a longer sheet on the outside as it will have more circumferance to cover and I want the thickness to be about the same on both the inner and outer aluminum. I will not isolate the foil, so it will make one mass of alu instead of a rolled non-contacted sheet. As far as I know Brnbrade never mentioned insulating the foil on one side so I am doing it his way.

If you have any reasons that this should be done in another way, please advise since I am still waiting another day or so to finish the build.
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 12, 2007, 08:41:48 PM
Hi,

the sad truth is that it should be done both ways.
Sigh !  Isn't research into the unknown a bear?

Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 12, 2007, 09:21:14 PM
@Earl

If this new build winds up being a dud, don't worry, I'll take it apart and redo another one. But do you have any basis for isolating the alu foil turns? Everything goes at this stage and there are many variables to consider but you have to start somewhere.


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 12, 2007, 11:22:48 PM
Has anyone tried windings different directions from one coil to another?

I've run into a slurr of terminology before where something meant one thing in the past and completely different now.

Example: Like handedness of coils on one form would be the same direction - likehandedness between two coil forms would mean they work together as in rotating opposite directions for least friction when touching, parallel and geared together. So the second coil would be wound the opposite direction.

That isn't what it means today.

On the cap charging - my suggestion for a reason is not the only reason. Hopefully yours are charging for the right reason!


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 13, 2007, 12:12:24 AM
Thanks.

When you try the unshorted foil I suggest you alternate the position of the aluminum gaps by 180 degrees and don't allow them to short to each other. That works in oscillators anyway  :)

If the Aluminum is acting as I suspect, thickness will be a factor that must be determined. You should probably try different cap values to find best action. The Cook coils would have had a fair amount of capacitance but probably far less than the caps we have on our benches.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: hartiberlin on July 13, 2007, 12:31:41 AM
What also could be tried is:

to cut the alufoil in the center of the layer , so you have
a real capacitor for this alulayer ( 2 foils beneath each other don?t touching)

Then you can also connect each foil layer part to thecircuit.

This is to a recent posting posting by EMdevices (in the TPU ENd Game- Thank you thread)
as it shows, that the coil will induce positive and negative charges in the alufoil,
but this way they are seperated and there could flow no current in the alulayer,
if there us a cut in the center...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: otto on July 13, 2007, 09:49:06 AM
Hello all,

I feel sorry for you guys but Im here again.
You all know that Im working on the TPU but .....

You are replicating Brnbrades work or the Mcfarland patent no. 119 825???

Im asking this because in this patent was sayd the following:

1. iron core, solid bar or a bundle of iron wire no 16 - better
2. lenght 2,3,6....feet
3. diameter 2, 3 or more inches
4. primary windings: wire no.30 or less
5. secondary windings: wire no.16 or bigger

Primary and secondary wound in same direction

Nuber of turns:

Primary 500 - 1000 feet or more
Secondary more or less than primary

The more wires and the better the isolation is, the better results.

Now my question: why are you all using Aluminium???? or a Al foil????

In the patent was mentioned only a ribbon spiral!!!!

Why dont you try a copper ribbon spiral??? and an Al ribbon spiral ????

Your lenght of your iron core is 33,5"???? Why???

Why dont you cut this lenght to 31,4" so you can meet my measures with my 6" TPU???

Ha, ha, now Im an ass. If you would have the same measures as my 6" TPU, I wouldnt need to work soooo much on my TPU setup. You would do for me a lot of work,ha,ha.

Yeeees, I know, this is NOT a TPU but I see a lot of similarities. Again, its NOT a TPU.

If Brnbrade is working so hard on his device as Im with my TPU than be sure he has changed a lot of times his setup. And he IS working veeery hard and fast.

Otto

Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 13, 2007, 12:12:51 PM
@Earl

If this new build winds up being a dud, don't worry, I'll take it apart and redo another one. But do you have any basis for isolating the alu foil turns? Everything goes at this stage and there are many variables to consider but you have to start somewhere.

Hi,

Standard, traditional engineering says an aluminum layer over a coil is a no-no.
This one-turn short-circuit will reflect back to the coil and cause extremely heavy loading.
It will drop the coil's impedance to a low value and ruin its Q factor.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Swiss Thestatika used perforated aluminum quite a lot.  So another possiblity is to use aluminum mosquito netting.  If the aluminum is beneficial by providing an electrostatic shield while at the same time permitting a magnetic field to pass, then both alu foil and alu mosquito net would have the same effect.  The alu mosquito netting would have much lower capacity to the winding in comparison to alu foil.

IMO, I would make the alu layers with a small longitudinal slit and have this layer available externally.  Even though this might be physcially difficult one could then during tests short the slit together and reopen it, all externally.  This might be easier to do with thin alu or brass sheet than alu foil, which tears easily.  Did you see my idea of using aluminized-paper beverage containers?  At least these would not tear and the insulated layers could be shorted together externally.

Another possibility is to build everything on concentric plastic tubes - or thick flexible plastic that can be made into custom-diameter tubes.  These could slide in and out of eachother, each layer of coil and alu being "slide-able".  There would be no permanent, fixed physical connection between layers.

Regards, Earl

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 14, 2007, 12:11:00 AM
@mramos

Brnbrade just gave the layers and nothing else specific.

I gave it the name Cook-Brnbrade Coil or CBC so those in the know don't have to repeat all the time. CBC sounds ok to me. But how does it work is the question.

By the way I got your PM and we'll discuss when I get my internet service working again.

@Earl

I saw your idea on the cartonized alu material but I don't know if the density of that aluminium is the same as Alu foil. But it will surley be a way to test in the next trials. Your idea of bringing out an Al conductor for exterior tests seems good and would not be difficult. I can just bring out an AL wire from inside the AL layer to outside the coil and test. OK.

@otto

What we are trying is a mix between Cook's patent and Brnbrade's build, but mostly following the limited info from Brnrbrade since I could not speak personally to Cook. LOL

I know Cook was talking about much larger units up to 12 feet long but I guess we'll start small.

My first CBC had gone up to 8.xx vdc and it was a pretty rudimentary set-up with wire core, not very thick and only three layers of Alu foil. I am suspecting that there was alot of leakage between the coils and this is why I am going to use more foil, solid 1/2" core, etc.

Also, regardless of the dimensions, if there is anything positive in this build and test, I am sure there will be something to take out of it for the ECD. By the way, did you see my post on page 72 #718 of the ECD thread. Maybe you missed it cause the posts advance so fast.

@all

It's a bugger still not having my internet connection up at home. They say it will be back on line by Saturday afternoon. So I am at my office computer working later.

Again here is what Brndbrade said about the Vortex. Please keep in mind and see any parallel you can find elsewhere.

QUOTE
Hi wattsup
What I am making here is mini Vortex inside of the cook coils.
It can seem joke for some, but it is accurately what all are looking for here.
The way that voc?s is making is: to change magnetic field in transforming mobius.
The aluminum in my device has an important function. It is not only insulator of the dipositivo. Science of the Vortex says, strong static element, annuls magnetic field and creates Vortex to driver.
Regards
UNQUOTE

From what I am seeing in the build, and from what Brnbrade said about his coil creating a Vortex, such a Vortex will create a concentrated energy level at the outlet of the Primary (thin inner wire coil) leading to the inlet of the Secondary (thick outer wire coil). The Secondary has to the be large enough to capture the energy from the Primary and send it back to the Primary. This loop is a closed system and will be very interesting to work with.

"Strong static element, annuls magnetic field and creates Vortex to driver." What does this really mean? The only thing I can think of is the strong static element is the Alu foil element AL which is static because it is non-changing when exposed to a magnetic field and it cancels the magnetic field that the the secondary is trying to build. Such a field collapse occurs usually when a energized coil is de-energized or discharged, but in this case instead of discharging or unloading the current from the coil, the AL is doing it while the current still flows. As if you are pulsing on/off on a coil without the pulse. WOW! This could be the answer to my limited EE. A non-pulsing pulser.

So if the Alu foil is not thick enough the collapses may not occur as often or as strongly as when the Al foil is much thicker. But then maybe you have to be carefull not to have too much Alu Foil to possibly inhibit the fields surrounding the electons themselves. Not enough or too much? See the potential variables involved for such a simple looking device.

Another main question is the electrical tape (ET), since this is a major component in the build being applied between ever other layer. Does ET cause a loss in magnetic fields between layers or is it as passive as one would hope it be to act as a neutral insulator? Or, does ET only want to call home. LOL No, seriously, I'm asking this because I have not found Al varnish anywhere - none. The paints for metal fences don't say what's inside their mixture so I am very hesitant to try them.

I'll continue my build on Sunday.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 14, 2007, 04:15:54 AM
@Wattsup

I found some spray shellac in the paint store. I used that rather than tape as it takes up less space and allows the layers to be closer. The idea being 'closer' = more capacitance.

The aluminum is in the patent. Coils can be single or ribbon and in one case it even mentions they don't have to be insulated wire???

Magnetic fields aren't shielded by aluminum but appear to create an opposing field ahead of the oncomming field from the copper coil. I haven't figured how they look when comming out the other side.

On the vortex idea he may mean..

the aluminum cylinder is acting as the static solenoid in most vortex generators.

Wild guess inner coil provides one direction of rotation

aluminum acts as static solenoid coil (should need a DC field through the al then)..

next coil provides rotation in reverse direction of inner coil

particles shoot in both ends and rotate around aluminum cylinder

as they do they create DC from one end to the other of the cylinder.

That would require connecting the opposite ends of the al cylinder to the coils at the coil ends (probably the coil on the other rod)(??)
 
If that is true then the system would need a DC kick of the right polarity and only output DC when self-running.
Even without external caps there is some small mf value between layers.
Sounds like a resonant Tesla tank to me.

I've been able to reproduce your self charging capacitor. The voltage never amounts to much but all you need is magnet>capacitor<magnet and a coil wrapped around all three and the coil in series with the cap with one end open.
Both the cap and the coil have one end open.

The frequency matches the LC resonance. The only way I can figure the cap charging is maybe because it is an Electrolytic. They like to charge in one direction a little better than the other.
I think it may be getting starting power from the ambient 60Hz.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 14, 2007, 04:32:03 PM
Back online - Hope it lasts!!!!!

@BEP

Thank you for the insight. I have been reading up on vortex fields and realize I will have to do alot more reading.

Regarding Cooks patent number 119,825, unless my eyes have a natural aversion to the word "aluminum", I for the life of me cannot find it in the patent. Please advise where or are you referring to another patent.

About the shelac, what I am worried about is putting shelac onto the aluminum layers. When rolling the AL foil, there will always be some loosness in the layer. If I put shelac onto the Al layer and if there is any loosness, when the primary thin wire is wound it could break the shelac. Especially when winding the Secondary (thick wire) onto the second shelaced alu foil layer. So I am wondering if the shelac is the best answer. I don't want to have to re-do this next build without doing some good testing, but I need a good starting chance.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: otto on July 14, 2007, 05:47:23 PM
Hello all,

the vortex or how I call it, the tornado. This is the reason Im here.

In the patent is Al NOT mentioned!!!!

I readed the patent very carefully, NO ALUMINIUM!!!

But I can imagine that there are used 2 metals. In the TPU should also be 2 metals. For the moment we are using copper and Alu but I hate Alu. With Alu is the heat all over the TPU. With copper is the heat concentrated IN the copper.

In the patent was mentioned to use a ribbon spiral.

In the patent 119825 you can see that this ribbon spiral should be really thick....

Otto
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Gregi on July 14, 2007, 09:25:41 PM
Hello CBCers,

Nothing special to announce, only that I built the coils.
What I have is on a d=0.2" (5.5mm) nail I put 5.2"(13cm) long AL tube and on it I wound 3 layers of 26AWG wire, on top 3 layers of AL foil and one layer of 13AWG solid wire.
Of course I put electrical tape for insulation where it should be insulated.
I only put 3 layers of the thin wire to try this out, since no one have tried it before.

Now, I couldn't make extended testing for the moment, because I don't really know yet how to use correctly a scope, and I don't have proper clamps and other stuff to connect the wires as it should be.
So I will order some labo wires, connectors, clamps and I will ask a friend to teach me to use the scope.  ;D

But since I am quite curious, could someone tell me where to connect the ground of the scope to be able see whats going on in the coils? But I have to tell that I don't even have a probe yet so its picking up a lot of ambient stuff... So for proper measuring I will have to wait until next week to get the stuff what I ordered.

Cheers,
Greg

PS.:what do you think about the 3 layers? I was told that its not so good because of the cancellation of the fields, and all...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: chrisC on July 14, 2007, 10:19:26 PM
@wattsup & otto

It's easy to search inside the patent for your keyword by

1. goto   http://www.google.com/patents
2. Type in the patent Number
3.  Click on 'Read Patent'
4.  On the right side, in the edit box, enter your search word
5.  Found references will be displayed and marked Yellow like a Yellow marker.

Yes, there is no Aluminum reference in that patent.

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 15, 2007, 05:54:04 PM
@ All

Take a look in this video. See the detail in last picture. Looks familiar?

http://www.leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html (http://www.leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html)

Regards

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 15, 2007, 06:34:09 PM
@All

I stand corrected. The word aluminum does not appear in the patent. It does appear on a modified graphic that was an attempt to show how Brnbrade constructed.
I've been running so many numbers my brain is turning to mush. The aluminum was listed on patents from others.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Doug56 on July 15, 2007, 07:47:38 PM
@ All

From same site above. But no more information about its construction:

http://www.leedskalnin.com/CookElectroMagneticBattery.html (http://www.leedskalnin.com/CookElectroMagneticBattery.html)

Regards

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2007, 01:12:43 AM
@Doug56 - Thanks for those links. It's funny but everytime I read Leedskalin, I am always asking myself how electricity REALLY moves in a circuit.

When you read the following document
http://www.leedskalnin.com/MagneticBase.html
2nd pargraph he writes,

When Zinc is put into the acid in a battery,and the right connections are made, then the North pole individual magnets will come out of the battery's positive terminal and South pole individual magnets will come out of the battery's negative terminal and they will come out of the attery as long as the Zinc lasts, etc.

What does he mean by "come out".

Again my analogy of lightning stricking the Earth never reaches the ground. There is a plume of lightning that always rises to meet it about 1/3 of way up. The striking to ground is an illusion. Leedskalin thinks we are all wrong about electricity. What if it is really two potentials + and - advancing to meet each other in the circuit.Geez. I asked this once on Erfinders' thread but never got an answer.

One another note, I just finished making my build #2 according to the build specs  1.2. My hands are dead. I wanted to make the same unit as my previous but with iron core, more aluminium and it has 58 turns of the secondary on one layer. Will be testing it tonight and compare to my first build to see if there is any better results or not. This will be more determining then if I made one drastically different to what I first made.

I took one of Brnbrades' photos and did a dimensional check to see if he had 35 turns of the Secondary and it does. See photo. Also, I took a close up of the iron core and the secondary comming to that end. Notice how his Primary end is very clean and straight. How could he get that so straight if he is using alu foil. I'd like to know how many layers he is using of Alu foil. Brnbrade - were are you?

Also did some searching and found a link for Alu Varnish here:
http://www.bichemie.nl/avis/en/pdf/avis-effectverven/avis-aquaalulak_en.pdf
Did you know that v-i-a-g-r-a has aluminium varnish in it? Talk about power. Check here;
http://www.sildenafil-citrate-rx.com/ (Search the page for "aluminium varnish".)

My next build will be with varnish, but geez, each layer will take alot of time to dry. That's a bummer.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 16, 2007, 07:04:42 AM
@All

Completed a trial to see if I could duplicate the use of AL varnish (provided it is loaded with Aluminum as some say).

I had some interesting but not profound results.

Construction: Same as BrnBrade said except - Instead of aluminum varnish on the primary (fine wire) I loosly wrapped aluminum weld wire as kind of a wire form for the copper primary - wrapped the copper between the weld wire and then covered with al foil. The weld wire was shorted to the below and above aluminum and I made no connections to it. The spacing between the al coil turns was just wide enough for the copper turns.

The core is a 3/4 inch bundle of #6 galvanized guy wire with a length of 9 inches. Those were sealed in shelac and covered with a single layer of al gutter flashing (I left the paint on the core side for dialectric and sanded the paint off on the coil side). The primary (copper between the al wire form) was 70 turns of #30 enamel covered magnet wire. On top of this I covered this coil from end to end with a folded piece of al foil. It would be equal to 4 layers thickness of the Reynolds wrap I 'borrowed' from my wife.

On top of that foil I wrapped 45 turns of #22 solid/insulated hook-up wire. The windings on the core were CCW.

The results (NOT OU):

Connected as most suggest nothing happened until I applied DC from a very high grade bench supply. The waveform went from flat DC to square wave modulated DC. It looked somewhat like the back of a wooden kitchen chair. The full wave duration was 8.45 ms. with the pulse .9ms wide. The wave did not appear until my drive supply hit 9.65VDC. The peak slowly increased as DC was increased until the P.S. reached 36.7VDC. At that point the peak would not increase above the DC base no matter how much I poured on the juice(it only goes to 40 anyway). The baseline DC increased, of course, but the additive peak would not increase on its own after the base reached 36.7. This was with a 100k ohm resistor at the coil in/out terminals. With the P.S. @ 36.7 the output of the coil was about 63 volts (zero to peak flat top). The current draw for the coil was a virtual short until 9.65 was hit then draw subsided as voltage was increased (and the AC component grew).

I have no reason to think the P.S. was putting out square wave. I use it in many more demanding experiments. Just in case I connected a 10mH choke and 10 ohm resistor(series) and drove then to the max. - Flat DC until the P.S. current limiter kicked in. It just dropped to a flat 1V and had to be reset.(power supply by Electronics Measurements Inc - Model HCR 40-6-101 - I used to use it to calibrate other supplies and meters)

This was in the garage and my good equipment is on the bench in the basement. I hadn't planned on seeing anything interesting so I only had a couple of analog meters and a DVM with a PC scope (good for a quick check and nothing more). I connected a 60 watt incandescent (120 VAC) in place of the resistor. I had the DVM reading for AC volts. When the PS hit 9.6 the DVM went insane and finally to zero. I crank up the juice until the bulb lit. The analog meters said Volts across the bulb was 63 AC (not a typo) or 29DC depending upon AC or DC scale. The current (DC scale) was 275 ma. I checked with the other analog and saw results almost exactly the same. The bulb was less than half brilliance (guess). Like I said 'Not OU'. That equates to 8.25 watts but when you add in the pulses it is less than unity.

I let it run while having a meal. Shortly after returning the bulb went black and the PS was in an overcurrent lock out state. I think I missed a sharp edge by the small wire  ;D

So, I think I can create the same effect as AL varnish. It appears to be encasing the copper and strongly affecting the field. When connected without a load there is almost no current draw when the volts are above the pulsing point.

BTW - The second coil is wound CW - as I see shown in one of the first BrnBrade photos and the way another projects works for me. I know - I know - "No it isn't!".

I'll rewind the coils with better insulation and try again later with better equipment.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2007, 08:22:29 AM
@BEP

Good good and good work. The wind is the hardest on the hands.

Any type of build is welcome for results. Whatever we all do, we won't have to all re- do. Thanks for your build.

I will discuss your build soon.

I also got around 46vac when just giving a frequecy from my recently arrived frequency generator. Put a 100 watts bulb and no light, no amps. But all is not lost.

@all

Regarding my build #2, currently all I see is the standard results. Wierd and wonderful but nothing to light up the street.

But and happily this may be a big but, I just noticed a major flaw in my builds.

I was simply pulsing DC onto the Primary (thin wire) and saw nothing on my compass. Under normal usage I am getting something when just doing very slight cap tests and I must say it is positive,  but it seems like the valve is muffled when compared to Brnbrades.

Then it hit me, where the CBC Secondary (fat wire) stops, the aluminium layer should be removed from over the Primary winding, leaving 1.5" inches of open Primary possibly to react with the exposed core end. I think this is the problem. The unit ends have to react and close the loop. My loop was covered. The Vortex is between the primary end and the core end. The excess energy is stored back into the Secondary to be re-used. Wow. I hope I'm right, otherwise we may have to wait till Brndrades three weeks are up.

I will remove the excess alu foil on my first build and do some tests, before I remove it from my build 2.

I put up some photos of the build here and lettered them according to the build plan 1.2. This will have to be modified if the new mod is positive.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 17, 2007, 01:05:58 AM
Interesting facts for consideration:

Aluminum is paramagnetic unlike copper (diamagnetic)
Al, while not magnetic will generate its own mag field when near another mag field (in addition to)

Maganese dioxide has the same properties. While also used in Al alloys (and others) it is also used to enhance drying of many black paints. Also used to provide the rich dark color in paints and varnishes. Ideal for coating Al? I haven't found a detail content listing of any AL varnish yet.

Aluminum and different forms of magnesium are used to enhance magnetic fields. This includes current research in Colossal Magnetocapacitance/Magnetoresistance. If this combination is reducing coil capacitance and resistance when a mag field hits it?????????

Maybe this would explain my coils breaking into oscillation at 7.05 kHz with DC applied.
I need to power them with a battery so there is no question.

These methods are used in Spin Valves and related 'Spin' processes and devices.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: otto on July 17, 2007, 09:00:55 AM
Hello all,

to use oxidised copper (CuO)??

How to oxidise copper??? There was a link how to do this. With a high current...dont remember the exact link.

Oxidised copper showes some anomalies....

Otto
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 17, 2007, 06:36:24 PM
You can lightly clean copper foil with a non-metallic scrubbing pad
Spray water on it
Microwave until  it is covered in black oxide
the black oxide pops off with flexing
under that you will see cupric oxide (known as red plague on circuit boards)

The black oxide may be in use here
The red oxide makes the sheet photo-electric
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 17, 2007, 08:09:56 PM
@BEP

Great info on coatings. Thanks.

First off, let's use Primary as thick and Secondary as thin from now on cause it is getting confusing using Cooks' original terms.

I am wondering about something. Is it possible that Brnbrades' Secondary is non-insulated wire to start with. This means he puts varnish on the core, then puts his alu foil then he would have to insulate the alu foil with varnish before he can wind his Secondary, then he would varnish again to then put the second alu foil, then he would wind the Primary.

I looked carfully at the photos and although the photos a far, it seems the Secondary wire may not coated.  It does not have the red or glossy tint to it.

I modified my first build and there are no better results after hours of trying so many configs, I am wondering if the two layers of electrical tape (wound half width overlap makes two layers) may have any adverse effects or hinder any "skin effect" required to make this work. Two layers of tape per insulation, when you consider that there is 4 layers of insulation before the Primary wind, that's 8 layers of electrical tape, I think there is too much between the coils and the skin effect of having the alu foil is lost. I can't think of anything else because the device is doing something, but not enough.

So I guess I will modify my build 2 Secondary ends and do some more testing.

Oh hey, looking again carefully at his Trial #3 with sound making 250VAC, his wiring scheme is different then the other trials. If we use my ABCD photo as a guide, he is doing as follows: AS to DP, BS to CP, CS to AP, DS to BP.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 17, 2007, 09:20:08 PM
I'm doing things a little different than you but the thickness of the tape increases that gap. This has a two-fold effect. One, it decreases capacitance - Two, it decreases the magnetic field strength.

I did a coil autopsy on my (secondaries? they appear to be control coils). When my coils overloaded the PS they meggered as an arcing short to the AL foil @150V. I unwrapped them while inspecting. The arcing short on both was at the exact middle of the coil. This I don't understand yet as the foil stills shows open to all other surfaces and the highest voltage input was 40DC with the highest output 63DC pulsed@7kHz. If I missed harmonics building I probably also missed a much higher peak.

There was a lot of bucking/boosting going on.
With a battery as supply I got the same square wave results on a backup coil.
This appears to be the reverse action of the Tesla magnetic rectifier with very similar connections. It also seems to function like the resonant tank spark gap transmitter. Instead of switching the E field it appears to be switching the B field.

I don't know at this point but it is interesting. When I have something that seems to go in the right direction I'll post details and ask for help on diagnosis.

You may try wax paper until heating becomes a problem or a fine silk.

I will be starting to experiment with maganese oxide this weekend - black goop inside some dry cell batteries.
 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Gregi on July 18, 2007, 10:49:01 AM
@wattsup

I also have thin wire that don't look red and glossy, although its still insulated.

Greg
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 18, 2007, 10:30:12 PM
Well I did my modifications on my build #2 but nothing special. Same old same old. Voltage rises to around 9vdc. Light a small bulb, goes down, and starts going back up again.

Tried so many combinations of caps, voltages, loads, no loads, transformer in series with either the primary or secondary or other configs, and nothing gives. I am almost certain now the electrical tape is a hindrance indeed.

I have contacted a company in Europe that makes the Alu Varnish to see if they have a dealer in North America. No answer yet. I don't think I can buy directly from them since this would entail shipping of a potentially flamable solution. That's a no no. Sooooooooooooooo.

Maybe I'll try Kraft paper.

Or maybe I'll just wait out the three weeks (two weeks left haha) until Brnbrade comes back. This will give me some time to work out more ECD tests like my ECD+ idea.

Unless someone has a better idea, at this stage, I am stumped.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 18, 2007, 10:57:03 PM
I'll be mixing the black goop from dry cell batteries into conventional clear shelac. If the effect is what I suspect then it'll be the same as Al varnish.

Does the speed of voltage change with different or no capacitance?

The changing voltage sounds like a good sign - It tells me your coils are connected correctly.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: lancaIV on July 18, 2007, 11:09:22 PM
Thomas Townsend Brown used,as written in the GB300311 publication,
"empire cloth" for insulating the gravitator cell motor !
The cell material: something with A.... .

S
  dL
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 19, 2007, 04:15:16 AM
@BEP

I'll be mixing the black goop from dry cell batteries into conventional clear shelac. If the effect is what I suspect then it'll be the same as Al varnish.

Does the speed of voltage change with different or no capacitance?

The changing voltage sounds like a good sign - It tells me your coils are connected correctly.

Yes the speed of voltage rise or fall is dependant on the cap used. I found that with low uF caps, there was no or little rise, with high uF caps, the decrease was slower when lighting the bulb and the increase was also slower since it required more uF to raise the voltage.

Since I do not know the capacitor value of Brnbrades' Trial #1 and #2, I tried all the ceramic caps I could find and none worked. The ceramic caps I had were in the high voltage low 0.xxxx uf range. I would need to find one with high uF low voltage but have not been able to find one yet.

Brndrabes' Trial #4 was the one I could try exactly as I had the same cap values since they were easy to identify. This was without input voltage or sound, and nothing worked. Tried start ups with voltage pulses in vairous points and nothing. Also, we cannot see on the photo were the meter was actually set. That is why I indicated either 13 or 50 VAC output on the photo. My unit was not near this, no AC, slight DC, so this main comparison of my unit to Brnbrades results leads me to conclude that my unit is not made properly.

Also, I connected my meter to points A and C and my signal generator on point B. Was able to bring the voltage up to 68 vac, plugged a 7.5 watt 120 vac bulb and nothing. Voltage dropped to mV's but no light. There was probably minimal current.

So all in all, the build in question is not good.

BEP - Please make sure you write down your next build spec so we can compare.

My build #1 had 3 layers of alu foil, build #2 had 24" on the first alu foil layer and 36" on the second alu foil layer. Maybe this was too much also.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on July 19, 2007, 03:30:05 PM

... Maybe I'll try Kraft paper.

Or maybe I'll just wait out the three weeks (two weeks left haha) until Brnbrade comes back. This will give me some time to work out more ECD tests like my ECD+ idea.

Unless someone has a better idea, at this stage, I am stumped.


Sure! Why don't you try the obvious thing and connect your Aluminium capacitors to obtain either series or parallel resonant circuits. Because if Brnbade has anything at all, this is it. Otherwise, it's just a regular Cook McFarland coil.


Well I did my modifications on my build #2 but nothing special. Same old same old. Voltage rises to around 9vdc. Light a small bulb, goes down, and starts going back up again.



... So all in all, the build in question is not good...


Wattsup,

You can choose to see it that way, but you'll be missing out on something really important. This is like looking at a rough diamond and thinking that it is worthless.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 20, 2007, 01:47:41 AM
Regular Cook coil?

I'm hopeing my will be regular if that means working like he said it should.

Don't loose hope in it. I didn't understand the importance of magnetic circuitry until mine started putting out seemingly perfect square waves with battery DC input.

If I can reproduce this effect when I repair them this weekend I'll post details so others can help figure how it does it.

It is becoming clear that magnetic circuits are analogous to electric circuits and have the same importance in design. I haven't even tried adding caps. The only resistors i used were to limit current initially.
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 20, 2007, 11:16:28 AM
Hi BEP,

In my opinion the iron cores serve only to reduce the frequency of self-oscillation so
that it could do something useful and be measured in 1871.  That is also why he wanted
to use cores that are a meter long and coils with huge inductance.

I do not think any ferric cores are necessary in 2007, air-core should be good enough.
Today we have nanosecond oscilloscopes, microwave spectrum analyzers, etc. which they did not have in 1871.  Iron core automatically means more losses.

Two NEO magnet cores would also be an interesting experiment.

Regards, Earl
Regular Cook coil?

I'm hopeing my will be regular if that means working like he said it should.

Don't loose hope in it. I didn't understand the importance of magnetic circuitry until mine started putting out seemingly perfect square waves with battery DC input.

If I can reproduce this effect when I repair them this weekend I'll post details so others can help figure how it does it.

It is becoming clear that magnetic circuits are analogous to electric circuits and have the same importance in design. I haven't even tried adding caps. The only resistors i used were to limit current initially.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 20, 2007, 04:08:43 PM
Guys, don't get me wrong. Same old same old is still good if you measure it in a few volts. Also the effects seen are very interesting and I am just a little pissed that I could not replicate at least one of Brnbrades Trials. it's still wierd and wonderful!!!!!

@Earl

I think the iron core is doing much more than that. At best the iron core is being maintained polarized and magnetic. Cook says his core can also be used to initiate motive force.

@Jason

I connected the two Alu foil layers on each coil set together and no change. Thanks for the idea.

@BEP

I am a nyphite when using my scope. What do you mean by seeing almost perfect square waves. When I am putting DC onto the coil, when checking with the scope either on the AC or DC setting, it is giving the same sine wave, upper half, lower half, etc.  Also when I was putting in only a frequency from my function generator, the sine wave would not change even when I switched from square wave to triangle to sine.

Funny effect - when looking at my build as points A, B, C, D.

When I put 3 vdc (or more) at B and D and measure voltage at A and B and place the meter temrinals so it measures as positive current. Then I put my compass at the core end it is the North pole, the other core end is the South pole. Now when I switch polarity of the 3 vdc feed on B and D, the polarity on the meter goes to the negative, but the compass still shows the same core ends to be North and South. They did not change? In fact if you move the compass all the way around the coils, it will move from north on one end of the core to south on the other regardless of switching polarities on the feed, the north and south will stay the same. I would have expected this to change when changing the 3 vdc polarity.

I will make some more studies on this and do some small diagrams to show this effect under different connection schemes.

I aint over till it's over.

@all

Actually for us electro-nyophites, I am wondering if I should open a new thread entitled "Electronics 101" where persons with low level EE capabilities can ask (and not be ashamed to ask) many elementary questions, that if answered would push them forward in leaps and bounds. Not all OU'ers are EE pros but have great logic sense. If you saw all the projects I am doing right now, you would agree that non- EEers have a valid place in OU research. All we need is some clarification on certain aspects of EE and a new thread could be good place to harbor such information that newcomers can be directed too.

Are there any EEers willing to participate, but have the patience to teach?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Thedane on July 20, 2007, 05:32:25 PM
wattsup:

I would recommend that you read the "XYZs of Oscilloscopes" from Tektronix
http://www.tek.com/Measurement/App_Notes/XYZs/

I would also recommend that you read the "ABCs of Probes" - also from Tektronix
http://www.tek.com/Measurement/App_Notes/ABCsProbes/

I hope that will clear up a few questions about your scope  :)

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 21, 2007, 01:26:49 AM
@Wattsup

You should always feel free to ask. Anyone belittling you for asking should be spanked. The difficulty in answering is not knowing important details.

I also see the core polarity anomoly. I may have an answer for that when I am able to reproduce my last experiment (without the short circuit!)

Sine-wave generally appears like ripples on water surface. Triangle is similar but the peaks and valleys are sharp and pointed. Square wave is like Sine except the rise and fall times tend to be straight up or down and the tops and bottoms are flat or near flat. You should follow Thedane's advice. When you understand the screen you will have a multitude of information to work from.

@Earl
I'm using ferrous core as that is only a starting point. I'm trying to look at the whole process as if I must drive a horse and buggy to the saloon at night. I thought about following the suggested dimensions but I tend to knock out electronic communication and fry things with much smaller devices. If my wife saw me wind a 6 foot coil she would call 911.

I did try some 13mm x 3mm stacks of Neo's. The peak to trough distance increased but self-oscillation was non-existant. I'm starting to think the longitudinal waves are being reflected by the Al layers. This should not happen. I need to prove to myself how it does or what is actually happening.

All this learned info is being applied to my reproduction of the 91Volt TPU. Even if I get a cooking Cook coil I'll continue with the TPU.

The attached is a sketch from notes of the waveshape. If someone has seen this before I would appreciate info.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 22, 2007, 07:03:55 PM
@BEP

How's that varnish drying?

Thanks for your explanations. I read some of the Scope doc and is helpfull but you know what happens with us EE-Neo's, we only need 3-4 points to clarify but you have to wade through hours and hours of literature.

I am now totally convinced my build is being muffled by the electrical tape, with up to 8 total layers, it is killing the skin effect at each level and this is giving me maybe 15% of the real effect I need for a CBC.

I am going to have to take mine apart and re-do with simple varnish. The Alu Varnish maker in Europe never responded to my e-mails. I guess being in Canada, to far for them and they probably don't have a distributor in North America.

I am including the product link to the Alu Varnish and another link to their regular web site. If anyone is in Belguim and can contact these guys, I would appreciate it.

Aqua Aluminium
http://www.bichemie.nl/avis/en/pdf/avis-effectverven/avis-aquaalulak_en.pdf
Company Web Site
http://www.bichemie.nl/avis/en/

I have learned alot while testing the CBC. I will wait another few days in case anyone here can reach the manufacturer for me. I will be working on my ECD. I just wound one layer of insulated alu wire around my CC's to do some more testing.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 24, 2007, 01:06:47 AM
Well, I finally got a response from the manufacturer of Alu Varnish in Belgium. They do not have a distributor in North America and will not send only one can of varnish to Canada. So I guess their Alu Varnish is a no go.

The other option is too make my own using fine aluminium powder and a good quality varnish. Their Alu Varnish has 34% solids, but this could include a whole host of other elements besides aluminium. They did confirm the RAL9600 color is aluminium color.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: joe dirt on July 24, 2007, 03:27:19 AM
Hello All

@Wattsup  would using aluminum paint work?

http://www.flyntpaint.com/index.html

Dirt

edit: you might be able to mix it with a laquer or polyeurathane.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 25, 2007, 01:58:08 AM
@joe dirt

Thanks for this USA company info.

I sent them an email yesterday, and got a response today and they can ship to me in Canada in small quart sizes.

Also, they have confirmed that their aluminium paint can be mixed with laquer or varnish. Plus the best news is they can make their paint with varying percentages of aluminium paste in it. I will be speaking with them tommorrow. I think I will ask them to simply make the highest percentage possible and I will do my own ratio mixes with local varnish. Seems like this will advance "eventually".

Probably, by the time I get my next build with alu varnish, Brnbrade will be back on this  thread.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: guidoc66 on July 25, 2007, 06:34:50 PM
Hi Wattsup and All,
I'm new in this forum and I'm trying to replicate these special coils. I do not have well understood the way you connected the coils: if I follow this intruction "AS to DP, BS to CP, CS to BP and DS to AP" I get two independent closed loops : one on the positive and the other on the negative sides of the conderser (for instance in one loop the CD primary coil is closed in series with the AB secondary coil).

I am certainly missing somenthing here and will appreciate very much your help.

Thanks,
Guido
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 25, 2007, 07:05:13 PM
@guidoc66

The wiring scheme you mentioned is one that switches sides from one of the Secondaries to the opposing Primary.

The standard connection is AS to CP, BS to DP, CS to AP and DS to BP.

In both cases one Primary is connected to the opposing Secondary. The connection scheme you are reffering to is the same except that one of the Primaries is connected in reverse to the opposing Secondary.

What type of build did you make. Please identify it on this thread so we can keep track of builds and results.

wattsup
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: guidoc66 on July 25, 2007, 09:29:36 PM
Hi Wattsup,
thanks for the prompt reply.

My coils are as follow:

core : plein soft steel 6mm dia x 35 cm
primary : house wire 1.5 mm2 x 52 turns
secondary : 0.2 mm insulated x about 1450 turns (16.5 ohms) in one layer only
Electrict tape as insulator and Al foils wrapped several times around the core and coil
One mistake I did is that I wound primariesl CW and the secondaries CCW but I take this into account when I apply you scheme.


I'm starting doing some experiments and was trying to replicate your experiment where you saw the capacitor going up in charge but when I try to depict the connections I get the two closed loops, I mean the two leads of the condenser are connected to two separate loops, no current flow is therefore possible.
I'm sure I'm missing something. Where is the capacitor connected to? AS and CS is what I understand.

Thanks,
Guido

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 26, 2007, 02:06:44 AM
@guidoc66

Very good size. Imagine 1450 turns  of the secondary. Yours hands must be totally numb and your eyes must be hurting also. It is not easy to do.

I translated your dimensions in Imperial so I could understand them better as follows;

Core Dia.: 6mm = 0.2362"
Core Length:   35cm = 13.78"
Secondary 0.2mm = 32 AWG
Primary 1.5mm = 15 AWG

My test set-up was very simple. I would put a capacitor on B and D, the voltage meter on A and C. To start it up, I would take 12 volts from my power supply and hit the B- and D+ and the voltage would increase. Removing the DC supply, the voltage would decrease until the capacitor reaches a certain level, then it would start to rise on its own. When I got to 7 or 8 vdc, I would put a small 12vdc 150 mA led on the A and C. The voltage would decrease then I would remove the led and the voltage would start rising again.

Now maybe with your build having only a .25" core, may make a difference one way or another.

The capacitors I used are either DC only or polarized. I would put the negative on B and the positive on D. Some of the values I used (over 50) are as follows;

27000uF 40vdc
330uF 200V
2200uF 35V

I had no success at all trying to repicate Brnbrades' Trial #1 and #2 as I do not know the cap value he used. I imagine it is high uF, low voltage but have not been able to find a ceramic cap of that type value.

Anyways, you have to play with the device. cap sizes, wiring, DC voltage for start up, etc., and if you have a scope you will see the effects.

Also if you have two compasses you can put them here and there around the coils while suppling DC voltage to B and D. Put them at the core end (long end) and you will notice one is North pole and other is South Pole. Now switch the DC supply polarity and you will notice the core end poles do not chage. Curious effects indeed. hit the Dc supply on A and B and see the compass turn.

Enjoy and please let us know your results.








Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: guidoc66 on July 26, 2007, 08:19:34 AM
Hi wattsup,
so far I used a 15000 uF 100V condenser. When I charge it up to about 18V it stays there for long time, after 24 h it gives 16.5V but I'm pretty sure this is just some leakage current of a good capacitor. My oscope does not show any sign of "life", just flat line.
My secondary coil was actually wound thanks to a drill at low speed (as screw driver): pushing the wire against the core with a finger works fine and every turn is wound adjacent to the previous one. It actually took 10 min but I did not use any system to count the turns and so rely on the coil resistance. Next time will count turns with a counter... wich I don't remember where it is.

I'll try the tests you suggested this evening and maybe will start working on a second version with different sizes, trying to get closer to your device.

Thanks,
Guido
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 26, 2007, 06:33:34 PM
Some info that folks don't seem to get here:

The Cook patent was filed in 1871.
Magnet wire - as we know it today - wasn't invented until 1877.

The coating was the big change. This coating was devised by an employee of Sherwin Williams and was the beginning of one of the largest wire producers in the world today.

Before that wire was often insulated with 'Empire Cloth' or some other form of treated cloth. Also, the wire used was often iron. That must be the source of the name 'magnet wire'.

The coatings used created winding to winding and winding to form spacings much larger than we see today. This made the electromagnets weak and prone to heating problems. It may have also created spacing that could be an integral part of making a Cook coil.

Because of insulation problems coils were often wound on forms that had grooves for the wire. This made a stable place for the wire. Forms we usually made of ceramic or Bakelite(sp?) or other things that were easily molded.

Ocassionally, you'll see coil forms made of 'Pot Metal' or Aluminum in old radio sets - like the Atwater-Kent radios.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 26, 2007, 08:55:09 PM
@BEP

In the patent we read as follows "also a large copper wire of good conductive quality, the wire being well insulated with silk, shellac, or paraffine, etc.". The shellac is the varnish or laquer we use today. Also he is mentioning copper wire.

What do you mean by "Some info that folks don't seem to get here:". I am trying to read between the lines but I don't catch it. 


@all

On a different note, I just got confirmation from this USA company that they have just shipped out one quart of their Aluminium Paint and he is convinced it should do the job. Otherwise they are willing to supply me their Aluminium Paste and I could do some mixing myself. He also said that back in the 50's they would paint transformers with Alu Paint saying it held in the radiation. He also said the paint is very liquid so it will be able to penetrate between the coil windings to create a very solid form. Drying takes about one day per layer. 4 layers.

@guidoc66

Don't make another build yet since I really think the electrical tape may be hindering the coil effect.

Also, take just your capacitor (not connected), load it to 18V, put a small led or bulb on it to bring oen the voltage to about 2-3 volts, then remove the bulb and see if the voltage will go up on its own.

Then do the same thing connected to the CBC to see the difference, if any. I do this to prove the capacitor has no way of going up on its own to the extent that is does. they will always play a few mV but not volts.

So always put a load after charging the cap, bring down the voltage, then remove the load before 0 volts and let it rise with just the CBC.

I will be on vacation all next week and expect the varnish to arrive between then, so I will be ready for my next build ASAP.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on July 27, 2007, 12:30:06 AM
@Wattsup

I'm seeing the information in a different way than I've heard here.
Since I can obtain oscillation I know there is something worth chasing so I'm providing what I see is in the data.

The patent was filed in 1871 but magnet wire isn't even close to what we think as magnet wire until 1877. So my question to myself is 'what was magnet wire in 1871?.'
After a lot of digging I find out it was usually bailing wire, uninsulated and poor grade iron. The reference to copper seems to me as a reference to the secondary (the winding powering the load). That makes good sense.
Another piece of info is "or the primary helix may be made of un-insulated wire coiled into a solid helix, being insulated only between the coils". When he talks about the coil with the small wire he calls it the primary. Insulated only between the coils? Solid helix?
What he is calling a helix is what we call a primary or secondary winding.
A solid helix would mean uninsulated wire wound tightly more or less like a sleeve than a winding with the only insulation being between it and the winding above or below it.

When he mentions the multiple currents he appears to be referring to pulses. There were no scopes back then. So what would he call them? Probably currents.

Then - "In the use of compound helices it is important that the secondary coil should be wound on in the same direction as the primary coil, and that the poles or wires should be connected to the opposite poles of the primary coil B"

I see it as both windings on a single core should be wound with the same direction BUT when a coil with two windings is made this way the primary to secondary connections must be swapped.

The size is also an issue with me. Large size means lower frequency. Adding caps means lowering the frequency. I doubled my coil size and the result freq was about 1/4. I don't use caps. There is no mention of them in the patent.

Then 'steel magnets' - if you wanted a permanent magnet back then you laid your bar out on a solid surface pointing to North and whacked it good and hard one time with a hammer. If you wanted to demagnetize it you pointed it East/West and hit it.
Whatever magnets he had they weren't strong. It is easier to perturb a weak field than a strong one.
It is easier to manipulate a field away from the source of the field than on the surface of the source.
The materials Cook had forced him to make inferior windings and constuction - at least by our standards.

I'm saying that if we want to replicate something it must be done with an understanding of what was possible then and how.

It may very well be that BrnBrade has made modifications to compensate for our modern improvements and the difference in word meanings since the original patent. English not being his primary he probably translated the patent with literal meanings. So should we.

As you see I'm not trying to replicate the BrnBrade coil. I'm trying to understand how it all works since there isn't enough information to continue. So I started digging deeper.
I'm just offering what I've found.
 

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: pese on July 27, 2007, 09:27:42 AM
give attention

Coating . Jes this is an point.
that was silk.   (Seidenfaden umsponnen )  iare exact german words - in dont know the gootengl. words for thistechnic .

so also it is possibel that "iron" wires was used ?

In Austria , was manufactufactures LINE-Transformers , without
needs or Iron core , with Iron Wires !!.

Also i found years ago some  ofer Cook /Mc Fairland thathe uses
19 to 25 (or 27?) turns  on  prime to secondary  !

Think about this

Pese
Title: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Earl on July 27, 2007, 10:29:52 AM
Hi All,

wires in 1871 would have been insulated with varnish or silk.
The terms "silk covered" and "double silk" covered are well known.

see:
http://www.hws.org.au/crystalset/mystery.html

Even today in modern transformers sometimes the wires are insulated with silk and glass combined.

In the past, some transformer laminations were insulated with silk.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on July 28, 2007, 05:44:48 AM
Hi All  ;D

I have new discovery.
In tests and good results.
No more decrease energy in circuit.
Now ramp ascendent energy.

regards
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: turbo on July 28, 2007, 09:54:24 AM
Why do i not believe you?

oh wait you were burning the 12 v car bulb off the two tiny batteries, now i remember.
make sure you show ALL the wires this time...
i think it's kinda dumb to post something like "hey guy's i found something, bye."

M.



Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on July 28, 2007, 07:25:54 PM
@BEP

Great post, thanks. very enlightening and some very good points.
I am more concentrate on building Brnbrades CBC then the original Cook Coil. From what you have indicated in terms of crude material usage giving a potential lack of performance, Cook made very large coils to probably get the potential we could get at maybe 1/10th the size.

@Brnbrade

Does your new discovery have anything to do with your new Avatar?

@all

I am off on vacation for one week starting Sunday morning. Keep well all.

I will print Erfinders PDF for reading on the beach. Ahh, the good life!
I case you have not seen  hispost, here it is;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,133.msg41969.html#msg41969
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 05, 2007, 07:58:53 AM
@all

Just received my Alu Varnish at my office today so will start on build 2.0.
Nothing else to say, same old same old with the existing builds.

Oh yeh, here's a good read on Tesla.
http://ftp.anomalies.net/ebooks/(ebooks).ALIEN303.The.Complete.Conspiracy.Archives.89.files/The%20Strange%20Life%20of%20Nikola%20Tesla.pdf

@Brnbrade

If you are in a talkative mood, please advise.
About the varnish. Do you cover all of the secondary and primary.
About the alu foil. How many turns did you use?.
Anything else you can advise on the build.


Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 07, 2007, 03:59:27 AM
OK, since I did not get any other news from Brnbrade (no wonder)
I started doing my build 2.

Here are two photos of 12" iron rods being alu varnished.

The manufacturer recommends one day for drying, so I guess this build will take at least 5 days, that's if they only need one coat.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 09, 2007, 06:21:13 AM
So, here is an uppdate on the CBC v2.0 build

1st picture shows a 12" alu-varnished iron rod roll-wrapped with alu-foil.

I decided to roll a 1 foot length. The foil is wrapped with the shinny side facing outwards.

So each linear inch of alu covered rod has 12 square inches of alu-foil. For the outer edge I just used some Lepage glue to make the foil edge stick tight. I then rolled the rod on a flat surface to take out any soft spot or floating layer. This should produce the tighest surface possible for the next alu-varnish and secondary winding.

Photos 2 shows the same rod but now the alu-foil is removed from each end 3/4" off the left end and 2" off the right end.

Photo 3 shows the rods after being alu-varnished over the 1st alu-foil.

I am going to give them three days to dry because the next step is winding the secondary which will be very stressful for the coating. I don't want the wire to bite into the coating and crack it.

I look forward to testing this sucker. Using the alu-varnish will eliminate 4 layers of double wrapped electrical tape as is in build 1. That's 8 layers of tape. The primary wind will be so close to the core and all layers will be skin close. The secondary wind will be embedded in a solid aluminium flake and alu-foil structure.

Meanwhile, I can do some work on the VAR.

Nice reads on some of the threads. Keep it up.

@marco - like the dancing magnets.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: joe dirt on August 09, 2007, 09:46:32 PM
Hey Wattsup,   I,m glad the alu paint came through for you,  looks nice, hoping this
  will show some interesting effects after all is complete :)

thanks for the info
Dirt
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 13, 2007, 04:12:22 PM
Some have asked me about my build v1.0 on the secondary length.

The secondary is 29 awg wire 9 inches long and it take 6 turns to cover 1/16". Each turn is very close to 2" long.

So 9 x 16 x 6 = 864 turns
864 x 2" = 1728" or 144 feet

On the build v2.0 I have left the alu-varnish to dry for over 4 days now so it is now a very hard surface. Tonight I will wind the secondary coils, take some pictures, check there is no short circuit, then proceed to apply more alu-varnish. It's a long process but it gives me time to work on my VAR project.
Title: Re: Modified Cook Coil?
Post by: wattsup on August 17, 2007, 01:18:18 AM
@all

For those interested, I had to wait for more mag wire as I had calculated I would not have enough. So I just received some more and will be winding the first coils tomorrow and proceeding with the alu-varnish. I'll take photos of each step.

Also, I have now removed Brnbrades name from the title since he has not been back here to answer a few questions, plus his 2-3 weeks is now twice over. So I figure he is trying to forget this thread ever happened. I will still finish the build v2.0 and do the trials. We'll see what happens.

Also I have been talking with a few other people off the board who have their own builds so this will still be a good point of reference for them.




Title: Re: Modified Cook Coil?
Post by: wattsup on August 22, 2007, 12:11:18 AM
@all

So here's a photo of my CBC Build 2.0 secondary coil wind.

With the alu-varnish replacing electrical tape, the wind in much smoother. The circumference is 1 3/4" whereas the build #1 was 2".

Turns per seconadry - 828
Coil length 8 5/8"
Wire Length - 120 feet
Wire - 29 awg

I will start varnishing both of the coils tonight and let them dry for 2 days before the second alu-foil and varnish is applied.

Yes it's a long build.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: starcruiser on August 22, 2007, 12:39:29 AM
Lookin' good so far! can't wait to hear and possibly see what it does!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 22, 2007, 03:42:24 AM
@all

OK here's a photo of the secondary after alu-varnish. Now I'll let it dry for 2 days and maybe apply another coat.

@Brnbrade

Just one question.

Does the second layer of alu-foil cover the primary completly?



.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on August 26, 2007, 08:49:10 PM
Well, as this build continues here are some more photos.

Photo #1 is a shot of the 2nd alu foil rolled.
Photo #2 is a close-up
Photo #3 is a shot of the alu foil cut on each end.
Photo #4 is a close-up
Photo #5 is a close-up of both rods after alu-varnishing

So we leave this dry for a few days and start the primary wind.
Almost done.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Mike Furness on September 02, 2007, 09:25:38 PM
As I have just been directed  here from another group, there's much more unknown than known!  I am also an electronics engineer, and a transformer designer!

Many things shout LOUDLY about this design!   

Turns ratio, wire guage, even what sort of wire?

Am I to assume that it's standard shellac or solderease winding wire in copper?  insulation in this is 2,000 volts continuous rated! so, why add more?

Aluminium Tube?????

What frequency do you expect it to work at?  Your Iron nails will have huge losses at only a few hundred cycles, and the aluminium tube, even less!

IF this WORKS, and I hope it does, then the dimensions of ALL, and Tube wall thickness will be absolutely critical!   By conventional theory, this has no chance whatsoever of working! 

Screening of wires is usually done for ferrite cores, 50KHZ plus, with substantial power throughput, (hundreds of watts) 

I would like to end this post, relating to something on a similar (rotating) line that I was SOLD by a man we all now consider a charlatan, there are about the same number of variables in this design, as mine, (approx.11)  and that means that the number of different ways to wind, wire guage, core, and aluminium tubing, and frequency, is factorial 11,(more than the lottery chances in UK of 17 million to one) After a month, I gave up on my device; Moral to this story is that nothing will be reproduceable, except by pure chance, unless EXACT materials, engineering drawings, and tolerances are published.

Mike.

mike. J. Furness
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 03, 2007, 12:52:09 AM
@MikeFurness

First of all thanks for your comments and please don't be a stranger. Some guys here on this thread would need your input on some coil designs, etc. I'm curious about the test you have done and on which device. Who's the chartlitan?

I understand and agree with you completely in terms of the many variables. That is why I put up my build specs as clearly as possible.

But the original guy that put up his design called "Brnbrade" has not given any more precise specs on his build. Needles to say I and others have asked him many times for some precisions but no go.

So my third build is using alu-varnish instead of electrical tape as in my two previous builds.

I am about to wind my primary since the aluminium varnish is now very solid.

We'll see. 3 down and 16,999,996 to go.

If every you come back, try and take a look at the ECD thread and how that device has three coils on a mobius. If there anything you can point out in terms of best voltages, frequencies, etc. I am thinking of pulsing 100K vdc at milliamperes.
Here is my ECD build spec but you may need to read some of the thread to get an idea.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg37956.html#msg37956

Lastly, if you are knowledgable in transformers, maybe start your own thread and talk about transformers and their applications in "potential" overunity devices. Traps to avoid. Also, how you see back emf and how it can be controlled or captured for re-use. We need all the help we can get here.

Kind regards,

wattsup
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 23, 2007, 07:55:33 PM
@All

OK, here it is, the CBC-V2.0. I will eventually put up the revised build spec on this one.

I finally decided to keep the whole thing untapped. This way I can try different primary coil lengths by just rolling them on a separate rod and then simply slipping them onto the core.

The present Primary has 35 turns. The secondaries in this picture are connected in the cross mode.

Thus far, nothing special to report. Same old same old.

I am still looking for ceramic caps that have low voltage, high mf but have not succeeded to find them yet.

Will be trying all the trial configurations #1 to #5 to see if anything gives.

This is a pretty long build in itself plus my lack of time by doing so many other things, plus the obvious lack of any type of response by Brnbrade sort of put this project on the low end of my priority list.

Anyways, I will see with time if there is anything to this or if Brnbrade was just pulling our leg by simply adjusting his meter calibration set screw to a higher level when he took his pictures.

You know what, nothing would f*&kin surprise me anymore. It seems like ever Joe Blow that comes on the forum with something new to show always has some strings attached. No one is transparent. They always have something to hide or some f&?ckin idiosyncrasies that hold them back from talking openly.

Sorry about the rant but I am so tired of all this bullshit. Seems like the only real teamwork happening here is when everybody goes out to lunch.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: jacob on September 24, 2007, 03:00:07 AM
Hello Wattsup,

@All

OK, here it is, the CBC-V2.0. I will eventually put up the revised build spec on this one.

I finally decided to keep the whole thing untapped. This way I can try different primary coil lengths by just rolling them on a separate rod and then simply slipping them onto the core.

The present Primary has 35 turns. The secondaries in this picture are connected in the cross mode.

Thus far, nothing special to report. Same old same old...


Are you saying that you are witnessing the same behaviour you  witnessed with your first built, and can you please describe this behaviour.

Thanks.

Jacob

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 24, 2007, 03:01:25 PM
@jacob

Give me a few more days to do some varied testing under different Trial numbers, but so far nothing special.

Looking at Brnbrades' CBC, I noticed that the elevation between the secondary wind and the primary wind is more accentuated than mine, and cannot be explained by his taped exterior. Is it possible that his primary was two layers and he did not mention this. Or is it possible that the primary is wound like a two layer mobius. 

Something like what EM put up on the Inside Coil thread linked below but not in the knotted fashion shown in his diagram. Or it might have been in Ottos threads.;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3279.msg49393.html#msg49393

Also, if you look at Brnbrades core diameter and then the secondary diameter winding, the difference is also more accentuated then my current builds. Using the alu-varnish really cut down on the diameter of the total CBC considerably, so maybe he is using a dual winding secondary also.

Last thing is I will remove the alu varnish that is still coating the end of each of my coils. Maybe this is also an important aspect of releasing a magnetic field via each end.

Anyways, further testing is required for sure.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on September 25, 2007, 10:18:43 PM
I mentioned a slit. I believe someones else did also.

Mine was with the thought this may be an oscillator form of magnetic amplifier. The opposing slits on different layers of aluminum with a coil between would function this way. It did when an active device was driving it (transitor). It even created some alternate bucking and boosting when DC was fed in one end and a 100W 120VAC lamp on the other end.

The results were interesting but far from self-running. The only thing that seemed unique was the coils were sensitive to local magnetic fields. When my bench fan was running I had a hard time getting any activity. When the fan was off - DC into one end with the lamp load - I got a definite 7.5kHz pulse. The DC component matched the power supply output. The pulses were nearly square wave, uniform with an amplitude of 63VDC.

So all I proved was it could work as a bucking magnetic amplifier/oscillator without an active device. I quit when the load current exceeded my puny wires and shorted them.

Since I couldn't get Al varnish I tried encapsulating the inner winding with AL. This was done by wrapping the foil onto the rod - then copper winding (with uninsulated aluminum wire between each turn and a coil unto itself but unterminated). This AL wire was shorted to the lower and covering AL layer. So basically the copper winding was encapsulated with AL along it entire length.

By running current through the AL from one end to the other and then reversing the polarity I could control the current flow through the copper winding. Fun but no use found yet.




Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: scotty1 on September 27, 2007, 02:02:14 PM
Hi all...just thought i'd post this as Bep mentioned it...
This is the original diagram that Cook used for his patent. He just added another one.  ;)
It comes from a magnetizm manual from 1857, so they were using some form of covering for the wires back then.
Scotty
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 27, 2007, 04:31:50 PM
@scotty1

Where did you find this? On the net? If yes, where please.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 27, 2007, 05:50:32 PM
Hi wattsup,

here it is:   http://www.archive.org/details/davissmanualofma00davirich

Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on September 28, 2007, 05:04:17 PM
It is a great read!

At a minimum you'll see the real meaning of terms used in the Cook patent.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 28, 2007, 07:18:20 PM
@BEP

Yep, you were probably reading the same time as me. A definite must have in any OUers, grab bag.

The thing though is that nothing there is really discussing any OU potential, and all my tests so far (Build 2.0) have not given anything at all.

Funny, in the book he talks alot about using wire cores and my first build using a wire core gave me some of the best results.

But when you think of it, regardless of how you connect the coils, if you have power on two ends of the primaries and the load off the other sides, in essence, the primary will bypass the secondary as the path of least resistance to the load. Or am I regressing. My primary is 0.3 ohm and the secondariy is 8.2 ohms.

Now if I was working on the Mythbusters Show, after three builds, and testing all of Brnbrades Trials, expect the one with the small brown capacitor, but I tried about 30 different types, I would have to say that this Myth is Busted.

Whatever Brnbrade did with his coils to show the results he did, I am now very convinced that he first set the meter callibration screw way above the zero point, then did his connections and showed his results.

So either he is a total ignoramus in the way he used his meter or he just pulled a fast one.

My builds are totally as per his instructions and he has never come back to this thread for any other clarifications, so at this stage of the CBC saga, Brnbrade is in the bottom heap of the crap pile. Sorry but that's why people replicate. To see if others are saying the truth or if they are bullshitting us. Let the results speak for themselves.

I'm sure Brnbrade knew it would eventually come to this and that is why he never came back. He wants to forget this ever happened and he surely did not think someone would build three CBC's to find out. Well i'ts done.

This case is closed.

So now that I have 4 solid iron core CBC sections, maybe I can build an Erfinder system placing each coil at 90 degrees. lol
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on September 28, 2007, 09:44:56 PM
Agreed.

It was definitely a learning experience. I was pretty sure he was onto something until he suddenly switched tracks. The use of Aluminum, some Al varnish actually containing copper oxide with no AL (the stuff that looks dark blue when dry). His results that started to sound like an earlier project of mine. I was chomping at the bit to pat the man on the back.

The good part, for me, was all my trials with figuring what he might have, led to a clearer understanding of what went on my bench before he appeared.
And now we have a Rosetta Stone for 19th century patents!

Primary = fundamental frequency
Secondary = first even harmonic
Tertiary = first odd harmonic above fundamental
Some coils are iron wire
Windings of that era had a thick insulative coating vs. enamel today.
If an Al or brass sleeve of coil covering is mentioned it should be assumed it has a longitudinal slot along the entire length. If AL without a slot the magnetic field from the coil is concentrated inward because of a Halbach like effect.

The first oscillators were longggg before Tesla!

Probably a few more I can't think of right now.

That and the understanding of magnetism hasn't improved much since the early 1800's  :'(
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: scotty1 on September 29, 2007, 02:18:43 AM
Hi guy's...I see you found the book....
Look in that book and see how the Earth's field is described, and how it would effect science if it were correct.
The truth is that all the magnetic theories of today are wrong, and it is because of the mathematics they use to describe electrons. This maths does not allow them a complete picture.
Erfinder refuses to see the truth too...even after i corrected his drawings....he went and changed them, and then told people off for changing HIS drawings. ???
If the scientists would admit what they know to be true, what their theories themselves predict, then we could all get on with our work in a new light.
To electrical engineers the positive electricity is everything...but to the physics guy, he only cares about the electrons.
Do they really know how the current is running in a wire? Which way it is going and what makes it?
I tell you the truth...BEMF or reverse current spikes have nothing to do with a collapsing field in the coil.
Scotty
leedskalnin.com
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on September 29, 2007, 03:36:00 AM
Quote
...The truth is that all the magnetic theories of today are wrong, and it is because of the mathematics they use to describe electrons. This maths does not allow them a complete picture.....

So we use wrong theories to design CRT deflection coils and magicaly they work. 
and we use wrong  theories and design electric motors and magicaly they work.

wow, we've been pretty lucky so far with our WRONG theories, one of these days the magic is going to wear off and poof, everything will come crashing to a stand still  LOL.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on September 29, 2007, 04:02:20 AM
In the Preface to Daniels book,  we read:

Quote
The object, which
has been kept in view, is in all cases simply to state
the facts which have been observed, and to generalize
them only so far as the progress of discovery
has fully authorized.

I wish we would all practice this philosophy in our sharing of experiments, instead of rambling on about our theories  LOL

Also, a bit of history to put the Daniels book into perspective.

http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/oersted.htm

Oersteds discovery in 1820, that a magnetic compas needle is affected by an electric current flowing in a wire, united the two separate phenomena.  MAGNETISM, AND ELECTRICITY.   Now we know they are related and call the science Electro-Magnetism.  

In Daniels book (1842) it appears he's yet not aware of induction as a way of generating electricity.  From the table of contents we have the 4 ways of generating electricity 
1)  Friction   (Van de Graff generators have been around for a hundred years prior and they use this form)
2)  Galvanic  (battery, and this has been around for a while)
3)  Thermo 
4)  Animal  (say what?   LOL)

Anyway,  I'll try to read through the book see what he has to say.  It's interesting to read early writings.

Thanks for the link guys.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 29, 2007, 07:43:08 AM
@BEP

Glad to see you agree.

@EM
You are very right about the book.
And the "animal"  will definitely need some explaining.

@scotty1

Thanks for the reference but maybe when referring to this book, is it possible to quote a page number. That book scrolls real slow.

It's good to have someone from leedskalnin.com on this thread.

Actually, it's from leedskalnin that I started to get into trouble about my positive and negative. Still haven't explained it.

Also, on Erfinder thread, I asked about the positive and negative. Also got in trouble there for trying my transformer version of his circuit.

And granted we've been wasting the negative by just grounding everything we have to it, like a garbage dump. I know this is one of the ECD's problems. I know this, but do not know enough about electronics to take advantage of this knowledge. Stuck in a NonEEer body, with an OU mind. I guess that's why Davis's book seems more close to home. Elementary. 1842. What an honor indeed.

If current only travels one way, how does a filament of a bulb know when to burn up molten hot, and still be able to give continuity to the other polarity. How can that continuity signal be maintained amongst a molten hot filament. Something had to come from the other side to tell the filament, here's were you burn. That has puzzled me. The advent of both polarities advancing toward the filament and heating it from both sides seems to be the most plausible answer.

I always give the lightning analogy on this. Where a lighting bolt never hits the ground. It descends until such time as a bold from the ground rises to meet it in mid-air. Both polarities advance towards each other. It would explain so many unexplainable phenomena.

Even Erfinder's circuit is better explained when you see it as both polarities advancing towards the commutator. I had looked at that circuit for days, as I know others have here.

But in todays world, such thinking can get you in deep shit with the EE authorities.

My own brother is a classic EEer and he thinks we're crazy. He's my favorite antagonist. If I need someone to call to verify OU, he's the one.

I will probably never be able to understand it enough.

But then there are the nuts and bolts. When a device is shown with x and y components and is shown to produce some results, then when you replicate it, and it does not, this cannot be explained merely by a lack of understanding.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on September 29, 2007, 03:15:44 PM
@EM
Yes. Read it. Please do. You'll see the main difference between his explanations and ours is mainly terminology. Induction is there.

Animal ? Yes but like he said he only shows what he finds and describes it the best way he knows.

@Wattsup

Don't fret about not having the EE label. It is fine if you can suppress it until verification is needed. Having an EE in the family is probably a better scenario.

All I can say is I know enough to know I don't know it all and what has been taught to me must always be confirmed. The laws of physics are only observations. The observer sees it happen - does his math to prove it - does his proof to prove the math. It doesn't quite come out right but he knows it is because he observed it. So he hammers the math and the proof to match. And here we are.

Like Einstein said 'relative to the observer'.

Sure it works for all the things we design today.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: scotty1 on October 03, 2007, 01:45:49 PM
Erfinder....while we were chatting on msn messenger, you clearly stated that your presentation would only be making claims, and no working model will be presented...Is that still correct?
Oh, I see you finally let your name be revealed in that document.
I will be fascinated to see the minuites of that discussion....
---------------------------------
Now obviously I know that current motors ect work with the maths to make them work, but all that math is based on magnetic fields that are not composed of particles....now what if the field is made of particles?
I can explain electricity and magnetism without ever showing an electron.
The current model of magnetism says that there is no motion in a closed magnetic circuit...but the tests i do show that there is motion.
-------------------------------------------
What Ed was saying is that the North and South monopoles are the cosmic force and they are the final division of matter..not the electrons and other quantum particles.
EMdevices......Ed also clearly states that that the original J.J Thompson tests with the vacume tube were bias to the neg polarity, and so the beam was given the name electron....
Ed states that if you suspend a needle magnet in a vertical position over and in the center of that electron beam....and the cathode being on the west side and the anode on the east side, then the verticle hanging needle magnet will be deflected the same as it would if it were suspended over a current carrying copper wire...now that said...that same needle can also be deflected by a closed magnetic circuit...as Ed wrote and tested in his notes....
Oersteds tests are in Ed's notes too...I built the device to show how it works.
Lenz's law is in Ed's notes too...but he gives a much better description of how that works...and it must work because I use it to wind my coils in my motors...
Ed's theory is all about DYNAMIC MONOPOLES...and both North and South pole monopoles.
Ed said that if it were called Magneticity then he would accept it, because it shows a magnetic base.
The more people would replicate Ed's works according to his notes, the more understanding will come out.
I think that any serious researcher will find many answers in the model that Ed Leedkalnin describes.
Anyone who thinks I am rambling simply has not done the work. 
Scotty
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: scotty1 on October 08, 2007, 01:47:30 AM
Hey Erfinder....or can i use your real name now?
I guess the way you could answer is to tell everyone that you have no models built, or have not tested any of your drawings.
It will be good if you post all you thoughts....then i can post all my work...as i've been doing alot of testing and building....in fact we have 2 models being built.
Maybe you could just tell us what electricity is..what makes it and how it runs in a wire.
As you told me the other day Erfinder.....you will be up there telling them how it is.
So make sure you tell them that a collapsing field in a pulsed coil is NOT due to the sudden disruption...but rather something else...and make sure you explain about what Moray said....When you put something under strain and then let it go..............
And make sure you explain Ed's words on the same thing........roll up the 6 magnets and LET THEM LOOSE....da...da...da.
I have already compiled my notes on these matters.....It will be nice to have something to compare them too.
Now even though you told me that you would try to keep your lecture away from me....I'm quite sure that someone will send it to me....same as they sent me all the posts you deleted....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For anybody interested in this line of study...please mail me with any questions and i'll do my best to answer.....but please note...many of my answers invole experimentation.
Experimentation and building models is the only way to advance our studies...unless you are Erfinder who says "you know when you know"  ???   know what?
Some of my info is in my Yahoo group...linked to leedskalnin.com
Funny that Erfinder NEVER made one post there even though he was a member until last week.
And he has had the answers we seek all this time....now that's funny mate.
Scotty out

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 24, 2008, 02:03:11 AM
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I was wondering if people are still experimenting with the McFarland patent.

I reread the patent and I realized what it is, and it works.

It's so simple and it creates a lot of tension (or voltage) as he says.

It's even like a battery, just like he says.

But there is a catch to it.    It needs to be STARTED with a battery or magnet.

But it's very simple to start it.  In fact others have done it.  In fact it's used in industry  :)

Can anybody guess what it is?

EM

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: allcanadian on January 24, 2008, 02:52:59 AM
My guess would be the coils act like capacitors, the collapsing field produces a inductive discharge current of high voltage --- meaning electrostatic induction?
You have it working then?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on January 24, 2008, 02:59:13 AM
Lemme guess..... The scope shots look like a high-back kitchen chair and none of the frequencies calculate to fit in the coil space.

Magnetostrictive oscillator with buck and boost feedback.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 24, 2008, 03:39:38 AM
Guys, if you read what he says carefully, especially how to start it, and how he "keeps it alive" when not in use, and that it's beneficial to make it long, etc..  you will quickly realize that this thing is a .....    SUPER INDUCTOR.

I did some calculation on the amount of energy you can store in it and it's significant especially if it has lots of length and wire and quite some volume of iron  (area of solenoids x length) and of course high permeability of iron.

The circuit of how to keep it alive is simple and I finally realized what the guy is talking about. 
It is a type of battery, and it does produce high tension with increasing number of turns, but what it's not is a free energy device.

It has to be "started" or the flux has to be built up in it.   And that's where the trick is.   He of course did not say anything about the device running forever, or about the device mysteriously creating energy or any of that.

It's just like a super capacitor or a battery, it's simply an energy storage device and the energy needs to be put into it in the form of magnetic flux.

Here's the energy in an inductor:

U = 1/2 L  i^2 ,  if we replace  L with N^2 u A / length

U = (N i)^2 u A / (2 length),   realize u = u_0 x u_r, where for steel u_r = 8000

Notice N = number of turns is squared, and so it's the current.

Image 1000 turns and 10 amps, that's 10 000 x 10 000 = 100 million
constant u_0 = 4 pi (1e-7)

Do the math and assume some length like he suggests and you will see what kind of energy you can get stored in it.

I calculated something close to my 12 volt battery capacity (the 5 Ah one)

EM

P.S.  Actually assuming 2 meter length , 1000 turns and 10 amps, and 8000 for the relative permeability I get 25 Joules, much lower then a 12 volt 5Ah battery, but not bad, it's a battery to be sure.

He mentions that you don't need the compound helixes, or the two coils on one rod, they can have just one coil, and that also makes lots of sence.  What you do need is the two rods, so the flux path can closed and the flux build up to high levels.   The use of the many iron rods is just to eliminate the eddy currents that he mentions they rob him of the high tension or voltage.  Again perfectly makes sense.  Then the direction of the winding, again makes perfect sense.  (imagine two side by side spiral or coils wound identically and connect them at the ends, then determine the way the flux is created, and you will find the two coils work together, i.e. N to S pole, so yes a closed flux path.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on January 24, 2008, 04:08:31 AM
Super inductor - negative inductive reactance - reductance. Yes, all of that and exactly as he says - a battery - galvanic, as well.

He also talks about multiple 'currents' and the way they travel and effect the others.

The rheostat ( a potentiometer with only the wiper and one end terminal - for those not familiar with the term ) is connected across the load point becasue if he breaks the circuit the feedback and oscillations die because there is no current flow. Then he must start it again.

Like all the old patents there are many things that can be interpreted incorrectly simply because the word or phrase meant something entirely different a hundred years earlier.

I pass dust when I build up pressure so maybe that is why I see these things. And when I found out that magnet wire -as we know it today-  wasn't invented until after this patent - I needed to pass more dust.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 24, 2008, 04:21:50 AM
exactly BEP,

I just can't believe we get suckered into these old patents.  I mean if the thing was some sort of a promising technology it would have been all over the place by now, and it's not, why? because there are better things to store energy into than this thing.  Only nowadays do they research new materials and try to improve on these old ideas.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on January 24, 2008, 02:27:30 PM
I'm sure there were a share of shysters back then.

Who knows? Maybe he sold snake oil between patents to help people with consumption, gout and dropsy.

There also may be things 'assumed' in these old patents that are no longer assumable.

For example: At the time of this device it was common to use earth batteries. The most famous use was with telegraph stations. They would bury two cells creating a line pointing to true North. The vertical height difference between the buried cells was adjusted to creating a line following the local magnetic inclination.
There were wires ran between the cells but I havent seen clear diagrams.
The expected galvanic destruction of the cells didn't happen unless their placement was wrong. These arrangements were used in telegraph, pharmacies, doctor offices, blacksmiths and later - telephone.

The exact meaning of helice and coil have changed a bit also.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on January 24, 2008, 02:49:25 PM
@Guys

Geez I was just talking about this thread to someone else a few days ago and bingo, some are back here, I guess for the final round of Truth or Consequences.

I think EM is right that this device is a capacitor and may be used in conjunction with other components in a completed system. Maybe a cap for a dc motor, maybe to better catch flyback (notice I did not say BEMF - lol - shoot I just said it).

But the clincher question still remains "how the hell did Brnbrade light up those lights".

I still have my three builds;

1) Bailing wire core
2) Solid iron rod core
3) Solid iron rod core with aluminum varnish encapsulation

Of all three, the first worked the best.

Hey maybe I can use one of these once I make @HG's swing generator.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: allcanadian on January 24, 2008, 04:42:07 PM
I think there are some very important questions we are not asking here, this device seems very similar to Leedskins perpetual motion holder. If this is a super inductor or a capacitor of sorts then what is the mechanism by which it stores energy?. We know in our circuits any current flow will produce a voltage DROP and a diminishing current in microseconds. So we know the methods we are using don't work, so the question is then how do you get around a voltage drop when current flows? In order to store energy over time there must be a voltage rise to compensate, if we want to use transformer action we already know the outcome so there must be another mechanism at work. Another clue is the aluminum, a diamagnetic material, we know this thin film has basically no effect on the magnetic fields we usually deal with so it must be something else. Now here is an interesting quote.
Quote
He also talks about multiple 'currents' and the way they travel and effect the others
"Currents" ---- plural ---- more than one type of current, Tesla also speaks of "currents" in a plural sense, meaning more than one and more than one type. And in fact we know of two types of current ---- current like from a battery and an inductive discharge current which produces a voltage RISE based on the amount of resistance it encounters. I have been experimenting with this mechanism for a while but still can't resolve the issue of the dampened wave. I am fairly confident that all of these patents are using what Tesla refered to as "undampened" waves, an undampened wave is just what the name implies, a wave which will NOT diminish in strength over time. But as always there is probably a very simple aspect of these devices we are missing I have yet to nail down.
regards
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 24, 2008, 06:54:04 PM
Yes, you can say this is a PERPETUAL MOTION HOLDER.  

Magnetic fields generated by magnetisation of mater, makes use of the atomic spin or rotation  (perpetual motion on the atomic level)

Under the influence of an external magnetic field,  these tiny magnetic "moments", or little magnets,  align themselves with the external field, and the net macroscopic effect is an observed magnetic field that is even stronger.   (the atoms are always magnetic but the net effect can be zero when the external field is removed due to random orientation of the tiny magnetic moments)

So what keeps the magnetization "alive"   ?

I can see you guys are wondering, but it's realy simple.    If you build up a magnetic field in an inductor, and then short the inductor leads, it will continue to persist.   This is because as the magnetization tries to decrease the coil reacts by Lenz's law to drive a current that opposes the change.   Hence the magnetization is preserved by the current that flows in the coil.

To make such a system as efficient as possible so it can last a long time, it is necessary to use a coil with very little resistance so it does not rapidly discharge the inductor.  So that's why it is better to use two coils, a multi turn one for the high voltage that might be required, and a small turn coil that will keep the magnetisation alive by flowing a rather higher current.

Here's a drawing I did to illustrate the basic operation of an inductor storage system.   Can you identify a practical problem with it?    I can see one already  :)

EM

@allcanadian, there are multiple current in his invention absolutely.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on January 24, 2008, 07:33:19 PM
Yes.

Single coils on each core, even with low resistance and shorted, the flux will still collapse in short order.

This is why the second coil on each core is needed. As the flux falls it crosses the turns of the inner coil (high turn count) which are connected to bolster the flux in the outer coil of the other core.

If you use multiple rods or iron wires for the core you increase this activity and add vibration which causes more flux change. If you break the circuit completely this cycle is stopped and the flux falls to a damped oscillation.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: allcanadian on January 24, 2008, 07:49:10 PM
I just made a post in tesla technology/patent 512340 that seems very relevant to this, that is how the device could maintain operation and produce excess energy in the right context if multiple coils were used. Just a thought :D
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 25, 2008, 04:48:36 AM
I'll go read what you posted there allcanadian

BEP,  the trick to getting the flux not to collapse fast is in the resistance of the wires. 

I can't find the web link, but some guy already demonstrated this.  He could close the switch and open a few days later and it would still have the flux ready to do work.

Anyway, this is what struck me as the mechanism for this invention.  However, it could be something more interesting than we imagine.  However, he does say that it's not galvanic.  And because he seems to explain how it works based on currents, it leads me to believe its the super inductor concept.

I'll go read his patent once more, maybe something new will jump out at me.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: BEP on January 25, 2008, 05:24:54 AM
Are you thinking of Matthew Emery?

I have the impression you are thinking more in terms of what old power plant folk (meaning me) call circulating currents. They were a bugger in multi-generator systems but used no noticable energy from the generator. (Not to be confused with cross-currents for those thinking they are power plant folk ;D

I think the trick is to not allow the flux to fall at all. Supposedly this is expected to be possible in parallel resonant circuits but the conductors would have to be superconductors or, at least, zero ohms. All impedance would be approaching infinity.
But then I'm talking about voltage varying over time.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: EMdevices on January 25, 2008, 07:00:48 PM
that's exactly it BEP,  that's the guy I read about.  See the link.

http://keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm


That's the concept right there.  That's what I was trying to say.  The flux can be maintained with a closed switch on a coil that has low resistance and the current just circulates to maintain the flux.  When the energy is needed, the coil is applied to the load and the low resistance bypass opened.

EM
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Diode on April 08, 2008, 03:34:30 AM
Are these coils types related to the Steven Mark's TPU?..They all seem to use many coils and are trying to capture FE from somewhere.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: triffid on July 20, 2008, 11:44:37 PM
test
Title: Re: The Brnbrade OverUnity Coil/TPU
Post by: aether22 on July 21, 2008, 04:58:18 AM
I have 2 (or 3) suggestions for anyone trying this.

Run an electric motor or a buzzer near it. (DC or universal would do fine, powered by battery possibly or by the output, although if so consider using caps to isolate it)

Second, put 2 batteries in reverse connection on the secondary so that each are making the coil positive.

Oh, and it never hurts to use a few paralleled incandescent bulbs in the secondarty circuit as they will help pull in EM.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: albator10 on September 15, 2008, 06:21:57 AM
Hi,

The original patent of Daniel Cook (US 118825) is no longer available !!!!

If you go on http://www.freepatentsonline.com

And you try to retrieve patent 118825 you have the message :

***WITHDRAWN PATENT AS PER THE LATEST USPTO WITHDRAWN LIST***

WHY?

Are the free energy patents will begin to disappear ?
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 15, 2008, 09:56:26 AM
Hey,

The Cook patent number is NOT what you wrote!            It is 119825 and it is available either the patent offices or here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3962.msg72150.html#msg72150   

Now you may ponder on what on earth US118825 patent was all about... that is missing indeed.


PS:  by the way read more carefully this thread because the Cook patent turns out not to be a really free energy setup...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: sfieszaq on September 04, 2010, 11:20:46 PM
Hi,

I have some idea how to force to work McFarlands battery.
I think that all of you saw this link:

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm

Please find this part:

"It is interesting that while connected to the charger there is 25 amps. in one direction and only 10 amps when circulating in the other, but after disconnecting in any direction, it remains at six amps."

What if we build McFarlands battery in this way how I've showed on the picture?

The most important think is start up our set.

S.

Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 04, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Hi,

I would like to notice that his Amper values shown on the analog meter are very much in doubt (or should be treated with suspicion), especially when the meter is placed right on the iron core of the PM Holder.  The reason is that such analog meters have a horse shoe magnet inside which is sensitive to nearby iron materials and thus change the flux around the inside moving coil, hence the calibration of the meter can go away anywhere... so I do not believe there is 6A current flowing with disconnected cables.

I do not mean you abandon tinkering with this setup at all, I wished to point out my observation. I noticed similar meter behavior in my practice too, (not with this setup). Just be careful when using such moving coil meters near or close to magnetizable metals.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: sfieszaq on September 05, 2010, 12:12:48 AM
Yes, I agree with You that anyone should be careful to use this kind of meter close magnetic field.
...but I am sure Emery before put meter above holder possible was playing with it on his desk in various positions.
I do not understand why You wrote "so I do not believe there is 6A current flowing with disconnected cables."
Who said dissconnected?! He was talking about charger not about holder.
I wrote "The most important think is start up our set." ...in proper way!!!
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 05, 2010, 11:23:42 AM
Hi,

Ok, I was meant this picture: http://www.keelynet.com/energy/meter4.jpg

and just above this picture this is written:
 
    "After disconnecting charger needle remains at 6 amps"

and just below this picture this is written:

    "Showing disconnected cables & reading 6 amps"

So if the charger and ITS CABLES were disconnected, ok, but then it is possible that I misunderstand how he connected the Amp meter into the circuit ?  Do you know? Please clarify.


Logic for me says he connected the meter in series with one of the charger's output, as I would do when checking currents.

But if he meant "magnetic currents" flowing in the core, then probably he simply placed the meter on top of the core (without any wire connection) and the strong magnetic field near the core (when the charger was ON) deflected the meter's needle to the 25A point in the scale in one direction and only to 10A in the other "circulation" direction, and the needle showed 6A when the charger was OFF.  In this case he used the meter as a magnetic field strength INDICATOR device, NOT a Amp meter, only he was not aware that the 6A indication was due to the closeness to the core. Had he lifted up the meter with his hand 10-15cm above the core, the needle would not have shown 6A but zero.
Sorry but this is what I think from the text descriptions and the pictures.

You wrote:

"The most important think is start up our set." ...in proper way!!!

I understand that the core can have remanent magnetism in it when you stop the DC ampers flow in the coils (you simply magnetize the core temporalily) and how long this magnetism remains depends on the physical material properties of the core, different for a 4% Silicon laminated transformer core or for a Hypersil type core or for steel types etc. 

Your combination of the 'motion holder' with 'McFarlands battery' is interesting and hopefully you find or have already found the "proper way to start them up".  Looking forward to your findings.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: sfieszaq on September 05, 2010, 11:44:50 AM
Sorry Gyula,

I think You right. It is not clear what he used amps meter.
Hmmm....On picture
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/coilbench1.jpg
I cant see any wires..
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 05, 2010, 12:05:14 PM

Nor can I... 

But this is one thing, nobody has to be an EE or a professor, what is more lack of special electrical knowledge to stumble on something unusual may bring success more easily..., I hope Mr "Brnbrade"  who is still a member here did really find out something useful with the combination of the TPU and the Farland setup etc. Too bad he does not write about it.
I hope your combination of motion holder with the McFarland setup brings some juice.

rgds Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 05, 2010, 04:00:42 PM
@gyulasun

I think you are right also about the amperage readings.

I saw @brnbrade was on the forum a few days in a row since yesterday.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 05, 2010, 04:44:27 PM
Hi wattsup,

Yes I have noticed him too, and he was just logged-on when I mentioned him in my previous post.  ;)
Hopefully one day ego or greed or proudness or whatever will be defeted in him... provided he has any useful setup at all.

Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 05, 2010, 05:18:35 PM
@gyulasun

Well I think all would agree that he is more then welcome to partake.

I think we did our utmost to accommodate him while he was here and we gave his directives our best trial effort. But eventually it was like trying to draw water from a rock. Even now, when I have new ways of pulsing circuits, I will always pull out my builds and give them some more trials but nothing so far could replicate his demonstration of constant power output from a simple starter pulse.
Title: Re: The Ever Silent Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:34:05 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:38:37 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:39:20 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:43:38 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:44:26 PM
....
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: brnbrade on September 29, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
...
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: gyulasun on September 29, 2011, 06:56:15 PM
...

Hello brnbrade,

How are you?  Wish to say something?

Gyula
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: wattsup on September 30, 2011, 01:04:36 AM
...

Hello brnbrade,

How are you?  Wish to say something?

Gyula

@gyulasun

Maybe the secret is in the three dots. lol

Just jokin...

@brnbrade

So.... how have you been. Hope you are doing well.

wattsup
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Lakes on September 30, 2011, 08:51:41 PM
is it Morse Code? :)
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Google on February 04, 2014, 12:53:53 PM
Hi Guyz,

Any updates on brnbrades coils...


Thanks
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: dieter on February 16, 2014, 10:13:37 PM
Interesting that the layers of aluminum(or copper) and isolation also appears in the "phenomen" thread. I do recall this drawing (first one on page 1) it must be Coler or Tesla. Anyway, interesting way to connect coils.
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Google on February 17, 2014, 05:32:39 AM
Hi

This phenomenon of coil-pacitor also exists in Testatica, Handershot Generator and Hubbard Coils also. Nothing mysterious about it. In a parallel plate air capacitor the electric field lines between plates create a magnetic field, perpendicular to the electric field.

In some paper by a russian (Vladimir Utkin), he mentioned a similar thing made by a 7th grade school boy for his science project. Try and google "Mislavskij transformer".

Best
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: Jeg on March 24, 2014, 11:15:15 AM
All builders:
Please use aluminum varnish only. 

Ed Ledskalnin wrote to use aluminum or brass cores for his coils.

Barnbrade used aluminum sealing under his coils.

As far as i understand from Don Smith's experiments, a variable magnetic field creates displacement currents which are perpendicular to this flux change, capable to charge a metal plate capacitor which lies in an appropriate position in relation with this flux change.

What if we use those aluminum surfaces to form a capacitor and connect it to the rest of the circuit forming a tank circuit with the coils? I have a feeling that in these patents like cook's coils and Ed's PMH, those aluminum cores under the coils are an active capacitor, and in some way the coils are connected to it.

Just wondering.
 
Title: Re: The Brnbrade Coil/Overunity?
Post by: dieter on March 29, 2014, 02:17:20 PM
When you wrap Aluminum foil around a coil, or use a hollow aluminum core (a pipe) , or other conductive material, you should be aware of that you made a one turn short circuited coil this way. It may inductively pick up much of the current of other coils, alter their phase angle and dissipate energy. It will be of extremly low voltage and high current. Just like a theta pinch. Indeed, the idea to combine this with a capacitor feature is interesting, but the chances for wasted energy are bigger than those for free energy, I guess.


Regards




BTW. Jeg, what has Ed's PMH to do with aluminum cores?