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Author Topic: HHO Implosion Engine Study  (Read 61372 times)

Offline IronHead

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HHO Implosion Engine Study
« on: June 28, 2007, 04:07:12 AM »
This started in High Voltage HHO

found a page here about a browns gas electrolyser.  claiming 2400 liters per hour of browns gas in a 126 series plate setup at 11 amps at 240v.  converted to dc of course.    so with added frequencies.... more powerful gas in large amounts

http://amasci.com/weird/bgf1.html

Cost to Operate Compared to Oxy-Acetylene: p42 " Here we are paying about 4 cents per kilowatt hour.(Canada) Our 2500 Liter/hr electrolyzer draws about 10 kwh. This is 40 cents. At present, this electrolyzer uses about one liter per hour of di stilled water,when producing gas at 2500 liters per hour. I buy my water at 25cents/liter. Total cost per hour=65 cents. I bought my own little oxygen (50 cubic feet) and acetylene(40 cubic feet) bottles years ago. The deal is,I exchange these bottles f or full ones whenever I need more gas, paying for the gas but not paying rent on the bottles. It so happens that if I use my bottles down to dangerously low pressures, I can get 2500 liters of volume out of them. So, if I use gas at 2500 L/h, I can get o ne hour of use. It costs me $52 to fill these bottles. So, total cost per hour is $52. Thus my cost to operate the Brown’s Gas torch is nearly 99% less. …If I was paying `18 cents per kilowatt hour to operate the Brown’s Gas torch, it would cost $2.05/ hour to operate. (distilled water included) This would be 96% less operating cost. p42.

If Brown's Gas is exposed to a heat source, it will expand. Implosion of this expanded gas will utilize atmospheric pressure. Numerous pumping applications and the development of atmospheric implosion motors are the result. Implosion, as a single react ion, only occurs with this gas and is impossible with other known substances! When Brown's Gas burns, it turns into water. When it is produced from water using electrolysis, it expands 1,860 to 1. Implosion is achieved with a high frequency spark of 9,00 0 Volts or higher. When subjected to electric ignition. it uniquely implodes (patented in March, 1990 after 8 years process time) producing a near perfect vacuum. Upon implosion, vacuum is 1,859. The remaining "1" becomes once again a pure form of water. Only a low decible "ping" accompanies the implosion. The speed of detonation (or burn rate) is greater than 3,600 meters per second. There is no contraction - expansion effect when the gas is imploded only contraction. Little heat is lost to the equipment in an implosion cycle. The low cost of gas production than ensures an inexpensive method for production of ultra high vacuum.   


so... stanley meyers injector which disassociates water and then uses electricity to ignite it.... hmmm 

I need to do this .
"vacuum is 1,859. The remaining "1" becomes once again a pure form of water."

This type of and engine would need no exhaust  just a water return and no intake  just a HHO injection. And from what I am understanding no cooling as there is little heat transfer. Will start experiments based on implosion  and use a pneumatic
cylinder for the engine simulation to start if I can maintain implosion.

Good cylinder for testing implosion effects.


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HHO Implosion Engine Study
« on: June 28, 2007, 04:07:12 AM »

Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2007, 04:09:15 AM »
according to that paragraph it may need to be heated first.  its says it expands when exposed to heat.. then you can implode it.  so when the torch burns it at around 300 degrees and you expose a voltage potential to it..   sounds alot like the center of a vortex   diassociation of water.. high voltage.. heat from the friction of water spinning and imploding onto itself

Heat  ,gotcha  induction heat the implosion chamber  n/p


Anyone else like to get in on experimenting with this?

Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 04:11:00 AM »
now be careful when your doing all this.  have you seen what happens when you expose a 150 psi air tank when you expose it to vac... its not very happy about it to say the least.     so  how much vac do we get from 1860 to 1/1860 the size and what sort of volume are you talking about in an engine cylinder.... how much vacumn can a piston in a standard car engine take? or the valves before they get sucked into the cylinder. this may be a matter of taking the head off and putting a plate on it with no space in between the piston and the head.  i just dont want anything to happen to anyone.  these forces are huge.  BE CAREFUL is key  ;D

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 04:11:00 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 04:19:54 AM »
I am a firm believer in relief valves and a receiver in case the rod blows out instead of being sucked in. I have seen propane tanks blow, a micro nuclear explosion in a bomb box not made to with stand such a thing, a blower of a 600cu  nitro blowen hemi  rocket to about 30 feet in the air ,plasma ball  burn a hole in the ceiling and a few other things I wont even try to describe ......... and this is with in the last year  :)

I just don't think a piston engine is going to work here .One is the added oxygen from the air . Next is the idea of valves we dont need valve at all   no need for intake or exhaust .

I think this thing has to be a vacuum chamber to start , then inject the HHO into this chamber . wait 2 stage  implosion on one side explosion of the other  . I have alot of thinking to do.
 
This might work in a car engine with a second firing B-TDC or primary firing . Before compression even. No  ,there is a way though


First thing is first ,stable implosion
This is new so my thoughts will be abit more scattered than normal

IronHead
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 04:56:17 AM by IronHead »

Offline Robb077

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2007, 04:56:15 AM »
In my opinion, hho is not for combustion engines. A different approach is to burn the hho gas in a nearly closed chamber which will burn into a plasma. Then steam water to run a quasiturbine motor (see quasiturbine.com) which will run a car with few moving parts....or generate electricity.  Totally different approach....

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2007, 04:56:15 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2007, 04:58:40 AM »
Nice,  More input. Everyone I want to hear some ideas on this stuff  this is great stuff right here!

Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2007, 05:18:40 AM »
i went and got some food and thought about this.   1860 times the size.  so in a cylindinder. no valves, basically taking the head off of an engine and putting a injector in the middle of the cylinder.  well not really a injector... for example with stans injector he had about .010 gap between teh center electrode and the outer.  so you have what maybe a 1/4ml of water in there prob less.  so anyways you use 1.4 v and whatever amp you need to get rid of that water. turn it into hho.  then you use a heating element in this "ceramic insulated" injector that then expands the gas further giving you optimum conditions for implosion.  at this point the expanding gasses have allowed the piston to go back down to the bottom.  (keep in mind this whole reaction is in a vacumn it just is going to expand as far back as it will let the piston go)

then you release your spark which is according to the browns gas 9kv so im sure that a spark plug spark would do just fine.  this hv "lightning" causes the implosion reaction sucking the piston back up.  whats left.....

the water you just disassociated... its back in the injector because the "solid plate head" has a gap of .01 between it and the piston.

low drag plastics?  ptfe...   EDIT Delrin.      what type of engine... i dont know has someone tried it on a car engine, i seriously doubt it, and if they did you would have to replace some things,you couldnt have any oil in there to lubricate.  id like to see it in a radax style engine.......

ive also been contacted by a member here last week whos interested in posting up an engine design.  words have been thrown out such as 1 cycle... along with some other parameters... anyways hopefully he will post it up he said he working out some details cause he wants to split it up...  


PEOPLE POST YOUR IDEAS ON HERE... or put links to other threads that have your ideas proposed for harnessing this energy.   Im really sick of hearing about supression cases on the internet.  this is free source.  thought of right here.   but... if your going to throw out an engine design include a theory on how to harness this power.. dont just say "this engine"  thats what we should use.. ya know

if you read into browns gas you cannot boil water with hho.  

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2007, 05:18:40 AM »
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Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2007, 05:25:33 AM »
on a side note... these hho torches will weld metal to bricks.  melt metal, take ceramic to the heat of the sun (blows a hole right thru ceramic tiles)..     hho reacts with what its burning from what ive read and takes on the properties of what it burned as posted above....

Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2007, 05:31:35 AM »
It is about heat propagation  not heat produced . There is little propagation in an HHO explosion or implosion   but the plasma thing that is a different thing all together.


I think a good candidate for such and engine to start out  as for piston type might be an oil less air compressor motor. If you did a car engine or 2 stroke or 4 stroke  made for fuel you will need to not only replace the rings but also the bearing to run in a no oil situation. So  sealing up a 2 stroker might be a way to go and for big stuff the Detroit Diesel 2 stroker

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2007, 05:31:35 AM »
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Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2007, 05:32:18 AM »
ok  nother thought.  can you turn water into hho with low voltage at high frequency at a fast enough rate to diassociate the water... or would you need something similar to stan meyers hv diassociation to be able to make hho fast enough.  this needs testing also  im pretty sure its gonna need to be hv low amp  

nother thought.  stan meyers used "stainless steel wire"  right....   what if he used nichrome wire inside of this ceramic in his injector to act as a resistor and to heat the injector to expand the hho gases as they disassociated.  we can have steam and hho in the same space right.    and vacum allows water to boil at lower temperature.  

just ideas...

Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2007, 05:36:09 AM »
EDIT didnt think about oilless air compresors. lol didnt read your post right ......imo you couldnt even use a air compressor motor, its still lubricated by oil.   this engine cannot have oil in the cylinder(or whatever type of reaction chamber you have) at all, it will interfere with the reaction.  all we can have in here is hho and water.  or else we will have contaminated water, either left in the chamber or collecting in your cell if you choose to use an outside source of hho.

do oilless air compressors use a oil catch or are they teflon lubed?
ive never taken one apart

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2007, 05:36:09 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2007, 05:47:30 AM »
Read back again . There are alot of ways I think to  do this I will start with the nematic cylinder .

Offline s_c_engineering

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2007, 05:47:33 AM »
sweet, be safe.  what are you going to use for an injector?  or are you going to try to feed hho into it?

Offline IronHead

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2007, 05:51:25 AM »
First I have to figure out why I got an implosion lol then  do it over and over till stable .
there are so many ways to do this . But to start I would inject the hho through a manual valve .If  I get the recipe right . And i think I know whats happening . will do more tomorrow.

Offline hkyle

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Re: HHO Implosion Engine Study
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2007, 05:55:52 AM »
ya you might want to figure out first what makes the gas implode, might reinvent the 30 odd 6.....

 

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