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Author Topic: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked  (Read 17593 times)

Offline angryScientist

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The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« on: June 18, 2007, 05:19:52 PM »
How is this one? A free energy system.

On the bottom of the ocean split water into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis.

Have a cable that wraps a round a pulley on the ocean floor and also one on the surface. Have bags or containers attached to the cable. Fill the containers with the hydrogen or oxygen.

As the filled containers float to the surface they will pull the cable up with them. One of the ends of the pulley system is connected to a generator to produce electrical power.

At the surface the hydrogen and oxygen are removed from the containers and fed into a fuel cell to recover most of the electricity consumed in the electrolysis process. The electricity from the fuel cells is then shipped back down to the ocean floor to produce more hydrogen and oxygen. Only a small amount of electricity need be added to over come the inefficiencies of the fuel cell.

The depth of the water will determine the amount of excess power generated.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TheOne

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 05:23:59 PM »
indeed but not everyone have a ocean in their backyard ;)

Offline angryScientist

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 05:33:17 PM »
That's true, I live in the mountains.

It could be done in a long pipe also. If you have a good imagination then there could be all sorts of variations on this beautifully simple idea.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 05:33:17 PM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 06:28:58 PM »
Indeed, the idea is simple and beautiful but unfortunately it?s not working. It takes more electrical energy for electrolysis at high pressure (i.e the bottom of the ocean) that at atmospheric pressure.

Tinu

Offline Duranza

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 07:16:24 PM »
Now if it was a vaccum isntead of pressure... that would work....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 07:16:24 PM »
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Offline angryScientist

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2007, 07:36:43 PM »
Quote
"Can Electrolysis of water occurr while the water is under extreme pressure":

Yes, it can. All that is required is a little bit more voltage to drive the
electrolysis, and cell and electrode materials that can handle the
pressure!

It is actually rather surprising how little extra voltage is needed. It is
described by the Nernst equation (any electrochemistry or physical
chemistry textbook). It works out that only about 0.1 volt more is needed
to electrolyse water in a 200 atmosphere environment than in a 1 atmosphere
environment.


Offline tinu

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 07:44:29 PM »
And the quote above continues as follows:

?However, at those extreme pressures, the fluids water, hydrogen,
and oxygen would all be supercritical, so they would remain dissolved
together in a single supercritical phase. I suspect that under those
conditions the hydrogen and oxygen would react to re-form water as they
diffused back together. I doubt that the experiment would be feasible for a
number of practical reasons."

Tinu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 07:44:29 PM »
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Offline angryScientist

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 08:04:57 PM »
I believe that the density would change and it still may work.

Good eye though. I think I like this forum.

Even if it wouldn't work at the bottom of an ocean for some reason it could work at lesser depth.

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 08:19:23 PM »
from the ELSA thread. Posted by member wizkycho.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 08:19:23 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Offline angryScientist

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 03:20:18 AM »
Thank you ResinRat2 and FreeEnergy. Very good pointers. Now I'm not sure if I should continue with this thread or contribute to the other.

Anyway, since this idea is only a couple of days old to me I am still finding loads of good info.

"The critical pressure of a substance is the pressure required to liquefy a gas at its critical temperature."
Some critical pressures:
Hydrogen: 12.97atm
Oxygen: 49.77atm
Water: 217.7atm

I calculate that hydrogen will reach it's critical pressure under about 415ft. of water.

That said, I still don't think that that matters too much because the specific gravity of liquid hydrogen (@ 1atm) is .0710. That is much lighter than water.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 03:20:18 AM »
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Offline angryScientist

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2007, 05:00:16 AM »
I made a mistake in my calculation of 415ft. I forgot to take into consideration the temperature.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n225/abebarker/HydrogenPhasediag.jpg)

With the temperature taken into account I calculate it would take about 3 miles of water to make the hydrogen change phase.

That make this whole idea a little more appealing.

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2007, 07:50:19 AM »
test time?

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2007, 09:07:40 AM »
I made a mistake in my calculation of 415ft. I forgot to take into consideration the temperature.

With the temperature taken into account I calculate it would take about 3 miles of water to make the hydrogen change phase.

That make this whole idea a little more appealing.

Not to nay-say but as long as you're taking water temp in to account, you should
know that the higher the temperature of the water the weaker the hydrogen bond.
So you're using a lot more energy to crack/heat the cold water and the heat well
of an ocean is too big for me to describe with numbers... So you'll lose most of
"Gibbs free energy" in your high pressure low temp electrolysis, and give up an
unimaginable ammount of energy as waste heat. The question would be how much
bouency would be required to overcome the resistance of all those emptys on
their way down along with the questions of electrode erosion in a ion rich solution.

Lots of factors to take in to account...
~Dingus Mungus

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The simplest free energy system ever overlooked
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2007, 09:15:00 AM »
depending on the material of the "buckets" a neutral bouyant material wieght at mid span would proly be the most eff. given the fact that you have to lift the wieght back up. At least the down traveling side would be an overal neutral effect on the system. Also kids remeber the temp differential at the bottom of the sea, its not coldest at the bottom, but at a layer that floats above the bottom, another one of waters interesting characteristics, it the conveyor system crossed the Boundary Layer it might just get the eff. to be feaseable. Better yet just put the electroyisizer near a heat vent on the ocean floor, best of both worlds heat to aid the reaction and cold high density in close prox to get high bouyancy. Like they say in realestate "location, location, location"

 

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