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Author Topic: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results  (Read 29007 times)

Offline oouthere

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Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« on: June 15, 2007, 07:05:58 AM »
  Just info on the rotoverter I've started.  The motor is a remanufactured 7.5 hp unknown model with squeeky bearings.  It is a 230/460vac, 3450rpm motor wired for 460 but run with 121VAC line voltage.  I am using mainly new capacitors but a couple are old. These are the MFDs:  3, 4, 5, 7.5, 10, 30, 50, 149.  The motor takes about 5-10 seconds to spin-up using the 149 as a start capacitor and then switching it out.  I built a test bank with STDP switches to completely isolate the caps during testing.  The motor was allowed to stablize for about 30 seconds to a minute before accumalating the data.  Some of the measurements would bounce alot so I took the highest and lowest that read on the amp meter (2% accuracy on 40 amp scale) at least three times in 30 seconds.  Here are the results:

mfd    amps

  0     1.5
  3     1.4
  4     1.8
  5     1.7
  7.5  1.6 to 1.5
  8     1.6
  10.5 1.5
  11.5 1.55
  12    1.53
  12.5 1.27 to 1.45
  13    1.29 to 1.38
  14    1.28 to 133
  15    1.24 to 138
  17    1.24 to 1.34
  17.5 1.16 to 13
  19    1.07 to 1.22
  20.5  .98 to 1.19
  21.5  .86 to 1.07
  22.5  .86 to 1.02
  24.5  .82 to 1.02
  25.5  .88 to 1.02
  26.5  .8 to .84
  29.5  .77 to .96
  30     .76 to .86
  33     .77 to .87
  34     .78 to .82
  35     .8 to .86
  37     .88 to .94
  38     .93 to .94
  39     .97 to 1.04
  40     1.04 to 1.06

  Best run is .82amps x 121VAC = 99.22 VA

  I have a 12KW generator head but it is to large for such a small motor to drive for a load.  I bought a 1200 watt generator just for the head but the crankshaft is also the generator head shaft so that's a no go also.  I do have an old 3.5 compressor motor that uses caps for starting....does anyone know if anything special would have to be done in order to use this as a generator head?  Any ideas that do not cost a lot of money and are easily adaptable will be greatly appreciated  :)

  Rich

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 01:42:36 PM »
Have you tried Frequency driving you RV yet?, it can reach up to a higher Hose power this way and maybe drive some thing near that, this way (Freq driving) the ZPE pulse width modulation states come in handy

Search on this compilation for frequency drives
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/RV%20energy%20saving%20applications%20and%20R%20and%20D.pdf

Regards
AShtweth

Offline oouthere

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 05:40:43 AM »
No, I've been using commercial 120VAC @ 60hz.  From what I've read you should be able to make it work on straight line voltage.  I did buy a rebuilt 84% effeciency Baldor 5hp, 1800 rpm motor for the generator that is coupled 1:1.  I have not built my load circuit (100 watt bulbs) yet but this is pretty fun.

Rich

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 05:40:43 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 06:36:32 AM »
@oouthere

Good work. Once you have your cap bank on switches, life is so easy.

Here is a picture of my set-up I have been testing off and on the RV from DC-DC motors in loop, to AC-DC in loop, AC-Alternator now my next one is the AC-AC.

What is the rpm rating of your 12kva motor at that voltage. If it is low enough, you could try 2:1 or even 3:1 gear ratio.

My next tests will be with a very very larger coupler to give the prime mover some added inertia to fight against the drag.

I have tested with a 5ph leeson running a 108 amp alternator which I have simply modified the regulator to be able to apply the excitation voltage myself. The alternator won. There is too much drag and the prime mover starts heating up, even if you try other cap configurations.

The main problem with RV is it will be good under light loads but when you start asking more, it lacks the torque. From 5ph the RV renders the motor around 1.8hp or even less I am sure.

My capacitor bank holds 15 caps with 17 switches. Switch 1 is the main, swithches 2-9 are bank 1, switch 11 is bank 2 main, switches 12-17 are bank 2. This allows you to quickly find the start values, and when the motor runs full you can switch this side off and use the others as run cap.


Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 07:50:11 AM »
Guys don't forget the extraction circuit you can use on your prime mover (tested in France and working to charge a secondary battery for free) or (untested) on your alternator.

there are step by step instructions on the RV peswiki page or in the compilations on this page, please sign the petition for now energy wastage in 1.8horpower motors and support the RV, its as easy as name email country thanks, helps us help you.

Peswiki RV
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Rotoverter

Support the RV here and Sign the no energy wastage
Petitions- http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/RotoVerter.htm

neon

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 07:50:11 AM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 10:09:14 PM »
Hi Oouthere, and congrats on the work you have done so far. You may be able to find a local model engineer to build a new shaft and bearings for your generator , maybe for nothing if you can "sell" him the idea of this technology. AC motors are not easy to use as generators, but not impossible either. I would say you need a generator capable of at least 300 watts. Look around your local scrapyard. A big DC motor , preferrably a permanent magnet one would be ideal. You may or may not have to use gears, or pulleys as a speed changer. You could load the generator with filament lamps or heavy resistance wire to calculate its output. The motors from scrap electric scooters are OK but rarely exceed 200 watts, and need high RPM.
          A cheap alternative would be to build a "pony brake" and measure the output as Horse Power, and cnvert it into watts. Cheap to make,accurate results. Let us Know how it goes. My business allows me little time to play, but at least I can encourage do-ers like yourself.                                             Neptune

Offline oouthere

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2007, 03:52:29 AM »
  Hi Guys,

  Thanks for the encouragement as it really helps when beating your head on the wall!  Wattsup, great job on the switches!  I didn't think far enough ahead to buy two sets of caps so.....

  I've bought out all of the switches at our local Home Depot and electronics store so the second test bank has not been started yet.

  The 12KW generator head can either be wired for 120 or 240 and is rated at 1800 rpm.  This is an industrial size head at perhaps 350lbs so it would be asking a lot for 1.8hp to budge it around.

  As soon as I get a good understanding of the basic components and interactions I'll look into building the extraction circuit....this is a ladder for me so one step at a time.

 
  Rich

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2007, 03:52:29 AM »
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Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2007, 04:13:06 AM »
Note- a sugesiton from Rain

To avoid bigger bangs and death of course such box has to be properly
isolated, also the switches need to be of high quality and switch
knobs als very well isolated. The switches should be able to withstand
quite high peak currents and voltages(possible inductive kicks of
several hundred volts or even thousands volts). The caps inside the
box should have proper 1-10Mohm bleed resistors to bleed off the
residual voltage in disconnected state. This avoids the situation when
at switch turn-on the cap voltage from previous disconnect is say
-300V and you turn it on at the exact moment when the grids voltage is
+300V =>> this results then a very big inrush current to the cap and
possibly the melting of poor switch contacts or weak wires

Offline wattsup

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2007, 04:06:26 AM »
@ashtweth_nihilisti

Thanks for the heads up on the security issue.

@oouthere

If your 12kva generator runs at 1800 rpm and your prime mover runs at 3450 rpm, you can try to find a 2:1 ratio oil filled bevel gear (not worm gear) or belt drives and run it that way. The PM will be forcing much less  and at that size generator you are bound to hit pay dirt at one point, as long as you do not ask to much from the generator.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2007, 04:06:26 AM »
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Offline oouthere

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2007, 06:18:57 AM »
I have to admit it has been tempting to place the 7.5hp on the 12kw head.  I'll continue my current course as I managed to liberate another 9 switches from Home Depot (crying in the boxes they were!).  I'm so far away from a city while at work it isn't even funny....it's tough finding parts!

I installed the new switches and have about 1/2 of the wiring completed.  Perhaps I can find the caps tomorrow, finish the wiring and get an initial load test this weekend.

It seems mandatory to get a 1kw head!  They are only using a 2hp engine so it would seem the 7.5hp would be able to pull the full load but probably closer to 110VAC instead of 120VAC plus we'd be losing a few hertz as well.  It's all good though!

Rich

Offline oouthere

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 02:45:41 AM »
Well, I got the initial load results (6 100 watt bulbs) and I'm no where near o/u or even "u".

Rich

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 02:45:41 AM »
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Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2007, 03:40:14 AM »
Rich, it depends on what application you are trying to utilize.

ATM you have the most efficient .8-1.8 horse power motor in the world, which can idle on the smell of a rag and give you more power on demand (energy savings).

If you wish to extract electrical resonance, then you need an extraction circuit, the latest one reported as working is by an open sourced engineer in France.

This is the NEON switching circuit, and only requires the prime mover to work. circuit cost 19.95$




Offline helmut

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 01:44:35 PM »
Rich, it depends on what application you are trying to utilize.

ATM you have the most efficient .8-1.8 horse power motor in the world, which can idle on the smell of a rag and give you more power on demand (energy savings).

If you wish to extract electrical resonance, then you need an extraction circuit, the latest one reported as working is by an open sourced engineer in France.

This is the NEON switching circuit, and only requires the prime mover to work. circuit cost 19.95$

Hello  ashtweth_nihilisti

Can you help out with further information on that circuit.
Perhaps it is compatible with other Projekts on the Board

helmut

Offline wattsup

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 05:21:34 PM »
@ashtweth_nihili

Do you mean as shown on this web page?
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Rotoverter
Under the heading "Power Extraction from Resonance".

If yes, the proponent of this indicates as follows;
"easy to apply to RV alternator as well -> this could be an easier way to get OU at single phase resonance"

Notice he says "single phase resonance" for a single phase alternator, but most alternators, mine included are three phase ac output passing triple rectified bridge to 12vdc. He also used the word "could" which implies also "could not".

@oouthere

Can you re-cap what you did and if you can put up a photo of your set-up?
Under PM fully loaded condition, what is the amperage?
What happens when you remove one bulb at a time from the grid?
Do you know that is many instances, you have to put the start cap back on when the Prime Mover is under load.

Start PM - Start cap on and run cap on
Idle PM - Start cap off and run cap on
Loaded PM - Start cap on and run cap on or off

And at Loaded PM, you may have to play around with the caps to maintain PM  rotation otherwise it will begin to slow down and eventually stop. Also, watch out if the PM starts to heat up.

Here are two photos of some DC-DC tests (non-RV) I had done a little while back. Again here I was losing about .1 volts every 10 minutes. Won't get into this much deeper because it is pointless.

wattsup

Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Rotoverter Initial Idle Results
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 02:31:47 AM »
Hello stefan and all,

okay maybe best to post this set up in RVreplicaiton yahoo groups then pst the answers back here, they can give more experienced technical advice, that set up can be improved please post you results there ;D

here is the Neon attached

if you find the Rv useful please help by signing a petition for non energy wastage, its as easy as and email and country
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/RotoVerter.htm

 

OneLink