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Solid States Devices => TPU replications => Topic started by: mrd10 on June 12, 2007, 11:12:47 AM

Title: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 12, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
Hi All,

Jasons too excited it's late, 5 in the morning and what weve witnessed is amazing.
There were 7 of us conferenced call tonight, This was including Roberto, who worked very closely with Otto.
This is not a joke , The power is real.
The globe you'll see light up bright when we mixed 2 frequencies only, we saw power supply voltage go back into the power supply, in other words the power supply was reading 44volts now and the current draw fell down to 300mA's, The globe is a 110volt, 40 watt globe.

Im too ecstatic myself, seeing this thing work, just no words to describe it.
Jason will be posting soon.

I've attached Picture of Jasons TPU, there's not much in the construction as you can see.

kind Rgds,

Dom


Edit from admin: the PDF file documentation of Otto?s and Roberto?s TPU-ECD experiments
can be found here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2383.0;attach=9524

Here's a short movie done by Jason and 2 pics of the TPU:-
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 12, 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Hello Everyone,

I have been up all night long working on this TPU replication and I finally got some positive results!

Listen. YOU NEED TO FOLLOW OTTO's DIAGRAM AND REPLICATE THIS THING!!! IT WORKS!!

I was in a big conference call with Roberto, Rosphere, GK, Moab, Cavetronics, Gn0stik, mrd10, and C0mster. We were playing with a single frequency sweeping from about 1 kHz up to 500 kHz. What we did was monitor the voltage output on the collector across a clear, 40W 110V light bulb. Once we got in the 80 kHz frequency range, we began to see the filament on the bulb glow red.

As I we continued the frequency sweep, the bulb would glow brighter and dimmer as we hit various "sweet spots." Everyone watched the waveforms and brightness of the bulb on my webcam; Cavetronics took screen shots as we found the nodes, and Moab took the input voltage, current, and frequency measurements down as we went along.

After tweaking the first frequency, we found that 176.6 kHz made the bulb glow the brightest.

Keep in mind that I HAD TO SHIELD THE COIL while testing! When I first turned on the coil Without The Shield, it threw off lots of RF energy all over my room, bugged up my USB cables which turned off my camera and made my keyboard and mouse stop working! I also could FEEL the effects of the RF discharges. It was the same feelings that Giantkiller posted earlier about his GK4. Please make sure you protect yourself when you experiment, this is, by far, not a toy!

Anyway, to continue, We decided to choose 80 kHz for the second frequency because we had found a good sweet spot there in the early test. The idea was to pick the three frequencies such that they fell on the train of sweet spots that we found.

That was a big mistake.....

When I turned on both frequencies at the same time, I got this GIANT flash as the bulb grew very bright! It also shot out a large (what felt like) shock wave! Whats even better is that I have it all on video!!

You can find it attached in mrd10's post along with some photos of my desk setup on this post (with the screen shield).

More to come in a few more minutes...

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 12, 2007, 11:25:33 AM
Jason & all:

Looks like you're the mad professor in the 'Back to the future movie!'. All those lightning flashes and eerie RF! Must be exciting.

btw, can you tell us mortals what is that shiled you showed in the photo? Looks like window screen to me?

Good job and post some more!

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 11:39:57 AM
Wow Jason very nice !
I wish I had seen it too on Sykpe !

How many people can participate on Skype ?

Can Sykpe support many simultaneous video webcam feeds,
so you can see all yourself each other ?

Jason,
I hope you can post more videos please !;)
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 11:57:17 AM
Hi Jason,
what  about was the input power to your device,
when you hit the right frequencies and the bulb lighted up this bright ?

Did you use a power supply or a 12 Volts battery for the input power ?

Rainer on the German thread suggested to use a 12 Volt Battery, so
that the RF from the device will not jam the power supply and more exact measurements
could be taken to determine the input power.

I am very glad you have now stumbled onto the right effects.

Keep on going.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 12, 2007, 11:56:45 AM
Hello all,

@Roberto

exact the same feeling.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 12, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
Hello again,

I just want to report something else strange here. When taking the power input measurements, we did not take into account the fact that the TPU was feeding power back into my power supply!

The power supply I am using is capable of outputting 30VDC at 6A MAX. For all of my tests, I had it set on 12V according to the PDF file posted by Otto and Roberto. When I hit the sweet spots, the voltage would rise up as far as 20V with an average current draw of about 800 mA. I will be releasing a PDF file soon showing all of the displayed power output values read off the PS display along with the scope shots. We just need to sort through all the notes and photos.

I do have one more video to share with you all which I think you will love. After 'primimg' my TPU with the the two frequencies mentioned in my last post, I was able to light the 40W bulb to its Full Brightness off the the TPU ONLY on the 176.6 kHz frequency alone! It was as if the TPU had some kind of memory and kept lighting up consistently the bulb!

After achieving this, my next goal was to quantify the input and output power. After looking at the power supply, I realized right away that the input voltage and current it was showing me was wrong! It was telling me that I was supplying 42VDC at over 7A into the coil!!! My PS doesn't even put out that much power! So to double check the display, I connected an analog voltage meter across the power supply inputs and added a digital ammeter in series with the positive lead coming from the power supply to quantify the input power.

When I reran the test, I found that the voltage on the voltmeter read 31VDC and the current started off at about 1.5A and started dropping the longer the light bulb stayed on! But yet the bulb's brightness stayed the same!

You will be able to see all of this clearly in the demonstration video. mrd10 uploaded it to Google Video for your viewing pleasure.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584

We hope to more formally document these experiments and will post a PDF soon. As for me, it is past 6:00AM here and I haven't even been to sleep yet so I'm going to crash for now. We will post more information as it is compiled.

@bob.rennips: I used mic4427BC chips for my MOSFET drivers along with the IRF840 MOSFETs. They work great and gave me an average rise time of 43ns.

God Bless,
Jason O

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 12, 2007, 12:11:57 PM
Hi Jason!

I just watched that video and when the full brightness came on it made me jump backwards in my chair.  Whats amazing is that it's dim with one freq, and dim with just the other, but mix them and bam!  And thats with only two, not with the 3rd!  Holy Shit!  I know its hard to say when the room is dark and a bright light comes on, the camera adjusts and the light can look much brigther, but we couldnt even see the fillament anymore, so...

However, Dom said that the bulb was a 40 watt 110v and the power supply was saying 44v 300mA.

So at max brightness, which the bulb probably wasn't, the bulb draws 363mA.

With 44v and 300mA thats 13.2 watts from the power supply and I dont suppose the bulb was fully on, but it did look bright!  Waiting for your full measurements!  Can't wait to know more.


Regards,

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 12, 2007, 12:11:18 PM
Hello All,

The Google video link that was posted didn't contain the whole thing, I just fixed it now: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tishatang on June 12, 2007, 12:18:57 PM
Jason and all,

How exciting!

Interesting in that my very first post back in April '06,  I figured a freq around 180khz would be used.
Partial quote:


 "Here is my take on what Steven Mark has kindly decided to give of his time.  Of course I am just a        musician, I could be way off target?

The heart of the generator is three coils next to each other.  The primary coil is part of a tank circuit that is tuned to oscillate around 180,000 hertz.  This is the supposedly natural frequency of magnetism as per Coler device or MRA, if my memory serves me right?"


Guess the old musician still has some intuition left.  Hopefully I can watch the progress from China.  I leave Aug 22.

Otto and Roberto and All
Job well done and just the beginning!

Tishatang


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 12, 2007, 12:31:15 PM
Thanks Jason,

Looks like we posted at the same moment, so please ignore my comments.

Going to watch the other video now!


Great work!


Regards,

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 12:34:50 PM
Jason,
great video documentation !
Many thanks for this !

Hmm, it seems the RF pulses jams your power supply.

Do you also have an anolog ampmeter ?

Please try to get one, as you can not be sure, if the current
is really this low..
As the RF could also jam your digital ampmeter right now
you could just put a 100 nF cap directly across the input plugs at the digital
ampmeter, so the RF will not jam it...and only the DC current will
be measured...

Also it would be much better to try to use a 12 Volt battery in parallel with some
electrolyte capacitors and foil capacitors as the power source and use a lowpassfilter
before going into the TPU, so you can measure input power directly at the battery before the low pass filter,
where you still have a steady DC current.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 12, 2007, 12:37:33 PM
Jason,

You could try placing the power supply outside the sheild and just have the TPU inside to see if that helps give the same readings on the suppy as on your meters.

Anyway, I am sure you have much to do and I eagerly await more readings later!


Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 12, 2007, 12:40:40 PM
@Jacob,

I have had time only now to read your post.

I've no words: T H A N K

and best luck to the many guys who are now succesfully replicating ECD.

SORRY TO SAY but remember: ECD IS REALLY DANGEROUS...never forget it

Sincerely

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 12:46:28 PM
Hi Jason,
you might link from your google video directly to this thread over here,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.0.html

so people on google will find it more quickly,
but I also linked it now directly on the homepage now under
Newsflash:

Many thanks again for your hard work and your gorgeous results.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 12:55:09 PM
Hi Jason,
what also might help is this, so your power supply does not get jammed by the RF:


PS_output_positive:-->ampmeter----->lowpass coil L----->|-------> input toTPU-ECD
................................................................................|
................................................................................|
................................................................................|
..............................................................................-----
..............................................................................----- lowpass capacitor
................................................................................|
................................................................................|
................................................................................|
groundline__________________________________________|________>ground input to TPU-ECD


Please try it this way.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 12, 2007, 01:07:30 PM
HI Stefan,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely set that up when I have time. For now. Here's a screen shot of the scope when it was running in the video. There was definitely a lot of hash...

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 01:12:47 PM
Thanks Jason for the scopeshot,
where is the groundline in this scopeshot ?
At the bottom ?

Is there just coming out positive voltage ?
No negative going voltages ?

P.S. You might want to use at least 3 lowpassfilters in series before
going into the TPU, so your lowpass frequency is around 0.1 Hz or less,
so you have a stable amp and voltage reading at the power supply.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 01:26:23 PM
Rainer has posted a measurement proposal in the German language thread,
where you might still add the lowpassfilter I posted above.

Here is his GIF pic schematic.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1848.msg34866.html#msg34866
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 12, 2007, 01:44:57 PM
@Jason

I wonder how your TPU-ECD would respond to a bank of AA LiMH rechargable batteries configured for 12VDC output. It seems as the Mobius collector coil begins to pump energy that it will eventually begin throwing power back into the batteries and keep them recharged.

If you can run a 40W light bulb to full brightness for a little while with just a few AA batteries in the setup, then that would be quite impressive.

You would then possibly be at the door step to a free-running device.

Regards,
Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 12, 2007, 02:09:39 PM
@Jason,
Great results for 2 frequencies - you just need to prove your input power.

When I did my mosfet tests last night at around 1MHz I also noticed voltage fluctuations on the PSU, except I think mine went down, but I cannot be sure.
I think Stefan is correct and you need to totally isolate the PSU using inductors and capacitors from the TPU.
My PSU is rated 30V at 2.5A but can go to 3A and 33V, this is the very first test for the PSU I did - full load 33V x 3A = 100W.

Another thing you could do is to add another lamp in parrallel.

@Robby,
You read my mind, some AA size Nickle-metal-hydride batteries, 9-10 off should be OK for 0.5A at 1.2V each.


Bypass capacitors:
See page 6 for the recommended capacitors for high frequency gate drive.
http://www.ixysrf.com/pdf/driver_ICs/DEIC420.pdf
0.01uF x 8
0.47uF x 4
4.7uF x 4

Regards
Rob
Title: Power Supply Lock-Up
Post by: Earl on June 12, 2007, 02:15:06 PM
Hi Jason, hi All,

One thing to be careful about is that either RF or X-Energy gets into your power supply and causes the pass transistor to fully conduct.  This could easily cause the output voltage to climb to 40+ Volts, even though the regulation circuit with its potentiometer adjust can never reach this high.

I strongly suggest using a battery to replace the power supply.  At the ends of the battery leads where they reach your circuitry, you should have at least three parallel C's, an Electrolytic, and two disc ceramics each a different value, like 1nF and 100nF.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: nong on June 12, 2007, 02:27:57 PM
Hi Jason,

Wow...... :o

Im next....    :P




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 12, 2007, 03:04:11 PM
Hi All,

@ Jason

I understand the point of using LC filters to choke/shunt away RF back surges that would "frak" with your power supply.

I may be in the minority here on my next point...

For the test run on the ECD using a bank of AA rechargeable batteries to replace the PS, I would not want any LC filters in the circuit that would block and shunt away the power pump coming back from the Mobius collector. I would want the Mobius to attenuate I-flow and eventually reverse flow power back into the batteries to recharge them as the Mobius is powering the load (40W light bulb). The batteries are just chemical capacitors used to kick start the device. After the magnetic turbine effect is up to speed and pumping energy from the vacuum, the batteries may then be irrelevant.

If you can demonstrate a 40W light bulb operating for say... maybe 10 minutes... at full brightness and the AA batteries all stay at full charge, then you will have one heck of a demonstration to cheer about.

Eventually a setup can be made where the battery bank is replaced by a bank of capacitors that are kick started by a strong magnet across a coil.

See the video about anomalous continuous charging of a capacitor by a magnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iGEsVaIftk

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 12, 2007, 03:15:18 PM
Jason,

Thank you and Great Job!  The video's were awesome and will one day be classics for the TPU history.

I look forward to the .pdf and further experimentation.

Historic events are made up of historic people, and we have such a group of us assembled together, for such a time as this...!

Thank you for the safety information about the screening.  We will be using that technique now before starting my own experiments.

Psalm 150:6     ;)
Bruce 
Title: Stupid Bulls*it
Post by: Earl on June 12, 2007, 03:18:25 PM
I have never seen in my 40+ Engineering years such absolute garbage.
This is as low as you can go on the IQ scale.
This idea should win the Nobel prize for STUPIDITY!
Regards, Earl
See the video about anomalous continuous charging of a capacitor by a magnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iGEsVaIftk
Robby
Title: Only referring to You Tube video with capacitor charging
Post by: Earl on June 12, 2007, 03:21:37 PM
Just to make sure there is no confusion, I am not refering to Jason's video, but to the magnet and mV capacitor charging.
Earl
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 12, 2007, 03:33:23 PM
Earl,

Go look at the SM video's of the TPU. SM started them by placing magnets on his device. Our goal is to replicate SM's deivice, self contained, free-running with no harmful RF emissions and no need for shields.

For this research to progress, you may have to let go of your old ideas taught to you by the orthodox high priests of electromagnetic dogma. The world is not flat and the sun does not orbit the earth.

Just pay attention to the SM videos and think about what could possibly be the reason why a magnet placed on the unit by SM would make it start?

I take no offense at your cries about "stupidity". This research fundamentally demands a questioning attitude of all our postulates and theorems about electromagnetic phenomena.

The orthodox have always cried heresy against pioneers and their new ideas that forced paradigm change.

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 12, 2007, 03:40:23 PM
@Rob,

please find attached preliminary DDS control Requirements
Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 12, 2007, 03:42:41 PM
Hello all,

@Robby,

a looooong time ago I posted that the 2 magnets are closing the contacts of reed relays. The TPU is a self runner. This means that its always working. Now imagine you have to make somewhere a demonstration and have to bring the TPU with you. Its raining for example.....the TPU is working......

Maybe Im totally wrong, we all will see in the future.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 12, 2007, 04:17:30 PM
Otto,

Yes Im almost certain that it is the case as well.

We are all at the gate, thanks to many but Otto is top of the class.

Im looking foward to refinement that will make this process safe happening here.
Please Can I ask that nobody goes to media about this.

It will happen but the later the better.

Nobody will believe you...familiar?

STEPHAN. WHO GETS THE PRIZE?

I recomend either Steven or Otto 

Just being cheeky............




Good times...be very very careful...all

Lindsay
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 12, 2007, 04:18:27 PM
Otto,

Im looking foward to refinement that will make this process safe happening here.
Please Can I ask that nobody goes to media about this.


the best way to keep it free is for the club to patent it and then never enforce or exercize any patent rights.

a patent only gives one the right to sue for infringement, you can state on a website to the public that no suits will be filed for infringement for private use or something to that effect.   

That and of course posting it to the world at large.

i agree keep it free or at least keep it away from the corporations.

That and we ALL know it was a group effort here on this forum with otto being the leader of the pack so if there is an unscrupulous corporation who tries to undermine you guys work i am sure we can all get together to file a class action suit to prevent any corporation from patenting it privately.

just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 12, 2007, 04:22:51 PM
Hello all,

@Robby,

a looooong time ago I posted that the 2 magnets are closing the contacts of reed relays. The TPU is a self runner. This means that its always working. Now imagine you have to make somewhere a demonstration and have to bring the TPU with you. Its raining for example.....the TPU is working......

Maybe Im totally wrong, we all will see in the future.

Otto

Hey guys way to go!  congratulations on your progress on this project!

One thing that would really convince me it is producing useable power is if you put a bridge rectifier on the output with smoothing filter caps and a known load to get an absolute "true" RMS reading of the output with both a scope and meter and this would be especially convincing if no power were connected to it :)    By testing it this way it rules out any integration scepticisms.

wtg guys!

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 12, 2007, 04:47:19 PM
Hello all,

@Kokomoj0

Heeeeej, you missed something!!!! Its already done by our master!!!!!

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 12, 2007, 04:48:19 PM
The initial docomunt specifies that this is not patentable and that is open source. This public excution can guarantee that. Besides, let them stop us. This technology is the most dangerous on the planet while at the same time the most advantegious for the good of mankind. What are they goning to do? close down all Radio shacks? LOL

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Super God on June 12, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
I'm sure you can release it under some GPL license or something.  Even if they do patent it, it won't do much good seeing as the directions to make one are right here.  :D

Have a great day.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 12, 2007, 04:57:21 PM
Hello all,

@Kokomoj0

Heeeeej, you missed something!!!! Its already done by our master!!!!!

Otto

i do hope you filter that otto and do a true rms test on it for us.  that is if you need an input source rectify and filter it as well as the output.  Filtered DC is the god of measurements.

as you all know, marks failed to convince me it really does what he claims.   passing a very simple true rms test would inspire me to wind one frankly.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 12, 2007, 04:58:38 PM
The initial docomunt specifies that this is not patentable and that is open source. This public excution can guarantee that. Besides, let them stop us. This technology is the most dangerous on the planet while at the same time the most advantegious for the good of mankind. What are they goning to do? close down all Radio shacks? LOL

--giantkiller.

thats the kool thing about knowledge!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 12, 2007, 05:08:33 PM
Hi Roberto,
The first bit of the spec. is fine.
The freq. increments are 0.1Hz minimum but I can default to 1Hz steps.
The frequencies are all asynchronous, I cannot see how you can sync them.
Maybe fine tuning the phase perhaps.
What we can do is use one freq. gen and 3 high speed decade counters to do a divide by 1 to 10.
I am not sure if its possible to synchronise 2 different frequencies even driven from the same master clock.  The frequency is a fraction of master clock and there is a phase shift option.
I may need to ask Analog devices by email if this is possible.

Regards
Rob


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 12, 2007, 05:18:35 PM
Hi.

Well done to all !

Giantkiller - Mystified re comments about danger - is there a link I can read up on that? Is it just the RF / em radiation you mean - or something else?

Q: does this have hallmarks of Steve Marks device?

1. stops if turned over (= will not start or runs poorly if on edge vertical)
2. the ring material gets hot

If these are both so - here is an interesting test. Put a plate of water say 100cm or so, vertically below the flat ring e.g. on floor. Have a thermometer in it. If the ring is operated for a long period, does the water temp rise? Now repeat with new water but placed horizontally the same distance to the side.

My guess -

a) nothing happens OR
b) the water below gets warmer and the water to one side does not.

(I am fishing to see if gravity may be involved as a power source, although this is not a definitive expt.)

Sorry if my comments make little sense - been looking elsewhere of late and not following every thread here.

steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 12, 2007, 05:20:26 PM
I'm eager to start winding once I see some confirmation of the initial results with RMS input current readings taken along the lines already suggested using filters and a 12V battery as the power source.  
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 12, 2007, 05:28:24 PM
Hi Rob,

I see your point. There is as always at least a nice way around. For the synchronous operation just use DDS SW to preset correctly a programmable hardware synchronous counter. You could provide actually for the preset of 3 synchronous counter on the board. So clocking the 3 counters with the same master clock trough an enable signal we get just what we want.

What do you think about (of course there are many similar options...).

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 05:46:13 PM
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=712.0;attach=9562;image)

Marco, quite a nice Avator you have drawn ! ;)
Looks very nice !
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gaspo100 on June 12, 2007, 05:51:42 PM
The frequencies are all asynchronous, I cannot see how you can sync them.
Maybe fine tuning the phase perhaps.
If you are using AD9833 (10pin) DDS then you can synchronize multiple chips with this procedure:
1. stop the common clock to all DDS
2. program individual DDS to obtain required waveform, phase and frequency
3. send soft reset command to all DDS
4. enable the clock

Other DDS chips (ie. 18pin AD9834) have Reset pin that can be used for synchronization.

Peter
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 12, 2007, 06:22:57 PM
@kokomoj0

Otto and all of us on this Forum wants this to be in the public domain and formally publishing this document and 'records' of these on-line interactions together constitute "prior art" per the date of public records being kept. There is no need to even go any further.

Now, UEC or whichever SM assigned his invention to (if there was such a patent) had one year from the first public disclosure (1997?) to submit the invention to the patent office, after the one year period, his own invention constitutes prior art to himself and becomes public domain.

Also, even today, unless SM or UEC publicly disclosed their 'invention', we will never know if their "claims" are being thread upon by Otto's contraption of double mobius arrangements, etc. A patent is only as good as what is in the claims.

Anyway, welcome to the 'believers- club'! Membership is free. The only other requirement is to free your mind of previously conceived or previously taught orthodox ideas of how things can and must be done!

Peace

chrisC


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 12, 2007, 06:25:55 PM
Hi Peter,
Excellent news.

Are you sure that if all 3 DDS chips start with same master clock after a soft reset they will stay in Sync?
I can use a different DDS chip, it does not need to be the AD9833.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 12, 2007, 06:27:40 PM
I'm eager to start winding once I see some confirmation of the initial results with RMS input current readings taken along the lines already suggested using filters and a 12V battery as the power source.  

Yes well put.

These test results so far are inconlusive.

I was going to draw up a diagram illustrating how the test setup should be to minimize interference to the instruments and meters, but there are already a few suggestions covering most of what I was going to suggest.

One or both of the meters (standalone and PSU) are giving erroneous readings. We should not be jumping to the conclusion that it is the PSU that is the one in error, nor the meter, but human nature sways us to choose the lower of the two.

Suggest the following to minimize interference to both the PSU and meters:

12VBat-->voltmeter-->currentmeter-->LCFilter(x3)-->RFshield-->DUT

This plattering noise can wreak havoc with all digital meters, and is evidently occuring here.

On the other side of the coin (choosing the higher of the two possible readings), 42V X 3.6A = 150W, so of course the bulb will glow brightly. And 30V X 3.6A = 108W, still enough for a bright bulb.

The PSU is supposed to be capable of only 30V, but with noise wreaking havoc inside the PSU, it could be getting "fooled" into putting out much more. All PSU units start with a higher voltage to allow for regulation, and 42V would not be an unreasonable amount.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 12, 2007, 06:29:18 PM
Hi Rob:

Please count me in for a couple of your DDS boards when done. Much appreciate your role in this effort.

Regards

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 12, 2007, 06:37:58 PM
I'm eager to start winding once I see some confirmation of the initial results with RMS input current readings taken along the lines already suggested using filters and a 12V battery as the power source. 

Yes well put.

These test results so far are inconlusive.

I was going to draw up a diagram illustrating how the test setup should be to minimize interference to the instruments and meters, but there are already a few suggestions covering most of what I was going to suggest.

One or both of the meters (standalone and PSU) are giving erroneous readings. We should not be jumping to the conclusion that it is the PSU that is the one in error, nor the meter, but human nature sways us to choose the lower of the two.

Suggest the following to minimize interference to both the PSU and meters:

12VBat-->voltmeter-->currentmeter-->LCFilter(x3)-->RFshield-->DUT

This plattering noise can wreak havoc with all digital meters, and is evidently occuring here.

On the other side of the coin (choosing the higher of the two possible readings), 42V X 3.6A = 150W, so of course the bulb will glow brightly. And 30V X 3.6A = 108W, still enough for a bright bulb.

The PSU is supposed to be capable of only 30V, but with noise wreaking havoc inside the PSU, it could be getting "fooled" into putting out much more. All PSU units start with a higher voltage to allow for regulation, and 42V would not be an unreasonable amount.

Darren

I must agree with Darren.
It could be, that the meters are just getting fooled by the big RF spikes and that the
power supply put out really more.
So it was also very suspicious, that the digital ampmeter did show lower and lower
amps input but the light bulb stayed at the same brightness..

Hmm... Maybe just the batteries on this digital ampmeter were almost empty ?
Then these things also happen as I have experienced my self often when the
battery of the DVM is nearly empty...

As Jason seems not to have used any blocking caps and chokes as lowpassfilters
directly at the power supply, the current could have really been this big.
So my advice, never use digital meters with pulse measurements and only use
analog meters to measure the average input current and always use LC lowpassfilters before going into the circuit
and only measure the input infront of these LC lowpassfilters.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 12, 2007, 06:44:18 PM
I'm eager to start winding once I see some confirmation of the initial results with RMS input current readings taken along the lines already suggested using filters and a 12V battery as the power source. 

Yes well put.

These test results so far are inconlusive.

I was going to draw up a diagram illustrating how the test setup should be to minimize interference to the instruments and meters, but there are already a few suggestions covering most of what I was going to suggest.

One or both of the meters (standalone and PSU) are giving erroneous readings. We should not be jumping to the conclusion that it is the PSU that is the one in error, nor the meter, but human nature sways us to choose the lower of the two.

Suggest the following to minimize interference to both the PSU and meters:

12VBat-->voltmeter-->currentmeter-->LCFilter(x3)-->RFshield-->DUT

This plattering noise can wreak havoc with all digital meters, and is evidently occuring here.

On the other side of the coin (choosing the higher of the two possible readings), 42V X 3.6A = 150W, so of course the bulb will glow brightly. And 30V X 3.6A = 108W, still enough for a bright bulb.

The PSU is supposed to be capable of only 30V, but with noise wreaking havoc inside the PSU, it could be getting "fooled" into putting out much more. All PSU units start with a higher voltage to allow for regulation, and 42V would not be an unreasonable amount.

Darren

I must agree with Darren.
It could be, that the meters are just getting fooled by the big RF spikes and that the
power supply put out really more.
So it was also very suspicious, that the digital ampmeter did show lower and lower
amps input but the light bulb stayed at the same brightness..

Hmm... Maybe just the batteries on this digital ampmeter were almost empty ?
Then these things also happen as I have experienced my self often when the
battery of the DVM is nearly empty...

As Jason seems not to have used any blocking caps and chokes as lowpassfilters
directly at the power supply, the current could have really been this big.
So my advice, never use digital meters with pulse measurements and only use
analog meters to measure the average input current and always use LC lowpassfilters before going into the circuit
and only measure the input infront of these LC lowpassfilters.

Regards, Stefan.

Sure could be...

Or it could be that it's doing what's been claimed from the beginning.

Your guy's tests should confirm or refute this however.

Anxious to see your results guys!!!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 12, 2007, 06:46:12 PM
Folks
I was there, I was the dude trying to calculate watts. This looks real promising, however because Jason and Otto , not to sure about Otto?s tests, but Jason is using a power supply connected to mains and like some of you have mentioned it the RF could be affecting the power supply. The last calculation based on the power source meter showed about 143 watts, this does not make sense. To prove the fact a battery needs to be used as supply. If  the unit is gathering radiant energy supplying back to the battery would prove useless, remember SM used a converter to run the TV etc. A true test would be to use a battery and replace the light with a resistor, calculate the wattage draw at peak performance and the wattage output at the resistor. A battery will be more forgiving of reversing polarity and the battery can be scoped on ac to see if there is charge back. Of course I am building one. As always I don?t just sit here and post I prefer to do the work and help others. Keep it open source and free. Keep greedy capitalist out.      
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gaspo100 on June 12, 2007, 06:57:25 PM
Hi Peter,
Excellent news.

Are you sure that if all 3 DDS chips start with same master clock after a soft reset they will stay in Sync?
I can use a different DDS chip, it does not need to be the AD9833.

Regards
Rob
I have built triple DDS generator with AD9834 and used RESET pin to synchronize them. I'm quite sure that Analog Device's documentation states stopping the clock as a way of synchronizing the multiple chips.
Here's the schematic of my DDS generator I built in January. I'm controlling them with AT91SAM7 board.

Initially I used PC program to program DDS via ARM7 board. I'm currently building a separate keypad and LCD display to for attaching to ARM7 board to have it self contained and independent of a PC.

Peter
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 12, 2007, 07:15:56 PM
Folks
I was there, I was the dude trying to calculate watts. This looks real promising, however because Jason and Otto , not to sure about Otto?s tests, but Jason is using a power supply connected to mains and like some of you have mentioned it the RF could be affecting the power supply. The last calculation based on the power source meter showed about 143 watts, this does not make sense. To prove the fact a battery needs to be used as supply. If  the unit is gathering radiant energy supplying back to the battery would prove useless, remember SM used a converter to run the TV etc. A true test would be to use a battery and replace the light with a resistor, calculate the wattage draw at peak performance and the wattage output at the resistor. A battery will be more forgiving of reversing polarity and the battery can be scoped on ac to see if there is charge back. Of course I am building one. As always I don?t just sit here and post I prefer to do the work and help others. Keep it open source and free. Keep greedy capitalist out.      



I very much agree. I've been working for a couple of years with Bedini technology and have witnessed all the effects being described. I've had 12v / 50W lamps blow on what appeared to be low bench readings. I've had more than one bench PSU destroyed and in consequence I no longer use these when experimenting with Bedini Energisers. I would therefore urge all those currently testing TPU's to pay special attention to what has been suggested in the way of properly checking current and voltage levels. My bench supplies failed  to regulate because of the HV spiking and delivered their full power to my energiser. You should have seen the brightness of my lamps! Take another look at the video and notice how the LED / LCD meter readings are wildly fluctuating. 

Like all of us I'm aching for a breakthrough but what I'm reading so far seems to be very familiar to me.
Title: Brainless Video
Post by: Earl on June 12, 2007, 07:57:00 PM
You can ramble on about this and that, but it doesn't change the hard, card facts.
The mentioned video was made by someone, who in my opinion has no brain and did not make it through kindergarten.  You obviously have no clue about what constitutes power or you would not have mentioned this video.  Don't lecture me about letting old ideas go, I was researching FE and thinking outside the box probably before you were even born.  Being infinitely stupid has nothing to do with furthering research into the unknown.  Sorry to be so frank, but just because any idiot can post a YouTube video with the phrase "Free Energy" and I get upset does not mean that I think the world is flat.

With my experience I have the obligation to speak up when a novice attempts to turn the group down a road that is hopeless.  Before you make any reply, watch the video again, write down the results, and calculate the power levels involved, including instrument accuracy and allowance of noise levels.

SM's TPU doesn't need a magnet to operate; he only uses it to eliminate an internal battery.

Regards, Earl

Earl,

Go look at the SM video's of the TPU. SM started them by placing magnets on his device. Our goal is to replicate SM's deivice, self contained, free-running with no harmful RF emissions and no need for shields.

For this research to progress, you may have to let go of your old ideas taught to you by the orthodox high priests of electromagnetic dogma. The world is not flat and the sun does not orbit the earth.

Just pay attention to the SM videos and think about what could possibly be the reason why a magnet placed on the unit by SM would make it start?

I take no offense at your cries about "stupidity". This research fundamentally demands a questioning attitude of all our postulates and theorems about electromagnetic phenomena.

The orthodox have always cried heresy against pioneers and their new ideas that forced paradigm change.

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 12, 2007, 08:09:08 PM
Finally..... 8)

This is just awesome.
If i understood correctly the vertical space between the two 4'and 6' coils is not really nessisairy?

otherwise i will have to adjust my diagram.

Thanks guy's awesome job.
Marco
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 12, 2007, 08:15:59 PM
@marco

I think the man said it was 44mm? Jason's first pic has a cardboard structure which showed the two rings are separated by about that distance for maximum coupling effects? I don't know for sure not having started any replication work.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 12, 2007, 08:25:13 PM
Hello Robby & Earl,

refer to my pose at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2084.60.html

I did this super Cap. experiment, result is mini-Volt could be read. It is because the digital Volt meter has a very little bias current to be charged up to the Cap. Therefore the magic power source is your (digital Volt meter). If use the high impedance good  needle volt meter that does not included electronics will not have the effect. The magnet  is unnecessary, it is only a tool in the magic show.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hanker886 on June 12, 2007, 08:30:31 PM
For all of you working so hard, I just want to say

Congratulations!



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 12, 2007, 08:39:34 PM
Finally..... 8)

This is just awesome.
If i understood correctly the vertical space between the two 4'and 6' coils is not really nessisairy?

otherwise i will have to adjust my diagram.

Thanks guy's awesome job.
Marco


Marco,

I know Otto said the output power is higher when the vertical space is there. So I guess it is best to have it raised....

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 12, 2007, 08:42:19 PM
dom can you post the first vid to google with your account? and link back?

Thanks.
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 12, 2007, 09:05:13 PM
@kokomoj0
Anyway, welcome to the 'believers- club'! Membership is free. The only other requirement is to free your mind of previously conceived or previously taught orthodox ideas of how things can and must be done!

Peace

chrisC

WOAH thar!!!!

Not quite yet am i a believer.   several posts back i requested that they run th eoutput through a DC bridge and filter with smoothing caps to provide a filtered DC output.   Then put a load on it with whatever they feel it can do using the filtered DC output.

Remember meters have rms algorithms and can be fooled by non-sinusodial signals.   i am not saying that it does not work but the only way to really show it is with a filtered output loaded up to show beyond any doubt this in fact is doing everything expected.

So i am almost a believer but not till i see the results of a test as i havc described here.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 12, 2007, 09:19:13 PM
@ Kokomojo and others

I am a NON electronic guy who spent about $18.00 to replicate Otto's work.  It took about 30 minutes to build the collectors and tonight I post some pics.

So my point is this.  Just spend a few bucks, wind the coil and help us out.  Test it, retest it, experiment with it, post it.  You guys have all of this knowledge and experience, so just BUILD IT!  ;)

No excuses, or reasons, just build it, and post.  Pretty simple.. LOL

I do encourage you all in a friendly way!

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: jacob on June 12, 2007, 09:19:23 PM
@Jacob,

I have had time only now to read your post.

I've no words: T H A N K

and best luck to the many guys who are now succesfully replicating ECD.

SORRY TO SAY but remember: ECD IS REALLY DANGEROUS...never forget it

Sincerely

Roberto

Anytime Roberto! We're all here for the same reason: we want this to succeed. So it's important that we stick together.

Regards,

Jacob
Title: Controlling the ECD
Post by: dani1 on June 12, 2007, 09:56:28 PM
EMdevices had posted a video in the pulsers only thread. This may be a way to control the output of the ECD by distore the input frequencies with magnets and coils.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1825.msg34190.html#msg34190

Do you know what i mean?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 12, 2007, 10:06:41 PM
Hi all,

another silly Q and then comment about use of FETs as switches.

Q: in the rig with a single DC powered coil - would this not work with magnets substituted? That would be definitive proof of "no power in".

Suggest a group of 3 or 4 magnets be taped about the coil , same pole to each end (they won't like that).


OK, FET's.

Was involved with switch mode PSU many years ago and we found that using FETs gave massive noise / spikes / RF, whereas using HV silicon trannies as used in EHT circuitry did not.

How much are those spikes needed & part of the system, how much are they an unwanted by-product?

Suggest looking up whatever transistors other then MOSFETs etc are nowadays used in HV generators (TV sets) / switch mode PSU and seeing if there are bipolar silicon ones.

For a circuit like this I don't think you need anything particularly fast, just able to cope with HV spikes.

Bipolars tend to run hotter though.

Steve

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Peterae on June 12, 2007, 11:10:53 PM
The most commonly used tv line output transistor in the UK is
BU2508AF and DF the DF has a diode the transistors are triple diffuse planar silicone, the smps most commonly use fets, there have been TV's in the past that have used thyristor outputs for psu and linetime base these were mainly used by grundig.

Peter
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: nutekk on June 12, 2007, 11:10:43 PM
wow! i knew you guys would get it going! i have been lurking around here for months and procrastinating...
amazing work.

im about ready to go down to radio shack..which oscillator schematic should i use for replication?
would tunable self resonating filters work for oscillators?

it is amazing how much information has been suppressed. What other secrets lay not to far beneath the surface of these lies.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Lance on June 13, 2007, 12:07:34 AM
Hi,

Some open thought queries...

Refering to Otto's posted generator circuit. The mosfet transistors have ALL  Drains connected to the same point - 'ZERO'...

Which implies...

1. Why not use ONE transistor driven by a tripple input (F1,2,3) AND logic gate (+ MOSFET gate driver) ?   

2. The primaries are connected in parallel - One coil pair with 3 x turns should do same job?

What purpose do the secondary coils have as their relatively large inductance is shorted by a thick low inductance wire ('mobius turns!')
- I guess the secondary some how cancels the back emf of the primary?

Regards

Lance   :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 13, 2007, 12:34:58 AM
HI All,

I have done some more testing with the mosfet driver ucc37324.
Accidentally connected a diode the wrong way round across the output and BANG!
One split chip.

Replaced with a new one and it made very little difference to the wave shape at the high end 1Mhz, still looks like a mountain range.
BUT if you put a diode in series with the bulb load it does clean up the wave form to almost a square again.

So Jason,Otto, Roberto, try a diode in series with your control coils (MOSFET Drain to coil). This may stop the back emf upsetting your supply.

I will post some scope shots and diagrams on Friday.
More test to do.

Regards
Rob
 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 13, 2007, 02:15:16 AM
@ Kokomojo and others

I am a NON electronic guy who spent about $18.00 to replicate Otto's work.  It took about 30 minutes to build the collectors and tonight I post some pics.

So my point is this.  Just spend a few bucks, wind the coil and help us out.  Test it, retest it, experiment with it, post it.  You guys have all of this knowledge and experience, so just BUILD IT!  ;)

No excuses, or reasons, just build it, and post.  Pretty simple.. LOL

I do encourage you all in a friendly way!

Cheers,
Bruce

Bruce,

Good one! you sound like me  ha!



I sometimes feel that people should either build it or be silent..the results will speak for themselves...but when will the doubters,who have never created anything, stop speaking?

The onus is on you to build it...Thats it 

If this was all fantasy...what a wonderful one....however what if it isint and never was ....what have you got to lose ...nobody ever wanted your money. That my friends is what many people cannot comprehend and that is quite sad. let's hope that we are really ready for this.  Mankind that is..

Hey Kind man...Man kind...see it?

Believe it ...do it...Its still early days

Dont sit in your corner and spruke your doubts ..it is old and boring now.

Bring something to this! You will feel better!
A few kind men have shown some keys to a gate..
The doubters should start a doubtfest on another thread!

love ya all

Lindsay Mannix
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 13, 2007, 02:24:24 AM
@ Kokomojo and others

I am a NON electronic guy who spent about $18.00 to replicate Otto's work.  It took about 30 minutes to build the collectors and tonight I post some pics.

So my point is this.  Just spend a few bucks, wind the coil and help us out.  Test it, retest it, experiment with it, post it.  You guys have all of this knowledge and experience, so just BUILD IT!  ;)

No excuses, or reasons, just build it, and post.  Pretty simple.. LOL

I do encourage you all in a friendly way!

Cheers,
Bruce


Haha!

Nah not me, you are right 18 bucks and i would be off and putzing hours and months and centuries.  Nope not me.  It would be different if i were not so skeptical.   That and i did just build it but on a project i can go into with a great level of faith.  i am working on the hydrogem projects because i have confidence they will provide the expected outcome.

Like i said i will get excited on this once we know the watts in versus the watts out using an unquestionably true rms measurement of the input and the output via recified filtered output and the input.

THEN i will get excited!

Until then i am in a holding wait and see pattern.   i assure you i will build one within 1 day of proving it out with the data i requested.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 13, 2007, 02:27:07 AM
   Just made a trip to Norvak again. Same issues, no parts. Have to go with what was close in the book. Transistors are 500v  20v gate   14amp. No gate drivers at all. None of them had a clue at to what they were and they work there?. Will have to order them via net. Thinking of using a cmos schmidt trigger with a 15v rail voltage. By toneing down the signal input it should switch ok for the moment, at least until the drives get here.
   Other than that should have everything to get going tonite for a small test. Ahh yes and a roll of alum screen for the cage.

   Will be batt powered and read with analog meters on both sides.

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 02:43:51 AM
Lindsay and all,

If it is wrong to question and doubt, then it is also wrong to blindly accept something as true.

Have you made the device and done the measurements? Are you 100% confident they are flawless? Have you simply accepted what someone told you as the truth, when there is little evidence to support that claim?

Perhaps you should ask yourselves this...would you bet your house on it? If not, then think again.

Darren

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 13, 2007, 02:46:47 AM
@ Kokomojo and others

I am a NON electronic guy who spent about $18.00 to replicate Otto's work.  It took about 30 minutes to build the collectors and tonight I post some pics.

So my point is this.  Just spend a few bucks, wind the coil and help us out.  Test it, retest it, experiment with it, post it.  You guys have all of this knowledge and experience, so just BUILD IT!  ;)

No excuses, or reasons, just build it, and post.  Pretty simple.. LOL

I do encourage you all in a friendly way!

Cheers,
Bruce

Bruce,

Good one! you sound like me  ha!



I sometimes feel that people should either build it or be silent..the results will speak for themselves...but when will the doubters,who have never created anything, stop speaking?

The onus is on you to build it...Thats it 

If this was all fantasy...what a wonderful one....however what if it isint and never was ....what have you got to lose ...nobody ever wanted your money. That my friends is what many people cannot comprehend and that is quite sad. let's hope that we are really ready for this.  Mankind that is..

Hey Kind man...Man kind...see it?

Believe it ...do it...Its still early days

Dont sit in your corner and spruke your doubts ..it is old and boring now.

Bring something to this! You will feel better!
A few kind men have shown some keys to a gate..
The doubters should start a doubtfest on another thread!

love ya all

Lindsay Mannix

Hey lets be fair about this.   

Would you accept a car without kicking the tires first?   How many of these things have turned out to be either incorrect measurements or out right fraud?   You want me and others to believe just because you do?  What bank is going ot give you a loan because you waltz in and announce you can pay them back?  Its never going to happen till they do a credit check and make sure you are employed.

If you feel that asking for a simple 5 minute to setup rms test is asking for to much then how do you expect any credible engineer to believe you?

You make a lot of assumptions since i assure you that many out here have "built" several projects.

I neither believe nor do i disbelieve.

All i am asking for is some good input output data to chew on and you want to demonize the process with hyperbole.  i think that is simply the wrong approach and frankly failure to provide such simple data speaks volumes to any engineer out here.  unfortunately not positive volumes.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 13, 2007, 02:58:43 AM
Hey guys, no one is saying to believe anything.  We are saying,
"BUILD IT YOURSELF and answer your own questions!"

This is less than a week old!  We will experiment and tweak and enjoy.  SO CHILL, and build.  If you do not want to build, then wait patiently for your answers when someone gets to answering it.  Relax...sip a cool one....and be patient.  If patience is not for you, then build your own.  Even I can do it!  ;)  LOL

I for one am thinking about how not to get fryed, not too worried about your question at the moment!   ;D

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 13, 2007, 03:06:39 AM
Lindsay and all,

If it is wrong to question and doubt, then it is also wrong to blindly accept something as true.

Have you made the device and done the measurements? Are you 100% confident they are flawless? Have you simply accepted what someone told you as the truth, when there is little evidence to support that claim?

Perhaps you should ask yourselves this...would you bet your house on it? If not, then think again.

Darren



YES! and read the reports as I am not "qualified".

I do not have a house

now get on with it  We need you on the deck.

You other guys  are takling about money...a deal ...there is none here ...PLEASE ..enough!

BYE!

Im gone for a while...I'M not effective at this time.

Be very,very careful

I look foward to your "measurements" Darren
If there is anything that aquire that I think will help your saftey..rest assured you WILL recieve the information.


LM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 13, 2007, 03:08:23 AM

I sometimes feel that people should either build it or be silent..the results will speak for themselves.....

Excellent point Mannix.

When will you be posting photos of your build ?
Or insights from your oscilloscope measurements ?
Or a schematic perhaps ?

I can't recall EVER seeing anything on any build projects you have done ?

Why are you holding back your information from your build projects ?

Or is because you don't have any ?


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 13, 2007, 03:24:26 AM
Hey lets be fair about this.   

Would you accept a car without kicking the tires first? 


@kokomoJ0

Hey, I went through buying 7 cars and yet to kick any tires! Somehow our assesment of what is worthy is really, just that!

A long time ago, Jesus said in parables to people of those days and I quote: (Matthew 13:11-14)

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
   "Though seeing, they do not see;
      though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

I am quoting the above scripture not to start a flame war. It's intent is just to prove in this world there will always be two views of the coin, even though the coin has fallen on the right side!

Cheers

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 13, 2007, 03:34:23 AM
Hey lets be fair about this.   

Would you accept a car without kicking the tires first? 


@kokomoJ0

Hey, I went through buying 7 cars and yet to kick any tires! Somehow our assesment of what is worthy is really, just that!

A long time ago, Jesus said in parables to people of those days and I quote: (Matthew 13:11-14)

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
   "Though seeing, they do not see;
      though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

I am quoting the above scripture not to start a flame war. It's intent is just to prove in this world there will always be two views of the coin, even though the coin has fallen on the right side!

Cheers

chrisC


well there you have it.  who can argue now that god is in the picture!

Of course there is always the one that goes something like pick the log out of your own eye before picking the speck out of mine.

Ask for data and what do i get?  obfuscation and hyperbole from mannix and a sermon from you.

All i want is data from otto or jason or anyone else involved in the believed to be working tpu but you and others for what ever reason prefer to attack me for asking for what is perfectly reasonable.




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 03:34:23 AM
Chris.

Indeed there is....and it has.
 ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 03:39:59 AM
Koko,

You are being reasonable, as I feel I am being too.

However, the other school of thought feels they are being reasonable too. There's no reason why we can't coexist is there?

We have different opinions and approaches. One side will never convince the other, so perhaps let's just call a truce, and let both sides proceed as they will.

In the end, hopefully the answers will be revealed, and the issue settled once and for all.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 13, 2007, 03:43:46 AM
darren & koko:

Good point Darren. We're here for a reason. To seek the truth and there is only one truth. Ya?

So, let us all work together, build some TPU's and contribute our resources.

Cheers

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 03:49:14 AM
Hi All,
just got an email from Jason,
telling me, that he only got 1.5 hours sleep last night and that he has
to work on some school exams in the next days, so it will take
some time, until he gets again to his TPU-ECD.
So please be patient with new measurements from him.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 13, 2007, 03:54:15 AM
Whilst waiting on the exact driver as used by Jason I thought I'd do a couple of tests.

I wanted to see if I could capture what was happening, signal wise, when say a 90khz and 180khz was 'mixed' in a coil.

To do this I wrapped a standard solenoid coil. This is the mixed signal coil. On top of this two parallel wires wrapped together to produce another two coils. i.e. As if wrapping a bifilar coil.

Into the two parallel wrapped coils I fed 90hz into one and 180hz into the other. The attached image shows the 180hz on the top trace, the 90hz I've drawn in in red, the bottom trace is the resultant output. The drawn in red line on the lower trace is the 0V level.

The staircase on the output goes down because the input signal are synchronised on a rising edge. I'll try moving the input signal to synchronise on the trailing edge so that the staircase goes up.

If this output were DC shifted up say 100V, you would have a situation where, in the case of a rising staircase, you would have progressive dc pulses WITHOUT A CURRENT REVERSAL. We know from Tesla that Radiant Energy occurs when pulses are applied in such a way that their is no current reversal... Further more, if this staircase effect was to occur on a high voltage spike, due to further mixing with other coils and you have the situation where you are generating high voltage DC, non reversing pulses.

I think part of the puzzle is to get this staircase effect happening on the leading edge of very high voltage BEMF pulses.

EDIT: I had the AC button pressed on my scope instead of the DC. I've therefore redrawn the 0V level on the attached image. The 0V level is at the bottom of the lower trace NOT centered on the lower trace.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 13, 2007, 03:57:32 AM
Hi All,

As for me and my thinking of this, the goal of the project to replicate the TCU is NOT to make reward money or figure out who gets control or fame for it. Let the Most High God figure all that out for us when the proper time comes.

This project is about changing the world. The current modern paradigm based on the use of fossil fuels  as energy and chemical explosion as our machinery prime mover... well, let's just say it is a tragic dead end waiting to devastate us. Peak global oil production has probably already occurred, but demand for oil is increasing exponentially as China, India, and much of the Third World modernize. They are seeking the same resources we have cheaply taken for granted for the last 100 years.

If the fossil fuel paradigm remains unchallenged by any new energy technology, then we are headed for more devastating wars (like Iraq) and an eventual, rapid and very harsh economic decay that will put us all back to riding horses and camels again. This could all happen within our lifetimes at the current rate demand growth compared to energy production. See the attached Peak Oil PDF.

Now I know... this particular thread is all about replication and experimental facts, so this will be my last "speech". But I must say replication for the sake of replication is not enough. We must do replication with an inspiring vision. It must be a bigger vision than just some invention for our own selfish enrichment and ego stroking. We must have a vision of saving our world and pushing human civilization further along to newer heights for the sake of our children and our children's children. The world has more than 6 billion souls. Consider your own education, profession, income and individual wealth and most of us in this forum are probably representing the top tenth percentile compared to the rest of the total human population. If we can not find the altruistic motivation and illumination to pursue a lofty vision for the future that is greater than ourselves, then what can we expect of the other 90% of our neighbors on this planet? So let us replicate this technology with vision, with purpose and with passion!!

We must shift the paradigm from a fossil fuel basis to a Radiant Energy paradigm. And when success is truly in our hands, then let us virally spread it throughout the world like a new "gospel" using face to face interactions and the wonderful internet technology that we have available to us. Let us change the world and free ourselves from the poverty, misery and warfare brought to us by Dirty Oil!

I for one have been supremely inspired by SM's videos and also Otto-Roberto's and Jason's recent replications. I will work on this myself. And as I achieve my own success I will no doubt give this knowledge away and teach it to anyone willing to listen.

May God help us all in this endeavor!
Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 13, 2007, 04:05:46 AM
I agree and with that thought in mind i also highly recommend checking out ironheads hydrogen thread for an excellent example of how to make massive hydrogen.

We will never run out of water!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoEXaNnBRPo

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.0.html



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: xilusma on June 13, 2007, 05:03:58 AM
A very good replication.. I wish I had mine as bright as yours ..

Anyway, the game is just started .. any one care to joint ?  ;D

Hope to complete mine soon ... (or might be not  :'( ) ...

Good hunting mate ...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: IronHead on June 13, 2007, 05:59:15 AM
Hold on to your hats , it's about to get weird in here.

Go easy guys
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Rosphere on June 13, 2007, 06:00:44 AM
Hi All,
just got an email from Jason,
telling me, that he only got 1.5 hours sleep last night and that he has
to work on some school exams in the next days, so it will take
some time, until he gets again to his TPU-ECD.
So please be patient with new measurements from him.

Regards, Stefan.

I agree.  Let the man rest awhile,... even after his exams are behind him.

I get tired just watching him.   ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 13, 2007, 11:40:50 AM
Hello all,

it should be clear that my setup is MY favorit in this moment. SM told us that there are a lot of ways to built a good TPU. So, in a very short time, I suppose, there will be TPUs like the open one with the controlls wound all over the collector and a few other types.

I only wanted to give the basic setup that I have. Its on you to find other possibilities to built a good TPU.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 13, 2007, 12:09:02 PM
Hi Otto,

That is true, there is alot I read, and I read and re read from Lindsay and Steven, and things are still stuck in my head. I'm glad that you have continued with the work, and have no way given up. I solute you.

I have gone a different path, with John bedini's work, I still have an energizer to finish, But i'm glad you have continued on.

I spoke to Roberto the other night and he speaks very highly of you, I actually thought Wow because your from Crotia, where another famous person by the name of Nikola Tesla came from, your country men, hehehee you must have an edge on all of us because of that fact......

Again, to All who have kept going, Thank you

Dominic
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 12:16:19 PM
Whilst waiting on the exact driver as used by Jason I thought I'd do a couple of tests.

I wanted to see if I could capture what was happening, signal wise, when say a 90khz and 180khz was 'mixed' in a coil.

To do this I wrapped a standard solenoid coil. This is the mixed signal coil. On top of this two parallel wires wrapped together to produce another two coils. i.e. As if wrapping a bifilar coil.

Into the two parallel wrapped coils I fed 90hz into one and 180hz into the other. The attached image shows the 180hz on the top trace, the 90hz I've drawn in in red, the bottom trace is the resultant output. The drawn in red line on the lower trace is the 0V level.

The staircase on the output goes down because the input signal are synchronised on a rising edge. I'll try moving the input signal to synchronise on the trailing edge so that the staircase goes up.

If this output were DC shifted up say 100V, you would have a situation where, in the case of a rising staircase, you would have progressive dc pulses WITHOUT A CURRENT REVERSAL. We know from Tesla that Radiant Energy occurs when pulses are applied in such a way that their is no current reversal... Further more, if this staircase effect was to occur on a high voltage spike, due to further mixing with other coils and you have the situation where you are generating high voltage DC, non reversing pulses.

I think part of the puzzle is to get this staircase effect happening on the leading edge of very high voltage BEMF pulses.

EDIT: I had the AC button pressed on my scope instead of the DC. I've therefore redrawn the 0V level on the attached image. The 0V level is at the bottom of the lower trace NOT centered on the lower trace.

Okay, but then your red lower frequency must have double the amplitude of your green square wave,otherwise you will
not get this staircase wave just by adding them up...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: shuzammy on June 13, 2007, 12:23:15 PM
SM told us that there are a lot of ways to built a good TPU. So, in a very short time, I suppose, there will be TPUs like the open one with the controlls wound all over the collector and a few other types.  I only wanted to give the basic setup that I have. Its on you to find other possibilities to built a good TPU. Otto

With that in mind I wonder if there would be any merit in considering how a TPU may be wound in a Tensor or Caduceus Coil manner.

"This coil has repeatedly been found to violate established laws of electrodynamics and hertzian wave theory when high frequency is injected into it."

"This apparatus has zero impedance  - unlike an ordinary coil."

"It has infinite resonance  - unlike an ordinary coil which will resonate chiefly at its natural fundamental frequency and weakly on the 2nd or 3rd harmonic, the Tensor coil is capable of resonating strongly on any number of frequencies randomly spaced in the spectrum."

"A few investigators have also reported unexpected bizarre inertial effects  (READ: "gyroscopic effects"?) in conjunction with these coils."

Perhaps if one modeled a TPU after the omni-resonant antenna-like features of human DNA (caduceus style), one "may" inherently solve the problem of TPU super nova ("spontanious combustion")... ?

- http://uncletaz.com/library/scimath/cadcoil.html
- http://www.keelynet.com/time/cadsmith.htm
- http://jlnlabs.imars.com/spgen/
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 13, 2007, 12:49:47 PM
Hello all,

@shuzammi

I tried the canduceus way of winding my control coil but I had no success. Maybe I did something wrong but I would prefer, for now, to use just "normal" coil windings methods.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 12:53:25 PM
Hi Otto,
is really this moebius coil form needed or can one also be used
just a normal standard coil as the collector coil ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 13, 2007, 01:01:50 PM
Hello,

@Stefan,

the point is in the MOEBIUS!!!!! Thats for sure. Then, when you have the collectors as mine you can try other ways to wind the controls. In the open TPU I saw a lamp wire as the controls?? I hope my memory is good???

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 13, 2007, 01:08:23 PM
Hi guys,

Playing devils advocate here....

Thinking about good proof that this is OU. The readings and a bright bulb are indicative, not absolute proof. The issue is that the power source is fully capable of driving the bulb to high brilliance.

The doubt is - IF the power (out of the main power source) is available, could the circuitry not form a DC inverter of some sort and just be robbing power from the supply unit / over-volting the bulb?

The metering is alas useless as a proof of power output because:

* all {non-purpose designed} metering is upset by RF spikes and will NOT show correct numbers.

The errors can be significant as in x100 out, too high or too low.

Why? Those spikes mean that resistive loads are also inductors; you may be getting transformer effects, power factor effects as well as other absolutely unknown stuff (like free energy...). Digital systems all suffer from alialising (sample window misses changing voltage) so may actually be reading low!


If designing a free-energy demonstrator which is provable - why not go for a system which takes known trivial power-in and does something it clearly could never do?

Say a low-power version of the same rig. Drive from solar cells and light a torch bulb.

Proof then is - the circuit will run by holding the solar cell to the lit bulb. Any other light - is free energy and unquestionable proof. This would normally never work!


For the present replication -

   1) on power-in side:

   a) run system from fully charged car battery until exhausted / reaches known voltage
   b) then measure power-in (of steady DC) to fully recharge battery.

   Any RF spike damage to the battery will likely reduce capacity - so being less able to take power means it has a shorter recharge time (hits its capacity ceiling earlier). This gives a false (too low) recharge reading - so repeat this several times looking for battery deterioration. Measure this and correct.

   2) on power-out side:

   go for mechanical proof vs. gravity e.g.

   drive a motor to lift a weight, run a pump to lift water etc. and calculate the energy.

An alternative is to GET RID of all those spikes and go to either of a DC or a pure AC sinusoid system. These are the things test meters are designed to read OK.

What is known of the physics / natural world would suggest that AC is a good choice; a free-energy mechanism is likely to work in sinusoids (like much of the rest of physics).

No g'ttees though - it might operate via bursts of quanta :(

If 180K Hz is a sweet-spot, a sinusoid AC rig should show effects at 180K too.


Why say all this stuff? My background has been in Quality Assurance. Part of this is to critique your own work - before your customer / other guy / your boss does. If you know the areas of weakness, they can be fixed.

Hope that is a help.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 13, 2007, 01:32:13 PM
Whilst waiting on the exact driver as used by Jason I thought I'd do a couple of tests.

I wanted to see if I could capture what was happening, signal wise, when say a 90khz and 180khz was 'mixed' in a coil.

To do this I wrapped a standard solenoid coil. This is the mixed signal coil. On top of this two parallel wires wrapped together to produce another two coils. i.e. As if wrapping a bifilar coil.

Into the two parallel wrapped coils I fed 90hz into one and 180hz into the other. The attached image shows the 180hz on the top trace, the 90hz I've drawn in in red, the bottom trace is the resultant output. The drawn in red line on the lower trace is the 0V level.

The staircase on the output goes down because the input signal are synchronised on a rising edge. I'll try moving the input signal to synchronise on the trailing edge so that the staircase goes up.

If this output were DC shifted up say 100V, you would have a situation where, in the case of a rising staircase, you would have progressive dc pulses WITHOUT A CURRENT REVERSAL. We know from Tesla that Radiant Energy occurs when pulses are applied in such a way that their is no current reversal... Further more, if this staircase effect was to occur on a high voltage spike, due to further mixing with other coils and you have the situation where you are generating high voltage DC, non reversing pulses.

I think part of the puzzle is to get this staircase effect happening on the leading edge of very high voltage BEMF pulses.

EDIT: I had the AC button pressed on my scope instead of the DC. I've therefore redrawn the 0V level on the attached image. The 0V level is at the bottom of the lower trace NOT centered on the lower trace.

Okay, but then your red lower frequency must have double the amplitude of your green square wave,otherwise you will
not get this staircase wave just by adding them up...

I would have expected a 3 level staircase with the same amplitude for the input square waves. 1 high, 2 and 3 in the middle, and 1 low. I checked the output from the mosfet drivers and the square waves from the drivers are the same amplitude...

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 13, 2007, 01:41:42 PM
I have to say I'm looking forward to replicating this device. Drivers will be here tomorrow morning !!

These are some of the tests I have in mind:

1. Once I have the two frequency lighting of the bulb. What happens if I gradually reduce the supply voltage ? Is there a sudden cut-off point where the bulb turns off or does it reduce brightness gradually ?

2. What happens if I disconnect one, or other, or both of the mobius coils ?

3. What happens if I disconnect one of the control coils ?

4. What happens if I switch in one or more bulbs in series ?

5. What happens if I switch in one or more bulbs in parallel ?

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: louis on June 13, 2007, 01:47:55 PM
is this how the outputs of the 7307 are wired, as ottos symbols are a little off.
and having never used mosfets , and having only just enough i dont want to destroy
them. i understand the gates are joined its just the other pins i was curious about.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 01:56:47 PM


I would have expected a 3 level staircase with the same amplitude for the input square waves. 1 high, 2 and 3 in the middle, and 1 low. I checked the output from the mosfet drivers and the square waves from the drivers are the same amplitude...



Strange, how did you mix these 2 waveforms ?
Added them up via resistors or how ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 01:58:19 PM
I have to say I'm looking forward to replicating this device. Drivers will be here tomorrow morning !!

These are some of the tests I have in mind:

1. Once I have the two frequency lighting of the bulb. What happens if I gradually reduce the supply voltage ? Is there a sudden cut-off point where the bulb turns off or does it reduce brightness gradually ?

2. What happens if I disconnect one, or other, or both of the mobius coils ?

3. What happens if I disconnect one of the control coils ?

4. What happens if I switch in one or more bulbs in series ?

5. What happens if I switch in one or more bulbs in parallel ?



I hope Jason, Otto or Roberto can answer this.
Any maybe soon Giantkiller with his new setup.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gyulasun on June 13, 2007, 02:02:36 PM
sorry, I was mistaken.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 13, 2007, 02:34:45 PM
Hello,

@Bob.rennips

1.if my memory is ok, I can say that when you reduce the supply voltage the light is reduced. But dont worry about the power supply. When you hit the right frequency mix, the voltage from the power supply will be at 12V if you started with this voltage.

2.By disconnecting one strand you will see that there is less power and this means that your bulb is not so nice shining.

3. By disconnecting 2 strands look at point 2.

4. When you add more bulbs the power is halfed in this moment. NO;NO; dont worry!!!I already sayd that my controls are not sooo good. This is my first job. Better controls.
In the final version, when the controls are ok, then you can connect another bulb and the instruments cant "see" an additional load. I made this already but lost it because my oscillators are also not good.

Bulbs in a series connection I never tried.

Otto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 02:55:01 PM
Hello all,

it should be clear that my setup is MY favorit in this moment. SM told us that there are a lot of ways to built a good TPU. So, in a very short time, I suppose, there will be TPUs like the open one with the controlls wound all over the collector and a few other types.

I only wanted to give the basic setup that I have. Its on you to find other possibilities to built a good TPU.

Otto

Otto,

Bearing the above in mind, and the fact that you have built something and have seen some results, you must have an explanation or theory of operation for the device?

Have you or Roberto considered doing a writeup of the theory of operation for this device?

SM said that different configurations work, albeit, the final one was best. However, we can be certain that no matter what the configuration, the theory of operation, or basic concept is the same in all.

It would be interesting to read what the theory of operation or basic concept of your device is, as I have not seen this yet. Sorry if this has already been explained, but a formal writeup would be helpful to those building also, so they know what they are looking for.

I know you both are busy, this is only a suggestion.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 13, 2007, 03:04:25 PM


I would have expected a 3 level staircase with the same amplitude for the input square waves. 1 high, 2 and 3 in the middle, and 1 low. I checked the output from the mosfet drivers and the square waves from the drivers are the same amplitude...



Strange, how did you mix these 2 waveforms ?
Added them up via resistors or how ?

As per my original email - 2 parallel wound coils for the inputs - these two coils were wound over a single coil, which is the output.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 13, 2007, 04:05:02 PM
Time to fire up and test this unit off the grid.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 13, 2007, 04:10:30 PM
Hello all,

@Darren,

a little from our theory is in the pdf. I have my theory but this is not for public because its totally....

Im only a little coil winder, nothing more. I hate theories. Better theorists, will one day say us all whats going on in a TPU.

When all the jobs arround a TPU is finished then somebody can wright all the explanations.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 04:24:48 PM
Time to fire up and test this unit off the grid.


Let it go c0mster ! ;)

Very exited to see your progress !

Come on, just let us know ! ;)

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gyulasun on June 13, 2007, 04:59:04 PM
is this how the outputs of the 7307 are wired, as ottos symbols are a little off.
and having never used mosfets , and having only just enough i dont want to destroy
them. i understand the gates are joined its just the other pins i was curious about.


Hello Louis,

From the data sheet of IRF7307, you can see the drains of both the n-  and p-channel MOSFETs are double pins (probably due to increase the heat sink area of the drains).  See link to data sheet: http://www.radiobox.ru/pdf/IRF7307.PDF

However, if I were to use the IRF7307 as a driver, I would use the p-channel FET of the IRF7307 in the place of the upper switch where just the n-channel FET is shown in Roberto + Otto's schematics here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2383.0.html  ( otto_ronette_TPU_ECD-V1_0.pdf )  Diagram 8, page 29  and I would use the n-channel FET of the IRF7307 in the place of the lower switch where the p-channel FET is shown in Diagram 8.   You may ask why?

I think if the n-channel FET is the upper switch, there will be negative feedback against a rapid switch-on of the IRFP FET because when the gate-source capacitor of the IRFP starts charging through the switched-on n-channel driver of 7307, the increasing capacitor voltage between the IRFP's gate-source will work against the input gate switching pulse you input at Pins 2 & 4 of the 7307. This way the rapid switch-on of the IRFP FET may suffer.

In case the p-channel FET is the upper switch in the 7307, the gate-source capacitor of the IRFP starts charging through the drain of the p-channel switch (from the +8 to +12V supply) so that the increasing capacitor voltage is not able to influence the input pulse's switching effect you input at Pins 2 & 4 of the 7307.

I hope this is not so complicated as it may sound first and you understand the switching process. To fully ensure the correct switch-on and switch-off of the IRFP MOSFET, the amplitude of the input pulse you connect to the common gate pins 2 & 4 of the 7307 must be nearly the same or the same  as the amplitude of the positive supply voltage of the 7307 driver itself.  
for instance if you use +12V power supply to operate the 7307, then your pulse oscillator should output a minimum of +11V pulse to feed the connected gates in the 7307 with respect to the common negative points (your ground symbol).  
You indicated in your attached drawing a +3V supply voltage to the 7307: this is not enough to safely switch on the IRFP FET!!!  Because this FET has a threshold gate voltage of +4 or +5V with respect to its source and the +3V cannot switch it on!!!  

I attached a drawing of the pin connections of the IRF7307 as I think is correct in every respect.  I hope Roberto and others here will comment it, either pro or contra.

Regards
Gyula

EDIT: I just realised your drawing basically includes my drawing so your pin connections are correct. Sorry for noticing this only after posting my drawing.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 13, 2007, 05:03:33 PM
Stefan, it took me no time to wrap the coil, man build it , it will take you no time, then we can have you in there to with your own results, i think this thread is going to have one of the most replications in it...very soon.

common Stefan go for it man.......................



Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 05:08:07 PM
Why  are you using these expensive driver FETs ?

Why not just control the IRF 840 ?s gate with a parallel circuit
of 3 or 4 schmitttrigger hex inverter ICs like
MM74C14 Hex Schmitt Trigger  ?

Here is a PDF File.

Just put at least 2 or 3 of them parallel and there you go.
Should have enough punch to hit the IRF 840 gate fully open !

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74C14.pdf
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 05:10:05 PM
Stefan, it took me no time to wrap the coil, man build it , it will take you no time, then we can have you in there to with your own results, i think this thread is going to have one of the most replications in it...very soon.

common Stefan go for it man.......................



Dom

In about 2 weeks I have time to do it.
Am in a hurry now.
C0mster let the videos come in.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 13, 2007, 05:15:07 PM
@Gyulasun,

please paj attention, the schematic posted in my doc TPU=ECD is TESTED on my ECD. Anyway I've just followed the configuration suggested by the constructor of IRF7307 8International Rectifier) that you find attached, please look at fig 9. Using that approach I could use a wide range of posibilities (including the NE555) as input signal.

In my opinion the very low output impedance showed by said 7307 config is just what needed to correctly drive the power MOSFET properly charging his input capacitance augmented by the Miller effect. That's just what needed to drive the MOSFET into avalanche mode - fundamental.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gyulasun on June 13, 2007, 05:19:57 PM
Why  are you using these expensive driver FETs ?

Why not just control the IRF 840 ?s gate with a parallel circuit
of 3 or 4 schmitttrigger hex inverter ICs like
MM74C14 Hex Schmitt Trigger  ?

Here is a PDF File.

Just put at least 2 or 3 of them parallel and there you go.
Should have enough punch to hit the IRF 840 gate fully open !

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74C14.pdf

Hi Stefan,

Yes, basically I agree with you (though I would use a dedicated MOSFET driver IC if the switching speed is an issue in the TPU)  but I wanted to answer Louis's  questions.  

Once He wishes to adhere to Roberto+Otto circuit schematics then naturally follows the components too.

Regards
Gyula
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gyulasun on June 13, 2007, 05:43:55 PM
@Gyulasun,

please paj attention, the schematic posted in my doc TPU=ECD is TESTED on my ECD. Anyway I've just followed the configuration suggested by the constructor of IRF7307 8International Rectifier) that you find attached, please look at fig 9. Using that approach I could use a wide range of posibilities (including the NE555) as input signal.

In my opinion the very low output impedance showed by said 7307 config is just what needed to correctly drive the power MOSFET properly charging his input capacitance augmented by the Miller effect. That's just what needed to drive the MOSFET into avalanche mode - fundamental.

Hi Roberto,

Thank you very much for showing  Fig. 9 in your attachment.

Because it shows the gates of the 7307 are tied up to +12V via the 1kOhm resistor and this already justifies for me a correct control of the driver as shown!  Now that you showed this, I fully accept now this driver connection too. 

Best Regards
Gyula




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 13, 2007, 05:54:39 PM
Darren:

I too love to understand the 'theory' behind Otto's TPU. At the moment there are many conjectures, bits and pieces may be true but I seriously doubt anyone for sure understands this completely. Even SM didn't know why the unit ceased working when flipped upside down.

All of us are seeing effects not obvious to common understanding. It's just like driving. Do you need to know every aspect of car mechanics to enjoy the benefits of driving?

I can tell you this much. If you read the little of Otto's theory explanation in his disclosure and still needed absolute proof, you will not believe his unwritten theory. Even Einstein hasn't gone there!

Well, maybe you really should just spend $18 and 1 hour of your time and answer all the questions and then get totally excited to help us or disprove this project? I also love to disprove this myself but the dice is rolling the other way!

Cheers

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 13, 2007, 06:23:06 PM
To make a start with the theory behind the tpu, I think I have a pretty clear picture of what the source of the kicks is....
Of couse this is just my view on things, based on information provided by dave Lowrance and the c c c p group. See: magnetism.fateback.com/overunity.htm
 
Seeing the kicks shown on Otto and Roberto's test have the exact NMR ring of the copper atom's nucleus, it is pretty clear that the kick the (lagged) turning of the nucleus. The copper atoms nucleus has a magnetic hook and therfore its movement can be manipulated. (which is done by the fast rising leading edge of the pulsing).
When this nucleus is starting to turn it also moves the electrons in its electron cloud (through magnetic coupling in the atom)
This moving of the electrons is the free "kick" SM is talking about. The free energy is in there because it costs far less energy to create the kick then what you get back from the ringing of the nucleus, especially when you consider you get another kick when the control pulse switches off..... 

Hope this a start to a better understanding of what is going on inside the tpu/ecd

Regards

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 06:28:01 PM
Darren:

All of us are seeing effects not obvious to common understanding. It's just like driving. Do you need to know every aspect of car mechanics to enjoy the benefits of driving?

I can tell you this much. If you read the little of Otto's theory explanation in his disclosure and still needed absolute proof, you will not believe his unwritten theory. Even Einstein hasn't gone there!

Well, maybe you really should just spend $18 and 1 hour of your time and answer all the questions and then get totally excited to help us or disprove this project? I also love to disprove this myself but the dice is rolling the other way!

Cheers

chrisC


Chris, your enthusiasm is admirable.

However, I have been experimenting, building, and designing for a long time, and also seen "wolf" cried far more times than I care to remember. So perhaps you can appreciate my skeptecism and objectivity.

So far in the posted results, I have not seen anything that can not be explained with conventional theories. I have also not seen measured results that could be described as conclusive nor flawless.

I will not spend the time building this because I do not believe it works according to the claims being made. Insufficient and unrelible data is all that has been presented thus far and that won't convince me it is worthwhile to build it. I have other projects going, including the SM-TPU.

Surely Otto and Roberto must have a theory of how the device operates, or at least what effect they were trying to achieve by their configuration? They must also know if and how a RMF is created, a turbine effect exists, what the kicks are and how they manifest etc. etc.

I am sure SM knows very well how to achieve the effect, and what it is, even though he may not be positive where the energy is coming from. I would expect Otto and Roberto to be aware of these things too with their device, and to help all replicators and non-replicators understand what is being built, and how it should operate and perform, a brief description of the circuit and what is trying to be achieved is what I had in mind. I didn't see that in the pdf that was released.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Super God on June 13, 2007, 06:28:37 PM
Now this is pretty sweet.  Once I get the parts ordered, which should be about a week, I'm going to start my own replication of otto's replication of the tpu.  What a mouthful.  Just need to whiddle up a frequency generator, should'nt be too hard, I'm not looking for anything fancy anyways.  Once I get my new multimeter too, that'll help with this, right now all I've got is a cheap-o analog meter and 3 spools of 18 gauge magnet wire for a turntable motor.  I can at least get the basic circuit done!

Have a great day.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Super God on June 13, 2007, 06:37:48 PM
Is the zero degree coil connected to the zero phase output?  Why is the third oscillator connected to the zero phase?  Sorry, just a bit of misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 13, 2007, 07:43:44 PM
z_p_e wrote: -

"However, I have been experimenting, building, and designing for a long time, and also seen "wolf" cried far more times than I care to remember. So perhaps you can appreciate my skeptecism and objectivity."


Me too.

It's important that Otto and Roberto carry out their own verification tests. They are now well aware of how this should be done and I'm sure they will report their findings in their own good time. Other replications are to be encouraged but Otto and Roberto can only sit back and rest when they have proved to themselves that their TPU and power supply can pass any scientific test conducted to verify the data and observations so far presented and recorded.

Regards
Clive
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 13, 2007, 07:50:09 PM
@Tishatang

I tried to send you a personal message via the forum (twice). Are you still coming down to Santa Cruz with your scope?
Please let me know, asap (before you leave for China)!

Thanks

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: jacob on June 13, 2007, 08:52:11 PM
SM said that different configurations work, albeit, the final one was best. However, we can be certain that no matter what the configuration, the theory of operation, or basic concept is the same in all.

Not necessarily. Two different but linked processes could be involved in the ideal configuration, and some configurations could only expose one of these processes. What is interesting about Roberto's and Otto's breakthrough is that it gives us another perspective which, combined to what we already knew, will help us us gain a better understanding of the overall phenomena. 

It would be interesting to read what the theory of operation or basic concept of your device is, as I have not seen this yet. Sorry if this has already been explained, but a formal writeup would be helpful to those building also, so they know what they are looking for.

Darren, before requesting more reading material, I suggest you read what is already available. Here is an excerpt from the TPU_ECD_V1_0.pdf document:

In this paper you will find few theoretical assessments: they, with the help of God,
will come later. This paper that you are going to read is to be considered just as preliminary, more data will follow as per requests also. A complete description of principles behind ECD may be found here (http://magnetism.fateback.com/Overunity.htm).

I will not spend the time building this because I do not believe it works according to the claims being made. Insufficient and unrelible data is all that has been presented thus far and that won't convince me it is worthwhile to build it. I have other projects going, including the SM-TPU.

Then the appropriate question is: What are you doing here? This thread is for those who believe there is something important going on, and who want to be part of it. Others should either go for a walk or stay silent.

Surely Otto and Roberto must have a theory of how the device operates, or at least what effect they were trying to achieve by their configuration? They must also know if and how a RMF is created, a turbine effect exists, what the kicks are and how they manifest etc. etc.

Surely, you know how long it takes to build a theorical frame around an unknown phenomena. This breakthough happened only a few days ago. Isn't your request somewhat unreasonable? Plus, why would you want to further your knowledge in a phenomena you don't believe in? Unless of course you have a hidden agenda...

I am sure SM knows very well how to achieve the effect, and what it is, even though he may not be positive where the energy is coming from.

Since you followed what what going on in the Magnetic Reconnection thread, you must remember that in a letter to Mannix following the publication of my theory, SM plainly said that he had no idea what this effect was.

Jacob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 13, 2007, 08:58:59 PM
SM said that different configurations work, albeit, the final one was best. However, we can be certain that no matter what the configuration, the theory of operation, or basic concept is the same in all.

Not necessarily. Two different but linked processes could be involved in the ideal configuration, and some configurations could only expose one of these processes. What is interesting about Roberto's and Otto's breakthrough is that it gives us another perspective which, combined to what we already knew, will help us us gain a better understanding of the overall phenomena. 

It would be interesting to read what the theory of operation or basic concept of your device is, as I have not seen this yet. Sorry if this has already been explained, but a formal writeup would be helpful to those building also, so they know what they are looking for.

Darren, before requesting more reading material, I suggest you read what is already available. Here is an excerpt from the TPU_ECD_V1_0.pdf document:

In this paper you will find few theoretical assessments: they, with the help of God,
will come later. This paper that you are going to read is to be considered just as preliminary, more data will follow as per requests also. A complete description of principles behind ECD may be found here (http://magnetism.fateback.com/Overunity.htm).

I will not spend the time building this because I do not believe it works according to the claims being made. Insufficient and unrelible data is all that has been presented thus far and that won't convince me it is worthwhile to build it. I have other projects going, including the SM-TPU.

Then the appropriate question is: What are you doing here? This thread is for those who believe there is something important going on, and who want to be part of it. Others should either go for a walk or stay silent.

Surely Otto and Roberto must have a theory of how the device operates, or at least what effect they were trying to achieve by their configuration? They must also know if and how a RMF is created, a turbine effect exists, what the kicks are and how they manifest etc. etc.

Surely, you know how long it takes to build a theorical frame around an unknown phenomena. This breakthough happened only a few days ago. Isn't your request somewhat unreasonable? Plus, why would you want to further your knowledge in a phenomena you don't believe in? Unless of course you have a hidden agenda...

I am sure SM knows very well how to achieve the effect, and what it is, even though he may not be positive where the energy is coming from.

Since you followed what what going on in the Magnetic Reconnection thread, you must remember that in a letter to Mannix following the publication of my theory, SM plainly said that he had no idea what this effect was.

Jacob

(http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/clap.gif)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: duff on June 13, 2007, 09:05:03 PM
.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on June 13, 2007, 09:14:57 PM
JUST BUILD IT!!!

...then you can answer your own questions.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 13, 2007, 09:23:41 PM
I'd like to suggest that after the next replication is accomplished with square waves, you inject sine waves, and perhaps re-tune to verify the effect still exists.

Perhaps the square waves and related harmonics are responsible for most of the harmful effects that have been reported and this is why SM stressed pure sine waves. I realize everyone is very aware of the possibility but I have not heard anyone state it.

-Duff

Not a bad idea, however I have to point out that SM never clearly state that he was talking about pure sine waves, we assume that because of the context. He could mean very very accurate pulses.

My gut tells me that we wouldn't see anything with AC input.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 13, 2007, 09:24:20 PM
@ Duff

SM said "Pure frequency", not "Pure Sine wave".  I made that same false assumption in my thread, until re reading SM's words.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: duff on June 13, 2007, 09:35:45 PM
.
Title: poor man's FET driver
Post by: Earl on June 13, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
Hi Harti,

this is a good idea only as long as you do not need fast switching.  The spec sheet only guarantees 1.75 mA output current.  A normal FET driver IC can deliver 3A, 4A, even 9A, so you can see that even putting all gates in parallel still delivers too little current to charge up the power FET input capacity of maybe 2nF.  In addition you have to get through the so-called Miller zone.

I prefer a fast, driver IC, but sometimes use the attached "cheap and dirty" circuit.  If you run the IC at 6V, then you can just get by with a "logic-level" FET.  Because the transistors operate as emitter followers, there are no storage charges to slow them down, but you lose 0.6V base-emitter.  Emmitter followers have very low output impedance.

Since radiant events are suspected to be caused by switching current on and off extremely quickly, the best is to turn the power FET on and off as fast as possible.  This can only be done by a driver IC, say operating at 10-15 VDC, spec'ed to charge and discharge the FET gate in 10 or 20ns.  But in practice you will not achieve this unless you use multiple SMD ceramic C's of different values.  IT IS NOT THE POWER SUPPLY THAT DELIVERS THE MULTI-AMP PULSES, IT'S THE C's AND THE C's ONLY.  The driver IC must be located directly at the FET's source and gate terminals, say closer than 1 ~ 4 mm NO MORE !!!

Nanoseconds = small
high currents = small
big = antenna

Having wires running all over your table is not how you do nanosecond switching.  But it makes a fantastic transmitter OF RF.

It is a science and an art to build fast switching circuits.

Regards, Earl
Why  are you using these expensive driver FETs ?

Why not just control the IRF 840 ?s gate with a parallel circuit
of 3 or 4 schmitttrigger hex inverter ICs like
MM74C14 Hex Schmitt Trigger  ?

Here is a PDF File.

Just put at least 2 or 3 of them parallel and there you go.
Should have enough punch to hit the IRF 840 gate fully open !

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74C14.pdf
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 09:54:33 PM
Hi Earl,
many thanks for your experience and your circuit.
Maybe it is only required to have a fast OFF switching in this circuit,so
your circuit still needs a low ohmic resistor like 100 Ohms from Gate to ground ?

or is the lower PNP transistor enough to pull the gate down ?

Well, we are working here in the Khz ranges and I ask myself,
if we really need this fast Nanosecond switching ?

Would be intersting to see, if the TPU-ECD would also work with
being controlled by 3 different sine frequencies..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Pure Frequency ?
Post by: Earl on June 13, 2007, 09:59:32 PM
For a sine wave, I think it can safely be assumed that pure means low-distortion, low harmonics.  For a square wave or pulse, it is more difficult, but could be interpreted to mean either low-jitter (jitter = noise in effect) or high frequency-stability, low drift.  This might mean no R/C elements in the oscillator, only L/C elements permitted.  This rules out 555 timer circuits.

Regards, Earl
@ Duff

SM said "Pure frequency", not "Pure Sine wave".  I made that same false assumption in my thread, until re reading SM's words.

Cheers,
Bruce

@ Bruce & gn0stik

Thanks for the correction.

So minimum harmonic content  might equal less harmful effects to deal with.

-Duff


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 13, 2007, 10:24:46 PM
@ Earl

SM suggested in his posts, to build a "mini tube amp" using Mosfets, to power the TPU, to start with.  He said it would be faster all around, to see something happen.  Can you explain as an electronic guy, how close to what is being done, is to a mini tube amp?  Is there any similarites?  What would the difference be?

I think this is an important post of SM's.

Thank you,
Bruce
Title: cheap and dirty FET driver
Post by: Earl on June 13, 2007, 11:14:58 PM
Hi Harti,

As I understand Tesla, he sais both turn-on and turn-off should be as fast as possible and he tried everything he could to achieve this.

I personally do not like any resistance in the gate for switching applications.  My circuit is based on always having a "1" or "0" gate output.  Many gates do NOT have tri-state outputs (open circuit).  One of course always has to pay attention not to let a static charge zap the gate while handling/soldering.

The lower PNP transistor pulls the gate down quickly to ground since an emitter follower has low output impedance.

Very glad you asked the question about "only kHz range".  One time I told a group of assembled Engineers from one of the biggest, most well known manufacturers that were having trouble with their switching power supply that their "only kHz" power supply was a 1 GHz amplifier overdriven in the kHz range.  They all laughed.  Well their laughing stopped later when they realized that I was correct.  I saved the as* of the project manager.

Fast rise/fall times has advantages:  it may create radiant energy and the FET switching losses are minimized.  If there is too much EMC / EMI / EMV, then your circuit is too big.  All current loops must be physically as small as possible.

Also remember a "ground" only exists at DC.

Regards, Earl
Hi Earl,
many thanks for your experience and your circuit.
Maybe it is only required to have a fast OFF switching in this circuit,so
your circuit still needs a low ohmic resistor like 100 Ohms from Gate to ground ?

or is the lower PNP transistor enough to pull the gate down ?

Well, we are working here in the Khz ranges and I ask myself,
if we really need this fast Nanosecond switching ?

Would be intersting to see, if the TPU-ECD would also work with
being controlled by 3 different sine frequencies..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 13, 2007, 11:18:09 PM
@ Earl

SM suggested in his posts, to build a "mini tube amp" using Mosfets, to power the TPU, to start with.  He said it would be faster all around, to see something happen.  Can you explain as an electronic guy, how close to what is being done, is to a mini tube amp?  Is there any similarites?  What would the difference be?

I think this is an important post of SM's.

Thank you,
Bruce

Bruce,

What everyone has been doing to date (excluding Lindsay perhaps) with their MOSFETs is not a mini tube amp.

Tube amplifier (or any amplifier) implies amplification, in the linear sense. MOSFETs used as switches are being used in a nonlinear sense.

SM used 3 tube oscillators to begin with, and this leaves open either sines or squares.

I believe the majority (including myself) lean towards square waves, or more precisely, pulses. Tubes can be used as switches also, but what exactly Steven meant by mini tube amp is for you to decide.

If he really meant amplifier, then we should be designing a MOSFET amplifier based on the old tube amp designs.

If he meant tube amp in the nonlinear sense, then we should be building tube switches.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 13, 2007, 11:46:50 PM
Earl,
you are right,
we want very fast  switching time.
So what kind of driver NPN and PNP transistors would you suggest ?
Is it best to use SMD types and hook and solder them directly
to the IRF 840 pins ?
Maybe we can then can just build this into the TPU.
Do we really need aluminium heat sinks if we just switch on
and off very fast ?
Then the IRF 840 MOSFETs should not get very hot at all, right ?

What about freewheel diodes across the controller coils ?
Are there any ? Have to study again the PDF file from Otto and Roberto.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Freezer on June 14, 2007, 12:01:15 AM
Is the wiring in the right orientation?  Im gonna try and model this thing for better a visual.
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3944/tpuc2sy0.jpg)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: maxc on June 14, 2007, 12:07:47 AM
Hi all ,
I've  tried zener diodes across the gate, ran off a coil to fire off the befm of the control coil. NO way to control the frequency (2.5MHZ) If i was reading the scope right(it's old) 6 volt rise in  .25ns :o

Mark
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
@Freezer,
looks very nicely,
but I guess the 2 pairs of dark yellow wires should be over each other, so
not horizontal beneath each other...if that matters ?
I just had another closer look at Otto and Roberto?s PDF file.
It seems the Phase and Zero line where the bulb is connected works
like a transmission line as it is itsself shorted out already by the moebius
coil setup.

I wonder what would happen, if we rather put into the shortout the bulb, than
to use a transmission line tapping of the moebius setup ?

Also I still don?t understand the meaning of using in each Control Coil 2 windings ?
What is the advantage of this ?

Regards, Stefan.
P.S. I see no freewheel diodes in all the circuit diagramms, so I wonder if the
freewheel diode inside the IRF 840 play any role in it and this "anomalous avalanche" mode ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 01:23:59 AM
@ Stefan

Otto said the heat sink ONLY was hot, but NOT the MOSFET.  He and Roberto were amazed by this, because where the Mosfet was seated was only warm to the touch, but the "exposed" aluminum was very hot, giving off electrons.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 14, 2007, 01:34:39 AM
??

OK, I have read most of the Steve Mark thread with the links to the video (early 2006).

I don't recall ever hearing him talk about hard fast switching edges; rather about a rotating magnetic field (typically using at least 3 poles to roll a field about). Traditionally, that is done using AC - though he might have been hiding some info.

I had also read his patent - which is using 6 poles to roll a field about <just checked - got it in front right now - yep, Fig.1 of US 2002/0125774 A1 has 6 poles>


And. Have read a book by Tom Bearden (Free Energy Generation) in which he discusses a circuit working by creating a deep magnetic field as hard and as fast as possible - for a short time - and gathering excess energy on the rebound.


Seems to me that - the replication is working more like TB's design then SM's.

OK, so - that is good, but now I am confused. How does this thing work???


Perhaps it is a hybrid - I have seen mention of a "turbine" effect on one of the other threads. That makes sense - a peak being driven about the coil.


*** Q: does it matter if the effect is understood before patenting it / certifying that the effect discussed is like Steve Marks?

*** This is important if it wants to be given away - if someone else can say "Aha! That is not how it works - our wonder patent (2% better) operates in a DIFFERENT manner thus not covered.....


:( now getting xconfused.

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 01:42:03 AM
@ Steve

This WILL NOT BE PATENTED.  Open Source my friend.  I too think it might be a type of Hybrid.  BUT it has the main things that SM said.  "circuit potential(mobius) Short pieces of wire (control coils) and three frequencies".

I too believe STRONGLY that down the road of "efficiency" we will find some how, AC at 7.23 HZ in the control wires, but we will see.  :)  I am replicating and then experiment with several ideas.  As will everyone else.  This is why it is so important to have as many replicators as possible.  Experiment and then post result, and we all build on that knowledge!

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 14, 2007, 02:06:14 AM
HI All,

I see a few replication pics and 3D visuals showing the Mobius coils taped to the outside of the support tubing.

Why not use 1/4" PFA tubing and run the lamp wire inside the the PFA? Then you can wind your control coils directly onto the PFA for closer coupling. That is how I'm constructing my version.

(I'm also considering another way - just cutting multiple stands of thin gage enameled copper wire equal length and running them through thin walled air tubing. Solder the tips on the ends to make my own version of Litz wire. I would make two 4" and two 6" versions, then connect them Mobius style and wrap control coil over the 6" tubes.)

I intend to build my PWM circuits without using a board.... All short lead hook and solder. My PWM network will be a small little ball of mess, being very tight and very little distance through which my charges need to physically displace. The control network will sit inside the center - hopefully safe inside the eye of the hurricane.

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 02:21:09 AM
@ Stefan

Otto said the heat sink ONLY was hot, but NOT the MOSFET.  He and Roberto were amazed by this, because where the Mosfet was seated was only warm to the touch, but the "exposed" aluminum was very hot, giving off electrons.

Cheers,
Bruce

Bruce,
when we look at the IRF 840 datasheet:
http://www.datasheet4u.com/download.php?id=284087
we can see that the outer case tab is connected to the drain.
So if the aluminium heatsink is heated via eddy currents and this will
release free electrons, do you think these will go additionally
into the circuit and will power the bulb ?

Roberto and Otto, did you have a physical connection of the case tab
of the MOSFET with the aluminium heatsink or did you use isolated glimmer
pieces, so there was no connection ?

If there was a connection and the free electrons from the
aluminiumheat sink would be sucked into the circuit,
then the heatsink would have itsself to be charged up positively,right ?
So does it do this ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 02:42:00 AM
@ Stefan,
Yes.  I could not tell you how, this tech being so new.  This is why I want to make another coil shortly wrapped in teflon tape.  This is also why SM recently wrote to Lindsay stating they had even tried oxidized copper wires.  Oxidation release many more free electrons.

You see, what I think, is what SM stated.  If the magnetic flux of the wire can be "disabled" then the electrons float free, and we get into all sort of new territory, including Einsteins SR (special relativity), and SM's own story of the canons trying to explain SR and the process of free electrons exploding into the air molecules producing more free electrons.  This IS the cascade effect or avalanche as some have called it.

Now, if anyone googles Mobius, you will find that it is used to "disable" the flux.  There is another way to do this I have found but will not post it yet, because I do not want to distract from the replication of Otto's at the moment.  I have told Jason of it.  But that is why ONLY with the mobius or similar method to disable the flux, will this work.  All of this fits SM's words.  But we will be tweaking mechanics and electronics for a long time.  Keep it simple is my only advice to our electronic guru's.

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 14, 2007, 02:53:20 AM
@ Stefan

Otto said the heat sink ONLY was hot, but NOT the MOSFET.  He and Roberto were amazed by this, because where the Mosfet was seated was only warm to the touch, but the "exposed" aluminum was very hot, giving off electrons.

Cheers,
Bruce

What tests have you done to be able to say the heated aluminium gives off substantial numbers of electrons ?

Do you any scientific/engineering references for this effect ?

Tubes have a vacuum for a reason. They also have high potential gradients for an accelerating field and optionally heated THIN wires.

I trust you're not just makinga parallel between a vacuum tube and hot piece of metal.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kames on June 14, 2007, 03:25:37 AM
@All

I am not trying to replicate this test, therefore, trying to stay quiet and avoid any arguing.
But when one says that a hot aluminum releases a lot of electrons or any other charged (even not charged) particles and one is working with it with ?naked? hands, one should have got cancer by this time if the output power of those released electrons can power  a 40W bulb.

Kames.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 14, 2007, 03:31:14 AM
??

I had also read his patent - which is using 6 poles to roll a field about <just checked - got it in front right now - yep, Fig.1 of US 2002/0125774 A1 has 6 poles>


That's not SM's patent as far as we know. The patents (several) are apparently on the control circuitry only, and not on the coil configuration at all. So I'd say this patent is not a candidate as SM's.

Quote
And. Have read a book by Tom Bearden (Free Energy Generation) in which he discusses a circuit working by creating a deep magnetic field as hard and as fast as possible - for a short time - and gathering excess energy on the rebound.


Seems to me that - the replication is working more like TB's design then SM's.

Possibly, but I have not seen that circuit. Sounds like capturing bemf, which in itself, is not free energy.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 14, 2007, 03:37:08 AM
Hi Bruce,

yep - a confusion about patent there - but I was trying to express a something.

Patents link to intellectual property - and serve (as far as I understand) 2 functions:

1) to say "this is the thing being discussed, and this is how it is built"
2) to make money either by manufacture or licensing to make.

Agreed people here (...?) not out for (2).

Would not it be best to use patents for purpose (1) - so it is logged and published for all around the world- and then Open Source it i.e. allow unrestricted use?

Otherwise there is no definition of the tech in public.

Me, I'd want patents + licensing for petty amounts - so that a reign is kept over those who will gouge or hijack the tech with their own patent (..and that will be tried, Open Source or no).

I see patents + Open Source as a way to liberty.

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 14, 2007, 03:42:17 AM
Hi z_p_e,


..if wrong patent then I need backtrack my sources. Will chase this one tomorrow. Coming up to 2:45 am here; time for zzzZZZzzz

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 14, 2007, 03:55:29 AM
The patent numbers and assignee names have never been released, so good luck.

You'll find a couple of audio patents if you search hard enough, but that's all. We've been through this drill a few times already.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 14, 2007, 03:58:46 AM
I will clear something up.
The alu gets hot because of the intense magnetic field. just like an old car speedo/power meter.EDDY currents!. The reason that the heatsink was hotter was because the source of the heat was the aluminum. It is NOT desirable...in fact it offers nothing to the process. Interesting all the same.

There is much to discover without getting confused about what is known.

Nobody knows exactly how the tpu works...the question is. WILL WE FIND OUT?...then HOW? ..by experimenting!!!!

Some of you may be content to really know THAT it works.

You are going to blow up a fet or two .....be prepared to do so.


See the diversions increase??

Lindsay





Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 04:04:18 AM
@ Bob.

I was quoting Otto and HIS belief that the aluminum is giving off electrons.  Aluminum when heated does give off electrons.  Otto also stated, that it will not work, or not work as well without the aluminum in the center.  I know that tubes are in a vacuum....LOL but again, this is NEW TECH and SM has created a type of ion generator, except from what SM tells us, these electrons are traveling at the speed of light and not "ON" the wires as electrons usually are...LOL  Thus the "Reaction" in the Reactor/TPU as they SLAM into air molecules, producing more electrons, and so on as you have the avalanche or cascade effect.  All of what I am saying is from what SM states in his posts, and what Otto has said about the aluminum.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 04:11:03 AM
@ Lindsay

When can we expect to see pictures of your replication efforts?  :)

Your comment on the aluminum is based on??  SM? Experimentation? Intuition?

I was simply quoting Otto and his thinking about the aluminum, for he feel VERY convinced that it is important.  Now, if you say SM thinks it is unimportant, that will mean something, and we need to know it is from him.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 04:24:56 AM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 04:26:41 AM
Okay, nice, I am seeing it !
Please fire it up !;)
Many thanks for this wonderful live event !
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 04:28:53 AM
@c0mster,
Do you have Skype, so you could make an audio conference, so one could hear also audio ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: TheOne on June 14, 2007, 04:46:45 AM
I am not sure if his cam can handle a lot of connection i see like one frame per 10 min :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 05:00:23 AM
I have about 1 frame every 2 seconds.

Maybe we should use an FTP to transfer webcam pictures, so more
people can see it in realtime.

Let me know privately before, then we can serve the
bandwidth via overunity.com and the webcam transmitter needs
only to upload one feed instead having to serve to all viewers multiple
streams... so we might get then a framerate of at least 10 frames/sec.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 05:00:45 AM
P.S.he is still fiddling with the connection setup.
Not yet fired it up...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: TheOne on June 14, 2007, 05:27:12 AM
Ok now i see one frame par 20sec approx
if you activate the FPS view that completely stop the camera to work
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 14, 2007, 05:50:49 AM
@ Lindsay

When can we expect to see pictures of your replication efforts?  :)

Your comment on the aluminum is based on??  SM? Experimentation? Intuition?

I was simply quoting Otto and his thinking about the aluminum, for he feel VERY convinced that it is important.  Now, if you say SM thinks it is unimportant, that will mean something, and we need to know it is from him.

Cheers,
Bruce
It aint personal Bruce.
I thought that I had already mentioned the alum problem.

We are all learning things...Its is a well known feature of alliminium I rarely say specifics unless the source is good...I dont refer to it any more .....No questions on this.

My efforts are with tubes...

Everytime I use mosfets I blow them up...

Pictures? When I think that they will be seen as to contribute to the wonderfull efforts of others..

all,

UEC meeting is arranged.


Better get some more replications up guys!



The more success...the more info will come...But perhaps not as soon as I would like.




BTW if any body wants to send something important to UEC,
PM the text in the next few days and I will pass it on, in person, when I get the opportunity.

Lindsay




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 05:58:38 AM
@ Lindsay

I understand, that was all I needed to know.  :)


I am going to think on some questions for the UEC and then PM them to you.  If you like them and think they will help us here, please share them.

Thank you,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 06:08:07 AM
Hi Lindsay,
good to hear, that you are now in contact with UEC.

Please just ask them the most logical questions:

1. What they want to do with the technology ?
2. Is there anything we can help to get this technology out to the people and not getting further suppressed ?
3. Maybe they can come forward and tell us the whole story in detail.
4. Do the old TPU prototypes from Steven Mark still exist und who is using them right now ?
5. Do they want to go commercial and do they look for manufacturing partners ?
6. Is there any governmental involvment to suppress this technology ?
7. When can I buy a TPU ?? ;D ;D ;D

Many thanks.

Regards,Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 14, 2007, 06:10:18 AM
@mannix

For those of us who are unfamilar with UEC (including myself), can you tell us if the control circuitry patent is assigned to UEC. If so what is the patent number and where was it filed & granted.

Also what is this UEC meeting going to be about?

Regards

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 07:14:25 AM
Wow , I didn?t expect such a large audience, I set my cam limit to 10 connections and it was full the whole time?.. I hope some of you where there when the 40 watt 120v globe lit a little. I hit around 40khz and when I touched the bulb it was hot, I tuned a little more and it started to glow. I need to tweak my driver so I can adjust the frequencies better. As well the darlinton pair puts out way to many amps so I need to resist the base. Thanks for the offer for the ftp, sorry the frame rate was slow , I?m on dsl and I am limited to 60k upload speed. I hope to do some more tweaking in the days to come but don?t know when I will be on. Just check the cam page every now and then and you might catch me. I set it as my home page here.  Once I have things tuned and the light is at what appears to be full brightness I will post a time and do a live demo to calculate the actual wattages.   

Thanks folks

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 14, 2007, 07:43:18 AM
Hi Cam,
many thanks for running this demo.

I hope you can work out the last bugs from your circuit.

Did you already see any superimposing waveforms like Jason posted ?

Yes, I could see the bulb barely glowing, but how much power was going into
the system then ?

Did you see any strange waveforms at all with your setup ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 07:50:07 AM
Hi Cam,

I would suggest using the same two frequencies that Jason found, 90 KHz and its Harmonic of 180 KHz.  If that works as well for you, as it did him, and you are feeling safe, try the third frequency of 270 KHz.  This is the intermodulation/sum of the two as your third frequency.

Lastly, I would suggest an aluminum screen between your TPU and equipment and your body.  ;)  Jason has it right.

Good job,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: passion1 on June 14, 2007, 08:14:45 AM
Otto/Ronette and other

Conratulations!! I am fascinated by what you have achieved!
I would like to start building a replication myself but is a bit concerned about all the warnings of danger. Could anyone please provide a short list of the critical safety measures (e.g. an aluminium screen etc.) that should be in place to protect a novice like myself from making any unnecessary accidents.

Thanks in advance!

Passion1
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 14, 2007, 09:35:43 AM
Any thing I do is about making this technology available..

The best way that I can .As I learn more, the methods will change...everybody do the same.. and we will have it.

A question that was put to me was . How long will it take for replicating people to be able to perfect the generator to the stage that Steven has?

I did not know the answer but i liked the challenge in the question..

Perhaps validation will work in their favor.

Im not answering about patents and people who want to copy....Its been covered many times..


Lindsasy





Title: Tubes + FETs + Square + Sine
Post by: Earl on June 14, 2007, 11:25:41 AM
Hi Bruce, hi All,

Bruce posted >>
SM suggested in his posts, to build a "mini tube amp" using Mosfets, to power the TPU, to start with.  He said it would be faster all around, to see something happen.  Can you explain as an electronic guy, how close to what is being done, is to a mini tube amp?  Is there any similarites?  What would the difference be?
I think this is an important post of SM's.
I don't know exactly what a "minitube" is, but it could refer to a RCA tube from the 60's.

The nuvistor was developed by RCA and it was first introduced in 1959. Nuvistors were the latest tube development at just about the same time as the introduction of the first integrated semiconductor circuits. A nuvistor is a miniature vacuum tube in a thimble sized metal case.

Nuvistors were also produced in Europe (by Philips/Mullard, Siemens and Lorenz) and in Russia.

Tektronix used nuvistors in the front-end of their oscilloscopes in the 1960's.

Neumann used the 13CW4 triode nuvistor in the famous U47 and U48 mics for a while when the Telefunken VF14 pentode wasn't available anymore. AKG used a nuvistor in the C12A mics and a RCA 7586 nuvistor in the C61 mics.

The first nuvistor to be produced by RCA was the 7586.

Musical Fidelity used nuvistors in their Nu-Vista 300 amplifiers and their Nu-Vista 3D CD players. Only 500 pieces of each were built.

Conrad Johnson used two 6CW4 nuvistors in their HV-1 and HV-2 Phono pre amps in the 1980's.

Nuvistors are mostly trodes, but one tetrode was also produced.
I am unable to dechipher what SM said in order to determine whether the exitation coils should receive sine or square/pulse waves.  Nor what is meant by "pure frequency"?  It is good that there are enough researchers here that some will try using pure sine waves, while others will try pulses.
Most high-quality audio oscillators have amplitude regulation which prohibits a fast change of frequency.  Sweeping frequencies is not so easy.  The only way I see arround this is to mix an HF variable frequency oscillator with a stable, fixed frequency and then use a good low-pass filter on the mixer output.  Or use a professional synthesizer.
It can not be excluded that there are more than one type of "TPU".  Photons at light frequencies were first produced by fire.  Nature used arc discharges.  Then incandescent lighting was invented, followed by LEDs, then laser diodes.  UFOs contactees routinely comment on lighting in the ships that appears to come from everywhere and nowhere:  it's just there - with no apparent source nor shadow.

It is possible that someone following SM's route will stumble onto another successful road, a "mutant hybrid clone" so to say.

Many will stumble over rocks, no matter which road is followed.  The important thing is not to give up.  Get up again, dust off, stand tall, and continue.  Failures do not exist unless you keep them to yourself; if you share them team knowledge is increased.
It should be clear that a lot of "brain busting" lies ahead of us.  For example in order to create a rotating magnetic field, four coils equispaced need phase offsets of 90 degrees, while 3 equispaced coils need electrical phase shifts of 120 degrees.  just dumping random frequencies and/or random phases into coils will not create a rotating magnetic field.
A major question is:  does the TPU need a rotating magnetic field?  If yes, then in my opinion, no one is doing it.

I have released one idea, along with concrete schematics, and will shortly be releasing other schematics.

If a rotating magnetic field is not necessary to operation, then random pulses are OK.  I will also be releasing concrete examples and schematics for random pulse generation.
It is a pleasure to see so many people cooperating in a dedicated manner to achieve a common goal, a goal that is getting more urgent every day.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 14, 2007, 11:42:06 AM
Hokay,

Back in the world. This re the Steve Mark device patent and that patent number I quoted.

My interest in SM's work starts when I saw it here back around April 2006, and during that time found links appropriate. Don't ask me the details though, over a year ago - this is just what I came up with at the time.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020125774'.PGNR.&OS=DN/20020125774&RS=DN/20020125774

The Continuous Electrical Generator. Now this could be a different thing and someone elses work, but it looks and is described the same. I expect I found a link here and just went all over the web like a mad snail. Where I heard of it first <checks>

Um, try this one:

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=149

that's in my Steve Mark notes too. Has the link to the same patent.

Got a pretty big pic of the front page - trying to attach.

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 14, 2007, 11:55:23 AM
..after reading Earl's post:

Note that the device above is all about rotating fields. With this unit and 6 poles, a well-shaped field with a smooth AC profile (no spikes) can be formed and rolled about the core.

Suspect the replication has found a new method - rocking not rolling a magnetic field.

If that be the case the replication may work with a magnet replacing the 12v coil.

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: TheOne on June 14, 2007, 03:19:07 PM
From a noob point of view (me), someone thinked about using magnetite/blacksand for the core of the tube/ring?

Maybe they are something missing, blacksand are highly reactive to magnetic field
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Pegasus on June 14, 2007, 03:24:17 PM
Anyone here can post a circuit schematic of a three phase inverter that one can drive from a variable frequency source?
Thank you.
Regards,
Pegasus
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 14, 2007, 04:04:43 PM
Any thing I do is about making this technology available..

The best way that I can .As I learn more, the methods will change...everybody do the same.. and we will have it.

A question that was put to me was . How long will it take for replicating people to be able to perfect the generator to the stage that Steven has?

I did not know the answer but i liked the challenge in the question..

Perhaps validation will work in their favor.

Im not answering about patents and people who want to copy....Its been covered many times..


Lindsasy







A few more months is my guess. Now that we have a foundation to work from, it shouldn't be that long. I've already heard about some great ideas to drop power consumption and then to close the loop. We would still need a starter battery with those suggestions.

Starting it with the swipe of a magnet... Not sure, on that one, it could be a while.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 04:18:06 PM
Wow, alot of new folks.

I suggest every one read the NEW FAQ thread set up by Stefan.  Roberto has some good advice.

Also, Jason sent me a message to let everyone know that he has not dropped off of the face of the planet, :)  but is leaving town for the weekend.  BUT when he returns on Monday, he will be attacking the ECD head on.

Also, I will allow Jason to give you details, but he has alot to say to improve the controller, but not in a way you think.  He also has a lot to say about the frequencies and BEMF.  He also has a lot to say about his last tests.... LOL  :)  I hope I wet your appetite..  Oh, and some of the doubters out there.... You are on the verge of being made believers very soon.  This ECD is revolutionary as you will see in due time.

So, replicate, STICK to Roberto's Circuit that WE KNOW WORKS, for now.  What we need some design circuits on, is for some good, cheap oscillators that will become the standard for replication.  We have three signal generator kits but they go up to only 100 KHz.  If someone can post a full TESTED circuit for these oscillators, that would help me and I think many others.

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 05:24:15 PM
Hi Cam,
many thanks for running this demo.

I hope you can work out the last bugs from your circuit.

Did you already see any superimposing waveforms like Jason posted ?

Yes, I could see the bulb barely glowing, but how much power was going into
the system then ?

Did you see any strange waveforms at all with your setup ?
Many thanks.

Stefan
To answer your questions
I know others are using mosfets but what I have found is as long as you can get a crisp square wave with a fast rise and fall time you get the best results, be it a spark gap, mosfet or npn transistor. I also found that 3amps seems to be a max amperage you want to use into the tpu, anything above this and the results are lessened. I pumped up to 8 amps with my darlington pair. As far as superimposing waves go yes I seen lots of noise and I scoped the transistor and seen it was being hit with a BEMF pulse which btw was not just a spike but was more square in nature about 65V. My am radio I have under the bench also picked up white noise from the tpu. I used my RV inverter to check the draw on a 12v bike battery and its 12 v at 3.3 amps to light the 40watt bulb full. Very efficient inverter. When I seen the bulb start to glow with the tpu I was using 5 amps at a frequency of 40k which seems to be a lower harmonic, testing with Jason confirms this. The bulb filament seem to glow white and actually looked blue in the camera. I spread out the wave form I was seeing the oscillation was roughly 2.2MHz with other waves around 1mhz. According to Otto?s document the scope shots matched. Today I will drive the trannies with a function genny instead of the 555 timer so I can fine tune the frequency and then adapt that to my 555 output. I use a copper screen around the tpu incase of RF burns, if you research RF burns you will see copper is used to protect persons from burns. As well I have a 10amp fuse on the battery but I think the wire will burn up before it hits that point.

I did try adding 2 frequencies and the amps jumped to 7 but the frequency on the second was fighting the first so I got less results. As well I have a floating ball compass in the middle of the TPU but did not see any spin yet. But we need 3 frequencies matched properly to achieve this. I will be tweaking and testing over the next few days and also constructing a mosfet driver setup. Cross your fingers, so far results show a very in efficient inverter but I am hoping once the frequencies are tuned and the amps to drive are adjustable we can get some positive results.

I would just like to say I don?t believe I seen Otto say he achieved OU and no one has actually measured draw vs output properly yet to verify the efficiency. My goal is to light the light to full brightness using a battery, not a mains power supply, I have been fooled many times in the past by bad mains grounds seeping 120v into coils and etc.

Once I achieve my goal I will post a video with detailed information showing the findings.         

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 14, 2007, 05:28:22 PM
Quote from: Mannix
UEC meeting is arranged. 

I'm surprised you were able to get through with the recently increased sunspot activity.

"The French Underground"

Quote from: Mannix
The best way that I can .As I learn more, the methods will change...everybody do the same.. and we will have it.     

So now its time to change the process of what is already known and has already been done?   So they are working for you then?  As you learn more?  Why dont you just learn more from uec? After all they have several working units.

Quote from: Mannix
A question that was put to me was . How long will it take for replicating people to be able to perfect the generator to the stage that Steven has?

I did not know the answer but i liked the challenge in the question..

Perhaps validation will work in their favor. 

Yes perhaps!

Here is my question for uec:

When do we get to see a true rms test with the output DC rectified and loaded up, running through capacitor filtering with a scope attached to any input and another attached to the unfiltered and filtered output? 

Validation would be a good thing but i am sure there is some reason that you or they cannot or are unwilling to do that right?!!!

Quote from: Mannix
Im not answering about patents and people who want to copy....Its been covered many times.
Lindsasy 

Wow!  This site is full of patents that people are copying for experimentation purposes, i am so happy that you have come to jesus and decided that the "marks" free energy device deserves your respect while all the other inventors on this site do not.


To all you builders out here, if you have faith in this project by all means keep on trucking and go for it.   I do not want to kill your golden goose.   But to everyone, i would demand a true rms test as anyone can create short pulses and shove them into a light bulb to give the appearance of more power out than is actually there.

Remember power is in watts and watts happens over time so no matter how bright that bulb is that little spike has to be averaged over time and that is a common circuit for saving battery power when lighting an led.   I have built and used this same circuit myself.

You can do this very cheaply with a squarewave generator and an led.  give it say a 6 volt pulse with a width of 10 milliseconds.  As soon as the frequency is greator than 250 cycles it "appears" to be on all the time when in fact is is being switched on and off at high frequency.   This is just an example of why i ask for the rms test!!!  It will get rid of any high frequency pulses that can be used to falsify results.

In an LED it is the speed because your eye cannot see it flickering faster than 250 times per second.  For a light bulb the filament cannot cool off fast enough.

So far the closest anyone has truthfully come to accomplishing this is the creation of a "high q transformer".  (i can see the scalar weapons being pointed at me now!!) 

BUT on the bright side-----------

If I am wrong I will buy a case of any beer of your choice that marks or uec will never ever provide a fool proof test for you, simple as it is to do so!   (but i cannot wait to hear lindsays creative reason why not!)

For those of you who believe in this great go for it, i am not slamming anyone here, as far as uec is concerned "provide real evidence" that it works.  That is all i ask!  So far what you have provided for evidence that it works is garbage.  Think "scope" "rectified" "filtered output" "noninductive load"!!!  Then you will have my "positive" attention.

Lighting light bulbs, (frosted no less), running through an invertor  simply does not cut it for anyone who knows how easily this sort of thing is to fake.

For those of you who believe in this with all your heart and soul by all means keep on trucking ok!  This is a conversation for the most part between me and Mr Lindsay for the most part and not meant to discourage anyone here so please refrain from flaming me.

Those are the questions I have for Mister Lindsay and the unknown electrical club.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 14, 2007, 05:31:18 PM
You are on the verge of being made believers very soon.


i do hope you are right!  but it will take nothing less than a true rms test to prove it to me k?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 14, 2007, 05:36:51 PM
I did try adding 2 frequencies and the amps jumped to 7 but the frequency on the second was fighting the first so I got less results. As well I have a floating ball compass in the middle of the TPU but did not see any spin yet. But we need 3 frequencies matched properly to achieve this.
Cam
you
It has been some time since i read that long posting with all the marks comments but if i remember correctly he said something to the effect that you have to line up all the frequencies or the harmonics or something along those lines.

Of course i asked the question a long time ago:  How does any one plan on doing that?

maybe i read it wrong or misinterpreted it.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 14, 2007, 05:42:04 PM


...... and the unknown electrical club.

Hi koko:

Even though I disagree with most of your other rants, I've got to give you this one!
LOL

cheers
chrisC

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 05:54:09 PM
I thought I just stated in my last post that true input and output wattage needs to be determined, we need to do this be it windows motor, that guy with the newman motor, or the SM device. Please be patient, myself and the others are working real hard to provide real evidence. The end result = output cap same farad as input cap. Input cap charged ? unit started ? output caps exceeds voltage of input cap or feedback blows input cap as well as output. No battery should be needed in any of these devices. Caps love radiant energy.  

@kokomoj0 How does any one plan on doing that?  
 
If you notice Otto?s wiring diagram you will see that really we are sending the pulses into a common ground. To create the hash we need 3 timers out of sync. The goal it to provide a hash of waves that create a mess or do not quite blend, be it 103.7 degrees out of phase but may be in harmonic at higher values.  But I will not state this is correct until I test it.

Cheers
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 14, 2007, 06:04:40 PM

1 Watt = 1 Joule / 1 sec

1 Joule per second equals 1 Watt.

As you can all easily see by the calculator in the link below that using filte5red DC will in fact give accurate answers.
 
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

If you have a pulse that is 10 volts perfectly square wave for 1 millisecond into a 10 ohm load that yields 10 watts, but here is the catch it is 10 watts for only 1 millisecond and there are 1000 milliseconds in 1 sec.

So an equivalent DC wattage then would require 1000 1Ms pulses with no gaps or pure DC.

Then:
The real power is 10/1000 = .01 watts rms and rms wattage is the equivalent dc wattage or what is known as "true power" in the industry for those who are not familiar with it.

So there is where I am coming from.


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 14, 2007, 06:07:25 PM
I thought I just stated in my last post that true input and output wattage needs to be determined, we need to do this be it windows motor, that guy with the newman motor, or the SM device. Please be patient, myself and the others are working real hard to provide real evidence. 

Kool!  i will have a cold one then and await your results  :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 06:15:26 PM
@ Com

Your control coils looked to be made from single strand magnetic wire.  Is this the case?  The replication calls for STRANDED.

Also 7 amps output from your P/S in wire rated at 2.2 amps....Hmm....and they did not melt and burn up...hmm....I wonder why!  LOL  Think about it! :)

And besides this, you used a different circuit then the one posted.  So this IS NOT a replication but your own ideas mixed with a properly wound coil.  PLEASE RE READ Roberto on the NEW FAQ THREAD and then build it EXACTLY TO SPECS and then post.



Keeping it honest,
Bruce   ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 14, 2007, 06:26:10 PM
I thought I just stated in my last post that true input and output wattage needs to be determined, we need to do this be it windows motor, that guy with the newman motor, or the SM device. Please be patient, myself and the others are working real hard to provide real evidence. 

Kool!  i will have a cold one then and await your results  :)

Hey Koko, we're all in a quest for answers here. You seem very knowlegable and capable. Any help testing would be appreciated. It's not very hard to build, and doesn't take much time/money. At this point, I have to say, the position you have taken from the very start, and your contemptuous attitude is not very conducive to someone wanting to perform tests for you, while you mock us, and what we've done. As far as we know, we could go ahead and perform your tests, and you would not accept them anyway, as you probably view us as being biased. Perhaps the tests would be more believable to you, if you performed them for yourself? You after all would be the most logical to perform those tests, as you would no doubt be doing it from a different perspective, and could perhaps be more objective?

Ideally it would be good to just drop the device off at some highschool or college, and have them perform the tests, as they probably have not heard of the device and have formed no opinions whatsoever.

Perhaps, you could save everyone a whole bunch of time by quantifying, and qualifying output?

You would definitely satisfy a lot of curiosity, and would be doing the community a favor.

BTW I'm a brewer and kindof a beer snob. I don't think you wanna spend the kinda money it would take to buy me a case of my favorite beer.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 14, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
Bruce:

As far as I know (I may be wrong), there is no electrical difference between the stranded and un-stranded magnet wire. Stranded wire is structurally better made and will not kink easily(?), for all intents and purposes they are the same, I think.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 14, 2007, 06:40:14 PM
@ Com

Your control coils looked to be made from single strand magnetic wire.  Is this the case?  The replication calls for STRANDED.

no, and wrong
Quote

Also 7 amps output from your P/S in wire rated at 2.2 amps....Hmm....and they did not melt and burn up...hmm....I wonder why!  LOL  Think about it! :)

And besides this, you used a different circuit then the one posted.  So this IS NOT a replication but your own ideas mixed with a properly wound coil.  PLEASE RE READ Roberto on the NEW FAQ THREAD and then build it EXACTLY TO SPECS and then post.


Keeping it honest,
Bruce   ;)

I don't know what you were looking at, Bruce, but Cam's is almost identical to Jason's. Oh, and he HAS read it, and has built it very close to specs. The specs which you apparently MISREAD!

The reason I say "very close" instead of "exactly", is because we're not using european wire guagues, and there are some vaugeries that have yet to be addressed in the document. Can you point them out? Oh, and by the way, he did light a bulb.

Or can I ask how your replication is coming? If you want to critisize someone about their build and tell them to not post until they have built "exactly to specs"(all in caps) perhaps you should refrain from posting until you have built "exactly to specs", and tested? And perhaps you should go back and read it AGAIN! instead of skimming it, and calling that good enough. Reading comprehension is your friend.

This should be entertaining. Just keeping it honest you know.

;)  Rich


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2007, 06:47:29 PM
@otto

Good, good and good. I will build it. It is easier than to ask a million questions that I have runing in my mind. This WILL be fun. I'll make the protective screen first. I want to keep my inerds intack.

@Stefan

Can you add a post in the Q&A section giving the link to the pdf document(s) and update as new doc are made..

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2235.0;attach=95207

Plus here is a question to Otto.
1) Did you use the 22.5mm per inch rule when calculating the coil wire lengths.

@chrisC
I have a pdf document that I always thought was a patent from SM. I will post it here when I get back to my home computer later today.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 06:49:12 PM
@ Com

Your control coils looked to be made from single strand magnetic wire.  Is this the case?  The replication calls for STRANDED.

Also 7 amps output from your P/S in wire rated at 2.2 amps....Hmm....and they did not melt and burn up...hmm....I wonder why!  LOL  Think about it! :)


Say what, control coils are bifilar single strand primary and secondary... well that?s what I read, and collector around the rigs are multi strand. My TPU is a clone of Jason?s and I followed the tpu pdf. Have I got something wrong? Then both me and Jason got it wrong. The driving ctc, well as long as we get the pulse right , Jason was using a function generator with 50% duty mosfets. Mosfet, NPN transistor, hand switch <well maybe 180k by hand is not possible> ?.., many ways to achieve the same result. My power supply is a 12volt motorbike battery. Do you know how many amps those puppies can put out? Try it with a 50amp meter and hook it direct for a split second and see. Try to see how long you can short 28meg wire before it burns up. I have done all these tests. Gad if I can get the same results as Otto or Jason using just a battery not a mains power supply then I must have something right?. At least I hope so ;)

I guess as long as I achieve the same results as Otto, Roberto, Jason and anyone else trying it I should be ok?. If not I?ll start again.


Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 14, 2007, 07:18:36 PM
Hello all,

@wattsup

I tried with 22,5mm, hmmm....as Im waiting for my scope I cant answer exactly. 22,5mm for the inch and then same weight for primary and secondary, again,hmmm....

Looks good but as I cant see my signals...sorry.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 14, 2007, 07:33:54 PM
Regarding questions to UEC ...

@ Lindsay,

I am very curious why UEC has not made the TPU available to the public either by commercially making a product for sale, or at least licensing it out to those who will manufacture it?

The SM demonstration videos were made ten years ago, yet UEC has apparently done nothing substantial with the patent. From my point of view, the patent seems to have degraded into a means to essentially gag SM and suppress the technology from being brought to market.

Isn't it reasonable to expect UEC to produce a product? And if they do not have the deep pocket backing and factory assests, then why not at least give other enterprises the right to manufacture?

If Radiant Energy technology was allowed to supersede Fossil Fuel energy, all these recent wars in the Balkans and Middle East would possibly never have happened. I mean, isn't "The War of Terror" essentially a disguised Resource War for domination of what's left of the "Oil Patch"?

I firmly believe that energy emancipation is the most fundamental issue that prevents human civilization from making the next big leap forward. So why not change the world for the better? What is there to fear? Less pollution? Less poverty? Less war? Potentially diminished CO2 emissions that may factor into climate change?

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 14, 2007, 08:03:39 PM

.....If Radiant Energy technology was allowed to supersede Fossil Fuel energy, all these recent wars in the Balkans and Middle East would possibly never have happened. I mean, isn't "The War of Terror" essentially a disguised Resource War for domination of what's left of the "Oil Patch"?

I firmly believe that energy emancipation is the most fundamental issue that prevents human civilization from making the next big leap forward. So why not change the world for the better? What is there to fear? Less pollution? Less poverty? Less war? Potentially diminished CO2 emissions that may factor into climate change?

Robby


The whole western world particularly, and many other countries have economies that rely on the printing of the dollar. The only reason the dollar has any value is because trading and buying of the majority of the world's oil is in dollars. Therefore countries have to hold reserves of dollars. This whole scenario holds up a massive amount of debt. There is also staggering amounts of debt in all the energy infrastructure.

Now move to a scenario where 'free' energy become available. Previously prosperous countries will be saddled with huge amount of debt, and ironically move into third world status. Countries with natural resources such as Africa and Australia (whay hay!!) will benefit the most, as will third world countries without vast amounts of debt.

India, Africa, China, Russia will become dominant forces in the world. Wealthy, powerful, political families that have their wealth based on oil will be decimated.

In the short term, the social upheaval will be huge. This, coupled with the loss of wealth and power is what fuels the current status quo, and prevents this sort of technology getting out.

However, global warming, oil shortages, potable water shortages (free energy would solve this overnight as saltwater could be desalinated) means the world has to go through this 'burning' in order for the phoenix to rise out of the ashes, so to speak.

Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 14, 2007, 08:20:48 PM
Lindsay:

I know you don't want to go down the "patent" path since you asserted it's already been discussed much. Somehow, I have not been able to find (at least in the USPTO public pair database) anything related to UEC as the assigned company and the only probable reference to SM is the patent on the semiconductor equipment patent (6,015,476) assigned to Applied Materials, if this is the real Steve Marks of the renown TPU!

The point is in any patented technology is for the inventor to publically disclose the invention in exchange for exclusivity of 15/20 years. So what is the big deal of disclosing where and what the supposedly patented technology is? If it is indeed patented?

This is why I am at a loss why this secrecy is in place, especially coming from you! Aren't you on the side of peopel fro free energy?

cheers

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 14, 2007, 08:45:49 PM
Jason wrote:
Quote
Anyone who knows anything about transformers (especially pulse transformers) will tell you that the power is only transferred to the secondary coil when the square wave is switched on and off. In my case, ANY power the bulb would get from the power supply would HAVE to be transferred in the 46 ns that it takes for my MOSFET drivers to switch on the FETS, and an additional 46 or so ns to turn it off! the other tons of ms that the square wave is on (and drawing loads of current) is all a complete waste of the input power! I am driving my FETs with a 50% duty cycle square wave and this will be the first thing that I correct.

Jason, this is not correct.

If you recall, the RMS value of a 50% duty-cycle square wave is the Vpeak value.

If you did not have those ms of "ON-TIME", then the power transferred to the secondary would be diminished by the ratio of the duty cycle. So anything lower than 50% will decrease the output accordingly.

You may be wasting power, but ONLY if your coil is being fully energized BEFORE the pulse goes LO again. This time constant is determined by the inductance and series resistance of the coil you are driving, and the ON-TIME can be optimized by using 5X that time constant tau.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 08:49:54 PM
@ Rich

My replication is coming along fine, unfortunately I live in a VERY rural area and have to Order everything online.  We have parts arriving tomorrow and wire coming in Monday for my last control coil.

The document does give metric and it is difficult (impossible) to find those EXACT sizes here in the US. 

Okay, I found the problem.  In the first download I have it states that the control coils are the stated gauge, copper stranded.  In the Otto Roberto pdf it states that it is simply copper enameled.  Well that would have made my life easier finding magnetic wire over the wire I have, but Oh well.  So Com, my apologies for my wire confusion! LOL


Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 14, 2007, 08:54:18 PM
Lindsay:

I know you don't want to go down the "patent" path since you asserted it's already been discussed much. Somehow, I have not been able to find (at least in the USPTO public pair database) anything related to UEC as the assigned company and the only probable reference to SM is the patent on the semiconductor equipment patent (6,015,476) assigned to Applied Materials, if this is the real Steve Marks of the renown TPU!

The point is in any patented technology is for the inventor to publically disclose the invention in exchange for exclusivity of 15/20 years. So what is the big deal of disclosing where and what the supposedly patented technology is? If it is indeed patented?

This is why I am at a loss why this secrecy is in place, especially coming from you! Aren't you on the side of peopel fro free energy?

cheers

chrisC

First the patent is for the control unit. Not the entire unit. Which would amount to a triple headed pulse generator, with protections built in, such as heat and overvoltage. Possibly a way to measure and monitor, and auto adjust frequencies in order to keep the unit stable.

With time we'll have this.

Second, Patents rarely give enough info in order to replicate. Most of the time, just enough to prove it's unique, and what it does. With a few drawings in order to provide prior art, in the case of patent infringements.

Thirdly since it's just the control unit, we probably wouldn't have any idea how it closes the loop or self-powers since very little, if any reference to the coils will be present. And since the coils determine the frequencies, it probably will not mention any specific frequencies. No help there.
Moot point.

I'm sure it will come out eventually. Just no need for it, and most likely, some kind of solemn oath was sworn in order to stay on their good side in order to be able to perhaps get more info out of them from time to time. No point in burning bridges. It's likely, more beneficial to us for lindsay to NOT tell us, and NOT burn that bridge at the moment.

However, if you still wish to find out the patent, US patents would NOT be the place to look.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 14, 2007, 09:01:58 PM
@ Rich

My replication is coming along fine, unfortunately I live in a VERY rural area and have to Order everything online.  We have parts arriving tomorrow and wire coming in Monday for my last control coil.

The document does give metric and it is difficult (impossible) to find those EXACT sizes here in the US.  But it does say, stranded.  If it does not matter, then it should perhaps be made clearer.


Cheers,
Bruce

I just did a search for the word "stranded" in their PDF, and you know what? In 55 pages, it doesn't come up one single time.

The collector is stranded, not the controls. Controls are mag wire. Good luck finding stranded in those gauges.

Collector is Lamp wire, or speaker wire. Controls are 24 and 27 gauge, primary and secondary respectively MAG WIRE. Wound BIFILAR until the primary runs out, then finish winding the secondary.

NOW, Roberto, DID say that perhaps Litz could be, and perhaps would be, beneficial, if used in the controls instead of this arrangment, due to the many strands in parallel, and them being tightly compressed into a small space. However, it was untested.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 14, 2007, 09:05:49 PM
Rich,

I have one document that said the size wire stranded, and the new pdf that says copper enameled.  So it was my bad for not see the discrepency and using the older doc for myself.

I will use the Thin stranded wire that I have for my control coils.  It was hard to find, so I will try it and see if it makes a difference.

Thank you, :)  Peace!  LOL
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 14, 2007, 09:09:56 PM
Rich:

Thanks for the inputs. My intent was not to put Lindsay in a difficult position. If the technology (controller or not) is indeed patented under a different assignee or the subject matter is classified under a different class/sub class in another country other than the US or PCT, then that is OK, in the sense that if the patent protection does not include the US or Europe, then maybe only the Australians(?) will not be permitted to copy the design per se?

I've been going through the ups and downs of my own patents, especially when it comes down to getting infringers to take license! Well, when it gets down to real $, the ugly side of humanity often shows the true side!

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 14, 2007, 09:18:10 PM
Z_P_E
You are correct, if the pulse width is less the secondary reacts to the change just as if the pulse is to long, or if there is a dc offset. The spikes in the tpu spread out are the oscillations in the coils. The pulse I believe, needs to have a correlation with the length of the primary. 4 things to consider 1: the rise time to create a changing voltage 2: fall time related to rise time 3: pulse duration and 4: off duration or 3 & 4 =duty. Tesla used a dampened sine wave in his primary coils to allow the secondary to ring. Were Tesla's coils not weight constant? He used a spark gap to create a fast rising voltage with short on time. If you study a bit on static electricity you will see it is only electricity when the electron in neg charge item is finding it?s buddy the proton. I could go on and on but I think it?s time for me to be quiet and get back to the lab.   ;)


Here is the pdf I followed

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2007, 10:51:31 PM
@anyone

On the circuit diagram there are 7 grounding signs. Are all these going to the 12vdc (8th) ground terminal or are some isolated to another power source. I need to know this to figure out how and when the bemf can travel back to the void.

It would have been good to show the actual grounds connecting, like Tesla or Erfinder circuit never uses a simple ground sign. The shown grounds indicate a ground to a physical mass like a chassis. This is part of the circuit and is important to understand how the bemf gets its cue to implode back into the void.

Also on the circuit there seems to be three redundant lines leading to the ZERO point from the primary to secondary junctions. Those junctions can simply be parallelled leading to the Zero and the frequencies can be parrelled leading to the Zero also. It would remove a lot of clutter from the circuit. Unless I see this wrong in which case please clarify is possible. You know, not all of us are electronic wizards, but we do have enough background to understand and apply.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 14, 2007, 11:35:02 PM
Hi All,
I think I have figured out what it was that the guy from Macedonia may have been trying describe to us, a double diode that looks like a mosfet would be ideal if used as shown and sorts out numerous problems of back emf and so forth:



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 15, 2007, 12:57:21 AM
Lindsay:

I know you don't want to go down the "patent" path since you asserted it's already been discussed much. Somehow, I have not been able to find (at least in the USPTO public pair database) anything related to UEC as the assigned company and the only probable reference to SM is the patent on the semiconductor equipment patent (6,015,476) assigned to Applied Materials, if this is the real Steve Marks of the renown TPU!

The point is in any patented technology is for the inventor to publically disclose the invention in exchange for exclusivity of 15/20 years. So what is the big deal of disclosing where and what the supposedly patented technology is? If it is indeed patented?

This is why I am at a loss why this secrecy is in place, especially coming from you! Aren't you on the side of peopel fro free energy?

cheers

chrisC


Aussie?
http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/patents/search_index.shtml
Russia?
http://patentsfromru.com/
Britain?
http://users.aber.ac.uk/dgw/patent.htm
Japan?
http://www.jpo.go.jp/
http://www.ptranslation.com/find-japanese-patents.htm
Philipines?
http://www.ipophil.gov.ph/PatSearch/
China?
http://www.wanfangdata.com/patent/advanced_search.asp
Africa?
http://www.svw.co.za/et-sa-patent-office.html
New Zealand?
http://www.iponz.govt.nz/pls/web/dbssiten.main

The world:
https://www2.delphion.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/IPN/IPNmandreg.d2w/report?regfrom=funlim&referal=freetrial315

The rest:
http://members.pcug.org.au/~rossco/patentsearching.htm

good luck man!



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 15, 2007, 01:03:41 AM
Hello Everyone,

Sorry I have been so long getting back with you. I have been very busy with other non-TPU related stuff and haven't been keeping up on the thread. I am still working on some modifications to my control circuit to make it more efficient, and thought I would respond to ZPE's response to my recent post since he makes some important points:

Jason wrote:
Quote
Anyone who knows anything about transformers (especially pulse transformers) will tell you that the power is only transferred to the secondary coil when the square wave is switched on and off. In my case, ANY power the bulb would get from the power supply would HAVE to be transferred in the 46 ns that it takes for my MOSFET drivers to switch on the FETS, and an additional 46 or so ns to turn it off! the other tons of ms that the square wave is on (and drawing loads of current) is all a complete waste of the input power! I am driving my FETs with a 50% duty cycle square wave and this will be the first thing that I correct.

Jason, this is not correct.

If you recall, the RMS value of a 50% duty-cycle square wave is the Vpeak value.

If you did not have those ms of "ON-TIME", then the power transferred to the secondary would be diminished by the ratio of the duty cycle. So anything lower than 50% will decrease the output accordingly.

You may be wasting power, but ONLY if your coil is being fully energized BEFORE the pulse goes LO again. This time constant is determined by the inductance and series resistance of the coil you are driving, and the ON-TIME can be optimized by using 5X that time constant tau.

Darren

Darren,

You make some valid points about the on-time being important to the amount of power induced from the primary to the secondary. But there is one important point that a lot of people miss when talking about the pulse transformers. It is true that we only want to supply enough energy to load the magnetic field of the coil, and only that amount of energy. Any more on-time from the square wave and it will simply be wasted to ground since the magnetic field can only hold so much. BUT what we need to do is load the magnetic field completely, and then capture the collapsing field spike when the field diminishes. It is common knowledge that one can get 50-90% of the input energy back just from the BEMF spike that results. But this is only true if we input only enough energy to saturate the magnetic field and no more.

If we do this, then we can produce the required high voltage spikes on the secondary coil and ultimately pay only for the resistive losses in the primary coil. There is much more to this and I have spoken extensively about this in earlier threads. For those interested, please see this link:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.msg33712.html#msg33712

The other thing we all need to remember is that there is another event that takes place when the sharp rise time happens Before the current starts to flow to even load the magnetic field. There is a sharp E-field gradient produced when the voltage suddenly switches high on the coil, and there are effects in the space of the coil and on the electrons in the coil as a result of this. So it is really not just a simple matter of loading and unloading magnetic fields to transfer energy.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 15, 2007, 01:14:41 AM
kokomo:

Thanks for the links. It wasn't that I can't be bothered to find the links. My point was, if indeed the controller or whatever else has been patented, then it is the public's right to know. It's not even about copying patented technology. Every invention should have been an improvement (supposedly distinctive & unobvious) over prior art.

Hence, whether it is UEC or SM himself or that lawyer, there is only one truth and that truth should not be "secret" if indeed patented. That's all really.

Thanks
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 15, 2007, 04:20:05 AM
Rich,

Thanks ..you saved me ..twice!

All,
Im not surprised that some want to  crucify me , I expect it!

It still hurts a bit though..

Lindsay
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 15, 2007, 04:34:19 AM
As an aid in helping me determine the theory of operation for Otto's and Roberto's device, I drew their circuit out in a manner that seems a little simpler....for me anyway. It's not too pretty, but it is hopefully clear and makes sense.

Just thought others might benefit by seeing it drawn a different way.

I won't go into the theory of operation, but one may notice that all 3 primaries, and all 3 secondaries are in parallel.

Any one of the 3 switches will energize all 3 primaries, somewhat in an "OR" fashion.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on June 15, 2007, 05:17:19 AM
What? No fuses at the output yet?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 15, 2007, 05:57:11 AM
wow .. gone for a few days .. and the world has changed ..  :D

glad to see a full scientific paper from otto/ronotte .. good work ..

@Mannix .. no one is trying to crucify you .. WE ALL WANT FREE ENERGY .. although i agree w/ Gn0sis .. i feel so bad at heart thinking about all the reasons why the world has become as it is at the moment .. .. u say crucified as if it is bad .. but then Christians thank Jesus for being crucified.

as is very much evident from SM's words from his meeting w/ USA agents in his last few letters to u, USA is very much into controlling UEC and this technology. It isnt a guess, it is a fact.

another obvious .. if u are going to do business with these guys they will make u sign away your life so that u can "stay in the loop" .. so if u want to play devil's advocate, dont be surprised at the ending.

I believe in FULL DISCLOSURE. some technologies may be harmful if not used correctly .. but everything in life is in that category ..

I fully back Steven Greer in his effort to get this technology disclosed. He has the backing of hundreds of high level insiders .. not a small thing to do. ... And here is UEC, SM, Gov agents (who are pawns), private corporations etc playing with words and legal matters .. i say !@#$ that. It is time we shed our kiddie clothes and donned the garb of maturity .. heavens knows, humanity has earned it. All this secrecy has demented the progress of human evolution. Scientists have been forced to reinvent the wheel for decades only to have done so in vain. so sad.

i can go on and on .. but i will shut up .. I understand SM perspective .. i understand your perspective .. most of use here do this already .. we just don't think it is the "right" way to go about.

I know this isn't the arena for this type of debate .. but your response prompted such a rebuttal.

ABOUT the questions to UEC
1. What is the company's FULL name?
2. What do they think about the term "Humanity"?
Question to SM:
1. Why o Why this mary-go-round? (and no, please dont say u have to know how the tech works to use it .. i am way too smart to fall for that)

in light of all this, what Otto and Ronette are doing is even more enlightening, they are the true heroes .. they opensourced it and are fully disclosing everything, what a gift indeed.

devilzangel
..
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 15, 2007, 06:41:31 AM
Rich,

Thanks ..you saved me ..twice!

All,
Im not surprised that some want to  crucify me , I expect it!

It still hurts a bit though..

Lindsay

Not from me he didnt save you.  My predictions stand.

I made my statement and i verbalized your next move in advance. 

I even bet a some good brew on it, that little does he know i am a fellow brewmiester and brew connisuer and my favorite flavor is a nice flowery, goes down like milk, double decoction marzan.   you and others here may not know what that means but he does.  There's only one thing better and thats x rated!  LOL

No one is crucifying you!  You crucify yourself.   The only thing you are a victim to here is yourself not us.  By your own actions or inactions and the things you say.

You asked for questions and I gave you a legitimate one. When do we get to see a true DC rms filtered loaded and scoped output of sm's coil.  If it comes to pass that is agreed upon that they will do it, i will tell you "exactly" how it must be performed to prove this device beyond anyones doubt as even that can be faked easily enough.

i am from missouri the "show me" state and my money is on it aint never a gonna happen.

You made the meeting with uec, i made my predictions and i made my call, now its only a matter of sitting back having that cold one and watching the truth unfold in one direction or the other.

Look at it from the bright side Lindsay, i gave you a nice challenge here so now is your chance to get "really" creative!

Again to all you builders this is between me an lindsay here, not you guys so keep on trucking and do your thing.   I only want truth here and Mister Lindsay opened that door with an invitation and I chose to walk through it with a very resaonable request.  The same one that is expected of me with anything i have ever designed anyway.




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 15, 2007, 06:49:34 AM
kokomo:

Thanks for the links. It wasn't that I can't be bothered to find the links. My point was, if indeed the controller or whatever else has been patented, then it is the public's right to know. It's not even about copying patented technology. Every invention should have been an improvement (supposedly distinctive & unobvious) over prior art.

Hence, whether it is UEC or SM himself or that lawyer, there is only one truth and that truth should not be "secret" if indeed patented. That's all really.

Thanks
chrisC

i cannot agree with you more.  i made that point in another thread  and got boo'd down and threatened with mayhem and censorship so i can not really say to much about it.  So i will leave it at "patents are public" and cut it there.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 15, 2007, 06:56:07 AM
Look more detail into the circuit, It seems the output energy is delivered from the secondary of the control coil because 3 of them are typical air core step up transformer or Tesla coil. No mater the mobius coil exist or not, it already delivering energy. To prove whether the mobius coil is useful we can adjust the frequency and set to the best condition, then suddenly disconnect the mobius part from the circuit, check if any difference and adjust the frequency try to get previous max. output. By the way please waste your time to the patents and feelings until we got some anomalous result. We should concentrate to technology not OTHERS.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 15, 2007, 07:06:03 AM
Look more detail into the circuit, It seems the output energy is delivered from the secondary of the control coil because 3 of them are typical air core step up transformer or Tesla coil. No mater the mobius coil exist or not, it already delivering energy. To prove whether the mobius coil is useful we can adjust the frequency and set to the best condition, then suddenly disconnect the mobius part from the circuit, check if any difference and adjust the frequency try to get previous max. output. By the way please waste your time to the patents and feelings until we got some anomalous result. We should concentrate to technology not OTHERS.

i know virtually nothing about this but i can tell you that using a generator is not how to get this to work if in fact is real in the first place.  (jump on this one Lindsay!)  lol

Someone asked why i do not help, there i have helped.  i can throw out bones too.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 07:08:20 AM
Ok tonight was a blast ,I used 1 frequency and I changed from transistors to a mosfet driver and mosfet?s?.. It?s the rise time that makes the difference; I tested duty cycle and no real difference. I need faster switching device, can you say tubes. Well maybe tubes next but first I want to research a controller I might be able to use. Tomorrow 24 volts to drive it and see if it performs better. When you touch the output? ya I love to feel it, it feels just like a Tesla coil discharge. This test was all battery no mains ,,, Off Grid and similar results as Jason. Trannies used 5 amps, mosfet used 1.5 amps @ 12 volts ? big difference. For all the  bendini builders use mosfets you will be impressed. For those watching the camera I hope it was a really big show. It's the rise time just like Tesla said, just like static electricity on the move.

Oh Please don't touch like I do, I have years of experiance dealing with HV.      

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: adrians on June 15, 2007, 07:10:53 AM

To whomever was trying to stream live video from the webcam (c0mster, I think), have you tried http://ustream.tv? I think it would be ideal for this.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 07:13:24 AM
@adrians
 
Thats cool, thanks. I think Stefan has somthing in mind to fix the problem. I never expected so much traffic.

Cam
 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 15, 2007, 07:26:33 AM
good stuff .. keep it up  :)

devilzangel
..

Ok tonight was a blast ,I used 1 frequency and I changed from transistors to a mosfet driver and mosfet?s?.. It?s the rise time that makes the difference; I tested duty cycle and no real difference. I need faster switching device, can you say tubes. Well maybe tubes next but first I want to research a controller I might be able to use. Tomorrow 24 volts to drive it and see if it performs better. When you touch the output? ya I love to feel it, it feels just like a Tesla coil discharge. This test was all battery no mains ,,, Off Grid and similar results as Jason. Trannies used 5 amps, mosfet used 1.5 amps @ 12 volts ? big difference. For all the  bendini builders use mosfets you will be impressed. For those watching the camera I hope it was a really big show. It's the rise time just like Tesla said, just like static electricity on the move.

Oh Please don't touch like I do, I have years of experiance dealing with HV.       

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: manlopez39 on June 15, 2007, 07:42:34 AM
Hello...
I just want to express my appreciation.
I'm just glad being able to read/view the quality efforts that
are being displayed here.
To:  SM,LM,Otto,Roberto,Jason,Comster,Rob,Dom,Dave,Bruce,
gnostik,giantkiller & a few others, thank you!!!

I'm just reading all the documentation provided.  Not an engineer
here and yet I'm understanding the logics on many things.
I'll keep learning from all the information coming out.  One day
I know I'll be able to replicate with some help of a friend.

Please continue.....I applaud you.....as others... Your
dedication & generosity is not going unnoticed.  
Blessings...Manny...    ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 15, 2007, 08:29:13 AM
Rich,

Thanks ..you saved me ..twice!

All,
Im not surprised that some want to  crucify me , I expect it!

It still hurts a bit though..

Lindsay

Not from me he didnt save you.  My predictions stand.

I made my statement and i verbalized your next move in advance. 

I even bet a some good brew on it, that little does he know i am a fellow brewmiester and brew connisuer and my favorite flavor is a nice flowery, goes down like milk, double decoction marzan.   you and others here may not know what that means but he does.  There's only one thing better and thats x rated!  LOL

No one is crucifying you!  You crucify yourself.   The only thing you are a victim to here is yourself not us.  By your own actions or inactions and the things you say.

You asked for questions and I gave you a legitimate one. When do we get to see a true DC rms filtered loaded and scoped output of sm's coil.  If it comes to pass that is agreed upon that they will do it, i will tell you "exactly" how it must be performed to prove this device beyond anyones doubt as even that can be faked easily enough.

i am from missouri the "show me" state and my money is on it aint never a gonna happen.

You made the meeting with uec, i made my predictions and i made my call, now its only a matter of sitting back having that cold one and watching the truth unfold in one direction or the other.

Look at it from the bright side Lindsay, i gave you a nice challenge here so now is your chance to get "really" creative!

Again to all you builders this is between me an lindsay here, not you guys so keep on trucking and do your thing.   I only want truth here and Mister Lindsay opened that door with an invitation and I chose to walk through it with a very resaonable request.  The same one that is expected of me with anything i have ever designed anyway.






Ok Mr nameless,
you win !you are right and I am wrong..oh thank you for your guidance... I have a rope and a tree!

All the engineers reports ...all the witness reports..they were all just fooling me ...oh dear..where is my book of knots?

Ha! HA!

all,
It always gets like this when progress is being made.
Its fun in one way...very sad in another...but never boring !
yep!  I get sucked by it but I should just ignore it..

An Un unusual conversion event has been documented for you..
I say again "THIS IS NOT A POWER GENERATOR"...go to your hardware store.
want some readings...got to your phsycic!

Listen to this guy and you can save your self the trouble of building something that is a waste of time . That is If you expect to have a power generator like Steven  first up.

Gee i hope it never builds one!

This will sort itself out in time..

As people contribute what they can in this process.

The ox is slow but the earth is patient.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 15, 2007, 08:36:21 AM
Ok tonight was a blast ,I used 1 frequency and I changed from transistors to a mosfet driver and mosfet?s?.. It?s the rise time that makes the difference; I tested duty cycle and no real difference. I need faster switching device, can you say tubes. Well maybe tubes next but first I want to research a controller I might be able to use. Tomorrow 24 volts to drive it and see if it performs better. When you touch the output? ya I love to feel it, it feels just like a Tesla coil discharge. This test was all battery no mains ,,, Off Grid and similar results as Jason. Trannies used 5 amps, mosfet used 1.5 amps @ 12 volts ? big difference. For all the  bendini builders use mosfets you will be impressed. For those watching the camera I hope it was a really big show. It's the rise time just like Tesla said, just like static electricity on the move.

Oh Please don't touch like I do, I have years of experiance dealing with HV.       

Cam

Camster, and all whoI was in Skype conference with,
was a real joy to see it and your progress with it.
I hope we can continue this way and get it powered up soon
real well.
I also have to get a few more IRF 840 and these driver ICs before I can build
my TPU.
Was really nice seeing your bulb glow, not yet as bright as Jason?s one,
but you will get there !

Many thanks for this webcam feed !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 09:51:39 AM
By the way, we did verify the pulse width/frequency relationship to power output.

with IRF840's it seems the optimal duty cycle is around 20% for maximum output. on one channel we were getting very bright bulbs at this duty cycle, not as bright as in the flashover video, but probably at least two thirds that. At lower current draw as well. When the duty cycle is changed you have to retune to find a new sweet spot as this changes the frequency to power output relationship. The bulb lit very steadily.

We tested with Neons, a 12 watt bulb, a 40 watt bulb, and some flourescents, all lit to varying degrees. The 12 watt bulb lit fully, with power to spare for the 40 watt, to about 1/3 power, same current draw. ALL OF THIS WITH ONE FREQUENCY.

1-2 amps input when tuned to a nice sweet spot around 35khz if I remember correctly.

can't remember the volts, if someone can volunteer that, that would be great.
(cam was a bit excited and chaotic, and hard to keep up with, understandable) :)

Batteries were used to power the device, the tpu was shielded with copper mesh.

We tested for energy back flow, before putting protections in place, and noticed a LOT of ac hash at the battery terminals. This is with a shielded TPU, and very little free RF in the room as checked with an AM radio. We also did not have any of the camera/keyboard problems as we did with Jasons test, with this copper mesh shield in place. We'll see if the shield holds true at two frequencies. That's when the coils get a bit pissy, until of course you get the third one tuned in. Then it calms down a bit. Three harmonics. Music soothes the savage beast.

All in all, not a bad night's work.

Congrats Cam.

Koko, you present Lindsay with a challenge as if he can just order these guys at the UEC to bow to your whim. I hope you realize how logically ridiculous that is. They have no motive whatsoever to show us anything of the sort. People replicating however, that would pressure them a bit in my estimation..... not suggesting anyting in particular, just saying...

Oh, and you might want to take a college level debate class. Focus on fallacy.

Nice to know you are a brewer, however. Perhaps we can trade recipes.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 15, 2007, 10:09:34 AM

Ok, I have my control circuit working with the specified drivers and mosfets.

I have a few questions:

1. I'm assuming the reference/negative/earth from the freq. gen is connected to all the other earths connections ?

2. And that all earth connections are connected together ?

3. Is a protection diode required across the primary coil ?

4. Are there any resistors inline with the coils to limit the current or does having a secondary take care of this ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 15, 2007, 10:29:01 AM
Hello all,

@Bob

1. every MINUS you can "find" - from power supply, from oscillators, from Sources of your MOSFETs connect together. Nothing more. And then forget about them.

2. Im using only coils, without resistors, diodes....

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 15, 2007, 10:54:13 AM
@cam,

CONGRATULATION
just go on with a step by step approach and look, this time, for the Seed!

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 12:30:50 PM
Hi all,

I must say, I am trying not to get carried away, something tells me this affect is not what people are hoping and that the power simply originates from the power supply. I do not think I will be replicating this for now! The tests done so far are not conclusive of anything.

Jason read the current on a digital meter at high frequency, no good. The digital meter on the power supply probably also got upset.

The unit is oscillating in the AM radio band, thus emission of RF, no surprise. I have had many problems in the past with my USB equipment disconnecting.

If the effect is one of conversion or gating of energy then why we need a few amps from a power supply, why not a 9v battery?

Jasons power suppy read 6 amps and 40 or so volts? It cannot go that high, so clearly something is wrong, however there is plenty of power there if you cross those figures. So Jasons supply has max 6 amps at 30v. It was reading 40v, clearly an artifact. BUT lets say the power supply was giving its max, 30v at 6 amps, thats 180 watts. Its a 40 watt bulb? The switching effect could easily convert that "power" to a higher voltage lower current and be enough to light that bulb.

Yes, the bulb doesn't light if you connect it to the power supply directly, but if you convert that same "power" to higher voltage lower current, it will light, the coil switching does this as the back emf converts the 30v higher current to higher voltage, lower current, but the power content is the same and is more than the bulbs rating.

I would say, we need to have a low current battery with a fast blow fuse. This way, no matter what the meter reads, if the fuse doesn't blow, we know we are not exceeding a certain current. We can also have a few diodes to prevent back flow to the battery if there is any.

Next, to place a bulb in a sealed box connected to the mains supply with a lux meter inside, compare proper known power to lux level. Now connect same bulb still in the box to the TPU and compare lux level. Even, using a Kill-A-Watt and a dimmer switch, chart known power to brightness levels from the mains source and chart this, then have a nice chart to compare from TPU brightness.

I know some of you will shoot me for saying this, but I think some people, including me on occasion are "too eager" to believe. We have high frequency spiking and the bulb can light from inductive heating effect. We have spikes on the leading edge and this can be caused by leakage inductance energy allowed to dissipate in the mosfet.  Pleak = 1/2 Ip^2 Lleak?

Scopes blowing up are not proof either, we have 500v spikes. Scopes have a max input voltage you can apply without damaging the scope, some are 600v, some 1000v, etc, nothing sinister here, just the fact you didn't use a resistive divider to drop it down and then multiply the measurement afterwards.

So my current thoughts stand, what would I be replicating exactly?  When I see proof of excess energy I will replicate it!  Its not on me or anyone to prove that for someone else by replicating it!  If someone else claims it, they have to prove it to others first!

So with respect to replicators so far, what exactly are you replicating?  It cannot be excess energy since it hasn't been proven by the originators yet in order to be replicated by someone else?


Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 15, 2007, 01:23:08 PM
Hello all,

@Dave,

you need a proof of excess energy.

Just a question. You saw all the videos. Do they proove excess energy???

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 01:44:40 PM
Hello all,

@Dave,

you need a proof of excess energy.

Just a question. You saw all the videos. Do they proove excess energy???

Otto

Otto,

Jasons power supply has a maximum output of 180 watts.

The bulb is 40 watts.

Did I see overunity in the video? 

NO...



D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 15, 2007, 01:50:54 PM
Hello,

@Dave

then you will NOT see overunity here because we are building a TPU like in the video.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 02:03:55 PM
Otto,

What video do you mean?  You mean the SM videos?

Well, here he has a 9v battery or no battery and produces 10kW.  There is clearly more power coming out than the 9v battery can supply.  There is a free conversion of energy taking place.

I do not see this in the videos.  In Jasons video I see a 180 watt power supply lighting a 40 watt bulb.

Can anyone tell me I am wrong, and if so, why I am wrong?


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 15, 2007, 02:15:59 PM
Hello,

@Dave

yes, SMs videos.

you are NOT wrong with Jasons video but you must understand that we are just at the beginning. As I remember, Jason has for us something prepaired for Monday.

I never sayd that my coils are good, NO WAY. I wanted to show people just how they can start. I can inagine, in a short time, there will be a lot of better controls. They will be all over the collector.....but for a start we use my setup. Its on us all to built better controls, test them, build new if nessesary...

Otto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: weri812 on June 15, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
@ dave

i see your point

we are like a new kitten out of the box we are learning to walk
give use time and it will be done.

great work to all  involved.

wer
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 02:33:27 PM
Hi Wer,

I guess I am just confused as to what is being claimed here.  The claim was "I DID IT".  To me it means excess energy above that taken from the power supply.

Are we claiming excess energy above the power supply indicating a free conversion of an unknown source.  This is the only question!


* If there is no excess energy, just conversion, they what does this statement mean?

* If there is conversion taking place, there will be excess energy right?

* If there is no excess energy then what makes anyone think there is any conversion taking place.

If I am testing a device and I see excess energy I will think, wow, a conversion is happening for free!

If I don't see any excess energy, I will think its not working...

If no excess energy, then where is the energy from this supposed conversion going because it certainly hasn't been measured.


Regards

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 15, 2007, 02:41:54 PM
All builders and testers.

After examining the schematic a little closer, I noticed something odd, but I didn't say anything about it last post. I wanted to see if anyone else noticed it, and someone did....Tosky.

Albeit the "collector" coilset has a mobius twist, but this is not what I would call a coil. Why? It is simply two shorted loops of wire. I don't believe the loops are serving any purpose at all, and would propose to those testing to perform this simple test:

Once you have some luminous output, try removing (best) or at least breaking the wire loop such that they can not be considered part of the circuit, even though, technically, they are not part of the circuit even now. The wire loops as per the design are really transmitting antennas. At least that's how I see it.

Throw the power back on and you may see the same luminosity. The meters may read differently (either higher or lower) because the antennas will be out of the circuit, and have stopped emitting HF/RF energy. Or as Tosky mentioned, you may have to tweak the frequency again to achieve the same luminosity.

Look at the circuit again, it may become apparent why I say this.

Roberto was right when he said that the circuit looks simple, but there is much more going on, and I agree with him. There are many potential (no pun) electrical paths, all depending on switching sequence and kickback times.

Power is from the PSU (or battery) via switching through the 3 switches, and is a combination of "switch-ON", and CEMF spikes...all from the primary and secondary coils. Spikes and noise is getting back to the PSU or battery, because there is no shunt diode across the 3 primaries. Doing this however would partly kill the power making it's way to the load.

At any rate, I would say that there is no ou here, and no potential for it if this loopless test proves correct. CEMF has been amply tested in the past for ou potential, and thus far works only in Bedini's batteries as far as I know.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 15, 2007, 02:42:22 PM
@Stefan,

Please post it to the FAQ thread

Thanks

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 15, 2007, 03:49:04 PM
Thank you Roberto, much simpler!  Good Job!! :)

@ Darren
Otto has already posted on his old thread that the ECD will not work without the mobius.
Did you know that they use Mobius turns for some particle accelerators?  If you re read SM's posts, or my thread you will understand the significance of the Mobius.  There may be other ways to wind the collectors in the future and I am researching this, but ONLY if they achieve the same purpose as the Mobius.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: weri812 on June 15, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
again @ dave

point taken

leave it alone for now
this hole thing is about getting people to work to geather and to under stand the whole coil set up . not to achive overunity  at this time. this is a learning process once we get this part right  then move on to the next step.  dont wont no one to get crazy and get hurt  badley.  this thing is  deadley.  PLEASE  set back and watch for a wile it has taken this long to get this far. please be pashont.

wer
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 04:03:53 PM
Hi all,

I must say, I am trying not to get carried away, something tells me this affect is not what people are hoping and that the power simply originates from the power supply. I do not think I will be replicating this for now! The tests done so far are not conclusive of anything.

Jason read the current on a digital meter at high frequency, no good. The digital meter on the power supply probably also got upset.

The unit is oscillating in the AM radio band, thus emission of RF, no surprise. I have had many problems in the past with my USB equipment disconnecting.

If the effect is one of conversion or gating of energy then why we need a few amps from a power supply, why not a 9v battery?

Jasons power suppy read 6 amps and 40 or so volts? It cannot go that high, so clearly something is wrong, however there is plenty of power there if you cross those figures. So Jasons supply has max 6 amps at 30v. It was reading 40v, clearly an artifact. BUT lets say the power supply was giving its max, 30v at 6 amps, thats 180 watts. Its a 40 watt bulb? The switching effect could easily convert that "power" to a higher voltage lower current and be enough to light that bulb.

Yes, the bulb doesn't light if you connect it to the power supply directly, but if you convert that same "power" to higher voltage lower current, it will light, the coil switching does this as the back emf converts the 30v higher current to higher voltage, lower current, but the power content is the same and is more than the bulbs rating.

I would say, we need to have a low current battery with a fast blow fuse. This way, no matter what the meter reads, if the fuse doesn't blow, we know we are not exceeding a certain current. We can also have a few diodes to prevent back flow to the battery if there is any.

Next, to place a bulb in a sealed box connected to the mains supply with a lux meter inside, compare proper known power to lux level. Now connect same bulb still in the box to the TPU and compare lux level. Even, using a Kill-A-Watt and a dimmer switch, chart known power to brightness levels from the mains source and chart this, then have a nice chart to compare from TPU brightness.

I know some of you will shoot me for saying this, but I think some people, including me on occasion are "too eager" to believe. We have high frequency spiking and the bulb can light from inductive heating effect. We have spikes on the leading edge and this can be caused by leakage inductance energy allowed to dissipate in the mosfet.  Pleak = 1/2 Ip^2 Lleak?

Scopes blowing up are not proof either, we have 500v spikes. Scopes have a max input voltage you can apply without damaging the scope, some are 600v, some 1000v, etc, nothing sinister here, just the fact you didn't use a resistive divider to drop it down and then multiply the measurement afterwards.

So my current thoughts stand, what would I be replicating exactly?  When I see proof of excess energy I will replicate it!  Its not on me or anyone to prove that for someone else by replicating it!  If someone else claims it, they have to prove it to others first!

So with respect to replicators so far, what exactly are you replicating?  It cannot be excess energy since it hasn't been proven by the originators yet in order to be replicated by someone else?


Dave.

Dave, did you not see my post a few, maybe two, or three, posts before this? I clearly state we ran from batteries, and the RF was sheilded, the meters were operating normally. We tested them by getting a current draw reading, and putting a fuse of that value in to see if it would blow, it did. Meters were correct. We tested the backflow assumption and it was correct. Jason's meters were not reading power OUTPUT. They were reading back flow.

If you are skeptical, then that is a reason TO replicate and test!!!

why the heck don't people understand this!!

What the heck is scientific about being skeptical, and therefor deciding to do nothing? Do us a favor and prove us wrong!! And don't give me that burden of proof garbage. We've made our claims and provided our evidence. If you disagree with the evidence, your making claims, that need to be backed up by data!!

Build it, please, do us a favor, prove us wrong. That way, we don't have to waste any more time on this insanity. My wife would appreciate it.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 15, 2007, 04:26:09 PM
@ Otto or Roberto,

Just was looking up specs for the IRF840. I found it has 23 ns rise time.
Then I saw the IRF740 with a rise time of only 10ns !

Is this maybe an even better option because as far as I know the rise time is the most important thing in mosfet choice?


Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 15, 2007, 05:08:16 PM
Hello Robert,

I tried the IRF740, IRF630, IRF 510......not good!!!

It is NOT only the rise time, its the capacitance at on and off times of the used MOSFET and of course the resistance of the MOSFET.....maybe I forgot something.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MrMag on June 15, 2007, 05:11:00 PM
For those wondering about the transformers. The idea of the primary and secondary winding is to have the same mass. If you cannot find the wire gauges that Otto and Roberto have used, I have found a copper conversion table that may help you in deciding the proper lengths to use.

The website is  http://www.calfinewire.com/cutable.htm 

I could not find a table for metric wire sizes but I'm sure theres one out there somewhere.

I also left my calculations in imperial units. That way, I don't have to worry if I use 1" = 22.5mm or 24mm or 25.4mm.

Tim
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: nong on June 15, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
Hello Roberto & Otto,

Could you tell me what the output from mosfet driver that could be good to drive?


I tested TC4428, ran upto 3Mhz, disconnect mosfet(840).  It look like sine wave.....is it OK?

What's about irf7307 singal when disconnect mosfet?   Please...



Best regards,
nong
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 15, 2007, 05:33:12 PM
Dave:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why you waste all this time and energy being a doubting Thomas when over maybe $20 and a hour of your building time plus time picking up a few pieces of wires & chips from the electronics hardware shop, you will forever relieve youirself of this burden?

You asked so many times what are you looking for in these replications. Otto and others have told you repeatedly at this point in time, SM's TPU videos and Otto's replication videos are similar but not identical. Yes, there both have collectors and controllers but Otto's currently have a PS to intiate oscillators to start the excitation sequences in order to study the relationships between controller interaction with the mobius particle acceleration, so we can close the loop eventually and get rid of the PU . When we get there, whether Otto's is identical to SM's is not the point. Both would have demonstrated exactly the ability to convert aether into reproducible electrical energy which is why we are together in this forum.

Many expert minds are also sceptic but some are helping.  Darren is doing his part in obective reasoning and that is indeed very helpful. Why don't you just DO IT and ascertain validity or just wait on the side line and watch the circus freak show!
 
cheers
chrisC
Title: DDS USB OSC
Post by: Earl on June 15, 2007, 05:40:59 PM
Hi All,

If an USB controlled osc is OK, here is one:

http://www.ar.com.au/~softmark/

http://www.ar.com.au/~softmark/page37.html

he also sells on ebay.  I bought a USB-GPIB card from him and received it very quickly.

regards, Earl
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 05:41:50 PM
What the heck is scientific about being skeptical, and therefore deciding to do nothing? Do us a favor and prove us wrong!! And don't give me that burden of proof garbage. We've made our claims and provided our evidence. If you disagree with the evidence, your making claims, that need to be backed up by data!!

Build it, please, do us a favor, prove us wrong. That way, we don't have to waste any more time on this insanity. My wife would appreciate it.

Rich

Hi Rich,

Burden of proof?  If someone claims something surely they need to present proof rather than tell everyone else to go build it and prove it for them?  I see no scope shots, graphs, heat or light power measurements tests?  Perhaps I missed them in earlier posts as I missed your post earlier, I am at work and very busy!

Very well, as its a fairly quick project I will build this device.

But let me ask you all this, if I provide real test data and my interpretation is that it is not OU but coming from my power supply, is anyone going to believe me?  I can no more prove you wrong at this time than you can prove me right.

Like I said, where are the measurements?  Power on the mains side of the power supply, power from the power supply itself with scope across the power supply with one channel and a low resistance shunt inline with the other channel across that.  Same for the bulb, same on each mosfet.

Lux comparison too a known source/power chart.  Temperature tests, perhaps use a 1 ohm resistor as a load instead and meausure the temperature, then connect same resistor to variable DC supply and adjust until same temperature is reached and compare the DC voltage and current to find the power used to heat that resistor to the same.

Circuit which will trip from the power supply once a certain voltage and or current are reached and equivalent on TPU output, if the TPU output one goes first then there is more power in the TPU than coming from the supply, then reverse the units and try again to make sure they are equal in construction.

There are many testing methods and so far I have seen a couple of digital multimeters stuck on that cannot be trusted to sample properly above 1Khz.  I dont think there is any burden on me!

I know its early days and I am sure all the testers have the above in mind to try during their testing, there is much more I have not mentioned.  But you cannot measure with some multimeters and then go claiming OU.

So let me ask again, how sure are you really?

My results will follow.


Regards to all,

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 15, 2007, 06:02:02 PM
Hi guys,

...have to go with Dave on this - the chances of a "false positive" are high - simply because spiky electricity WILL spook instruments.


I feel the need here for a recognised way to measure input power / output power in a manner that does not use kit affected by spikes.

Why not generalise this and devise a standard OU.com power test?

Heat delivery (resisters / loads in oil or water) + temp rises is a good way - as long as no "cold electricity" is about (Sweet VTA would cause temp drops in loads).

But it is easy - load elements, known mass of water, thermometer. Start and stop temps + room temp changes.

Power in side? A digital power line VA meter?

It must be able to cope with != 1 power factor. This looks like territory for an expert.

This must have been tackled before! Anyone got a link to a site saying how previous guys have measured power in a reliable fashion?

Steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 06:11:48 PM
Hi Steve,

Indeed if cold electricity is on the scene, then we have even more trouble since being in negative form has all the opposite effects to normal disipative energy (this being convergant!)  Although I for one have never seen it, but would like to believe it exists, but were it to appear would not register on equipment?

Some may say the ONLY test here which can be 100% would be to have an isolated unit which self powers.  Nothing less will be accepted by the general scientific population!


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 15, 2007, 06:19:20 PM
Well kiddos it is time for Mr. Safety again. You all know me by now. I like to harp on misunderstood issues. Why? Because they are existing patterns to be recognized by a larger group. This time it's us!

So lets talk now, shall we? Gather 'round.

To this day SM has crippled, pained hands, I heard Otto has a numb thumb, I got skin fairies, bone clicking, and a severe headache for 1 day and a half, I, Otto and Roberto got the crap scared out of us, Jason experienced skin fairies, C0mster experienced skin fairies.

Skin fairies? It is a warm gelatinous feeling moving over your skin as you cook. You are still only rare on the grill. It is caused by high RF. Left uncontrolled you will attain medium rare status. How do you like your steak? Oh, Dear what are you wearing for dinner? Nice tuxedo! Oh I'm sorry that is charred flesh! What a novel idea. A suite that is worn well done! Now you really can chew your own leg off. Mmmmm. You can also wear steak sauce as an after shave.

Skin fairies and pain? We who have attained these are respected here for our education, experience, and experiments. Yes, everybody brags in their own right about their qualifications. But how come all those quals don't help that person avoid fear, shock and damage? Whoa! Kemosabe. TPU man speak with third eye! These artifacts are the dartlets that Tesla mentioned. Maybe it is best that some of you just watch. Now put that TPU down! You don't know where it has been!

So for those who want to get overunity then experiment and cook. See the shock and awe. If you have not done this then you have no need or right to push, condem or whine.

A rocket fell out of the sky over my hometown on the day of my big test on Jan 03-2007. Oddly on the day of Jun 13-2007 with Jasons brilliant flash results the computers fail on the International space station. Both devices were Russian made. There are other things that have happened and I have devised that I am not at Liberty to talk about. What we have here is dangerous enough and we can't even handle that. HeHeHe.

If we weren't taking these small steps someone would be dead by now. Kapeesh?

I got my new scope in! Shweet!

--giantkiller. A closed mind is an inescapable trap.

(Sung to the tune of the Fish song by Country Joe Macdonald.)
And it's 1,2,3
What are we winding for?
Don't ask me I don't understand
The next stop is in Iran.
And it's 5,6,7
Open up the powergate.
Well ain't no use to wonder why, whoopee we're all gonna fry!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 15, 2007, 06:25:43 PM
Earl.

Thanks for the heads-up on the DDS oscillator.

Unfortunately it doesn't output squares or pulses.

I suppose it one could interface it with their own zero-cross detector, and generate squares and pulses from that.

Regards,
Darren.

PS. @Dave,

They may not believe you if your results are negative, but I will. I know you will at least do the testing with an unbiased approach.

@All, a suggestion: In general, if and when you see something anamolous, be suspicious right away. Don't jump to any unfounded conclusions. Try to eliminate all possible reasons for these apparent anamolous results. Only when you have eliminated all possible sources of error and assumptions, can you correctly claim you are observing something anamolous, in this case excess energy.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 15, 2007, 06:31:07 PM
Skeptic caused by the some not detail enough report:

(1) If you operate a MOSFET with a aluminium heat sink until it become heated, then turn off the power. After a moment, you will find the MOSFET cooler than the heat sink, because of the latent heat value of the AL and plastic is different. The experimenter should know the physics and void of this condition. If really anomalous happened, he should recorded that he measured the temperature while power on not off.

(2) Many years ago, I made a 27MHZ transmitter. Which was 5W not much power, but the RF signal jumped to its power suppy which made its output more power than the preset. Same situation as some ECD test. I knew that mistake was no Low Pass Filter. We should not just give it a low pass filter then finish the work. We should pin point the problem. I found the problem was from the feed back path to the control circuit. The RF signal lowered the feed back voltage, the controller thought that the output voltage was not enough. Then compensate the output voltage. I simply put a small capactor to the controller IC pin to fix it. Same effect as using low pass filter at the output but simpier. After that the power supply is robust enough to do every work. No mater expensive or home made power supply may have such mistake, because it is not build for RF stuff. If you don't fix your power supply, you better use a battery to do research. Avoid the false alarm and false anomaly.

I am happy Otto gave us a good entry point to research. I think it may have something good from it, but research logically avoid the false alarm.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 06:48:55 PM
Cam/Rich,

SM said the TPU does not work inside a shield!  Presumably this is because it is tapping/converting energy from outside the device which now gets blocked by the shield.

Just something to bear in mind when testing as your copper shield appears to be an all encompassing one and if you do have excess energy from this device then it surely cannot be via the same method as SM if it is indeed working inside a shield?

If it was ZPE or something, or excess energy directly tapped from the vacuum then the shield would not matter.  I guess this is one reason SM came to the conclusions that he did about what the source of energy was.



D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 07:23:45 PM
What the heck is scientific about being skeptical, and therefore deciding to do nothing? Do us a favor and prove us wrong!! And don't give me that burden of proof garbage. We've made our claims and provided our evidence. If you disagree with the evidence, your making claims, that need to be backed up by data!!

Build it, please, do us a favor, prove us wrong. That way, we don't have to waste any more time on this insanity. My wife would appreciate it.

Rich

Hi Rich,

Burden of proof?  If someone claims something surely they need to present proof rather than tell everyone else to go build it and prove it for them?  I see no scope shots, graphs, heat or light power measurements tests?  Perhaps I missed them in earlier posts as I missed your post earlier, I am at work and very busy!

Very well, as its a fairly quick project I will build this device.

But let me ask you all this, if I provide real test data and my interpretation is that it is not OU but coming from my power supply, is anyone going to believe me?  I can no more prove you wrong at this time than you can prove me right.

Like I said, where are the measurements?  Power on the mains side of the power supply, power from the power supply itself with scope across the power supply with one channel and a low resistance shunt inline with the other channel across that.  Same for the bulb, same on each mosfet.

Lux comparison too a known source/power chart.  Temperature tests, perhaps use a 1 ohm resistor as a load instead and meausure the temperature, then connect same resistor to variable DC supply and adjust until same temperature is reached and compare the DC voltage and current to find the power used to heat that resistor to the same.

Circuit which will trip from the power supply once a certain voltage and or current are reached and equivalent on TPU output, if the TPU output one goes first then there is more power in the TPU than coming from the supply, then reverse the units and try again to make sure they are equal in construction.

There are many testing methods and so far I have seen a couple of digital multimeters stuck on that cannot be trusted to sample properly above 1Khz.  I dont think there is any burden on me!

I know its early days and I am sure all the testers have the above in mind to try during their testing, there is much more I have not mentioned.  But you cannot measure with some multimeters and then go claiming OU.

So let me ask again, how sure are you really?

My results will follow.


Regards to all,

Dave.

I'm not sure at all, and I didn't mean to imply that burden was on you, only that there are only a couple replications at this point, and help testing is needed. We've provided our evidence, and we plan on continuing to test based on suggestions from this forum, however, the reactions are still negative in the light of what we have done.

The power measurements were not false on his PS, they were measuring current, but it was not current output, it WAS backfeed as suggested by Jason, someone else can explain this test better than I can. I took very little notes as I had a guy repairing my hot tub at the time, and my wife kept interrupting. We have eliminated RF from equation by shielding the device, and made sure cam's instruments were reading correctly. We have provided a level of isolation to the power supply, we have used a battery, these were all suggestions from here.

And to imply that we would not accept your results is patently ridiculous, we would need to replicate your testing of course, to ensure you built your tpu the same way cam, jason, and roberto did, but evidence speaks for itself. That's the beauty of science.

Different people have different equipment. we cannot test heat or lumens at the moment.

I've seen scope shots across the power supply, both battery, and PS, shielded and unshielded. No you didn't miss them, you just weren't there, so missed it, and I didn't take screen shots. With Cam's tests, all he had was one of those little velleman digital hand held scopes, last night, so I didn't think it was worth it as the resolution was low. And we need to redo the tests with a better one in order to get good scope shots. We have conducted many of the tests suggested, but more suggestions keep coming, it's hard with limited people, limited time, and limited equipment to test every scenario. Yet they keep rolling in with no help being offered from the "unbiased" crowd  ::). We barely have enough time to perform the tests, much less document all the results in anything but a post on this forum.

So far, the "believers" as we have been labeled, are the only ones performing any testing, and the only ones who have produced any empirical data at all (incomplete as it may be). Why we feel the need to separate into camps I have no idea. I guess people that believe the technology is possible are the ones who are more willing to build and test? And the ones that are skeptical, don't feel strong enough an urge to shove this down our throats, to build and test. Thing is JL Naudin, who your site kind of emulate in it's purpose, would test this in an unbiased manner and present the results positive or negative. Regardless of if he thought it worked or not BEFORE he built it.

If you want charts and scope shots, look at roberto's doc. True, it only shows one side of operation, but there's some good data in there.

We're gathering more.

I'm tired of feeling like I have to wade into battle to get people to help out here. There's a huge double standard going on. I keep seeing people to ask us to test this, and test that, but are not willing to perform any tests, and don't accept any results, OR EVEN COMMENT ON THEM, when we provide the results to tests that were requested. Seriously, at some point, one has to wonder, why would we bother reporting back? The really annoying thing, is that building this device and testing it would be childs play for many of the people who are calling for the tests.

I have sort of unofficially taken on the task of being the whipping post here, until I have all the room/time/parts/energy, to build and test, and document myself. At this rate, I don't know if it'll ever come.

Finally, I would like to say thank you for making the commitment to build, and thank you EM. I look forward to seeing your guy's results. Marco, you too. Guys like you can perform a test in the time it takes you to type it in a post. Same with YOU Z_P_E. Koko, you seem very capable as well. That's why this is so frustrating for me anyway. It just makes no sense with something that is so easy to build. Heck, Take one of your existing TPUs, (dave and zpe) and remove a control, wind secondaries on it, rewire it to a control unit, and you're good to go. It won't be exactly like otto's but hey, see what happens. Logical transofrmations are good too, and produce empiracle data as well, even if that data is "it doesn't work".

So that's it. Please, step up and help us. Or slow down on the requests.

Nice point on the shield by the way dave. I had forgotten about that. That's a real thinker. I wonder if there was shileding on the bottom.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 07:41:17 PM
In thinking about your post about the shielding Dave, and going over our tests, I have to point out, that the lions share of RF happens when the second frequency is introduced. That's when Jason's cams would freeze up, and his keyboard/mouse would stop working.

Cam never introduced the second frequency last night. So perhaps that's why we didn't see the RF bursts. Third frequency stabilizes, and reduces RF considerably. And hence, since only one frequency was used, shielding was probably for nothing last night..


Can someone speculate as to why this is? I have no idea.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 15, 2007, 08:09:32 PM
Hi Rich,Dave, everyone


I like to say some things about the battle that's going on here the last few days between believers and non-believers of the ECD.
Personally I think I'm one of the few that can actually see both viewpoints.

If we look at Jason's setup and the odd readings on the PS meters, we can clearly say that we don't know what the power consumption from the PS is.....
If one says it goes up to 60volts at 3 amps that doesn't mean anyhting. At the max that would put out 180 watts as Dave suggests, but then again we don't know if it did or not!!
We also know that digital meters are not reliable at higher frequencies.....

So, I would say that neither camp, at the moment, has any real idea of what the consumed power is.....
My suggestion is to use a Power (Watt) meter in the wall socket that feeds the PS. That way we can at least see how much power is drawn from the grid. If that is lower than the 40 watts of the bulb...congratulations!
If it's more than 40 watts it doesn't mean there isn't any conversions from an unknown source taking place.....it might just be that the process isn't efficient. In this case we either need to reduce input power below 40 watts OR increase output power. (open the gate further).

At this point the setup has some signs of possible FE but it's too early to say either way.
I guess when Jason can do another batch of tests after the weekend we know alot more.....

regards

Robert  

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 08:52:10 PM
does anyone have a kill-a-watt meter like this?

that would be a great test.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 15, 2007, 08:59:02 PM
does anyone have a kill-a-watt meter like this?

that would be a great test.

The other option is to use use multimeters on the input side of the PS to determine consumed grid power (far away from the ecd/tpu)

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 15, 2007, 09:03:42 PM
The burden of proof never lies in the hands of the skeptic or the one asking reasonable questions. It lies squarely in the hands of those making the claims.

However, there is a slightly grey area here, and that is the question of what is considered solid evidence?

If the claimer has provided solid evidence, from testing that was conducted fairly, objectively, flawlessly, and unbiased, then it is hard to question that.

The problem with the tests and evidence presented here so far, is it falls short of these requirements. Granted, many if not most of the testers may not be qualified electronics test people, but there are many suggestions being made here to try and help out in this respect.

First things first, slow down guys, and remove the mobius loop! If the device still puts out the same power, then this speaks for itself. That is the most obvious thing to change if you want to prove the device does what you believe it does. It has been brought to your attention, take the 30 seconds required, and try it.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 09:13:18 PM
Fine, I'll bring it up next meeting, if I attend.

I think I may be taking a break to slow down a bit. I'm getting way too bugged up, over stuff that should not bother me. I'm aware of this, and working on it. Perhaps a yoga class or TM is in order. Maybe if I figure out how to fit the universe in my belly button, this all won't seem like a big deal to me.

I just wish the people giving the suggestions (very good ones mostly), would help out.

Some of you guys are capable of testing faster than it takes you to post your test request. And if you have the equipment, and we dont, then we just have to spend more money to do it.

That's a good idea though ZPE. Perhaps someone in the beginning phase of a TPU build can do that one, before they slip thier controls on the ring.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I need a break.

Sorry for offending anyone if I have.

@dutchy, even better.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: eldarion on June 15, 2007, 09:15:45 PM
...remove the mobius loop! If the device still puts out the same power, then this speaks for itself...

I second the motion!  All in favor say aye...AYE! ;)

Seriously, can someone please perform this simple test?  I am trying to get a replication started, but all my parts have to be mail ordered, so it is slow going.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 15, 2007, 09:19:11 PM
First things first, slow down guys, and remove the mobius loop! If the device still puts out the same power, then this speaks for itself. That is the most obvious thing to change if you want to prove the device does what you believe it does. It has been brought to your attention, take the 30 seconds required, and try it.

Darren

Darren,

I agree that is a valid test, although Otto has already replied to this by saying it doesn't work at all without the mobius loop....

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 09:21:56 PM
Ok lets test this tonight. I want to first add the second frequency and log what is going on. Then lets take some of it apart. Strefan has set up a location that he feels may stream better so we can try the webcam there.

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 15, 2007, 09:24:27 PM
Ok lets test this tonight. I want to first add the second frequency and log what is going on. Then lets take some of it apart. Strefan has set up a location that he feels may stream better so we can try the webcam there.

Cam

Great Cam,

Where can we see?  ;)

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 09:28:04 PM
@Rich, I have a kill-a-watt meter and also digital lux meter and 4 channel logging thermometer, so I can perform each of these, etc.

@Cam, great!  I would love to know this as we can then tell if the supposed special properties of the mobius strip, ala Prof S Seike are indeed at play here.  Also rather than just disconnect it, also try to connect the top wires of the outer loop to the top wire of the smaller inner loop, etc, ie mobius in back to front mode to check if the mobius twist is having an effect.



Regards,

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: louis on June 15, 2007, 09:29:29 PM
has anyone considered running this on an electronic circuit simulator.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 15, 2007, 09:35:45 PM
has anyone considered running this on an electronic circuit simulator.


I dont think free energy conversion will show up in a simulator since its programmed to follow the rules.  In anycase how would you place the mobius coil in the simulator, last time I used one it wasn't part of the component library!

Could be worth it just to see the power.  Darrens your man for that.


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 09:36:15 PM
@Dave

SM said the TPU does not work inside a shield!  Presumably this is because it is tapping/converting energy from outside the device which now gets blocked by the shield.

I was NOT using the shield, the tpu was in open air.
Plus it's not me saying it's OU :) Lets play with it.

Everyone; can we please sit back and relax, have a beer or a smoke and give me time to test all the suggestions. I want to broadcast the testing live but I am trying to find the best FREE way to do it. Then everyone can see what I see.

For those following I am using no on grid stuff. Last test I used a battery and 555 timer driving a mosfet driver driving a mosfet <Same as Jason> with 1 frequency. I can get the bulb to glow at 1.5 amps using 25% duty min. If you happened to see the cam you might have caught the scope across the battery. Anyone want to be a camera man?

The only other thing I might be able to do is set the software for the cam to use a webpage, frame rate may be slow but not as slow as when everyone bogs down the server.

I?ll post again at 3:30 pm mountain time to the solution.

Cam

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 15, 2007, 09:49:01 PM
Cam, is there another web cam java applet we can use that allows for screen grabs, or frame grabs? That would have been useful last night. Otherwise we have to be really selective of what we capture, due to the time it takes to crop all the screen grabs we make. Know what i mean?

Tell you what, in asking this question I realized, "how the heck should he know?".

I'll go see if I can find something as it would aid in documentation.

Good to see this is going in a more positive direction now.

Also, if you could go over some of my posts and make corrections where necessary. As I said, I couldn't be as attentive as I would have liked last night.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 10:05:33 PM

Hey No Problem Rich. I am sure with the slow frame rate you might have missed it when I showed the tpu. I will try to tweak this software and perhaps try the suggested site.
   
Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 15, 2007, 10:59:23 PM
The problem with the tests and evidence presented here so far, is it falls short of these requirements. Granted, many if not most of the testers may not be qualified electronics test people, but there are many suggestions being made here to try and help out in this respect.

Darren

Ok people have asked several important questions so here are the answers.

So for those who are interested in the truth here it is, no bias, just truth. Take it or leave it.

First; what is the most important thing above all else when designing an energy device?

*The ability to perform correct and accurate measurements.

There is NOTHING more important than this. a device is 100% worthless without it.

Most "free energy" devices fail because the inventor does not correctly measure the device.

Those who willfully fake this stuff, the con artists will never allow anyone to "properly" test their devices, that is the first mark of outright fraud. 

So what do you all need to do? 

Measure it properly!

If you properly measure your device taking into consideration all the things engineering people take into consideration then engineers will agree and work with you instead of drinking beer while you are winding and testing and slaving in the lab.

Inventors have to understand what a correct test is.

A correct test is properly measuring the input and properly measuring the output, then comparing the ratio of the 2.

That has not been done on the tpu according to the way an engineer would do it.

So here is how you can do it in a "crude" manner to see if you are even close to UO.  If you are "close" then we can go to more accurate and sophisticated measuring techniques.


------------

First you start with the power source and from your power source you go to a series shunt to measure the input current.

I personally use 10 - 1 ohm 100 watt resistors in parrallel to yield .1 ohm at 1000 watts for my "series shunt" to measure input power. 

We can now use the current through the shunt and th4e voltage to accurately calculate the power into the device(s).

Now from your shunt you want to block any rf feeding back into the supply so you put a big coil in series with yout your shunt.  Use something like a 10milli henry coil smoothed by a 10000uf cap.

Now you have nice accurate way to easily measure your filtered source for your generator or your high power output drivers or both which ever way you go.

Put a dc rectifier on the output of your tpu run that to another filter cap and finally the load.

Scope/meter across the shunt for I, and then a meter from the shunt to ground to measure V, finally scope and meter the output across either a known load (resistor) or a shunt and a load.

The object behind this is that it significantly reduces your margin for error because even the crappiest meter can read "pure" or well filtered DC quite easily and quite accurately and so if you are all correct in your believe this will prove it beyond even an engineers doubt that you are on to something that "really" works.

As far as helping is concerned this is it.  There is no better tool at your disposal than to know how to correctly assess your project and what i have given you here is a very crude and simple means of testing (most) energy devices accurately.
 
I hope this serves to clear up where i am coming from and why "everyone" should insist that anyone who wants them to believe in an energy device should at a minimum "insist" on clear and accurate output/input measurements before committing themselves to heavily in these sorts of things.

So here is the math.

Most have gens feeding your power circuitry.

              output
CO =        ----------
              input (-/+) feed circuitry

Granted this is severely over simplified but i think most engineers out here would agree this is one of the most clear cut sure fire way to eliminate skeptism when presenting measured data to a professional in the industry simply because most meters read dc just fine.

Showing a light bulb or a drill or even a tv simply is not a bonafide test and no engineer will ever agree it is.  (this is indisputable)

Granted this setup is crude but it will work and it will yield (with reasonable shielding techniques) accurate results.

Another important point on this is that it will tell you if your latests changes are an improvement or worsening and tell you exactly how much, so that will allow you to quantify your changes rather than kinda sorta bright and brighter dimmer etc. 
If someone gets really close to unity then we can take this to the next step and account for all power used/gained in the system on a per system basis.
 
regards,
kj




Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 15, 2007, 11:23:19 PM
Yes I had considered simulating this beast, and once I began thinking how exactly to model the ES coupling, I realized there is none, or very little.

That's when I noticed the mobius loops were not serving any purpose at all, other than providing a nice radiating element for the HF/RF. (Gee no wonder you guys were cooking yourselves ;) ) Oh, and btw, SM never mentioned any safety concerns regarding radiation, and his device does not apparently radiate much at all, in fact it is very sensitive to external EM interference.

It would be interesting to sim the circuit however without the mobius loop (couldn't sim with it anyway), and see if I can get similar waveforms Otto and Roberto got.

In theory, and if I am correct, removing the mobius loop should have little to no effect on the output power or the waveforms. However, I've been wrong before.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: motofox on June 15, 2007, 11:32:45 PM
@ comster,

Theres a very good high resolutions webcam software called webcam XP, it lets you  alter various things like resolution and frame rate. But your still gonna have same problem because your limited to your upload speed.

An ideal program would be camfrog, it lets you stream your video and audio to a central server, and then 50 people could connect with no loss. the video is smooth at like 20 fps with audio, even with loads of people watching the same stream, its the ulimate multicam conference software. the freeware download client lets the client veiw 1 camera at a time, where as the pro version lets you view inlimited cameras at any one time.  might be worth looking into,Hope this helps...

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 15, 2007, 11:35:58 PM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 15, 2007, 11:43:00 PM
ok so basicly we need to get this thing to run on something like a car battery and take some of the output and feed it back thrue a voltage regulator circuit which will furnish the power to the control circuit.

then as the system is energized from the car battery, we can disconnect it and if it keeps running, it would awnser alot of questions going round at the moment.

we can also switch in diodes to prevent the power from flowing back into the driving circuit.

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: eldarion on June 15, 2007, 11:54:00 PM
ok so basicly we need to get this thing to run on something like a car battery and take some of the output and feed it back thrue a voltage regulator circuit which will furnish the power to the control circuit.

then as the system is energized from the car battery, we can disconnect it and if it keeps running, it would awnser alot of questions going round at the moment.

we can also switch in diodes to prevent the power from flowing back into the driving circuit.

Marco.

That is exactly what needs to be done! ;)  Once you do that, you will have (nearly*) indisputable proof that the device is overunity!

*I say nearly because certain people would try to say local EM fields are powering the device, etc.  But, with the device completely self-contained, you could pick it up and move it to the desert and see if it still works...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 16, 2007, 12:31:03 AM
Things are now at last sounding much more optimistic with the general realsiation and agreement that the battery power supply, RF filter and blocking diode are essential components of the TPU test setup.

Let proper testing commence.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 02:21:34 AM
A question to Otto:

I noticed your mobius coil actually seems to exhibit two mobius twists. My understanding of a mobius coil only uses one twist as per the Davis patent below.

Wouldn't two twists bring things back in phase again, thus defeating the original intent?

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 02:32:49 AM
@ ZPE
Otto has answered that question on my thread.  It is indeed a double Mobius.  Single will not work.  No Mobius will not work.  There has to be a mobius to disable the flux.  SM said that the flux is disabled in his device and this allows the electrons to float free.  Sounds bizarre?  Sure, but such is the beasty we are working on.  SM also refers many times to the right "circuit potential", short pieces of wire and 3 frequencies to produce power. 

As I have stated, there are two other ways I have found that will do the same as the mobius (in theory) and I will share those shortly, after we have been experimenting with this collector setup long enough to get some good data anyway.

Thank you for you time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 16, 2007, 02:40:37 AM
KJ,

Thank you for the contribution....your info is correct,consise, and useful..Just not yet...
That is what you and others  fail to see. There are no claims..it is a timing thing..you are just a bit early.
Hang back...no rush..be patient..watch.

Here is MY claim

I claim that "a conversion process had been documented for you with enough information for most people to build it.. and you might find it interesting ...but only if you build it"

Now ,,,build or watch....or demonstrate enough courtesy to remain speechless...give it a week or two, some people have trouble getting the right components .

 then say ...told you so..
Darren ,many times i wanted to save you from the spinning magnets..but you were doing such a wonderful and thorough job..there was just a slight chance that ai was wrong ..I shut up!

Would you have apreciated me if I had said that I think that the cap is faulty?

I think that many mis understandings here are because people seem to think that an overunity claim is being made...it has not it is not.

When this conversion is better understood it may be phased in such a way that will produce huge excess power....we are a  way of that but MUCH closer than ever befor thank to the effors of many here .

Imagine asking the wright brothers for a complete aerodymamic analysis of their first flights?

You know they had to ship their plane to england because no body believed them...or the witnesses.

Look at Stevens story about stopping trains with wind....there are so many cases...not everybody is suited to being in thick of it and the promise that this holds is far to great for some they want proof ...NOW.. Please be patient if you chose to be a spectator.

These last few days have been interesting and certainly in whole make a very interesting discussion which unfortunately may support the posititon that UEC has taken so far.

It also supports my position which is that it must be understood to be accepted by those who's interest might be just money.

Some of you really need to see that we are all a part of this process..warts and all

The expression of Doubt has never created any thing....

Of course some would doubt that!

Now what can you bring to this?

KINDMEN

Lindsay Mannix

Ps sorry something went silly ..tried to get the after the quotes..

Technology!!!!!









The problem with the tests and evidence presented here so far, is it falls short of these requirements. Granted, many if not most of the testers may not be qualified electronics test people, but there are many suggestions being made here to try and help out in this respect.

Darren
/quote]







Ok people have asked several important questions so here are the answers.

So for those who are interested in the truth here it is, no bias, just truth. Take it or leave it.

First; what is the most important thing above all else when designing an energy device?

*The ability to perform correct and accurate measurements.

There is NOTHING more important than this. a device is 100% worthless without it.

Most "free energy" devices fail because the inventor does not correctly measure the device.

Those who willfully fake this stuff, the con artists will never allow anyone to "properly" test their devices, that is the first mark of outright fraud. 

So what do you all need to do? 

Measure it properly!

If you properly measure your device taking into consideration all the things engineering people take into consideration then engineers will agree and work with you instead of drinking beer while you are winding and testing and slaving in the lab.

Inventors have to understand what a correct test is.

A correct test is properly measuring the input and properly measuring the output, then comparing the ratio of the 2.

That has not been done on the tpu according to the way an engineer would do it.

So here is how you can do it in a "crude" manner to see if you are even close to UO.  If you are "close" then we can go to more accurate and sophisticated measuring techniques.


------------

First you start with the power source and from your power source you go to a series shunt to measure the input current.

I personally use 10 - 1 ohm 100 watt resistors in parrallel to yield .1 ohm at 1000 watts for my "series shunt" to measure input power. 

We can now use the current through the shunt and th4e voltage to accurately calculate the power into the device(s).

Now from your shunt you want to block any rf feeding back into the supply so you put a big coil in series with yout your shunt.  Use something like a 10milli henry coil smoothed by a 10000uf cap.

Now you have nice accurate way to easily measure your filtered source for your generator or your high power output drivers or both which ever way you go.

Put a dc rectifier on the output of your tpu run that to another filter cap and finally the load.

Scope/meter across the shunt for I, and then a meter from the shunt to ground to measure V, finally scope and meter the output across either a known load (resistor) or a shunt and a load.

The object behind this is that it significantly reduces your margin for error because even the crappiest meter can read "pure" or well filtered DC quite easily and quite accurately and so if you are all correct in your believe this will prove it beyond even an engineers doubt that you are on to something that "really" works.

As far as helping is concerned this is it.  There is no better tool at your disposal than to know how to correctly assess your project and what i have given you here is a very crude and simple means of testing (most) energy devices accurately.
 
I hope this serves to clear up where i am coming from and why "everyone" should insist that anyone who wants them to believe in an energy device should at a minimum "insist" on clear and accurate output/input measurements before committing themselves to heavily in these sorts of things.

So here is the math.

Most have gens feeding your power circuitry.

              output
CO =        ----------
              input (-/+) feed circuitry

Granted this is severely over simplified but i think most engineers out here would agree this is one of the most clear cut sure fire way to eliminate skeptism when presenting measured data to a professional in the industry simply because most meters read dc just fine.

Showing a light bulb or a drill or even a tv simply is not a bonafide test and no engineer will ever agree it is.  (this is indisputable)

Granted this setup is crude but it will work and it will yield (with reasonable shielding techniques) accurate results.

Another important point on this is that it will tell you if your latests changes are an improvement or worsening and tell you exactly how much, so that will allow you to quantify your changes rather than kinda sorta bright and brighter dimmer etc. 
If someone gets really close to unity then we can take this to the next step and account for all power used/gained in the system on a per system basis.
 
regards,
kj


..................................................
..............................................

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 02:42:10 AM
OK Bruce,

But that still doesn't answer the question. Two twists should not canel the flux, should it?

The Davis patent uses one twist, and this puts the current in oppostion. The title of the Davis patent is: "Non-inductive electrical Resistor".

That seems to spell out flux cancellation to me.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 02:54:25 AM
Lindsay wrote:
Quote
Darren ,many times i wanted to save you from the spinning magnets..but you were doing such a wonderful and thorough job..there was just a slight chance that ai was wrong ..I shut up!

Would you have apreciated me if I had said that I think that the cap is faulty?

Actually yes. I would have appreciated that Lindsay. If you followed all the thread, you would have noticed that eventually, this was one of my possible explanations for the effect. Perhaps you could have saved me some valuable time and effort.

But yes (I know what you're going to say) I did learn some things, and I enjoyed the journey, just as the guys on the ECD project are. They are learning too, but aren't that open to suggestions that perhaps their results and/or assumptions may be faulty. That's the bummer point IMO.

Learning by one's own mistakes does seem to stick much better than learning from others' advice I suppose.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 16, 2007, 03:21:59 AM
Hi all,

On a more practical level..

I just spent a few hours wondering why my coils ver 2 would not sing..

I used fuel hose..I have lots of it.. i measured the resistance first...sure ...the one piece that i used had a high metal content...i did not check that actual piece....Idiot!..
Just in case others are using fuel hose...put a meter across the actual piece first..

Lindsay
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 04:14:39 AM
Taking the simplification one step further, Otto's and Roberto's circuit without the two wire loops.

Is this representation what's really producing the output?

Interesting...

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 04:22:05 AM
@ Lindsay
Thanks for the tip, I nearly had a cardiac and ran for my coil.  Checked a scrap of my heater hose and all is well.  No metal, just rubber.  ;D 

@ZPE
You are correct in what you say of the double mobius, in theory.  It would not have been something I would have thought of.  Single mobius, yes and was working along those lines when Otto came through with this ECD.  It is a strange beast.  Similar but seemingly very different from SM's TPU.  It is either a hybrid or baby TPU.  I for one think that some of the following needs to be experimented with:

1.  I believe SM inverted DC to AC and had AC in the control coils at 7.23 Hz.
2.  I believe SM had three frequencies, one placed into each collector, the resonant, harmonic and intermodulation.
3.  I believe the primary was around all three collectors and the secondary around only one.  There were three of these, corresponding to all three collectors.
4.  I believe there was a special configuration of the collectors to disable the flux.  I have proof of this from the email on my thread from an investor who attended a demonstration, writing to another investor, he said that the TPU had an "ELLIPTICAL cross section".  In other words, not completely round.  A turn or twist on both sides of the toroid could account for that.
5.  SM's TPU put out DC with an AC signal.  It had to be inverted, far from the toroid to light up AC bulbs.
6.  The ECD turns DC to AC.  What would happen if we ran AC at 7.23 Hz through it and pumped in the same frequencies?

So anyway, I could go on, but these are some wonderful avenues to be experimented with, by me and others.  The answers will come.  Real science takes time.  It took years to learn to raise ocean shrimp in fresh water.  Now it seems so easy, as hindsight always does! LOL

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 16, 2007, 04:36:03 AM
@Lindsay
Thanks for pointing us to the correct direction and your selective words of wisdom certainly came at the right time.

@darren
Well, you certainly are a meticulous person and we need your analytical type here. However, sometimes a little more faith in alternative reasoning wouldn't hurt!

I am so glad to be learning a lot of stuff from all,  'warts and all'! Thanks Lindsay.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 04:42:53 AM
Yes I had considered simulating this beast, and once I began thinking how exactly to model the ES coupling, I realized there is none, or very little.

That's when I noticed the mobius loops were not serving any purpose at all, other than providing a nice radiating element for the HF/RF. (Gee no wonder you guys were cooking yourselves ;) ) Oh, and btw, SM never mentioned any safety concerns regarding radiation, and his device does not apparently radiate much at all, in fact it is very sensitive to external EM interference.

It would be interesting to sim the circuit however without the mobius loop (couldn't sim with it anyway), and see if I can get similar waveforms Otto and Roberto got.

In theory, and if I am correct, removing the mobius loop should have little to no effect on the output power or the waveforms. However, I've been wrong before.

Regards,
Darren

Well Darren, your prediction appears to be correct. Mobius removed and it performs the same, if not a little bit better. See? No bias.. I reported what happened.

So, now the thing is, nobody has yet to test, between Jason and Cam the third frequency on thier setup so maybe the magic happens there.

Otto did say he lit multiple bulbs to full brightness at the same input. Variable load, same input.

So, Ronotte, Otto, I urge you to perform this test as well. Very revealing.

Mr. Mannix. ?

Or if we have failed to see something, please let us know how we should continue, or what we're missing.

By the way this is not to take the wind out of any sails. I still think the setup is interesting and should be tested fully.

Regards,
Rich.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 04:44:21 AM
Chris,

If you want to make bread, first you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 16, 2007, 04:46:49 AM
Do as Darren said to remove the mobius coil. The result is more interesting and important. It is more significant than setting up the web cam. Though Otto said the mobius coil is needed, but no data describing the result. It could be:
(1) No output at all.
(2) 10% as previous maximum output or ? %.
(3) decrease at first, but adjust something could bring it back to previous maximum output.
Which one 1 or 2 or 3 ?

30 Seconds can get the answer, why not the ECD owner try it?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 04:51:12 AM
Thanks for the confirmation Rich.

Whose rig was this tested on?

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 16, 2007, 05:03:46 AM
Hi All,

Quick post here, tonight in the lab with Cam, this is what we found out:-

-just having the bobbins connected, we were able to light the bulb much better without the collector coil,
In other words we removed the mobius top ring and the bottom ring all together, and with 12v@ 1 freq the bulb lit  brighter, than it did with the mobious ring.
We didnt even have it in tpu format, we actually put a straight piece of ferrite rod through the 3 bobbins, this made a difference as it should, without the ferrite, the bulb was dim.

So results are:-

-3 bobbins only, connected as per Ottos drawing, and doesn't have to be in tpu fashion.
-mosfets are key to bringing amperage down compared to power transistors
-Used 1 freq, bulb lit at 50%, just over 1 amp current draw.
-with 2 freq we got 3 amp draw @ 12volts and the bulb was at almost full brightness.
we figured we were getting about 70% efficiency, best to watch the movie.

-then we upped the voltage to 24volts @ same current draw, I believe it was 2 amps, it brilliantly lit the bulb and then not long after blew the mosfets. Note in video were using 12 volts and not 24volts, 24 was tried before we did video.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 16, 2007, 05:06:49 AM
The removing test result by Rich is conflict with Otto. Their setup may have a little difference. Otto should also test it and give detail data.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 16, 2007, 05:11:18 AM
The distance between the coils is critical...

Slow down an bit here.
Otto used plastic nuts and bolts on his way there ...tried moving up and down a bit?
The tuning does change a bit?

Keep going.... 2 freq ....
Im just saving Otto the trouble here!

but of course the design will change. Not sure that you have the base line yet.



Lindsay



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 05:14:20 AM
@Mrd 10
Question:  What was the bulb wattage?

Can you draw a circuit the way you had it wired for us?
It could be a different frequency in each collector (as SM stated, see my post above) and then where they join together, POW.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 05:27:33 AM
Did Cam use a scope and see the "conversion" process through the bobbins from square wave to sine wave?  Did he see the "seed" that Otto and Roberto reference in their .pdf

Did the process look the same as it did with the collectors attached?

Did he try adding more than one bulb at a time?  And why has no one put an amp meter between the output and the light bulb.  If they have I haven't seen that posted.  Or volts output for that matter.. ???

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 16, 2007, 05:34:46 AM
Hi Bruce,

the bulb was a 40watt bulb , @ 120volts
Cam is converting video as we speak. we put a bridge across the load to see and it showed over 1000volts, this was HV,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 05:45:56 AM
Can you say, "WOW!" 

New energy source indeed ...

Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tosky on June 16, 2007, 05:50:32 AM
@Bruce
The "seed-effect" may not be odd. Since Otto use 6V to drive the MOSFET very close to the threshold value of the MOSFET with the miller-effect from the D pin output, it is very easy to drop to under threshold value operating dynamically. That is the MOSFET work at the linear region just like a "class-A" amplifier. Work with the capacitor of the GATE of the MOSFET, it smooths some high frequency square wave to be like a sine wave at some pulse condition. To clarify this, Otto should use a good MOSFET driver such as IRF7307 and at least 12V to drive. The "seed" may be lost.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 16, 2007, 06:47:06 AM
d/l the movie in the first post on this page   8)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 16, 2007, 06:52:51 AM
where's the movie?

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 07:08:30 AM
Ok, AS I SAID, I did not intend to make everyone give up! We haven't even completed replicating yet. To my knowlege nobody since Ronotte has gotten to the third frequency yet, and tuned according to the document. So, What I would like to see, is people perhaps getting to that point, tuning exactly to the document, performing all suggested tests, and doing this experiment again.

It could be that catalyst happens in this setup when the third frequency is added. Three is important and all that jazz. All we have proven thus far is that without the three frequencies it behave according to the tesla transformations as seen in the tesla coil.

I sincerely hope that this platform is not abandoned by the experimenters. Perhaps my timing is not that great.

I want to make someting clear. I am still going to build this as I feel it would be patently unscientific to just walk away without seeing ALL the effects mentioned in the doc. We know that they were telling the truth. But we have yet to bring a device up to full operation.

So, there you have it.

Also, it may be that, as I said, the device has "modes" of overunity. It will power a standard load with normal input if the normal input can handle it, but give the energy source a reason to flow, and it will. Know what I mean?

Anyway, more testing is needed still.

Thanks for the advice Mannix. Of course with no collectors in the device we were not spacing the collectors. We had removed it alltogether to test Darren's hypothesis.

Oh, and someone said it was my test. I can't take any credit as it was cam's hands doing all the work, and I was actually a late comer. Didn't mean to take any undue credit. I was on my way out the door, at the time I posted.

Regards all,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 16, 2007, 07:22:06 AM
@ Any answers for the Q&A needed

I'm not asking onyone to test this. I'm just asking too see if I should wind mine like this?

1) Could the frequency be sent to the primary void instead of the primary negative. By just putting a center tap on the primary when winding the bifilar CC. Is it electronically permissible?

2) Would doing number 1 permit you to remove the ground off the IRF840, or,

3) If the IRF840 needs this ground to function, would doing number 1 reduce the load comming back to ground on the IRF840? An educated guess.

I feel these are three very very important questions as this could give a whole new domension of being able to test parallel and series  CCs, while trying various ring point connections.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 07:33:53 AM
@ Any answers for the Q&A needed

I'm not asking onyone to test this. I'm just asking too see if I should wind mine like this?

1) Could the frequency be sent to the primary void instead of the primary negative. By just putting a center tap on the primary when winding the bifilar CC. Is it electronically permissible?

2) Would doing number 1 permit you to remove the ground off the IRF840, or,

3) If the IRF840 needs this ground to function, would doing number 1 reduce the load comming back to ground on the IRF840? An educated guess.

I feel these are three very very important questions as this could give a whole new domension of being able to test parallel and series  CCs, while trying various ring point connections.

Hmm, that's a very good idea wattsup. I think it would allow for some decent flexibility for sure.

How far along are you in your build? Please post pics when you get to this point.

Regards.
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 16, 2007, 10:30:03 AM
Dom has clearly demonstrated the transformers working without the need for the Mobius coil. I presume his supply voltage was around 12V which would have given 36W consumption by the setup Assuming 50% transfer efficiency this would give around 18W consumption by the bulb which looks about right from the illumination.

Using thicker wire on the secondary, say the same as the primary at 0.5 should improve the transfer with a 1:1 turns ratio. It's well worth experimenting with the amount of ampere turns and graphing the drive current in relation to frequency to get a better understanding.

There are some very interesting solid state Bedini variant designs around utilising the principle shown in Dom's video. I have built some very effective battery chargers using HV radiant energy at audio frequencies using air iron and air cored inductors. The secret is getting the pulse rise time as fast as possible and as we know Mosfets are fine so long as they are driven properly. I suggest the use of high voltage, high power TVS diodes across Drain / Source to supplement the 'slow' protection freewheel diodes integrated in the Mosfet package.

This is an interesting and absorbing area for experimentation where much can be learnt - have fun!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 16, 2007, 11:28:20 AM
Hi Hoppy,

Cam was the one that was in the lab, i was just his assistant, and jotted things down as we went along. In video were using 12volts (battery), note also video was done after we did alot of testing. Do not stop testing your setups, add the 3rd freq and do more tests.
We just did this because this is the time we had and we did it.
Also this is a reference point for other builders that can verify what we did.

Sincerely,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 12:26:43 PM
Hi all,
A fitting time for SM's words:
"Suppose you have 1,000 pieces of wire twelve inches long and you
run the same weak magnetic field over them all at the same time..... you get the same flow of electrons.
If the wires are run in series then you will get the 12,000 millivolts
etc.
If you connect the wires in parallel you will get higher current but
lower voltage.
However, the power potential is the same whether you run the
wires in series or parallel.
If you know how to find the circuit potential, you tune into the frequency and you have enough short pieces of wire you can
convert as much power as you wish in a given space."

AND

"It took several years of experimentation to discover what frequencies and most importantly how to make small integrated circuits work to perform the control functions necessary to make the demonstrations you see on the video tapes available today."

To conclude, this will not be a fast process.  I believe that there will be specific frequencies that will bring the power.  He showed 1000 V.  with the bobbins.  What if they were stranded and wired in parallel and not in series?  And AC changing magnetic field in the coils would also be a good experiment with three frequencies.  We need to be methodical in our experimentation.

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 16, 2007, 12:46:34 PM
Hi Hoppy,

Cam was the one that was in the lab, i was just his assistant, and jotted things down as we went along. In video were using 12volts (battery), note also video was done after we did alot of testing. Do not stop testing your setups, add the 3rd freq and do more tests.
We just did this because this is the time we had and we did it.
Also this is a reference point for other builders that can verify what we did.

Sincerely,

Dom

Apologies for the mix up Dom.

Regards
Clive
Title: USB DDS OSCILLATOR_AUSTRALIA
Post by: Earl on June 16, 2007, 04:32:05 PM
Darren,

If you are only interested in a square wave, there are high-Amp FET drivers that have a Schmitt trigger on the input.  It could very well be that this Schmitt trigger will turn a sine wave into a nice square wave.

Of course, using a 74HC132 Quad 2-input NAND Schmitt Trigger following the DDS oscillator will produce a beautiful square wave with fast rise/fall times.  In this case solder the Schmitt trigger right next to the FET driver.

If you want variable-width pulses, follow the Schmitt trigger with a 74HC74 Dual D Flip-Flop, where the proper output pin goes to the reset pin.  If this pulse is too narrow, it can be widened with a series R, eventually series R followed by capacitor to ground.

In the next days and weeks, I will be posting lots of ideas and useful circuits.  I am real busy right now.

Regards, Earl
Earl.

Thanks for the heads-up on the DDS oscillator.

Unfortunately it doesn't output squares or pulses.

I suppose it one could interface it with their own zero-cross detector, and generate squares and pulses from that.

Regards, Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 04:42:06 PM
Hello all,

SM said:
I am using 6BQ7-A tubes for the input and phase inverter because they
are VHF amplifier triodes designed to operate in Color TV at very high
frequencies and so you can imagine how crystal clear my high frequencies
are in my stereo amplifier.

Now what is this phase inverter for the TPU, I asked myself.  And this is what I found:

"a circuit that generates two output signals, each 180 degrees out of phase with the other. This is a bit of a misnomer, since it does more than just invert the phase of a signal, it actually generates two out of phase signals."

Again, another important line of experimentation!

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 05:01:10 PM
Earl,

Thank you for the ideas. I look forward to your circuits to come.

Years ago I designed a very stable and sensitive LM311-based zero-crossing detector for a project I was working on, but I can not find my schematic.

Will this 74HC132 Schmitt Trigger do just as good or better job?

Thanks,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 16, 2007, 05:25:43 PM
Don't give up folks! I've been watching your progress in AWE. Just recently I've had a chance to read the docs and the threads. Remember, SM was a tech of the first order. That is, his experiences are different than yours. i.e. vacuum tubes, the first usable solid state devices, reciever types that are no-longer used etc.

I too come from that time and maybe a little earlier.

GE abandoned a single gun CRT using toroidal deflection coils that were basically three coils in open air. Only the first was fed three frequencies. The second and third had only inductive coupling to the previous coil. Each succesive coil would have resonated to the next frequency and always seemed to have more turns than the previous coil. I do remember the second and third coils seemed to have no end point. I was populating my junk box and needed the wire.

I remember the stories about these things blowing up. It makes me wonder if they accidentally created some self-regeneration. I know they played havoc with other radio receivers.
You may wish to lookup the operation of a 'regenerative' and 'Super-Regenerative' receiver. This is old stuff but they had very interesting properties.

I will be building one of these soon. I'll let you all know what I find.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 16, 2007, 05:57:23 PM
very intresting, Wave Watcher.
Thank you :)

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 16, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
Quote from: WaveWatcher
You may wish to lookup the operation of a 'regenerative' and 'Super-Regenerative' receiver.

bingo!

another one is the lemw transmission line  :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 16, 2007, 06:29:19 PM
Sorry! My mind is showing my age.

It was one frequency (around 18kHz- horizontal sweep), three signals, 2 was 120 degrees lagging the first and 3 120 degrees lagging the second. If memory serves there would have been nine coils wired in groups of three coils per circuit. I don't remeber if the individual circuits were flipped between coils. i.e. like a Mobius.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 16, 2007, 06:32:07 PM
well if there is anything which comes to your mind, please just post it.
i found the television story quite amazing. :)

Thank you.
Marco
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 16, 2007, 06:41:57 PM
I was really hoping we had struck on something. Guess you could say I am a little sad the Otto tpu didn?t show signs of coupling with the earth or pull from the vacuum. I went back and read SM?s remarks and some things stuck out like ?impossible it is to assume that I may have hidden batteries inside the unit to make the power.? And  ?It is an insignificant power supply except when the two
transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.? Now in his video when he connects more load there is no decrease in the other light. When I tested this last night there was a decrease in output of the first bulb when I connected the other. I hope you folks keep trying and only use what I have done as merely a stepping stone to help understand just how SM and others are coupling with the earth or pulling from the vacuum. I don?t think SM was driving amps to mosfets especially if he claims he used no batteries. Do not think I have given up, I am going back to the drawing board and trying again to understand what other possible ways this can be achieved. This test was not a failler nor to prove anyone wrong. I, just like the rest are striving to achieve true proof of overunity. Keep testing and building, I really hope I missed something that others may discover.         

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 16, 2007, 06:54:51 PM
Thanks Cam  :)

I am too a bit sad aswell as confused about this thread.
I already am building the design so i will finish it to see what it will do.

If it doen's work i will just jump back to what i was testing before.

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 07:28:22 PM
Well good to hear it marco. Me too. Perhaps we'll find something by fully replciating which, still has not been done. Unless Jason has been playing by himself. He's been quiet recently.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 16, 2007, 07:44:56 PM
Rich,

Jason is out for the weekend, will be back on monday....

Robert
Title: Re: Low Cost Variable Duty Cycle Function Gen.
Post by: chrisC on June 16, 2007, 08:37:16 PM
@all:

Anyone tried this before?
Low cost function generator circuit with variable duty cycle  from 1 Hz to 20 MHz.

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=1371

Attached is the circuit (gif) file.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 16, 2007, 08:47:04 PM
Hi Chris,

Myself and a couple of the guys considered this chip, however its no longer made and if you do find one they cost!  I believe if you contact Pese, he has a few and is willing to sell them.


Regards,

Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 08:51:14 PM
Ahh good for him. Unfortunate for us. :)

Hope he has a good time.


Wavewatcher, nice bit of information. I have scoured the web for information on that event, and have found zero. No other cases of tv's blowing up, or imploding or what have you. No information on their mechanics. I guess the only way to find out is to rip one apart.

What I find interesting about your story is that the second and third coils were fed NO frequency, just allowed to couple.

If this is true, then the TV story is a HUGE hint from SM.

If you can find any more information, or relate some more stories about them blowing up that would be interesting. Or if you happen across one to rip apart, before you salvage the wire post a pic, that would be great.

Three rings. Quite interesting.

Also guys, for those of you who feel down in the dumps about this setup, don't sweat it... just yet. As I said before, nobody has fully replicated otto/ronottes "ecd" as yet. Seems everyone stopped short of driving the third frequency, and tuning as per their doc.

If you look toward the end of the doc, you will see that the real magic takes place there. As SM has said all along. We performed this test, although interesting, a bit prematurely. Now, the standard em people are going to tell me it doesn't matter. OK, logically you are correct. It shouldn't matter a bit. But if this thing really does what it does in those videos, we are going to have a wow moment at some point, when something outside our understanding takes place.

Let me explain what we have proven. Strictly speaking, yesterday Cam proved that with two frequencies, this thing does not behave any differently than a tesla coil. Regardless of what's running down the middle of them.

If SM came here, gave exact specs for his device, exact coil arrangement, exact frequencies, exact control unit diagrams, etc. etc. And we only fed it with two frequencies and proclaimed it didn't work, hehe. I can imagine the reaction.

So we have made an assumption. We have assumed that one frequency, or two, will perform, but to a lesser degree, than all three combined. IE. The magic will still be there, just not as much of it. Ahem... That's not a very logical assumption based on SM's notes, and the doc provided by Otto and Roberto.  Hence, we performed this test prematurely. It is a valid test, however, for later on. For now, it's like being told, "vinegar and baking soda react violently together," so we take that info, and assume vinegar, and backing soda, separately will react violently, to a lesser degree. When separately all we have is vinegar.... and baking soda.... Observing them, we say, "nothing special here", they do not react alone, so they must not react together. Absurd assumption, really.  

So, we got a little ahead of ourselves, we, being the group of people who were testing the setup and reporting back. We came and posted videos of interesting phenomena with only two frequencies in use, proclaiming a degree of sucess. Another false assumption. Premature claims.

My suggestion, is build to the end, then report back, and take requests for further testing. ZPE's test will be a good one at that time.

For me, I bought some testing equipment recently. A heat sensor gun, scale (also aids in building controls primary and secondary are 11grams), and a kill-a-watt, for true mains draw measurement at the power supply.

I may also use an inverter with a battery, and the kill-a-watt for draw in that scenario.  

So, if after we have done this, the device has turned out to be nothing spectacular, but a neat garage toy, or homemade microwave, then so be it. We've done our due dilligence, and elminated this, and moved on. Perhaps to Macedonia CDs setup, if we can decypher it.

We should not approach this as, "they proved it to me, therefore i'm gonna build a working TPU." We should approach it as, "They have shown some interesting results, therefor, I will test the setup."

False assumptions (on either side of the spectrum) and premature testing is not going to get us anywhere. I think what this has done however, is brought us back down to earth so we can now test this setup from a proper perspective.  

Regards all,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 16, 2007, 09:18:40 PM
Dave:

Thanks for feedback on the Max038 function generator chip. Yes, you are correct on this. It's available for an arm and a leg. There is another design based on the AD9835BRU (Analog Devices) which goes to 10Mhz (plenty) and that chip (one-off pricing) is around US$7 and readily available. Not sure if that other design allowed for a variable duty cycle.

If anyone has a stable, cheap and variable duty cycle function genertor, please post.

Thanks
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 16, 2007, 09:57:02 PM
Ok guys,

Just looking at the specs for the control coils.  My question would be then, what does Roberto mean by clockwise winding, I mean from what view point?

If I look from one end of a coil its CW and CCW from the other. So does anyone know what he means?

I would hold the former with my left hand and wind with my right, going over the top and back under. Starting left side of the former winding to the right. So looking from the right end of the coil I am winding CW??!>!!!>!


Dave.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 10:08:24 PM
Dave, I'm not sure how you are winding, because when I flip my coil around, it is still clockwise.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 16, 2007, 10:10:49 PM
Dave:

If you stuck out 2 fingers and wind the coil clockwise over the fingers looping back towards yourself, that would be considered clockwise. Both primary and secondary are wound in phase. That's how I interpret this.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 16, 2007, 10:12:23 PM
ZPE, one thing I have been wondering, is if we were supposed to replace the mobius with a ferrite.

When we removed the mobius completely and did not replace it with anything, we could not get the bulbs to light much at all.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 16, 2007, 10:16:24 PM
Ok Rich,

I have had a long day at work!  If I wind a coil and end up with a pig tail which from one end of the coil goes over the top clockwise, if I now look at the other end of the coil, that pig tail now loops over counter clockwise over the top.  Are you saying yours goes in the same direction no matter which end you look at the coil from.

One of us is surely communicating from another dimension here?


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 16, 2007, 10:29:55 PM
@Everyone

I had watched Cam's lab last night until about 8pm CST.  and just now watched the video.  I feel frustrated for several reasons.  Rich hit on one of them, only one frequency was being used, in the video anyway, not three.  There was still no amp reading between the output and the bulb, either the fluorescent or the other.  It was said there was 1000 volts measured at the output with a bridge of High voltage.  What was the amperage?  It looked to be 1.5 amps input with one frequency @12 volts.  This is 18watts input.  But output were two bulbs, 1000 volts and no amp readings.  And this with only one frequency and no phase inversion (we should still put all of SM's clues into our experiments)  And it comes across as, "ho hum, no big deal, just another tesla coil.  Time to move on to something else." 

Very frustrating.  My wire came in the mail, to finish my last control coil, Mobius One is on the launch pad.  Circuit will be built tomorrow with my partner, I hope.

@Otto and Roberto
Thank you both for your tenacity, and keep plugging along.  Keep us informed of any new findings or ideas.  We are with you guys.  Jason has built and is just getting going.  Rich is building, Marco is building, Lindsay is building. I am building.  Patience, perserverence, single mindedness, creativity and accurate testing.  Experimenting according to SM's words will yield results.   :)

Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 16, 2007, 11:48:43 PM
Guess I forgot to mention I did try 3 frequencies, it seem to kill the effect. Who has used 3 frequencies?

2 Frequencies doubled the amp draw, sure the light was brighter.   

Guess I also forgot to mention I did bridge the output <u see it sitting there in the movie> and mesured the amps or should I say ma which would barley read on a 1 amp meter. It was 1200v at .01 amps = 16 watts and I was driving it with 18 watts. Theres lots of volts there but no current. Guess I'll grab 3 more mosfets next week, put it back together and make a movie of the whole thing.

I want this to work just like everyone else so I'll give it another go.

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 16, 2007, 11:52:54 PM
ZPE, one thing I have been wondering, is if we were supposed to replace the mobius with a ferrite.

When we removed the mobius completely and did not replace it with anything, we could not get the bulbs to light much at all.

Rich

What I think I said, and meant to say was, first with the two loops present, obtain some luminosity in the bulb, and note the intensity (take a snapshot of it for comparison).

Next, remove the wire loops, and again power up the device and take another snapshot to compare to the first. This is not an exact or reliable method, and is not the one I would be using myself. However, since everyone seems determined to use only bulbs, then that's what we have to work with I guess.

The bulb intensity should be about equal, if nothing else was changed. Keep in mind some tweaking of the frequency may be necessary to re-establish resonance again, if it drifted slightly for some reason. Keep the relative positions of the coils the same as when they had the wire loops going through.

Regarding the ferrite rod, there was no mention of the order in which things were done or swapped, so I am going to assume the following:

With the wire loops removed, and the ferrite rod inserted, a peak luminosity level was established. Then the ferrite rod was removed, and the intensity went to zero, or some low level.

Is this correct?

If yes, then I would expect that result. If things were done differently, please explain how.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 12:46:06 AM
ZPE, one thing I have been wondering, is if we were supposed to replace the mobius with a ferrite.

When we removed the mobius completely and did not replace it with anything, we could not get the bulbs to light much at all.

Rich

What I think I said, and meant to say was, first with the two loops present, obtain some luminosity in the bulb, and note the intensity (take a snapshot of it for comparison).

Next, remove the wire loops, and again power up the device and take another snapshot to compare to the first. This is not an exact or reliable method, and is not the one I would be using myself. However, since everyone seems determined to use only bulbs, then that's what we have to work with I guess.

The bulb intensity should be about equal, if nothing else was changed. Keep in mind some tweaking of the frequency may be necessary to re-establish resonance again, if it drifted slightly for some reason. Keep the relative positions of the coils the same as when they had the wire loops going through.

Regarding the ferrite rod, there was no mention of the order in which things were done or swapped, so I am going to assume the following:

With the wire loops removed, and the ferrite rod inserted, a peak luminosity level was established. Then the ferrite rod was removed, and the intensity went to zero, or some low level.

Is this correct?

If yes, then I would expect that result. If things were done differently, please explain how.

Darren

Ok, what you have outlined is not the test we performed. At least, not when I was there. Cam, Mrd, Mike? Can you guys verify if this is what was done? When I came into the conference All three spools were connected as they should be to the control board as per the document without the ring in. They were lined up so that a longish ferrite rod could be slipped through the hole in the center of all the spools, hence, their relative position was not as it was when they were on the loop. Yes, you are correct, when the rod was removed, the bulb lost luminosity. I'm not sure if retuning it without the rod could achieve similar luminosity to when the mobius was in the equation or not, as I didn't witness any attempt to retune it without the ferrite in the spools.

There was conversation about testing with no ferrite. If I remember correctly they couldn't get similar luminosity at all. But when the ferrite was added it would light brightly as in their video. I DID see him tune it with the ferrite in, and remove it and the bulb lost 90% of it's brightness, but this is to be expected.

So that's what I saw, if there's any more info you need, I don't really know much more.

Based on what I witness however it seems that we may have not performed it correctly? Or are the differences consequential?

It would seem to me that we would want to keep all the variables as similar as possible no? Just without the coils. Reduction only works well if you remove one variable at a time. If you change multiple variables, you can't tell which one caused the results. IE, change in relative position, and ferrite.

Am I on the right track here?

Rich

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 17, 2007, 12:57:38 AM
I would agree Rich.

To be fair and correct, as I mentioned the coils should be in the same position for both scenarios.

For the test done with and without the ferrite, that's another ball game altogether.

I would expect two things to differ with and without the ferrite:

1) The bulb should be brighter with the ferrite (higher L = higher bemf?)
2) The main resonant frequency will be different with the ferrite, and should be lower.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 01:07:28 AM
I would agree Rich.

To be fair and correct, as I mentioned the coils should be in the same position for both scenarios.

For the test done with and without the ferrite, that's another ball game altogether.

I would expect two things to differ with and without the ferrite:

1) The bulb should be brighter with the ferrite (higher L = higher bemf?)
2) The main resonant frequency will be different with the ferrite, and should be lower.

Darren

OK, that's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure, and didn't want to seem like I was trying to pooh, pooh cam's test results. Just trying to make sure we compare apples to apples as we do our reduction tests.

@Cam, you must have done a lot before I got there? I never saw you do any loopless experiment with three frequencies. When you tried you blew a fet. In fact didn't you blow two fets?

Sorry if I misrepresented anything, I just musta missed that.

Also, I'm not trying to get you to do it again if you are satisfied with the results.

In fact, I'd MUCH rather see Otto, or Ronotte perform this test, than for you to REDO it.

That would tell us if there are differences in the setups or not. You did a great job last night.

So, since we are all in different locations with different setups, it's difficult to see everything as it goes by on a web cam or if we're shooting the breeze in a conference with a lot of people talking it's hard to follow multiple conversations, etc. It can be hard to make sure we're all doing what the other guy is. So if different people perform the same tests and get the same results, it's easy to be sure we have essentially the same setup.

I just wanna be sure that

A. We did the test right
B. We are testing the right setup. (we built correctly)
C. We did the test at the right time.
D. We interpret the results correctly.

As I said, I came in late so I'm not sure about a couple of those questions. And because I wasn't sure what ZPE meant for sure by "removing the mobius".

Because we would get different results with ferrous material in the middle or not.

Rich


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 17, 2007, 01:32:10 AM
Folks

I am not satisfied with the results... I found 4 IRF730's in my trickle trunk and checked the specks against the 840's looks good, these are used in power supply switching. I have the tpu back together and ready, just fixing up the 555 drivers and getting the right trim pots for the frequencies. The ?remove the ring test? was done as follows: I tuned the tpu with 1 frequency after I tested 2 and 3 frequencies. Why one frequency? I seen the same results as with 2, I just was pulling to many amps with 2 frequencies. As I said before the third frequency killed the bulb. Then once tuned with 1 frequency I left everything the same and removed the antenna, fired up again and right away noticed it was brighter. I then continued removing the lower antenna incase it was causing an affect. Same brightness... Then I removed the spools and again tested ... same brightness. With the ferrite rod I slipped it in re-tuned the frequency to the ferrite and brighter went the bulb. Adding the ferrite and it's effects are standard electronics. I should be fired up in a few hours with these other mosfets BUT Tonight I am going to lower the input voltage because these mosfets can't handle 12v and when you are tuning it will draw out 7 amps. Also we really should be diodeing the BEMF back to the supply so it don't hit the mosfets. If I blow 1 mossfet I will be adding diodes. Tonight I hope all your wishes come true. I will give it my best to measure everything, make a video and satisfy all our questions if these mosfets work, otherwise we will have to wait till next week or for someone else who is ready.

Also a few posts back I posted the Otto PDf I was using. I followed it to a T and also verified with Jason.

Cam   
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 17, 2007, 01:53:17 AM
Cam,

Your test sounds pretty conclusive to me, if you returned the coils to their original positions, as it sounds like you did.

The FETs should give you better power output, and less power input too. I doubt however that the wire loops will have any effect....but we'll see.

I have a theory as to why the wire loop diminished your output slightly in the original configuration, and that is because it is a shorted wire loop (or two loops to be exact).

I believe it is well known that a single shorted turn on any coil will severely, if not totally reduce the coil's ability to store a magnetic field. Although the wire loops are at 90? to the coils, the upper loop may be at such an angle as to have a slight effect on the coils' fields, thus reducing their outputs. It's a theory anyway.  :-\

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: replicator on June 17, 2007, 02:11:56 AM

Just for a moment... I DONT BELIVE MAGIC. Every phenomen has a physic background. (Just maybe we havent found the way to describe it with mathematics yet.)

Is anybody tried to disconnect the CC's transformers secondary output from the Moebius? You tell about disconnecting the Moebius loop, and dont thinking about the CC coils and Moebius loop interaction. Yes, I know you will be not measure excessible power, just something "inducated" voltage. But...

[offtopik]
I have been thinking about the FE excessing methods sameness for many years ago. Phisics says that the electrons in wires dont able to travel just about a few centimeters per second because of irregular crystal grid caused resistance. In supercnductivity the electrons travels in Cooper-pairs. There is an interaction between the electron pairs and cristal grid.
[on]

The TPU=ECD is quite different. If the magnetic fux is eliminated by Moebius (or bifilar wounding) the electrons doesnt will travel faster!!!! In this device it seems that the magnetic field from CC coils primaries just makes pulsating electromagnetic fileld. Dont forget if anybody knows Maxwell equations! It told that the electric component of Pointing vector is perpendicular to the magnetic. Why is it importnt for TPU?
JUST because the CC coils will be inducate electric field between the Moebius loop two wires bacause it is perpendicular to it. Just a reason why Moebius (or simple two wires) is necessary in CC coils.

WHAT is itself the Moebius loop(s)? It has two different goals. Firstly it is a condenser, yes, simple conenser where the CC coils inducate electric potential. Secondly it is a consenser of CC coil's secondary part together built a parallell LC tank. (For my mind, with physic considerations it is magic.) And why interest to use induction less condenser as a "secondary of induced Pointing electric potential"? Hmmm... To prevent black out of flux induced potential, so the Poining potential will remain.

What is the benefit the Moebius loop from LC physics scope? Yep... It seems that it is a induction less capacitor. DONT throw it from the device. Just thinking about: without it, you will get a simple transformers (maybe Tesla like) from your CC coils. In every frequency. Thats all. With it, it will be the capacitor of CC's secondary and will resonate... And imagine: If the Moebius capacitor will give extra energy from Pointing potential, at the right phase, within its resonance with CC's secondary... the energy will be increasing.

So I have several pages with Maxwell equtations derived to enable  over unity. Is anybody interested in Maxwell mathematics? If yes, I will post the full mathematic hypotezis to this forum.  (Note: It is nor my discovery, as I know is not known, but I found similarity between the hipotezis and the physics of TPU...)

Sorry but I dont think currently what is the importance of "3 of frequencies" and "rotating field", because it seems that the three CC coils and the Moebius "capacitor" has 1 main resonance. Maybe the Moebius has own resonance freq, if anybody from you are HAM (radio amateur) it would be greatful check it with a GDO. Or  an another explanation that the 3 frequencies in phase, the Pointing potential induced waves will be travelling in Moebius, and it seems that with two "in pahase" frequency, there is no direction because of its 2 dimensional speading in Moebius (just imagine a line with 2 point on it, you are able to start moving in line two direction: to another point or to opposite direction... there is no synchronization).
The third freqency will be CLOSE the loop from the standpoint of transmission of waves in a line. If it in phase, it will blocking (black out) and/or adding wave with accurate timings. Thats why we need three different source to start spinning of waves toward of Moebius line...

Finally, Its too late to continue my brainstorming, I hope somebody curious about finding  exact parameters of this circuit and WHY important every little element of this construction, and WHY SM told as he told. I try to understand all and if you want I try to interpret it for US.

Regards,
replicator

PS: sorry for my English and the long post.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 17, 2007, 02:30:41 AM
Replicator,

You are right in that the wire loops do form a capacitor, and that they are in parallel with the secondaries.

However, the wire loops are actually quite short, and in comparison to the much higher self-capacitance of each secondary coil (and all 3 in parallel), this loop capacitance would shift the resonant frequency of the secondaries only slightly.

Other than a slightly lower resonance frequency, the circuit and operation remain unchanged.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on June 17, 2007, 02:37:42 AM
Good thought Replicator. I don't have my scope working and it may be a gonner :( but what I'd like to see if the mobius wire was replaced with RGB58 (coax cable)-sheathing removed,  so the skin effect would be more prominent. the Rf would be on the outside of the wire and the AG material would be moot.   
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 17, 2007, 02:38:31 AM
Any comments from Otto and Roberto on Cams latest testing?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 17, 2007, 03:09:23 AM
Hi guys!

One builder...Good on you Com.

I dont know what to make of this yet but I will not go about changing any thing untill i get the effect of the top and bottom coil offering extra out put..like in the doc....then and only then would I take either of them away. ..If i did not achieve that point I would be looking for something i did wrong.



this group mentality to one person testing risks a "race to the bottom".

It will be more lively as more devices are under our noses...
 Looking foward to contributing with that.

I like Ottos term..... PC Heros!...that is if you don't have one under construction.

Great days!

Lindsay

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 17, 2007, 03:30:55 AM

Sorry but I dont think currently what is the importance of "3 of frequencies" and "rotating field", because it seems that the three CC coils and the Moebius "capacitor" has 1 main resonance. Maybe the Moebius has own resonance freq, if anybody from you are HAM (radio amateur) it would be greatful check it with a GDO.

@Lindsay
Well said and ditto's

@ Replicator
You did very well and I agree with about 90% of what you said.  About the three frequencies and their importance.  I believe that SM clues us that ALL THREE are a derivitive of the resonant.  Resonant, 2nd harmonic of the resonant and intermodulation for the third, this of course is the sum of the first two to form a unique third.

I have also been stating for some time now, that it was not either an accident or coincidence that SM mentions SPECIFIC frequencies.  He mentions his "resonance" at 35 KHz.  But instead of leaving it at that, he clues us in to the exact frequency, of 35.705 KHz.  Now, why would he do this if it were unimportant.  Here is his exact words.

"I made an amp and had a really difficult time with a 35K resonance.
I had so much trouble with it that I finally left the resonance there.
I last measured it at 35.705K at a really high level.
It is a good thing that I can't hear that high.
But it does prove that my output transformer is capable of going up to
245K HZ
.
Which I measured.
HEY, did you know that the frequency is proportional to the
speaker's circumference?
it appears that the frequency should change with the
circumference of the speaker.
That makes sense to you does it?
No one I have talked to realizes that yet.
I use 15" speakers myself. They are 15" from the dead center of the
outside flange to the other sides flange.
You know transistors just don't do well at those high frequencies.
They try hard but they just make all sorts of harmonics all over the place.
dirty things transistors.
MOSFETS are better you know if you wanted to make an amplifier that behaved as though it was a tube amp but in a smaller size."

I know that there is a way to "adjust" the resonance by the use of a cap and resistor.  Could not the resonance of our TPU be made to resonate at 35.705 KHz.  Then the second frequency would be 71.41 KHz.  Then the third frequency would be 107.12 KHz

I have pointed out evidence on my thread from an invester their at a demonstration, that SM clipped wire from his tpu until it reached resonance.  That means he "TUNED" the TPU to the frequency, NOT the other way around.  I have said this for weeks and feel like I am spitting in the wind.  SM did leave some great clues.  I mention one earlier about the signal being phase inverted for each of the frequencies.  No one says anything.  I post where SM said it, and still not a word.  I even posted where to find the circuit to do this and still no one takes it to heart.

The TPU is tuned to the one of the frequencies he told us.  The three frequencies are derived of that ONE.  Each of the three frequencies then need to be phase inverted as SM states, 180 degrees would be a start.  A Phase inverted signal is really two identical signals out of phase (sound familiar).  Think of the added speed to the kicks as this is multiplied by each of the frequencies.  GK has it right in his last couple of posts in his thread and nailed it as well.  It is about Speed.  The controller is about SPEED.  Disabling the flux is about SPEED.  Phase inversion is about SPEED.... Speed is energy.  Theory of relativity.

Thank you for your time,  Maybe someone with better electronics skills than I hears me.

Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 17, 2007, 03:41:10 AM
Bruce,

I wonder sometimes how much of our so called electronic skills are of assistance here ....multimeter...how to solder.....basic wiring ..now its getting harder...
BTW I suggest that everybody get an analouge meter here ..digitals....all of them...especially the cheapo's  are a problem!

I will be stupid untill i see an electron...or are they particles*&*!

Lindsay

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 03:55:40 AM
Weeeeellllp.

Great Cam, good to see you checking it all out again. Doubling tests is always a good idea. I still wish Roberto or Otto would do it, or at least comment on it. I haven't seen Roberto online anywhere today.

I am curious why you arent satisfied? Sounds like you did everythign right, and that most of the test was done before I got there.

So, My coil is done, after rewinding my controls, and due to shipping mishaps, I have no fets or drivers. Drivers got misdelivered, and fets are at my office. Aaaagggggghh. I hate UPS.

So the specs are (in american gauges)
Primary is 24ga., 13'8 3/4",(did a conversion of the lenght in meters of their primary) 12 grams in weight.

Secondary is 28ga., 12grams in weight (did not mesure lenght, as I just made it mass equivalent to the primary.)  But judging by the turns it's a little more than twice as long. Perhaps 2.5 times so that would make it about 33 feet or so.

Total weight (with the spool which is 11 grams) for each control was 35 grams.

Wound clockwise via a drill, bifilar till the primary ran out, then finished winding the secondary.

Resistance of the controls was .5 ohm

Collector is composed of dual 18 gauge stranded speaker wire around 3/4 OD vinyl tubing. The bottom part is not shown in the pic, but since there's nothing special about that, you can use your imagination for it.

Here's a pic.  Took it with my camera phone, sorry for the quality.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 17, 2007, 04:00:04 AM
Hey Rich:

With your one hose contraption, you ain't got that 44mm spacing which according to Otto, maximizes the coupling effect? Then you aren't comparing apples to apples. Just a thought.

Cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 04:05:09 AM
Hey Rich:

With your one hose contraption, you ain't got that 44mm spacing which according to Otto, maximizes the coupling effect? Then you aren't comparing apples to apples. Just a thought.

Cheers
chrisC

Chris that's not the whole thing, The 4" one is not there at all. This is the more complicated one, so this is all I showed. You guys can use your imagination for the rest.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 17, 2007, 04:07:14 AM
Rich:

Sorry, I misunderstood. OK the 4" is not there! Duh!

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 17, 2007, 04:29:05 AM
Rich,

I have gone to a lot of trouble to give my windings a fat wing shape...in cross section.

Used a dummy section of 6" as a former ....oval shaped tighter on one side, where the collector is...paper underrneath then wrapped the windings..super glue,tape ...20 mins.......slide it off...it is what  gives the acelleration effect acording to Otto, Not sure if Jason used that..Perhaps I have misunderstood something in the doc...It could be important. I also put the cable the hard way,,,,90 deg to how most others have ...like Otto said.Watcharekon?


Lindsay

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 04:37:25 AM
Ack, you are right. It hadn't even occured to me that in winding on these things as Jason, and Cam, and I have, that we are giving up that bit of the design, as it remains round. The hose is not JUST a spacer. It's also a shaper.

let me ask you a question. How far did you spread them out? Did they each take up a third of your ring, or just a small bit as if it were on one of these spools?

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 05:04:55 AM
well, I just went in to rewind my coils(yet again) and just didn't have the energy. I sat there and stared at them for a while and just walked away. I'll get to it, but the prospect of UNWINDING a bifilar coil was not very exciting at the moment.

so it'll sit there over night at least.

However, I think i'll test it this way, and see what the difference is when I rewind them.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 17, 2007, 05:26:56 AM
Rich, Lindsay.

Just wanted to say that I admire your guys' dedication and tenacity.

Good luck with your tests too.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 06:54:26 AM
Thanks ZPE, I just keep going back to Otto and Ronotte's doc, and it seems that we must be doing something different.

Cam said when he added the third frequency the bulb died before. Otto and Roberto say the opposite.

Otto has said he's seen the inertial effects, and we have not so far noticed that. I haven't seen any rotating compasses, yet otto confirms that too.

He talks about massive amounts of power, and we haven't see any "full conversions" yet.

So, perhaps it's what Lindsay said. My coils may be (yet again) wrong.

I want to be as close to theirs as possible in order to test and see thier effect.

Lindsay said we would be better off using analog scopes, so I have a 5 channel 100mhz, to test with, etc, etc.

I have three max038 based frequency generators, and I'm getting the IRF840s and Drivers. My fets got shipped to someone else, and my drivers are coming on monday. Uggghhhh. Murphey's law.

I bought a hand held temp reader, and a scale for measuring, etc.


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 17, 2007, 07:12:39 AM
Hey Rich:

Are your max380 generators made from discreets or are they part of a complete instrument package (make /model)? Just curious. Trying to find a good, cheap function genertor I don't have to pay an arm/leg for.

Thanks
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 17, 2007, 07:37:38 AM
btentzer .. please .. we dont want u to be spitting in the wind, especially if it was blowing against u .. me personally, i would like to think there is no wind ..  :P

seriously though .. here is the quote .. the FULL few paragraphs .. u have to read what SM says in CONTEXT .. SM CAN NOT give out the frequencies .. if he did, as he has afore mentioned, he would seriously be canned!!!

as u can see in the bold .. he is talking about building an amp for his sound system .. one that uses a tv tube instead of SS .. the REASON he mentions it is to point out the issue of harmonics, and how hard it is to get rid of them, and control the frequencies as needed.

NOTE: the frequencies differ depending on the circumference, and length of wires!!! .. the algorithm for getting the 3 frequencies is probably what is patented with the controller unit. it took SM and his crew a few years to find out that algorithm.

devilzangel
..

Quote
Any deviation from the original signal or addition to , Harmonic and intermodulation is not good for stereo enjoyment, you know... Stereo? I have a three channel system I listen to. Sometimes the three channels combine together to create the most magnificent sound you could imagine. A whole new sound stage opens up and suddenly you are transformed to someplace else. Gosh, the reason I just hate transistors is because they are so slow and generate so much distortion!!! I think that transistors are basically useless for listening to really good high fidelity. all those harmonics somehow get through to the music output and just ruin the music... I am sure that you know what I am referring to.
...
...
However when I want to design a new amp I always start with tubes and
when I get them perfected I move on the MOSFETS... I made an amp and had a really difficult time with a 35K resonance. I had so much trouble with it that I finally left the resonance there. I last measured it at 35.705K at a really high level. It is a good thing that I can't hear that high. But it does prove that my output transformer is capable of going up to 245K HZ. Which I measured. That makes sense to you does it? No one I have talked to realizes that yet. I use 15" speakers myself. They are 15" from the dead center of the outside flange to the other sides flange. You know transistors just don't do well at those high frequencies. They try hard but they just make all sorts of harmonics all over the place. dirty things transistors. MOSFETS are better you know if you wanted to make an amplifier that behaved as though it was a tube amp but in a smaller size. Well as soon as I get my amp finished I will let you know if I have any more problems with it. But I like the sound and the power of it already.
Take care.
Sincerely,

the only "secret" hint SM MIGHT be trying to convey is that IF u use 15" diameter TPU, the res frequency would be 35.705Khz (frequency 3) .. go find freq 1 and freq 2 .. lol .. anybody interested in building a 15" ring??? i doubt it .. as GK keeps reminding us .. BE VERY CAREFUL with these devices .. they can really COOK u alive. Imagine what a 15" TPU can do... ANYWAYS, i think SM as a frank person, not someone who wants to pass on secret code through his letters
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 17, 2007, 08:40:22 AM
And let me deeply apologize here:
I am sorry to all that I missed mentioning this one little fact all along.
The safety issue is this:
You don't need a working tpu to hurt yourself.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 17, 2007, 09:46:43 AM
Hi All,

Tonight we did conclusive tests, video and audio conference were Rich, GK , Cam and myslef, Cam was doing the tests with OTTO's TPU, Cam will convert the video and post it in alittle while.

Mobiuos setup:-

With 3 frequencies, roughly 25% duty cycle.

f1,f2,and f3 are slightly offset from 80khz, we found that this was a good setting.
tried other frequencies as well, but saw nothing special.

measured input draw on battery 10volts @ 3Amps = 30watts

measured DC bridge FWB output:- 5volts, current draw 4mA's, thats .02watts.
with capacitors on the FWB it was roughly 400volts, really strange then because basically what is lighting the light bulb, we think it maybe RE.

Note:- couldn't measure the voltage on the + and - of the FWB directly, we had to stick caps on the bridge so we could read the volts.

Cam also shorted out the output of FWB and was getting large sparks. then he put a spark gap on the output, This is what's lighting the bulb.

Without the mobiuos coil, with 3 frequencies didn't make much difference, still same results, one note:- 3rd freq actually seems to dampen the output of the bulb and draw more current.

Again, video coming soon, another thing getaway from using powersupply, the tpu likes to say, please sir give me more.....

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 17, 2007, 10:10:17 AM
Its 2am and a Big Thank You to your help boys. We really kicked butt tonight. I have bits and pieces of video to put together and narrate so give me some time. I hope I satisfy everyone?s expectations. Here are the points I would like to make. This has output just like a Tesla coil. And with that all the inherent problems with measuring output. Digital meters are crap never use them, the only analog meters that can stand up to the output cost me a arm and a leg and I don?t even really trust them. The point is the output was bridged, capped and volt and amp readings taken. But this is no way to measure this. I used a spark gap and will have to calculate the volts by the distance. The THIRD Frequency well like I said before it seem to dim the light and increase the amps and I tried from the -3 harmonic up to the 80khz that the coils perform best. After 4 hours of tests I disconnected the antenna and no difference. BTW has no one thought that perhaps we need to run the HV output through those rings to create a swirl????/ I will test this set up later. Also I need to build a step down coil to really measure the output and this needs to be done how Tesla describes in his wireless transmission. The watts show nothing because of the measuring trouble but the light still performed as last night and was not brighter than it?s draw. The sparks were fun though. Well better get some sleep.

PS if I can create the proper stepdown unit to give back amps and it is OU guess I will have egg on my face LOL.

Oh the new mosfets worked better.

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 17, 2007, 10:11:51 AM
Hey Rich:

Are your max380 generators made from discreets or are they part of a complete instrument package (make /model)? Just curious. Trying to find a good, cheap function genertor I don't have to pay an arm/leg for.

Thanks
chrisC

Hi i found a cheap do it youreself generator based on two 555 timers in a old book.
Marco
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 17, 2007, 10:24:56 AM
Hi Marco,

can you scan that and post it, its really not clear as it is.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 17, 2007, 10:30:29 AM
I don't recall seeing this so I'll post in-case it will help. I will be using this info to construct my coil...

As a HAM I read 35kHz as the target design freq for the larger coil. 35.705 is probably where it finnally tuned. Trimming the coil translates to trimming the tuning stub - common on antennas. He stresses the highest possible Q for this antenna. This is a magnetic only Mobius loop antenna, BTW.
He repeats 'tube'. You increase Q on a loop antenna by increasing the conductor diameter - I'll use coax connected in a Mobius fashion. Coax has a 'Speed' factor. This is related to capacitance and inductance of the cable.
His amp can go to 245K. That reads as the smaller antenna (the amplifier), also Mobius, is lower Q with a working bandwidth from 35 to 245K.
15 inch speaker = 15 inch diameter of the larger antenna - center of conductor to center of conductor. Knowing the diameter, frequency and conductor diameter it is possible to calculate number of turns and turn spacing.
Mobius loop antennas are used to reduce or eliminate the capacitance of the coils of the antenna. This makes them insensitive to noise, wider banded and in a non-HAM description - FASTER. It also improves the loop antenna characteristic of not being sensitive to the electrical part of the signals - magnetic only.
Also there is a big difference between coils wound with each layer stacked or spiralled.
Mainly it can reverse directivity, make it uni-directional or completely NULL one or both sides of the figure eight pattern.
If I was building a loop antenna - I would never use stranded wire. Tubing is almost always preferred (these SLF freqs are an exception) but stranding equates to more work for electron flow at almost anything above audio - and slower travel.

Ther appear to be more 'radioman' clues there but I'm beat.

It may be a good idea to look at some HAM loop antenna web pages. There are some web calculators that will give ideas on what the sizes and number of turns mean to this project.
Very late for me here. Good night. I'm still running numbers to translate his magnet king story.
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 17, 2007, 11:59:06 AM
Hi Chrisc,
You may want to look at the TL494, it has duty cycle control (45% to 0%) and the output I think is about 200mA so you can drive the mosfet directly.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl494.pdf
Some of the newer PWM controllers have a true drive(push-pull) output and are even better.
I have had the TL494 running up to 700KHz.
Or you can build a DDS 20 kit from ELV in Germany, cost about 60 euros plus you need an AD811 op amp if you want the sine wave output.
http://shop.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325
The duty can be controlled by an external op amp connected to the sine wave output.
The good thing with the DDS 20 is it has a good clear display of the freqency and has a sweep mode too.
But for simple, cheap and chearful, the TL494 would be a good bet.

Hi Wavewatcher,
Some useful info you have there. Can you find out the number of  turns we need to get resonance at 35KHz?
I have some LMR400 cable that I could use for the mobius loop.
What about using microbore pipe, say 8mm or 10mm?
Easy to bend to shape.

Hi All,
I did the first experiment that Otto/Roberto has shown in their PDF report.
I could not see any peaks with different lengths of solder wire.
The pk-pk increased as the wire got shorter.
Going from:
100cm of 1.2mm solder wire, 5V input at 1.9 amp pulsed at 7.6KHz (best amplitude) pk-pk of 27V
down to
5cm, 5V, 1.96amp, 7.6KHz, pk-pk 34V.
Coil was 50 turns of 0.56mm enameled copper wire.

It showed a linear increase for the shorter wire.

It made no difference if the wire was inside the coil or not. 
I must be doing something wrong.

Rob



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 17, 2007, 03:36:39 PM
Thanks Rob for the TL494 info, and the heads-up on the DDS board.

I've emailed ELV to see if they have an English version of the info pdf and if they'd ship to Canada. This one looks very promising.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 17, 2007, 04:01:12 PM
The SG3525 is a another PWM chip. This one has totem-pole output and an anboard regulated 5V supply. I've used these in several applications and I prefer them to the TL494.

Datasheet at: -
http://www.chipcatalog.com/Datasheet/372D30FBF5AC679BCC1E8BCA3B07EC4C.htm

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 17, 2007, 04:28:55 PM
Thanks Rob for the TL494 info, and the heads-up on the DDS board.

I've emailed ELV to see if they have an English version of the info pdf and if they'd ship to Canada. This one looks very promising.

Darren

Yeh, this is definately a hook. I'd buy 3 right off the bat simply to get 20mhz @ below 150USD ea. for small form factor and portabililty. The output would be to spec and very tight. Very professional.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantleap on June 17, 2007, 04:31:45 PM
I think this is a good time to remind people of something SM said.

"I ask you, what are these guys thinking about when they let their
ego's force them to ignore things i have said in the beginning and go off
trying to design and develop their own control devices using SS units.
SS units which are OUTBOARD of the collector ring i might add?
Some of them have gotten results and some of them have gotten big
power surges and dissipation of heat... all of which is wonderful and
certainly proves the point that there is truly something going on here.
BUT, i guarantee you that their SS control devices are all sitting right
beside the collector... aren't they?

They will probably never start the coil and get to catalyst.
I am not saying it is impossible, but it will Damn difficult for these guys to
get more then a big bang once in a while.
And just like me, that big bang will excite them enough to continue for a
while longer.
Maybe one of them will read back and see where I said the SS control
device must be placed inside the collector coil.
then they will explode with, MY GOD, maybe that is the reason why......
and off they will go. in the right direction at least.


God Bless
Tim.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantleap on June 17, 2007, 04:35:08 PM
In relation to my previous post, think in the eye of the hurricain!

God Bless
Tim.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 17, 2007, 05:26:13 PM
@Rob & @Hoppy:
Thanks again for the chip references. Yes, I did try to find a distributor who carries the DDS board in the US but without success. It's not that expensive but adds up when you need 3! Other thing I'm not sure if it still needed an output buffer to get the critical rise times? And also whether it had the logic to vary duty cycle?

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 17, 2007, 05:34:05 PM
I think this is a good time to remind people of something SM said.

"I ask you, what are these guys thinking about when they let their
ego's force them to ignore things i have said in the beginning and go off
trying to design and develop their own control devices using SS units.
SS units which are OUTBOARD of the collector ring i might add?
Some of them have gotten results and some of them have gotten big
power surges and dissipation of heat... all of which is wonderful and
certainly proves the point that there is truly something going on here.
BUT, i guarantee you that their SS control devices are all sitting right
beside the collector... aren't they?

They will probably never start the coil and get to catalyst.
I am not saying it is impossible, but it will Damn difficult for these guys to
get more then a big bang once in a while.
And just like me, that big bang will excite them enough to continue for a
while longer.
Maybe one of them will read back and see where I said the SS control
device must be placed inside the collector coil.
then they will explode with, MY GOD, maybe that is the reason why......
and off they will go. in the right direction at least.


God Bless
Tim.


OK good point Tim. Otto, Roberto and all who have so far tested, did you place your control circuitry inside the loop when you took the data published?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 17, 2007, 07:31:46 PM
@ZPE,
I am translating the German DDS 20 manual at the moment and plan to send a copy to ELV. Most of it done, just not the theory about the sine wave details.

@Giantleap,
Yes, I know about that and that is a problem, but the best we can do is to put the mosfet driver and mosfet inside the TPU and shield the rest.  The DDS 20 has a metal can shield around all of the high frequency circuitry.

@Chrisc,
The TL494 would benefit from an external mosfet driver at frequencies over 300KHz as it is only really meant to operate up to 300KHz.
The TL494 has the ability to vary the duty, but the DDS 20 will need an external op-amp connected to the sine wave output.

@Hoppy,
Yep, there are loads of other PWM chips. 
I also have the UC28025 (bought for my MEG project - JLNs MEG reproduction) that is good to 1MHz and 1.5A direct drive output.
(I'll take your 200mA @ 500KHz  and raise it to 1500mA @ 1MHz!)
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/uc28025.pdf

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 17, 2007, 08:09:32 PM
@ giantleap

Otto had his mosfets and drivers in the center and on an aluminum heat sink.  Watching Cam's lab, it did not look like he had anything in the center.  As for Jason, I do no know.

Cheers and God bless,
Bruce  (P.S.  Good quote... LOL)  ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 17, 2007, 08:29:07 PM
Hey Rich:

Are your max380 generators made from discreets or are they part of a complete instrument package (make /model)? Just curious. Trying to find a good, cheap function genertor I don't have to pay an arm/leg for.

Thanks
chrisC

Chris, I found them on ebay, and called the number for the company on thier auction ad.

I got 3 for 90 bucks a piece plus shipping. I think it all came out to be 280 bucks.

I have to be clear. Although they are based off the max038, they don't go all the way up to 20mhz. Maximum is 2Mhz. I popped it open to see if I could adjust it somehow to allow the higher frequencies, but couldn't figure it out as the manual did not come with a schematic as devices like this sometiems do.

LDWebtronics is the seller, and their phone number is 1-800-370-2197
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 17, 2007, 09:39:02 PM
@ A few questions on the build.

1) Can anyone show a close-up picture of the mosfets with their connections, or draw a vulgarized diagram of the connections showing which terminals (left, center, right) go where, not in an electronic circuit form but of a visual form, just to make sure everyone is doing the same thing, including and especially me and others who may chose to make this replication. My components are the IRF730 and the IRF840.

2) My rings are made and I have been looking for days for a suitable plastic core to wind the CCs but have not found anything yet.(2 hours again today of running around) Does anyone have any practical ideas. Does anyone know the internal diameter of Otto coils. I want the internal diameter and length to be as close as Otto in order to ensure that the ring is located at the same internal position and the coil has the same depth of winding as I feel this will have a major impact on replicating the performance.

3) Can anyone show a vulgarized diagram of a complete set-up starting at the frequency generator, power supply, make, model and go through the complete circuits, etc. The replication of the frequencies and pulses are critical to replicate this design. Do we need the original equipment settings to replicate this or just supply the frequency (without regard to any amplitude, etc. is ok).

4) Ottos rings are connected directly together inside the rings, while Ronottes' last diagram shows the wires leading out of the rings to a terminal in order to do the connections which is obviously much more convenient for future alterations to the design. but the question is would these extended wires going to and comming from the terminal change the dynamic function of the rings.

You guys, I think someone will have to open some new Otto threads such as;
- Otto's TPU Testing results (one thread per builder/tester)
- Otto's TPU Testing summary (one person can keep track of all tests from all builders, here).
- Otto's TPU theories and comparatives
- Otto's TPU alternative mosfets, drivers and other electronic components
- Otto's TPU alternative overall designs

and keep this thread for building the device. There is getting to be too much other information here that is not directly relevent to building the replication, regardlles of how you personally feel about the device or the many changes we all could make on the design, this thread was supposed to deal with the building OF THIS DESIGN.

Please keep to topic on this thread and make any new thread you feel is required to discuss these other points. Look, this is not to say your discussions are not of interest, but for practical purposes, it would be preferable to discuss such things elsewhere. We all probably have over 100 pages of unposted theories and what we personally feel to be very pertinent observations of both SM's and others designs, including your own works, but this thread is for building and if everyone respects this and moves to newer threads, we could all breath a little better plus the information will be held in more retrievable and pertinent venues.

@cOmster

You may consider opening your own thread and put all your info there so it does not get lost in all these pages.
You could then add to it any other tesing data, you devellop, etc.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 17, 2007, 10:16:47 PM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 17, 2007, 10:54:42 PM
Nice vid Cam :)
Thanks

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 18, 2007, 12:46:45 AM
Thanks for the video Cam.

Nice piece of music at the end....what was it?

Sounded a bit like a requiem..sorry, couldn't resist.  :D

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 18, 2007, 12:53:54 AM
Wattsup, the inside diameter of the large ring should be such that the wire loop is 6" in diameter.

The OD of the small loop should be such that the diameter of the wire loop is 4".

The coils should be wound directly onto this form to achieve the wing shape as mentioned by otto and ronotte.

As far as the diagram goes, not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 18, 2007, 01:50:50 AM
@gn0stik

Thanks for your reply.

If the CC should be wound directly onto the ring, then we must consider that cOmster's replication is not per Otto spec and the distance (air gap) between his coil and ring could cause a decrease in transfer potential.

I guess that when we see Ottos CC's with the side flanges, we all assumed that the coil was wound on a core and slipped into place on the ring. This is a major difference. Geez could have saved me hours of grief in trying to find the right core with the right diameter.

So that answered one of my questions. Thanks.

In terms of the diagram, is it possible for someone to draw the mosfets with the three connections and show which one goes were. Not a circuit diagram but more of a pictorial.

@cOmster

Great video of your tests.

If we use the same frequencies as Otto, the TPU must be built exactly the same with the same coil and ring lengths, etc. Since no-one will be able to make the exact same replica, (although we will come very close), the frequency will have to change to reflect the resonance of the particular rings and coils.

Also, when using one frequency, it's easy enough. When you have the first frequency and introduce the second, you will probably have to readjust the first one also since the second introduced frequency changes the dynamics of the whole tpu. Again when two frequencies are found and you introduce a third frequency, you will have to play with the first two again because the third frequency will change the dynamics of the first and second. Once all three are adjusted to work on your particular TPU, you should see Ottos results.

This may be why your bulb decreased in intensity with the third frequency. You may have to work with the second and first again with all three working. Resonance is when all three frequencies work as one. Once you have found your resonance, this should be repeatable on your TPU, every time.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 18, 2007, 02:15:50 AM
Wattsup, I know there appears to be a spool there but if you look closely at ronotte's doc it becomes apparent that those are simply pieces of cardboard to aid in forming the edge of the coil, and it is, in fact, wound directly onto the ring and tube..

Lindsay pointed out that my coils were wrong yesterday, after I had wound them for the second time. Ack. Here's some quotes from their doc.

Quote
This setup is shown in the next picture for
the 6? ? 4? ECD. In the Fig. you will note: the 2 Mobius collector loops one inside
the other (glued to the side of a silicon hose used as support & shape), the
3 small transformers 120? apart, the heat sinks & Mosfets put near the loops,
the wing shaped solution for the coil support.

And...

Quote
This was the time when Otto did post on Overunity Forum the ?Wing approach design?
for the shape of the Control coil & and a practical approach for implementing & positioning
of the collector coil itself.

:)

So I don't know how much this will effect the operation, but in order to compare apples to apples we need to build as they did. So, here's a pic of my 6" ring. (no 4" shown) This is my third and final winding of my controls. (unless someone else finds something wrong with them.) If you think winding is a bitch, try unwinding a bifilar coil to rewind because you don't have enough wire to redo it from scratch. Yuk.

Like the purple tape? I thought it was a bit dull looking so I added a bit of color.

So Lindsay, hope this one's ok.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 18, 2007, 03:20:29 AM
Rich,
yes I think so..
 I have my collector 90 deg to yours as this was Ottos first method ..the doc stats either way..just so we know one difference here.
I am usung non conductive black fuel hose..another difference..

As long as we know differences they shoud be of assistance us..
Of course it is not very likley that 2 will be the same however we do it.

Lindsay
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 18, 2007, 04:34:53 AM
Rich,
yes I think so..
 I have my collector 90 deg to yours as this was Ottos first method ..the doc stats either way..just so we know one difference here.
I am usung non conductive black fuel hose..another difference..

As long as we know differences they shoud be of assistance us..
Of course it is not very likley that 2 will be the same however we do it.

Lindsay

How far have you gotten Lindsay? Have you noticed the effects otto has? Rotational field and all that with this setup?

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 18, 2007, 05:11:15 AM
Rich,

Im quite away from that..managed to blow 2 fets and 2 fet drivers...because of hv getting into my driver supply. Yes it came from the tpu...back from the thing..but no need to ghet excited...lots of hurdles yet ..I did not filter and protect it from the ecd..my fault..I will learn....got to wait for new drivers....got lots of fets.

The more the merrier here

For me it is not a spectator sport or a show  YET!

Lindsay
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 18, 2007, 10:45:07 AM
@c0mster .. have u tried flipping the rig(180 degrees) to see how that affects performance?

devilzangel
..
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: nutekk on June 18, 2007, 10:46:15 AM
does SM use tube oscillators  ???
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 10:59:08 AM
@c0mster .. have u tried flipping the rig(180 degrees) to see how that affects performance?

devilzangel
..

Hi Devilzangel,

Funny you should ask that, while assisting Cam in the lab, I told him to do that, and no, it didn't make a difference. Just to let all you guys know, we spent 6 hours in the lab on video/audio conference call yesterday.

I've uploaded his video here:- http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4997391137164968331

If you put the above link here:-http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php you can d/l the vid

Trust me we did the tests, awaiting what others will get.

Would like Otto's and Robertos comments on this video, but perhaps they are waiting for others to do more tests, or they themselves are doing what were doing to confirm.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Victor on June 18, 2007, 11:10:22 AM
does SM use tube oscillators  ???


Perhaps SM use miniature or subminiature tubes. (EÅŸti cumva din RO?)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 18, 2007, 11:14:47 AM
@mrd10 .. hey .. thanks for the reply on the comment .. interesting .. and thanks for the vid upload .. (if i may suggest, in the future, please use youtube .. it makes it easier for the users to download the vid  ;) )

it is odd that the rig is not showing classic symptoms of "SM"ness .. lol .. i have been looking at the old SM vids to get a better perspective on this thing .. but still nothing .. we should be seeing some of the things he shows in the open TPU vids  .. (those were his preliminary versions, if i am not mistaken).. (even if u dont know the frequencies, doing a freq sweep should show something) .. i am perplexed .. and confused ..

me back to looking at the vids ..

goodluck on your testing guys!!!  ;D :D ;)

devilzangel
..
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 18, 2007, 11:40:36 AM
@Dom & team,

VERY GOOD WORK I do know how you feel after many lab work!

In my personal opinion you have done just the first step: CONVERTING BEMF ONLY. This could help in proving that your setup is OK. THEN STOP  IT don't loose your time. It's not what you are looking for!  Searching more 'light' of this kind IS NOT THE POINT...for now.

NEXT STEP
You have to follow exactly what I wrote i.e. concentrate to search ONLY for 'the Seed' and then tune the lower freq to move 'the Seed' and convert at least your first RE peak into a piece of sinus. During that operation don't mind about current, voltages etc...they aren't important.

For myself, while working I have had some components failure...so I'd to stop and search for what happened.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 12:07:37 PM
@mrd10 .. hey .. thanks for the reply on the comment .. interesting .. and thanks for the vid upload .. (if i may suggest, in the future, please use youtube .. it makes it easier for the users to download the vid  ;) )

devilzangel
..

Hi Devilzangel,

I modified above post with the link you can use to d/l the video, it was great with google video, I have issues with youtube, but it does say you can use youtube in that link as well.

@Roberto,
so we should be looking for this seed, and put the mosfets near the ring right?
when looking at the scope, we saw what looked like the seed you are talking about, but this looks like an oscillation in the coil. Can you highlight here on this post what the seed looks like again, because in pdf theres no lines or arrows on the scope shots, so maybe were not looking at the correct thing. Again If you could post a pic with arrows on diagram, so we all know what to look for, that will help.

Just thinking and adding to this, do you have a video camera and can you record whats happening when we hit this seed? I'm trying to help everyone here to, because in the end we want to see what your seeing.
like what happens when we hit this seed? does the current draw drop and the output increases.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 01:11:45 PM
Ok Roberto, I looked at pdf again, page 36, I put some labels on the peaks, tell me this is correct?

Another thing to Roberto, try the same experiment with just battery, and see if you see the same thing happening, pictures video, or just video would be nice. If we can do video, it shouldn't be hard for you either.

Thank you,

Dominic

just adding to the response from next page, and my answer to the question above, that the scope shot and what's shown has been confirmed to be correct, please read Roberto's response on next page.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Rosphere on June 18, 2007, 01:23:35 PM
@Roberto,
Can you highlight here on this post what the seed looks like again, because in pdf theres no lines or arrows on the scope shots, so maybe were not looking at the correct thing. Again If you could post a pic with arrows on diagram, so we all know what to look for, that will help.

"Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post."

Roberto, Is this the seed?

Do seeds appear at the leading edge of sine waves only, or are they also scattered about as in Dom's image above mine?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: replicator on June 18, 2007, 01:24:50 PM
@Roberto
Please look at this link: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/spgen/index.htm
You can find several interesting thing at the bottom side of page, what is ghostly the same you can name "Seed" in your PDF. Is the two thing "Seed" and "Soliton wave" are identical? I know there is difference because Naudin uses ferrite rod, but I mean is the phenomenas identical? It could be help us if we know what we are looking for. Maybe a "Soliton wave" in Moebius loop?

@Dam
Just a tip: Could you measure the capacitance of Moebius loop and inductivity of CC secondary then tune into its calculated resonance's 3rd  subharmonic of your oscillator?

Regards,
Replicator
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 18, 2007, 01:32:21 PM
Hi Replicator,

I cannot see how this is the same as the Soliton Pulses are created by a wave movement of the domain walls inside the ferrite which occurs after the pulse has turned off.  There is no magnetic material for this to happen in the TPU.

However if one frequency is a harmonic, will we not find one mosfet on at one point while all the others are off and this will produce only a small signal/spike while the others are off and it will appear inbetween the large signals.  Can we say for sure from the info in the PDF that this signal is unexplainable and appears out of the blue inbetween signals applied to the TPU?


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
Ok I re read Robertos post, so this is what we are looking for people:-

The seed, then we move this seed into the spike, and we should get that pulse peak, or as Roberto mentions sinoudal wave, and this is the conversion process were looking for, (referring to my previous post pic on page 39).
Hmm I'll see if Cam is willing to do more tests to see if we can nab this in the butt, I don't think we have an issue here, as long as we know what to look for now, and observe what happens, I'll be speaking to Cam soon about this.



Ok Roberto has confirmed below that this is the close up of the seed.
Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 18, 2007, 01:48:21 PM
Hi all,

I apologize not having enough time ..... But YES WHAT POSTED IS THE SEED.

Look for that please.

Once you see it you are on the correct path...SEED is the key to open the 'DOOR'. nothing is more important...so don't give up searching until you see that event.

I don't know where it come from even if I already told you all I know about  in TPU=ECD doc. If you go to pg. 52 you will see exactly the Seed waveform for Al case!...it's a rather complex wave ...but I've already written about, please read it.

One thing is clear: if you don't put aluminum or other heatsink metals in the nearing of the ring ...THE SEED DOES NOT APPEAR'  (first pic is for Al heatsink, second pic were taken bolting MOSFET to a Mg block...please see the Signature differencies!)

@Replicator
no Soliton waves are a different thing.

Good luck to all

I'll help as I can

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 02:00:53 PM
Thanks Roberto, much appreciated.

Dominic     :D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 18, 2007, 02:05:33 PM
@Dom,

in your pic seed.gif the labelling you did is correct except what you written about the second peak: actually it is no more a peak but rather a partially converted peak by the Seed standing at his left side (on the base line)!!!

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 02:21:26 PM
Hi Roberto,

to save confusion, can you save that picture and modify it? I think I know what your saying, meaning that the seed that is just sitting on the larger sinoidal form is actually what it looks like when it hits spike.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 18, 2007, 02:35:29 PM
All,

I just got news back from ELV in Germany.

They don't have an English translation of their info, and they do not ship to north america.  :-\

I'll Keep searching.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 18, 2007, 02:53:17 PM
 @ Dom,

Here is a full labelled image for all. I hope it will be of help

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 18, 2007, 03:33:58 PM
In order to assist in defining what these "seeds" are, I've decided to simulate the circuit I posted.

If I can create these "seeds", I should be able to determine what they are, and what is causing them.

I will be striving only to re-create these waveforms, and will not be looking for or expecting overunity nor conversion processes nor anything of that nature. I also realize copper masses will not be accounted for here either.

I am asking anyone that has a control coil wound with the primary and secondary as per the document, and is able, please post your coil measurements.

- Primary and Secondary inductance and resistance.
OR
- coil length and diameter, and number of turns if possible, along with wire gauges.

It wouldn't hurt to compare everyone's coil specs anyway.

Thanks,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 18, 2007, 03:47:00 PM
If you keep cooking your mosfets try the IRF730 they seem to perform well for me.

I will do some more test later in the week to verify the seed.

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 04:43:25 PM
Folks it just occurered to me, that SM used to talk about Vacuum tubes right, well how do they function, they produce heat, same thing what Otto and Roberto have found out,
what if this is what cancels the magnetic flux and speeds up our electrons, same as what happens ina vacuum tube.
what about the imploding tv set, if the coil malfunctioned or there was heat involved, which set things in motion, wow.........................

refer to the heat magnet motor, you bring heat next to iron, with magnetic field near it like a magnet, and what happens, it looses it magnetism, so im thinking along those lines:-http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/magnets.html

Also we know that these things produced heat, so there's the other clue.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 18, 2007, 05:30:52 PM
@ Dom,

Here is a full labelled image for all. I hope it will be of help

Roberto

Thanks very much Roberto.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 18, 2007, 07:35:51 PM
In order to assist in defining what these "seeds" are, I've decided to simulate the circuit I posted.

If I can create these "seeds", I should be able to determine what they are, and what is causing them.

I will be striving only to re-create these waveforms, and will not be looking for or expecting overunity nor conversion processes nor anything of that nature. I also realize copper masses will not be accounted for here either.

I am asking anyone that has a control coil wound with the primary and secondary as per the document, and is able, please post your coil measurements.

- Primary and Secondary inductance and resistance.
OR
- coil length and diameter, and number of turns if possible, along with wire gauges.

It wouldn't hurt to compare everyone's coil specs anyway.

Thanks,
Darren

ZPE, I posted my control specs a little while back before Mannix told me that the spools were wrong, they are rewound now, but the gauges and primary length, as well as wire weight is all still the same.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 18, 2007, 07:57:01 PM
Thanks Rich...got those.

Inductance is the most important measurement I need however, and failing that, I can calculate approximate inductance from the coil dimensions I mentioned.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 18, 2007, 08:14:51 PM
Thanks Rich...got those.

Inductance is the most important measurement I need however, and failing that, I can calculate approximate inductance from the coil dimensions I mentioned.

Darren

When I get time I'll check the resistance and inductance of both coils. I gave resistence for both coils together, didn't think to do it separately.

Also, I've often though, "couldn't you have just counted turns when you wound?", And yet, I did not. Sorry about that, so no turn count. It's not too many though, we're not talking thousands, couple hundred on primary, max, little better than double that on the secondary.

Not that that helps.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 18, 2007, 08:56:59 PM
OK, I'd appreciate that, and it would be helpful for the project as a whole to see how close everyone is with their coils.

I may wind my own bifilar too (to your length and guage specs) for comparison and further analysis if need be.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 18, 2007, 09:19:05 PM
ya .. i was wondering the same .. it goes w/ what many of you have been saying ..

i mentioned this in the previous thread - http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2235.msg33932.html#msg33932  ;) :D

it could be the ion effect, superconduction . etc who knows ... BUT i am inclined to think that we are using a "brute force" approach to accessing this advanced energy .. if we extract this energy correctly, the device should actually be cool to the touch (again a guess).. .. many things could cancel the flux .. certain coil configs can do that too .. mobius, etc. I wonder how using crystals or fiber optics will play a role in advanced Free Energy extraction.

i am currently working on really looking at the SM vids frame by frame to see if i can make decent drawings of the devices .. they show some very good close ups of the 15" coil .. but i am also looking at the open frame TPU vids also to look at the coil configs and wiring ..

(something i found interesting .. if u look at the very OLD one, where he is in a workshop showing the small device flipping 180 degrees; if u look at the frame when he is flipping the device, u can see a metallic central vertical core. .. like a tesla coil)

ps .. i cant download the vid from the link or other vid downloaders .. it keeps erroring .. may be a prob on my end.

devilzangel
..

Folks it just occurered to me, that SM used to talk about Vacuum tubes right, well how do they function, they produce heat, same thing what Otto and Roberto have found out,
what if this is what cancels the magnetic flux and speeds up our electrons, same as what happens ina vacuum tube.
what about the imploding tv set, if the coil malfunctioned or there was heat involved, which set things in motion, wow.........................

refer to the heat magnet motor, you bring heat next to iron, with magnetic field near it like a magnet, and what happens, it looses it magnetism, so im thinking along those lines:-http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/magnets.html

Also we know that these things produced heat, so there's the other clue.

Kind Rgds,

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 18, 2007, 09:22:33 PM
Folks it just occurered to me, that SM used to talk about Vacuum tubes right, well how do they function, they produce heat, same thing what Otto and Roberto have found out,
what if this is what cancels the magnetic flux and speeds up our electrons, same as what happens ina vacuum tube.
what about the imploding tv set, if the coil malfunctioned or there was heat involved, which set things in motion, wow.........................

refer to the heat magnet motor, you bring heat next to iron, with magnetic field near it like a magnet, and what happens, it looses it magnetism, so im thinking along those lines:-http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/magnets.html

Also we know that these things produced heat, so there's the other clue.

Kind Rgds,

Dom

Dom hi,

You might have a good point there. It might be the very reason why SM was never able to solve the heat problem. I just wonder if this is the case why it already works at design maximum after a few seconds.....hardly time to heat up if it is that important.

Regards,

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 18, 2007, 09:26:00 PM
If you keep cooking your mosfets try the IRF730 they seem to perform well for me.

I will do some more test later in the week to verify the seed.

Cam

Hi Cam,

I asked Otto a few days ago about the IRF730 as it has a even faster rise time then the IRF840 (10 ns against 23 ns), but according to him the IRF730 doesn't work properly for this setup. Input capacitance had something to do with it he said.

regards,

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 18, 2007, 09:59:56 PM
I?m am not sure what Otto might be referring to. He may mean his resistors on the mosfet may not work on the 730?s. It?s the capacitance of the fet that holds the mosfet on and that needs to be bled to ground with a resistor also it is a good idea to put a resistor to ground on the input to the driver from the 555?s or function gennies, otherwise the mossfet may not switch proper. Perhaps this is what he is referring too.

I am going to build another bottom ring and wrap right over the pipe as Otto describes. Just to make sure. Also I picked up another proto board today so I can have the mosfets inside the TPU.

This reminds me of the Gunderson experiment I did, It did show a change in the output of the horz wire?s sine wave when I tilted it upside down.

I would like to find a faster switching mosfet if I get the chance, as you said the 730?s are a wee bit slower but when I compared the two types I found the 840?s blew easer and drew more amps and I seem to get the same effects from the 730?s.

Anyone do the math to insure their gauge of wires were weight equivalent? 

Heres a pic of Tesla's coil he used to write a name. 

Cam   
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 18, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 19, 2007, 12:15:59 AM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 19, 2007, 01:34:47 AM
As per the document
Secondary 10.5m of .35mm wire
Primary 4.2m of .5mm ? 1mm wire
Control coils must be mass equivalent:

.5mm= 24gauge = .00122lbs per ft
1mm= 18gauge = .00492lbs per ft

4.2 meters = 13.777 feet
10.5 meters = 34.44 feet

13.777 ft * .00122Lbs per ft <24 gauge>= .01586lbs

.35mm = 28gauge = .00048Lbs per ft

.01586/.00048 = 33.04167ft of 28gauge

The doc math closely matches using 24 gauge as primary and 28 gauge as secondary.

Cam


Thanks Cam, Had to recheck my wire gauges after that, because my weight is a lot higher. 12 grams per coil segment(primary and secondary), yours are equivalent to 7 grams per.

so, I have mine wrong, using the rat shack stuff. Shoulda checked ahead of time, as my coil lengths probably are not ideal with these gauges.

Turns out my gauges are 22 and 26, respectively.

Much heavier gauge on the primary, and slightly heavier on the secondary. So my coils are bigger. We'll see the effect.

got my drivers, Still haven't gotten my fets yet.

bad shipping luck.

However, got lotsa extras so I can burn as many as I want, when they come. As now roberto is testing a new fet which seems even better.

Better make my board with sockets for the fets.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 19, 2007, 02:45:51 AM
@cOmster

In the ECD-TPU document that comes from the "Read this first" thread by Stefan on page 25, these are the specs given.

Wire Primary: 0.65mm., 4.20 mt
Wire Secondary: 0.35mm, 16mt

Could you please avise on where your specs come from since I may be looking at the wrong doc.

I am just about to wind my CC so I really need to make sure. There is a major difference between the 18 gauge you have indicated and what was in the doc.

Last question... does anyone know how to connect a primary and secondary center tap when winding the CC so I can test sending the frequency into the primary center and maybe try to feed the ring from the secondary center back to the secondary end. Does the tap need isolation from its connection point to where it is comming out of the coil?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 19, 2007, 05:11:51 AM
OL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 19, 2007, 05:38:53 AM
Well tonight was fun...not! :)

Spent much time rewinding my control coils onto the 6" loop and off of the spools like I had them.  I am sure Rich can relate.  LOL

My partner spent a great deal of time soldering small little pins to the IRF7307 drivers.  They are near microscopic and VERY difficult to work with.  This is why several pages back Roberto approved a MIC for the driver that has pins and is easier to wire.

@ Stefan
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg35456.html#msg35456

at this post, reply #236 Roberto asked for the schematic of the MIC4426 driver to be placed in the FAQ.  I am sure you overlooked it, because it isn't there yet.  This driver will save hours off of the build time compared to the IRF 7307!  LOL  My partner would agree! :)  Thank you!

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 19, 2007, 06:33:35 AM
I was going to wind a coil, but I don't have the #24 wire, so I decided to try and calculate the inductances.

What I came up with:

Primary: 15.5uH, 0.36 Ohms, [165.32 inches of #24 wire], 90 turns

Secondary: 107.8uH, 2.28 Ohms, [413.28 inches of #28 wire], 248 turns

I used a coil length of 1", and a starting bobbin diameter of 0.5".

Hopefully a few people will add their specs for comparison.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 19, 2007, 07:33:11 AM
   Here is the driver file. Covers the 26 and 27. I was looking for this one and Norvac Elec. here has no listing for it. Go figure.

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 07:57:02 AM
Hello All,

I'm finally back from my weekend trip and thought I would take the time to draw up the the circuit diagram for my control circuit.

It uses the mic4427 MOSFET drivers for the IRF840 MOSFETs. For those of you wondering where to order them, they can be purchased inexpensively from this website here:

http://www.arrow.com/

Search for mic4427BN. That is the correct chip.

I am currently modifying my control circuit to output extremely small duty cycle square waves (500 ns pulse width) to conserve input power. My firm view is that we only want to put in enough current to load the coil inductance and no more. Any extra input will simply be wasted. The attached circuit diagram does not include the ICs I will be using for the pulse width control but I will be using the 74HC423N chip. It is a Dual retriggerable monostable multivibrator which, using a resistor and capacitor allows you to vary the output pulse width from a minimum of 75ns and up. The mic4427NB drivers need a minimum 500ns pulse width to turn on and off properly.

As soon as I have finished the modifications to the control circuit, I will post an updated circuit diagram.

The board I have currently runs on a single 9V battery and the input frequencies are controlled by three separate battery-powered function generators, which I bought from here:

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/meas/fg500k.htm

They have a range of 1Hz to 1MHz. Above, 500k, the square wave output really breaks down but since the FET drivers are comparator driven, it won't affect the switching of the MOSFETs.

That should be all you need to make this circuit. If you want to use 555 timers, make sure that you put some capacitors in parallel with the power supply inputs to the timer chips because the FET drivers draw a lot of power when they are running. If you have any problems, PM me and I'll see what I can do to help you.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 19, 2007, 08:44:41 AM
Jason:

Thank you for the heads-up on finding these fairly inexpensive battery operated function generators specifically to drive the three phase oscillators. I sure am looking forward to your good work on verification of the usefulness of these function generators. Only thing is, like you say it's only good for 500k hz? Maybe a problem if we needed higher harmonics.

Please let us know your progress. If they work well, I will be getting 3 myself too!

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 09:02:14 AM
Hi Chris,

I already own three of these function generators and used one of them for the original demonstrations that I did (I blew the IC in the other two from some earlier, unrelated, experiments).

They will drive the MOSFET drivers up to 1MHz with no problem at all. And the other good thing is that they are controlled by a single monolithic function generator IC so if something ever goes wrong and you blow one up, it's very easy to pop the chip out of the IC socket and get another one for it (they run about $8 for replacement chips). This is definitely cheaper than replacing a $200+ generator if you spike it out. I definitely recommend these to everyone as an easy alternative to the fussy 555 chips.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 19, 2007, 09:06:24 AM
Jason:

Thanks again. can you vary the duty cycle on these?

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 19, 2007, 10:03:50 AM
Hello all,

sorry I was a few days off line.

I saw the last video. A few comments:

1. there are 2 frequencies used and everything was OK. Then the 3. frequency added and nothing was OK!!!

When you use 3 frequencies, when you see that the 3rd frequency "disturbs" the other 2 frequencies then you MUST surch for better frequencies. The first 2 frequencies are NOT GOOD. You have to find a better frequency mix for your first 2 frequencies and then add the 3rd.

When all 3 frequencies are OK then you can swith off 1 frequency and the bulb shines NOT so bright as with all 3 of them. Then swith off 2 frequencies and the bulb is maybe only glowing.

In this case you know that all your 3 frequencies adds a littl power to the bulb. This is then the frequency mix you need.

This is then what I call a harmonic work off all 3 frequencies.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 19, 2007, 11:39:48 AM

ps .. i cant download the vid from the link or other vid downloaders .. it keeps erroring .. may be a prob on my end.

devilzangel
..



No devilzangel, your correct, theres an issue with google videos, I just tried another d/ler as well.
That d/l link used to work, somethings changed.:- http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php

I just sent google video an email, telling them of the problem with there videos, hopefully will get an answer, will let you guys know.

@Otto, appreciate your guidance, thank you.

Dom
Title: Jason's Control_Circuit_v1.0.GIF has big error
Post by: Earl on June 19, 2007, 12:13:11 PM
Jason,

your FET driver circuit has a big error.  The manufacturer's spec sheet shows a test circuit which they use to determine the switching speeds.   They simulate the large FET input capacity by using a 1nF on the driver output.

In the real world, when you use this FET driver, you must remove this 1nF capacitor; the FET gate already has 1nF or 2nF capacity and you don't want to have an additional capacitance in the form of a 1nF capacitor!

As additional comments,
the 4uF7 capacitor should be labeled tantal
the 0uF1 capacitor should be marked ceramic
it should be mentioned that additional parallel ceramic capacitors never hurt.  For example, additional 1nf and 10nF bypass capacitors.

Pay a lot of attention to the polarity of the tantal capacitor, if wrong polarity the tantal will catch fire and turn into a block of carbon.  Quite a spectacle.

Regards, Earl
Hello All,

I'm finally back from my weekend trip and thought I would take the time to draw up the the circuit diagram for my control circuit.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 19, 2007, 02:30:22 PM
Hello all,

sorry I was a few days off line.

I saw the last video. A few comments:

1. there are 2 frequencies used and everything was OK. Then the 3. frequency added and nothing was OK!!!

When you use 3 frequencies, when you see that the 3rd frequency "disturbs" the other 2 frequencies then you MUST surch for better frequencies. The first 2 frequencies are NOT GOOD. You have to find a better frequency mix for your first 2 frequencies and then add the 3rd.

When all 3 frequencies are OK then you can swith off 1 frequency and the bulb shines NOT so bright as with all 3 of them. Then swith off 2 frequencies and the bulb is maybe only glowing.

In this case you know that all your 3 frequencies adds a littl power to the bulb. This is then the frequency mix you need.

This is then what I call a harmonic work off all 3 frequencies.

Otto

This is what I was thinking as well Otto...I agree. It does seem odd that the 3 frequencies would diminish the output, if adjusted properly.

Do you agree that the 3 frequencies should be harmonically related, and that the frequencies are fundamental, 1st harmonic, 2nd harmonic?

If so, I don't understand why no one is using the harmonic divider I designed, and then one only has to input one frequency. This will allow you to just sweep slowly from your chosen starting frequency, then adjust upwards for peak output power? 
???

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gyulasun on June 19, 2007, 02:44:43 PM
Hi Darren,

Sorry for chiming in,  the answer to your question is that you has to be always a little bit offtuned from the exact frequencies because the device may run away. (This was mentioned in one of Mannix earlier SM quotes.) 

So if the harmonic relationship holds and you start out from one single frequency and multiply them, the result harmonics will be right on spot when you hit the correct single frequency and this way you cannot make one or the other harmonic a bit offtuned, they will be right on spot too, creating the runaway situation.

Maybe your otherwise logical suggestion could still be used if the 12V power supply is greatly reduced or / and current limited / fused during the search for the right single frequency...

Gyula
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 19, 2007, 02:53:35 PM
@Jason,

Earl is correct: remove the 1 nF condenser on Mosfet's Gate! It will only decrease the pulse rise-time in our case!   If I were you I'll remove the resistor either as it does not need except perhaps for safety rule.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 19, 2007, 03:03:41 PM
Gyula,

Indeed, using a lower supply voltage to start is an excellent suggestion, if one is really afraid of a "runaway" situation.

However, all 3 synchronized frequencies slightly off-tuned from the "big one" should also lower the output power.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 19, 2007, 03:08:47 PM
@ZPE,

If it may be of help to know  I'm currently almost finished the designing a Sync/Async triple oscillator programmable  (:3 - :9999)  just with DIP switches. The rationale is to use the Async mode to discover the 3 sweet freq and then switch to sync mode...with attention as I've already seen much more output when synched.  I'll post soon the complete design.

The unit is divided into 3 Subassembly:

1 - Assembly has a single little board containing the Master Oscillator (Xtal) and the 3 LSI CD4059 prog counter in serial connection. DIP Switches provide for: BCD freq progr., Mode progr, Load of setting, Asyn/Synch operation.

2 - Assembly are actually 3 very small board just to accomodate each the Mosfet driver and power Mosfet and his heathsink. The little board is designed to be set near the external Mobius ring.

3 - Assembly does contain only the 2 Mobius ring.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 19, 2007, 03:48:50 PM
Hello all,

@Darren,

I totally agree with you. The point is, there are a lot of new people....not in electronics...

With 3 synchronised frequencies its muuuuch better and easier to work but if you have such a success as I had then there is no equipment anymore.
I wanted that the people first learn how to mix, whats going on with the current and voltage from the power supply and then synchronise the frequencies.

@Roberto

be careful.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Peterae on June 19, 2007, 04:34:59 PM
Another chip that may be of use is a binary rate mulitplier or BRM, 7497 or cd4089 although ive not gone that way yet myself so have no design.

Peter
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 19, 2007, 04:43:44 PM
I was going to wind a coil, but I don't have the #24 wire, so I decided to try and calculate the inductances.

What I came up with:

Primary: 15.5uH, 0.36 Ohms, [165.32 inches of #24 wire], 90 turns

Secondary: 107.8uH, 2.28 Ohms, [413.28 inches of #28 wire], 248 turns

I used a coil length of 1", and a starting bobbin diameter of 0.5".

Hopefully a few people will add their specs for comparison.

Regards,
Darren

Hi Darren, I will soon, my chips came in so I'm a bit distracted at the moment. I don't have the electronics experience some of these guys have so it's a little more challenging for me in the build stage, so when I get a chance I'll run the numbers for inductance.


Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 19, 2007, 04:51:54 PM
Hello All,

I'm finally back from my weekend trip and thought I would take the time to draw up the the circuit diagram for my control circuit.

It uses the mic4427 MOSFET drivers for the IRF840 MOSFETs. For those of you wondering where to order them, they can be purchased inexpensively from this website here:

http://www.arrow.com/

Search for mic4427BN. That is the correct chip.

I am currently modifying my control circuit to output extremely small duty cycle square waves (500 ns pulse width) to conserve input power. My firm view is that we only want to put in enough current to load the coil inductance and no more. Any extra input will simply be wasted. The attached circuit diagram does not include the ICs I will be using for the pulse width control but I will be using the 74HC423N chip. It is a Dual retriggerable monostable multivibrator which, using a resistor and capacitor allows you to vary the output pulse width from a minimum of 75ns and up. The mic4427NB drivers need a minimum 500ns pulse width to turn on and off properly.

As soon as I have finished the modifications to the control circuit, I will post an updated circuit diagram.

The board I have currently runs on a single 9V battery and the input frequencies are controlled by three separate battery-powered function generators, which I bought from here:

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/meas/fg500k.htm

They have a range of 1Hz to 1MHz. Above, 500k, the square wave output really breaks down but since the FET drivers are comparator driven, it won't affect the switching of the MOSFETs.

That should be all you need to make this circuit. If you want to use 555 timers, make sure that you put some capacitors in parallel with the power supply inputs to the timer chips because the FET drivers draw a lot of power when they are running. If you have any problems, PM me and I'll see what I can do to help you.

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks Jason, I'll get on it tonight. Hope I have the caps and resisters, prolly have to get a couple rat shack grab bags of resisters, I think I have the caps.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 19, 2007, 05:26:32 PM
Please use a cap and diode on your supply.


Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 19, 2007, 05:39:02 PM
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Merkhava on June 19, 2007, 05:40:22 PM
Hi All,

Some ideas to throw out...

Maybe we can use music as a guide.... just as three nicely toned voices make for a great sounding trio.

Think of musical chords on a piano or guitar. Consider the audio frequencies of three notes that sound beautiful together. Then multiply those three audio frequencies by higher and higher octaves as test frequencies for triggering a Radiant Energy device.

Perhaps we can use our sensory perceptions of harmonious beauty and efficiencies in the "slow realms" to extrapolate relationships and harmonies in the "faster realms".

Just a thought....

Robby
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: replicator on June 19, 2007, 06:05:46 PM
If you interested in, here is a good page to create really simple and good PWM generator:

http://www.cpemma.co.uk/pwm_erg.html

You can find elements which is responsible for freq and PWM.

" ... frequency = R2 / (4 x R3 x R1 x C1) ..."

Todo: eliminate 2N2222 and motor driver then put 74HCT14 Schmitt-trigger (with 6ns raise time) to the output of final OpAMP. Then connect to Mostfet's driver the 74HCT's output. Note: 74HCTxx require 5Volts ,so we need additional 5V stabalizer block.)

Regards,
Replicator
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 08:51:44 PM
Jason:

Thanks again. can you vary the duty cycle on these?

chrisC

Hi Chris,

No, you can't vary the duty cycle. They are set at 50%. That is why I am implementing the multivibrator ICs so that I will have complete control over that. All you need is a cap and a pot on the board to change it. For this particular setup, we want to make the pulse width as as small as possible since we only need the rising and falling edges of the spile for the 'kick' effect. Once the electron current starts moving, the RE is gone and the rest is wasted energy input. The only case where this would be a good thing is if we intentionally want to load the coil's magnetic field. Then in this case, we would make the pulse width only wide enough to completely saturate the coil and then we get a nice BEMF spile on the shut off which would be at a much higher voltage than the input spike (depending on the coil inductance). We can also implement the BEMF capture techniques also but I'm saving that for later. One step at a time.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Jason's Control_Circuit_v1.0.GIF has big error
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 08:58:40 PM
Jason,

your FET driver circuit has a big error.  The manufacturer's spec sheet shows a test circuit which they use to determine the switching speeds.   They simulate the large FET input capacity by using a 1nF on the driver output.

In the real world, when you use this FET driver, you must remove this 1nF capacitor; the FET gate already has 1nF or 2nF capacity and you don't want to have an additional capacitance in the form of a 1nF capacitor!

As additional comments,
the 4uF7 capacitor should be labeled tantal
the 0uF1 capacitor should be marked ceramic
it should be mentioned that additional parallel ceramic capacitors never hurt.  For example, additional 1nf and 10nF bypass capacitors.

Pay a lot of attention to the polarity of the tantal capacitor, if wrong polarity the tantal will catch fire and turn into a block of carbon.  Quite a spectacle.

Regards, Earl
Hello All,

I'm finally back from my weekend trip and thought I would take the time to draw up the the circuit diagram for my control circuit.

Hi Earl,

Thanks for the heads up about the 1 nF caps on the driver outputs. This is exciting news since the drivers have been working extremely well (achieving 38ns switch-on times), so it should be VERY good without them! I was experiencing some problems at one point where the FETs were not turning off all the way (when loaded) which may have been due to the cap sitting there charged up. I'll also add the labels for the cap types to the circuit diagram. I am currently using small electrolytic caps for the 4.7 uF filter caps so I'll see about getting some tantalum ones to replace them.

Again, thank you for your suggestions :).

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 09:00:29 PM
@Jason,

Earl is correct: remove the 1 nF condenser on Mosfet's Gate! It will only decrease the pulse rise-time in our case!   If I were you I'll remove the resistor either as it does not need except perhaps for safety rule.

Roberto

Hi Roberto,

I'll definitely do that. I only had the resistor on between the gate and the drain because the FETs were staying stuck on sometimes after I turned off the circuit board. I realized that I do need the resistors on the input lines to the MOSFET drivers though because the function generators I am driving them with don't go to zero immediately after cutting them off though.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 19, 2007, 09:04:27 PM
Hello all,

@Darren,

I totally agree with you. The point is, there are a lot of new people....not in electronics...

With 3 synchronised frequencies its muuuuch better and easier to work but if you have such a success as I had then there is no equipment anymore.
I wanted that the people first learn how to mix, whats going on with the current and voltage from the power supply and then synchronise the frequencies.

@Roberto

be careful.

Otto

Hi Otto,

I'm already headed down the harmonic road as well. I have a bunch of 12-bit ripple counter ICs that I am using to make a 12-harmonic frequency divider board. The board is already made but it has some glitches that still need to be worked out before I can use it. (I originally made it to test out Roberto's original TPU setup with the two harmonics locked in). For anyone else interested, the IC is a 74HC4040 and would be a cheap and easy way to make this. My board has three 12-pin dip switches that route any of the 12 harmonics to the three outputs to drive the MOSFETs. I'm not home at the moment, but I'll post a photo of it later.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 19, 2007, 09:36:02 PM
I have to post this again.
The Otto - Robero pdf 1.0 states on page 14 under the heading Summarizing:
CC structure width: about 1".

But I see some builds here are 1/2" tubing.

Needs to be clarified.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: joe dirt on June 19, 2007, 09:39:13 PM
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html

thanks for the link, reminds me of a plasma speaker,  on steroids lol

http://www.plasmatweeter.de/

Dirt
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 19, 2007, 10:10:41 PM
I was going to wind a coil, but I don't have the #24 wire, so I decided to try and calculate the inductances.

What I came up with:

Primary: 15.5uH, 0.36 Ohms, [165.32 inches of #24 wire], 90 turns

Secondary: 107.8uH, 2.28 Ohms, [413.28 inches of #28 wire], 248 turns

I used a coil length of 1", and a starting bobbin diameter of 0.5".

Hopefully a few people will add their specs for comparison.

Regards,
Darren

248/90=2,75
2,75x12=33
33x3=99  ::)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MrMag on June 19, 2007, 10:28:43 PM
GK,

CC - Control Coils - 1" width

Tubing for collector = 1/2"


Tim
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 19, 2007, 10:31:13 PM
GK,

CC - Control Coils - 1" width

Tubing for collector = 1/2"


Tim

Geez! Thanks. I must have put my brain on backwards today.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 20, 2007, 12:30:57 AM
@Roberto,
The divide by "n" device CD4059A you have mentioned is an excellent idea, BUT I think you need to still need to feed it with a function generator to get desired master frequency to start the divide by.
Feeding it with a xtal oscillator will limit the number of output frequencies.
I plan to do the same thing and this device is just what I have been looking for.

@Jason,
Although your function generator boxes do not support duty cycle control, you can however simply have an op-amp connected to the triangle wave output.
You adjust the -ve bias using a trimmer on the op-amp to determine at what point the op-amp turns on and off. Then using the amplitude control on the function generator you can set the duty cycle.
Simple.
I still have to test this with my DDS 20 function generator, except I have to use the sine wave output as the feed to the +ve bias of the op amp, not quite as good as using a triangle wave output, but it will do.

Not sure about the ripple counter idea, I think you would be better with what Roberto has suggested with 3 X CD4059A.

I think this is the way everyone should head towards, as this guarantees a synchronised signal in all 3 control coils.


@All
I have ordered up two more DDS 20's in kit form this time, so its going to be callenging soldering up the surface mount AD9835 chip with 0.5mm pin spacing.

I was thinking what WaveWatcher was saying about the clues in the post from SM, maybe it was SM himself???
I was trying to figure out the tie-up between 35.705KHz harmonic and 245KHz output.
So what combination will fit them together exactly?
Maybe 245KHz was a ballpark figure so as not to give the farm away?
 
If you have:
249.935KHz / 7 = 35.705KHz
249.935KHz / 5 = 49.987KHz
249.935KHz / 4 = 62.48375KHz

These would all be in perfect sync if you use 3 x divide by n devices all fed from a common function generator.

Also, there has been no mention of a tuning capacitor so the coils can be tuned to their harmonic frequencies.

Regards
Rob
 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 20, 2007, 01:38:43 AM
I was thinking what WaveWatcher was saying about the clues in the post from SM, maybe it was SM himself???
I was trying to figure out the tie-up between 35.705KHz harmonic and 245KHz output.
So what combination will fit them together exactly?
Maybe 245KHz was a ballpark figure so as not to give the farm away?
 
If you have:
249.935KHz / 7 = 35.705KHz
249.935KHz / 5 = 49.987KHz
249.935KHz / 4 = 62.48375KHz

These would all be in perfect sync if you use 3 x divide by n devices all fed from a common function generator.

Also, there has been no mention of a tuning capacitor so the coils can be tuned to their harmonic frequencies.

Regards
Rob
 

@ Rob
Now that is the kind of thinking that is going to move us to the next power level!!  :)
We will find one day soon, that those frequencies fit in some how.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 20, 2007, 02:29:28 AM
Sorry no input lately. Have my earlier project knocking my socks off right now. Research the effects from it I am finding direct relationships to SM stuff. Please take a gander at my attachments. Not supposed to be online right now.
I am convinced the amp goes in the middle because of time dilation and the coil is Mobius in a coaxial or waveguide construction. 180 degree seems to refer to phase angle not position or quantity of coils. The signal source is earth's core. The SM coil and my contraption are simply Farady pickup coils.
Loop antennas provide multiple gains at higher than designed resonance at almost random points of the spectrum. I am convinced his coils were flat tubing, waveguides or coaxial and Mobius.

Am I sounding weird? You would be too.

More later.

I am convinced THIS IS NO FAKE. Since mine knocked me flat last night - after it was disconnected I don't think mine is either (no caps no controller!). Maybe I've just gone nuts. I'll sleep on it.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 20, 2007, 02:32:23 AM
forgot this one - and there are plenty others out there. Most done after SM work.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: IronHead on June 20, 2007, 03:27:48 AM
Congratulations you are still alive WaveWatcher and you might be crazy but you are not wrong.


IronHead
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 20, 2007, 03:32:46 AM
Sorry no input lately. Have my earlier project knocking my socks off right now. Research the effects from it I am finding direct relationships to SM stuff. Please take a gander at my attachments. Not supposed to be online right now.
I am convinced the amp goes in the middle because of time dilation and the coil is Mobius in a coaxial or waveguide construction. 180 degree seems to refer to phase angle not position or quantity of coils. The signal source is earth's core. The SM coil and my contraption are simply Farady pickup coils.
Loop antennas provide multiple gains at higher than designed resonance at almost random points of the spectrum. I am convinced his coils were flat tubing, waveguides or coaxial and Mobius.

Am I sounding weird? You would be too.

More later.

I am convinced THIS IS NO FAKE. Since mine knocked me flat last night - after it was disconnected I don't think mine is either (no caps no controller!). Maybe I've just gone nuts. I'll sleep on it.


Your ??? knocked you flat last night?  A TPU of your own design?  Otto's replication?  How did it "Knock you flat"?

You mentioned "time dilation".  How would you know that?  I mentioned that in my thread some time ago, but figured everyone thought I was crazy.  Why do you think this is so?  How did you wind your  coil and with what wire? 

Sorry for so many questions, but we on this forum are all very tired of riddles.  :)  So details would be wonderful!  (I am sure you understand!) 

Hmm... I think SM's device has interaction with 7.23 HZ, but I do not believe it is an Antenna in the clearest sense of the word.  It is similar to what Otto is doing.  But I do believe there is more to it.

Warm regards,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 20, 2007, 03:48:00 AM
ok guys ..

ATTACHED is a PNG file that has SCREENSHOTS of the 15" TPU, the preliminary TPU, and the open black TPU from SM's Videos.

link to post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2285.msg36145.html#msg36145

The Image file is 3.79MB in size. I tried to keep it as high quality as possible + PNG format

one thing i find important to note is that i see FOUR coils in the open black TPU .. 2 thick wire windings, and 2 fine wire windings. (they might ALL be the same thickness, though hard to tell).. i have added notes in the images as well.

EDIT: ANOTHER point as WAVEWATCHER says .. the WIRES are FLAT and horizontal parallel in the 15" crosssection cutout.


.
devilzangel
..
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 20, 2007, 04:56:44 AM
@ WaveWatcher
I have read through both of your downloads.  Very impressive information.  Now I see how you came to the time dilation theory.  General relativistic electromagnetic effects explains it fairly well.

The other download CERTAINLY makes the case for Alternating current being used in the control coils rather than Direct Current.  I too have said this for some time now, and I am convinced that this is what SM did.  But your download give the scientific reason "why" I do believe.

As far as winding the collectors as an antenna, I and my researchers had thought of that but then had set that idea aside.  So, in your theory of operation, we have collectors with mobius, wound as an antenna, tuned to resonate.  Alternating Current for the input to control coils, and then the frequencies to bring resonance = electrical power output.  And "tuning" the Alternating Current to the core (7.23 Hz) would be best.  Is this your thoughts?  (It sure sounds alot like mine! LOL)

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 20, 2007, 05:02:36 AM
ok guys ..

ATTACHED is a PNG file that has SCREENSHOTS of the 15" TPU, the preliminary TPU, and the open black TPU from SM's Videos.

link to post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2285.msg36145.html#msg36145

The Image file is 3.79MB in size. I tried to keep it as high quality as possible + PNG format

one thing i find important to note is that i see FOUR coils in the open black TPU .. 2 thick wire windings, and 2 fine wire windings. (they might ALL be the same thickness, though hard to tell).. i have added notes in the images as well.

EDIT: ANOTHER point as WAVEWATCHER says .. the WIRES are FLAT and horizontal parallel in the 15" crosssection cutout.

I have also uploaded the same image file to ImageShack (i dont know what the fetch limit is on imageshack, so this link might stop showing after some of u DL from there)
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8863/smvideosscreenshotsaz9.th.png) (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smvideosscreenshotsaz9.png)
..
.
devilzangel
..

Contact Stefan and post this on OU for download. Or give us a work around for image shack. We shouldnt downloading a toolbar buddy/loader.

Thank you. giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on June 20, 2007, 05:21:33 AM
@ WaveWatcher - Very Interesting , this is inline with my copper tube and coaix bradeing. I know this is ottos thread so i"ll post in your thread, tomarrow, it's late I'm tired . Mike  and thanks you for the post
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 20, 2007, 05:29:17 AM
Ok. I?ll take a break for some background. Yes, I can be full of it but I am an experimenter in many things, especially if the ?Laws? say it can?t be done.
No, I?m not SM. I?m a longtime HAM, currently an EE and formerly titled ?wave propagation specialist? and  ?data analyst? when I was doing SIGINT for Big Daddy DIRNSA. (In GOD we trust, all others we monitor!). I worked in some of the same stations as Ed Dames (now there is a nut! Spoon benders?)
I wiped out AM reception for two blocks when I was 10. And I had an NSA ARPA handle before any of you heard of what became the Internet.

Enough.

For months I have been working on the magnetic equivalent of what is commonly known as a pilot valve. A simple device to use a very weak force to control a much stronger force. Like you can use a few inches of vacuum to control thousands of pounds of pressure. Allen Bradley uses an electromagnetic equivalent in many of their air circuit breakers. It is two plain solenoid coils at opposite ends of a cylinder. You energize one and the plunger is pulled to the coil ? and the reverse ? after removing power from the other coil. In the middle is a bearing for the plunger that is actually made of PMs with North all facing center. When the plunger is at either end it completes and maintains the magnetic circuit. The circuit complete the attraction locks the plunger in-place (against 10s of pounds of reverse force!) The coil on that end has no power. Apply power to the opposite coil and it sucks the plunger to it completing that magnetic circuit and breaking the other. All with a DC signal and only a few milliamps and simply by ?redirecting the magnetic flux away from the previous completed flux circuit.

I think ? why can?t I do that and use the resultant electrical energy instead of moving a plunger? Forget OU. I just want to see if I can do it. One thing ran into another and I tied the pulse from one coil to another with some LC (no, not big enough mFd to hold a shock) to phase it so it is useful and next thing I know I have two small hacked RS transformers with PM inserted linked as one howling, audibly,  about 300hZ with no signal applied.

Yes, I know how it is with wannabe?s and skeptics (and wives too!). I feel your pain. But continue ? be thorough ? use scientific rigor ? try to understand what is going on ? do research ? BE SAFE! It was my research that led me to you. I?m an opensource kinda guy also. But it will work every time and be useful before I put someone else through this hell.
I want to be helpful but one thing at a time. What I do believe is this:

Earth?s core frequency has dropped a bit since SM.
It isn?t possible for most of us to build a resonant loop at the base freq. Hence the pickup coil ? just what is needed when trying to collect energy from a signal generator operating at much lower frequency that the resonant freq of the pick-up loop.
The frequency ratios are most likely 1-4-7 (as in mine) or multiples of those numbers.
You have to find 7 first and look for a 1 and 4 that ?series aid? when they sync.
Your frequencies will vary between projects AND physical association with magnetic and non-magnetic mass near the coils.
The whole thing is probably a never ending Mobius electron-gun.
Rotating around the ring each pulse ?squeezes the water hose? at just the right time to accelerate the paired electrons to the next ?squeeze point?. The ?squeeze? must happen just behind the electron pair and not on top of it (boom).
Magnets are to a massive flux field as a lens is to light.

The SM coils appear real. Yes mine is unique but much of the same work must be done by the experimenter and the device to get the results.

Things have probably changed since I worked for ?The Company?, they didn?t give a hoot what folks did ? but all of it was recorded and filed for future reference. Until I?m sure I?m not nuts, can document, calculate, explain, reproduce and broadcast the final details through multiple channels, I?m not posting enough detail to be discredited by folks that use math that can?t prove itself and think any line exists beyond an arc.
My device exhibits many of the SM reported properties as the SM coil and the tests performed on my earlier attached docs, even after the A.C. is removed.

Some say there are two kinds of people ? Those who understand thermodynamics and those who do not. I agree.

Until I can give you enough documented detail to replicate my results I?ll post only when I really believe my information is useful ? as I?m sure you all would wish ? as I would wish.

I apologize for my exuberance before.
   
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 20, 2007, 05:36:21 AM
If I am understang the SM device correctly - DC pulses would be correct as you must temporarily dislodge/expand the Earth's flux to create movement of that flux. The collapse of your flux, along with the Earth's, when your signal goes zer0, is probably what is squeezing the water hose.

Movement of the earth's field would be a good thing for this coil.
Stick with the info you've learned from SM and the other's here. Don't change direct abrubtly as my device is a different animal.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 20, 2007, 05:58:23 AM
@ WaveWatcher

I am very glad to have you on our board.  I think that you have much to bring to our TPU table.  I do agree about not changing direction.  BUT  ;) with that said, there are always avenues of experimentation that can be easily done, especially by some of our more skilled members.  So, I would suggest, as time progress's any future ideas for experimentation with our ECD be posted, and someone, I am sure, will oblige. 

The AC will be important when the time comes.  the "1-4-7" explains alot, and someone hit on it earlier.

Working backwards:  (sound familiar? :) )
7 - 249.93 KHz
4 - 142.82 KHz
1 - 35.705 KHz


I have more thoughts but for another day.  But this we can experiment with now!! :)

Thank you for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on June 20, 2007, 06:00:52 AM
WaveWatcher Thats to funny. I'm working on 2 coils face to face with a small magnet in the center and one at each end of the coils NS (Bismuth) < SN (Center Neo) > NS (Bismuth), when the coils energize the oscillation starts - vary the current the oscillation changes as fro the feed back circuit or how you may want to incorporate it in the system. Mike
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on June 20, 2007, 06:03:30 AM
Tesla found that the charged particles that collected in his single-wire globe would rotate clockwise due to the Earth's mazgnetic field - this implies a magnetic field that is perpendicular to the earth - not north-south.  

Notice CW is in the northern hemisphere - like SM's ring.  I guess that Marinov's MAGVID also rotates this way.  Perhaps it rotates faster one way than the other - one would increase the other subtract - again Russell is correct.

This is in-line with the true depiction of the earth's magnetic field in which the vortices that are known as the "lines of force" are perpendicular to the surface and the earth is not a single magnet, but two - Walter Russell also showed this fact - how very cleverly the universe is constructed...as it must be.  

Would you not create a current if you created a rotating magnetic field in the presence of a conductor? - CW in northern hemisphere - CCW in southern.  Notice how the forced rotating magnetic field "rolls" as it rotates - with the same loops as drift current.

The toroidal overwrap that SM used on later versions, what could be it's significance? Perhaps it does not radiate, or would it not receive?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 20, 2007, 06:12:47 AM
2 Tests tonight....
Can my triple step-up coil (Tesla Style) newman motor light a bulb on one coil?

Can the magnet bar be made to move with the addition of dc in one other coil. (as per doc posted earlier)?

Results , Yes and Yes, when 9V was applied to the upper coil the magnetic field disappeared in the device and the bar rotated freely by hand. There was no change in the output of the light.

Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 20, 2007, 06:25:55 AM
For anyone that might be interested, I've reduced Otto's and Roberto's circuit down to a more simple representation.

You'll notice that the input is analogous to an OR gate, but in the real circuit (the previous one I posted) battery current draw increases as more HI's are present on the inputs at the same time.

I've been trying to understand why Cam's experiment showed a significant decrease in output power when the 3rd frequency was introduced. I believe the reason might be because the frequencies are not synchronized.

Random switching will only cause the spikes to coincide occassionally, and when they are not "in sync", the primaries could be "ON" for a significant portion of the time (wasting power), and yet the benefit of this ON time is not reflected in the output.

I highly recommend that all build a harmonic divider (i.e. fundamental, 2nd and 3rd harmonics) and use that to feed your FETs.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: weri812 on June 20, 2007, 06:50:17 AM
TO ALL

HERE ARE THE PICTURES IN PDF FORM

WER
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 20, 2007, 07:45:43 AM
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 20, 2007, 08:15:02 AM
Suggestion:

The 7 freq should be the resonant freq of the small coil. This one would be more broadbanded and also work at the freq of the larger coil.
The 4 freq should be the resonant freq of the larger coil. This one would be most critical with high Q requirement. I could understand if this one needed to be tuned.
The 1 freq would be a harmonic of our biggest common generator (Earth).
Using other than air core on a toroid should just allow you to work closer to the base frequency (larger signal?) while keeping the size managable.

On the later SM units he was probably able to provide more 'sqeezes' with a single outside winding since he then knew the frequency and therefore was able to calculate exact winding spacing and wire size. With proper design he could get the odd turns and even turns squeezing in an alternating fashion. 3rd harmonic pulsing 120, 4th pulsing 90 or even faster? This is starting to sound like a rail-gun.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 20, 2007, 09:07:31 AM
   Number 1 (35k) rolls in right at the place whistlers are the strongest.

   So this puts us at small coils at 245, big coil at 140 and the derived at 35k.  Hmmmmm

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: mrd10 on June 20, 2007, 11:42:24 AM
2 Tests tonight....
Can my triple step-up coil (Tesla Style) newman motor light a bulb on one coil?

Can the magnet bar be made to move with the addition of dc in one other coil. (as per doc posted earlier)?

Results , Yes and Yes, when 9V was applied to the upper coil the magnetic field disappeared in the device and the bar rotated freely by hand. There was no change in the output of the light.

Cam


Cam, nice work there mate, can't wait to get more juicy details.

Dom
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 20, 2007, 01:30:05 PM
I've was playing around to see how fast the amplitude grows when combining waves. Unexpectedly I came across something that I hadn't considered.

Although I've used sine waves for the calculations the same principle still applies because your coils are physically spaced at different degrees apart around a circle. Becauase you are dealing with pulses into the kilohertz and even mega hertz which create magnetic waves that mix, the exact position of your coils, to the nearest 0.5mm will be critical to the phase required between your pulses. My guess is that 1st, 2nd and 3rd harmonics will work when the coils are identical AND they are positioned precisely around a circle equal distances apart. If your coils are slightly different and not quite in the correct place, your sweet spot frequencies don't lie on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd harmonics, resulting in only partial conversions.

Anyhow, back to the waveforms. The red and blue are 90 degrees out of phase. When combined they create another wave (green wave) that is 45 degrees out of phase. However when the green wave and the original red wave combine they form yet another wave but this time the phase is 26.56... out of phase.

Now that is unexpected for me. I had thought that combined waves would continue to divide the phase in two. What this means is that phase plays an extremely important part in the TPU. The continuous mixing of waves results in a continually changing set of phases as well as increasing amplitudes.

Note that when waves of the same frequency mix the resultant wave still has the same frequency, but its phase and amplitude change.

In Otto's working design, by tieing the secondaries back to the primaries in all the coils this will ensure a continued mixing of new pulses with combined pulses. I think Otto's circuit is in affect a circuit that continuously creates waves of different phases. The TPU effects, including the generation of the seed, being caused when the right combination of phased waves is created.

I note in SMs TPU snapshots there appear to be 2 or 4 coils. I haven't seen a setup that appears to use 3. Given that all coils are in parallel, it would not be difficult to add a fourth coil, and still pulse the four coils with the 3 frequencies.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 20, 2007, 02:40:01 PM
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC


Chris,

Yes precision frequency adjustment would be necessary I would think. This is why I'm not sure using DIP switches for frequency selection (if I read that correctly) will be useful for capturing the desired frequency. It sounded like Roberto and Jason are going that route.

Please note that my last posted representation of the circuit, is merely that. It was not intended as a circuit to build. I was trying to illustrate how the primaries are being switched, and to make it easier to visualize what happens with different input scenarios.

One could build this circuit, and it would work, but it won't be the same as the original. I recommend everyone build a divider and drive it with a single (quality) oscillator with fine frequency adjustment. If there is a 3 frequency combination that makes this thing sing, then this is the only way you are going to find it. Also, stay with the 3 FETs and 3 coils the same as Otto's, then you'll be comparing apples with apples.

SM mentioned the use of expensive lab instrumentation to analyse and perhaps detect the overunity he talked about so much involving the piece of wire. This has always troubled me because he mentions that it is so simple and we should start with this in our research, yet we may never be able to detect the effect it supposedly achieves, especially when we are not certain what exactly the effect is we are looking for, i.e. the "kick".

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 20, 2007, 02:40:52 PM
Some high voltage mosfets for people to consider as the IRF840 devices are becoming obsolete:

STB21NM50N
550V - 0.19R
18A
rise/fall 18/30ns

STF12NM50N
500V - 0.29R
11A
rise/fall 15/14ns

STB20NK50Z
500V -0.23R
17A
rise/fall 20/15ns

STP25NM50N
500V - 0.11R
22A
rise/fall 23/22ns

Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 20, 2007, 04:17:05 PM
@Rob,

I'm testing with good results the much more reliable (and cheap) IRFP460: 5ooV, 20A, Trise=59nanosec.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 20, 2007, 04:24:44 PM
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC


Chris,

Yes precision frequency adjustment would be necessary I would think. This is why I'm not sure using DIP switches for frequency selection (if I read that correctly) will be useful for capturing the desired frequency. It sounded like Roberto and Jason are going that route.

Please note that my last posted representation of the circuit, is merely that. It was not intended as a circuit to build. I was trying to illustrate how the primaries are being switched, and to make it easier to visualize what happens with different input scenarios.

One could build this circuit, and it would work, but it won't be the same as the original. I recommend everyone build a divider and drive it with a single (quality) oscillator with fine frequency adjustment. If there is a 3 frequency combination that makes this thing sing, then this is the only way you are going to find it. Also, stay with the 3 FETs and 3 coils the same as Otto's, then you'll be comparing apples with apples.

SM mentioned the use of expensive lab instrumentation to analyse and perhaps detect the overunity he talked about so much involving the piece of wire. This has always troubled me because he mentions that it is so simple and we should start with this in our research, yet we may never be able to detect the effect it supposedly achieves, especially when we are not certain what exactly the effect is we are looking for, i.e. the "kick".

Darren

I suspect he's talking about a real time spectrum analyser. Darren, I'm sure you are aware of what these do but  for those that don't.... basically a digital spectrum analyser does an FFT of the incoming wave. The result is a moving bar graph where each bar represent a particular frequency and the bar  height the amplitude of that frequency. This is exactly like the animated graphic equiliser display on your hifi where the bars bouce up and down. Low down notes appear on the left, higher notes on the right. Except in a high end spectrum analyser these can go into the gigahertz range.

This is particularly useful in examining say an output signal, such as from Otto's device. You could start to observe patterns where the larger frequencies cluster. Then you could adjust your input to enhance those frequencies etc. etc.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 20, 2007, 04:39:40 PM
High all,

please look at Otto's mixer: what is implemented is not OR but rather a sort of 'WIRED AND'.

Have you asked yourselves what happen when for example the lower freq oscillator is in it's 1 level? Well the connected Mosfet's Drain is locked to zero level so locking the same for all the others!! (no matter what they are doing).

In my opinion what it's happening is a rather complex process that's changing continuously as the input freq are asynchronous. Really not easy to understand and in a certain way not deterministic. The output that I see is composed by bursts of freq that suddenly clear and resolve to a fixed & stable condition that you see immediately as the scope trigger is at the end synchronizing something stable!

Lot is left to be understood.

regards to all

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 20, 2007, 04:43:36 PM
Hi Roberto,
Hmm:
IRFP460PBF
500V - 0.27R
20A
rise/fall 59/58ns

Price in Newark is about  3.27USD
Price in UK is a about 8.00 GBP.

Slow and not cheap.

Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 20, 2007, 04:49:40 PM
@Rob,

I pajed them 1 Euro/each !!
THEY seem to do the job...I'll tell you more.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on June 20, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
Have you guys noticed what WaveWatcher said:

Quote
One thing ran into another and I tied the pulse from one coil to another with some LC (no, not big enough mFd to hold a shock) to phase it so it is useful and next thing I know I have two small hacked RS transformers with PM inserted linked as one howling, audibly,  about 300hZ with no signal applied.

Note:   "RS" stands for RadioShack, I believe, "PM" for Permanent Magnet, and "LC"  for Inductor and Capacitor (to make a resonant tank and also change the phase a bit so it adds in feedback)

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 20, 2007, 05:25:52 PM
wavewatcher, can we get some clarification on this? perhaps a diagram?

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 20, 2007, 05:50:21 PM
Have you guys noticed what WaveWatcher said:

Quote
One thing ran into another and I tied the pulse from one coil to another with some LC (no, not big enough mFd to hold a shock) to phase it so it is useful and next thing I know I have two small hacked RS transformers with PM inserted linked as one howling, audibly,  about 300hZ with no signal applied.

Note:   "RS" stands for RadioShack, I believe, "PM" for Permanent Magnet, and "LC"  for Inductor and Capacitor (to make a resonant tank and also change the phase a bit so it adds in feedback)

EM

Yes, makes me wonder,
if he has some kind of MEG self running device ?
Please WaveWatcher let us know.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 20, 2007, 06:11:37 PM
Have you guys noticed what WaveWatcher said:

Quote
One thing ran into another and I tied the pulse from one coil to another with some LC (no, not big enough mFd to hold a shock) to phase it so it is useful and next thing I know I have two small hacked RS transformers with PM inserted linked as one howling, audibly,  about 300hZ with no signal applied.

Note:   "RS" stands for RadioShack, I believe, "PM" for Permanent Magnet, and "LC"  for Inductor and Capacitor (to make a resonant tank and also change the phase a bit so it adds in feedback)

EM

Sounds like Hendershott!  Looking forward to more info!


D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 20, 2007, 06:15:46 PM
@Darren
Thanks. Yes, I was aware your simplified circuit was for illustrative purposes only. My understanding of SM's reference of using high quality equipment in the TPU research was that with these calibre test equipment allow one to monitor what actually was happening from the waveforms when, perhaps mediocre equipment may fall short. Case in point, the 'seed' can't be seen properly with a 20MHz scope and might be interpreted as hash whereas it was clearly discernable with a 100MHz unit. Here we are all trying to reproduce and understand the frequency and phase relationship of the 3 harmonics with limited ability to generate stable synchronous or asynchronous clocks and much less the ability to monitor what is going on wrt the mobius when most of us don't have 'proper' instrumentation!

@bob.rennips
Thanks. Yes, maybe we need a spectrum analyser to see the details when we are near being able to reproduce the magic effect?

Regards

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 20, 2007, 06:25:55 PM
High all,

please look at Otto's mixer: what is implemented is not OR but rather a sort of 'WIRED AND'.

Have you asked yourselves what happen when for example the lower freq oscillator is in it's 1 level? Well the connected Mosfet's Drain is locked to zero level so locking the same for all the others!! (no matter what they are doing).


OR, or Wired AND. It depends on how you look at it.

I see the inputs as an OR, because a logic 1 on f1, OR f2, OR f3 will pull all 3 coils to gnd.

I see the AND part more in an analog sense, in that the supply currents from each "ON" FET switch will sum together.

It's open to interpretation I suppose.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 20, 2007, 06:44:09 PM
@Darren,

Yes, in that sense we are speaking of the same final effect which is important.

For what I've seen the 'Seed' is created by a sweet combination of the 3 frequencies and from the catalyst field produced by the Mobius loops which MUST accelerate any particles (electrons, ions...) that appear to be in the nearings (tested experimentally: if you increase the heath sink modules distance from the ring...the Seed disappears!).  Then saying how is the creation process is really for now impossible. I urge every body to think about this!

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 20, 2007, 07:21:37 PM
Although I've used sine waves for the calculations the same principle still applies because your coils are physically spaced at different degrees apart around a circle. Becauase you are dealing with pulses into the kilohertz and even mega hertz which create magnetic waves that mix, the exact position of your coils, to the nearest 0.5mm will be critical to the phase required between your pulses. My guess is that 1st, 2nd and 3rd harmonics will work when the coils are identical AND they are positioned precisely around a circle equal distances apart. If your coils are slightly different and not quite in the correct place, your sweet spot frequencies don't lie on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd harmonics, resulting in only partial conversions.

Hmm  i always thought the sweet spot frq was a system response?


Below is to Anyone?  Everyone?

I would really and truely like to know the following:

1) What exactly is a kick?

2) What Exactly is a seed?

3) Does anyone have the algorythm or whatever math is used for "majic" please?

Last the question I keep asking over and over and have yet to get any kind of reasonable answer on:

4) How do you combine the "harmonics"?

5) Exactly what do you expect to see when combining those harmonics?

Any info that can be validated regarding the following questions would be very helpful in my understanding of your project.

Finally since a successful tpu is one that runs OU then ottos must run OU correct?

I mean like remove any power sources since the title of this thread does say "successful"?

So many questions so few answers!

 

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 20, 2007, 08:54:35 PM
@ Everyone

I received a PM from WaveWatcher to post here for you! 
Cheers,
Bruce
This is his message:

I've been trying to answer some questions but my posts will not take.

Please relay as you find useful. ---

My device is essentially the mirror image of the TPU. It is self-running after excitation but fails on inductive loads and overheats. The LC circuit was an attempt to bandpass the feedback to self-excite and limit the runaway effect which causes heating due to frequencies exceeding the mechanical characteristics of the device.

The 'seed' as you call it I have referred to as the PE (primary event). My theory on that is...

The PE is the first appearance of focused particles that are already trapped by the Earth's magnetic field. These devices are allowing these particles to be collected and refocused (aligned?) and uses them as the foundation for the summation of frequecies.

We don't normally see this energy because we are at the same potential.

These particles are expelled from the Sun. For a brief instant they are formed as a Mobius field and then deform into chaos. Many of these particles are hel in magnetic field. We are simply polarising and focusing something that is already there.

I won't release detail on mine as it continues to evolve. The design is flawed as it is rectangular causing losses and heating effects. Ironically, it is starting to resemble the Earth in that it will be a sphere with two inner coils. This to avoid field attenuation and prevent spurious emissions. The unwanted emissions appear to promote runaway.

It would appear to be a MEG but Tom's MEG had serious flaws - no accounting for wave timing to prevent hysterisis. Rely on rise mainly instead of rise and fall. No consideration that it is easier to complete a magnetic circuit instead of choke a completed one.

My time is limited as I still must provide for my family.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on June 20, 2007, 09:15:22 PM
@WaveWatcher

Keep on keepin' on! 

Very nice take on the subject at hand.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 20, 2007, 11:13:09 PM
Hmm  i always thought the sweet spot frq was a system response?


Below is to Anyone?  Everyone?

I would really and truely like to know the following:

1) What exactly is a kick?

2) What Exactly is a seed?

3) Does anyone have the algorythm or whatever math is used for "majic" please?

Last the question I keep asking over and over and have yet to get any kind of reasonable answer on:

4) How do you combine the "harmonics"?

5) Exactly what do you expect to see when combining those harmonics?


kokomoj0,

1) No one knows for sure.

2) Ask Otto and Roberto, but I believe this is unknown at the moment. I do have a hypothesis however, and will elaborate in another post later.

3) Please clarify the question.

4) Combining the harmonics can be how Otto is doing it, but this question also levers on what a kick is and how it manifests.

5) If the ECD converts the aether, then an overunity effect would be expected. According to SM, the right combination of frequencies is what allows conversion to take place...they are the catalyst. If CEMF is expected, then the ouput power to input power ratio would be maximized.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on June 20, 2007, 11:15:49 PM
WaveWatcher,

Thank you for the info. It is great to hear you have a Self-Runner.

So your LC network was meant as a bandpass filter. I see, interesting.  It seems you belive any frequency can amplify in feedback, so you're trying to reduce it to lower frequencies perhaps (to keep heating under control)

Rapid heating in magnetic cores is not uncommon and is quite a limitation.  High frequency cores cost a pretty penny.

So one question I have is this:   Will your setup self-run without the feedback LC network?    You seem to imply it can, but I want to be sure.  It might be the key, since lots of people have tried feedback with transformers before.  I like your early direction to study "regeneration" which uses feedback.  Tesla was big on this.

I'll be watching WaveWatcher more closely     :D     LOL

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 20, 2007, 11:17:05 PM
Wavewatcher,

Your device sounds intriguing.

It is worthy of its own thread, and I would encourage you to start a new one for it.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 21, 2007, 12:23:33 AM
Yes, Darren,

Wave watcher , Fantastic stuff, but Please do another thread! This one is for Otto and Roberto replication.

All else here, I urge you to do the replication.
You have the document??
What's stopping you?

It may not be a running generator yet but Please If have the skill its is time to do something..Common ground you know.

A walK to first base?

Before long most of  the discussions will only be relevent to those who have a little tornado...and some "seeds".

Threads  may become a bit disjointed as new people parachute in!

Great Days!!



Lindsay Mannix

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 21, 2007, 12:39:44 AM
@Wavewatcher,
Looks like you have cracked it then!
A self runner is something we all want to get running.
I almost guessed the same set of harmonic frequencies as you suggested.

Here's another thought I have been having:
Maybe the three coils can setup a magnetic magnifying lens that pulls in a massive concentration of magnetic earths field from above and below the ring. This magnetic field (vortex) induces the power in the output coils of the TPU.
So to prove this you could encase it in a container made of mu-metal say.

Any chance you could post a photo of your setup.

Its starting to get really interesting in this forum now - what we need is multiple replications of self-runners.

Regards
Rob

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 21, 2007, 01:22:41 AM
Hello All,

Here is a photo of my harmonic pulse board that I mentioned earlier. It also incorporates the mic4427 MOSFET drivers. This board has a 12-bit ripple counter installed which will allow me to select up to 12-harmonics from the single input frequency. All outputs are in sync and have a 50% duty cycle (I didn't think about pulse width control at the time I designed this). I also included a circuit schematic of the connections. This was drawn up in EagleCAD so if anyone wants the PCB drawing, let me know.

NOTE: This is an older photo of the board. I have since clipped off the capacitors on the output of the MOSFET drivers.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bobinaccounting on June 21, 2007, 02:04:12 AM
@Wavewatcher,


Here's another thought I have been having:
Maybe the three coils can setup a magnetic magnifying lens that pulls in a massive concentration of magnetic earths field from above and below the ring. This magnetic field (vortex) induces the power in the output coils of the TPU.



Thats what I said, vortexes!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dlwammo on June 21, 2007, 02:11:32 AM
Is this anything that might help?

US Patent#:  6,496,047
One of the inventors names is "Stephen Mark" Iskander ???
Filed: June 23, 1999

SOLID STATE SWITCH WITH PULSE CONTROL

Seems rather interesting.....

Dan
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 21, 2007, 03:20:25 AM
For those that may be interested, below is a circuit that should work well for a harmonic divider. I specifically altered it to provide a fundamental, 2nd harmonic, and 3rd harmonic.

The frequency you put in, is the f3 (higher) frequency. f1 and f2 are generated from this.

Dave has built this circuit and verified it works. Below the circuit you will see the simulated output waveforms, which also verify it works.

Please note however, that the f2 output is 66% duty cycle, not 50%.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 21, 2007, 04:29:09 AM
@Darren,

Yes, in that sense we are speaking of the same final effect which is important.

For what I've seen the 'Seed' is created by a sweet combination of the 3 frequencies and from the catalyst field produced by the Mobius loops which MUST accelerate any particles (electrons, ions...) that appear to be in the nearings (tested experimentally: if you increase the heath sink modules distance from the ring...the Seed disappears!).  Then saying how is the creation process is really for now impossible. I urge every body to think about this!

Roberto

I was wondering if anyone else picked up on something Roberto said in his post above. I've highlighted the important point.

The possibility that RFI feedback from the wire loops is causing the "seeds", should not be dismissed.

I do believe this is what is causing the seeds. The effect is proximity dependant. With the FETs far enough away from the loops, the seeds disappear.

A piece of wire driven with high current transients and high frequencies, no longer is strictly a piece of wire. Inductive reactance is going to be present in the FET gate, and this coupled with the high input resistance seen looking into the Gate could be causing the artifact being labeled as "the seed".

It is quite evident from the tests done so far that there is significant RFI being radiated by the loops, which makes this hypothesis quite plausible. The large metalic surface area of the heat sinks are probably acting as good receiving antennas, and re-radiating the RFI.

See the annotated diagram below.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on June 21, 2007, 04:35:18 AM

Also scope your Fets an look at the BEMF spikes, turn your probe to *10, those fets are getting hit hard.

I added a small cap to my primary and it increased the output of the light. Why because now the primary is acting more like a tank ctc and oscillates giving the secondary more punch.
 
Cam
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 04:43:03 AM
@Wavewatcher,


Here's another thought I have been having:
Maybe the three coils can setup a magnetic magnifying lens that pulls in a massive concentration of magnetic earths field from above and below the ring. This magnetic field (vortex) induces the power in the output coils of the TPU.



Thats what I said, vortexes!

so how much "massive earths magnetic flux" do you need to run a tpu?

Then does the earth just sit here and constantly resonate at 7.8htz or can it made to resonate where its resonant freq is 7.8 htz?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 04:47:58 AM
RANT
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 21, 2007, 05:10:18 AM
A further note to the harmonic divider circuit I posted.

I recommend you follow the outputs with a positive edge-triggered one-shot pulse generator. Make it variable pulse width and you're set. The 66% duty cycle of f2 then is of no consequence.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 21, 2007, 05:31:16 AM
Yes, Darren,

Wave watcher , Fantastic stuff, but Please do another thread! This one is for Otto and Roberto replication.

All else here, I urge you to do the replication.
You have the document??
What's stopping you?

It may not be a running generator yet but Please If have the skill its is time to do something..Common ground you know.

A walK to first base?

Before long most of  the discussions will only be relevent to those who have a little tornado...and some "seeds".

Threads  may become a bit disjointed as new people parachute in!

Great Days!!



Lindsay Mannix



please describe for us what exactly a tornado is and how one can produce it?

Is that something taken from maxwell's sets of equations?



Yes, the tornado is part of maxwell's equations.

Please Kokomo, if you have blatant disdain for what we are doing, why do you torture yourself here?

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 21, 2007, 05:45:40 AM
The opposite of distain! I did not want to take wind away from anyone. Right now I wish I kept my mouth shut.
If ANYONE wants to query me - look for a new thread. I'll make one. Don't bother asking me for info about my current project on this thread. I will not respond.
I have already started my own TPU because the amount and quality being learned here would be a great asset for my project. At some point info from mine may aid in a TPU design. If so I'll post - no need to ask for it.

The work on this thread is to important and the TPU appears likely to be a much better method to achieve same. Self-running doesn't mean squat if the thing wants to explode.

Any ideas/reports I post here will only have to do with Otto and Roberto's work or the replication thereof.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 21, 2007, 05:52:46 AM
The opposite of distain! I did not want to take wind away from anyone. Right now I wish I kept my mouth shut.
If ANYONE wants to query me - look for a new thread. I'll make one. Don't bother asking me for info about my current project on this thread. I will not respond.
I have already started my own TPU because the amount and quality being learned here would be a great asset for my project. At some point info from mine may aid in a TPU design. If so I'll post - no need to ask for it.

The work on this thread is to important and the TPU appears likely to be a much better method to achieve same. Self-running doesn't mean squat if the thing wants to explode.

Any ideas/reports I post here will only have to do with Otto and Roberto's work or the replication thereof.

Not you wavewatcher. Please see who I was actually quoting. I changed it to make more clear, sorry for the crossed wires. (pun intended)

I'll check your thread for sure.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: WaveWatcher on June 21, 2007, 05:59:28 AM
Argh! Supposedly I have an IQ that scares folks but that doesn't mean I'm not stupid.
 
:-X
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 21, 2007, 06:06:24 AM
Argh! Supposedly I have an IQ that scares folks but that doesn't mean I'm not stupid.
 
:-X

double negative. Man you're on a roll.  ;D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 21, 2007, 07:11:29 AM
I simulated Otto's circuit in the falstad circuit simulator app. Given the ANDed nature of the FETS, I used only one FET input.

Interesting that it came up that in ideal circumstances that the output should be 2.2 kv very sharp spikes and yes that is Kilo volts!!

Note that the sim. assumes standard transformers not air coils. Also to get this output I needed to put a small inductance rather than pure resistance across the output. This I think is fair as a standard bulb will have some inductance.

Increase this inductance and you get massive spikes.

Word of warning. This could EASILY be a simulator artifact. After all the nature of the circuit is very unusual. BUT I find it more than interesting that it simulated an ideal output of large high voltage spikes. Both high rise times and high voltage are known features of an SM devices.

Playing around with the values can easily move the circuit into infinite uncalculatable status from the simulator's perspective.

To use:

1. Goto http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
2. Open the attached text file and copy the contents.
3. Paste into the IMPORT section of the circuit simulator applet.

YOU MUST PRESS THE RESET BUTTON AFTER IMPORTING.

Cheers, Bob.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 21, 2007, 07:53:59 AM
@ Bob R.

HELP...please verify!!!

I did an edit of somethings:

3.5 volts input
Square Wave
7.23 Hz         <------ I have said this frequency is in the TPU because of the clues!!
OUTPUT
30.36 KV


What do I say, I am speechless!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 08:07:39 AM
@ Bob R.

HELP...please verify!!!

I did an edit of somethings:

3.5 volts input
Square Wave
7.23 Hz         <------ I have said this frequency is in the TPU because of the clues!!
OUTPUT
30.36 KV


What do I say, I am speechless!

so you put 3.5 volts in at 7 htz and got 30,000 volts out?


What was the input current and the output current?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 21, 2007, 08:11:58 AM
It seems the lower the hertz the higher the voltage. I tried 2Hz and got 100+kv.

I'm thinking this is simulator stuff up now...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 08:16:03 AM
another RANT
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 21, 2007, 08:16:38 AM
Well, that is okay, Bob! :)  LOL

It was fun to play with....who wants to try their replication at 7.23 Hz as one of their frequencies??  It made me a little shy! LOL
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 08:18:01 AM
the only  thing i know how to do is RANT
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 21, 2007, 08:21:56 AM
@ Bob R.

HELP...please verify!!!

I did an edit of somethings:

3.5 volts input
Square Wave
7.23 Hz         <------ I have said this frequency is in the TPU because of the clues!!
OUTPUT
30.36 KV


What do I say, I am speechless!

so you put 3.5 volts in at 7 htz and got 30,000 volts out?


What was the input current and the output current?

kokomojo, put brain in gear before operating mouth!
It's clear from the last few thread posts that we're talking about the simulator.

Get off the case with the input/output stuff. It's getting boring.

At this point we're examining anomalies.
We believe that identifying and then fully utilising these anomalies will result FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, in an overunity device.

I can categorically say that now the device is NOT OVERUNITY in its present form.



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 21, 2007, 08:32:41 AM
MORE RANT
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 21, 2007, 08:48:31 AM
Yes, Darren,

Wave watcher , Fantastic stuff, but Please do another thread! This one is for Otto and Roberto replication.

All else here, I urge you to do the replication.
You have the document??
What's stopping you?

It may not be a running generator yet but Please If have the skill its is time to do something..Common ground you know.

A walK to first base?

Before long most of  the discussions will only be relevent to those who have a little tornado...and some "seeds".

Threads  may become a bit disjointed as new people parachute in!

Great Days!!



Lindsay Mannix



please describe for us what exactly a tornado is and how one can produce it?

Is that something taken from maxwell's sets of equations?



Yes, the tornado is part of maxwell's equations.

Please Kokomo, if you have blatant disdain for what we are doing, why do you torture yourself here?



Awesome!    I guess i must have either overlooked it or we are using different text books?

Would you please be so kind as to give me the ISDN number or the title and publisher of your reference for that so I can go to the library and look it up?   Or URL i am not picky.....   I would very much appreciate it because I cannot find it in my stuff.  TIA

Then what about "kick" and "seed" and finally that long unanswered question of "how can harmonics be lined up"?

Who did the work on them, Lorentz? Faraday? Hertz? Tesla?   I have not been able to find reference to any of them either and maybe you can help me better understand what is going on here by either explaining exactly what those are or by providing me with the appropriate references so that i may do my own research and look them up for myself.   Again TIA.


No not disdain or torture at all.  i have no idea how asking for references and definitions would possibly be interpreted as disdain, do you use a different dictionary than the rest of the world?

I simply want to know what all that means before i consider winding a coil.

A kick (in the ass) is something my father did when we were naughty children.

A seed is something we planted in the garden and a plant would grown.

Harmonics is garbage as a result of the fundamental.

So you can imagine how totally confused i am when i hear all these terms thrown around that simply do not make any sense to me, so that is why i am asking.

Very simple questions i would think for researchers like yourselves. no?


Kokomojo,

I think you would agree that ALL the knowledge and understanding of the world of electricity and magnetism is by definition only a MODEL. It is NOT THE ACTUAL thing itself BY DEFINITION.

I agree that the model is very, very good, but it would be completely arrogant of anyone to say that the model and the actual thing are identical in every respect. THEY ARE NOT.

The start to improvements to the model occur when a researcher, experimentor, inventor, or layman observes something that they believe to be different from expected.

When this occurs in all endeavours, when trying to explain the anomaly there will be a mismatched between the available concepts and words, because they are based on the model, and not on what people are trying to explain.

BY DEFINITION, the words aren't available. Albeit on this forum there is a tendency to use words without considering their direct formal meaning to get across an idea of the direction of what they are seeing and in some cases physically feeling. Theories abound without so much a nary whiff of evidence. But this is all part of the mix. Ignore what is rubbish, and hold on to those things that appear strange.

So by saying "show me the references", you are showing that you haven't comprehended one the basic concepts of science, that knowledge is a model. So rather than, in your mind, taking the high road, you are in fact, trawling in the gutter, and displaying to the world your ignorance concering what knowledge really is.

This is not a university lab. This is a bunch of guys with varying backgrounds, languages and education trying to tweeze out the anomalies from the scant information concerning the Steve Mark's TPU.

If you cannot comprehend that such a diverse bunch of people will have trouble communicating their observations then what does that say about you ?

At the end of the day you either believe something is anomalous with the Steven Mark's TPU or you don't. If you don't then why are you here ?

If you do, then accept that what people write is the 'flavour' of what they are observing, it's not the complete recipe. Words WILL be used in the wrong context; gut feelings WILL be presented as FACTS; current scientific concepts WILL be mangled and twisted way beyond their formal meaning; but this is the nature of a FORUM.

If you cannot comprehend the bigger picture of what is happening on this forum and why that nature of the communication, is how it is, then this really is YOUR problem.

Bob.

PS. It is still frustrating as hell, but as time goes on, I'm getting better at ignoring what I don't comprehend, even if I think they are sometimes randomly linking scientific words together. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Take what you can, experiement, and put back what you can.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 21, 2007, 08:49:36 AM
Posted by: kokomoj0
i simpy dont get it?


LOL 
That says it all! :)

Good night guys!

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 21, 2007, 08:53:22 AM
@ Bob R.

HELP...please verify!!!

I did an edit of somethings:

3.5 volts input
Square Wave
7.23 Hz         <------ I have said this frequency is in the TPU because of the clues!!
OUTPUT
30.36 KV


What do I say, I am speechless!

so you put 3.5 volts in at 7 htz and got 30,000 volts out?


What was the input current and the output current?

kokomojo, put brain in gear before operating mouth!
It's clear from the last few thread posts that we're talking about the simulator.

Get off the case with the input/output stuff. It's getting boring.

At this point we're examining anomalies.
We believe that identifying and then fully utilising these anomalies will result FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, in an overunity device.

I can categorically say that now the device is NOT OVERUNITY in its present form.





my apologies.  Just curious man...  My multisim indicates input and output.

Not sure why that is such a problem for everyone since that is how "over unity" is determined after all. 

Yeh and that is anoth4er thing that is confusing to me;  if it is not over unity how can anyone claim a "successful replication of the tpu ecd" as the title of this thread says?  i simpy dont get it?

You got a link, the text file and instructions. A 1 minute exercise. GO!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 21, 2007, 09:43:12 AM
hey koko:

Why waste the Forum space? You know this bunch of folks will not be discussing SM's TPU if we really understood what caused these anomalies. Right? You know darn well this is not a OU device, so what continue to drag the input power vs output power argument, seed and tornados? At this stage. We're all trying to pull our brains and coil winding experiments just to try to reproduce and understand these 'unknown' anomalies. What is so wrong with our efforts?

Please, try to help if you are able to or simply find yourself another playground. Is that too much to ask?

Cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ForeverBlissed on June 21, 2007, 10:18:51 AM
I'm a total newbee here but completely captivated by this thread.

I've downloaded all the PDF files... watched the videos, and am totally excited about this potential.

The question that I have however is simple...

Why doesn't anyone simply contact Steven Mark and ask him for help?

FB
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 21, 2007, 10:22:15 AM
I'm a total newbee here but completely captivated by this thread.

I've downloaded all the PDF files... watched the videos, and am totally excited about this potential.

The question that I have however is simple...

Why doesn't anyone simply contact Steven Mark and ask him for help?

FB


@FB
Obviously you didn't read what you downloaded! Takes a few weeks to digest all this stuff. Good luck.

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 21, 2007, 02:22:07 PM
kokomoj0,

I would encourage you, if you are genuinly interested in the TPU, to go back, read and re-read the SM material, and formulate an interpretation of your own. This is what I have done over the past year, and it is still a work in progress.

You're intelligent, and I know that you already know the answer to some or most of your questions, but perhaps you're being a sillybugger at times with them? Give them some leeway with their terms etc. I get the sense that you want to contribute here, so keep on doing so.

The rest here, why not give koko some breathing room, take it with a grain if you must. No real harm done. Without skeptics in the world, perhaps our egos and assumptions would be out of control? It keeps us in check, and makes us go back and contemplate our results. I'm a skeptic at times too, but hopefully in a positive way...at least that is my intention.

Regards,
Darren

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 21, 2007, 04:27:21 PM
@ ZPE
I agree, and skeptics and critiques are good, even some rants, BUT NOT on this thread.  Stefan has plenty of space for another Koko thread for his rants and critiques.  There he can say his peace, etc.

@ Koko
Please start a new thread of rants and critiques.  Thank you. 
Unless you prefer "read only mode".  :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 21, 2007, 04:46:40 PM
Yes, Darren,

Wave watcher , Fantastic stuff, but Please do another thread! This one is for Otto and Roberto replication.

All else here, I urge you to do the replication.
You have the document??
What's stopping you?

It may not be a running generator yet but Please If have the skill its is time to do something..Common ground you know.

A walK to first base?

Before long most of  the discussions will only be relevent to those who have a little tornado...and some "seeds".

Threads  may become a bit disjointed as new people parachute in!

Great Days!!



Lindsay Mannix



please describe for us what exactly a tornado is and how one can produce it?

Is that something taken from maxwell's sets of equations?



Yes, the tornado is part of maxwell's equations.

Please Kokomo, if you have blatant disdain for what we are doing, why do you torture yourself here?



Awesome!    I guess i must have either overlooked it or we are using different text books?

Would you please be so kind as to give me the ISDN number or the title and publisher of your reference for that so I can go to the library and look it up?   Or URL i am not picky.....   I would very much appreciate it because I cannot find it in my stuff.  TIA

Then what about "kick" and "seed" and finally that long unanswered question of "how can harmonics be lined up"?

Who did the work on them, Lorentz? Faraday? Hertz? Tesla?   I have not been able to find reference to any of them either and maybe you can help me better understand what is going on here by either explaining exactly what those are or by providing me with the appropriate references so that i may do my own research and look them up for myself.   Again TIA.


No not disdain or torture at all.  i have no idea how asking for references and definitions would possibly be interpreted as disdain, do you use a different dictionary than the rest of the world?

I simply want to know what all that means before i consider winding a coil.

A kick (in the ass) is something my father did when we were naughty children.

A seed is something we planted in the garden and a plant would grown.

Harmonics is garbage as a result of the fundamental.

So you can imagine how totally confused i am when i hear all these terms thrown around that simply do not make any sense to me, so that is why i am asking.

Very simple questions i would think for researchers like yourselves. no?

Ok, seems I have misinterpreted your queries, or having called you on your mocking of us, you are now backpeddaling, either way it doesn't matter.

So, yeah, I guess you couldn't tell that I was being sarcastic as well. Maxwell's equations don't have anything about a tornado, as it's a metaphor for the spinning field that SM's devices utilize. So there won't be anything in it about that, aside from the simple relationship between electricity and magnetic fields.

For more information on spinning magnetic fields, go pop open a dc motor. Tesla's patent is 390721 I believe.

As for the seed, it's just an artifact on the scope that seems to do some interesting things when it joins up with other waveforms that are being produced. Sharp DC spikes seem to convert into sinusoidal ones. This is also a metaphor. Can you think of why someone would use seed in this scenario? The kicks are just dc spikes of a fairly large amplitude (according to otto and roberto's interpretation). (oh we believe kick is also a metaphor for a sharp spike of energy)

Did you read their doc?

Thing is, we're not completely sure what a kick is in reading SM's posts and thier docs, and after having done considerable experimentation, we know that a kick has a mechanical component, as well as an electrical one.

Try shorting battery cables to a battery. That's SM's first experiemnt givent to us.

So that's TPUOLOGY 101.

the glossary anyway.

Rich

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 21, 2007, 05:57:11 PM
kokomoj0,

..... perhaps you're being a sillybugger at times with them?

Regards,
Darren


LOL. I've never heard this word used again until now. I last I heard this being used was years ago as college student in England! Got to love the British for formulating such a word!

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: magnetite on June 21, 2007, 08:08:57 PM
@ WaveWatcher
I have read through both of your downloads.  Very impressive information.  Now I see how you came to the time dilation theory.  General relativistic electromagnetic effects explains it fairly well.

The other download CERTAINLY makes the case for Alternating current being used in the control coils rather than Direct Current.  I too have said this for some time now, and I am convinced that this is what SM did.  But your download give the scientific reason "why" I do believe.

As far as winding the collectors as an antenna, I and my researchers had thought of that but then had set that idea aside.  So, in your theory of operation, we have collectors with mobius, wound as an antenna, tuned to resonate.  Alternating Current for the input to control coils, and then the frequencies to bring resonance = electrical power output.  And "tuning" the Alternating Current to the core (7.23 Hz) would be best.  Is this your thoughts?  (It sure sounds alot like mine! LOL)

Thank you for your time
Bruce

7.23 hz is quite close to, but slightly off, the figure of 7.83 -
the Earth's field - might this be because a more precise tuning would result in the very situation SM warned against? a runaway event?

Magnetite
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 21, 2007, 08:56:27 PM
Simulators, shimulators.
Let's keep this light?
Follow the specs for building a GK4 and build one. Stick it to the side of your head and turn it on! Did you hear that sound? That is 'Your brain on TPU'! Notice the fantastic colors and visions of  your personally applied lobotomy as it takes affect. Notice the wide breadth of idiocy as brain cells die off. Everybody stand up give the chest salute.

Alot of talk and no building? Instead of speculating about overunity do the real thing and hurt yourself. Then will all of you believe?

--giantkiller. Wow.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: devilzangel on June 21, 2007, 10:30:14 PM
i cant help but wonder .. SM, if he is reading this thread, might be laughing his ass off seeing how complicated we are making this thing ..

what i think:
2 horizontal rings (connected in some fashion) (maybe a 1 turn mobius)
4 vert. coils in a cross pattern over the bottom ring (approx 10-11 turns each)
2 neo mags placed across each other, in between 2 of the vertical coils
and somehow this thing is pulsed in some fashion .. (1 carrier wave (noise), 1 base freq, 2 harmonics... uggh .. dont know)

for reference, look at the few pics at the bottom of the screenshots i put up here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2285.msg36145.html#msg36145

MANNIX .. please ask SM WHY there are 4 COILS .. we are under the impression that there are 3 total coils oriented in a 120degree fashion (from all the letters i read) .. but this is NOT the case when looking at the video screenshots.

i hope to someday start my own experiments on this thing .. unfortunately this is not right now; my dad would go crazy seeing me working with this stuff, especially when i am getting a degree in finance!! lol.

Jesus .. over 500 posts .. how the heck am i supposed to keep up .. ???

devilzangel
..
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on June 22, 2007, 12:05:37 AM
Quote
YES THERE IS A ROTATING FEILD WHICH CAUSES ELECTRONS TO FLOW IN COPPER WIRE AND BE USED TO PROVIDE USEFULL WORK FORCE. THERE ARE MANY WIRES PERPINDICULAR TO THE MAIN
COLLECTOR.(Control coils) THIS IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE DEVICE.

SINCERELY,

SM.

I agree that we are making it too complicated.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on June 22, 2007, 12:35:37 AM
i cant help but wonder .. SM, if he is reading this thread, might be laughing his ass off seeing how complicated we are making this thing ..

what i think:
2 horizontal rings (connected in some fashion) (maybe a 1 turn mobius)
4 vert. coils in a cross pattern over the bottom ring (approx 10-11 turns each)
2 neo mags placed across each other, in between 2 of the vertical coils
and somehow this thing is pulsed in some fashion .. (1 carrier wave (noise), 1 base freq, 2 harmonics... uggh .. dont know)

for reference, look at the few pics at the bottom of the screenshots i put up here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2285.msg36145.html#msg36145

MANNIX .. please ask SM WHY there are 4 COILS .. we are under the impression that there are 3 total coils oriented in a 120degree fashion (from all the letters i read) .. but this is NOT the case when looking at the video screenshots.

i hope to someday start my own experiments on this thing .. unfortunately this is not right now; my dad would go crazy seeing me working with this stuff, especially when i am getting a degree in finance!! lol.

Jesus .. over 500 posts .. how the heck am i supposed to keep up .. ???

devilzangel
..

By using tenacity and fortitude..just like Otto.

By reading everything and being patient.

Building it and seeking the Seed  described will be essential to your understanding ..or confusion.

Thats what I am doing  easy to start....hard to stop,but

this is not a race! a bit like an assignment where nobody but a bunch of looneys on the net believe in you HA!

Its better than football and hopefully, nobody gets hurt.

As to the question. We are beyond analysing video now but I do not have the answer to your 4 coil question. and yes,I have asked it..

This thread is for ECD replication..



Lindsay





Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 22, 2007, 05:35:00 AM
just a RANT
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 22, 2007, 05:39:50 AM
Hi kokomoj0 and all,
please this is no thread to rant about things,
but to discuss the replications.

I will split up soon this thread into only the technical postings and
move the "rants" posting a a different thread.
We need to keep the Skeptics in their own thread and don?t interrupt
the workers with their replications over here..

So please be ontopic over here.
Thanks.
Regards, Stefan. (admin)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kokomoj0 on June 22, 2007, 05:42:35 AM
ok stefan what ever you say man i am off the topic wind coils to your hearts content, the only thing I ever do is RANT anyway.

People in here dont even know what a fucking rant is.  fuck this thread.  No fuck anything to do with the tpu


there that is a rant!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 22, 2007, 05:56:45 AM
Okay, kokomoj0  I have set you now on Read Only access.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 22, 2007, 10:33:16 AM
I do not wish to sound negative with this question but think its important to answer: -

Do Otto and Roberto intend to rerun their tests using a 12V battery for the power supply then measure and report the DC current taken to illuminate their light bulb at the brightest level possible using  three frequencies?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 22, 2007, 03:45:16 PM
Quote somewhere: 'There are many ways to get there'.
Fact: SM has shown us 3 different types of TPUs.

Statement: 'When we were a child we spoke as a child'
Question: Why does this have to take so long?
Answer from one who used to rant: 'He who whines wants what they have not earned'

Otto & Roberto have shown a 4th physical model, albeit not finished.

And without the responsibilty of work comes not the reward of respect for what one has achieved.

I am happy with all the results so far by everyone. How's that from someone who is running the race?

--giantkiller. Guaranteed: Those who rant haven't seen RE spikes on their bench yet. :o ;)

@Stefan, I like the quantum physics in the sidebar. Nice touch. :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: CTG Labs on June 22, 2007, 04:08:41 PM
GK,

As you know I have tested several TPUs and I have seen many HV spikes.  Can you explain to me please what makes them Radiant Spikes (whatever that is) compared to simply inductive high voltage spikes?


Thanks,

D.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 22, 2007, 04:46:43 PM
Okay, kokomoj0  I have set you now on Read Only access.

Regards, Stefan.

And the crowd roars.

Hey, wavewatcher. When are you gonna make your own thread? I'm interested in hearing more about your research.

@all, as luck would have it, just as I got my cct built (mostly), we got 2 acceptable offers on our house. As we were countering one, a full price offer came in, so we're all wrapped up in real estate stuff right now.

Then get this, my car started acting like it wanted to give up the ghost, so I'm putting that in the shop today and getting a rental car. When it rains it pours. Perhaps god's telling me something?

Anyway, testing my tpu is on hold until I get a break in the clouds.

Good work stefan. Stuff like that is one of the main reasons I left here before. People like that went completely unchecked before.

Thanks,
Rich

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 22, 2007, 05:32:10 PM
@ Rich

WaveWatcher started his own thread in the news section:  "Bird on a Wire". 

He gave all of us the secret to turn the ECD into the real deal for which I am grateful.

He wrote:

"If the same frequency is applied to both rings (of the mobius) going both directions with separete signals and the rings are inductively coupled to propogate that signal back and forth between rings a multitude of spawned frequencies would emerge. Each taking the same path and spawning more of the same until the mechanics of the process could not support higher frequencies without serious attenuation."

THAT is the SECRET to make more power from our "baby" TPU.  This is the real deal.

So there we have it.  Case solved.  Secret's out.  Can we control it??  That will be the next "hard part".

Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 22, 2007, 05:50:48 PM
Hello all,

Im 4 days at home. Must not go to work. So Im playing with coils.

Today I wanted to know how many turns should have my primary coil of my little transformer. I did a loooot of tests. I spent a lot of hours, cutted my primary coil, measured....result NOTHING!!!!!

The point is: THE DIAMETER AND THE LENGHT OF THE PRIMARY COIL IS NOT IMPORTANT!!!!!

First I had a 12m long coil and pulsed this coil. Signals fine....then shorter and shorter and then I saw it: at a frequency between 50 kHz and 60 kHz I could clearly see SINE WAVES!!!!! This happens at 12m or 2m lenghtof my coil.

Yes, I know what Im wrighting. The lenght and diameter is NOT important. To see sine waves the frequency is important.

This sine waves I saw with a 0,5mm diameter coil even less then 2m long!!! Just 1 frequency and a wire. But I have to say that everything is connected like in a TPU: I have the Mobius and my pulsed MOSFET is on a copper plate arround 5 x 3 cm in dimensions and 1cm thick. Of course I can also see the seeds. They are so little that my scope is in the range of 200mV. Then I can see the seeds.

Dont ask for a picture because my camera is "out of house". The seeds and the sines are the same as in the pdf. Oh, no, not the same because I have no secondary coil. The sines are arround 10 - 15V.
Now, Its clear why we need a secondary coil, or to say it better, why we need a little transformer in our TPU:

In the primary  at 50 - 60kHz sine waves are created and the secondary coil is an amplifier.

Just look at the open TPU. Try to see how many red wired windings you can see.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 22, 2007, 06:07:15 PM
So it sounds like:
you pick the total length of the primary,
then calculate the mass length of the secondary,
Find the resonant frequency to the primary,
and you have accomplished the seed step.

Here is a half done spread sheet to do this. It is hard coded for 30awg and 26awg. Change it accordingly for your needs.

--giantkiller. No? Yes?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on June 23, 2007, 04:14:14 AM
Otto,

It has been 3 months now since you claimed you had a WORKING TPU and you claimed you could PROVE it.

That certainly catched my attention and i dropped all my experiments aswell as all my research activities to catch up with you.

You told "us" we were wasting our time and all our coils were wound the wrong way.....etc.

I was wondering how can you be so sure since you do not have any idea of what i was actually doing.

Now you are talking about the number of turns...
This makes me think....
I guess we all know what happens when we wrap bifilar coils with variable number of turns.

It is called stepping up.

untill now i have not seen any real indication of your so called "creation of energy"

Here is a pdf, so you can see what you claimed, in case you forgot.

I am going to continue my own experiments because they were going quite nicely before all of this.....

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MrMag on June 23, 2007, 04:41:48 AM
Otto,

I do believe what Marco is saying. The way your primaries and secondaries are wound, you are setting up a setup transformer. I could be wrong but this is what it look like to me. Also, the 50 Hz signal you are now getting is probably coming from your mains supply. Do you have fluorescent fixtures near by?

Tim
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MrMag on June 23, 2007, 04:44:06 AM
I mean step-up transformer not setup transformer. Sorry.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 23, 2007, 05:19:37 AM
Also, the 50 Hz signal you are now getting is probably coming from your mains supply. Do you have fluorescent fixtures near by?

Tim

@ Tim
Otto said:  In the primary  at 50 - 60kHz sine waves are created and the secondary coil is an amplifier.

Not 50 hz.  So no, it is not from the lighting or mains.  LOL

@ Everyone
Please build it before critiquing it.  Do you expect one day, a coil suddenly puts out 100 Watts.  No research and development.  No putting ideas into it.  No replicating it.  I think some have over zealous expectation of what the initial discover of how the TPU works should look like.  This is it.  Mechanics will change.  Controllers have already change, I can not even keep up with it.

And Yesterday, WaveWatcher gave a gift of information from experience to bring it to the next level.  I have scheduled with my partner to experiment this Sunday afternoon.  He has limited time, so I am constrained by his schedule, but we are ready.  Our coil is done.  Our parts are in.  Hours spent soldering the legs on the IRF3707.  Sunday we look for the seed and move it towards the top of the RE spike and watch it convert to a Sine Wave and produce electricity.

There are many many TPU's.  SM said they wound hundreds, looking for the best set up.  Some have given up without even replicating this first one.  After replication, I take my coil to the next step.  Version 2.0 one might say and do as WaveWatcher had said.

SM's words:
"15 Yes there is an inertia.
16 Yes there is a genuine gyroscopic effect when the units are on.
Everybody has noticed that when held and in operation, the units have a
definite vibration and have a gyroscopic effect.
They seam to resist being moved through the air.
When placed on a smooth surface it is very pronounced.
Some of you should think about that.
17 Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that.
If you could have a field that you could think of as a big ball.
And you could rotate it in two directions
what would the ramifications
be?"

This is what version 2.0 AFTER replication will bring us.  WaveWatchers Opposing signals will bring this.  Questioning is good.  But please understand that we are now putting in 3 frequencies (I ranted on this about 20 times if you recall in my thread)  We have the mobius, the form of which will also change along with the mechanics, etc.

SM said there were wires perpindicular wrapped on each of the three collectors and wires wrapped perpindicular around ALL three collectors.  The mechanics WILL change, but let's do this one, post our results.  Learn from them.  Experiment and grow as a team until we have it self running.  I predict this will be before September 15th.  I think that soon you will all be amazed at how fast the work progresses. 

Don't hesitate to replicate, post and then add the next step.  We can all still play with our own coils.  As GK said, we have the controls for speed, we know about the frequencies, square pulse and WaveWatchers opposing signals. 

Enough said.  "Hope differed makes the heart sick."  So instead, build, and see for yourself!
Thank you all for your time,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MrMag on June 23, 2007, 05:37:24 AM
Ooops, sorry Otto. I guess I should have realized that you would of known better. Just didn't see the "K" in from of the "Hz". I think that the 50 just stood out for me.

Bruce,
 
Thanks for correcting me :D

BTW my mobius is built and coils wound. The 4427's showed up today. Hoping to find some time this weekend to play.

Tim
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: steve_whiss on June 23, 2007, 04:45:16 PM

..just to say I've put a long ramble with an idea how TPU might work on

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2577.msg36643.html#msg36643

steve
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 23, 2007, 05:02:15 PM
Otto,

It has been 3 months now since you claimed you had a WORKING TPU and you claimed you could PROVE it.

That certainly catched my attention and i dropped all my experiments aswell as all my research activities to catch up with you.

You told "us" we were wasting our time and all our coils were wound the wrong way.....etc.

I was wondering how can you be so sure since you do not have any idea of what i was actually doing.

Now you are talking about the number of turns...
This makes me think....
I guess we all know what happens when we wrap bifilar coils with variable number of turns.

It is called stepping up.

untill now i have not seen any real indication of your so called "creation of energy"

Here is a pdf, so you can see what you claimed, in case you forgot.

I am going to contin

ue my own experiments because they were going quite nicely before all of this.....

Marco.

Hi Marco,
I agree, it would be good, if Otto or Roberto could now
show a few pictures or a video, with which they could prove,
that they are getting more power out  than in.

As Jason told me recently he had his digital ampmeter on the AC
setting, when he measured his input current and the current went
down, so I don?t trust this measurement anymore.

So all in all, we don?t yet have a conclusive proof, that these
TPU-ECDs really put more power out  than is going into them..

We would really like to see a bright 60 Watts bulb just being powered
by less than 20 Watts input.. Can anybody show this conclusively?

Did Otto now get his new scope ?

Sorry, I was away for a few days and have to catch up.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 23, 2007, 10:15:38 PM
@stefan

It's always good to see you hunting for the wattage in all these proposed systems and devices. I don't think Otto is at the stage yet as this will require more work to tame the beast.

I'll get back to you on the other question.

@otto

I found this pdf file while searching on how to do a center tap in my CCs'.

It discusses IC monolithic transformers. It is a long doc but look on page 14.
http://www.nt.tuwien.ac.at/fileadmin/topics/RF_engineering/da/da/kehrer_da.pdf

If you look at a few paragraphs before each design, this will give you a good rundown. This may not be pertinent but the designs are very inspiring.

@all

I still do not have my circuit made as my personal elecrtonic accumen is limited and my brother is very busy these days. Here is an idea.

If one of you have a Paypal account and can find some time to make me the circuit, I would be more then glad to pay for it. I will also look for a decent frequency generator. Everything else I have. Or, if someone here is in the Montreal area and would like to partner up.

I just can't wait to get this going as I have so many side ideas to test out.

I am sure there are others here that have basic skills and the main hardware on hand but lack the circuit. If the circuit was made in multiples, I am sure some here would be glad to pay for it and participate in the R&D effort. This could be a good way to multiply the hands on testing while ensuring that everyone is using the same thing so we can compare apples to apples.

Obviously, the present Otto circuit needs alot of testing to "Erfinderize" it (my new word meaning "to bring into balance"). It has too much power loss, the negative is totally ignored, the frequency is probably injected at the wrong point and there should be a DC current pulsed. But all this can be better shown once I can start some testing on my own so no comment is necessary. I don't want to mix the cards.

@cOmster

I noticed on your video that you have a BK Precision 4003A. Is this good. Do you have three of these? Would I need three of these or is there a unit that can produce three frequencies in one unit.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 24, 2007, 01:23:35 AM
I've taken a stab at simulating the circuit as I posted earlier, with the 3 bifilar coils, and 3 switches.

A single frequency f1 at 40kHz was used, and the results are shown in the pdf.

Notice the component I added at the output? Look at the waveforms in Otto's and Roberto's pdf, and perhaps you'll see why I did this.

Did they use this component also, as there would certainly be portions of the waveforms below the 0 line as well?

Also notice the "artifact" in between the bemf pulses?

Cheers,
Darren

PS. Although it is stated in their pdf that 40kHz was used, it appears to be closer to 55kHz.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 24, 2007, 02:15:59 AM
I've taken a stab at simulating the circuit as I posted earlier, with the 3 bifilar coils, and 3 switches.

A single frequency f1 at 40kHz was used, and the results are shown in the pdf.

Notice the component I added at the output? Look at the waveforms in Otto's and Roberto's pdf, and perhaps you'll see why I did this.

Did they use this component also, as there would certainly be portions of the waveforms below the 0 line as well?

Also notice the "artifact" in between the bemf pulses?

Cheers,
Darren

PS. Although it is stated in their pdf that 40kHz was used, it appears to be closer to 55kHz.

Hi Darren:

Thanks for the simulation results. Is it SPICE?
Anyway, the last Otto post did state that his new simulatioi is based on 55 KHz. (see below)

Chris

Hello all,

Im 4 days at home. Must not go to work. So Im playing with coils.

Today I wanted to know how many turns should have my primary coil of my little transformer. I did a loooot of tests. I spent a lot of hours, cutted my primary coil, measured....result NOTHING!!!!!

The point is: THE DIAMETER AND THE LENGHT OF THE PRIMARY COIL IS NOT IMPORTANT!!!!!

First I had a 12m long coil and pulsed this coil. Signals fine....then shorter and shorter and then I saw it: at a frequency between 50 kHz and 60 kHz I could clearly see SINE WAVES!!!!! This happens at 12m or 2m lenghtof my coil.

Yes, I know what Im wrighting. The lenght and diameter is NOT important. To see sine waves the frequency is important.

This sine waves I saw with a 0,5mm diameter coil even less then 2m long!!! Just 1 frequency and a wire. But I have to say that everything is connected like in a TPU: I have the Mobius and my pulsed MOSFET is on a copper plate arround 5 x 3 cm in dimensions and 1cm thick. Of course I can also see the seeds. They are so little that my scope is in the range of 200mV. Then I can see the seeds.

Dont ask for a picture because my camera is "out of house". The seeds and the sines are the same as in the pdf. Oh, no, not the same because I have no secondary coil. The sines are arround 10 - 15V.
Now, Its clear why we need a secondary coil, or to say it better, why we need a little transformer in our TPU:

In the primary  at 50 - 60kHz sine waves are created and the secondary coil is an amplifier.

Just look at the open TPU. Try to see how many red wired windings you can see.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 24, 2007, 11:40:22 AM
Hello All,

Just dropping by to pass on a quick update. I spent most of Saturday evening planning out and building the MOSFET box to connect to my TPUs. It is setup with three BNC and banana jack signal inputs with switches to connect or disconnect each channel independently. The output of the circuit will come out of some white terminal blocks and also some banana jacks on the other side of the box. The MOSFETs will be mounted in sockets on top of the box for easy replacement.

I attached a photo of what I have so far. I just took the time to solder most of the wires onto the jacks and things but still have to make all the connections so it looks a mess  ;D. More to come soon.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 24, 2007, 05:05:46 PM
Hi all,

finally, not going to sea-side with my family, I succeed in re building the ECD. What you see is a firstpi with a new subassebly containing driver & power MOSFET in order to limit the emitted radiation. The second pic is the ECD unit with only flat-type coils  (is a deviation from Otto' setup...but I wanted to test).

You can appreciate the partial sinus reconstruction. The pieces are juxtapposing each other. The peaks left simply have not been converted for my choose.

I do confirm that is the Seed that stars the conversion process. Each of the RE peaks are converted one by one as the Seed cover them.

I do confirm that the Seed is moved by the lower freq. The higher freq controls the conversion amplitude.

The test were done  so:

+ 8V PS
2 freq in 40-60KHz range
1 transormer only
60W load.
The waveform are probed on PHASE point

Roberto

P.S. I've done also a live footage...but for the moment I can upload as I don't found the correct cable!!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on June 24, 2007, 06:43:36 PM
Excellant mechanical technique, Roberto.
Sleek and to the point. I see you used the teardrop shape to combat the short plastic tubing from folding. I duct taped the ends and wrapped mine around 4 in pvc. Then held it over the electric stove burner. This let me make a complete loop. But your way is better. I also see you went to an even higher gauge wire for your primary for less turns while maintaining mass equivalency. This should exclude some complexity for those wanting to build.
And thanks for the fet driver pic. I see you soldered the coil wire ends in place too. Single layer coils and not bobbin type multi layer windings.

You let the cat out of the bag with this one. There are a ton of short cuts and high exposure of low complexity.
You also show use of low level thermal tubing. Hmmm...

Attached is my latest. Single layer windings, mass equivalent,  low thermal tubing, lamp wire horizontal loops

Keep on truckin' or movimento persistant!

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 24, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
Hi Roberto,

AWESOME TPU/ECD you have there! Also, nice partial sine waves on the collector! I'm going to have to scope across the phase wire next time, I was always looking at the ZERO line which may explain why I didnt see any sinusoids forming. Is your scope probe still connected to the circuit ground when the probe is on the PHASE wire or is the scope ground on the ZERO line?

Also, I see another 14-pin DIP on your circuit board along side the IRF7307, what is it?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 24, 2007, 07:07:53 PM
Hi Roberto,

One other thing looking at your scope shots. I find it quite remarkable that your partial sine wave seems to have a period of about 40 uS, which is only 25 kHz! This is amazing to see considering the extremely short lengths of wire on your TPU! Does the sine wave appear to be the same frequency for all your TPUs or does it, in fact, vary with the coil's circumference? This is a clear sign that there is something else going on than simple coil resonance!

Hopefully I won't be too far behind you in the testing department. There are just so many other life distractions slowing me down.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on June 24, 2007, 07:30:57 PM
Hi Roberto,

One other thing looking at your scope shots. I find it quite remarkable that your partial sine wave seems to have a period of about 40 uS, which is only 25 kHz! This is amazing to see considering the extremely short lengths of wire on your TPU! Does the sine wave appear to be the same frequency for all your TPUs or does it, in fact, vary with the coil's circumference? This is a clear sign that there is something else going on than simple coil resonance!

Hopefully I won't be too far behind you in the testing department. There are just so many other life distractions slowing me down.

God Bless,
Jason O

Tell me about it. Last night was my big chance, and couldn't get it going. I have an inspector coming up tomorrow for the people who are buying our house so I had to pack it all up to pick it up later. Couldn't get my fets to fire. Everything else was fine. dunno.

anyway, it'll prolly be mid next month before I can pick it up again. Ack.

Oh well.

Perhaps changes will take place that will allow me to do this a bit easier in that time.

A lot can happen in a month.

I'll get my TPU wired up, at any rate, and ready for feeding, as I'm sure it will be hungry by then. :)



Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 24, 2007, 09:35:45 PM
@GK,

you are the MAESTRO: your assembly is remarkable..COMPLIMENT! please let me now your tests I'cant wait.

@Rich,

sorry you are not on line ...for the moment I'll wait for you just call me I'll give any help.

@Jason,

so sorry I meant it was clear that the point to probe were PHASE ...that's because of the name!  (it remembers the old electricians looking for phase with the neon screw-driver).

Your efforts are valuable please do continue the MOSFET box building. I followed a simpler way: just a small PCB with 2 drivers on-board.

@Darren,

your SPICE simulation is really nice and useful: if you like I can mesaure the coils parameters in order to make a more correct simulation. Unfortunately for us it cannot take in account the mag fields interactions into Mobius coils. I've also SPICE and have used it extensively in the past, now it is impossible because it will clobber my Notebooks...Hmmm I've to use another computer and reload it (I've PSPICE).


To all,

Hey it is easy! I've sinus conversion with just 1 coil (remember the Otto's 50 turns on two fingers...).  ....DO IT and help with the many coming extensions.




Ciao

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thedane on June 24, 2007, 09:50:56 PM

@Darren,

your SPICE simulation is really nice and useful: if you like I can mesaure the coils parameters in order to make a more correct simulation. Unfortunately for us it cannot take in account the mag fields interactions into Mobius coils. I've also SPICE and have used it extensively in the past, now it is impossible because it will clobber my Notebooks...Hmmm I've to use another computer and reload it (I've PSPICE).

Ciao

Roberto


It is possible to simulate coupling(s) in SPICE/PSPICE - IF you "just" know the right parameters  ;D
The mobius coil should be well described as it was modelled by a mathematician.

There's more interesting info about transformer coupling here:
http://dave.uta.edu/dillon/pspice/pspice06.htm
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 24, 2007, 10:32:45 PM
Hi Roberto,

Yes, your coil parameters would be helpful. I calculated mine and have no idea if I am really that close or not. It would be nice to confirm. I did ask for coil specs from anyone, but none have been posted yet.

@Thedane:

If you look at the circuit I drew in PSPICE, you'll see that I have accounted for and included the coupling between the primary and secondary coils. I even modeled the inductors better by including the self capacitance and the paralell resistance. Without these elements, the model does not work in a realistic manner. The only thing that I did not model, was the inter-coil capacitance between the primary and secondary.

With respect to the mobius loop, I still am not convinced even a little, that it is contributing any special effects or processes in regards to the results that are being observed. Therefore, IMO, it does not need to be modeled. People keep forgetting that the manner in which it is connected in the circuit dos not constitute a coil, whether it be a mobius one or not. It is simply a shorted loop of wire attached to each output terminal as I have drawn in my "otto_roberto_simplified02.pdf" file that was posted.

Sorry Roberto, no disrespect intended.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 24, 2007, 11:57:21 PM
Hi Darren,

I do respect your opinion as well NO PROBLEM. I've had some time the opportunity to observe weird thinghs during my 'technical' life, well I tell you that this ECD deserve an high grade of attention even if at the end is like you correctly said: only 'a coil and a shorted piece of wire' @90 degree. The difference appears to be the presence of the Mobius loop. You can do as I did many, many tests with different setups/design, spending lot of my precious time (months) like the others without obtaining a result, well I mean I succeed  in converting into usable power the RE peaks, or converting the NMR bursts features into some usable power but still well under unity.

I'm a standard college educated so I know and you know, how what we have so hardly learned, well when I saw for the first time IN FRONT OF MY EYES the SINUS FORMING PIECE BY PIECE under my command I almost fall from my chair and get stunned for hours..than days..then I don't know ...ask my wife. I tried, then re-check, then check it again......at the end I convinced myself that really there were something repeteable, deterministic and REAL. 

What to say..I'm still, as you say, incredulous, so if I'm allowed, please DO IT as only if you see with your own eyes  probably you could believe and that's great for all of us help to find the answers we are striving to find.

One final argument: I've tried to take out the smaller Mobius ring - NO WAY to obtain a sign; I tried to increase to 1mt the Mosfet+heath-sink - NO WAY to obtain a sign; I changed the heath sink metal, found that each metal gives a complete different signature (Seed)...so I can tell you what metal is just observing the signature!.. it seems that ECD does absorb particles (?) from every thing near itself till a certain distance.

Hope to to give you soon as many details as possible to help in your simulation model, i believe that this could be very, very intersesting but only finding a way to include the Mobius piece of wire.

Regards

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 25, 2007, 03:48:33 AM
Roberto & Otto:

My take on this is that there is definitely a interesting anomaly currently reproducible by some and has to do with the mobius and maybe affected by materials of some sort, like what you have fully described.

The 'problem' is at this moment is the difficulty for the engineering grade folks like Darren and others to be convinced unless there is reproducible documentation on how the power is measured on the Input/Ouput. And this request is certainly good as far as engineering proofs are concerned.

So, are we able to go this extra mile, especially those who can reproduce the sinus, seed etc. Unfortunately, that will require electrical engineering personnel with solid experience in test measurements and having good test equipment too!

I sure hope I can find some time next month to start this process, since I got the scope from Tishatang last week!

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 25, 2007, 04:14:11 AM
HI All,

I finally finished my MOSFET box. It took me a lot longer than I expected with all the soldering and snipping of wires. I attached some photos of it below. Hopefully I'll find some time this week to connect it up to my TPU this week and continue testing with my harmonic pulse board.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Gustav22 on June 25, 2007, 11:51:47 AM
@Jdo300 and all

When Otto holds a standard "mains tester" aka "Test light" to point PHASE, the neon lamp in the mains tester lights up.
If he holds it to point ZERO it does not light.
This is why he named the respective points "Phase" and "Zero". These are the two points with the max. difference in potential - needed to power the load.

In Europe these mains testers come as screw drivers and you can see one here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasenpr%C3%BCfer
and this is exactly the tool Otto uses.

If the mains tester lights on both points (Phase & Zero) or if it does not light at any of the two he knows that the currently used pulsing frequencies are not the ideal ones.

If the above explanation is faulty Otto and or Roberto will correct me.

@Roberto,

I have a few questions and some thoughts.

First the questions:
In the pic of your ECD I see 1 CC (transformer) made from wire with red insulation coating.
- Is this wire with red insulation coating the primary of the CC?
- If the answer is "yes" where did you hide the secondary windings?
;-)

Do your primary and secondary windings have equal mass/weight/volume or do you think this is not important?

Now my thoughts:
Otto and you seem to agree on the fact, that the CCs are acting as transformers.
N.Tesla has a patent 593,138 on an Electrical Transformer in which primary and secondary are linked/coupled just as in the CCs of the ECD (a quite extraordinary feature).

What is special about this patent apart from the connection between primary and secondary?
Well I think the most important quote from this patent is:
Quote from: Tesla's patent 593,138
“If the rate at which a current traverses the circuit, including the coil, be one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles per second, then a frequency of nine hundred and twenty-five  per second would maintain nine hundred and twenty-five stationary waves in a circuit one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles long, and each wave would be two hundred miles in length.  For such a frequency I should use a secondary fifty miles in length, so that at one terminal the potential would be zero and at the other maximum."

Here Tesla says, that the length of his secondary winding should be exactly 1/4 (a quarter) wavelength of the signal.
Quote from: Tesla's patent 593,138
... so that at one terminal the potential would be zero and at the other maximum

It is my opinion, that the wavelength/frequency of the signal in the Möbius collector loops is such, that a standing wave is formed in each loop. This is why the length of the collector loops are so critical (total length of collector comes to 79.79 cm based on diameter 4" + diameter 6").

And it also is my opinion that the secondary of the CCs/transformers should be just as in Tesla's transformer patent, i.e. a quarter wavelength long.

Now obviously the  problem is to know the correct frequency to calculate the quarter wavelength.
But if I calculate with 26,5 MHz
http://www.chimorg.unifi.it/~chimichi/Cu.html
and a signal propagation speed of 2/3 light speed in copper, the wavelength I get is ca. 7.7 m and so a quarter wavelength comes to ca. 1.9 m as optimum length of the CC secondary.

edit: anybody apart from me notice the relation between 7.7 m (my calculation) and the 0.7979 m collector length?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 25, 2007, 12:33:37 PM
Hi Gustav,

Very good observations! I've been thinking that for a long time already. Why?
Because SM stated in the very beginning already it is like a hose filled with water. You can move the water by picking up one side and moving it along the length of it. That description can very well descrive a quarter wavelength standing wave!!

So it migth be that we have to rotate this standing wave because he says we have to move it along the length of it.

regards

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 25, 2007, 02:15:56 PM
   And if your frequency was not quite on target, then it would appear from a standing point to be passing by.

   Just did a test of a twin coil with each frequency originating from opposite ends. Input about 12 p/p on each. Output to scope > 250. Alas, no power tho. Bulb load killed it completely to a 90 degree coil. Resonant point about 350k. Same direction, nada.

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 25, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
@ Gustav22
I believe you are absolutely right.  This is how the diameter of the collectors is directly related to the frequency and vice versa.  The tech name for this is called directivity.  I posted about it on my thread sometime ago.  It is a weird mathamatical formula, because you have to know the frequency to determine the wavelength as well as the circumference.  It is used for loud speaker design.

   And if your frequency was not quite on target, then it would appear from a standing point to be passing by.

   Just did a test of a twin coil with each frequency originating from opposite ends. Input about 12 p/p on each. Output to scope > 250. Alas, no power tho. Bulb load killed it completely to a 90 degree coil. Resonant point about 350k. Same direction, nada.

sugra


@ EVERYONE
I would add, and please correct me Sugra if I am wrong, but the opposing signal was from a SECOND SOURCE.  A second generator.  SAME source opposing signals will NOT work.  This is the secret.  PLEASE see my last post on my thread for details.  Read it until you understand.  Also read BEP's and Sugra's last post on my thread.

Thank you for your time,

Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 25, 2007, 04:47:57 PM
@Gustav22,

1 - YES, the secundary coil is under the primary (the red coil).

2 - I checked your math and it is correct. The reason why the secundary is just over 9 m (in Otto's design) is only for gain an additional signal onto the 2 rings (1:2 ratio) and because Otto found more power with said lenght.

3 - I find it interesting to cut secundary coil to 7.7 m just to stay in full wave resonance with Cu and in order to have still a good ratio may be useful to cut primary to 1.9 m. (note that I've exchanged primary with secundary..I don't know if this may be done).

As I've to wind the second ECD CC I'll follow the suggestion. Let's see it in action.

Actually I'm thinking that this type of standard math about resonance & standing wave conditions are not so important as the coils are excited by many frequencies all together...it isn't absolutely the case of 1 freq only! so why privilege a single freq?  On the contrary in my personal opinion the coil should be of wide-band  kind just to easier the frequencies forming! (please think that the formed sinus is @50 KHZ). Again the actual CC (as in my paper) do show a bandwidht of less than 80 KHz...a possible scenario could be that of study one of the many coil construction alternatives that may lead to lessen the stray intrinsic capacitance and so widen the bandwidth.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 25, 2007, 06:04:58 PM
@Btenzer:
   That is correct, that was two seperate gens running using only the positive lead from each. No grounds were hooked up. I have been trying to figure out how to achive some sort of terminating point for each signal with out using the grounds. Not sure how I would do it.
   If and when I get my fet drives in the mail, I will be trying that again with really short pulse durations. Then I will see if that output has any power asociated to it. Laterz

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 25, 2007, 07:12:46 PM
@Btenzer:
   That is correct, that was two seperate gens running using only the positive lead from each. No grounds were hooked up. I have been trying to figure out how to achive some sort of terminating point for each signal with out using the grounds. Not sure how I would do it.
   If and when I get my fet drives in the mail, I will be trying that again with really short pulse durations. Then I will see if that output has any power asociated to it. Laterz

@ Sugra
I would bet the farm that it will! 

@ Everyone working on the ECD
If you want to see power, TAP into the bottom big coil of the ECD from a control coil, with Roberto's Mosfet, driver setup, and signal generator.  Next TAP into the smaller loop, from a control coil with IDENTICAL signal, but different source, ie..signal gen, Mosfet, Driver.  Tap into the smaller loop so that those signals will be sent in direct opposition of the others.  BE SAFE!  ;)

The next experiment would be identical with two frequencies, and then three!!

Happy Days!
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 25, 2007, 08:02:46 PM
@Darren,

hi, here are the measures done on my 6" ECD equipped with CC as per my TPU=ECD doc:

- Primary - R=0.5Ohm, L= 15nH

- Secondary - R=3Ohm, L=0.23mH

-Primary/Secondary intercapacitance = 485pf

-Mobius interwire capacitance = 74pf

It would be interesting to insert them on your model and compare the results!

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 26, 2007, 12:56:17 AM
Hi,
The DDS 20 kits (x 2) arrived today.
Easier to build than I first thought, they have already added all the surface mouted components, not much of a challenge is it.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/dds20_kit.jpg (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/dds20_kit.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/dds20_kit.jpg)

Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 26, 2007, 01:35:53 AM
@meggerman

Thank you for posting the DDS-20 kit. I sure would love to see your kit running. Please let us know if the output driver will drive the Control Coils directly or do you still need special fast switching output drivers?

Also, are you in Europe or the UK where you can buy these parts. Apparently there is no distributor in the US.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 26, 2007, 03:10:21 AM
@Darren,

hi, here are the measures done on my 6" ECD equipped with CC as per my TPU=ECD doc:

- Primary - R=0.5Ohm, L= 15nH

- Secondary - R=3Ohm, L=0.23mH

-Primary/Secondary intercapacitance = 485pf

-Mobius interwire capacitance = 74pf

It would be interesting to insert them on your model and compare the results!

Roberto

WOW, Roberto!

Something doesn't look right.

Your document shows:
- 10.5 meters of 0.35mm wire for SECONDARY
- 4.2 meters of 0.5mm wire for PRIMARY

The closest I was able to match with AWG is:

#24 = 0.5106mm compared to 0.5mm and
#27 = 0.3606mm compared to 0.35mm

(So worst case match here is 3% error.)


Because the secondary length of wire is only about 2x the length of the primary, the secondary inductance should only be about 4x the inductance of the primary.

With the numbers you gave above for inductance, the secondary inductance is over 15,000 x higher than the primary !!  :o Perhaps the 15nH is supposed to be 15uH ??

Could you please double check your measurements ?

Thank you.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 26, 2007, 03:34:17 AM
Roberto,

Perhaps if you'd like to and have time, could you measure the inductance and resistance of your warm or hot bulb as well?

This way we will have a better model.  :)

Cheers,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 26, 2007, 04:39:52 AM
Hello All,

Here's another update for you. I took some time today to verify that my MOSFET box and harmonic circuit are working well together. After removing the capacitors in parallel with the MOSFET driver output.

With a 100 MHz scope digital scope from school, I clearly measured a rise time of 20 ns! when my driver circuit was powering a small 1:1 transformer as a load. Also, the BEMF spikes that resulted were extremely tall! I measured peak to peak voltages of 550V+! This was with  the primary pulsed with 6V @ 2A (the resistance of the transformer primary is only 0.6 Ohms). I always use the same little transformer to test all of my circuits but this time something different happened. I was actually able to cause High voltage hash to ring from the computer speakers of a PC nearby in the room, and when I connected the scope probe and ground to the secondary coil, the transmitted RF hash from the transformer shut of the computer's USB connections! Previously I had only witnessed this effect when testing my TPU so I can testify that the rise time was the significant difference in this instance!

Now that my harmonic circuit is all ready to go, I focused on preparing my ECD and TPU V7.0 which I have yet to test. My TPU (also pictured here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg31804.html#msg31804).

I am still a fan of the Tesla RE effects in the TPU. Each of my control coils are wound with 200ft of 30 gauge magnet wire with a total resistance of 22.7 Ohms. The coils are wound in bobbins intentionally to greatly increase the coil inductance. When I measured the L of one, it came out to be a whopping 2 mH! There are more details of this TPU that I will share but I'll keep it minimal here since this thread is devoted to the ECD. If I get positive results with it, I will start a new thread with details.

I will be testing it along with my ECD.

Attached is a screenshot of the open circuit pulse output of my circuit across the secondary of the test transformer. Also attached is a photo of my completed test setup. All I need to do now Is make the BNC cables to connect my control board to the MOSFET box and I'll be ready to begin testing.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 07:16:37 AM
Hi Jason,

at the end you now have my same BEMF results!...so take care of your Mosfets as they are rated only 500V!....often, on PHASE side I measured about 900V  (there will be special...conditions).  So now you understand how easy will be puncturing effect from Drain to Gate.  When this happen you will loose the fet driver also. The funny thing is that the MOSFET itself does appear apparently to work  (this is because the puncturing is microscopic and has for itself a cospicuos resistance)...but it does not  (so no Seed- no way i LOST THERE LOT OF TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE DEVICE WERER NOT OPERATING!). So if you put your probe on power MOSFET's Gate you will see in correspondence of the BEMF a 50-70V spike  that in turn will led to mosfet's driver failure.

I did a movie on my test (87 MB) but I've been unable to upload it either here or trough standard e-mail. May be Stefan will suggest a way?.

Roberto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 07:21:28 AM
@Darren,

yes it's probably a typo...sorry. For sure I'll double check it today and let you know. Of course I'll measure the bulb hot & warm resistance, please specify how you want me to measure it's capacitance: do you mean against ground?

For the Mobius I could also measure its capacitance between the two wires and against the ground...what do you suggest?

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 07:54:18 AM
@Darren,

here are the correct values:

Prymary: 0.023 mH
Secundary: 0.22mH

Cold bulb Resistance = 59.6 Ohm
Hot bulb Resistance = 420 Ohm  (similar light emission)

regards

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 26, 2007, 08:57:51 AM
Hello all,

the last 4 days I didnt work at my workplace so I had a lot of time for my new tests.

I was always talking about my not soooo good controls. I did hundreds of tests.

I will be extreme short.

My control coils:

primary: 3.17m lenght, 0,5mm wire diameter
secondary: 16m lenght, 0,35mm wire diameter.

Control coil design:

1 primary coil
2 (TWO) secondary coils

All 3 coils wound at the same time (TOGETHER) NOT TWISTED!!!!

Controls 1" in lenght as in the pdf. Everything connected like in the pdf. I mean, Im using in this case only 1 control coil but pulsed with 3 frequencies.
In such a setup I have 1 16m long secondary doing nothing. With my indicator I saw a veeery strong "phase" on 1 end of my "free" coil and a "zero" on the other end of my coil. It was logic to connect my bulb to this free secondary coil.
Result: a nice shining 100W bulb.
In this way I have separated my load from the rest of the TPU.
 In this way I have a veeery strong "phase" WITH A LOAD connected.
In this way I have almost a clear sinus wave measured on my bulb.

With my super scope ( Thanks Roberto and Gustav22, again) I measured the frequency mix: 170kHz - 190kHz.
When I tune veeeery slowly I can clearly hear a huuuummmm. Frequency mix: 178kHz!!!

Again in short:

Control coil with 1 primary and TWO secondaries.
Everything connected like in the pdf but the bulb connected to the "free" secondary, or to say it better, to the 2. secondary of the control coil.

I have to mention that this coil lenghts are made for a 6" TPU but Im using this control coil in a 15" TPU because there is a lot of heat, sometimes it happens I toch a wire...

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 26, 2007, 09:07:10 AM
Hi Otto:

Great! Are you saying the 100W is decoupled from the input and is just connected across the floating secondary with no DC path to zero? If this is the case, is it possible to measure the current with a series ammeter through the floating secondary?

Regards

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 26, 2007, 09:19:31 AM
Hello all,

@chrisC

exactly. But to measure the current would be a problem. The frequency is too high and my analog meter would not be a good idea. Anyway I will try it.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 26, 2007, 10:14:56 AM
Hello all,

@chrisC

exactly. But to measure the current would be a problem. The frequency is too high and my analog meter would not be a good idea. Anyway I will try it.

Otto


@ Otto

You need to measure the current on the input side with proper filtering. Measuring high frequency complex waveforms with either a digital or analogue meter is a no no!

This issue has been raised over and over again on this forum. I asked earlier if you intended to carry out proper measurements on the input side of your system using a battery as the power source. Can you confirm that you intend to do this and report the results?

Regards
Clive
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 26, 2007, 10:20:54 AM
Hello all,

@Clive,

I can only say that I cant exact measure the amps because I havent the needed equipment.
Of course, its totally clear that with my analog meter I cant measure the input and output power.

I will ask Roberto if he can make this job. I hope he has such meters and a battery.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 10:25:30 AM
Hi all,

please find here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SIL3B8KL

The ECD movie named filmato.wmw (87 MByte)

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 26, 2007, 10:38:23 AM
Ronotte:

The video can't be downloaded. It says something like 'error' in Italian. Maybe it's too large?

Thanks anyway.

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: SwinG on June 26, 2007, 10:51:19 AM
Ronotte:

The video can't be downloaded. It says something like 'error' in Italian. Maybe it's too large?

Thanks anyway.

chrisC

Just copy this into your browser address line: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SIL3B8KL

swing
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 11:40:10 AM
Hi all,

Please do use this link ..it's  OK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLwdLRoRMAo

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dutchy1966 on June 26, 2007, 01:15:18 PM
Hello all,

@Clive,

I can only say that I cant exact measure the amps because I havent the needed equipment.
Of course, its totally clear that with my analog meter I cant measure the input and output power.

I will ask Roberto if he can make this job. I hope he has such meters and a battery.

Otto

Hi Otto,

I would think it must be possible to measure the input current in the 230 Volt leading to your power supply (the mains current). This would give an indication of the total power consumed by your setup.
You know the mains is 220/230 V, so only need to put an amp meter in series BEFORE your power supply.....

Funny to hear you measure the frequwncy at around 178-180 Khz as that is being said to be the native frequency of magnetism.... (Cohler etc.)

regards

Robert
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 01:31:47 PM
Hello Otto,

it happens that in my new 6" ECD I have a parallel wind secundary (actually I have 2 secundarys). Till now I have not had time to probe it to see what's on it. I'll do it this evening. Of course the secondary is according the previous specs.....but let's see..
I'll report of course the results.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 26, 2007, 01:51:51 PM
Hello all,

@Dutchy

yes, I can try to measure the amps from my mains but I have to tune a little my frequency because of my huuuum noise. I dont know if this nois is from my loudspeasker in the radio or from my power supply. I had no time to see whats going on with my newest setup.

@Roberto

If you have 2 secondaries try what I sayd: everything connected as usual exept the bulb. This bulb connect to the second secondary and see with your scope the sine waves. Make a good frequency mix and when the bulb shines measure the frequency. It should be at arround 170 - 190kHz.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 26, 2007, 01:54:15 PM
@Chrisc
Thank you for posting the DDS-20 kit. I sure would love to see your kit running. Please let us know if the output driver will drive the Control Coils directly or do you still need special fast switching output drivers?

Also, are you in Europe or the UK where you can buy these parts. Apparently there is no distributor in the US.

No, it needs to drive a mosfet driver then mosfet.
I tried to drive the mosfet directly but I think it overloads the output stage and it shuts down at the higher frequencies, say 5MHz.

Yes, I am in the UK, the kit was purchased from ELV in Germany, you should be able to order it for the US too.
http://shop.elv.de
Search for DDS 20 or 6847138
The kit does not include the AD811 so you can buy that from them or like I am doing, buy it from somewhere cheaper.
Its an easy kit to build and if you do decide to go for it I can help out if you get problems.
I have translated most of the manual now in English.
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 26, 2007, 02:41:22 PM
@Darren,

yes it's probably a typo...sorry. For sure I'll double check it today and let you know. Of course I'll measure the bulb hot & warm resistance, please specify how you want me to measure it's capacitance: do you mean against ground?

For the Mobius I could also measure its capacitance between the two wires and against the ground...what do you suggest?

Roberto

Quote
@Darren,

here are the correct values:

Prymary: 0.023 mH
Secundary: 0.22mH

Cold bulb Resistance = 59.6 Ohm
Hot bulb Resistance = 420 Ohm  (similar light emission)

regards

Roberto

Thanks Roberto.

So to summarize and collect all info:

Primary: 0.5mm wire (24 AWG), 23uH, 0.5 Ohm, 4.2m

Secondary: 0.35mm wire (27 AWG), 220uH, 3 Ohm, 10.5m

Bulb: 60W, 230V
Bulb resistance Cold: 59.6 Ohm
Bulb resistance Hot: 420 Ohm (when operating in the ECD?)

Inter-coil capacitance: 485pF

Mobius inter-loop capacitance: 74pF

So if you can measure any inductance in the bulb, that would be great. If it is too small to measure, then that is ok too.

IMO, the capacitance contributed by the bulb between ZERO and PHASE should be extremely small. Let's not bother with that. The only way I know to measure it anyway, would be to see the bulb's self-resonant frequency, then calculate the C value from the known L (if it can be measured).

Thank you for the mobius and inter-coil capacitances. I will be incorporating them in the model.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on June 26, 2007, 06:24:15 PM
Hello all,

@Clive,

I can only say that I cant exact measure the amps because I havent the needed equipment.
Of course, its totally clear that with my analog meter I cant measure the input and output power.

I will ask Roberto if he can make this job. I hope he has such meters and a battery.

Otto

If you cannot measure estimate the input power, then how do you know what you what energy you are converting with your TPU?

You only need a 12V battery, an analoque meter, and a pi filter comprising of an inductor and two caps. Roberto should be able to set this up easily.

Clive
Title: USB DDS
Post by: Earl on June 26, 2007, 06:25:07 PM
Hi All,

if you do not need a stand-alone DDS oscillator, for the same price you can buy a MUCH higher frequency DDS oscillator for the USB port, controlled by software.  See my post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg35477.html#msg35477

Regards, Earl

@Chrisc
Thank you for posting the DDS-20 kit. I sure would love to see your kit running. Please let us know if the output driver will drive the Control Coils directly or do you still need special fast switching output drivers?

Also, are you in Europe or the UK where you can buy these parts. Apparently there is no distributor in the US.

No, it needs to drive a mosfet driver then mosfet.
I tried to drive the mosfet directly but I think it overloads the output stage and it shuts down at the higher frequencies, say 5MHz.

Yes, I am in the UK, the kit was purchased from ELV in Germany, you should be able to order it for the US too.
http://shop.elv.de
Search for DDS 20 or 6847138
The kit does not include the AD811 so you can buy that from them or like I am doing, buy it from somewhere cheaper.
Its an easy kit to build and if you do decide to go for it I can help out if you get problems.
I have translated most of the manual now in English.
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on June 26, 2007, 06:34:53 PM
Rob:
Thanks for the pointers on the DDS-20. I'll keep that in mind.

Earl:
Thanks too for the USB software DDS generator. Is there any 'protection' from spurious reverse electrical discharge back into the laptop, especially when we are trying to create these potentially high voltages?

I remembered seeing something from Jason about his USB ports 'froze' under certain conditions. can't remember exactly. Otherwise, I think this USB solution is great. I presume that little board takes in a secondary voltage from an external source. Will read the specs. later today.

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Earl on June 26, 2007, 08:20:47 PM
Chris,

will draw up a schematic to protect DDS from external spikes, maybe I have time tonight?

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 26, 2007, 09:49:08 PM
@Chrisc,
Earl's device costs the equivalent of 75 EUR and the one from ELV is 61 EUR and is self contained.
I suspect the 85MHz is way over what you are going to need and even 5MHz is probably overkill.
There is something to be said about having individual bits of isolated test equipment.

One idea  have been toying with is to have the dds generator inside the TPU and have an infra-red link to a controller board some many feet away.
Because I could be here for ever more designing a DDS function generator to work with a PIC chip I have opted to buy kits instead.
Why re-invent the wheel yet, that can come once the TPU is up and self running.
 ;)
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 26, 2007, 10:13:19 PM
Hello Otto,

I've connected my already existing second secundary to 60W bulb as you suggested. Well I did obtained light but not so much and at lower freq than you suggested: about 60-70 KHz and anyway little effect for the third freq.

Then I thought to implement  the second CC  exactly as per your new specs and tried to connect it to 120 degree tap on collector. I did it but found only impulsive kind of waveforms, no way to get sinus. So I disconnected the tap and reconnected it to standard ZERO & PHASE. OK this time I found exactly what you said:

 - good light on bulb

- F1 = 165KHz, F2=160 KHz, F3 variable from 20-34 KHz

- sinus present, about 50% completed


Anyway I noted that:

1 - the sinus is very good only with 2 freqs

2 - inserting the 3rd freq you obtain some more power but the waveform does deteriorate a lot

3 - the amper meter on PS read about 2A @ 9V. The P.S. itself is less tampered by the ECD. On sweet point the voltage analog meter doe shoe the correct voltage ...same for current.

4- As I've used copper enameled wire of 0.5 and 0.165 mm, the CC gets hot especially when outside the proper freq range...and it takes a lot of time to cool again.

Final note.
As you have noted the sweet point 160 and 165 KHz gives exactly the famous or infamous SM 5Khz. And maximum output is exactly when the F2-F1=5KHz! + - 0.5Hz.

The comparison with the first CC still in his first place (near the Mobius beginning) is difficult as the standard design does permit:

-  much more accurate sinus formation control

- quality of sinus is much more better!

- the input current required is higher (about 4A)


On the other side the isolated connection of the bulb is highly reccomended...so I think that there is still much unexplorated ground. I hope that also the other that are replicating the ECD will contribute to clear the way.

Ciao

Roberto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 27, 2007, 06:09:45 AM
@Ronotte and all that may be interested.

I did a new sim on Otto's and Roberto's circuit as per their document, and Roberto's coil specs. The results are shown in the attached pdf.

I used a very small inductance for the bulb, and showed scope shots with and without an output diode.

A single frequency f1 at 55kHz was used. Results are quite different than sim01.

Let me know if there's anything you want changed or that you would like me to try.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 27, 2007, 09:01:32 AM
Hi Darren,

it's very interesting, now I can see that the waveform on pulse leading edge is similar to that ECD. Just in order to be able to compare the results could you please run the following tests?:

- 1 coil 1 freq (ok 55KHz).. In this situation you should see no sinus trace, jus bursts of RE
-1 coil 2 freq (55KHz, 60 KHz)...In this situation you should see a complete different burst of RE: the peaks are summing up and on ZERO point only you should see the piece of sinus appearing at 50KHz.

I forgot to say that generally I put scope probe on ZERO and PHASE (scope ground is to PS ground) and please in all the tests take out for the moment the diode as the load is always direct connected.

Thanks very much

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: duff on June 27, 2007, 11:26:17 AM
.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Thaelin on June 27, 2007, 11:53:02 AM
@ Jason:
   This is actually not really related here but then it is. I am so taken with the scope that you have in the background that I would love to know who makes it and the specific model number. I am in the market for a new one and want a good one to boot. Thanks

sugra
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 27, 2007, 02:37:29 PM
Hi Darren,

it's very interesting, now I can see that the waveform on pulse leading edge is similar to that ECD. Just in order to be able to compare the results could you please run the following tests?:

- 1 coil 1 freq (ok 55KHz).. In this situation you should see no sinus trace, jus bursts of RE
-1 coil 2 freq (55KHz, 60 KHz)...In this situation you should see a complete different burst of RE: the peaks are summing up and on ZERO point only you should see the piece of sinus appearing at 50KHz.

I forgot to say that generally I put scope probe on ZERO and PHASE (scope ground is to PS ground) and please in all the tests take out for the moment the diode as the load is always direct connected.

Thanks very much

Roberto

No problem, I'll run these tests and include all PSpice info as well.

Just to clarify though, I want to be sure what you want me to do.

When you say one coil, do you want me to disconnect the other two coils from the circuit?

When you say one coil, 2 frequencies, am I to use 2 switches in parallel and drive one switch at 55kHz, and one switch at 60kHz?

So when you scope the ECD, you always have your scope ground on PS ground, and then you either scope the ZERO or PHASE terminals? If so, that should change things. I always assumed you were scoping across the bulb. Please clarify.

Note that the way I am scoping in the sim is across the bulb. It is a differential measurement.

Attached here is the PSpice netlist, .cir files etc.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 27, 2007, 05:06:50 PM
@Darren,

1 - Yes, the other 2 coils must be disconnected. This makes the comparison much more easy. Note: the situation with 3 coils & 3 freqs are too much complex (...for scope trigger also).

2 - Yes, exactly so: use 2 switches in parallel and drive one switch at 55kHz, and one switch at 60kHz.

3 - When I scope the ECD I always have my scope ground on P.S. ground, and then either scope the ZERO or PHASE terminals or both .....I can also scope differentially the 2 points...(without connecting the scope ground).

Darren, I thank you so much that kind of simulation, it may shed some light on ECD scenario.

Roberto


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 27, 2007, 05:11:29 PM
@Darren,

forgot to say that this is just the initial simulation. I'm thinking, if you have time and want to follow me, to drive you step by step (following my real operations) into obtaining the features I observed: Seed, Peak's conversion, sinus appearing, etc

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 27, 2007, 06:08:42 PM
OK Roberto, thanks for the confirmation...and you're welcome.

I'll run some tests tonight (10am here at the moment).

I'm going to try and run some sinusoidal frequency sweeps also to see if I can find any sweet spots and resonances.

Unfortunately, at the moment I don't know how to do frequency sweeps with this sim square generator, or even if it is possible.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 27, 2007, 11:27:55 PM
Hi all interested to ECD,

what it follows is the test report for the new Otto's CC design.

The new transformer has been built and set on my test-ECD in order to be able to make any kind of test. Said ECD is for test purposes only and anyone can ask me to do tests. Please remember that this run is with ONLY the new CC energized.

Roberto

PS: I forgot to say that in pdf the voltage swing on load is always ranging from 200 to 500V and in pic2292 and Pic2294 you can see the Seed very well.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 27, 2007, 11:59:54 PM
Hi Roberto,
well done.
What does your power supply exactly read as the
used voltage and current.
Better use a 100 nF foil cap directly across the power supply output plug pins
so the RF pulses will not influence the power supply.
also an iron or ferrite core wired around your red and blue supply cables
could work as choke lowpass shield versus your power supply.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on June 28, 2007, 02:07:46 AM
Here is a first movie of Roberto,
just showing his measurement TPU-ECD setup.
Not yet lighting the bulb:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SIL3B8KL

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 28, 2007, 05:40:15 AM
Before moving on to Roberto's suggested test with the simulation, I wanted to see what the current circuit looked like by scoping only the "ZERO" terminal.

F1 was 55kHz as before. See below for scopeshot.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 28, 2007, 07:31:38 AM
I've now run the test Roberto requested.

One CC only, switched by 55kHz and 60kHz simultaneously.

Output is taken off the ZERO terminal.

Roberto, not sure if this is what you were expecting, but it doesn't look too unusual.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 28, 2007, 07:33:43 AM
Hello all,

@Roberto

well done. Have you tried to connect another control coil?? I think not because you cant do it!!!
Im working now on a 15" TPU. I made new collectors for this TPU.

When I pulse this "TPU", the bulb is shining very nice but the problem is to connect other controls because it CAN NOT be done.

My newest crazy idea is to make 3 Mobius for 3 frequencies and on each Mobius is on the 15" ring a control coil. In this way I have 3 outputs and then I want to pulse them with the needed frequencies. I dont know what will happen but as I already made the collectors its only a few minutes work to connect everything.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 28, 2007, 08:13:32 AM
Hello Otto,

Just a quick question.  I read earlier that you added another secondary coil, and used this through induction to light the 100 watt bulb.

Have you tried doing the identical same thing with the other two control coils, and then take these three addtional secondaries and tie them together either in series, or parallel or both for a combined output?

Thank you,
Bruce

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: abassign on June 28, 2007, 08:37:59 AM
Salve Otto & Roberto,

I am noticing, with worry, like is increasing the complexity of apparatus TPU. The operation principle cannot be searched through the greater complexity, but only through a careful analysis of the elements that have competition to the brust of energy, that you found, like I read in the main document.

You are trying to comprise a physical phenomenon, not been planning a Microsfot software  :) , physics does not go towards the complexity, but towards the maximum simplification.

For example, I noticed that the TPU-ECD device is similar that one constructed from Cooler, the skema as ring, the windings etc. If the experiment of Hans Coler ( http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3752/hcoler1.htm) is not a fake, your experiment have many similar things.

Ciao
Adriano
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on June 28, 2007, 08:54:54 AM
Hello all,

@Bruce

I tried really hard to connect the other 2 controls but its IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

The current from the power supply jumps, the light is lower, a lot of problems.

This IS the reason I builded 3 Mobius collectors in the hope to connect then my collectors and controls somehow and then have the combined output.
And what Im doing is logical because to have a self runner we have to feed back a tini bit of the output power back to the input. In this way its possible.

@Adriano,

dont worry, Colers Patent is NOT a fake. It has just to be understand.

In my oppinion is the TPU not sooo complex. Just a few coils and collectors. Hmmm...

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 28, 2007, 09:13:15 AM
Hello all,

@Otto,
you are right, I've still not tried to put the output secundaries in series or parallel but as this's interesting I'll try it this evening. Please let us be updated about your triple big-eye advancing.

@Darren,
 - first simulation step of course is OK but just to check all the standard stuff.

- second step, not so standard, with 2 freqs is to verify that now the peaks are summing up like in the two pics you find attached. That's very IMPORTANT. Please check it also varing the freq i.e. 1st & 2nd harmonic. Now I've not time but soon I'll give you the exact test freq to set in the model.

Roberto


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 28, 2007, 01:38:12 PM
@ronotte and @otto

I have just purchased a BK Precision function generator off of Ebay and I have another one in sight. Also, I have now secured someone who will be making the circuits plus a host of other control circuits that I am presently writing the logic requirements.

This will enable me to do alot more testing in many other ways than the present design proposes. I can't wait.

I have a few questions, mind you that yes I am an electro-nyophite, but these questions would assist me in better understanding certain reasons around Otto's circuit.

1) Does the mosfet adversly affect the quality of the frequency coming from the frequency generator? Have you scoped the frequency before and right after the mosfet to see any difference in the purity?

2) Can the frequency leaving the mosfet/driver be directed to the positive side of the primaries instead of the negative side?

3) Can you explain the reason why you are using the mosfets and the driver or how the mosfet and driver are being used in this circuit.

4) Can the frequency be directed to a loop that is not connected to any other wires or power source, without the mosfet/driver. Just a straight frequency fed to a closed loop ring or mobius.

I am attaching a diagram I have been working on since two weeks now, running along the ECD general set-up but with a twist. The power in, load and frequencies can all be on separate lines. Also the load and frequencies can be switched around so you can try sending F1/F2 into the rings and load off the secondaries. The short at T1 can be timed to disrupt power before the current gets to the coil end. I am not sure but maybe a zener diode can be used at T1 to create a short. When the short occurs, power goes to zero, so the zener starts over and over.

I don't think the frequency is sent into the DC circuit at all since it results in dumping most of the power to ground. I think it is used to create a vibrating magnetic field, trying to make it more dense to capture maximum ether. A frequency is already a form of pulse. There is no point pulsing it as well. But you should pulse the dc to create maximum collapsing fields. The short is Erfinders style setup but this can be done in other ways.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 28, 2007, 02:32:07 PM
@Wattsup,
You need the mosfet driver because it has a very low input capacitance where a mosfet has a very high input capacitance.
This may not sound like a problem but image your mosfet as being an empty bucket and your mosfet driver is a tea cup.
You can turn on the tap and fill your tea cup up very quickly but filling up your bucket means waiting a long time.
If you turn your tap on too fast the water board company (function generator) complain that you are using your water too fast and cut you off (output stage overheats and shuts down).

@Roberto,
I finished building my first DDS 20 kit last night.  When you come to solder the metal RF screening can in place make sure you do not have the LCD display and rotary encoder soldered in as it is difficult to get at the corners of the RF screen.
When you start the DDS 20 up for the first time make sure that you press the "mode/save" button for more than 5 seconds to enter the setup.
You can then just accept the defaults and the DDS chip will then start working.
You can take the sine wave off the middle leg of the potentiometer R6 or pin 3 of the AD811 socket (IC7).
1V pk-pk.
AD811 gives you a true sine wave (+ve and -ve) but we do not require this (I don't think)

@All,
Next step is to order some divide by 'n', counter and maybe a ripple counter ICs.
This allows you to have 3 harmonic frequencies of say 1-4-7 all in sync.
Plus you only need one master function generator. (Shame I bought 3.... :( dohhh!)

I found a divide by 'n' with dual BCD inputs so this can be connected to 2 of 10 ways rotary switch to give you a division of 2 to 99.
MC14569
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/16766.pdf (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/16766.pdf)

Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 28, 2007, 02:50:10 PM
Rob,

If you want to generate fundamental, first and second harmonics, you are going to require a divide by 1.5.

That's why I posted my circuit a while back.

A divide by integers only circuit will not do this I think.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 28, 2007, 03:32:14 PM
@Darren,
If you want to generate fundamental, first and second harmonics, you are going to require a divide by 1.5.

Thats easy, double the master clock frequency and do a divide by 3.
You just need to multiply up all the divisors to integers then use the divide by whole numbers, much easier and a lot more flexible I think you'll agree.
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 28, 2007, 03:58:32 PM
@Darren, Rob,

I agree Rob: that's the normal way I followed some time ago and it is valid. Thanks also for your building info about DDS20, hope you will send me your English translation ...when completed! Please find attached a design I made few days ago for freq generation it may be of interest for all.

Darren, the 3 freq are important and should be simulated. I'll give you the correct numbers...but have to reconnect firstly the original ECD to be congruent.

Please take also in account that in actual operation it make sense to set up the oscillators as follows (for standard ECD as per doc TPU=ECD):

F1 in a range 10-40 KHz
F2, F3 in range 100 - 240 KHz set up as 1st and second harmonic, for example 50 and 100KHz synched)

The F1 job is just that of controlling the Seed so it may be asinchronous. Of course if the transition points of this signal are synched as well ....the better.

Roberto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 28, 2007, 04:21:06 PM
@Darren,
If you want to generate fundamental, first and second harmonics, you are going to require a divide by 1.5.

Thats easy, double the master clock frequency and do a divide by 3.
You just need to multiply up all the divisors to integers then use the divide by whole numbers, much easier and a lot more flexible I think you'll agree.
Rob

Easier depends on what you want to achieve for flexibility. For pure f1, f2, f3, the circuit I posted is the easiest, and was not meant to be flexible in regards to generating anything other than f1, f2, and f3.

Going back to SM's material, this is what is required, and I tend to stick to what the inventor has told us. Any changes or deviations, and we're no longer building strictly to the few undisputable facts he has given us.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 28, 2007, 10:40:52 PM
Hi Stefan,

pic 2296 has been shot in following conditions:

- test-ECD equipped with only 1 CC (Control Coil) with 2 secondarys.

- Load (60W/230V Lamp) is connected to the second secondary so it happens that it is completely isolated from the ECD itself.

- PS V=+13V.

- PS I= 3.2 A.

- 3 freq used

- sine percent reconstruction about 20%

- no ECD tampering on PS

A brief computing led me to calcolate the COP near the unity.

Roberto

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 28, 2007, 11:56:47 PM
@Darren,
Easier depends on what you want to achieve for flexibility. For pure f1, f2, f3, the circuit I posted is the easiest, and was not meant to be flexible in regards to generating anything other than f1, f2, and f3.
Your circuit posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg36260.html#msg36260
Not sure if the flip flops U1A & U1B will start off correctly.
Also the duty cycle is a bit strange, and the sync seems lop-sided.
All avenues need exploring so give it a go.

Going back to SM's material, this is what is required, and I tend to stick to what the inventor has told us. Any changes or deviations, and we're no longer building strictly to the few undisputable facts he has given us.
Do we know for a fact that the frequency ratios are 1 : 1.5 : 3 ?
Did ELV get back to you about shipping to Canada?
Email customer services and ask Stephanie about shipping.
I am still translating the manual into English and I will add  some of my own photos.
[edited]
Attached is a very rough copy of what I have so far:

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dani1 on June 29, 2007, 01:07:04 AM
Sorry Ronotte, but  as i see IMGP2296 i guessed the bulb brightness consumes about 30W, and  now i see your specs and the input power is in that range. Looks like ecd is a transformer up to now. ??
d.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 29, 2007, 02:22:39 AM
Sorry Ronotte, but  as i see IMGP2296 i guessed the bulb brightness consumes about 30W, and  now i see your specs and the input power is in that range. Looks like ecd is a transformer up to now. ??
d.

No Dani, not a transformer of power.  You are thinking Watt for Watt (my guess is you are an engineer? :) )  What we see with the ECD is power CONVERSION.  The DC input is nothing.  We see the creation of electricity.  And no it is not OU yet, but it is simply a matter of time.  Please reread the start of this thread and the .pdf compiled by Otto and Roberto.  Both of whom are well seasoned men, both in years and experience.  There would not be this level of excitement if all we were doing was inverting DC to AC.

Build one Dani and help us!

Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gaspo100 on June 29, 2007, 03:19:01 AM

Attached is a very rough copy of what I have so far:


Rob,
could also post the schematic of your DDS20? Thanks.

Peter
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 29, 2007, 06:02:25 AM
@Darren,
Easier depends on what you want to achieve for flexibility. For pure f1, f2, f3, the circuit I posted is the easiest, and was not meant to be flexible in regards to generating anything other than f1, f2, and f3.
Your circuit posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg36260.html#msg36260
Not sure if the flip flops U1A & U1B will start off correctly.
Also the duty cycle is a bit strange, and the sync seems lop-sided.
All avenues need exploring so give it a go.

Going back to SM's material, this is what is required, and I tend to stick to what the inventor has told us. Any changes or deviations, and we're no longer building strictly to the few undisputable facts he has given us.
Do we know for a fact that the frequency ratios are 1 : 1.5 : 3 ?
Did ELV get back to you about shipping to Canada?
Email customer services and ask Stephanie about shipping.
I am still translating the manual into English and I will add  some of my own photos.
[edited]
Attached is a very rough copy of what I have so far:

Regards
Rob

Hi Rob.

The circuit I posted works well in the sim, and I did mention in that post that Dave (CTGLabs) built it and it worked straight away for him. The duty cycle is a slight problem as I mentioned (66% instead of 50%), but later in a post ( http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.msg36268.html#msg36268 ) I suggested that the outputs be followed by a one-shot with adjustable pulse-width. Many people are doing this anyway. Many ways to skin this cat, just choose your favourite I suppose.

I'm not sure what you mean by ratios of 1:1.5: 3. The circuit divides as follows:

Master (f3)-->/1.5 (f2)-->/2 (f1). Am I sure that SM means fundamental, 2nd harmonic, 3rd harmonic? ...Pretty sure I suppose. This is what he says exactly:
Quote
The first frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third.

How do you interpret the above?

I did email customer service at ELV, and she wrote back that they do not ship to North America. I posted this a while back also. I'll keep looking.

Thanks,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on June 29, 2007, 06:49:54 AM
...This is what he (SM) says exactly:
Quote
The first frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third.

How do you interpret the above? ...

Thanks,
Darren

It could be read as:

"The first frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third frequency"

OR

"The first frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third harmonic"


If he meant the first, then he could have been cryptically refering to using octaves.

e.g. 220, 440, 880

440 IS the second harmonic but 880 is 3rd Octave (or 4th harmonic).
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Jdo300 on June 29, 2007, 06:55:14 AM
@ Jason:
   This is actually not really related here but then it is. I am so taken with the scope that you have in the background that I would love to know who makes it and the specific model number. I am in the market for a new one and want a good one to boot. Thanks

sugra


Hi Sugra,

I bought the scope off eBay from a company in China called OWON. It
s basically a Tektronix clone but it works great for my purposes. Giantkiller also bought the same model and it works great for him also.

They are always posting auctions on eBay for them. You'll get hits immediately if you type "owon" in as the search term. Here's a direct link to one of the auctions for the scope that I purchased:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Digital-Color-Oscilloscope-OWON-PDS5022S-w-USB_W0QQitemZ140133384807QQihZ004QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 29, 2007, 08:24:07 AM
Hi Jason,
I too have an Owon scope, PDS6062, that I got from the Owon distributor in the UK:
http://www.owon.co.uk/pds6062.asp

I would not recommend buying this off ebay as it comes with no warrentee. This is what Owon UK told me.
Its cheaper and safer to buy direct from a distributor in your own country if there is one.
Also upon request I got them to make the soft bag for it.
So they now have a black nylon soft bag to put the scope in to protect it. Its not on the website so you need to ask for it.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on June 29, 2007, 09:20:50 AM
The signal source is earth's core. The SM coil and my contraption are simply Farady pickup coils.
Loop antennas provide multiple gains at higher than designed resonance at almost random points of the spectrum. I am convinced his coils were flat tubing, waveguides or coaxial and Mobius.


My reply to WaveWatcher was incorrect.  I did not understand what I realize as of tonight.  The TPU IS like an antenna, like a radio, in the sense we ARE Tuning the device to a specific frequency.  The magnetic field of the Earth.  But NOT to 7.8 Hz Shummans Resonance, it will destroy.  No, the TPU needs to be "tuned" to resonate at 7.2-7.3  tuned "just off" of the "frequency of power".  THIS is how it acts like a Magnetometer!  Everything else remains the same.[/color]

This IS how the magnetic field of the earth is responsible for "converting" the power.
This IS the meaning of a "weak magnetic field over 1000 wires".
This IS why it will not work upside down!  (Think of the spin of hurricanes and toilets in different hemispheres!)
Go South and it would have to be wired in reverse!

THIS not only solves, BUT is the TOTAL answer.  ADD this to what is being done and see the power. Take this and put it into all of the clues about the earths magnetic field.

Question: How do we make an "antenna" collectors "RESONATE" at 7.23 Hz?   ???

That answer will be the practical solution. 

Quote from investors Email:
"It is supposedly tuned to the 7.23 Hz Earth's EM field.

It is shown in 3 sizes:  about 10 inches in diameter, larger, and the largest
one was about 18-24 inches in diameter.

They are placed flat (parallel to the ground) in the air (on a glass table)."

Quote from answering investors Email:
"The outer toroidal coil overheats and has no magic factors inside it other
than a length of the coil which is cut until resonance is established."

Video Quote of SM:
"It vibrates 7.3 times per second."
Lamp chord loop antenna with mobius, antenna tuned to 7.3 Hz.  Everything else we are doing the same.  ( You decide.  It is either an electromagnet of our making at 7.3 Hz or it is tuned to the resonance of 7.3 Hz)  Think magnetometer! 

Happy, Happy Days!  :)
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 29, 2007, 09:44:32 AM
Hi Darren, Rob,

If it can easier our tought I tell you that what is really needed, for start, is just to use the 1st & 2nd harmonic for F2 and F3 and leave asynchronous the lower range (F1) as it must be played to move the Seed location. I did played yesterday evening in that way ...and OK.

I did it so: connected my Wavetek 288 synthesizer to a flip-flop and so obtained a synched F2 and F3. Then I used another oscillator (NE555) to supply the lower range F1 and tuning it with a 20 turn pot.

Darren, I've not jet reconnected the original ECD so be patience hope to do it today. I wonder if you could in some way to take in account the Mobius turn..at the end it is similar to a 1 turn coil so I could find a way to give you the L R and Q if not too outside my LCR meter range.

Rob, I ordered the DDS20 Kit I can't wait to get it!

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 29, 2007, 12:59:23 PM
@Roberto,
I ordered the DDS-20 kits from ELV on the 19th June, order was picked 20th June and despatched.
It arrived on the 21st June. Very quick considering it was from Germany to the UK.
Carrier was DHL and I have found them an excellent courier from past experience.
I also order some 0.5mm lead free solder wire and that is very good. The solder paste I order too is OK but I prefered the solder wire as it does not leave traces on the board.
Other bits I had was:
1. a magnifying lamp, excellent for fiddly soldering work.
2. High temperature plastic tweezers.

Rob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Ergo on June 29, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Hi guys.

I haven't read all replies in this thread but I have to ask if the originally stated "Successful TPU-ECD replication" was true or not?
As I understand there is no proof yet that output vs input measurements was correct. Most probably wrong...???!!! (As Usual)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 29, 2007, 03:30:22 PM

Darren, I've not jet reconnected the original ECD so be patience hope to do it today. I wonder if you could in some way to take in account the Mobius turn..at the end it is similar to a 1 turn coil so I could find a way to give you the L R and Q if not too outside my LCR meter range.

Roberto

Roberto,

Unless I have interpreted your drawing of the mobius loop incorrectly, it will not be possible to measure any inductance of the loop.

If we consider the two loops as a "component" with two leads, and separate it from the rest of the circuit, we are left with two parallel wire loops. The two "leads" for this component would be via a connection to each loop, since there are two loops.

Since there is no DC path between these two connections (loops), measuring an inductance or resistance there is not possible. The component really is a "loop capacitor". Or it can be thought of as an antenna as well.

You could break each mobius loop and then measure the inductance, but when this component is placed into the circuit again, the inductance loop will again be shorted, and no inductance possible.

You have measured the loop capacitance already, and I do not know what more can be measured to account for it.

Please clarify if I have missed something.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on June 29, 2007, 04:07:13 PM

It could be read as:

"The first frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third frequency"


...he could have been cryptically refering to using octaves.

e.g. 220, 440, 880

440 IS the second harmonic but 880 is 3rd Octave (or 4th harmonic).

So continuing with your logic above, he could have been referring to ANY harmonic, or for that matter any frequency. Why not the 5th harmonic?    ::)

Maybe my logic is flawed, but SM's wording leads me to conclude that he means "harmonics", and he didn't feel the need to "spell it out" for us, and I agree.

Cheers,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 29, 2007, 04:44:27 PM
Darren,

I'm always referring to harmonic and not octave. Ok. There are reasons why to limit to only the second or perhaps the third, for example as the operating range as you know is within 200KHz, you are quickly out of this range choosing 1st harmonic (fundamental) higher than 100KHz!

In practice I see that scenario:

- F1 always less tha 100KHz (useful range found 20 - 85KHz) not need to be in phase with the others as it must be tuned only to control the Seed , it does not have or have little importance to get power.

- F2 always higher than F1 better if a multiple of F1 and in the range 100 - 220KHz it has importance for power and much easier to tune-in if synched with F3.

- F3 always near equal or higher than F2  and generally in the range 100 - 240KHz it has importance for power and much easier to tune-in if synched with F2

So you see that for simulation purposes you have just to choose an F1 for example 85.00KHz, and F2 for example 170.00KHz and F3 175.00.

OR

choose an F1 for example 35.00KHz, an F2 for example 70.00KHz and F3 140.00.

Of course there are many possibilities.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Gregi on June 29, 2007, 05:04:47 PM
Hello All,

Unlike the Ergo guy, (blahhh...) I've read all these 64 pages and also some 30 pages of the first SM topic that Lindsay opened more than a year ago. I read only about 30 pages,because then I stumbled upon this topic and then I couldn't get off of it so exciting it is.
Of course I plan to replicate Otto's device, I just need more understanding of how it is done, and also need to buy stuff...
What do you guys think of Bruce's last post? It seems really interesting what he is saying.
Anyways, I hope I will be testing soon and will be able to add something to this project.
Until then, a big THANKS to all of you who participate in this. Wonderful work!  :)

Regards,
Greg
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on June 29, 2007, 08:35:51 PM
Hi Greg,

YOU ARE WELLCOME

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Intellex on June 29, 2007, 08:39:27 PM


I apologize for not reading the thread yet in it's entirety,  however, has there been a list of necessary equipment posted yet for all of us aiming to replicate this procedure?  I saw the PDF which does a great first step in organizing the info,  but I'd like to get started on a step by step.  I'm willing to put this together if none already exists.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 29, 2007, 08:41:36 PM
@All,
I spent about an hour re-watching the SM youtube videos that Jeremy Gaul posted:
http://www.youtube.com/user/jeremygaul

So what do we know:
1. You need to move electrons through the wire to create the effect.
2. Flame effect when touching wires together.
3. Slows to a stop when inverted. (note - slows, does not stop instantly).
4. Works better when a magnet is introduced.
5. Washboard + gyroscope effect at 7.3Hz
6. Output of DC pulsed at around 5000Hz
7. A primary and secondary frequency input (in the case of the 17 " TPU).
8. 35705 Hz mentioned in amplifier project.
9. 245000 Hz also mentioned as the upper frequency of output transformer in amplifier project.
10. Voltage output in proportion to diameter of TPU.
11. Appears to have a large finned aluminum heat-sink  in the centre of the large TPU. (cooling the 2 x mosfets perhaps?)

So guess what happens if you divide 35705 / 7.3 ?
answer: 4891 (5000 Hz)

Coincidence? Maybe not.

Also 7 x 35705 = 249935 Hz
249935 / 4891 = 51.1
Yes I know its only 7 and not 7.3, but maybe this is close enough.
So what happens if you pulse two coils in close proximity with 35705 Hz and 7.3 x 35705 = 260646 Hz ? ( peaks line up 7.3 times a second).
Will you get a beat frequency of 7.3 Hz?

Regards
Rob
Title: What resonance ?
Post by: Earl on June 29, 2007, 08:56:22 PM
Hi Gregi,

SM didn't use an adjective to describe the word resonance, so it is impossible to interpret what he meant.

I interpret the following:
Quote from answering investors Email:
"The outer toroidal coil overheats and has no magic factors inside it other
than a length of the coil which is cut until resonance is established."

to mean Mhz range, with a much lower probability of being in 100s of kHz.

A resonance at 7 some Hertz implies a wire length in coil of 24284 miles = 39081.309 km,
respectively a TPU circumfrence of this length.  Resonance is tied to physical dimensions, whether acoustic, EM, or optic.

One could also interpret the following:
Quote from answering investors Email:
"The outer toroidal coil overheats and has no magic factors inside it other
than a length of the coil which is cut until resonance is established."

to mean that a low-distortion sinewave FET oscillator is being used with two coils, one for the drain and the feedback winding for the gate.  Resonance in this sense also means self-oscillation frequency.  The frequency stability would likely be rather miserable, although the sinewave could have low distortion.

Without more info from SM, some experiments will have to be with sines and others with square waves.

Lots of questions to answer means lots of experiments.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: What resonance ?
Post by: Mannix on June 29, 2007, 09:19:49 PM
Opps...wrong button!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 29, 2007, 10:31:08 PM
@all

1) Frequencies will always be subject to the particular device.

2) You will not find one set of frequencies that will work for all devices.

3) There will eventually be a tighter range to work with, as Ronotte is trying to explain, but you will always have to fine tune each one individually.

4) Nature has its own way of dealing with harmonics that is generally not in a uniform, cut and dry manner, such as mathematical or musical designs. Random events can produce the best homogeneous results.

For me, the most important thing right now to find out is, if you are destined to make this device eventually self-operating, then you have to consider the device to be operated in two stages.

First stage start up with only mV input, pulsed into the primary CC and captured by the secondary CC into a capacitor plus capture the BEMF into another capacitor until you have enough power to run the power hungry frequencies (or you have to reduce the power consumption of the frequencies).

If these pulses (without a frequency) can produce enough start-up current, then you know your CC configuration is on the right track and you can then look to stage two.

But if you only look and work on stage two (massive current with frequencies) and the device cannot start-up with only mV's. Then this device will never be self-operating and you will have to re-work the start-up.

So my question would be, can the CCs alone, if pulsed with mVs or 1 volt, produce at least 6 volts into a capacitor. If you can just achieve this one criteria, then things look good and you can start with 1 frequency. If not, then the CC's or the general design has to be modified first to accomplish this. Afterwards you can work to get the right frequencies. Macedonian started a thread on something that could be a good place to start stage one. He's using a bifilar using only a few watts.

So some of you, like me, who are not on the top of the electronics ladder can start doing some easy pulsing tests into the ECD (no frequencies required) to see how this can produce a successful stage one. Maybe start a new ECD thread for stage one only to not crowd these guys. If this is impossible, then the overal design is flawed. While this is being done by some of you, others can continue working to better understand the frequencies, especially, where the hell these frequencies should actually be injected without wasting so much juice.

If any of you can supply any easy (nyophite proof) pulsing circuit that can work on 1 volt or less, 1/2 for the circuit, 1/2 to pulse into the CC primary at around 250,000 cycles per second, I think this will do. If the pulse could be variable, this would be better.

Last point, but you are not going to like it. Stop talking about SM. He is a total distraction to this endeavor. Stop talking about him and start using your own brains. There is over 9000 posts on SM so what more is there to say? Take back your power. THIS IS NOT A TPU, THIS IS AN ECD. The only power that SM's TPU is drawing in, is your will power. Every few posts and someone starts saying SM said this, SM said that, Enough already. I feel like we're being wacthed by the SM police. Who's spending all these hours, days and months? The guy's a loser for having shafted the world and you guys venerate his every word. I can say alot about this but will not say more here. Stefan, I know. Stay tuned to a new thread near you.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: MeggerMan on June 30, 2007, 12:24:39 AM
@Wattsup or undercover MIB?  ;)
No offence, but there is so much wrong with this post that I don't know where to start:

Quote
1) Frequencies will always be subject to the particular device.
Surely unless you have at least several different sizes of working TPU/ECD then you cannot know this for sure.

Quote
2) You will not find one set of frequencies that will work for all devices.
See point 1.

Quote
3) There will eventually be a tighter range to work with, as Ronotte is trying to explain, but you will always have to fine tune each one individually.
I agree with this if you mean tune the physical device to match the frequency/harmonics/beat frequency.

Quote
4) Nature has its own way of dealing with harmonics that is generally not in a uniform, cut and dry manner, such as mathematical or musical designs. Random events can produce the best homogeneous results.
As I understand it, harmonics are mathematically based on the frequency(ies).
Possibly the amplitude is effected by physical aspects of the setup.

Looks like you're trying to capture BEMF, great if you want a DC-DC converter but of little use otherwise.

The reason we are all analysing what SM is trying to get across to us is that as you know, he has a many working devices, knows how to build one and is by far the best expert to help us out IF his hands were not tied by his contract. Pity about that.
The phrase "re-inventing the wheel" springs to mind, start from scratch if you want but I like to use the picture on the lid of the box when I piece together a puzzle.
You cannot just rubbish a person like Steven Marks, if it was not for him half this forum would be empty and there would be no TPU.
I think that we are starting to make headway and things should start clicking into place very soon.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Successful ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on June 30, 2007, 10:23:34 PM
@all

It seems kind of quiet here. Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers. Tommorrow or Monday I will open a new thread called "Steven Marks - Truth or Fiction" so if anyone wants to debate this question, it can be done there. Sorry for bringing it up here.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I now have two function generators and I am looking at this third one on Ebay located at;

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Beckman-Industrial-FG3A-Sweep-Function-Generator_W0QQitemZ300124478198QQihZ020QQcategoryZ97199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Does anyone have any experience with this unit and is it a good unit to bid on.

@ronotte

Do I need to have your last circuit built if I will already have the function generators. If no, where can I find the minimal circuit with mosfets/driver to build to match the function generators since I will be seeing my builder on Tuesday.

My ECD is built and I will try to find a simple DC pulse circuit to try simple pulsing into the coils to see what gives.

All the best.


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: lancaIV on July 01, 2007, 12:36:52 AM
Hello Earl,
some response to the question: "What is resonance ?"
Thermal 2 accoustic:
"I know",the KAPPA is written but not spoken like "Kindergarten" ;

from the saxonic "GOTT" (ex-"IOS"/ from IOVE)to the anglosaxonic "GOD",
the G or J or I is written but not spoken !
Denn er hauchte SEIN, des ES  OD in den Menschen ! The EBENBILD-principle.

so(m)nium to In so(m)nia:em sonho= dreaming

Why this is important:
cause the magnets-memory(Bearden,Radus) and probably
also electrons-memory(Rotoverter) !

resonance: physical MNEMO behaviour,detect-and controlable

S
  dL

p.s.: This explanation is religion group independant,it is only about
        the human tool called/named "language/french"longue",
        the importance is the conversation with the "quantum sphere",
        probably with an instrument like the Flanagan "Neurophone",
        the target is to reach the stadium,where we can use electricity
        with/for  scan-CAD-CIM/CAM-production,
        but at first we have to detect and obduct the "e-GENOM" !



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on July 01, 2007, 03:20:10 AM
@all

1) Frequencies will always be subject to the particular device.

2) You will not find one set of frequencies that will work for all devices.

3) There will eventually be a tighter range to work with, as Ronotte is trying to explain, but you will always have to fine tune each one individually.

4) Nature has its own way of dealing with harmonics that is generally not in a uniform, cut and dry manner, such as mathematical or musical designs. Random events can produce the best homogeneous results.

For me, the most important thing right now to find out is, if you are destined to make this device eventually self-operating, then you have to consider the device to be operated in two stages.

First stage start up with only mV input, pulsed into the primary CC and captured by the secondary CC into a capacitor plus capture the BEMF into another capacitor until you have enough power to run the power hungry frequencies (or you have to reduce the power consumption of the frequencies).

If these pulses (without a frequency) can produce enough start-up current, then you know your CC configuration is on the right track and you can then look to stage two.

But if you only look and work on stage two (massive current with frequencies) and the device cannot start-up with only mV's. Then this device will never be self-operating and you will have to re-work the start-up.

So my question would be, can the CCs alone, if pulsed with mVs or 1 volt, produce at least 6 volts into a capacitor. If you can just achieve this one criteria, then things look good and you can start with 1 frequency. If not, then the CC's or the general design has to be modified first to accomplish this. Afterwards you can work to get the right frequencies. Macedonian started a thread on something that could be a good place to start stage one. He's using a bifilar using only a few watts.

So some of you, like me, who are not on the top of the electronics ladder can start doing some easy pulsing tests into the ECD (no frequencies required) to see how this can produce a successful stage one. Maybe start a new ECD thread for stage one only to not crowd these guys. If this is impossible, then the overal design is flawed. While this is being done by some of you, others can continue working to better understand the frequencies, especially, where the hell these frequencies should actually be injected without wasting so much juice.

If any of you can supply any easy (nyophite proof) pulsing circuit that can work on 1 volt or less, 1/2 for the circuit, 1/2 to pulse into the CC primary at around 250,000 cycles per second, I think this will do. If the pulse could be variable, this would be better.

Last point, but you are not going to like it. Stop talking about SM. He is a total distraction to this endeavor. Stop talking about him and start using your own brains. There is over 9000 posts on SM so what more is there to say? Take back your power. THIS IS NOT A TPU, THIS IS AN ECD. The only power that SM's TPU is drawing in, is your will power. Every few posts and someone starts saying SM said this, SM said that, Enough already. I feel like we're being wacthed by the SM police. Who's spending all these hours, days and months? The guy's a loser for having shafted the world and you guys venerate his every word. I can say alot about this but will not say more here. Stefan, I know. Stay tuned to a new thread near you.


YEP ! feathers ,as predicted...duly..ruffled!

 good points you raised..BUT you have lost it on your last
 paragraph,

I for 1 suggest that your manners and asumptions are in question and let me ask you what point there is in sharing your ungrateful attitude .... I know that you are frustrated but spare  the messenger or messengers from your grief and failure to take responsibility for your inability to reverse engineer something as complex and important as this.  Bring what you can to this ..I have other have recently brought more ...the process is actually working.

Its not for everybody its  HARD ....real hard...and I ask that you think twice...or just once  before exspressing your grief here ... It is of absolutely no assistance to anything here ...even your self.
we will look back at this and say how simple it is...

If you have your own Ideas about another generator..then go for it ..start another thread...make a thread called " I JUST DONT GET THE TPU"  see how long it takes you to get it! Beet stil make one called "I GIVE UP" that will helpsomany people too.. just ignore the videos..the engineer reports..the witness reports..all the snippets of info that help in small ways...
Jump in your hole by all means, you dont need to advertise the fact that you are defeated by some of the info...Info that Im afraid may only be seen clearly with hind sight.

Calling somebody a "loser" merely makes clear to most,who is the loser here. More sadly the loss you cause could be everybodys.

You are lost, thats ok...just be nice!

It is great that you are building ,and i do agree with your first points.But can we please get this thread back to ECD replication?

Lindsay Mannix
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 05:26:49 AM
Hey guys,

Just a heads up... An OU claim is coming tonight.  It is a "type" of TPU is all I can say.  They will tell you all about it and post pictures.  Just please do not overwhelm or bombard this person.  But stay tuned, it could be a very exciting night!

Happy, Happy Days!   ;D
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 05:29:08 AM
Otto, Roberto, Renotte, Jason, Bruce et al.

I've been doing some experiements and found that you can build a huge electric field that you can capture, transfer and pulse. Imagine entraining the ionesphere by pulsing ONLY the electric field at the schumann resonance. In other words cancelling the effect of magnetic flux. This electric field can be rotated. Electrons will follow the electric field. No flux to hold the electrons back as you are only rotating an electric field...

The salient stuff starts here: (but may need context of whole thread).
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2607.msg37572.html#msg37572

Basically you add some series diodes to both wires of every coil. This allows the electric field to build and hold at phenominal levels. This is not the same as step charging a capacitor. Stick your oscilloscope probe on metal objects feet away and observe the 5-10V (not millivolts, volts) oscillations on these objects. Exactly the same circuit but with the diodes shorted does not exhibit these oscillations on distant metal objects. You can only pick up millivolt mains oscillations at 50hz (60hz for those with 60hz mains AC).

Think of the energy in a tornado, the lightening, due to a rotating electric field. I'm sure I've read, a couple of years ago, that tornadoes emit a schumann resonance electromagnetic wave. Trying to find a reference on this. If any one has a reference on this please let me know.



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 05:30:45 AM
Hey guys,

Just a heads up... An OU claim is coming tonight.  It is a "type" of TPU is all I can say.  They will tell you all about it and post pictures.  Just please do not overwhelm or bombard this person.  But stay tuned, it could be a very exciting night!

Happy, Happy Days!   ;D
Bruce

Rock on!! Could this be Earl's work ?

Due to time zones 'tonight' can be hard to determine. How many hours from now approx. will that be ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on July 01, 2007, 05:31:03 AM
Hi Bob:

Wow! Is this IT?
Maybe we'll induct you into the Hall of Fame, together with Otto and Renotte!

Looking forward to exciting times! Great job!

chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 05:40:45 AM
Due to time zones 'tonight' can be hard to determine. How many hours from now approx. will that be ?

@ Bob R.
No, not Earl.  And I do not know what time zone this person is in, so that is a good question!  LOL

I enjoy your experiments very much!  Theory only gives direction until proven true/false and that is what experiments are all about.

I am glad that you did what BEP suggested with the diodes on the bifilar.  I was wondering what would happen...

Bob, how can this test ALSO be conducted on the ECD??  This so fits into TAO's statement that SM so approved of.  I am just so excited because piece by little piece we are going to make this happen.  His TPU is (easy, think diode, signal pulses) but it's complexity, very deep.

Happy, Happy Days!
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 05:52:09 AM
Listen up guys!

I have been asked to post the pictures and details for them.  When I receive them in my mail, I will start a new thread with the information.  Here is hoping all is accurate...;)

Happy, Happy Days! :)
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 06:16:11 AM
Due to time zones 'tonight' can be hard to determine. How many hours from now approx. will that be ?

@ Bob R.
...
I enjoy your experiments very much!  Theory only gives direction until proven true/false and that is what experiments are all about.

I am glad that you did what BEP suggested with the diodes on the bifilar.  I was wondering what would happen...

....
Bruce  :)

NO. NO. This is not what BEP was describing with his 'infinity inductor' and bifilar coil stuff. Reread my thread!!

BEP was talking about using diodes to transfer energy out of a tank (resonating) circuit. I'm doing exactly the opposite. You don't want the oscillations. You don't want a tank circuit where the energy is being stored - oscillations deplete energy. You want only an electric field. An electric field, in this set up, stored in a coil has the potential rising from 12V at one end to 300V+ at the other.

You have to keep the energy IN. The diodes are not there to bleed energy out of a tank as BEP was suggesting. You have to use two diodes one on each end of the coil so that the BEMF cannot get out. If you use one, you do not get this affect, the energy dissapates.

I've already managed to get rid of the 10% oscillations. I can now bang the voltage straight up to 300V. This is pure changing of electric field.

We need to thanks MACEDONIA for putting me onto this route.


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 01, 2007, 06:26:11 AM
Hey guys,

Just a heads up... An OU claim is coming tonight.  It is a "type" of TPU is all I can say.  They will tell you all about it and post pictures.  Just please do not overwhelm or bombard this person.  But stay tuned, it could be a very exciting night!

Happy, Happy Days!   ;D
Bruce

Bruce, If your friend has done his homework and due diligence, there will be no need for a barrage of questioning.

However, I would advise that they be well-prepared to be eaten alive if they have not. There have been too many IDI's already, and the troops are restless and may be unkind.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 06:35:29 AM
Due to time zones 'tonight' can be hard to determine. How many hours from now approx. will that be ?

Bob, how can this test ALSO be conducted on the ECD??  This so fits into TAO's statement that SM so approved of.  I am just so excited because piece by little piece we are going to make this happen.  His TPU is (easy, think diode, signal pulses) but it's complexity, very deep.

Happy, Happy Days!
Bruce  :)

Any coil that participates in holding the electric field has to be open circuit or it has to be adding energy into the coil - all with two serial diodes per coil. As soon as any coil that is participating in holding the energy is shorted, the energy is transferred to that coil.

****For example, I have a coil and another coil wrapped at 90 degrees to this coil. If you pulse and capture the BEMF as an electric field in one coil, as soon as you short the 90 degree coil, this BEMF energy appears in the 90 degree coil.**** EDIT: This original statement is INCORRECT. Subsequent tests have shown that shorting a 90 degree coil does not affect the stored energy. The statement does apply to a bifilar coil.

The electric field can be measured on the 90 degree coil (collector) when the main coil is storing the pulse.
END_EDIT.

The main concept is to rise the stored capacitance to as large a level as possible whilst at the same time moving this electric field in a circle. I'm getting some very interesting effects when the high voltage oscillations appear on top of the already stored electric field!! This has echoes of the Italian Device.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 06:36:01 AM
@ Darren

He is a youth.  And there is never a reason to be unkind.  (Well, hardly ever!  Kokomojo was perhaps an exception! LOL) 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 01, 2007, 06:48:56 AM
@ Darren

He is a youth.  And there is never a reason to be unkind.  (Well, hardly ever!  Kokomojo was perhaps an exception! LOL) 

Bruce, sorry to appear harsh, but that affords me even more reason suggest he double check his measurements BEFORE MAKING ANY CLAIMS OF OU!

Unless of course he enjoys a good whipping.  :P

There's a great deal to be learned from what has been discussed here since Otto and Roberto made their claims regarding what NOT to do. I suggest you both go back and review it as thoroughly as you yourself have reviewed SM's material.

Darren

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 01, 2007, 07:12:26 AM
@ Darren,

It would be sad if he has what he claims and to think that remarks like yours could make someone not even want to post.

Big deal if he is wrong, dude!  What have you lost??  A few minutes, and maybe an experiment?

EM Thought he had it and we were excited, but he didn't.  It is okay.  At least they are experimenting with real things...LOL

Bruce  ;D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 01, 2007, 07:29:45 AM
Well, first of all Bruce , what would become of this thread and forum if every second day someone posted an IDI and they consistently turned out to be false claims?

Think about that dude. You heard of the story of the boy that cried wolf?

The point I am trying to make, and have tried to make several times, is DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!

Trust me on this one, people don't like to be jostled around when it comes to claims other people are making. Eventually, if it continues, people won't respond at all, and when the real thing actually DOES arrive, THAT will be sad, because it will be ignored. Get it?

You ask what is the big deal if the claim is false?

Then I ask you this...What is the big deal of doing your homework first?

If I tell you I can drive a 100Watts into a loudspeaker using only a LM324 Opamp output, are you going to take my word for it and start building it? Or would you want to see proof first?

Cheers,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 01, 2007, 09:28:18 AM
First post, Does this thing still need to be umbilicaled to dds/power suppply or not after priming?  It it only needs priming and is then wireless, drive loads!  Is this like the MEG that likes non-linear ,loads only?.. like lamps?  Back to reading this thread on fire before I fall behind.  Thanks for answering in advance.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 01, 2007, 10:37:46 AM
@Darren,

I've reconnected my old but complete ECD and made a few run. The best freqs are many but I may suggest to use for simulation purposes:

F1= 35 KHz
F2= 105KHz
F3= 175 KHz

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bob Boyce on July 01, 2007, 05:39:27 PM
Hello All

While I have heard of Steven Marks of course, and the replications you all have been attempting for a while now, I had not been following the threads on this site. It wasn't until a recent post on a thread on the oupower.com forum that someone brought the parent thread of this topic to my attention. I am glad they did this, as I had not been to this site in a long time.

I have spent several days reading that thread, and the continuation on this thread, so as to get up to where you all were in this. I have finally caught up today.

First, I would like to express my gratitude for finally finding a group of people that seem to understand some of the key elements required to obtain success in this type of technology.

As many of you suspect, or are at least aware, one key to this anomoly is extremely fast switching times. This means that, in most cases, you can't simply take off the shelf waveform generators, and connect them to just any old transistors driving the coils, and expect it to work the same. I have battled this issue myself, but the hardest part I have had is getting others to understand why this extremely fast switching is so important. So whatever you use for your waveform source, you may need to process the output into very sharp and narrow pulses. Longer duration on times are just wasted power. Then take those pulses and fire them at the switching device with as much potential and current that is required to get fast and clean switching. If this requires another IC to be a driver, so be it.

Otto and ronotte, great work. As I was reading, I saw you firing all 3 frequencies into a single primary, or 3 primaries in parallel. This reminded me of some of my older research where I combined the 3 waveforms. I see that you realized, as I had, that each frequency really needs its own seperate winding to get the full impact. I don't want to interfere with your progress, as you are doing very well, and learning much as you go.

As you have probably noticed, signal phasing is VERY critical if you wish to control the beast. As you are also aware, be very careful. If you go into an avalanche, as Otto has experienced, the potential for disaster is there. Test equipment is easy to destroy, but that is not the only danger. If the system is not destroyed immediately, there is potential for an avalanche to continue to the point were a couple hundred thousand amps can flow in a flash, and this can induce a local lightning strike. Lightning discharges are the visible manifestation of the electrical interaction portion of a large induced dominant energy avalanche in nature. I know many of you won't understand this, so the key thing to keep in mind is just be careful.

So many are trying to push experimenters to "close the loop", and I offer this warning. That was my first mistake! When I removed the controlled drive energy while feeding part of the output energy back to the input, it triggered a runaway situation that resulted in an energy avalanche. You MUST maintain control, no matter the energy cost. If you must, put in a charging circuit to maintain a battery, and use that battery to run the control electronics. Do not remove the battery or other tightly controlled power source from the system, as this can lead to unstable operation and a runaway condition.

Be extremely careful with radiated energy. You can do permanent damage to yourself and others around you, as well as cause potentially dangerous interference or damage to electromagnetic sensitive devices. Your energy experiment can cause interference to medical or other instruments that are maintaining life elsewhere, like a neighbors pacemaker, or the radio comminucations of some emergency personell somewhere else. Radiation of harsh EMF is not always required, as fields can be tightly focused inwards, or shielded to curtail the unwanted effects.

On the subject of frequencies, and this seed that is being referred to. The actual frequencies are not usually critical, as long as correct harmonic relationship between the frequencies are observed. Of course the size of the coils, and the materials within proximity of those coils, will dictate what works best for that particular unit. Phase control of these frequencies is a must, if you wish to extract the maximum usable power from the dominant energy field. As was already observed, the seed (or seeds, as more than one are possible) is a localized distortion caused by the nuclear magnetic resonance of materials that are within the near magnetic field of the devices coils. Depending upon how the device is constructed, these may or may not be used to your advantage, but they are not always required to get a useful interaction between the electric, magnetic, and dominant energies.

There are literally hundreds of ways to interact with, and tap into dominant energy. Almost all require some sort of dipole charge seperation somewhere in the system. Some are better than others. Some operate on very low input vs output energy. One (Hendershot Device) operates, powering a load, with no input power whatsoever, however operational stability is not the greatest. I wish I could share the videos with the public, but I am not allowed. Most of these inventors and replicators are very private people that wish to maintain their privacy. Much of my own research has been published, but most of that is related to the integration of the energy technology with other technology for boosting overall performance.

Carry on guys, you're doing great!

Bob Boyce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: dani1 on July 01, 2007, 06:03:13 PM
Good posting, Bob.
According to hartiberlins compilation:
Builders take this for real:

54. However, you must have an emergency KILL switch.
??. A heat sensor buried within the collector coil.
Also the kill switch should also be connected to cut off whenever it measures
over voltage.

..dani
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 01, 2007, 06:07:34 PM
As per Roberto's request for using 35k, 105k, and 175k in the simulation, see attached for results.


Hope this helps.


I think that about does it for me for a while guys. I have my own work and experiments to do, which I am anxious to get started on. There are other reasons as well, but I'll leave it at that.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Earl on July 01, 2007, 07:05:22 PM
Hi Bob,

glad to see you here.  Welcome on board.  Please stick around.

Regards, Earl
Hello All
While I have heard of Steven Marks of course, and the replications you all have been attempting for a while now, I had not been following the threads on this site. It wasn't until a recent post on a thread on the oupower.com forum that someone brought the parent thread of this topic to my attention. I am glad they did this, as I had not been to this site in a long time.
[snip]
Carry on guys, you're doing great!
Bob Boyce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bob.rennips on July 01, 2007, 07:11:11 PM
Great to have you here, Bob Boyce.

Your projects with hydrogen generation are legendary!  That broken diode on the alternator that started it all off - are you able to give us the idea behind why the broken diode was causing the extra power anomaly you observed ?

As far as I could see the pulses from two of the 3 phase coils would each be fed back as DC pulse spikes into the coil with the broken diode.

With regards to phase could you expand on what aspect of the phase is important ?

Are we trying to get pulses exactly lined up ?
Sequentially staggered by a very small amount in time ?

My current thoughts are that the accurate physical placement of the coils in a circle is critical and that the phase timing is to do with how long it takes the magnetic field ( or is it electric field ?) from one coil to travel to the other coils. The idea being that the other coils are pulsed at exactly the right time to coincide with a certain point of the magnetic/electric waveform that is going past the coil. Question is what point in the waveform !!?

Thanks, Bob Rennips
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bob Boyce on July 01, 2007, 07:29:17 PM
Great to have you here, Bob Boyce.

Your projects with hydrogen generation are legendary!  That broken diode on the alternator that started it all off - are you able to give us the idea behind why the broken diode was causing the extra power anomaly you observed ?

As far as I could see the pulses from two of the 3 phase coils would each be fed back as DC pulse spikes into the coil with the broken diode.

With regards to phase could you expand on what aspect of the phase is important ?

Are we trying to get pulses exactly lined up ?
Sequentially staggered by a very small amount in time ?

My current thoughts are that the accurate physical placement of the coils in a circle is critical and that the phase timing is to do with how long it takes the magnetic field ( or is it electric field ?) from one coil to travel to the other coils. The idea being that the other coils are pulsed at exactly the right time to coincide with a certain point of the magnetic/electric waveform that is going past the coil. Question is what point in the waveform !!?

Thanks, Bob Rennips

Hello Bob

I'm sorry, I did not mean to disrupt this thread. There are many that do not agree with my interpretations or terminology. If you would like, we can take this to another thread so we do not disturb a work in progress. Just send me a PM and let me know what thread.

Bob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 01, 2007, 11:08:17 PM
Hi Bob,

it's really a pleasure to have you here, you are wellcome! It's a great honor and I do hope you'll help all of us to clear the fog that's still covering mostly of the clear ground.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 01, 2007, 11:24:39 PM
@Darren,

thanks for your simulation Darren, it seems that the peak frequency summation  is really equal to reality. What I don't see is:

 - by product of freqs heterodying ... could you try to just offset the freq values I gave You (like in actual operation...is difficult to centre the exact value) and see the effects?

- signal difference by Phase and Zero point against the ground: on Zero point you should see mostly spike waveform on the first quadrant and the signal are of two kinds: RE spikes and single big spikes between 2 subsequent RE spikes. On Phase point the waveforms are mainly on 4th quadrant and are composed by a sine wave part (initial part)  and a spike part to -600 - 800V, the beginning  (the first -40V) is generally a partial sine wave ...just have a look at my paper.

Please if you need any clarification don't hesitate to contact me.

Hope you will find the time to do that kind of search!

Roberto



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on July 02, 2007, 12:38:36 AM
@Darren,

thanks for your simulation Darren, it seems that the peak frequency summation  is really equal to reality. What I don't see is:

 - by product of freqs heterodying ... could you try to just offset the freq values I gave You (like in actual operation...is difficult to centre the exact value) and see the effects?

- signal difference by Phase and Zero point against the ground: on Zero point you should see mostly spike waveform on the first quadrant and the signal are of two kinds: RE spikes and single big spikes between 2 subsequent RE spikes. On Phase point the waveforms are mainly on 4th quadrant and are composed by a sine wave part (initial part)  and a spike part to -600 - 800V, the beginning  (the first -40V) is generally a partial sine wave ...just have a look at my paper.

Please if you need any clarification don't hesitate to contact me.

Hope you will find the time to do that kind of search!

Roberto






Darren,
yes to all Roberto said,

Thanks for your valuable input. I dont think any of us expected the simulation to take into account the interactions of the high speed field and its effect/interaction with its local environment.

However simulations are fantastic for good circuit design. and a valuable tool in context.Thanks again.

Bob!
I hope that you see fit make an ecd or two with us as well..

BTW I have found that 15" allows more room to experiment.
I have 15"and 13" superglued to rubber oil cooler hose, and spaced with cable ties...

many combinations give light.some are very abrupt! ..It would seem to be better if we could seperately drive the coils ...Its great to have a start point. it is a 3 cylinder engine where the intersection point of the frequencies cause acceleration .
like spinning a bicycle wheel

I have been wondering why (be careful) the units in the videos are started up first ..then the load is applied...
Remember Otto's burn up happened with no load as did mine 6 months ago with a seike type generator.

Any body still building,
make your mosfet /driver sections robust and individual. I suggest  a zener/cap clamp on the mosfet driver power supply.
 It took me 3 goes to see  the value of seperating them.





Lindsay Mannix

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 02, 2007, 01:30:41 AM
Darren,
yes to all Roberto said,

Thanks for your valuable input. I dont think any of us expected the simulation to take into account the interactions of the high speed field and its effect/interaction with its local environment.

However simulations are fantastic for good circuit design. and a valuable tool in context.Thanks again.

Lindsay Mannix


@ Lindsay.

You're welcome. Just trying to help in any way possible.

I never expected radiation or other environmental effects to manifest in my simulations, and I did mention that at the start.

It was not my intention to give the impression that I'm done because the waveforms don't exhibit the artifacts Roberto is seeing. That's not one of the reasons, but sorry for the confusion.

@ Roberto.

Good luck with your research, and above all, enjoy the journey.

Regards,
Darren

PS. There's one last item I'm working on before I go. Hope to have it done soon. It's doesn't pertain to any one thread or topic, but should be helpful to all involved in the quest.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 02, 2007, 09:03:41 AM
Thank you for your response.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on July 02, 2007, 11:52:06 AM


Steven has never once mentioned a dds controller in fact the ecd is another angle to the same end we will see befor long just how close the origional ecd is.

All the info released is all of a general nature...that is why this is thread called ECD replication..

you are right about "experimenting"



good luck with your experiments

enjoy the show of pipes,radios and plasticene....I hope im wrong



Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Mannix on July 03, 2007, 02:29:39 AM
Hi all,

really quiet over here...hmmmmmm



This is only important if you are building something..

Just in case there is any body still undiverted...sad really


Refering to the videos you will notice that all of the units are started up..then the load is applied.. they need to spin up first...they will not start if the load is connected.Calalyst requires a free run

Im not sure if this has been covered before..i dont think so!

Use this information carefully...unfortunately we are now trying to smoke things. and we are lookin for inertial effects in our devices.

jumping, jolting, vibration, smoke.

If they get hot you are safer ..

I leave open to suggestion how we safely run with no load ...perhaps a relay that cycles on and off every 2 seconds??

Perhaps fuses...like on the big coil in the videos?


The significance of this is to our experiments cannot be over looked.

Electron tubes will survive most this battering thats for sure...
I was running most all of my tube experiments with a load connected!!!!!arghhhhh

The danger is obvious...it means that Ottos experiment which blew up some things is what we have to do. In both cases the load was not connected..... Im sorry that this means blown fets ...and extreme frustration..
Lets work together on this and i politley ask that those who are not yet building to be patient whilst they catch up to here.

those who have built can see how abruptly the sweet spots happen....also how they need winding up to..like lighting a fire

So (thinking of GK) Gentlemen,breifly, remove your bulbs!

Perhaps 2 pipes is more your style? Ha! I still hope im wrong..sorts out the men from the boys ay?ever heard of a gelcel?

If I am I promise you all a full paragraph of humble pie.

Lindsay Mannix

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on July 03, 2007, 02:53:51 AM
@otto - @ronotte et al

Here is my ECD unit done to Ottos' V1.2 with the following spec.

Each CC having:
Primary - 8 feet - 0.015 lb - 23 awg - 0.5 ohm
Secondary - 30 feet - 0.015 lb - 28 awg - 2.5 ohm
Coil ends - 2 X Pogs (from my sons' old collection but real snazzy lookin) lol
Coil wound bifilar with continued secondary on top (No center tap) Hassle.
Coil Length: 1" interior x 1.5" exterior
Coil diameter: approx. 0.5"

Ring Material: 1/4" polyethylene tubing
Ring Wire: 16 awg multistrand 6" and 4"

Will start doing some less advanced tests like you guys cause I don't have the mosfets done yet, but everything else is here.

Yes sir and now we can play.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 03, 2007, 03:26:47 AM
It shouldn't be long before folks realize there are many ways to get juice. The thing that will take a while is 'how to do it in a controlled and reliable way'.

I am still working on mine when not at work. I already have a pipe-dream and got burnt, literally. Sales for aluminum tubing and headphone extension cables will go up for a short while.
Even though I am probably known as one of the wilder ones, I still believe Otto is on the right track.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 04:09:33 AM
I am here at my partners, watching him solder away!  I told him I am not leaving his house until we fire the ECD up tonight!  LOL

I will post Pictures of course.

@ Mannix

Not to worry, some of us can multi task and play with pipes and ECD all in the same week!  ;)  And some of those bits in the pipes you will find, need to be in our friends TPU.

@ All
Much quicker if an electronics guy will build and sell the controllers.  Just a thought.

Happy Days!
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 03, 2007, 07:45:13 AM
@ Watsup that thing looks great. :)

@ Mannix ,i am building, however it is not the Mobius design.
i could change it to that but i will try other things which came to mind first.

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 03, 2007, 10:08:39 AM
@Wattsup,

neat realization, for any help please count on me.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 03, 2007, 04:30:00 PM
Mannix, I see a lot of veiled references to brnbrade's setup. I know you suspect him of being a purposeful distraction, as well as BEP(Wavewatcher). Well, I know BEP, and I have to say, that I know that is not the case with him.

I have to agree that there may be nothing to the brnbrade coils. All we can do is test and find out. So far, most who are going to build Ronotte's/Ottos setup, have built it. And done some testing. There's a lot more to do.

I do disagree however with your assertion that brnbrades device is not related to the study of SM's TPUs. I think the study of two transformers "slightly out of phase, or connected in reverse of one another" is quite related. Especially when it is claimed overunity, and now, self-running. Those claims have yet to be independently verified, however.

Also, what was otto's device when he went from the 50 turns setup with a single control coil to two? I bet it looked quite similar to this aside from the fact that there is no collector.

Otto and brnbrade (as well as myself and others here) followed the erfinder posts and drew inspiration from them. Otto based some ideas off of the VTA, or DTO, diagram, and brnbrade off of the mcfarland cook patent. Have you noticed how similar they are?

I have to say, if Otto's device is related, then so is brnbrades.

Otto has made claims that his device loses weight, has inertia, etc. already, on ctglabs. when dave asked him more about it he didn't answer. Nobody else has seen this yet. And we've seen lots of behavior of otto's coil that are most definitely not present in SM's device. SM has no problem touching his coils, it's quite dangerous in otto's. Although there is RF in SM's judging by the fire output, there doesn't seem to be massive fields in the room. Much more testing needs to be done. Otto only has bits and pieces of the whole picture. Others will have other parts.

Otto has already said his device is not overunity. From all accounts, that is correct. It's not. No thunder is being stolen, but we have to look at other angles in order to find the missing pieces that will make it overunity.

Have that thread moved back. It's a valid line of research and is clearly NOT disrespectful to SM. And is NOT distracting from Ottos work. They are very closely related, if you look closer.. 

Regards,
Rich
Title: heterodynes
Post by: Earl on July 03, 2007, 08:13:53 PM
Hi Roberto,

I see no reason to expect heterodyne by-products since there is no apparent non-linear element ( = mixer) in the TPU.

Do you see a non-linear element somewhere that I missed?

Regards, Earl
@Darren,
thanks for your simulation Darren, it seems that the peak frequency summation  is really equal to reality. What I don't see is:

 - by product of freqs heterodying
... could you try to just offset the freq values I gave You (like in actual operation...is difficult to centre the exact value) and see the effects?
[snip]
Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 03, 2007, 08:27:09 PM
@ Stefan

I suggest upon successful replication of the brnbrade coil, it be moved BACK to this forum.  I concur completely with Rich in this matter.

Thank you,
Bruce  :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 03, 2007, 11:00:22 PM
Hey Y'all,  Pipes, tubes, plastic?  I'm still reading...from both ends.  Somone please tell me what Reply#'s talk about this.
Humble
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Technoalchemist on July 04, 2007, 04:07:54 AM
Hi all. Great stuff you have here. Congrats. I too believe SM has it, as Tesla and Henry Moray before him. I have watched the videos, read the correspondences, and most of this posting here. I would like to make a few comments regarding SMs' words from the PDF on PESwiki and one video......He does mention earth resonant frequencies. (7.83Hz) He also speaks ALOT about Tesla, and his wacky TV story. I have been getting into "natural radio" (ELF) quite a bit lately. If I understand Schumann resonances and frequency harmonics at all, our "earth-resonant antenna" becomes 31.42' long @ 7.83MHz, or 314' @ 783KHz. I could be wrong. I have read that our 60Hz power system resonates with the Schumann cavity. I believe one of the coils acts as an antenna. Calculating toriod antennas may be different, but I know they are used for satellite. When he said to "never tune to exact frequencies of conversion" I suspected he meant this one. For it also appeared to me that the discord in the other frequencis is where the useable power comes from. The fact that the unit produces RF burns was another clue to me. The gyroscopic effect another. He also mentioned Tesla and "tuned magnetometers" His commentary could also be a bunch of B.S. too. Very good to see Bob Boyce here.
Now I have some questions:
1: Has anybody seen the UEC patents? I think the MPT are rubbish
2: Are you all in concensus that there is a battery in play here?

Its an honor to be here with such an astute group of folks, doing some of the greatest energy research for REAL public good in probably a century. Three words for the experimenters: SAFTEY, SAFTEY, SAFTEY! Don't cook yerself off with these great toys.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 04, 2007, 05:01:28 AM
I did see him install a watch battery in a 6" unit on video a few years ago where he powered two 60W End-Table Lamps.  How much kick is really needed?  Can you reduce the drive frequency power levels as total conversion is neared or do you really need to start so high?  I'm still reading so I don't fry my face off by powering up in ignorance. 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: weri812 on July 04, 2007, 05:40:34 AM
@ wcernuska

can you point to that video
would love to see that

@ gk have you fired up that ecd w/ 4 g cable and alum wire frame
if so how did it go


wer
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 07:12:27 AM
Hello All,  :)

My partner and I experimented on the ECD tonight.  Fried a driver to the second frequency almost right off.  I got a picture of sine waves, with two frequencies.  We still have much more to do with our circuit and how we are wired to the ECD.  We did take Jason's advice and are using some very good Coax to input the frequencies to the ECD  (So many wires, so little time!  LOL)

IMPORTANT:

Does anyone realize how important a post, reply #688 was?  It is the EXACT thing I have been saying in my thread.  BEP also.  And if you read carefully there is some interesting information there!  (On a side note, the post after him had too much information.  I could make out watch batteries in the 6" under the tape, but never posted this.  Nor is it in any video.  Nor was the videos released two years ago, if I am not mistaken.)

Hi all. Great stuff you have here. Congrats. I too believe SM has it, as Tesla and Henry Moray before him. I have watched the videos, read the correspondences, and most of this posting here. I would like to make a few comments regarding SMs' words from the PDF on PESwiki and one video......He does mention earth resonant frequencies. (7.83Hz) He also speaks ALOT about Tesla, and his wacky TV story. I have been getting into "natural radio" (ELF) quite a bit lately. If I understand Schumann resonances and frequency harmonics at all, our "earth-resonant antenna" becomes 31.42' long @ 7.83MHz, or 314' @ 783KHz. I could be wrong. I have read that our 60Hz power system resonates with the Schumann cavity. I believe one of the coils acts as an antenna. Calculating toriod antennas may be different, but I know they are used for satellite. When he said to "never tune to exact frequencies of conversion" I suspected he meant this one. For it also appeared to me that the discord in the other frequencis is where the useable power comes from. The fact that the unit produces RF burns was another clue to me. The gyroscopic effect another. He also mentioned Tesla and "tuned magnetometers" His commentary could also be a bunch of B.S. too. Very good to see Bob Boyce here.
Now I have some questions:
1: Has anybody seen the UEC patents? I think the MPT are rubbish
2: Are you all in concensus that there is a battery in play here?

Its an honor to be here with such an astute group of folks, doing some of the greatest energy research for REAL public good in probably a century. Three words for the experimenters: SAFTEY, SAFTEY, SAFTEY! Don't cook yerself off with these great toys.

This is the answer to what is missing in our ECD, as I have been trying to say!!  I need help on the mechanic, but this IS how it needs to function.  (PLUS all of the other parts, of course.  3 frequencies, opposing, diffent sources, identical, out of phase slightly, etc)

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 04, 2007, 09:17:52 AM
Too  much info you say?   Then you tell us you have never heard it and that 'it does not exist'?     Be nice.  I'm new... and I have a great memory for details, but I don't recall 'where' I saw it... It was between Nov '05 and maybe June '06.  It must have been an early video because SM only had one 6" unit and he only powered two 60 Watt Table Lamps.  They seemed dim also, not full brightness, less so after screwing in the 2nd Lamp.  It was filmed in the same looking house from SM's left side from the end of a long folding table and some from accross the table.  The lamps were beyond SM, one on table, 2nd on the floor.  No Lamp Shades!   It was a short video.  He never mentioned Drills or TV's.  I only saw those later vid's here recently, where he had his Invertor to run a drill and TV.     

He insterted one camera sized "Button Cell / Watch type battery", thin and US Quarter Dollar sized.  He inserted it into the upper portion from the inside of the ring and the recepticle was slanted 45 degrees towards the middle.  He clearly stated:    "This battery was required to start the process"... I did not hear him say it needed to stay running, but it seemed like it did, unless it primed and then turned itself off.  This is why I've been asking all these questions!

This is why I asked if this thing still requires unbilical to freq' gen's in Reply #664, and again in #676.   I am still reading the posts or I would have realized you guys (or maybe just you) did not know about it.   I took that vague response to #676 question as "No", and kept on reading.  I guess Linsay meant 'Yes... still needs umbilicals'.  I wish GiantKiller was till posting.

Now you all out there, help find this video so the rest of you can see with your own eyes a 'rediscovered' artifact that surely matters! 
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HumblePie on July 04, 2007, 09:52:18 AM
BTW - Quote from http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t46394.html

"Earth's background base frequency, or "heartbeat," (called Schumann resonance, or SR) is rising dramatically. Though it varies among geographical regions, for decades the overall measurement was 7.8 cycles per second. This was once thought to be a constant; global military communications developed on this frequency. Recent reports set the rate at over 11 cycles, and climbin." 

This is because of HAARP ELF replacement technology.  Time is speeding up because of this.  See:  http://www.carnicom.com/time2.htm

So what is the resonance freq' today and what is the deviation so we can all design units that tune the correct frequency?  I see Otto's and Ronnette's pdf and wave forms.  The sinus pieces are displayed at 5uS time base. 

Where did they see 'pumping action at Schumann frequency'?  I don't see any time bases set that slow in the video or pdf.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 04, 2007, 11:53:01 AM
@Earl,

In ECD THERE's a MIXER and it's highly non-linear (logical kind mixer): all Mosfet's Drain pins are connected together.... there all the frequencies are indeed mixed and putting a scope probe there (ZERO point) you will see every kind of said by-products they make almost impossible to synch the scope trigger! There you can also appreciate some of the main mixing envelopes as if you select the right scope 'time line' it is possible to appreciate the main produced sum & differences frequencies just looking at the waveforms's envelope.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 04, 2007, 01:55:38 PM
Hello Bruce,

I'm waiting for a much better tests documentation! so go-on, clear the mess onto your table, put the Mosfet heat-sink NEAR the ECD (it means : in contact) then start your tests safely using firstly, just to search for freqs, PS voltage of no more of +6V. So you can have all the required time to setup Oscillator's level, freq sweet point (just start with an high range (100 -200KHz) it's easier and you don't risk to smoke anything! ..then medium range and only at the end the most dangerous low freq (20-80KHz).

But please put your scope probe on Phase point to look for sinus!.

Roberto
Title: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Earl on July 04, 2007, 02:52:44 PM
Roberto,

aahhh, you are meaning the drain to source intrinsic diode in each FET?
Because of large voltage change on drain, this reverse-biased capacitance could act as a varicap and also introduce a large capacity change during rise and fall times.  This may be a factor which is non-negligible.

This effect might change if using MacedoniaCD and Bob.R's two series diodes.
Interesting experiment to compare with 2 series diodes -  and with none.

This would not be present in a vacuum tube switch.

Regards, Earl
@Earl,

In ECD THERE's a MIXER and it's highly non-linear (logical kind mixer): all Mosfet's Drain pins are connected together.... there all the frequencies are indeed mixed and putting a scope probe there (ZERO point) you will see every kind of said by-products they make almost impossible to synch the scope trigger! There you can also appreciate some of the main mixing envelopes as if you select the right scope 'time line' it is possible to appreciate the main produced sum & differences frequencies just looking at the waveforms's envelope.
Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 04, 2007, 03:23:26 PM
Hi Earl,

this 2 diodes for 'isolating coil' after turn-off time is  somehow new and is intringuing me...I had already planned to check the effect. I'll do it easily probably this evening !.
I'll report on it.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 05:45:11 PM
Thank you Roberto!

I think perhaps we have the ECD control coils wired incorrectly.  Have you looked at the "simplified" diagram in the FAQ, to wire the ECD?  Is it accurate?  If so, I will follow that, and rewire on next attempt.  Also, what fried our driver, was some of the leads we soldered to it touched and it smoked.  No problem, we have plenty. 

I recommend to anyone building the circuit to use the other driver that Jason is using, simply for ease of use.  This driver is a booger to hook up because it is so tiny.  (for us inexperienced electronic people)

I also still think someone could make a mint, selling some of these, preassembled.  ;)

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 04, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
@Bruce,

please make reference to attached pdf for detailed ECD only dwg. For any problem PM me.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Technoalchemist on July 04, 2007, 06:34:54 PM
If anyone can find this "watch battery" video I would very much like to see it. All I ever saw was in the 2 lamps/cardboard box video where the cameraman asked him if there were any batteries, he gave a hesitant, if not sheepish "No.". So I don't necessarily doubt it. While it is VERY true that HAARP modifies the natural resonance, as with EEG attenuation/entrainment, when they shut it off, she (earth) returns to around 7.8Hz +/-, (as do our brains)....lol. There are many ELF, and other study groups that periodically measure and record this data. There are some that exclusively keep an eye on HAARP also. Recent data is available.
SM says "like a simple radio receiver", "variable tuning device", "the multiple frequencies are of too high a frequency to provide any motive effort", re-read the part about magnetometers....very telling. Why would the frequencies be "directly related to coil circumference"? Sadly. I was in a design process of an idea of my own based on Tesla and Henry Morays' work when I accidentally found SMs' work and you all less than a month ago. After reading all this, I kinda thought you almost the hard part figured out. So can you get even a LITTLE electricity out of a EM wave?...of course. How does a radio work. A CRYSTAL RADIO EVEN? But what component of the wave? How does a wideband ELF antenna work? dunno. You all are WAAAY more knowledgeable than I about electronics....very smart people. I think you need a hardcore ham radio guy in here. Unless he was another Stan Meyers, trying to throw youns off the path of his patents (which never surfaced, UEC or otherwise), I think he was trying to give you a COMPLETE pile of puzzle peices, as Tesla did.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: jacob on July 04, 2007, 07:12:58 PM
Otto and brnbrade (as well as myself and others here) followed the erfinder posts and drew inspiration from them. Otto based some ideas off of the VTA, or DTO, diagram, and brnbrade off of the mcfarland cook patent. Have you noticed how similar they are?

I have to say, if Otto's device is related, then so is brnbrades.

Otto has made claims that his device loses weight, has inertia, etc. already, on ctglabs. when dave asked him more about it he didn't answer. Nobody else has seen this yet. And we've seen lots of behavior of otto's coil that are most definitely not present in SM's device. SM has no problem touching his coils, it's quite dangerous in otto's. Although there is RF in SM's judging by the fire output, there doesn't seem to be massive fields in the room. Much more testing needs to be done. Otto only has bits and pieces of the whole picture. Others will have other parts.

Otto has already said his device is not overunity. From all accounts, that is correct. It's not. No thunder is being stolen, but we have to look at other angles in order to find the missing pieces that will make it overunity.

Have that thread moved back. It's a valid line of research and is clearly NOT disrespectful to SM. And is NOT distracting from Ottos work. They are very closely related, if you look closer.. 

Regards,
Rich

100% on target.

Thanks

Jacob
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: jacob on July 04, 2007, 07:14:35 PM
@ Stefan

I suggest upon successful replication of the brnbrade coil, it be moved BACK to this forum.  I concur completely with Rich in this matter.

Thank you,
Bruce  :)

Ditto!

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 04, 2007, 08:11:47 PM
@ Stefan,

May I suggest that you move ALL the topics with coil-like devices, into the TPU topic?

After all, if they use a coil, they must be related to the TPU somehow, right?

Arg...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 04, 2007, 08:26:17 PM
While it is VERY true that HAARP modifies the natural resonance, as with EEG attenuation/entrainment, when they shut it off, she (earth) returns to around 7.8Hz +/-, (as do our brains)....lol. There are many ELF, and other study groups that periodically measure and record this data. There are some that exclusively keep an eye on HAARP also. Recent data is available.
SM says "like a simple radio receiver", "variable tuning device", "the multiple frequencies are of too high a frequency to provide any motive effort", re-read the part about magnetometers....very telling. Why would the frequencies be "directly related to coil circumference"? Sadly. I was in a design process of an idea of my own based on Tesla and Henry Morays' work when I accidentally found SMs' work and you all less than a month ago. After reading all this, I kinda thought you almost the hard part figured out. So can you get even a LITTLE electricity out of a EM wave?...of course. How does a radio work. A CRYSTAL RADIO EVEN? But what component of the wave? How does a wideband ELF antenna work? dunno. You all are WAAAY more knowledgeable than I about electronics....very smart people. I think you need a hardcore ham radio guy in here. Unless he was another Stan Meyers, trying to throw youns off the path of his patents (which never surfaced, UEC or otherwise), I think he was trying to give you a COMPLETE pile of puzzle peices, as Tesla did.


Hello All.
Facinating that people who understand the clues are reaching about the same conclusion on this "bit" of TPU function/mechanics.  It should be experimented with asap as I have been pleading.  Artificially producing a ELF stationary wave, to play over the 3 high frequencies and see if more music is made.  And then exploring means to perhaps do this naturally by tuning the coil as an "effective" antenna as BEP suggests.  I have share before the special attributes of the frequencies given to us.  One is the frequency of the polaris lights and the other the frequency that ac is joined to lightning.  Mix in the ELF with those frequencies and we have power.  That is why it is "tuned" off of the exact Shumanns.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 05, 2007, 07:06:29 AM
Can I suggest you move this debate to the thread called: "A Place for Debate"

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: AhuraMazda on July 05, 2007, 10:35:50 AM
I hate to cross post but I feel a patent I posted in http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2624.msg38233.html#msg38233
should be looked by all those interested in the theory of TPU operation.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 05, 2007, 09:54:37 PM
I hate to cross post but I feel a patent I posted in http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2624.msg38233.html#msg38233
should be looked by all those interested in the theory of TPU operation.

I carry that patent with me now reading it over and over. If I do that, you all had better be doing it also. There is some mighty powerful physics and coil talk in there.

The alum ring coil is on my desktop. It has not been shelved. I am concentrating on the FET driver right now and that ring is in the chute for testing. All of us are all over the place. And I will tell you why. When I came on board in Aug 06, damn its been a year(are we having fun yet?), It was mostly theory and conjecture. I could of died. It was thick with 'Go nowhere'. Now you new guys are like shopping in Walmart. Everything is at your disposal.

Remember the Modified Turbo coil? PVC with notches cut into it? Can you say vertical wing? IS had seven of them and I think they had been laying around gathering dust and before that the bobbins on the wire where Sauron just pulled out of somewhere. Hmmm.

Time on board has its benefits.

And now just for grins lets throw this one out there. I just bought a shakem flashlight. I took it apart. Guess what I see? Part Little girl circuit, part stun gun. Instead of an internal spark gap I see flat mercury batteries. I say 'Hmmmm' again. That was worth $5.00USD.
Let's see, there are 3 phases to a geeks life.
Phase 1: take things apart, get in  trouble.
Phase 2: take things apart, get smart.
Phase 3: take things apart get stupid. I keep seeing the same things over and over again.
The shaking is the oscillator. Duh...

Honey? what's for dinner? Shake and break? And I helped!

--giantkiller. Yowser! Now I got to deGauss my monitor...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: weri812 on July 05, 2007, 11:17:43 PM
@ gk

i got me one of those flashlights too the cheep one had  2 watch batterys and a cap.  the large light had no batery as  such but a battery like cap, will get # later for  you.

now have a drawing

wer
ps found me some 4 ga audio wire  700 strands per cable was not cheep
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 06, 2007, 05:20:08 AM
Hi All,
if we need to do another community webcam session with some TPU builders,
we might just use:

http://ustream.tv/

http://ustream.tv/faq


This is a very easy flash based webcam portal,
where you can broadcast yourself for free and very easily from
your home to a wide audience the video together with sound
and everybody can see it in their webbrowser via
Flash.

So this is really nice and we should use this for better communication.

Also they have a recording feature, so people, who can not attend the live
show can later look at the recording,which is very nice for documentation !

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 06, 2007, 07:09:54 AM
pretty nice. I didn't like the fact that it kept freezing up and locked up my internet explorer though. needs work apparently.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 06, 2007, 05:32:44 PM
@ gk

i got me one of those flashlights too the cheep one had  2 watch batterys and a cap.  the large light had no batery as  such but a battery like cap, will get # later for  you.

now have a drawing

wer
ps found me some 4 ga audio wire  700 strands per cable was not cheep

Ain't they cool? Basically a charge pump with 1/2 magnetic shearing function. With the magnet moving in the coil you have a manual EMP producer. A step up transformer in place of the LED and you have the last 2 stages of a stun gun. Shake -n- Bake! Or a manual Tesla coil. Replace the voice coil with EZflow and you have a Shake -n- bake Tesla coil cigarette lighter. Whoohoo! Smoke em if ya got em.
This circuit also lends credance to the mentioning of diodes in the tpu to turn or conduct the BEMF into a charge pump. Instead of shaking the coil we just rotate the field throught the charge pump.
Ya see? Here I go again. I am so dangerous.... Tesla coil, stungun, TPU. Beauty is in the hand of the beholder.

What is the difference between shaking the flashlight and the TPU FET based controller? How fast you move the copper! It doesn't get any simpler. The flashlight is a puddle jumper, the TPU is a hydroplaner.

And that 4awg sweet stuff? Now your thinking! By hooking a large loop to a stun gun you effectively enhance or enlarge the output surface area for the RE to emit. It just keeps getting bigger, oops I mean better. 8)

I must now puff pompously by the fire.
--giantkiller. Boys will be boys.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 06, 2007, 05:56:45 PM
Hi all replicating ECD,

as promised I've done some tests with the two diodes isolating CC primary winding. In first fig you see in the upper trace the power Mosfet's Gate signal and in the lower the waveform probed on the coil's primary hot side.

The test conditions as it follows:

P.S. set at + 6 VDC
freq input = 100 KHz square wave
Diodes: shotkhy 10A with 1000V inverse voltage and nanosecond speed
Load: no load applied on output secondary winding

So it's clear that some weird does happen because during input off time i.e. when the mosfet is OFF, on the coils there's a 0.5 MHz - 100V oscillation with a 15% dumping effect. Clearly it seems to be the energy stored in the coil and then released.

I've been forced to operate at only +6 V (on P.S.) as the diodes soon are hot!!!!...using +12V within 3 sec the diodes are untouchable!. I wonder if someone has an explanation for this effect.

When I connected the 60 W lamp to second secondary winding the oscillation does vanish completely as in fig 2.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 06, 2007, 06:02:14 PM
....and if I keep this set up and input the normal 3 freqs at +12V...for few seconds ...look at the pic  (load connected).

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: c0mster on July 06, 2007, 07:29:49 PM
Slightly off topic.
I am moving all my videos to http://www.youtube.com/camster6
Save me posting everywhere.

Updates will be posted there.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 07, 2007, 04:01:45 AM
How's it going over here guys?

c0mster are you taking your "toys" and going "home"?   :D

So has anybody done a reliable power measurement yet?

Are we dealing with DC-to-DC converters here, or are we converting something more on the side?

So many people have built DC2DC converters, we've seen lots of lightbulbs light up. 

Where do we go from here?

LM, any more news/diagrams/videos from SM?

EM

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 07, 2007, 10:13:40 AM
@EM Devies I've seen your post alot ...so what is an em device ?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 07, 2007, 10:44:29 AM
Hi all working on ECD replication,

this is to inform you that due to my lab major re-structuring work I must now stop all the activities. Probably Otto will stay available for any question

Good luck to all

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 06:31:21 PM
@otto and @ronotte

I have taken some time to look over the ECD that I built. Granted I am not yet settled on the electronics and my frequency generator is on its way from Ebay. I want also to get a Pulse Generator.

But I have done many of testing, man to ECD, with DC pulsing manually at many voltages, some ac also and checking my good old trusty compass and voltmeter It's my way of getting to know the dynamics of the coils at maybe a primitive level, I know, but this gets you acquainted with the base field levels.

Here is a concern on the CC.

The winding starts bifilar primary and secondary, then the primary stops and the secondary continues thus covering the primary. Here is the problem.

Example my build. My primary is weight by weight so I have 8 feet of primary and 30 feet of secondary. Winding starts P/S bifilar till 8 feet then S for 22 feet. This means the primary only has 8 feet of secondary to transfer, not by current, but by induction to only 8 feet of the secondary.

If the object is too generate maximum transfer from Primary to Secondary to Ring, then I feel it is illogical to keep 22 feet out of the transfer potential. Here are a few alternatives.

I am enclosing a drawing of a cross section of a CC (ECD) plus three alternatives that I feel will get the job done more efficiently.

ECD+

Actually, this is the easiest modification. If you wind another primary over the cc, then use that primary as the primary and the secondary as the secondary and then send the frequencies into the bifilar primary. All three would be working their magic isolated so the mosfets would have less load on the negative. Also, you can isolate each internal primary to separate the frequencies.

ALT 1

Start winding the secondary on the coil first, then at 22 feet, continue the wind as P/S bifilar for 8 feet. This will push the induction inwards and your ECD should blast with less juice and your HF secondary would have its shield.

ALT 2

Start winding the secondary on the coil first, then at 22 feet, continue the wind as P/S bifilar for 8 feet, then continue with the secondary to make the outer secondary as the original.

Note: Since the secondary is HF and if you use an outer secondary, it feel it should be shielded. I am thinking that the coil should be in an aluminum tube so all the energy stays inside. You want all those frequencies to bounce back into the ring, not
bounce out into your brain.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 07, 2007, 06:45:50 PM
@wattsup,

I would encourage you to read up on some basic transformer theory.

The bifilar ECD coil is a basic step-up transformer, very similar, if not identical to those used for car ignitions (minus the core of course).

Also, read up and understand inductor coil parameters, and how they affect the inductance value. This will give you insights into the interaction between the P and S coils, and their relative positions.

The ECD and ALT1 scenario are not that much different actually.

You have incorrectly assumed that only 8 feet of the secondary will participate in the mutual induction from the primary. All 30 feet is in fact invloved. It's in the basic theory.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 07, 2007, 07:38:42 PM
Otto, a while ago, on dave's forums you siad that you could confirm that there were inertial effects, that it lost weight, and that there was a rotating field.

Can you please explain this a bit further, and what we must do in order to see these effects?

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on July 07, 2007, 07:43:22 PM
@z_p_e

Yes you are very right. I should read up another 1000 hours. Fine. Then explain to me what the object is of having that secondary outside the primary. What are you trying to achieve is the question. Next question is, is it acheiving its purpose. If yes, why. and if no, why?

A basic step-up transformer is not banking on its core acting like a ring. Very different. The ECD and ALT1 are very different if you look at it from the rings' perspective.

My basic idea is that the outer portion of the secondary is being kept outside by the internal primary field, hence the outer secondary has no effect on the ring, because the ring is being cloaked by the primary being to close to the ring. What you are talking about is the current effect, what I am talking about is the field effect. Simple as that.

All I wanted to do is put forth an idea. Wrapping another primary over the CC as in the ECD+ is very easy to do and try so I will do it myself.

No sweat.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 07, 2007, 09:17:16 PM
@z_p_e

Yes you are very right. I should read up another 1000 hours. Fine. Then explain to me what the object is of having that secondary outside the primary. What are you trying to achieve is the question. Next question is, is it acheiving its purpose. If yes, why. and if no, why?

A basic step-up transformer is not banking on its core acting like a ring. Very different. The ECD and ALT1 are very different if you look at it from the rings' perspective.

My basic idea is that the outer portion of the secondary is being kept outside by the internal primary field, hence the outer secondary has no effect on the ring, because the ring is being cloaked by the primary being to close to the ring. What you are talking about is the current effect, what I am talking about is the field effect. Simple as that.

All I wanted to do is put forth an idea. Wrapping another primary over the CC as in the ECD+ is very easy to do and try so I will do it myself.

No sweat.

Hi guys,
If you look at the ECD doc the primary is wrapped around the secondary. But both windings are tied together at the cw input side so this will not make a step up. You will have differences in the impedance and the slight phase shift increasing at the higher freqs. You will also see phase cancellation at the other end of the primaries. The secondaries will see phase cancellation at the load but in a longer time frame.
The first thought has to be the dynamic impedance across the segments and the unit as a whole. In others words, this thing is alive way beyond the standard thinking.
So the standard operation only takes play when the unit is first turned on. After that the 1,2,3 freqs should control our thinking. Clashing, bashing, clipping, hashing makes for an incredible noisy beast. When I flipped through freqs on the GK4 the scope was unreadable in normal terms but the 'woven indian blanket' patterns were very exciting. When I put the stun gun through it all bets were off because all I could see were the dartlets from the coil and the scope was useless. PHTvTvTvTvTvtVtVtVtVtVtVttttt(simulated stung gun sound effect), know what I mean? That was all I had to report. Talking about standard measurements was a joke. The running unit has to be on your bench.
I have thought there would have been other 'full experience, shock & awe' tests by now.

--giantkiller. Rompin, trompin, & stompin....
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 07, 2007, 10:22:52 PM

 But both windings are tied together at the cw input side so this will not make a step up.


Hi ,
in the early transformers the primary was actually a part of the secondary and vice versa...

How difficult is it to hook up a ammeter between the grid and the power supply?

we need some facts here people.

M.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 07, 2007, 10:27:18 PM
Otto, a while ago, on dave's forums you siad that you could confirm that there were inertial effects, that it lost weight, and that there was a rotating field.

Can you please explain this a bit further, and what we must do in order to see these effects?

Regards,
Rich

Rich, i have asked him the same question more then once, you know.
He just ignores it.

M.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: threepointone on July 07, 2007, 11:32:17 PM
There's one very, very, very, very important factor that seems to not have been taken into account in any of the measurements: power factor conversion. This factor is most prevalent when you're dealing with large inductive or capacitive loads, such as the coils you're using.

Ohm's law works fine when you're working with pure DC, but when you have AC, square waves, or whatnot, things get kind of funky. Current and voltage go out of phase; in other words, the average current might be 2A, and the average voltage might be 5V, but at the instant the current is 2A, there might be 0V, and at the instant there's 5V there's only 0A. In this case, the apparent power (which is what you calculate and measure using the resistor voltage drop / standard DC measurement techniques) would probably be around 10W, while the real power provided is much less. You pretty much have to add up V*I at every instant of time to get a good real average power reading. I suspect this may be what's happening in some of the videos documenting this "TPU". The best way I know of to measure real power from the AC mains is a device called the kill-a-watt; it'll measure the PFC and real watts for you. I'm not sure how you'd do it for lower voltage AC; you might have to design your own circuit to do it, or somehow interpose a current and voltage graph on an oscilloscope, ensuring they're perfectly in phase, and then calculating the power coming out at every instant (unfortunately not very easy or fun).

There's a entry on power factor conversion in wikipedia, and probably much more across the web. This is a very big area of concern for power supplies, UPSes, and electric companies; usually low PFC devices (those where apparent power > real power) are pretty nasty and pollute the power grid.

Also keep in mind that power <> energy. For example, you can charge a capacitor in 5s using 100W, and get out 500W in 1s without breaking conservation of energy.

good luck with all your endeavors!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 03:10:57 AM
Hi threepointone,

I am currently working on a document that will hopefully address this power measurement issue, and more.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention however.

Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 08, 2007, 04:00:31 AM
Quote from: giantkiller link=topic=2535.msg38896#msg38896
Hi guys,
If you look at the ECD doc the primary is wrapped around the secondary. But both windings are tied together at the cw input side so this will not make a step up.

GK,

I'm not sure which document you are referring to, but if it is Roberto's pdf, I can't agree with your statement that the primary is wrapped around the secondary.

The CC is bifilar for as long as the primary winding lasts. After that, the secondary continues wrapping over top of the primary/secondary bifilar. So if anything, your statement should be reversed.

In regards to the CC being a step-up transformer or not, it quite clearly is. Secondary windings and inductance is higher than that of the primary's.

Attached here is Figure 4 from an ignition coil patent #4,516,559. If you look at either the "otto_roberto_simplified01.pdf" or "otto_roberto_simplified02.pdf" files that I posted some time ago, you will see they are almost exactly like the patent figure below. I found this patent diagram only now for illustration purposes of this post.

If you agree that an ignition coil is a step-up transformer (which it is), then you must also agree that the CC is a step-up transformer as well.

Darren
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 08, 2007, 08:44:21 AM
Otto, a while ago, on dave's forums you siad that you could confirm that there were inertial effects, that it lost weight, and that there was a rotating field.

Can you please explain this a bit further, and what we must do in order to see these effects?

Regards,
Rich

Rich, i have asked him the same question more then once, you know.
He just ignores it.

M.

Roberto won't. I know otto is a "busy" guy. But Roberto is a very amenable and friendly person who understands the need to answer a question once in a while.

Perhaps you could field the question I asked roberto? Have you noticed any of the effects mentioned by Otto? or has he spoken to you about them?

I have heard him repeatedly talk about the rotation of field in particular, yet nobody has gotten a compass to spin. If the frequencies start too high, then it won't happen, but if he cannot see it that way, how does he determine he has a rotating field?

Second, how did he determine weight loss in the device? Or, if you have noticed it(have you?) How did you measure weight loss?

Third, have you or otto (yes or no) noticed the washboard effect, or inertial effects of the device?

Otto made claims to the effect on all of these effects, yet spoke no further on it.. I have been dying to know more ever since. These are important clues, and need to be understood.

Please let me know all you can on these points. Also know that these questions are coming from a believer. Not an outright skeptic.

we need open communication or this whole thing falls apart. That is what I'm trying to prevent.

I think answering these questions will renew a level of excitement and enthusiasm.

I also think, dropping those claims out there and saying nothing further on it, was a bit torturous to us. Especially the believers.

I originally thought it was because otto thought once we built it we would see them, but nobody has to my knowlege. I know cam tested for the rotating field, but I don't think anyone tested for weight loss. And since we can't really touch the device in operation, I don't think folks have seen the inertia, or washboard effect either.

Thank you, Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on July 08, 2007, 05:26:26 PM
There's one very, very, very, very important factor that seems to not have been taken into account in any of the measurements: power factor conversion. This factor is most prevalent when you're dealing with large inductive or capacitive loads, such as the coils you're using.

Ohm's law works fine when you're working with pure DC, but when you have AC, square waves, or whatnot, things get kind of funky. Current and voltage go out of phase; in other words, the average current might be 2A, and the average voltage might be 5V, but at the instant the current is 2A, there might be 0V, and at the instant there's 5V there's only 0A. In this case, the apparent power (which is what you calculate and measure using the resistor voltage drop / standard DC measurement techniques) would probably be around 10W, while the real power provided is much less. You pretty much have to add up V*I at every instant of time to get a good real average power reading. I suspect this may be what's happening in some of the videos documenting this "TPU". The best way I know of to measure real power from the AC mains is a device called the kill-a-watt; it'll measure the PFC and real watts for you. I'm not sure how you'd do it for lower voltage AC; you might have to design your own circuit to do it, or somehow interpose a current and voltage graph on an oscilloscope, ensuring they're perfectly in phase, and then calculating the power coming out at every instant (unfortunately not very easy or fun).

There's a entry on power factor conversion in wikipedia, and probably much more across the web. This is a very big area of concern for power supplies, UPSes, and electric companies; usually low PFC devices (those where apparent power > real power) are pretty nasty and pollute the power grid.

Also keep in mind that power <> energy. For example, you can charge a capacitor in 5s using 100W, and get out 500W in 1s without breaking conservation of energy.

good luck with all your endeavors!

This issue has been raised many times on these threads and needs repeating from time to time.

To my knowledge Otto and Roberto have not yet reported their current measurements using filters with a battery as a power supply. Using a small Killowatt meter to take a mains power reading would be a useful bit of data. These are currently available in the UK from some DIY stores and are very innexpensive and probably available in other countries.

Clive
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 09, 2007, 04:54:32 AM
Quote from: giantkiller link=topic=2535.msg38896#msg38896
Hi guys,
If you look at the ECD doc the primary is wrapped around the secondary. But both windings are tied together at the cw input side so this will not make a step up.

GK,

I'm not sure which document you are referring to, but if it is Roberto's pdf, I can't agree with your statement that the primary is wrapped around the secondary.

The CC is bifilar for as long as the primary winding lasts. After that, the secondary continues wrapping over top of the primary/secondary bifilar. So if anything, your statement should be reversed.

In regards to the CC being a step-up transformer or not, it quite clearly is. Secondary windings and inductance is higher than that of the primary's.

Attached here is Figure 4 from an ignition coil patent #4,516,559. If you look at either the "otto_roberto_simplified01.pdf" or "otto_roberto_simplified02.pdf" files that I posted some time ago, you will see they are almost exactly like the patent figure below. I found this patent diagram only now for illustration purposes of this post.

If you agree that an ignition coil is a step-up transformer (which it is), then you must also agree that the CC is a step-up transformer as well.

Darren

You are correct. I have wrapped overlapping jacket style, semi-bifilar on the cross-sectional plane. Not side by side on the face of the tubing. I think I am burning out. Seen much too much lately. Looking at everything cross-eyed.

I am still finishing up the controller. It has a bug in it. I swap chips and a channel doesn't work. The malfunctioning channel is never the same one when I change out chips. OUch!.

--giantkiller.
Title: Replication Results
Post by: Jon on July 09, 2007, 05:00:10 AM
I have created a document with my results so far recreating the TPU. You can see it here: http://www.freeenergygroup.com/FEG-Results.pdf
Title: Re: Replication Results
Post by: giantkiller on July 09, 2007, 05:25:58 AM
I have created a document with my results so far recreating the TPU. You can see it here: http://www.freeenergygroup.com/FEG-Results.pdf

I am flattered. Thank you for these tests. It should be noted that the GK4 has 3 rings of 22 turns 16awg iron wire. What you have there looks alot like the GK3. It was a power hog and did not produce any anomalies but did show the comparison of awg to current draw. It did blow trannys. Nothing unknown there now but at the time the configuration of windings still held some magic with the current set of posters. As you might be able to tell that those renditions don't show up any more. Alot of us fell prey to the mystery. But we got to prove it, right? Either the TPU mystery will survive or we will. Somethings got to give.

Again, thanks. I wish you to continue on with your style of investigation. A new mindset is always welcome.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 09, 2007, 09:01:02 AM
Hello all,

@Rich

sorry, Im weekends at my workbench and dont even look at the forum.

About the weight of a TPU:

A looong time ago I made a TPU, as we all did. 4 segments and the Tesla patent 390721 for a rotational magnetic field.

The weight of a 6" should be ...gramms (sorry, dont remember).
I measured the weight of my TPU. Then I got an idea:
To measure the weight of my TPU while pulsing it. And so I did it.
At a very low frequency of about 1 - 5 Hz I pulsed my TPU. In the same time I could clearly see that this TPU changes its weight.

So, its clear that the TPU pulsed in the needed frequency ranges should produce energy and in the same time its weight should and will decrease.

Otto
Title: which apparatus to measure weight ?
Post by: Earl on July 09, 2007, 09:58:41 AM
Hi Otto,

what device did you use to measure the weight?
a mechanical balance ?
a spring scale ?
electronic load cell type ?

Keep up the good work, regards, Earl

Hello all,
@Rich
[snip]
I measured the weight of my TPU. Then I got an idea:
To measure the weight of my TPU while pulsing it. And so I did it.
At a very low frequency of about 1 - 5 Hz I pulsed my TPU. In the same time I could clearly see that this TPU changes its weight.

So, its clear that the TPU pulsed in the needed frequency ranges should produce energy and in the same time its weight should and will decrease.
Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 09, 2007, 11:32:06 AM
Hi Earl,

I used a mechanical balance. I was a few meters away from my TPU because I didnt want to influence in a way my equipment.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 09, 2007, 04:14:36 PM
Hello all,

@Rich

sorry, Im weekends at my workbench and dont even look at the forum.

About the weight of a TPU:

A looong time ago I made a TPU, as we all did. 4 segments and the Tesla patent 390721 for a rotational magnetic field.

The weight of a 6" should be ...gramms (sorry, dont remember).
I measured the weight of my TPU. Then I got an idea:
To measure the weight of my TPU while pulsing it. And so I did it.
At a very low frequency of about 1 - 5 Hz I pulsed my TPU. In the same time I could clearly see that this TPU changes its weight.

So, its clear that the TPU pulsed in the needed frequency ranges should produce energy and in the same time its weight should and will decrease.

Otto

THANK YOU!! for the reply Otto!.

That is simply an amazing results. I will definitely try this with my ECD. If I can't do it with three control coils I will rewire with four controls per 390721. I think they do not actually lose weight (antigravity), but repel themselves from the earth's magnetic field. What are your thoughts on that?

I know you also said at one point that when you were working with the 390721 patents, that the rotation of field happened very easily as well. You also said, that using four controls is ok for ECD tests, as long as you wired according to that patent. But with three, if you wired it according to the ECD diagrams it would give the same result with only three controls.

When you measured the spinning field how did you do that? With a compass? For some reason Cam could not find it that way. I don't know if he did something wrong or not, but the compass would only point one way. Perhaps this should be done with 390721 too?

Also, how did you test the inertial effects? Just by feeling it with your hands? That's good enough for me, but it seems to dangerous to hold. Could I just bolt it down to a piece of plywood then? and feel it that way?

Again THANKS for the response, and proving people wrong about getting a response. I appreciate this alot! It will help me in my testing.

Also, I know you and roberto have made some progress, can you guys re-test these conditions? And report the results? See if they are still there? I really think these are indicators of the true conversion process happening in SM's device.

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on July 09, 2007, 05:03:46 PM
Synchronize two watches - place one in center of ring - place one outside ring - run for several minutes.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 09, 2007, 10:01:07 PM
now that is intresting, if we look at the Carl doc,

16.  It makes sense that if we are moving a relatively weak magnetic field at very high RPM or lap rate, then perhaps we are now also talking about a gravitic interaction.  Since it appears that gravity and spinning superconducting magnets are related, and we are spinning this field at a VERY high rate, then the orientation on startup is most likely also directly interacting with "gravitons?"  I won't go there, as I know too little about the field.  Suffice it to say, that gravity is directional, be it into the earth or into space from the earth's center.  Either way it is directional.  Inverting the toroid MAY then be affected in operation or stopped when it is inverted.  Has Steven Mark solved this?  It sounds SOOOOO interesting.  And naturally, with smaller toroids, he is also talking about higher angular acceleration of the field, due to the smaller diameter.  Maybe this also has a bearing on the trait?

one would asume the weight loss is due to the high speed rotational field, however Otto here is pulsing his coils at the verry low frequency of 0-5 Hertz.

Tonight i will stare out of the window for a couple of minutes to see if there are any Tesla transformers flying by.

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 10, 2007, 12:27:00 AM

Tonight i will stare out of the window for a couple of minutes to see if there are any Tesla transformers flying by.

Marco.


Marco...

Read this...

http://www.ufoevidence.org/govtdocs/PageView.asp?DocCode=FBI2&page=4

this occured in 1947, the day before roswell, read what happened, then read the device description.

Then the inscription on the device. "Made in USA'

Regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 02:20:02 AM
Rich, that's so awesome, a flying disk made of aluminum with some coils.  WOW !!!

What could be in the center object?  florescent starter or battery enclosure with some electronics? (blocking oscillator maybe?)  :)

It sounds like a "runaway" TPU, it was hot and shooting some fire out, after it landed it caught the grass on fire maybe and smoke came out.  Hmmmm, very interesting.

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 02:42:50 AM
<retyped by me for clarity>


FBI NEW ORLEANS         7-7-47
DIRECTOR FBI         V E R Y     U R G E N T
FLYING DISCS,  MISCELLANEOUS.

[AGENT X] SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA ADVISES HE OBSERVED A CIRCULAR DISC AT SIX FIVE PM THIS DATE COMING FROM N.W. DIRECTION.  DISC LANDED IN FIFTEEN HUNDRED BLOCK OF TEXAS AVENUE.  [AGENT X] PICKED UP DISC AT FIFTEEN FIFTY FOUR TEXAS AVENUE.   DISC WHIRLING WHEN SEEN IN AIR AND FIRE SEEN SPOUTING FROM SIDES.  FIRE WENT OUT ON LANDING AND SMOKE ISSUED FEW SECONDS AFTER FIRE WENT OUT.  DISC PICKED UP AND NOT HOT.  [AGENT X] NOTIFIED G-2 BARKSDALE IMMEDIATELY AND THEY TOOK DISC BEFORE SA ARRIVED.

DISC DESCRIPTION – THIN ALUMINUM DISC SIXTEEN INCHES IN DIAMETER.  HAS SMALL COILS TWO INCHES IN DIAMETER AND FOUR INCHES LONG AT THE ENDS OF THE DIAMETER.  COILS CONNECTED BY TWO COPPER WIRES TO THE TERMINALS ON EACH COIL AND THESE WIRES ARE CONNECTED AT THE CROSSING IN THE CENTER OF THE DISC TO AN OBJECT ONE INCH IN DIAMETER BY TWO INCHES LONG, SIMILAR TO STARTER ON FLOURESCENT LIGHT.  CENTER OBJECT [W]AS ON UPPER END-    [BLANK LINE]

[…..] – MADE IN USA – MADE SOUND LIKE A POLICEMAN-S WHISTLE AND SMOOTH SIDE TOWARD EARTH IN FLIGHT.  BARKSDALE FIELD AGREED IF NOT [……] WOULD TURN OVER TO FBI IF WE WANT IT SUBJECT TO SUPERIOR INSTRUCTIONS.  NAMES OF ALL PERSONS WHO HANDLED DISC BEFORE ARRIVAL OF AGENT SECURED.  […..] BARKSDALE FIELD MAKING PHOTOS.  WILL SECURE AND FORWARD PHOTOS TO BUREAU.   [….] BELIEVED PRESS AWARE OF INCIDENT.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 10, 2007, 03:13:56 AM
Oops! that sounds like the one that got away from me two weeks from now  ;D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 03:28:08 AM
about 20 years ago I experimented with an aluminum plate and 4 coils attached to it's four corners on one side only.  I plugged the thing in the AC outlet.    It hummed but did not lift up.  The theory was that at certain angles between the aluminum plate and the coils, the plate which repels itself due to eddy currents, would also take the coils with it somehow (disconect between the coil and the magnetic field? who knows).   However, it never worked, but if the coils were detached from the plate, the plate would repel upward quite strongly and would drift to the side and fall.   Almost like those ring demonstrations in a physics class.

In the FBI report we seem to have a description of exactly what I was trying to do.  I think the missing ingredient here is the round (disc)  feature and perhaps a ROTATING MAGNETIC FIELD.  I was laking the electrical phasing between coils, that's for sure, else it might have flown even with a square plate.

This has to be a TPU like device, since what's in the center of the device would be two small to power it up so strongly.  What can a 1 inch by two inch cylinder contain, a CAPACITOR?

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 10, 2007, 03:50:19 AM
Wouldn't it be interesting if members of this forum - and others- were the actual reason for the flying saucer stories?
Hmmm.... Maybe that part of history didn't exist until we started mucking around now.
Most of the descriptions sound like TPUs being built by hobbyists in their garage. A circular saw blade?
On second thought maybe I better try one.

EVERYBODY DUCK!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 04:00:29 AM
Is this what the UFO DISC might have looked like?

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 04:49:17 AM
First page of the FOIA documents Rich posted has another interesting description:



TO          :  D. M.  Ladd                    DATE:
FROM      :  [....]                              July  11,  1947
SUBJECT  : FLYING DISCS

     SAC ?annister of the Bute Office called at noon today and stated that a [...................] Twin Falls, Idaho, at 2:45 a.m. Mountain Time today heard a noise in the back of her home.  She thought a collision had occurred and investigated and found in the back yard of the home next door an object described as follows:

     A disc 30 1/2 " in diameter, circular in shape, it is dished like a saucer and actually there is a saucer whithin a saucer in the manner of cymbals.  On one surface there is attached a plastic dome described as about 14" in diameter and affixed by 8 bolts in a rather rough manner.  The bolts can best be described as similar to stove bolts.  On the other surface is another dome of metal which is gold in color on one side and on the inside is silver in color, which looks like tin.  Through the plastic dome can be observed three tubes similar to radio tubes and there is some wiring.  The disc generally is 10" thick and at the point where the domes are located about 14" in thickness.  There is an object on it similar to electric coil which has some type of an arm on it and bears the words "Inspected TS".  Some of the wiring has been burned off and it looks as though something might be missing.

    [......] stated that if this were the work of some prankster he went to quite a bit of trouble.  He stated the press is aware of this incident.  He stated that the disc had been picked up and was now at the Police Department, Twin Falls, Idaho.  He was instructed to notify the local Army authorities of the existence of this disc.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 04:56:33 AM
I'm so pumped up now !!!!   

Three Tubes like in Radio tubes, wow.   Talk about some solid clues here folks.

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 10, 2007, 04:56:54 AM
I believe the news paper in that area was the Times Picayune (Shrevport), maybe the paper could be researched. Maybe it was a photon ring experiment gone wrong , I have heard they seem to fly away under certain conditions. moyer ? I like the saw blade thingy better hahahahah.  what did Esa say prime number on the rotating disk was 13  off set 4mm and spinning at 2400rpm mmmmmm ...>>>>>> it went that way hahahahah
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 05:07:20 AM
Good suggestion Motorcoach1,  if anybody lives in Shrevport Louisiana, or near by, please go to the library and do a search on the newspaper.  They might have a photo :)   That would be so nice !!

It's starting to sound like all these things are runaway devices.  In 1947 the military did not quite figure out how to control them yet.

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 05:11:02 AM
     A disc 30 1/2 " in diameter, circular in shape, it is dished like a saucer and actually there is a saucer whithin a saucer in the manner of cymbals.  On one surface there is attached a plastic dome described as about 14" in diameter and affixed by 8 bolts in a rather rough manner.  The bolts can best be described as similar to stove bolts.  On the other surface is another dome of metal which is gold in color on one side and on the inside is silver in color, which looks like tin.  Through the plastic dome can be observed three tubes similar to radio tubes and there is some wiring.  The disc generally is 10" thick and at the point where the domes are located about 14" in thickness.  There is an object on it similar to electric coil which has some type of an arm on it and bears the words "Inspected TS".  Some of the wiring has been burned off and it looks as though something might be missing.


There is something else that directly fits these parameters gentlemen...

Might I call you attention to this 'much slept on' article!

http://www.blazelabs.com/e-exp10.asp

Just think to yourself, 'what if I could make a magnet without a coil, without 'current', but with a simple rotating charged disc, whereby the CURRENT that makes it MAGNETIC FIELD is produced by the mechanical rotating of this disc?!?!?'

Mechanical not good enough for ya?

Then voila, I think it's time you looked at the last page of this solid state, rotating charged, device:
Patent Number:
FR1253902 (which by the way, is at the beginning of that blazelabs page I posted above)
http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/bnsviewer?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPD&PN=FR1253902&ID=FR+++1253902A++I+ (http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/bnsviewer?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPD&PN=FR1253902&ID=FR+++1253902A++I+)

You might want to NOTE that, that image on the last page, it has exactly three 'radio tubes', which, combined with the other elements, allow for a VERY FAST, ROTATING, CHARGE FIELD, that produces a VERY LARGE MAGNETIC FIELD....

Might one say,'HMMMMMMM??'


PS - I wasn't intending on releasing all this yet, as this device, or more so, a variant of it, is to be used for an FE device of another sorts, but since it fits dead on with that UFO sighting, I thought you all should see it now. I advise you to READ CAREFULLY, and to NOT ONLY THINK ABOUT UFOs, THINK about how this device can be used for FE...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Grumpy on July 10, 2007, 05:39:22 AM
Where are you going with this, Tao?

SM thought your were on the edge of discovery - wasted emotion.  Now the prodigal son has returned with gifts for all.  Makes bile rise into my throat.

Are you going to tell us that the Holy Grail sits within a rotating magnet field?  Tell us about bias perhaps, or phase shifts, or maybe about tensors and potentials, gradients, divergences, curls?  Or maybe how the RMF is able to magnify itself, after all, the magnetic field is elastic, unlike the tempic field which is pretty damn solid.  Do you think no one sees?  That no one has the intuitive skills?  That we lack the understanding?  Do you wish to show us the light? Perhaps we already know.  Very strong magnetic field can "catch" a UFO - stop it on a dime, but better be a damn strong field or they will park that ship up your arse.   You can rotate it and project it.   You can rotate the potential that creates it - much stronger by the way - really make something happen with that one.

So, spare us the endless string of "pearls of knowledge" and build the damn thing.

I'll put it in simple terms - "shit or get off the pot".  Theories are like assholes - everybody has one, so put it to use or  put a cork in it.  I'm freakin' sick of theories, ideas, concepts - they are not tangible - they are not real - they bequeath nothing but hot air and a reaking stinch of fear.

Build it - just freakin' build it!!!
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 05:41:11 AM
I think that's the right idea tao, you're heading in the right direction looking at the UFO patents.  I was just about to start researching patents from the 1940 related to rings and UFOs  :)

I wonder why the blazerlabs guys didn't show a lifting disk from a coil or magnet?  They talk about it, they do the calculations, but don't show it.   Why I wonder?    I'll tell you why I think that is,  I did the same calculations he did, but from another perspective, and the 'B' field is so small, extreamly small.   Notice they didn't plug in any values into their equations.  By theway, this relationship between spinning charges and magnetic fields was also researched by some of the early guys like Faraday,  I found the experiment in a book at Barnes and Noble, a while ago.   I should of bought the book but I have too many already :)

Anyway,  what's apparent and logical is that a rotating magnetic field will do wonderful things.  I read all those FOIA documents in 2000 but I was reading them with another frame of mind.  Now that I've been involved with the TPU, it all seems to click.   It makes sense why SM was visited by the FBI folks.  They don't want people flying around, THEY COULD GET HURT !!!   Ha  Ha  Ha  :)

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Motorcoach1 on July 10, 2007, 05:41:54 AM
@ Tao a while back I was building a coil from Tesla's LMD circuit that JNL labs tested. what i tried is to take a resonant magnifier and run it the circuit. what I  used was from an negative air Ionizer schematic (about 3kv) and it went wild wipe out out my scope and freq unit. so I was lost- but thinking back I feel I just added to many diodes and caps and it got there to fast and did not have a safety to shut it down. I don't recomend building one of that power but the light show was great. live and learn  Mike
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 05:48:38 AM
Where are you going with this, Tao?

SM thought your were on the edge of discovery - wasted emotion.  Now the prodigal son has returned with gifts for all.  Makes bile rise into my throat.

Are you going to tell us that the Holy Grail sits within a rotating magnet field?  Tell us about bias perhaps, or phase shifts, or maybe about tensors and potentials, gradients, divergences, curls?  Or maybe how the RMF is able to magnify itself, after all, the magnetic field is elastic, unlike the tempic field which is pretty damn solid.  Do you think no one sees?  That no one has the intuitive skills?  That we lack the understanding?  Do you wish to show us the light? Perhaps we already know.  Very strong magnetic field can "catch" a UFO - stop it on a dime, but better be a damn strong field or they will park that ship up your arse.   You can rotate it and project it.   You can rotate the potential that creates it - much stronger by the way - really make something happen with that one.

So, spare us the endless string of "pearls of knowledge" and build the damn thing.

I'll put it in simple terms - "shit or get off the pot".  Theories are like assholes - everybody has one, so put it to use or  put a cork in it.  I'm freakin' sick of theories, ideas, concepts - they are not tangible - they are not real - they bequeath nothing but hot air and a reaking stinch of fear.

Build it - just freakin' build it!!!

The ONE THING I will NEVER DO is TRY or EXPECT to CHANGE or ALTER ANYONES FREE WILL in this world!

I have spent the MOST TIME on the TPU more than anyone, I can guarantee that. Up to and over 8 hours a day, for months...

I EXPLAINED why I left, I left FOR YOU ALL, so, how dare you.

In regards to the post I just made, 2 posts prior to this, I posted this to HELP those people looking at the UFO story to see another possibility.

In regards to my 'PS' at the end of that post, it isn't a cryptic TPU thing.

I have been one of the top 3 people to offer the MOST complete and concise theories and messages about many a topics at OU.com

Not to mention, without theories or any THOUGHT, how could you EVER hope to build anything?!?

I don't need to ANSWER to you, EVERYONE HERE KNOWS WHAT I AM ABOUT, and I GUARANTEE, they will see that YOU ARE OUT OF LINE...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 05:51:34 AM
tao, I think you better build your thread or Grumpy is going to explode.   The expectation is killing  him !!    Ha  Ha  :)

EM

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on July 10, 2007, 05:55:52 AM
Hi tao:

Thank you for sharing with us your theory and experiments. I sure am looking forward to your sharing, as with a lot of other people. Grumpy seems to have a chip on his shoulders for whatever reasons. We'll have to go on without him then.

Regards
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Dansway on July 10, 2007, 05:57:26 AM
@Tao,

Why do you think he calls himself GRUMPY?

Keep the course bud, you're doing great!  We look forward to your posts.

~Dan
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 06:00:00 AM
I think that's the right idea tao, you're heading in the right direction looking at the UFO patents.  I was just about to start researching patents from the 1940 related to rings and UFOs  :)

I wonder why the blazerlabs guys didn't show a lifting disk from a coil or magnet?  They talk about it, they do the calculations, but don't show it.   Why I wonder?    I'll tell you why I think that is,  I did the same calculations he did, but from another perspective, and the 'B' field is so small, extreamly small.   Notice they didn't plug in any values into their equations.  By theway, this relationship between spinning charges and magnetic fields was also researched by some of the early guys like Faraday,  I found the experiment in a book at Barnes and Noble, a while ago.   I should of bought the book but I have too many already :)

Anyway,  what's apparent and logical is that a rotating magnetic field will do wonderful things.  I read all those FOIA documents in 2000 but I was reading them with another frame of mind.  Now that I've been involved with the TPU, it all seems to click.   It makes sense why SM was visited by the FBI folks.  They don't want people flying around, THEY COULD GET HURT !!!   Ha  Ha  Ha  :)

EM

I agree with you EM, it might very well be that the B field is much too low. I did some calculations too, and it was very low. I was just wondering if, given a large enough disc, or some disc stacked on each other, and the fact that the angular speed of the disc sort of 'simulates' the electron flow down the wire, that we might be able to have a nice enough B field.

Perhaps a B field nice enough to be used in a magnet motor...

That is what my PS was alluding to, other potential uses in other devices.

Say you use a magnet motor like the Sprain Motor.
Now, have a disc with aluminum on both sides of it, what is that?, it's a cap.
Now, attach that disc to a shaft such that when your magnet motor is running, a gear down/up causes that disc to spin very fast.
Now, when the rotor gets to that locking point, transfer energy (almost losslessly) to that CAP(our now charged up rotating disc)
That would then induce a magnetic field, and allow the rotor to pass the locking point.
It would then be at THAT moment that you transfer (almost losslessly) energy OUT of that CAP(our rotating charged disc)

Sure seems like a nice ON/OFF Magnet......

How to transer the energy almost losslessly, there are a couple ways, one being a simple resonant circuit....


PS - To those guys who posted just prior to this one, Thanks! Appreciate it...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 10, 2007, 06:03:24 AM

Not to mention, without theories or any THOUGHT, how could you EVER hope to build anything?!?


Precisely.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Aphasiac on July 10, 2007, 06:23:12 AM
In my undergrad days, I took an R.A. position collecting evidence of plagiarism in student submissions. At first it was like searching for a needle in a haystack, but I got pretty good at it.

Anyway... not to be off the point, but I just wanted to say that I think you guys set a new standard for finding needles in haystacks (or TPU maps in the sky, as the case may be). Your research is key; all of you know this already. Keep it up!

--Mark.





Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 10, 2007, 07:27:02 AM
Well, i hope to see we will all be flying around in suspicious devices soon... :)

This brings me to the point where i am thinking about a normal galvanic insulated tranformer.
As we put an AC on the primary winding of the transformer, it induces a current in the secondary winding, but the major thing is, the electrons flowing in the secondary circuit has got nothing to do with the electrons running in the primary circuit.
They cannot reach each other since the circuits are isolated from each other.
So the thing is, the electrons running in the secondary circuit are not comming from the wall!!

They can't because they cannot reach the wall socked since they are not connected to it.

That gives me a new view on things and i need to think about it some more...
Pherhaps the electrons in the secondary circuit are the ones sitting in the wires already, i mean they have to come from somewhere don't they?
Then it would be a matter of only pumping them around.

...

Creating Electron flow in wire.
Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 07:32:22 AM
Well, i hope to see we will all be flying around in suspicious devices soon... :)

This brings me to the point where i am thinking about a normal galvanic insulated tranformer.
As we put an AC on the primary winding of the transformer, it induces a current in the secondary winding, but the major thing is, the electrons flowing in the secondary circuit has got nothing to do with the electrons running in the primary circuit.
They cannot reach each other since the circuits are isolated from each other.
So the thing is, the electrons running in the secondary circuit are not comming from the wall!!

They can't because they cannot reach the wall socked since they are not connected to it.

That gives me a new view on things and i need to think about it some more...
Pherhaps the electrons in the secondary circuit are the ones sitting in the wires already, i mean they have to come from somewhere don't they?
Then it would be a matter of only pumping them around.

...

Marco.


Exactly, and that is why THIS WORKS: http://rexresearch.com/markov/markov.htm

A transformer where there are TWO primaries that DIRECTLY oppose each other and CANCEL/NULL the magnetic flux, YET, on the ONE secondary, there is OUTPUT POWER...

Windings ratios mean NOTHING for Markov's transformer...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 10, 2007, 07:36:16 AM
Hello all,

what a discussion!!!!

@Rich,

I have all the time a little magnet hanging over my TPU. When I pulse my TPU with a frequency at 5 - 10Hz this magnet MUST rotate or you have no rotating field. Of course, if you pulse with 20Hz or even in kHz range you cant see a rotation because the magnet is too slow.

I didnt lift my TPU to see the inertia because there are a lot of wires, MOSFETs....

@Grumpy,

to synchronize 2 watches......no comment but we both know what will happen. Thats for sure.

@to all,

if you want a really big magnetic field then build a TPU with Rodin coil collectors. I posted this a veeery long time ago at gnosis.com.
With my knowledge now, about the collectors and coils and the Mobius....but Im working on the 15" TPU. Much more place for my fingers, less burned fingers.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 10, 2007, 07:42:53 AM
Well, i hope to see we will all be flying around in suspicious devices soon... :)

This brings me to the point where i am thinking about a normal galvanic insulated tranformer.
As we put an AC on the primary winding of the transformer, it induces a current in the secondary winding, but the major thing is, the electrons flowing in the secondary circuit has got nothing to do with the electrons running in the primary circuit.
They cannot reach each other since the circuits are isolated from each other.
So the thing is, the electrons running in the secondary circuit are not comming from the wall!!

They can't because they cannot reach the wall socked since they are not connected to it.

That gives me a new view on things and i need to think about it some more...
Pherhaps the electrons in the secondary circuit are the ones sitting in the wires already, i mean they have to come from somewhere don't they?
Then it would be a matter of only pumping them around.

...

Marco.


Exactly, and that is why THIS WORKS: http://rexresearch.com/markov/markov.htm

A transformer where there are TWO primaries that DIRECTLY oppose each other and CANCEL/NULL the magnetic flux, YET, on the ONE secondary, there is OUTPUT POWER...

Windings ratios mean NOTHING for Markov's transformer...

Thank you Tao, quite intresting.

This actually deals with cancelling the flux Litterally  :)
if this does work maybe we can tweak it so it put's out alot of free energy  :D

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 07:45:35 AM
Well, i hope to see we will all be flying around in suspicious devices soon... :)

This brings me to the point where i am thinking about a normal galvanic insulated tranformer.
As we put an AC on the primary winding of the transformer, it induces a current in the secondary winding, but the major thing is, the electrons flowing in the secondary circuit has got nothing to do with the electrons running in the primary circuit.
They cannot reach each other since the circuits are isolated from each other.
So the thing is, the electrons running in the secondary circuit are not comming from the wall!!

They can't because they cannot reach the wall socked since they are not connected to it.

That gives me a new view on things and i need to think about it some more...
Pherhaps the electrons in the secondary circuit are the ones sitting in the wires already, i mean they have to come from somewhere don't they?
Then it would be a matter of only pumping them around.

...

Marco.


Exactly, and that is why THIS WORKS: http://rexresearch.com/markov/markov.htm

A transformer where there are TWO primaries that DIRECTLY oppose each other and CANCEL/NULL the magnetic flux, YET, on the ONE secondary, there is OUTPUT POWER...

Windings ratios mean NOTHING for Markov's transformer...

Thank you Tao, quite intresting.

This actually deals with cancelling the flux Litterally  :)
if this does work maybe we can tweak it so it put's out alot of free energy  :D

Marco.


Oh, indeed.......... my friend :)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 10, 2007, 07:53:22 AM
Hello all,

[Marco],

yeeeessss, you nailed it.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 10, 2007, 07:53:56 AM
Exactly, and that is why THIS WORKS: http://rexresearch.com/markov/markov.htm
A transformer where there are TWO primaries that DIRECTLY oppose each other and CANCEL/NULL the magnetic flux, YET, on the ONE secondary, there is OUTPUT POWER...

Windings ratios mean NOTHING for Markov's transformer...

This is new? Really, I am surprized.
In winding transformers it is common to wind from one end to the other and return the opposite direction and continue. This allows lower grade cores because the cancelling flux allows the core to remain closer to the ideal state of 'idle' - like an unloaded transformer. In old fashioned switchboard class metering separate phases were wound on the same core to improve precision. All three phases came out on the secondaries. And yes, going by the above experience - I already believed you can have separate magnetic circuits traveling through the same 'conductor' just like electric current flow.
There must be a difference but I don't see it in the text.

@Otto and Grumpy

On the two watch thingy... may I suggest checking those dials while the thing is running. The one in the middle tends to 'race back in sync' when the power is removed  ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 10, 2007, 08:09:57 AM
Exactly, and that is why THIS WORKS: http://rexresearch.com/markov/markov.htm
A transformer where there are TWO primaries that DIRECTLY oppose each other and CANCEL/NULL the magnetic flux, YET, on the ONE secondary, there is OUTPUT POWER...

Windings ratios mean NOTHING for Markov's transformer...

This is new? Really, I am surprized.
In winding transformers it is common to wind from one end to the other and return the opposite direction and continue. This allows lower grade cores because the cancelling flux allows the core to remain closer to the ideal state of 'idle' - like an unloaded transformer. In old fashioned switchboard class metering separate phases were wound on the same core to improve precision. All three phases came out on the secondaries. And yes, going by the above experience - I already believed you can have separate magnetic circuits traveling through the same 'conductor' just like electric current flow.
There must be a difference but I don't see it in the text.

@Otto and Grumpy

On the two watch thingy... may I suggest checking those dials while the thing is running. The one in the middle tends to 'race back in sync' when the power is removed  ;)



Have a read of the patent. That webpage just states some characteristics of Markov's setup.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 10, 2007, 08:27:28 AM
Yes sir. I did.
I understood before reading the patent that the phase relationship of the two allowed each to cancel out the BEMF and the lagging current sine of the other. This reduced hysterisis and heat losses. The metering I mentioned used solid iron on the 4 1/2 inch models for the voltage sides of the Watt meters. I don't recall looking at the insides of the larger meters.

It is probably one of those things that have been going on for some time but being refined and announced, like a magnetic vortex. A paper was released just last week about how to do it with low power, in ambient air, with a series of well timed pulses. It was a university in Mexico. Someone else posted the link.
The point is, there is plenty of information on the web about others doing it in a similar way going back several years - and they post their findings as if it was something new. So I just read it and add the info. Usually it just clarifies.

Oops - the attachment isn't the one mentioned but it is another group that did the same thing thinking it was new.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 10, 2007, 08:29:59 AM
Well, EM, and BEP, glad I could inspire and get some juices flowing. I guess I had assumed that everyone had read that. My BAD. I wen't the UFO path a long time ago. You'd be surprised how many ufo, or device descriptions have rotating fields and coils in them. Stan Deyo describes a device for example, that is a bunch of iron core coils all arranged in concentric circles around a wooden form, interesting to note, is the number of coils in the rings seems to conform to searls law of sqaures.. Another one he talks about is an aluminum toroidal wave guide with coils wrapped around it. Another one I read about had four tesla like secondaries(the tube part) at four corners on the inside of the disc. But this was the most verifiable stuff I had ever found. Documented by the US govt. I'm hoping one day the CIA, and NSA sections will come on line. There's a lot of good stuff on that site. It can be quite a distraction, though, you are forewarned.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 10, 2007, 08:40:19 AM
@gn0stik

'My Bad'? Not at all. This is the most inspiring group I have ran into in a very long time. I can't wait to hear the thoughts. Every time I log in I see something astounding. I am hoping to add some meat to the table shortly. I am keeping my theories to myself now as that cludges the flow when they aren't organized.

Like some others, I prefer to theorize, test what I can and then put it all together.

On the NSA type stuff... There is supposed to be a 30 year limit on classified information. It is not always true. It depends on what the information is. Those folks are very good at keeping doors closed  ;D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Dingus Mungus on July 10, 2007, 09:34:55 AM
On the NSA type stuff... There is supposed to be a 30 year limit on classified information. It is not always true. It depends on what the information is. Those folks are very good at keeping doors closed  ;D

http://www.nsa.gov/foia/index.cfm
http://www.foia.cia.gov/

I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but you can request details there.
 :D
~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: EMdevices on July 10, 2007, 02:52:02 PM
Thanks Dingus Mungus,  I was going to say the same thing,  the NSA and CIA FOIA documents have been available for some time.  I was browsing them back in 2000.

BEP,  I see you're already thinking ahead on how to control the beast.   "Stabilizing unstable periodic orbits in the Lorenz equations using time-delayed feedback control"  I hope you understand all that's in there.  I took a class in Feedback and control and all I can remember is something about state space, or reduced matrix, etc..   LOL  :)

EM
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 10, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
guys, I didn't mean to derail the thread, only to give marco something to read RE his comment on flying tesla transformers. This is really a ECD thread, my X-File was not intended to take us down a different path.

Please let's respect this space, we can talk UFOs and stuff in the main thread "master of magnetics" or what not.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 10, 2007, 08:35:02 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting if members of this forum - and others- were the actual reason for the flying saucer stories?
Hmmm.... Maybe that part of history didn't exist until we started mucking around now.
Most of the descriptions sound like TPUs being built by hobbyists in their garage. A circular saw blade?
On second thought maybe I better try one.

EVERYBODY DUCK!

See the movie 'Primer'. That is all I can say without giving it away.

IS' avatar was a saw blade! Remember?

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 10, 2007, 10:41:29 PM
Hello all,

my lab is re-structuring but I've had enought time to complete my next ECD evolution that I named ECD V1.1. This advanced ECD has been designed, after discussing with Otto, to enhance mainly the particles release process always seeking to get more power in a safe way.

The ECD is now structured on 2 annular finned disks of 2 metals: Al and Cu, . The choose was made after carefully analyzing previous results. As shown in pic the disks are 'finned' ....VERY IMPORTANT.

Between the two disks I put the 3 Power Mosfet in order to allow them to heat the disks themselves!  (...and the CC as well).

I made small boards, as shown on the pic., where to put all the driver circuitry. So now finally I get rid of all the hash! The distance of Mosfet's Gate from the driver is now less than 1 cm. All the signal cable are now heavily shielded and the ECD itself is 2 metres far from all the other instrumentation....no more tampering problems and safer for me as well (but the television set just one level up is still tampered with).


About the waveform pic I must say that is referred to the use of only one CC and 3 freqs: 30, 90, 180KHz and +9VDC from the P.S. The upper trace is on ZERO wire and of course the lower trace is for PHASE wire of the load (60W/230V lamp) which is connected to an auxiliary secondary winded over the other coils.

Please note that only 4 peaks are converted in sine pieces. On upper trace it is possible to see 4 or better 3 Seeds....THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT because is the first time both me & Otto are seeing this....probably is due to the presence of 3 Fins on the disk! Please note that the sinus freq as always is 50 KHz.

Next step is to build the other two CCs and this time  SEARCH FOR POWER.

Best luck to all

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 10, 2007, 11:22:44 PM
Roberto, it's looking more and more like the open TPU every day.

Looks very nice. Quite a bit of work involved there. How did you cut your copper and aluminum plates by the way?

Also, can you turn it off and hold it up and take a picture? I'd like to see it from the AL plate side.

Interesting development on the multiple seeds there. It seems like it may be necessary to increase the number of pulses to try and match the number of seeds somehow in order for them to have something to convert. Or perhaps get them to coincide better, it looks like it maybe has a tendency to alternate between spikes and seeds now. Also, that wave form on the lower half of your scope is intersting, how the spikes together create a sine all the way across the screen.

Thanks.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: hartiberlin on July 11, 2007, 05:35:31 AM
Hi Roberto,
well done and nice new design.

Could you please let us know, how much current this thing is
currently using at 9 Volts from the power supply ?

Do you think it will be overunity only,when you put another
2 control coils on it ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 11, 2007, 08:18:32 AM
Hi Stefan,

here are the data you requested:

1 - the ECD was connected to my P.S. (decuopled with ferrite ring on wires and 10micofarad poliester capacitor in derivation). The current delivered to ECD during upmentioned tests =  3.2 A @ +9VDC, the light on bulb: ...well not full bright  (not overunity for sure).

2 - With 1 CC only it is of course not possible to obtain max efficiency. Certainly with all the 3 CCs the scenario will be much different. Please consider that the 50% conversion you are seeing has been obtained automatically without any particular freqs adj...just presetted the 3 oscillators and fired them!

3 - Next step will be to get the freq synched along with the 3 CCs on place. For oscillators I'll be using the diagram already posted or something easier as now I've bougth the DDS20 kit (65?) suggested by Rob and found it very easy & useful...

@Rich
1 - Yes you are right as I've had the same intuition! If I just move one of the plates 5-10 cm over (just supporting the smaller Mobius?) ...and spread the coils all over the 3 metal slots provided...it will be just like the 'Open TPU'. But I think that there are still differences...perhaps this design in a certain way is more advanced! (as I'm sure SM newer discovered the Seed) and so lost many clues to refine his ideas.

2 - Please find attached the requested pic. The annular disks have been cutted with Laser according to the template also attached here.

3 - Till a certain limit it's easy to increase the peaks number ...just increase F3 but no more than the allowed intrinsic limit that in my case is about 250 KHz.

4 - Your observation about the peaks that anyway do follow the sine shape is correct. I do also noticed it and it is positive. Now the bigger effort is to search how to get more voltage for the sine itself: now the amplitude is only about 40 V peak to peak (at 9V PS).  Here there's free ground for all to help with ideas!!!  I've noted that whatever design I have made the sine obtained is always at 50 KHz : IT IS CONSTANT.....but for the moment I've always found also that sine amplitude is 40V max as well....

best regards and good luck to all

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: BEP on July 11, 2007, 09:41:33 AM
@ronotte

Yes. It is a thing of beauty. Your scope shots also excite me...

1. I see the 'three sisters' effect at each CC set. i.e. three pulses in each group  2 lagging 90 from the previous pulse. I'm used to seeing only three groups. The first and last pulse in each group tend to work together to kick the middle one very high.
2. I think what you are calling 'seed' I am familiar with as inductive ringback from the aluminum core. All signals on the aluminum core would be seen as mirror images of the non-aluminum core but weaker, leading and clearly sinus but damped.

When the two are tuned  and working together it should be very exciting. Can't wait to hear of your results.


@EMdevices

On the Lorentz violations... Yes. Unfortunately I believe I do understand how it works. I don't consider that a blessing. I do feel this function is the key to arriving at the point where we light more than a bulb and self-run.
The two most important factors are there must be a vertical (axis in plane Y) solenoid like field that is either not rotating, going the opposite direction (rotation around Y on the plane of Z) or at a different rate than the other - and - the field above it has the axis 90 out from the first or horizontal (axis along X) while rotating centered at the Y axis (rotating on planes X and Z with Y as the equator).

Many things happen then but mainly the normally chaotic particle formations begin to have the chaos cancelled out allowing the particles to flow across the field lines of the vertical field in more useful trajectories. This, of course, creates electricity.

This is the way many have done it and many have claimed to have done it. Ronotte's screen shots do look familiar.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Gustav22 on July 12, 2007, 07:55:51 AM
Hello Roberto,

Are you placing the 3 CCs in an equal distance of 120? along the big collector circle (i.e. 120? on the 6" circle)?

If this does not lead to the expected success, I suggest, that you place the 3 CCs in a distance of 120? along the TOTAL COLLECTOR LENGTH.

(circumference of big + small circle divided by 3)

In other words, I suggest:
Mark the 3 thirds of the TOTAL COLLECTOR LENGTH BEFORE you fold the M?bius loop. And then place the 3  CCs on those points.

So 2 CCs would be on the big circle and 1 CC on the small circle.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 12, 2007, 08:50:14 AM
Hi Gustav22,

.....so many thinghs to do! (yes, I always used to set the CCs only in the bigger loop). You are certainly right: that 's a test that someone has to do!

In my case due to the annular disk presence it's not so easy but for sure all our efforts are now pointing in obtaining power so considering that the only (seems) thing to deal with is the CC...well I'm actually working on it.  In my opinion your wire lenght calculus is also correct so at least for me I'll try it.

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Rosphere on July 12, 2007, 07:11:25 PM
In other words, I suggest:
Mark the 3 thirds of the TOTAL COLLECTOR LENGTH BEFORE you fold the M?bius loop. And then place the 3  CCs on those points.

So 2 CCs would be on the big circle and 1 CC on the small circle.

I will try this configuration when I complete my coils.

I have some, "high power stereo speaker cable," made by Sparkomatic:  SWK116 is, "super heave gauge, dual lead braided copper wire."  Nowhere on the package is the gauge size mentioned.  (116 must refer to the one sixteen foot length per package; it is much bigger than 16 AWG.)  Using my fancy wire strippers, I find that all of the copper strands, on one side, fit snugly in the 12 AWG slot and I can pull the wires out without cutting any strands.  The fit in the 10 AWG slot seems too sloppy.  So, to make a long story short, I think it is 12 AWG.

If I connect the 6" outer-loop and 4" inner-loop with about 2.3" lengths of wire per side then I will have almost exactly three feet total length for each of the dual leads.  Placing my CC's as above would mean one foot spacings along the total three foot length; two on the outside loop and one on the inside.

Six feet total length of 12 AWG comes out to about 6,053 mm^3 copper volume.  Matching copper volume, (mass,) of the total Mobius coil with a 22 AWG primary coil means cutting about 61 feet of wire for the primary.  Matching copper volume of the Mobius coil and a primary coil with a 24 AWG secondary coil means cutting about 97 feet of wire for the secondary.  (Why 22 and 24 AWG?  I have enough of both right now to make the three CC sets.  I would like to use 20 AWG for the primary.  But I do not have enough right now.)

I am making "elongated" spools from round spools right now to accommodate my special 3/4" wide x 1/8" thick speaker cable.  I basically cut three 1.25" white 'Radio Shack' spools in half and I am gluing in four 3/4", (plus a hair,) spacers per spool.  The copper windings will add rigidity and prevent the spools from separating; the spacers just prevent the spools from collapsing inward during assembly and handling.  I epoxied two small squares of shag carpet to a long screw which I hope to use with a variable speed drill to help wind my elongated CC's.  We shall see how this works.

I made a nifty little square wave generator from a 74HC14 chip I had laying around.  My circuit sends three synchronized square waves to the three MOSFET drivers, (thanks again, Jason.)  The second wave starts when the first one ends, the third one starts when the second one ends, the first one starts again when the third one ends.  I use only one 3M trim-pot to change the frequency of all three signals simultaneously.

What I would like to do is set the pulse on-time equal to one-quarter of the primary coil resonant frequency, using a diode at the ground side of the coil.  Then flip a second diode around at that same node and connect it to the ground point of the next coil; using six diodes all around the total path.  In this way I hope to use the relaxing coil to help the circuit drive the next coil in line.  I wonder what will happen.

Then I would like to adjust my pulse on-time from one quarter of the coils wavelength slowly down to only one sixth of the wavelength.  I wonder what will happen.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Rosphere on July 12, 2007, 11:08:58 PM
What I would like to do is set the pulse on-time equal to one-quarter of the primary coil resonant frequency, using a diode at the ground side of the coil.  Then flip a second diode around at that same node and connect it to the ground point of the next coil; using six diodes all around the total path.  In this way I hope to use the relaxing coil to help the circuit drive the next coil in line.

This part reminds me of the cannonball analogy that SM was using.  In this case the electrons will come from ground through a diode and into the "on" CC until saturation when the circuit switches it off and switches on the next CC.  The electrons in the first coil, now switched off, go out through another diode connected to the ground point of the next coil, now switched on.  The original electrons never make it to the positive terminal, they keep getting shot into the next coil, like the cannon balls.

I think a frequency 2X the primary CC resonant frequency might do the trick.  With three, naturally synchronized, 33.3% duty cycle pulses, the second time around the ring will interrupt the first coil from going negative because it will be at the halfway point of it's full resonant cycle.

Blah, blah, blah... I should get back to the lab.  :-\
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: kosmoss on July 13, 2007, 06:18:11 AM
Hi, Everybody.

   I am new to this forum and I admire all of you and the hard work you put in the subject. I've been doing
research of OU devices for some time now and i when I came across this topic I was quite excited.
I would like to replicate TPU myself, but before investing time and money in a project, I do my homework.

   I have read all the essential messages in this topic and I must admit, my enthusiasm has faded. Why?

   After the first messages, I saw the video of Jason lighting the light bulb obviously. The power supply
shows 40V input or something after the bulb is fully lit. If the coil returned power to the power supply,
the voltage on the display should go down not up, it is just logical to me. My conclusion is, that the light
bulb was just powered from the power supply via transformer. You all saw what happened after connecting the coil to the battery.

   I was trying to find some info on Steven Mark. Some credentials, website, anything. I thought that the
man called "The Master of Magnetics" or his UEC Corporation should have a website. Nothing I could find. But found this, and you better take your time to read this just in case:  http://www.padrak.com/ine/SMARK.html

   Obviously, I watched the videos of SM devices on YouTube. This 38 min video is nicely done, ties, nice
house, furniture etc. But, it proves nothing. Inside the house, many trics can be done like induction,
hidden power cables, batteries, etc. I know what you will say: he took it outside! Right, but look carefully
at the camerawork at that moment; still inside the house camera loses the contact with the person who
carries the coil for a brief moment, just enough to switch it to battery pack. He goes outside, demonstrates
that the light bulb is lit. The same trick on the way back, you loose visual contact with the coil yet
again. It can be switched to anything. This video proves nothing.

   In another video SM demonstrates his device to some people. The date is 1997. If the coil is working,
what took him 10 years, just to make another video. It is just common sense, that somthing is not right
here.

   Did any of you see the device working with your own eyes, not on video? If even so, did you have a chance to test it properly, like running TV for 24 hours? Talk is cheap, seeing is beliving.


   Please don't understand me wrong, I am not writing this to undermine your efforts, I am just looking for
some answers.


   Best Regards,

      Kosmoss
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: chrisC on July 13, 2007, 06:48:38 AM
@kosmoss

Welcome to the SM TPU Research forum. Obviously you have not read far and wide nor deep enough. The stuff you posted is more than misleading.

Start with these condensed readings first.

1. http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.2560.html

from Darren (ZPE)

2. http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2383.0.html

Stefan's - the webmaster of OU

3. Then when you understand enough, look at Otto's, Renotte's and follow Tao!

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 13, 2007, 06:52:39 AM
Oh brother!

Another Kokomojo.  He forever haunts the forum!  LOL

Mr. I did my homework, you mean well, I'm sure but...Back to your studies.  We have covered all of this many, many, many, times.  Please do a search of Kokomojo's old thread...LOL  You will save us all the time of writing the same things...again.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 13, 2007, 07:17:40 AM
Hello all,

@Kosmoss

1. forget to find patents about the TPU
2. forget the padrak.com shit
3. forget that this videos are a fake

You want or dont want to work.

If yes, you are wellcome but I must warn you: its a veeery hard "job".

If you are a "PC hero" then stand back and let us work.

THE TPU IS REAL!!!!!

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HopeForHumanity on July 13, 2007, 08:48:48 AM
I notice these people every where on the internet. They trust anything negative they read, and automaticaly think there a know it all. Standard ignorant skeptic....

Time TPU was made and size of generator = no batteries to create output...

Works outside = no hidden indoor power source...

Amount of current = impossible power amount being transmitted...

Doesn't work upside down = pointless to fake such difficult task...

Judging by evidence, I would say the amount of money it would take to fake something of this would be more than the amount of money earned from investors...

Thats just MO... ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Gustav22 on July 13, 2007, 09:43:14 AM
Hi Rosphere

.....three feet total length for each of the dual leads.  Placing my CC's as above would mean one foot spacings along the total three foot length....

Yes. I think this makes sense.

I want to also stress two other points which I consider important for a successful ECD replication:

1.) According to my understanding one CC has to be placed directly at/near point PHASE
AND point PHASE has to be directly at/near the bend of the loop (i.e. the bend between the big and the small circle of the collector).

2.)
...I connect the 6" outer-loop and 4" inner-loop with about 2.3" lengths of wire per side ...

By doing this, you are changing the "total collector length" .

I doubt that this is beneficial.
It may be better to not fully "close" the two circles (to "save wire length" which you can then use for the "bend")
and NOT to augment the theoretical total collector length (31,4" = 79,79cm).

Hopefully Otto/Roberto will comment.

PS I hope you find honey  ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Hoppy on July 13, 2007, 09:55:52 AM
Hi Kosmoss

I fully understand your skepticism, as I too share some of your views. However, nobody can prove to another that this TPU either works or does not work in the way SM shows on his videos. It's up to each individual to prove the concept to themselves.

My view having read everything available and experimented myself is that the operation of this device as shown in the videos was faked, using a concealed power supply. However, that does not mean that that I don't hold out hope that the TPU can be made to work without the aid of assisted power. This is what many on this forum are working hard to achieve and I applaud their efforts. I'm sure several of them have their own inner doubts about the validity of SM's videos. Unless SM is prepared to reveal all and substantiate his claim to the point that others can successfully replicate his device(s), then we all have the right to state any opinion we wish on a public forum.

I and others have repeatedly called for Otto and Roberto to carry out some proper tests to establish the true power consumption of the device when powering the lamp load. They know the importance of doing this if nothing else but to confirm to themeselves that it is more than induction lighting their lamp. Their documentation is very good but unfortunately lacks this vital information.

Clive
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 13, 2007, 10:31:05 AM
Hello all,

@Gustav22

To your point 1 - yes thats it for the 1. control coil

To your point 2 - youre right - the outer ring and the inner ring MUST BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY!!!!!! or you changed the lenght of the collectors. If you missed this lenght than you missed the 6" TPU!!!! End result - NOTHING!!!

@Hoppy

youre talking about power consumption. Hmmm....in this moment is my power consumption really big.
You and all mst know that we are learning how to build proper coils, how to connect them, how to pulse them......

Its a big and dangerous job. But I saw for a few seconds what a 6" TPU can do when it gets out of control and since then I know whats about such a device.
This means its worth every second that I was working on it and this means that I will NEVER give up. If I need 1 month or 10 years, its worth to rediscover this technology.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Gustav22 on July 13, 2007, 11:04:10 AM
...If you missed this lenght than you missed the 6" TPU!!!! End result - NOTHING!!!

Thanks for this clarification.
 ;)

@all
Here is a list of "promising" wire lengths & ratios used by Otto/Roberto on the 6" ECD. I collected these figures from some of their previous postings:

itemlength [inch]length [cm]cm roundedRATIO4" collector12.5631,913226" collector18.8447,88 48 3total collector31.41 79,79805CC primary124.831732020CC secondary629.916001600100

Personal note:
I expect that different relationships between wire lengths lead to favoring of different harmonics in the resulting signal.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 13, 2007, 11:25:25 AM
Hello all,

@Gustav22

the ratios are nice but the last 1600 = 100 MUST and will be changed.

Lets talk about Tesla and Erfinder:

both sayd that the ratio of primaries and secondaries should be 1 : 1 IN WEIGHT!!!!!

A long time ago I wound a little transformer like our controls and used the same weight for primary and secondary coil. This you can reed on Erfinders posts.

End result: I connected 1 bulb on my coil and the voltage dropped a 1/3. Then I connected another bulb and the VOLTAGE AND CURRENT didnt drop!!!! All my analog instruments didnt show any reaction when I connected the 2. bulb.

In my latest tests I saw that really short wires for a control coil are needed.
You remember the open TPU??? I counted arround 15 - 20 turns of lamp wire for every segment. There are 4 segments pulsed with the Tesla patent 390721....

Today I measured the weight of wires. Here are the results, if somebody wants them:

Weight for 10 cm lenght of wire:

wire diameter 0,65mm, weight 0,29 gramms
wire diameter 0,50mm, weight 0,17 gramms
wire diameter 0,35mm, weight 0,07 gramms

I hope this helps a little.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 14, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
@HopeForHumanity ,
Doesn't it make you think though?

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: HopeForHumanity on July 14, 2007, 11:26:21 AM
@giantkiller,

It gives me two thoughts. It does question sm's intentions, but many have seen too many strange things happening when trying to replicate the device, and if he was already getting away with it then he would not waste time to reply to emails and give any information to mannix. The email doesn't make sense in a way that it claims he does all this stuff and gets away with it, but it creates the question why does he even give clues if he is doing fine "scamming". Thats why I don't really care about what the email says. The other thought that comes to mind, just how many people want to put down steven mark. The email doesn't really have any links to information examples emails or any conclusive evidence that steven mark is a scammer.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Ergo on July 14, 2007, 12:28:58 PM
I and others have repeatedly called for Otto and Roberto to carry out some proper tests to establish the true power consumption of the device when powering the lamp load. They know the importance of doing this if nothing else but to confirm to themeselves that it is more than induction lighting their lamp. Their documentation is very good but unfortunately lacks this vital information.

Clive

Which of course is one of the most typical signs of energy scammers.
Have a look at #9 of this link. http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html

Quote:
The inventor doesn't publish successful scientific research papers (i.e. he doesn't publish detailed replication instructions,)
or if he does, other researchers can't get them to work. Something vital wasn't included.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 14, 2007, 01:41:07 PM
Hey Ergo,

don't you dare to say thinghs like that you have posted in this thread:  

I DON'T WANT MONEY FROM ANYBODY I NEVER ASKED

what I did has been an original effort to help everybody interested and is all that I actually know!

So in my opinion people like you should be banned to write in this Forum.

Roberto
Title: Commercial Product versus Basic Research
Post by: Earl on July 14, 2007, 02:51:10 PM
@clive, @ergo

did it ever occur to you that your beloved link
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html

only concerns inventors/researchers asking for money?

Do you understand this?  YES or NO?

Neither Roberto nor Otto have ever asked for money.

Neither Roberto nor Otto is doing this so that clive and ergo can show their agressive impatience of basic research.

Do you understand that you have no rights of any shape or form to expect something from them?  YES or NO?
They are not asking anything from you, what right to you have to ask anything from them?

Do you fully understand the following quotes:

"Basic research is when I'm doing what I don't know what I'm doing!"  Wernher von Braun

"If I knew what I was doing, I would not call it research."  Albert Einstein

Roberto and Otto are doing basic research in an area where there are no maps or charts.
They are not presenting a comercial product, nor are they asking anyone for money.
Nor are either making any claims of excess energy.  The topic title was a bit over optimistic, that is all.

If it really is only traditional induction that is lighting their lamps, they will some day realize this and publicize it.  Criticism is only welcome if it is positive and constructive and takes into account that hobby researchers have jobs and family and resource limits to consider.

It seems to me that this is a good opportunity for both Clive and Ergo to keep their egoistic mouths shut.  And that is putting it in a very diplomatic manner.

If either of you persist in directly or indirectly accussing Roberto or Otto of scamming someone out of money, I will ask Harti to put you on read-only.

Earl
I and others have repeatedly called for Otto and Roberto to carry out some proper tests to establish the true power consumption of the device when powering the lamp load. They know the importance of doing this if nothing else but to confirm to themeselves that it is more than induction lighting their lamp. Their documentation is very good but unfortunately lacks this vital information.
Clive
Which of course is one of the most typical signs of energy scammers.
Have a look at #9 of this link. http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
Quote:
The inventor doesn't publish successful scientific research papers (i.e. he doesn't publish detailed replication instructions,)
or if he does, other researchers can't get them to work. Something vital wasn't included.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 14, 2007, 03:20:15 PM
@Roberto & Otto,
I second the motion and stand behind you in your efforts!
That is not because I am heavily vested in all this either but because of what you stated about not asking for money.
Here is the challenge to all again: If you can power your house in a stand alone condition you will not be able to manage the amount of money flowing in. Plan your dissertation correctly and you can time the market.

Whether we get to the end game with this or not, I have stood on the shoulders of great men while lifting others up, like you, Roberto and others, have done also. It is not a measure of how much one contributes but that they do with such immense vigor and commraderie.

Those of us who are not asking for money have worked on and in the most important and valuable concepts of our time. We have made up an international team of the most 'Can do' people on the planet. We have seen ans done things others can't even imagine. It's not the destination but the journey that has the most reward. And its all documented here in these threads.

So pay no heed to the 'Newcomers' who try to tell the graduates what to do, what we have done, what we can't do or haven't done. They are gambling on Shifting sand.

Oh wait! I hear someone popping up and asking if I, giantkiller, have OU.

In the words of Ironhead: 'Just build it'.

Thanks Roberto for this latest step.

The latest contribution was bobbin wound control coils. I decided, on my own, to wire single layer jackets. Tao's latest post exclaims to do just that. Ask yourself 'how was giantkiller ahead of that'?  LOTR 1:2.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg21437.html#msg21437
If you build anything that gets some results then you can recognize the non-builders in the first couple of words they post. If ya haven't seen it, ya don't know. Period.

In the words of giantkiller and I speak for the others: get onboard or man overboard. The graduate builders have something far greater to their acclaim: We are doing it and you are not.

I go back to testing and revising. So few can even do that.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: ronotte on July 14, 2007, 03:32:47 PM
@Earl, Gk

Ditto

Roberto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 14, 2007, 04:09:43 PM
@Earl, Gk

Ditto

Roberto
Sometimes, ya just have to get the flyswatter out.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 14, 2007, 05:02:42 PM
Hello all,

@Earl, GK, Roberto

let the PC heroes wright what they want.

WE KNOW WHATS OUR JOB.

This PC heroes are soooo......

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 14, 2007, 05:35:35 PM
Hello all,

again me with a little question:

As you know my English is.....

What do you understand under the therm of  "Lamp wire"????

Is this a 2 stranded kable or can this be something else???

The more answers the better.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: wattsup on July 14, 2007, 05:55:11 PM
Here is what I use as lamp wire 16 awg.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 14, 2007, 06:06:42 PM
Hello all,

@Earl, GK, Roberto

let the PC heroes wright what they want.

WE KNOW WHATS OUR JOB.

This PC heroes are soooo......

Otto


Who are you refering to?

LOL...
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 14, 2007, 06:48:57 PM
This is the radio shack 16awg speaker wire. It works too. And I might add quite well. ;)

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 14, 2007, 06:54:18 PM
Hello tao,

Im refering to people that are only wrighting and wrighting but wrighting crap.

In this forum there are 3 groups of people:

1. the theorists

you tao gave us as the first the points how a TPU works, and a lot of good theorists that helps us. This was very helpful because in the beginning we didnt know what and how....

2. the workers

GK, Roberto....and a lot of people building and trying to use your ideas and of course thinking a lot of the theories too

3.PC heroes

this people are f...g the forum and all us. They are "working" on the theories but never builded even 1 coil. But the point is that they think to have the right to critisise everyone here. They know "everything", pisses on all the work done .....

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 14, 2007, 07:04:04 PM
Hello all,

guys thanks. I was asking because Im using a classical lamp wire. My little litzes are thicker, much thicker. Hmmm...

My Mobius is good. When I connect more and more "parts" of my Mobius I see that my lamp is brighter and brighter....but only good, is not good enough. My Mobius must be muuuuch better.

You all know how my coils looks like.

Today, after months and months using my "special" coils, I spreaded my coils over the collector. Result???Hmmm....the same!!!! I didnt measure my frequency. It would be logic that my frequency is now much higher to have the same effect. Tomorrow I will see about the frequency.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: tao on July 14, 2007, 07:14:37 PM
Hello tao,

Im refering to people that are only wrighting and wrighting but wrighting crap.

In this forum there are 3 groups of people:

1. the theorists

you tao gave us as the first the points how a TPU works, and a lot of good theorists that helps us. This was very helpful because in the beginning we didnt know what and how....

2. the workers

GK, Roberto....and a lot of people building and trying to use your ideas and of course thinking a lot of the theories too

3.PC heroes

this people are f...g the forum and all us. They are "working" on the theories but never builded even 1 coil. But the point is that they think to have the right to critisise everyone here. They know "everything", pisses on all the work done .....

Otto


I see, and I agree...

I have seen some of these PC heroes myself lol. They come in here with a real EGO too, when the sole function of ALL of OUR combined work is to merely get a TPU working and then given away to all. There should be no EGO involved...

Title: Litze Draht / Litz wire
Post by: Earl on July 14, 2007, 07:58:50 PM
Hello all,
What do you understand under the therm of  "Lamp wire"????
Is this a 2 stranded kable or can this be something else???
The more answers the better.
Otto

Otto,
in Europe lamp cable is the 220 Volt two conductor cable, usually with 0.75mm*mm cross section.  Sometimes you can also by it with 2x 1.5 mm*mm cross section.  The only difference between lamp cable and loudspeaker wire is maybe the voltage is guaranteed for lamp wire, but not for loudspeaker cable.

Whether lamp cable or loudspeaker cable, there are many fine strands of NON insulated copper wire.  While this is very flexible, it is not really good for high-frequency applications.

By high frequency, I mean greater than 5-10 kHz sine wave or ALL square waves.
For high-frequencies you must use Litz wire.  Litz wire is different to lamp wire or loudspeaker wire because each parallel conductor has insulation (Lackdraht) and only at the ends are they soldered together.  Litz wire also is twisted together. 

Be careful. Attention.  Achtung.  Germans have a tendency to not be exact when using the word Litze.  The wire you need is HF-Litze, such as Buerklin 89F180 - 184.  This is not the same as generic Litzen or Schaltlitze, these are the same as lamp cable.   

Otto, hope this helps.

Regards, Earl
Certified 5-Star PC Hero
Serving the Internet since 1831   :o                       
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 14, 2007, 07:59:35 PM
Hello tao,

Im refering to people that are only wrighting and wrighting but wrighting crap.

In this forum there are 3 groups of people:

1. the theorists

you tao gave us as the first the points how a TPU works, and a lot of good theorists that helps us. This was very helpful because in the beginning we didnt know what and how....

2. the workers

GK, Roberto....and a lot of people building and trying to use your ideas and of course thinking a lot of the theories too

3.PC heroes

this people are f...g the forum and all us. They are "working" on the theories but never builded even 1 coil. But the point is that they think to have the right to critisise everyone here. They know "everything", pisses on all the work done .....

Otto


I see, and I agree...

I have seen some of these PC heroes myself lol. They come in here with a real EGO too, when the sole function of ALL of OUR combined work is to merely get a TPU working and then given away to all. There should be no EGO involved...



Maybe it would be a good idea to expose who these "pc heros" are so they know and can stop doing what they are doing.

That would help the forum I guess.

It might be said that "they" know who they are...but I am sure that some don't.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 14, 2007, 08:12:02 PM
On another note:
@The advanced builder dudes,
Maybe we should all feel tremendously flattered that we make it look so easy to the un-initiated and that greater things are expected from us. :D

I have to depart for the beach now. I am expected to walk on water.

-giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 14, 2007, 08:44:48 PM
On another note:
@The advanced builder dudes,
Maybe we should all feel tremendously flattered that we make it look so easy to the un-initiated and that greater things are expected from us. :D

I have to depart for the beach now. I am expected to walk on water.

-giantkiller.

Take the antigravity coils out of your shoes and sit down. If we are successful there will be no room for skepticism, but there will still be these who come along and expect more from us. That is just the way of the world. People expect us to build for them, personally. People come here, and expect to be project managers, when they themselves have yet to even read all the material. Everyone thinks they have something important to add, and in their opinion, invariably it's more important than anything that has yet been offered. Somehow they think that their perspective, or their take on this or that, has not been thoroughly discussed, because if it had we'd agree with them. Or that their particular brand of skepticism or optimism is better than what has been presented in the past, and that we will drop everything and give up, or follow them to success.

There are a few who come and offer something of value, but they usually do it, and sit by quietly. They do it without bravado, they do it without ego. They do it, and are simply usually just reporting their personal experience. There is the rare helpful, productive person who is also very outspoken and energetic. But usually builders are quiet, introspective, studious, and prefer to spend more time in their lab than online. This can lend itself to critisism. Not completely unfounded, either. Communication is critical. But it's just part of their nature.

Don't get me wrong, everyone has ego, and it can always be a source of turbulence. But most builders and contributors know when to put it on hold, in spite of the temporary lapses everyone has.

These PC Heros, or Trolls, are only fed because of OUR egos folks. It is not their responsibility to shut up. It's our responsibility to ignore them. Do you really think that these people who are being disruptive purposefully will realize their moral obligation to leave us alone? Ridiculous, they will keep on. So it's our responsibility to deny them the fuel they need to go on. If our egos are injured by them, we just need to ignore them. It's also Stefan's responsibility to remove them so we can work. This is all easier said than done. That's why I started gn0sis. To have a place where threads were moderated. But it kinda died out because most people come here. Oh well, no big deal.

Nice work Roberto, Otto, et al.

Rich

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: bluedemon on July 14, 2007, 09:05:48 PM
I have a off topic, and possibly stupid question.  If you place a segment of thick copper wire or possibly a copper pipe in the center of one of your tpu's that have a rotating magnetic field, does it produce any usable current in the segment?
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 14, 2007, 09:29:40 PM
Short of naming anyone, perhaps someone could explain what a "pc hero" is.

I'm wondering if I fall into this category myself.

I gather that according to some folks, if one doesn't build your circuit or coil, or if one asks reasonable questions about it, or doesn't necessarily or whole-heartedly endorse your project, or points out the odd error, they are by default labeled "pc heros".

I have certainly done that, and I know many others have also, though not necessarily publicly.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 14, 2007, 09:51:10 PM
hey! then i wanna be a pc-hero too  ;D

sounds good.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2007, 12:00:55 AM
Well while everybody is in the pool I might as well too.
My other selves take great offense and delight superficially at the bipolar trauma I have chosen to bare.
If I format my harddrive will we all just vanish, will this project be finshed or can I accept any hostile takeovers?
I feed only on myself and don't need a Ritz.

--giantkiller. Somedays it just ain't worth chewing at the restraints.
Title: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: Earl on July 15, 2007, 02:23:25 AM
Darren,

a PC hero is a somewhat derogatory comment made by someone actively building and experimenting who does not have the time (or does not want to spend the time right now) to write documentation or make certain tests.  In the best case the PC hero is terribly frustrated, in the worst case agressive because the builder who is up to their elbows in electrons is not reacting to their demands.  It is not so much a case of not replicating the builder's coil or circuit, but the perception by the builder that the (negative) criticism is coming from someone who will never wind a coil or solder a circuit in their entire life.  There is a very diplomatic balancing line between contructive and destructive criticism.  In pointing out the odd error, words can carry many different tones.  A builder's priority is to solve problems and advance each day and does not necessarily have time to listen to signal or noise.

As a parallel, let's take a builder of rocket motors who is working on a new breakthrough design that has never been tried before.  He is having problems with the liquid oxygen pump and circulation around the nozzle to keep the nozzle from melting.  Some one writes an email and says "I've asked this before and you didn't reply:  does the motor develop more thrust than the weight of the rocket?"  The builder could care less if the rocket leaves the pad or not because in the instant he is busy trying to solve the basic nozzle cooling problem.  Only when the cooling problem is solved will he think about testing the thrust.  The builder reacts negatively because he percieves the email coming from someone who will never build a nozzle in their life.

Another problem is that a builder between work, family, and mechanical construction and electrical wiring is busy 5000 hours per day.  A non builder sitting at a keyboard can easily ignore the unending amount of time that building a TPU/ECD (or other research project) consumes.

I remember many times on projects where a "simple 15 minute task" ended up taking the entire night.

So to avoid being called a "PC hero" in the heat of the battle, only offer positive, constructive criticism in a tactful and diplomatic manner and have the patience of a Saint.

I suggest any further discussions about builder versus PC Hero should be taken to a new thread, or simply just let this topic die in order not to waste anymore time nor create more noise.

Regards, Earl
Short of naming anyone, perhaps someone could explain what a "pc hero" is.

I'm wondering if I fall into this category myself.

I gather that according to some folks, if one doesn't build your circuit or coil, or if one asks reasonable questions about it, or doesn't necessarily or whole-heartedly endorse your project, or points out the odd error, they are by default labeled "pc heros".

I have certainly done that, and I know many others have also, though not necessarily publicly.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 15, 2007, 02:52:20 AM
Earl,

That's certainly one perspective.

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 15, 2007, 03:12:10 AM
He's Right ZPE, that's exactly what otto was talking about.

Go back and read otto's post in context to the posts that came before, and see who he's talking about.

Asking for a list, or needing a description?

Serious? Are you really that self-concious? Yes, otto probably think's your one of these guys. He probably thinks I am too for that matter because I've asked some hard questions too. Thing is they need to be asked, and answered. Period. Peer review is an important part of science, and if someone doesn't like that? too fucking bad. It's important for a reason.

Inversely, wearing your heart on your sleeve is a pretty silly thing to do as well. If you take everything as a challenge to your worth, your not going to have a very happy life, and nobody will take you seriously. Especially if you pride yourself in asking the tough questions and making it known that you are skeptical, sometimes it can come off as arrogant. You can't have it both ways. Either grow some thicker skin or lighten up a tad.

Guys can we just drop this business? This has got to be the most retarded distraction to a thread I've ever seen. Please.

Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 15, 2007, 03:30:24 AM
Rich,

From time to time, guys like "Ergo" are going to chime in and cast their doubt. I wish all would relax a little and refrain from giving this type of thing so much attention, because it's going to happen again...get it? Let it go.

It was Otto that took exception to that post and began ranting about pc heros...ok?

So if I need "thicker skin" as you put it, then certainly Otto and a few other folks here do as well...including yourself.

As our old friend would say...
shutin' up shutin' up!

Cheers
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2007, 06:51:51 AM
2 loaded sidearms and nowhere to aim.

--'Hole in both feet'.  :D
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 15, 2007, 08:34:14 AM
Quote
From time to time, guys like "Ergo" are going to chime in and cast their doubt. I wish all would relax a little and refrain from giving this type of thing so much attention, because it's going to happen again...get it? Let it go.

But not when others chime in and point out the trolls eh? Seems like your saying exactly what I'm saying. Just selectively.

Nevertheless, I agree.

Rich
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 15, 2007, 09:43:06 AM
This thread is starting to look like a cheap soap.

and Rich, you would be the king of pc heroes, i have never seen you build a single coil or posting a image as my memory serves me right  ;D

did you get the generators and finish your ECD type TPU ?
i am intrested in your results.

The people who are waiting for the right tpu diagram are heading towards a verry hard time if/when it becomes available that would mean they start to build their first coil and then they will face all the things the others faced much earlier becuse they did various coils and develloped certain winding techniques.

i don't think one can wind the perfect coil when it is his first one, you really need to get the experience and you will get better as you build more coils.

Marco.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2007, 05:22:15 PM
OK then guys, Back on track.

This is a conversation between Ronotte, Gnosis and I. I cleaned up the spelling and left the pertinant items in.

[1:02:42 AM] Ronotte says: OK. Me & Otto lately are pushing hard as with standard design Bobbin or flat coil doesn't seem to allow more power extraction than a single lamp! no matter what you do. So especially Otto lately discovered that we do need to use much less copper....and then he PARALLELED MANY LAMPS WITHOUT NOTICING VOLTAGE DECREASING!
[1:03:22 AM] Giantkiller says: sounds like SM to me!
[1:04:14 AM] Giantkiller says: I could drive the ECD now with my 1st driver board. But I want to take more steps up front.
 [1:05:00 AM] Ronotte says: YES it is the same for me too. But as always it is necessary to confirm. At the moment I'm striving to go in parallel with Otto...unfortunately he's able to experiment more because he has more free time...so he is always a step or 2 in front of me!!
1:07:21 AM] Giantkiller says: my fet duty cycle is less than 10%
[1:07:53 AM] Giantkiller says: And they run cold with a 50 ohm load phase to zero lines.
[1:07:58 AM] Ronotte says: Things are now going faster and is more and more difficult to stay in phase!   As you have seen many new theories are emerging...but my advice is just to take a route and follow it without being distracted too much by the others!
[1:09:04 AM] Giantkiller says: Absolutely. But I always like to hear that advice again.
[1:10:07 AM] Giantkiller says: I got the fets running way below body temp. 4 fets at 10ma with coil and 50ohm attached. I did the calculation and the ECD doc shows 884 ohms. I should be very good to go. I'll switch to a 1k for the next test.
 [1:13:10 AM] Ronotte says: giantkiller would you be so nice to update the other friends here as it seems that I never catch them. Speaking about my new advance ...I've set up a second bobbin and done a complete set of tests. Well the results are not encouraging as the single bobbin seem much better than the two. This means that there is something wrong in the CC design, I do think I'll try the new low turn number way: do you remember? Gustav22 told us with a good calculus about copper that the resonance with copper atomic structure (25 MHz) may be reached with 1/4 of wave with a length of 1.9 meter of coil wire.
 [1:14:21 AM] Gnosis says: Roberto, it could also be that the number of coils matters.
[1:14:40 AM] Giantkiller says: yes I do. That told me the best freq that matches copper as an element.
[1:14:53 AM] Gnosis says: I would try adding another coil, before abandoning what you are doing. The single coils test is very encouraging.
[1:15:02 AM] Gnosis says: perhaps three are needed. for some reason.
[1:15:07 AM] Gnosis says: Asymmetry
[1:15:30 AM] Giantkiller says: Yes. 2 equals just rocking back and forth.
[1:15:37 AM] Gnosis says: right
[1:16:03 AM] Giantkiller says: that is the 390721 bucking coil test.
[1:16:30 AM] Ronotte says: Perhaps you are right! I've also had that thought...but anyway I'll try as well with 3 CCs...To summarize what I see with 2 CCs is that I' don't reach even near a full conversion and all tuning is more complicated. So I will not dismantle that test bench...but in the same time I'm building a new more advanced (') ECD with at least 3 Mobius. I DO WANT POWER.
[1:18:15 AM] Giantkiller says: I agree.
[1:18:20 AM] Gnosis says: will your three rings be the same diameter?
[1:18:33 AM] Gnosis says: Or will they get smaller as you go down, like the two rings?
[1:18:46 AM] Giantkiller says: or bigger?
[1:19:12 AM] Ronotte says: NO , this route has been discussed with Otto and we thought that it should run with 3 big ring and 1 small ring on top
 [1:19:26 AM] Gnosis says: interesting
[1:20:07 AM] Giantkiller says: so 2 more 6"s
[1:20:47 AM] Giantkiller says: I know the mobius configuration works from before.
[1:21:40 AM] Ronotte says: So there is plenty of ground to use and help from the Team is absolutely needed...I can think about other at least 40 - 50 configurations to test.....BUT I FORGOT TO SAY THAT OTTO USING LESS COPPER HAS BEEN ABLE TO LIGHT MANY LAMPS WITHOUT INCREASING POWER SUPPLY CURRENT!!!!!
[1:22:31 AM] Giantkiller says: I do believe it is the wing configuration
[1:23:06 AM] Gnosis says: how many turns are Ottos controls now roberto?
[1:23:38 AM] Gnosis says: 1.9 meters is not that much
[1:23:56 AM] Ronotte says: It seems that he's using a figure near the one I'm going to use  1.9 meter that translates into 15 turns of lamp wire
[1:24:18 AM] Gnosis says: your controls are now lamp wire?
[1:24:22 AM] Gnosis says: not mag wire?
[1:24:42 AM] Ronotte says: not at the moment, but I'll switch to it
[1:24:46 AM] Giantkiller says: that would be an open tpu
[1:24:58 AM] Gnosis says: I have litz
[1:25:03 AM] Gnosis says: from some transformers
[1:25:52 AM] Ronotte says: YES it is because I'll wind the lower ring around an annular Al disk and I'LL PUT THE moSFET ON AN UPPER RING OF cU METAL, Than flat coil =  OPEN TPU
 [1:27:00 AM] Ronotte says: ...but it takes time ...and this only AFTER we all have seen that other routes leads to nothing
[1:27:07 AM] Giantkiller says: the flat style gives 2 wing edges, inside and outside.
[1:27:36 AM] Ronotte says: yes and you have to lay down the collector near one border
[1:28:04 AM] Giantkiller says: and the concentrated RE in the center gives us alot to work with in the magnetic field creation.
[1:28:46 AM] Ronotte says: YES and don't forget to make winding AROUND an annular Al disk to provide for particles release!!!!
[1:29:15 AM] Gnosis says: Have you tried different methods of wiring the controls together?
[1:29:16 AM] Giantkiller says: but the mag field is almost like car engine exhaust.
[1:29:33 AM] Ronotte says: what do you mean?
[1:30:53 AM] Gnosis says: Well, the primaries have the input signal and power, one side and power to ground. basically all in parallel, but from different signal sources, same power source though.
[1:30:54 AM] Giantkiller says: the RE is what the true power out for conversion. The mag field is slower and less necessary. Could be helpful for a buffer or resistance of operation.
[1:31:11 AM] Gnosis says: err other side to ground.
[1:32:18 AM] Gnosis says: Secondaries also are all in parallel
[1:32:30 AM] Giantkiller says: yep
[1:32:35 AM] Gnosis says: SM talked about different ways to do it.
[1:32:46 AM] Gnosis says: depending on how you wanted the power output.
[1:32:47 AM] Giantkiller says: strange circuit.
[1:32:54 AM] Gnosis says: more current, or more voltage
[1:33:03 AM] Giantkiller says: IT starts with RE
[1:33:08 AM] Gnosis says: if secondaries were all in series, that might be interesting.
[1:33:17 AM] Ronotte says: In actual CC (many turns) I have lot of RE , peak conversion take place easily...eliminating those huge peaks and make appearing sine wave pieces. The CCs are all in series...but current consumption is still high
[1:33:21 AM] Gnosis says: then to zero and phase
1:33:45 AM] Giantkiller says: right to both of you.
[1:34:42 AM] Giantkiller says: The GK4 has a tremendous amount of RE out. But I made it sloppy and can't tune it.
[1:34:44 AM] Ronotte says: Well ...there still is an important clue!  ..use a rot mag field on Mobius!
[1:34:54 AM] Gnosis says: yes, yes.
[1:35:20 AM] Giantkiller says: absolutely. That is fact and will never go away in my mind.
[1:35:38 AM] Gnosis says: I was thinking about some other experiments I saw somewhere.
[1:35:53 AM] Ronotte says: This is the most important thought I had ...I've definitely have to setup a Tesla pat  with 4 CC to try it
[1:36:05 AM] Gnosis says: Where in several transformers, they placed the primaries in series, and the secondaries all in parallel.
[1:36:10 AM] Giantkiller says: the 390721?
[1:36:14 AM] Ronotte says: Yes
[1:36:35 AM] Giantkiller says: You will like what you see!
[1:36:43 AM] Ronotte says: I already have made such a ring I've only to fire it up
[1:37:08 AM] Giantkiller says: When the current fet board is done I bring them all back out.
[1:37:51 AM] Ronotte says: Probably the best would be to use 3 Mobius and a rot field...low turn-count coils
[1:38:18 AM] Giantkiller says: You just have to get the RE flying. I have 3 coils that do that now.
[1:38:48 AM] Ronotte says: I DO WANT BECAUSE IS JUST THE TIME THIS TEAM GETTING HIS REWARD!
[1:39:14 AM] Giantkiller says: yes sir.
[1:39:34 AM] Gnosis says: are you planning another trip any time soon to croatia?
[1:40:05 AM] Ronotte says: Please would you be so kind to update the other members as it seems I've difficult to find them due to much different timings.
[1:40:29 AM] Ronotte says: YES I'll go to Croatia during the second part of August
[1:40:31 AM] Giantkiller says: sure.
[1:41:14 AM] Gnosis says: awesome. I hope you bring back new documentation.
 [1:42:04 AM] Ronotte says: of course I'LL TRY TO SETUP CORRECTLY EVERYTHING AND TO ASSESS THE SITUATION
[1:42:13 AM] Ronotte says: cIAo

I can edit out more of what is deemed not neccesary.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 15, 2007, 07:04:54 PM
well, which part is deemed neccesary?

M.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: otto on July 15, 2007, 07:07:30 PM
Hello all,

@GK

thanks a lot for sharing your discussion. Veeery nice.

Otto
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
You are welcome, Sir.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: z_p_e on July 15, 2007, 08:57:43 PM
Roberto,

I'm designing a circuit for Marco, and while looking at yours, I noticed on your v1.0 ECD controller circuit, there seems to be an error with the IRF7307 connection.

If I am not mistaken, pins 5/6 should be swapped with pins 7/8.

Cheers,
Darren

PS. Not trying to be a "pc hero", just helping out a fellow designer ;)
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: gn0stik on July 15, 2007, 09:56:25 PM
This thread is starting to look like a cheap soap.

and Rich, you would be the king of pc heroes, i have never seen you build a single coil or posting a image as my memory serves me right  ;D

did you get the generators and finish your ECD type TPU ?
i am intrested in your results.

The people who are waiting for the right tpu diagram are heading towards a verry hard time if/when it becomes available that would mean they start to build their first coil and then they will face all the things the others faced much earlier becuse they did various coils and develloped certain winding techniques.

i don't think one can wind the perfect coil when it is his first one, you really need to get the experience and you will get better as you build more coils.

Marco.


Actually, your memory serves you wrong. I've built an ecd, and started testing. But had to pack up all my equipment because we're moving, and selling my house. I even posted a pic of it in this thread. I'll resume testing in the new house. I saw no results with the tests I performed. I'm not sure my circuit was right though. We'll see at the new house.

I try not report any findings that are just normal results one would expect to see. It has to be pretty extraordinary for me to post about an experiment.

The whole thing about PC heros was retarded, let's let it rest.

I'm interested to hear more about your new tpu, though.
Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post by: turbo on July 15, 2007, 10:36:59 PM
ah yes Rich, now i remember again...
you are right.

my memory is a bit noisy latley, if anybody asks me something at work i awnser with:
"three is important, you can do many things with three coils"

 ;D

my new coil already moves the needle of the compass quite nicely on a empty 1,5v aaa battery.
empty as in my mp3 player wont work on it.

i can't wait to build the proper drive and fire it up.
also i have some new ideas about it acting like a reciever and how to de tune it etc,etc.

many tests ahead :)

M.


Title: Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
Post b