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Author Topic: Successful TPU-ECD replication !  (Read 1139055 times)

weri812

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #465 on: June 20, 2007, 06:50:17 AM »
TO ALL

HERE ARE THE PICTURES IN PDF FORM

WER

chrisC

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #466 on: June 20, 2007, 07:45:43 AM »
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC

WaveWatcher

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #467 on: June 20, 2007, 08:15:02 AM »
Suggestion:

The 7 freq should be the resonant freq of the small coil. This one would be more broadbanded and also work at the freq of the larger coil.
The 4 freq should be the resonant freq of the larger coil. This one would be most critical with high Q requirement. I could understand if this one needed to be tuned.
The 1 freq would be a harmonic of our biggest common generator (Earth).
Using other than air core on a toroid should just allow you to work closer to the base frequency (larger signal?) while keeping the size managable.

On the later SM units he was probably able to provide more 'sqeezes' with a single outside winding since he then knew the frequency and therefore was able to calculate exact winding spacing and wire size. With proper design he could get the odd turns and even turns squeezing in an alternating fashion. 3rd harmonic pulsing 120, 4th pulsing 90 or even faster? This is starting to sound like a rail-gun.


Thaelin

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #468 on: June 20, 2007, 09:07:31 AM »
   Number 1 (35k) rolls in right at the place whistlers are the strongest.

   So this puts us at small coils at 245, big coil at 140 and the derived at 35k.  Hmmmmm

sugra

mrd10

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #469 on: June 20, 2007, 11:42:24 AM »
2 Tests tonight....
Can my triple step-up coil (Tesla Style) newman motor light a bulb on one coil?

Can the magnet bar be made to move with the addition of dc in one other coil. (as per doc posted earlier)?

Results , Yes and Yes, when 9V was applied to the upper coil the magnetic field disappeared in the device and the bar rotated freely by hand. There was no change in the output of the light.

Cam


Cam, nice work there mate, can't wait to get more juicy details.

Dom

bob.rennips

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #470 on: June 20, 2007, 01:30:05 PM »
I've was playing around to see how fast the amplitude grows when combining waves. Unexpectedly I came across something that I hadn't considered.

Although I've used sine waves for the calculations the same principle still applies because your coils are physically spaced at different degrees apart around a circle. Becauase you are dealing with pulses into the kilohertz and even mega hertz which create magnetic waves that mix, the exact position of your coils, to the nearest 0.5mm will be critical to the phase required between your pulses. My guess is that 1st, 2nd and 3rd harmonics will work when the coils are identical AND they are positioned precisely around a circle equal distances apart. If your coils are slightly different and not quite in the correct place, your sweet spot frequencies don't lie on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd harmonics, resulting in only partial conversions.

Anyhow, back to the waveforms. The red and blue are 90 degrees out of phase. When combined they create another wave (green wave) that is 45 degrees out of phase. However when the green wave and the original red wave combine they form yet another wave but this time the phase is 26.56... out of phase.

Now that is unexpected for me. I had thought that combined waves would continue to divide the phase in two. What this means is that phase plays an extremely important part in the TPU. The continuous mixing of waves results in a continually changing set of phases as well as increasing amplitudes.

Note that when waves of the same frequency mix the resultant wave still has the same frequency, but its phase and amplitude change.

In Otto's working design, by tieing the secondaries back to the primaries in all the coils this will ensure a continued mixing of new pulses with combined pulses. I think Otto's circuit is in affect a circuit that continuously creates waves of different phases. The TPU effects, including the generation of the seed, being caused when the right combination of phased waves is created.

I note in SMs TPU snapshots there appear to be 2 or 4 coils. I haven't seen a setup that appears to use 3. Given that all coils are in parallel, it would not be difficult to add a fourth coil, and still pulse the four coils with the 3 frequencies.


z_p_e

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #471 on: June 20, 2007, 02:40:01 PM »
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC


Chris,

Yes precision frequency adjustment would be necessary I would think. This is why I'm not sure using DIP switches for frequency selection (if I read that correctly) will be useful for capturing the desired frequency. It sounded like Roberto and Jason are going that route.

Please note that my last posted representation of the circuit, is merely that. It was not intended as a circuit to build. I was trying to illustrate how the primaries are being switched, and to make it easier to visualize what happens with different input scenarios.

One could build this circuit, and it would work, but it won't be the same as the original. I recommend everyone build a divider and drive it with a single (quality) oscillator with fine frequency adjustment. If there is a 3 frequency combination that makes this thing sing, then this is the only way you are going to find it. Also, stay with the 3 FETs and 3 coils the same as Otto's, then you'll be comparing apples with apples.

SM mentioned the use of expensive lab instrumentation to analyse and perhaps detect the overunity he talked about so much involving the piece of wire. This has always troubled me because he mentions that it is so simple and we should start with this in our research, yet we may never be able to detect the effect it supposedly achieves, especially when we are not certain what exactly the effect is we are looking for, i.e. the "kick".

Darren

MeggerMan

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #472 on: June 20, 2007, 02:40:52 PM »
Some high voltage mosfets for people to consider as the IRF840 devices are becoming obsolete:

STB21NM50N
550V - 0.19R
18A
rise/fall 18/30ns

STF12NM50N
500V - 0.29R
11A
rise/fall 15/14ns

STB20NK50Z
500V -0.23R
17A
rise/fall 20/15ns

STP25NM50N
500V - 0.11R
22A
rise/fall 23/22ns

Rob

ronotte

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #473 on: June 20, 2007, 04:17:05 PM »
@Rob,

I'm testing with good results the much more reliable (and cheap) IRFP460: 5ooV, 20A, Trise=59nanosec.

Roberto

bob.rennips

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #474 on: June 20, 2007, 04:24:44 PM »
Darren:

I totally agree with your analysis, especially the need for synchronization of the harmonics or at least some precision control of the wired OR common path. Did SM not say that there is a requirement of quality engineering equipment to be able to perform enginerring analysis? Maybe I mis-read that but I somehow remmebered the need for good tools.

Regards
chrisC


Chris,

Yes precision frequency adjustment would be necessary I would think. This is why I'm not sure using DIP switches for frequency selection (if I read that correctly) will be useful for capturing the desired frequency. It sounded like Roberto and Jason are going that route.

Please note that my last posted representation of the circuit, is merely that. It was not intended as a circuit to build. I was trying to illustrate how the primaries are being switched, and to make it easier to visualize what happens with different input scenarios.

One could build this circuit, and it would work, but it won't be the same as the original. I recommend everyone build a divider and drive it with a single (quality) oscillator with fine frequency adjustment. If there is a 3 frequency combination that makes this thing sing, then this is the only way you are going to find it. Also, stay with the 3 FETs and 3 coils the same as Otto's, then you'll be comparing apples with apples.

SM mentioned the use of expensive lab instrumentation to analyse and perhaps detect the overunity he talked about so much involving the piece of wire. This has always troubled me because he mentions that it is so simple and we should start with this in our research, yet we may never be able to detect the effect it supposedly achieves, especially when we are not certain what exactly the effect is we are looking for, i.e. the "kick".

Darren

I suspect he's talking about a real time spectrum analyser. Darren, I'm sure you are aware of what these do but  for those that don't.... basically a digital spectrum analyser does an FFT of the incoming wave. The result is a moving bar graph where each bar represent a particular frequency and the bar  height the amplitude of that frequency. This is exactly like the animated graphic equiliser display on your hifi where the bars bouce up and down. Low down notes appear on the left, higher notes on the right. Except in a high end spectrum analyser these can go into the gigahertz range.

This is particularly useful in examining say an output signal, such as from Otto's device. You could start to observe patterns where the larger frequencies cluster. Then you could adjust your input to enhance those frequencies etc. etc.

ronotte

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #475 on: June 20, 2007, 04:39:40 PM »
High all,

please look at Otto's mixer: what is implemented is not OR but rather a sort of 'WIRED AND'.

Have you asked yourselves what happen when for example the lower freq oscillator is in it's 1 level? Well the connected Mosfet's Drain is locked to zero level so locking the same for all the others!! (no matter what they are doing).

In my opinion what it's happening is a rather complex process that's changing continuously as the input freq are asynchronous. Really not easy to understand and in a certain way not deterministic. The output that I see is composed by bursts of freq that suddenly clear and resolve to a fixed & stable condition that you see immediately as the scope trigger is at the end synchronizing something stable!

Lot is left to be understood.

regards to all

Roberto

MeggerMan

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #476 on: June 20, 2007, 04:43:36 PM »
Hi Roberto,
Hmm:
IRFP460PBF
500V - 0.27R
20A
rise/fall 59/58ns

Price in Newark is about  3.27USD
Price in UK is a about 8.00 GBP.

Slow and not cheap.

Rob

ronotte

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #477 on: June 20, 2007, 04:49:40 PM »
@Rob,

I pajed them 1 Euro/each !!
THEY seem to do the job...I'll tell you more.

Roberto

EMdevices

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #478 on: June 20, 2007, 05:15:12 PM »
Have you guys noticed what WaveWatcher said:

Quote
One thing ran into another and I tied the pulse from one coil to another with some LC (no, not big enough mFd to hold a shock) to phase it so it is useful and next thing I know I have two small hacked RS transformers with PM inserted linked as one howling, audibly,  about 300hZ with no signal applied.

Note:   "RS" stands for RadioShack, I believe, "PM" for Permanent Magnet, and "LC"  for Inductor and Capacitor (to make a resonant tank and also change the phase a bit so it adds in feedback)

EM

gn0stik

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #479 on: June 20, 2007, 05:25:52 PM »
wavewatcher, can we get some clarification on this? perhaps a diagram?

Regards,
Rich