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Author Topic: Successful TPU-ECD replication !  (Read 1146578 times)

MeggerMan

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #360 on: June 17, 2007, 11:59:06 AM »
Hi Chrisc,
You may want to look at the TL494, it has duty cycle control (45% to 0%) and the output I think is about 200mA so you can drive the mosfet directly.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl494.pdf
Some of the newer PWM controllers have a true drive(push-pull) output and are even better.
I have had the TL494 running up to 700KHz.
Or you can build a DDS 20 kit from ELV in Germany, cost about 60 euros plus you need an AD811 op amp if you want the sine wave output.
http://shop.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325
The duty can be controlled by an external op amp connected to the sine wave output.
The good thing with the DDS 20 is it has a good clear display of the freqency and has a sweep mode too.
But for simple, cheap and chearful, the TL494 would be a good bet.

Hi Wavewatcher,
Some useful info you have there. Can you find out the number of  turns we need to get resonance at 35KHz?
I have some LMR400 cable that I could use for the mobius loop.
What about using microbore pipe, say 8mm or 10mm?
Easy to bend to shape.

Hi All,
I did the first experiment that Otto/Roberto has shown in their PDF report.
I could not see any peaks with different lengths of solder wire.
The pk-pk increased as the wire got shorter.
Going from:
100cm of 1.2mm solder wire, 5V input at 1.9 amp pulsed at 7.6KHz (best amplitude) pk-pk of 27V
down to
5cm, 5V, 1.96amp, 7.6KHz, pk-pk 34V.
Coil was 50 turns of 0.56mm enameled copper wire.

It showed a linear increase for the shorter wire.

It made no difference if the wire was inside the coil or not. 
I must be doing something wrong.

Rob




z_p_e

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #361 on: June 17, 2007, 03:36:39 PM »
Thanks Rob for the TL494 info, and the heads-up on the DDS board.

I've emailed ELV to see if they have an English version of the info pdf and if they'd ship to Canada. This one looks very promising.

Darren

Hoppy

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #362 on: June 17, 2007, 04:01:12 PM »
The SG3525 is a another PWM chip. This one has totem-pole output and an anboard regulated 5V supply. I've used these in several applications and I prefer them to the TL494.

Datasheet at: -
http://www.chipcatalog.com/Datasheet/372D30FBF5AC679BCC1E8BCA3B07EC4C.htm


giantkiller

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #363 on: June 17, 2007, 04:28:55 PM »
Thanks Rob for the TL494 info, and the heads-up on the DDS board.

I've emailed ELV to see if they have an English version of the info pdf and if they'd ship to Canada. This one looks very promising.

Darren

Yeh, this is definately a hook. I'd buy 3 right off the bat simply to get 20mhz @ below 150USD ea. for small form factor and portabililty. The output would be to spec and very tight. Very professional.

--giantkiller.

giantleap

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #364 on: June 17, 2007, 04:31:45 PM »
I think this is a good time to remind people of something SM said.

"I ask you, what are these guys thinking about when they let their
ego's force them to ignore things i have said in the beginning and go off
trying to design and develop their own control devices using SS units.
SS units which are OUTBOARD of the collector ring i might add?
Some of them have gotten results and some of them have gotten big
power surges and dissipation of heat... all of which is wonderful and
certainly proves the point that there is truly something going on here.
BUT, i guarantee you that their SS control devices are all sitting right
beside the collector... aren't they?

They will probably never start the coil and get to catalyst.
I am not saying it is impossible, but it will Damn difficult for these guys to
get more then a big bang once in a while.
And just like me, that big bang will excite them enough to continue for a
while longer.
Maybe one of them will read back and see where I said the SS control
device must be placed inside the collector coil.
then they will explode with, MY GOD, maybe that is the reason why......
and off they will go. in the right direction at least.


God Bless
Tim.

giantleap

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #365 on: June 17, 2007, 04:35:08 PM »
In relation to my previous post, think in the eye of the hurricain!

God Bless
Tim.

chrisC

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #366 on: June 17, 2007, 05:26:13 PM »
@Rob & @Hoppy:
Thanks again for the chip references. Yes, I did try to find a distributor who carries the DDS board in the US but without success. It's not that expensive but adds up when you need 3! Other thing I'm not sure if it still needed an output buffer to get the critical rise times? And also whether it had the logic to vary duty cycle?

cheers
chrisC

Hoppy

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #367 on: June 17, 2007, 05:34:05 PM »
I think this is a good time to remind people of something SM said.

"I ask you, what are these guys thinking about when they let their
ego's force them to ignore things i have said in the beginning and go off
trying to design and develop their own control devices using SS units.
SS units which are OUTBOARD of the collector ring i might add?
Some of them have gotten results and some of them have gotten big
power surges and dissipation of heat... all of which is wonderful and
certainly proves the point that there is truly something going on here.
BUT, i guarantee you that their SS control devices are all sitting right
beside the collector... aren't they?

They will probably never start the coil and get to catalyst.
I am not saying it is impossible, but it will Damn difficult for these guys to
get more then a big bang once in a while.
And just like me, that big bang will excite them enough to continue for a
while longer.
Maybe one of them will read back and see where I said the SS control
device must be placed inside the collector coil.
then they will explode with, MY GOD, maybe that is the reason why......
and off they will go. in the right direction at least.


God Bless
Tim.


OK good point Tim. Otto, Roberto and all who have so far tested, did you place your control circuitry inside the loop when you took the data published?

MeggerMan

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #368 on: June 17, 2007, 07:31:46 PM »
@ZPE,
I am translating the German DDS 20 manual at the moment and plan to send a copy to ELV. Most of it done, just not the theory about the sine wave details.

@Giantleap,
Yes, I know about that and that is a problem, but the best we can do is to put the mosfet driver and mosfet inside the TPU and shield the rest.  The DDS 20 has a metal can shield around all of the high frequency circuitry.

@Chrisc,
The TL494 would benefit from an external mosfet driver at frequencies over 300KHz as it is only really meant to operate up to 300KHz.
The TL494 has the ability to vary the duty, but the DDS 20 will need an external op-amp connected to the sine wave output.

@Hoppy,
Yep, there are loads of other PWM chips. 
I also have the UC28025 (bought for my MEG project - JLNs MEG reproduction) that is good to 1MHz and 1.5A direct drive output.
(I'll take your 200mA @ 500KHz  and raise it to 1500mA @ 1MHz!)
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/uc28025.pdf

Regards
Rob

Bruce_TPU

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #369 on: June 17, 2007, 08:09:32 PM »
@ giantleap

Otto had his mosfets and drivers in the center and on an aluminum heat sink.  Watching Cam's lab, it did not look like he had anything in the center.  As for Jason, I do no know.

Cheers and God bless,
Bruce  (P.S.  Good quote... LOL)  ;)

gn0stik

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #370 on: June 17, 2007, 08:29:07 PM »
Hey Rich:

Are your max380 generators made from discreets or are they part of a complete instrument package (make /model)? Just curious. Trying to find a good, cheap function genertor I don't have to pay an arm/leg for.

Thanks
chrisC

Chris, I found them on ebay, and called the number for the company on thier auction ad.

I got 3 for 90 bucks a piece plus shipping. I think it all came out to be 280 bucks.

I have to be clear. Although they are based off the max038, they don't go all the way up to 20mhz. Maximum is 2Mhz. I popped it open to see if I could adjust it somehow to allow the higher frequencies, but couldn't figure it out as the manual did not come with a schematic as devices like this sometiems do.

LDWebtronics is the seller, and their phone number is 1-800-370-2197

wattsup

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #371 on: June 17, 2007, 09:39:02 PM »
@ A few questions on the build.

1) Can anyone show a close-up picture of the mosfets with their connections, or draw a vulgarized diagram of the connections showing which terminals (left, center, right) go where, not in an electronic circuit form but of a visual form, just to make sure everyone is doing the same thing, including and especially me and others who may chose to make this replication. My components are the IRF730 and the IRF840.

2) My rings are made and I have been looking for days for a suitable plastic core to wind the CCs but have not found anything yet.(2 hours again today of running around) Does anyone have any practical ideas. Does anyone know the internal diameter of Otto coils. I want the internal diameter and length to be as close as Otto in order to ensure that the ring is located at the same internal position and the coil has the same depth of winding as I feel this will have a major impact on replicating the performance.

3) Can anyone show a vulgarized diagram of a complete set-up starting at the frequency generator, power supply, make, model and go through the complete circuits, etc. The replication of the frequencies and pulses are critical to replicate this design. Do we need the original equipment settings to replicate this or just supply the frequency (without regard to any amplitude, etc. is ok).

4) Ottos rings are connected directly together inside the rings, while Ronottes' last diagram shows the wires leading out of the rings to a terminal in order to do the connections which is obviously much more convenient for future alterations to the design. but the question is would these extended wires going to and comming from the terminal change the dynamic function of the rings.

You guys, I think someone will have to open some new Otto threads such as;
- Otto's TPU Testing results (one thread per builder/tester)
- Otto's TPU Testing summary (one person can keep track of all tests from all builders, here).
- Otto's TPU theories and comparatives
- Otto's TPU alternative mosfets, drivers and other electronic components
- Otto's TPU alternative overall designs

and keep this thread for building the device. There is getting to be too much other information here that is not directly relevent to building the replication, regardlles of how you personally feel about the device or the many changes we all could make on the design, this thread was supposed to deal with the building OF THIS DESIGN.

Please keep to topic on this thread and make any new thread you feel is required to discuss these other points. Look, this is not to say your discussions are not of interest, but for practical purposes, it would be preferable to discuss such things elsewhere. We all probably have over 100 pages of unposted theories and what we personally feel to be very pertinent observations of both SM's and others designs, including your own works, but this thread is for building and if everyone respects this and moves to newer threads, we could all breath a little better plus the information will be held in more retrievable and pertinent venues.

@cOmster

You may consider opening your own thread and put all your info there so it does not get lost in all these pages.
You could then add to it any other tesing data, you devellop, etc.


c0mster

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #372 on: June 17, 2007, 10:16:47 PM »
OL
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 10:02:50 PM by c0mster »

turbo

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #373 on: June 17, 2007, 10:54:42 PM »
Nice vid Cam :)
Thanks

Marco.

z_p_e

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #374 on: June 18, 2007, 12:46:45 AM »
Thanks for the video Cam.

Nice piece of music at the end....what was it?

Sounded a bit like a requiem..sorry, couldn't resist.  :D

Darren