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Author Topic: Successful TPU-ECD replication !  (Read 965572 times)

Offline bob.rennips

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #105 on: June 13, 2007, 03:04:25 PM »


I would have expected a 3 level staircase with the same amplitude for the input square waves. 1 high, 2 and 3 in the middle, and 1 low. I checked the output from the mosfet drivers and the square waves from the drivers are the same amplitude...



Strange, how did you mix these 2 waveforms ?
Added them up via resistors or how ?

As per my original email - 2 parallel wound coils for the inputs - these two coils were wound over a single coil, which is the output.

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #105 on: June 13, 2007, 03:04:25 PM »

Offline c0mster

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #106 on: June 13, 2007, 04:05:02 PM »
Time to fire up and test this unit off the grid.

Offline otto

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #107 on: June 13, 2007, 04:10:30 PM »
Hello all,

@Darren,

a little from our theory is in the pdf. I have my theory but this is not for public because its totally....

Im only a little coil winder, nothing more. I hate theories. Better theorists, will one day say us all whats going on in a TPU.

When all the jobs arround a TPU is finished then somebody can wright all the explanations.

Otto

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #107 on: June 13, 2007, 04:10:30 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #108 on: June 13, 2007, 04:24:48 PM »
Time to fire up and test this unit off the grid.


Let it go c0mster ! ;)

Very exited to see your progress !

Come on, just let us know ! ;)


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #109 on: June 13, 2007, 04:59:04 PM »
is this how the outputs of the 7307 are wired, as ottos symbols are a little off.
and having never used mosfets , and having only just enough i dont want to destroy
them. i understand the gates are joined its just the other pins i was curious about.


Hello Louis,

From the data sheet of IRF7307, you can see the drains of both the n-  and p-channel MOSFETs are double pins (probably due to increase the heat sink area of the drains).  See link to data sheet: http://www.radiobox.ru/pdf/IRF7307.PDF

However, if I were to use the IRF7307 as a driver, I would use the p-channel FET of the IRF7307 in the place of the upper switch where just the n-channel FET is shown in Roberto + Otto's schematics here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2383.0.html  ( otto_ronette_TPU_ECD-V1_0.pdf )  Diagram 8, page 29  and I would use the n-channel FET of the IRF7307 in the place of the lower switch where the p-channel FET is shown in Diagram 8.   You may ask why?

I think if the n-channel FET is the upper switch, there will be negative feedback against a rapid switch-on of the IRFP FET because when the gate-source capacitor of the IRFP starts charging through the switched-on n-channel driver of 7307, the increasing capacitor voltage between the IRFP's gate-source will work against the input gate switching pulse you input at Pins 2 & 4 of the 7307. This way the rapid switch-on of the IRFP FET may suffer.

In case the p-channel FET is the upper switch in the 7307, the gate-source capacitor of the IRFP starts charging through the drain of the p-channel switch (from the +8 to +12V supply) so that the increasing capacitor voltage is not able to influence the input pulse's switching effect you input at Pins 2 & 4 of the 7307.

I hope this is not so complicated as it may sound first and you understand the switching process. To fully ensure the correct switch-on and switch-off of the IRFP MOSFET, the amplitude of the input pulse you connect to the common gate pins 2 & 4 of the 7307 must be nearly the same or the same  as the amplitude of the positive supply voltage of the 7307 driver itself.  
for instance if you use +12V power supply to operate the 7307, then your pulse oscillator should output a minimum of +11V pulse to feed the connected gates in the 7307 with respect to the common negative points (your ground symbol).  
You indicated in your attached drawing a +3V supply voltage to the 7307: this is not enough to safely switch on the IRFP FET!!!  Because this FET has a threshold gate voltage of +4 or +5V with respect to its source and the +3V cannot switch it on!!!  

I attached a drawing of the pin connections of the IRF7307 as I think is correct in every respect.  I hope Roberto and others here will comment it, either pro or contra.

Regards
Gyula

EDIT: I just realised your drawing basically includes my drawing so your pin connections are correct. Sorry for noticing this only after posting my drawing.

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #109 on: June 13, 2007, 04:59:04 PM »
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Offline mrd10

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2007, 05:03:33 PM »
Stefan, it took me no time to wrap the coil, man build it , it will take you no time, then we can have you in there to with your own results, i think this thread is going to have one of the most replications in it...very soon.

common Stefan go for it man.......................



Dom

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2007, 05:08:07 PM »
Why  are you using these expensive driver FETs ?

Why not just control the IRF 840 ?s gate with a parallel circuit
of 3 or 4 schmitttrigger hex inverter ICs like
MM74C14 Hex Schmitt Trigger  ?

Here is a PDF File.

Just put at least 2 or 3 of them parallel and there you go.
Should have enough punch to hit the IRF 840 gate fully open !

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74C14.pdf

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2007, 05:08:07 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2007, 05:10:05 PM »
Stefan, it took me no time to wrap the coil, man build it , it will take you no time, then we can have you in there to with your own results, i think this thread is going to have one of the most replications in it...very soon.

common Stefan go for it man.......................



Dom

In about 2 weeks I have time to do it.
Am in a hurry now.
C0mster let the videos come in.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline ronotte

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #113 on: June 13, 2007, 05:15:07 PM »
@Gyulasun,

please paj attention, the schematic posted in my doc TPU=ECD is TESTED on my ECD. Anyway I've just followed the configuration suggested by the constructor of IRF7307 8International Rectifier) that you find attached, please look at fig 9. Using that approach I could use a wide range of posibilities (including the NE555) as input signal.

In my opinion the very low output impedance showed by said 7307 config is just what needed to correctly drive the power MOSFET properly charging his input capacitance augmented by the Miller effect. That's just what needed to drive the MOSFET into avalanche mode - fundamental.

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #113 on: June 13, 2007, 05:15:07 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #114 on: June 13, 2007, 05:19:57 PM »
Why  are you using these expensive driver FETs ?

Why not just control the IRF 840 ?s gate with a parallel circuit
of 3 or 4 schmitttrigger hex inverter ICs like
MM74C14 Hex Schmitt Trigger  ?

Here is a PDF File.

Just put at least 2 or 3 of them parallel and there you go.
Should have enough punch to hit the IRF 840 gate fully open !

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74C14.pdf

Hi Stefan,

Yes, basically I agree with you (though I would use a dedicated MOSFET driver IC if the switching speed is an issue in the TPU)  but I wanted to answer Louis's  questions.  

Once He wishes to adhere to Roberto+Otto circuit schematics then naturally follows the components too.

Regards
Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2007, 05:43:55 PM »
@Gyulasun,

please paj attention, the schematic posted in my doc TPU=ECD is TESTED on my ECD. Anyway I've just followed the configuration suggested by the constructor of IRF7307 8International Rectifier) that you find attached, please look at fig 9. Using that approach I could use a wide range of posibilities (including the NE555) as input signal.

In my opinion the very low output impedance showed by said 7307 config is just what needed to correctly drive the power MOSFET properly charging his input capacitance augmented by the Miller effect. That's just what needed to drive the MOSFET into avalanche mode - fundamental.

Hi Roberto,

Thank you very much for showing  Fig. 9 in your attachment.

Because it shows the gates of the 7307 are tied up to +12V via the 1kOhm resistor and this already justifies for me a correct control of the driver as shown!  Now that you showed this, I fully accept now this driver connection too. 

Best Regards
Gyula





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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2007, 05:43:55 PM »
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Offline chrisC

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #116 on: June 13, 2007, 05:54:39 PM »
Darren:

I too love to understand the 'theory' behind Otto's TPU. At the moment there are many conjectures, bits and pieces may be true but I seriously doubt anyone for sure understands this completely. Even SM didn't know why the unit ceased working when flipped upside down.

All of us are seeing effects not obvious to common understanding. It's just like driving. Do you need to know every aspect of car mechanics to enjoy the benefits of driving?

I can tell you this much. If you read the little of Otto's theory explanation in his disclosure and still needed absolute proof, you will not believe his unwritten theory. Even Einstein hasn't gone there!

Well, maybe you really should just spend $18 and 1 hour of your time and answer all the questions and then get totally excited to help us or disprove this project? I also love to disprove this myself but the dice is rolling the other way!

Cheers

chrisC

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #117 on: June 13, 2007, 06:23:06 PM »
To make a start with the theory behind the tpu, I think I have a pretty clear picture of what the source of the kicks is....
Of couse this is just my view on things, based on information provided by dave Lowrance and the c c c p group. See: magnetism.fateback.com/overunity.htm
 
Seeing the kicks shown on Otto and Roberto's test have the exact NMR ring of the copper atom's nucleus, it is pretty clear that the kick the (lagged) turning of the nucleus. The copper atoms nucleus has a magnetic hook and therfore its movement can be manipulated. (which is done by the fast rising leading edge of the pulsing).
When this nucleus is starting to turn it also moves the electrons in its electron cloud (through magnetic coupling in the atom)
This moving of the electrons is the free "kick" SM is talking about. The free energy is in there because it costs far less energy to create the kick then what you get back from the ringing of the nucleus, especially when you consider you get another kick when the control pulse switches off..... 

Hope this a start to a better understanding of what is going on inside the tpu/ecd

Regards

Robert

Offline z_p_e

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2007, 06:28:01 PM »
Darren:

All of us are seeing effects not obvious to common understanding. It's just like driving. Do you need to know every aspect of car mechanics to enjoy the benefits of driving?

I can tell you this much. If you read the little of Otto's theory explanation in his disclosure and still needed absolute proof, you will not believe his unwritten theory. Even Einstein hasn't gone there!

Well, maybe you really should just spend $18 and 1 hour of your time and answer all the questions and then get totally excited to help us or disprove this project? I also love to disprove this myself but the dice is rolling the other way!

Cheers

chrisC


Chris, your enthusiasm is admirable.

However, I have been experimenting, building, and designing for a long time, and also seen "wolf" cried far more times than I care to remember. So perhaps you can appreciate my skeptecism and objectivity.

So far in the posted results, I have not seen anything that can not be explained with conventional theories. I have also not seen measured results that could be described as conclusive nor flawless.

I will not spend the time building this because I do not believe it works according to the claims being made. Insufficient and unrelible data is all that has been presented thus far and that won't convince me it is worthwhile to build it. I have other projects going, including the SM-TPU.

Surely Otto and Roberto must have a theory of how the device operates, or at least what effect they were trying to achieve by their configuration? They must also know if and how a RMF is created, a turbine effect exists, what the kicks are and how they manifest etc. etc.

I am sure SM knows very well how to achieve the effect, and what it is, even though he may not be positive where the energy is coming from. I would expect Otto and Roberto to be aware of these things too with their device, and to help all replicators and non-replicators understand what is being built, and how it should operate and perform, a brief description of the circuit and what is trying to be achieved is what I had in mind. I didn't see that in the pdf that was released.

Darren

Offline Super God

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Re: Successful TPU-ECD replication !
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2007, 06:28:37 PM »
Now this is pretty sweet.  Once I get the parts ordered, which should be about a week, I'm going to start my own replication of otto's replication of the tpu.  What a mouthful.  Just need to whiddle up a frequency generator, should'nt be too hard, I'm not looking for anything fancy anyways.  Once I get my new multimeter too, that'll help with this, right now all I've got is a cheap-o analog meter and 3 spools of 18 gauge magnet wire for a turntable motor.  I can at least get the basic circuit done!

Have a great day.

 

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